The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
Parenting Higher-Needs Kids With Calm, Skills, And Heart. Interview with Melissa Schulz
It's the first proper episode of 2026!!
This week I am over the moon to be joined by Melissa Schulz as we discuss parenting higher-needs kids.
Melissa Schulz, MS, BCBA, is a parenting coach and behavior analyst with a Master’s in Psychology and is one of those people that you just make time for to listen to when they are willing to share their expertise :)
We discuss many things including;
The difference between parenting neurodiverse/shy/strongwilled kids and "normal" children. (Note the Air quotes!)
How YOUR triggers should not be your child's problem, and how to manage them.
Why parenting always, absolutely always, starts with the parent. (Sounds obvious, doesn't it?)
How different parenting styles are sometimes needed for different kids, and even the same child at a different age.
And much, much more.
It's definitely worth checking out!
You can find Melissa everywhere online;
Her website (where you can download the e-book she mentioned)
Just a reminder that HPNB only has 5 billing cycles!
So this means that you not only get 3 months FREE access, no obligation!
BUT, if you decide you want to do the rest of the program, after only 5 months of paying $10/£8 a month you now get FREE LIFE TIME ACCESS!
This means you can sign up after your first child, use the program and recover and then still have access after giving birth to child 2 and 3!
None of this "pay X amount a year" nonsense, once you've paid..you've paid!
This makes HPNB not just the most efficient and complete post-partum recovery program, it's also BY FAR the best value.
Remember to follow us on Instagram and Facebook for the competitions, wisdom and cute videos. And, of course, you can always find us on our YouTube channel if you like your podcast in video form :)
Visit healthypostnatalbody.com and get 3 months completely FREE access. No sales, no commitment, no BS.
Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have any questions or comments
If you could rate the podcast on your favourite platform (especially Apple) that would be a big help.
Playing us out "We go" by Isaac Joel
Hey, welcome to the Hellfree Post Nature Body Podcast of your Post Nature. As always. This is a podcast for the eleventh of January 2026. And believe it or not, yes indeed. That took me five attempts to go now, right? So happy new year. So you know this. I'm talking to Melissa Schultz this week. Uh she's a parenting coach, but she's much, much, much, much more than that. Um she works with uh kids with uh severe behavioral challenges and uh you know uh uh neurodivergent kids, strong-willed, highly sensitive kids, and basically that need a bit more support and parents that need a bit more support. Um Melissa has a master's in psychology and she's a board certificates behavior analyst. And and you know, I know I've covered this subject before, but when someone like Melissa is willing to come on to the podcast, I immediately make space. I absolutely love this conversation. We're talking we're hitting this from all angles. We're talking all types of kids, all age groups, what works, what doesn't work, uh how to approach these things, how to preserve your sanity as you do so, and all that type of stuff. You're gonna love this conversation. So without further ado, here we go. What's the difference between parenting neurodiverse or strong-willed and sensitive kids and neurotypical kids?
SPEAKER_01:That is a wonderful question. I mean, I think a child can be uh neurodiverse, and I'm gonna throw out a quick definition because some people might not have heard that word before. So if I'm saying neurotypical, I'm just talking about people whose brains function and process information in a typical way. And this is a podcast, so you guys can't see me, but I always have to do air quotes when I say typical or normal, because I don't know. I don't think I'm super normal. Anyway, but uh neuro neurodiversity is talking about different conditions where an individual just processes information in a different way, processes the world differently. So this includes diagnoses like autism, the autism spectrum, uh ADHD, dyslexia. Um, there's a whole list of different um diagnoses that kind of fall in that neurodiverse category. And so here's what I have found. When you have more of a typical kid, and I did do air quotes again, guys, um probably whatever parenting style that you want to use, that your parents used, it is working. There, there's not a ton of problems. You're kind of able to parent the way that you wanted to, and that usually works most of the time. When you have a kid, I tend to call this group my high needs kids, strong-willed, sensitive, neurodiverse, these kids don't respond to the typical parenting strategies. And probably however you were raised or how you're more comfortable parenting is not going to be the best fit for your kid because these types of kids need a very specific way of being parented, way of being taught, way of being disciplined. And it's usually not what the typical uh parenting, you know, things, books, whatever will say. And so that's why these kids can um I call high needs because sometimes they just need more, and they tend to have a lot more behavior challenges just because they do experience the world a little bit differently than maybe we do. And they're wonderful kids, they're my favorite kids, but they just need a little bit more support and understanding and just a much more individualized way of responding to challenging behaviors.
Peter:Right, cool. So that is the because it's interesting because whenever um I was I was told the uh you know the um uh just do what your parents did, but try to do it a little bit better, right? I I don't think my parents had a clue what they were doing, right? Because I don't think, and that's gonna and and and again for anybody listening to this for the first time, I'm just a middle-aged white guy, right? I'm just I'm 50-year-old, I'm from the little, I was raised in a certain way, is what I mean by 50-year-old white guy. That was there were no parenting books out there when I was for for my parents. So if I copied their behavior, let's just say it'd be problematic.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I uh I think I mean all of our parents were doing the very best they could. We're doing the very best we can. There's just I kind of think of it as like uh a tool belt. So I imagine myself wearing a tool belt, although I think I've ever worn one in real life, but imaginary. I'm wearing a tool belt, and basically the parenting tool belt we come with is is pretty much whatever our parents did, right? That was what was modeled to us for 18-ish years of our life. And so that's kind of what we know. And sometimes our parents came with a lot of tools, sometimes they didn't. They were doing their best, now you're doing your best. But if you're finding that the tools that you have in your tool belt aren't working for your kids or for one of your kids, that doesn't mean that you're a bad parent. It does not mean you're there's something terribly wrong with your kid and it's just gonna be terrible behavior forever. It just means you need to go get more tools that are going to be the right fit for that kit. And I have three kids myself. I have to two of my kids are neurodiverse, they all need a very different parenting style. None of none of it's really the way I wanted to parent, you know, my ideal parenting style. So it's more about figuring out what they need and how can I give them what they each individually need, which of course is like all opposite.
Peter:Of course. And that brings us, I think, neatly to to it it would be the logical question. At what age do we start noticing the difference between what we think works, what should work, whether because a lot of the time for sp and again, mainly for people my generation, I know most people listening to this are younger. Kids that didn't learn as well as per the standard teaching methods used to just be called slow. And that and we now know that is not the case, but they might seem a bit slower on the uptake when they're two, three, four years old. And you're trying to explain to so at what stage do you think this is when you notice it and this is when you need to maybe change your approach?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think uh in a lot of ways it depends. Like if a child does have a more significant disability, you're gonna might notice that earlier. The more you're around typical kids, maybe the more you'll notice a discrepancy. For most of the type of kids that I support with just more behavior challenges, usually parents start noticing around two or three that what they're doing isn't working for their child, and their child's behaviors are maybe more than what their friends are or the play date is or their family expects, and they notice a disconnect. And like sadly, I think a lot of parents first jump to this is my fault.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not a good mom. I've done something wrong. And um, but usually it's not that, it's just means they just need a little bit more, they need a little bit more specialized. Um, and the and the faster you you understand them and you know what they need and you know how to respond to those behaviors, the the better behavior they're gonna have forever. So it is um, I know a lot of parents are like, oh, well, this is just two. Oh no, this is just three, they'll grow out of it. Oh no, it'll be four, they'll grow out of it. And they kind of like just keep doing what they're doing and hoping that their child's gonna change so that their default parenting style will start working for their child. But unfortunately, that's like not a thing. That's kind of a myth, right? Like we our child's not gonna change until we change what we're doing. They might get bigger, but they're still gonna have those same behavior issues. It might just look a little different, but not in a way that you'll like.
Peter:Yeah, no, exactly, because one of my um one of my clients, my face-to-face clients, um, and I've known their kids for ages, but they only realized that their son, he's 15 now, um had difficulty learning in the in the let's say the air quote again normal manner um during lockdown. Right? So in 2020. That is when it kind of came out when he was sitting at the tables, he was 10 at the time, and I was there at the time, that was part of the same bubble. Um and everybody might have seen that video of of the young boy who gets asked the math question three times five, what is the answer? And the parents have to tell him it's 15, and the guy and the boy still says 16 because he just gets it, he zomed out and he gets it. Yeah, but this kid was exactly the same. I'm not even kidding. He he knew maths, but not if you put a piece of paper in front of him and say what's the answer to this particular question. So then afterwards, they during long they started working with Zoom tutors, and they just say, Oh yeah, your kid just needs to be taught differently. Uh-huh. But when you're 10, 11, 12 years old, you've already had eight years in the education system. So that's quite late to that's quite late to to pick it up.
unknown:Yeah.
Peter:Um, so you would recommend having an air quote, and maybe it's too big a word, but an intervention before that stage.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, there's like overwhelming uh evidence research to support the sooner you get support, and it just it's logical, the sooner you figure out how your child's gonna learn, the better you can teach them that way. They don't get so behind. And I love like you're giving more of like the academic example, right? Like learning math, learning to read. I think in general, parents, if their child isn't getting it, they are more not always, but often more open to realizing, oh, they have a different way of learning. Like, I'll teach that to them. I'll teach them academics differently because they learn differently. But I think in general, in our culture, we have a harder time using that same uh framework for behavior, even though it is exactly the same. So for behavior more, we want to be like, no, just like they're being rude, just make them stop, just tell them to stop. Like, no, this is just work. Like, if we were like able to, oh no, they have dyslexia, they learn differently, like teach them to read this way. People are tend to be more open to that. But if you're like, no, no, no, they just have a very strong will, they have a really strong desire, which isn't bad. It's a great thing about their personality. But here's how you handle the tantrums and everything. People have a little bit harder time, but it really is the same. Learning behavior, learning how to tolerate no, learning to manage your emotions, those are skills you learn just like academic skills. Um, it just looks a little bit different because it's behavioral. And so for some reason, we often think about it differently.
Peter:Yeah, no, because the because you're you're bang on, because we don't mind anymore, right? Because we used to mind kids being academically having to learn different, needed to be a bit more time on the test. It was embarrassing for say folks of my parents' generation, right? That was a little bit more embarrassing, but behavioral issues is as in social skills and and all that type of stuff. That is a completely different, as in its viewed as a completely different beast. And and it's really interesting because yeah, we accept yeah, some kids are shy, some kids are a bit louder. That is pretty much the extent of what we're willing to accept, you know. Uh as what we class is normal. This one is an introvert, this one is an extrovert. Right. Um and I find that social skills, and again, this is maybe more my generation's environment, but social skills are not skills we teach.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and our typical kids are gonna pick up on social skills from their environment pretty automatically. Often these kind of kids, especially neurodiverse kids, it just needs to be taught to them more specifically. But I like um kind of to go back to what you were saying, uh, you made me think of like if we were to see a kid reading, maybe an older kid that was kind of struggling with some words, right? Someone walking by wouldn't have a lot of thoughts about that. They wouldn't go up to the parent and say, What are you doing wrong that your child can't read that word? Right. But if that same child was yelling or having a meltdown or just having a really hard time, that in our culture society today, everyone walking, that parents feeling the eyes and the judgment of every single person walking by. And there are bold people that will go up to that parent and say, Why how can you let them be doing this? Right? Having no idea what's going on with the child. And so I think there's also a lot more judgment for kids that learn behavior differently and parents that haven't yet discovered how to do that, and that makes it harder for people to also get help because they again they don't want to be seen seen as not a good parent, which makes sense. So who would not want to be a good parent? That's like our favorite job in the whole world.
Peter:We want to be oh, yeah, if your child is so well behaved, it's like one of the biggest compliments.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
Peter:Parents give us it to each other because kids are poorly behaved for their own parents, but they're nice to behave to Mrs. Jones around the corner, right? That is that is the way it works. Um, but but it's yeah, no, that's a that's a fascinating point. The the the social stigma surrounding all this type of stuff. So, what what sort of behavior are you picking up on that that kids have when they're two or three years old? Um that you see, because obviously, as an expert, you'll spot this out in the wild, so to speak, right? You'll you'll walk around in the same way. I walk around going, Oh, I can deal with that, that should be addressed, that type of thing. It's in I can work with that. Again, no judgment, but you still see it. Um what sort of behavior are you like? Oh, if you here are some of the some of the signs that you might want to look for.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the more it's and it's always hard too, because some of it's age appropriate, it kind of depends on how often it's happening and how intense. But if there are is aggression that's happening frequently, like that's definitely a red um flag. Uh, any kind of hitting, throwing stuff, like trying to um it's it's common for two and three girls to do it a little bit, but if it's more than that, um, they're just really easy ways you can handle it that just most people don't know about. Um, or just in general, like having a hard time, you know, having to do something they don't want to do or stop something they want to, like not getting their way, like that skill of kind of tolerating no, tolerating waiting. Those are hard skills that two and three-year-olds are learning and just starting to learn. And so some kids will be upset about it and then move on, and some kids are upset about it and they're upset about it and they're upset about it and they can't move on. So that's kind of a red flag, also that this child is just learning a little bit differently. Um, not bad, not hopeless, can still totally learn it. We just need um that's where I come in because I can tell you exactly how to help um that specific child learn that. And in general, just like emotional regulation, that's like the main job of kids, the the young ones, right? Learning how what this, what is this thing in my body, what this feeling, like I don't, it's not very comfortable, I don't like it. How what do I do with it? And um, so kids that tend to have really big feelings in general tend to have a harder time learning to control their feelings, which makes sense, right? Like I think of it as like a typical kid, their feelings might be the size of a match. So the feeling comes up, it's a little match, and then you just like blow it out. Okay, feelings done. The anger is gone, the sadness is gone. A child that has bigger feelings, which usually does come with strong-willed, really sensitive, or neurodiverse kids, their feelings like a campfire. So that the poor, you know, the kid didn't pick how big their feelings are. You didn't pick how big your kids' feelings are, but they're trying to just blow on their campfire and nothing's happening. So it is also, it's not just that they didn't kind of learn on its own, it's so much bigger. It is hard for them without more specific instruction and support to to know what to do with that big emotion.
Peter:Yeah, and that's that's a good point because we we usually see things like aggression and tantrums, that type of stuff as uh the only way for them to express their feelings because they can't express it with words yet, especially when they're two years old, right? No, totally a million different kinds of no, right? There just are, and as an adult, you can phrase that as a no because, but when you do, you there's a no and there's a throwing your toys out the prime, and that's pretty much all you've got. Right, yeah. Um, and that's why for a long time they used to be called the terrible twos, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
Peter:Um but how do you then teach parents with kids that are that young to teach their children actually okay, you know, you've got big feelings. This is and and you are only only two of them. How how how do we because like you said, feelings are feelings, feelings are what they are. We don't control our feelings, I don't control my feelings. No, no one no no adult you control your reaction to the feelings, right? As an adult, exactly. Um and more adults should learn that lesson as well, by the way. 100%. Right. You're you're you're responsible for your reaction, not so much when you're two or three though. So, how how do you teach that to someone that young?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I honestly I think a big part of it that I have found in my career is often we as adults, as kids, weren't taught how to how to handle our emotions in a healthy way. So often we were taught to like shove down those uncomfortable emotions, we didn't ignore it, talk yourself out of it, right? Like so many adults, and I'm 41, so I'm you know, I'm kind of there with you. Like yeah, the culture maybe was more like the toxic posity, like just be happy, don't think about it, right? Like, and that also, you know, now there's so much resources on why that is toxic. Um, but that taught, you know, a generation to just don't feel the bad things, only feel the happy things, which is actually not humanly possible and very detrimental for mental health. And so the message we're teaching our kids is like, yeah, it's however you feel is okay, all emotions are normal. There's a wide spectrum of emotions that human beings experience, and it's okay that that is in your body. But like you said, you get to decide how you behave and what you do with that emotion. Now, it's kind of a lie to tell that to two and three-year-olds because they can't really, like, they don't have like the mental construct to do it, but I still tell them that because I want them to believe that and to like try that and like exercise that little muscle of like self-control that's just developing. But so much of the work I do is actually helping parents be able to stay calm and regulated and take care of their own emotions in a really good way. Because two-year-olds are gonna tantrum. I my youngest is four right now, and we have lots of tantrums still, right? Um, the the goal is not to raise, you know, robot children that like shove emotions and disbehave. The goal is you have emotions and here's what you do with it. But when my four-year-old or you know, your two-year-old or whatever age, your 16-year-old will also have a tantrum, it just looks different. Um, when they're having a tantrum, if I, you know, am thinking stuff like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening, he shouldn't be doing this. I'm so embarrassed, I don't know what to do. What do I do? He needs to stop, I have to stop this. All of those thoughts are going to be very triggering. Like that sends a lot of parents into fight or flight where we actually feel like we're not safe. It's like like even they just our kid not putting their sock on, but we have this really big reaction because it's triggering that fight or flight response inside of us. And so where I always start with parents is really how can we regulate you as the adults so that I can. And I usually can after all my work on myself because my four-year-old's having a tantrum, I'm okay. Right? I don't love it. It's loud. But I know exactly how to handle it. I can make sure that my nervous system is calm and regulated. And especially when they're little, like the main thing they're doing is co-regulating with you.
Peter:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I like describe it as I have a lot of fire analogies and it's weird and I'm sorry. But here's another fire analogy. I um I like describe it as like, let's say you're walking down the road and there's like a little brush fire next to you. Okay. And so you're like, oh, that's weird. That's not right. But then you see a firefighter, your trusted expert, and he's right there. And the firefighter is like looking at his phone, chatting with his buddy, right? Like the expert is not concerned.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you're gonna keep going on your way, probably. You're not gonna change what you're doing, even though a weird thing has has happened.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But if the if you walk by and there's the same little brush fire and the firefighter is yelling into his radio, frantically trying to like cover it with dirt or something, right? Run in to get a hose, your behavior is gonna change because you're looking at the expert, and the expert has a very big the expert is sending all the signals that this is not safe. We have to do something, right? So I hope to think I would go in and help. Maybe I would run, but like I'm not gonna just keep walking calmly by. And this is what happens for our kids when they have feelings, right? So they have an uncomfortable emotion in their body that's kind of like that brush fire, like it's there, they don't like it. And then they look to us as their trusted adult. Just like, you know, when the little kids look at you when they fall and you help them decide if they're hurt or not, yeah. They're doing the same thing with their emotions. And so if they are having, you know, this epic tantrum because you gave them the blue cup when they asked for the blue cup, right? And then the parent is having excuse me, sorry, I'm just getting over. It's that time of year. Um, and then the parent is getting bigger feelings, feelings of anger, feelings of frustration. That's gonna send that signal to the kid that, like, this is a big deal and this brush fire, these feelings are not safe. And so that's gonna make the kid's behavior escalate. And so that's why there's like so much control we have over just controlling ourselves.
Peter:Yeah, no, and that is that is an awesome point. I I remember seeing this video of this guy um working in the garage, and he was and his he was he was filming video about bike repair or something like that. I'm fairly sure this wasn't stage before anybody comes at me going, All these videos are fake. But this was genuinely the guy video films something about bike repair, and his kid comes in in the middle of him filming the film, and it and he just said to his kid, not right now, kid, right? This is what we're doing, and and and then the um and then the child asks a couple more questions, right? I want banana one banana cake or banana bread or whatever. It was some sort of trivial thing that's important to children. Yeah, do you know what I mean? So when you're six years old, you need to ask that question, you need to ask it now.
SPEAKER_01:We need to know right now, right?
Peter:That that is just the way of the world, yes, it's their world, we just live in it. Um and as as he explained to the video, he went into this, and that's why I'm saying I'm fairly sure it wasn't stage. He explained that so he asked the kid to go away. I'm I'm filming in a very polite way in the child. Okay, I'll go away, I'll go do something else. Um, no big deal. He said, he said, that was my trigger. He said, I am seething inside now because she knows, or or he knew that I was recording here. Yeah, I was doing the thing. I had explicitly said, please don't bother daddy for the next half hour because I'm doing something. But he said, and and and as he explained it, my triggers are not his problem. Yes, right, it is for me to deal with my triggers because if I put that on my kids, then we're all in trouble.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like we can't even deal with our triggers. How are we gonna put that on these little people that don't even have a fully formed like brain or anything?
Peter:No, exactly, and and that was fascinating to me because again, 50-year-old white guy, my triggers are well, I I have done some work on myself, but usually you know what 50-year-old white guys are like. I mean, we've we've rule the world, right? And and we are let's just say we're not the most emotionally well-regulated people as as a group. We have yeah, we have issues that we don't work on because you know we run the world, therefore we'd have nothing to work on.
SPEAKER_02:You don't have to work on it, yeah.
Peter:Exactly. But when you're in charge, you get to do whatever you want because we're all sociopaths. But it's it is but but it is that idea. How how do you convey that to parents that yeah, you know, because especially and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing getting buy-in from buy-in from the mother for that process will be a little bit easier than from some dads.
SPEAKER_01:I think there was a little bit of a break in our connection.
Peter:I think we froze up a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that is okay. But I heard your question.
Peter:There you go.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I think I was talking with a client a little while ago. This is a story that's coming to mind, and basically she uh she was really triggered by her son in the back seat. I think he was just like wiggly and kind of and kicking her chair a lot when she was trying to drive. And this made her crazy because it's uncomfortable. She's trying to drive, you know, you could say it's not safe. And she asked him to stop and he kept doing it. And and so it felt like he was kind of doing it on purpose at that point. And so it was, you know, in a very gentle way, because we're all trying our best, but it was like kind of helping her be able to see that, like if he could stop, he would. Like most kids really do want to please us, they just might immediately forget what we said, like genuinely forget. Yeah, that's true. Um, or sometimes it's like so uncomfortable, especially if you do have maybe more of a wiggly kid or a sensory-seeking kid, he's feeling so uncomfortable trying to hold still that he can't even take it. And so someone in the car, unless we just move seats, which is what I told her to do, but unless we, you know, if if this is how we have to sit, someone in the car is gonna be uncomfortable. Either this little squirmy five-year-old or the grown adult. Right? The grown adult can be uncomfortable with some kicks, or the five-year-old can try to be comfortable holding still and his body needs to move. And so for me, that is an act of love I'm gonna give my kids. I'm I'm gonna be the one that's uncomfortable. Um, if it's something like that, like they're trying their best and they just can't, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna work on myself. I do a lot of work on myself so I can show up for my kids the way I want to. And I do have a squirmy kid with ADHD. So like I get it.
SPEAKER_02:You live the life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I live the life, but yeah, I don't want my discomfort to also become a burden on a kid who already is having a hard time because the world is not set up for how their brain works.
Peter:I see Dan, that's a wonderful, that's a wonderful way to put it because I think for a lot of us, and again, I'm I I use the us word a lot here. I'm not sure it applies, but it it is it is one of those things that we are taught that the next solution, that there is never a child that can't sit still, first of all. Yeah, right. That is what we are told, right? You sit still, it just means you haven't shouted loud enough at your child.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh.
Peter:Right. You have to turn around, shout at your child. Yeah. Right. That is that is because I really want you to do that. That's how we translate, usually, that's how we translate um non-compliance. I haven't been clear enough in my instructions. Or loud enough. Yeah. Yeah. No, not usually loud enough because fundamentally um I'm not English, but think of it as a British person going on holiday, right? British person goes to Italy. He expects everybody to speak Italian. Uh to everybody to speak English, right? Or understand English. The Brit on holiday just shows I need to point and I need to be louder. And that is that is how we we treat children in in the same way. Because we sometimes forget that we are the adults in the situation, and that means that we can change our behavior easier than kids rather than we are adults and we demand the respect that we are entitled to as adults.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like one like thing that blows my mind sometime to think about is like, let's say your kid is like really upset because you're not giving them a cookie. Okay, they are so upset because you're you're not doing what they want them to do. So they are just losing their mind, they're rolling on the floor, they're screaming, they're crying, they're throwing stuff, they're hitting, whatever, right? Now the parent gets very angry and triggered and then starts yelling because the child is doing this instead of just taking the note calmly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What's happening in that situation is both humans are having temper tantrums because the other person isn't doing what they want.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right? The kid, the dad's not giving the kid a cookie, the kid's not handling this well. They both don't know what to do with that, and they're both just expressing it in an age-appropriate but not healthy way. And so if we think about it like that, it's like, what am I teaching them when I am just yelling or getting mad or getting louder, right? I'm teaching them nothing. I'm teaching them, yeah, this is what you do when someone doesn't do what you want. Yeah, you yell, you get mad, you have a temper tantrum. Um, but then we're mad that they're having the temper tantrum that we accidentally taught them. And not that we they do actually get teaching, but we're we're not teaching them another way. We're just reinforcing that this is how you handle it when things don't go your way. Yeah, you have temper tantrum. Um and we're the adults, so we're allowed to yell, right? Whereas even though our prefrontal cortex is fully formed, we have all the decision-making rational capability, and our kid doesn't. Yeah, we think that we're allowed to, and somehow they're not.
Peter:It is very much the because I said so way of parenting, right? Um, and and it's it's fascinating because I just know that you know, I I have about 90% of all the people listening to this are are are women, 10% are men, right? And and that is just kind of what what what the split tends to be. Um, I just know that that little segment, if if I did the Joe Rogan thing and clipped out a little bit, which I don't, but that little segment would have every single woman turn to her husband and go, see. Do you know what I mean? Because it is very much how how we as again middle-aged men tend to run and and I'm not as woke as I might sound, but but it is it it is it is very much how we tend to respond to things, yeah. It is very much the the and and it's interesting that you say it's the the the the temper tantrum thing because that is kind of how it's how we were raised, and we never considered quite often. Yeah, we never consider before the baby is there, before a child is there, or even before we get into relationships or any of that stuff, that there might be a better way of managing stuff. Right. Um I think uh one of the one of the interesting things is that when when you talk about things like okay, neurodiverse kids and all that sort of stuff um need to be taught differently. But let's be honest, most neurotypical kids probably need to be taught differently as well compared to how I was raised.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean it's cool because if you teach all kids kind of like you teach neurodiverse kids, everyone will learn. Yeah, we're laughing, right? Yeah, but we still teach the way that only typical kids learn, just as a society, academically and behaviorally.
Peter:Yeah, very very much so, especially, yeah. It's because we all expect them to kind of just slot into the yeah in into the this is this is what happens. And it's interesting when you're talking about right. We we all when you're talking about temper tantrums and all that sort of stuff. I I I like to give the example because uh because I love it and because it really takes people off and and you know, engagement is everything, right? So I get a few emails when I say things like this. I like comparing raising kids to having dogs. I I'm I I really do, and it drives people nuts.
SPEAKER_01:I can already see the comments, yes.
Peter:You can already you see season, right? But when my I I have I have three dogs and they're all little terrier type dogs. When the mailman comes, they do their job, and that they shout at the mailman, right? Not at the mailman himself, they're not angry at the guy, but they're saying, Hey, we were asleep here. You woke us up, you're in our domain.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is our property.
Peter:That's our property. They are this is the only way they have to express dad, come on, dude. Yeah, do you see what's happening here? Yeah, right. If I shout, and this was a Sage Milan thing, if I shout at them to shut up, uh-huh, but you know, and uh or or be quiet, they only see that as me barking with them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they're like, Yeah, dad, you're right.
Peter:Let's go get this guy, right? And before you know it, we're all scrappy do, right? And and and it's whereas if I remain calm, I'm teaching them that so one of my dogs is better at this than the others. One bark is enough. Yeah, I needed to let him know. Yeah, I have my job, I have a I have a thing that's happened, yeah. But that is on the ball, he knows. So that's literally what I say, right? It's just like saying, I know, and then oh well, if you know I can go back to sleep, yeah, yeah. And because then we're all in that in that state of being, right? And and for a lot of children, it is and and that's a skill I've had to learn. That's not a skill I had because I come from a house where there was a lot more shouting at absolutely. But it it's it's um that type of skill is not usually a skill that we work on either before we have kids or even after we have kids, right? It is it is not it is something that we often forget until indeed maybe we come across our child having uh some issues, and then they go see you, and all of a sudden a world opens up of Yeah, uh babies.
SPEAKER_01:I can't tell you how many people I talk to that are like, I didn't even know I had an anger problem until I had kids, right? Until I made these little replicas of myself, and I've never felt so angry in my life at like something so cute, and so yeah, that's like so common. I even think like, yeah, like parenting makes us into like the better version of ourselves, like the next version of ourselves that like challenges us and changes us, but only if we choose to grow. Yeah, I I was in an Uber like a month ago, and the Uber driver said, like the most profound thing, I hope I can say it right, but it was like everything changes, but like you get to choose if you're gonna grow. And I love that. Like, parenting is gonna change you no matter what, you get to decide if it's gonna grow you or just change you. Like, is this gonna be a change for the better or not? Um, and so I love that I'm always okay. How am I gonna have this change help me grow into the better version of myself versus just be a different same version of myself?
Peter:Yeah, because that is that is again that's an excellent point, right? We we we see a lot of our our parentingness in the moment we have children, it is the Hollywood way teaches us, Hollywood teaches us, oh you've never loved anything like this before, and all that type of stuff. But it doesn't show anyone working on anything, yeah, right. But that that is very much an America's better for this than Britain, and and Britain is slightly better for this than most of the continent. Uh and by the same most of the continent, I'm talking about the northern part of the continent. So any Spanish and Italian people listening, yeah, because Mediterranean people are slightly different with their feelings. Um they're much more healthy with their feelings. I am of the bottle-it-up generation. I'm from that country where someone stabs you 25 times, it's fine. It's fine, we can get them later. No matter what, don't complain. Um but but we we don't get taught that we have to grow with uh with with with any change, and we don't we don't see that necessarily as a requirement until until we're in deep do-da, right? And I compare it to say an alcoholic showing up for the first AA meeting. Uh-huh. See, now my life was so off the rails.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
Peter:Right. So, how can we avoid getting to that stage, right? Because parenting-wise.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, I think it's like first, like believing me when I say that if you are the parent listening to this whose kid is having a lot of behaviors, like it's not your fault. Like, you are a good parent. If you're just listening to a podcast on parenting, like you are.
Peter:Yeah, you're trying to, yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_01:But also, you don't have to stay here, right? Let's just recognize that what you're doing isn't working. And you get to be the adult and then find things that will work. Come talk to me, come talk to someone, like get the help. Because the sooner you get help, just the happier everyone will be. I think one of the things that breaks my heart the most when I think about all the moms out there struggling with this is they just it like these kind of personality or diagnoses often do make parenting feel more challenging and it steals all the joy. Parents are so stressed out. Parents that come to me usually are so stressed out, they just feel like they're walking on eggshells in their house. Like they feel like maybe their kids run the show and they don't look forward to spending their time with their kids. And then the kids, so they love their kid more than anything, but also they're not enjoying the time they have with them. And and kids know that. Kids know if we are, it doesn't matter what we say, they can tell even by like our body actions, by our emotions, our face, like they pick up on all those signals if we enjoy being with them or not. And if your kid is picking up on the fact that you are not enjoying being with them or you're just waiting for the next terrible thing to happen, it's going to create more disconnection, which is going to lead to more behavior challenges. So it just becomes a cycle that gets worse and worse. So the sooner you recognize you're in the cycle is when you can just choose to break it. And I always say, like, it's just so much easier than people think it is. It just doesn't have to be changing everything.
Peter:Yeah, so we're just changing small because because it's because as soon as you said uh your child knows that you don't want to be around them, and you're kind of like that that that shouting parent. And and there's a real I mean, I'm not sure what my uh uh social media algorithm is now, but the the amount of of uh people in my in my feed that are no contact with their parents.
SPEAKER_03:Mm-hmm. Yes.
Peter:Is through the roof. I mean it is so high now. And and it almost inevitably starts with a parent that was let's say trying to raise their kids in the way that my parents raised their kids. And that is again no slight on my parents like at all. They did that. But but but this is just uh kids and as they become adults don't necessarily or or or they they don't necessarily air quote put up with that anymore. They don't accept yeah they don't accept yeah mom might love me but she doesn't like me very much because that's a shitty feeling at Christmas right yeah my god can you like me too like yeah please I'm I'm not a because there's nothing worse that's to develop health is it's okay to not be loved right that is I mean not by your parents maybe but as as a in generally in life yeah they're there but not be liked.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah if my husband was like I love you but I don't like you yeah that's a main a huge problem in our marriage right they know he does love me and like yeah yeah but that would be an issue and I I love that you touch on this and I always like I try to be careful because I don't want people to feel guilty. Like so much guilt comes up for moms that are in that yeah stuck in that yelling cycle with the behaviors so I'm like but but they like think that it's just so many moms are know it's a problem and they're stuck in it but they feel like nothing's gonna work and it's not that big a deal they should just leave it. And so to those moms I always wanted to say you know what this problem is like honestly so much bigger than you realize. It's really not just about yelling and feeling bad about it or your kid having tantrums it's about yeah your connection your child feeling deeply understood and liked. It's setting up their whole self-esteem and identity for the rest of their life are they a bad kid are they a good kid it's creating your relationship with them as an adult your relationship with your grandchildren even though your child's just three right now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so not to put pressure on it but just to like how important it is like you want to not yell you want to enjoy it and there's huge reasons why that's worth it. But also it's not I think people think that like when they are stuck in that cycle and they you know they've maybe read a book or gone to a webinar or something you know so that but like they that didn't work to help their parenting um then they feel like nothing's gonna work or they they think that like you know if they come talk to me I'm gonna tell them to like throw away all the technology in their house and like you know throw away all sugar and you only eat broccoli and right like like huge changes to their whole life and that sounds terrible like those are like changing your relational technology and food that's very overwhelming right like I my kids have sugar sometimes we have TV my kids get their screen time. So it's not we don't have to do huge drastic things overnight. It's what I'm always saying is like so many parents that come to me are what they're doing is actually pretty close to what they need to be doing but there's little tweaks they can make that change everything. So it's so much easier than they think it will be to actually get better behavior. I have a client that I talked to a week ago and she was really hesitant and it was more money than she you know it was a bit an investment right and she wasn't sure her husband was not on board and she was really scared that it wouldn't work because she has tried a lot of other things and courses and stuff that haven't worked and but she like she used her own money she got him to throw in some money she did it we got started she texted me last night and was just like this is the best so her hard times were like for a lot of people mornings getting out the door right after school or on the way from school and then bedtime. Yeah she's like we all had I just gave her a couple tips because she's a great mom doing a lot of good things and it changed everything for she's like this is the best day we've had together in a year. Like I can't even remember like bedtime was smooth there was no meltdowns like happy in the car happy out the door and not that that's the goal like I'm not gonna ever promise anyone no meltdowns because any kid's gonna have tantrum sometimes but it can just be so much better so quickly. Like we just I spoke with her once and she had the best day of her life and that's we're just starting right like this is like her future is going to be so much better her daughter's future is going to be so much better because of the work that she's choosing to do right now instead of waiting.
Peter:Yeah and and that really sounds to me like when you say because everybody I think in any field comes across this and any expert in any field comes across this when people say I've tried everything. Yeah and and and that usually means they've gone about things in slightly the wrong order of things. As in I always explain to people first the first thing you do if you find any problem you talk to an expert one on one. So that's yourself right your phone you just think okay I have a child that can't quite figure this stuff out a formal first that is your first step or email or how what however your website works. The second one is a book or a webinar or any sort of at least webinar may be above a book simply because you get to ask to ask some questions afterwards. There's a QA at the end with these things um and then there's a book and and then there's a course and and all that type of stuff people tend to start the other way around.
SPEAKER_01:They do they feel like it's wiser there's kind of this fallacy that it's like wiser to start like more with a DIY model and maybe with other things that's fine but with your kids like you don't have time for that like I haven't thought of it like you said it but I love that so much I'm gonna steal that if that's okay. Like yeah I and that's what I do with my own kids and they're when my own kids have things like I am the first one to go find someone that knows more than me. One-on-one um I'll read the books as backup because it's interesting and I want to know more. Or maybe if I'm picking which expert I want to talk to I'll watch their webinar but I'm a hundred percent talking one-on-one to a person because I don't want to do trial and error on my kid. Yeah I don't want to waste a second not getting them and not giving what they need. So yes I'm gonna go right to someone that can help me know exactly how to help them the most efficient quickest way possible.
Peter:Yeah because the one especially again especially with kids because you know a lot of my stuff is postpartum health related stuff and there's always time for that right well but with kids the that time is as I always say time is the one commodity you can't buy more of yes right and and it's it's expensive life is expensive and it's a shit show and everybody's broke and I completely get it right however if you can swing it because this is always the caveat if you can afford to do it if you can then this is the right order in which to do things because as you said earlier and as we spoke about earlier if you have a child who say four years old with some issues um that that you and you read a book and you read the wrong book because let's be honest a lot of books are terrible right and there's so many of them yeah and maybe they're great but they would be helpful for that other kid over there not your kid it's not yeah it's not dated towards your child and and it's just just uh a lot of people think that whomever writes a book is an authority on the subject that is just and let's be honest I can write a book tomorrow I mean I know people who've written books about training dogs that don't have dogs yeah because because ai allows you to do that there's a lot of gump out there and people should really see the amount of emails I get on a weekly basis from people who want to come onto like a podcast and and and talk about stuff that I'm like oh dude you have no qualifications to talk about this particular subject and we're talking serious medical stuff right um but people feel confident putting a book out and then and so all you're getting usually when you're reading a book is first of all you spend a week or two reading a book and then you have to apply the techniques in it. But all you're getting is usually someone's opinion on what usually is the right thing to do or what works for them.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
Peter:That is the same as taking advice from a Facebook group unless you're talking unless you buy a book from someone who's an expert in the field.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
Peter:And I find most people that buy books don't buy books from people who are experts in the field and most people who are experts in the field don't like writing books. Yeah because those are different skill sets. Yeah and it's meant because everything you said today came with the caveat kind of saying depending on the child.
SPEAKER_01:A hundred percent well you can't put that in a book it doesn't sell yeah right I do a lot of speaking engagements and I try to have a QA at the end and everyone's like well my kid has these and I'm like I'm so I'm so annoying. I'm sorry because I'm always gonna tell you it depends. Yeah like I can't without getting to like I'm not gonna say yes this is exactly it and like one of the main differences that I find with parenting books because I read them now and I have so much background that I'm like oh yeah I see where that's coming from like that's great. But like if you don't have the you know 20 plus years of experience and a master's degree in the subject it's gonna be hard to do that. Um what I have found is like often I'm always tailoring my interventions not by the personality not by the diagnosis but by why the child is doing that thing.
Peter:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Because a tantrum can look the exact same but I could have four kids doing the same tantrum next to each other and they're all doing it for totally different reasons. So I'm gonna respond to each of them very differently. And yeah if you ask Google what do I do in my kid tantrums tantrum Google's gonna give you a beautiful list of like tens, whatever however many strategies you want, right? That are probably right for one of those kids, but not right for all of them and you don't know which ones to use because no one's talking about why your kid is tantruming and you have not been taught how to understand why.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Everything I do is like teaching you how to understand why your kid's doing that, what they're trying to communicate with you because then you know how to respond. But we can't just say yep tantrum like I wouldn't walk into a class and if a kid's having a tantrum know exactly how to respond to them without having met them. Of course I I I have like a base that I would like start with any kid I don't know. But I'm not gonna, I'm not magical. I need to get to know the kid. I and so when I talk to parents often I've done this enough where you start telling about your kid and I'm like oh I have like little profiles in my head of like yeah you have this kind of kid. I get it. Here's what usually works for this kind of kid. We're gonna start right here. I'm gonna get you so close to it and then we're gonna tweak it because your kid is still an individual kid. Yeah and we're gonna and you are an individual parent your style's a little bit different. We're gonna make this custom to work exactly for you. And no book can do that. A book is written to many people I have plans to write a book one day it is not going to I'm never gonna say this is all you need is this one book and this will solve everything, right? It it'll be helpful to understand the framework and maybe decide you know know me better if you want to have me help you apply it. But but yeah a book can't answer your questions it's not specifically for you it's general advice to a big group of people which is awesome but often not enough in on its own no exactly because by the time you get to the by the time you get to the stage where you are like I said you have a four year old you're reading a book for a little while yeah you spend a year on the technique in the book that's that's let's say a year.
Peter:That's a long time that is huge. I mean that's a huge time investment yeah um and frustration and it doesn't work and then we've we've all known that feeling that it's not just us that is like the worst feeling in the world right and bad parents sure that's a worse feeling bad kid yeah is significantly worse as a feeling it is like my child will grow up to go into uh some sort of institution will be locked up and pilot rooms because otherwise he'll be a sociopath that type of that type of thing um like prodigal son style Michael Sheen for anybody who likes TV references um but but that you just and then because what I find with people who've tried stuff that didn't work especially low-level stuff that didn't work yeah it takes them years to try again it does because they feel like they failed and nothing else is gonna work exactly and there's a huge the hurdle in the barrier is bigger now um I totally agree the more people have tried before they come to me the harder it is for them to look it it it is it is it is very very difficult because it's counterintuitive and they feel like they've been wise but I think you're 100% right not they have maybe spent less money up front but they've spent years usually trying all this different stuff and during those years their relationship with their child has gotten worse.
SPEAKER_01:Their child's all those bad behaviors have become habits that have been strengthened every single day. Exactly so the behaviors get worse during those several years your relationship with your kid is much worse and now still come to me but it's it's it's gonna be a lot more work now and a lot more expensive a lot more time consuming versus if we had just done it beginner. So I always say it's never too late. I work with any I have a client with like a teenager right now and they're doing great we're really helping like the mom daughter dynamic and managing all of the teenage trauma. So it's never too late but if you are listening you have a little one and you're considering being wise on doing quotation marks by reading the book first right like don't don't do it don't waste another minute just solve just solve it.
Peter:Figure your kid out and then start start at start at the top of of of the pyramid start with start with the expert to start one with the expert yeah um because like you said the the investment time and money and especially when it comes to kids and relationship management wise and and all that all that type of stuff is just absolutely I mean it's good and just just don't pay for other things. Yeah there are certain things that are the priority and and and I'm not saying that everybody does this but I I know several people that should probably work one-on-one with an expert in whatever field they're looking for and they chose to upgrade the car instead and I'm thinking so we're not talking about poor people that have no money to spend right but we're talking about people that have a thousand pounds to spend on an iPhone 17 yeah but don't want but buy the or download the free ebook when it comes to raising kids and you're like maybe maybe wait till the prior yeah I love to go to Disneyland.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I live in California so it's like six hours away that's like my happy place. I love taking my kids there. But yeah there's so often that I'm at Disneyland I mean not that often I wish it's more often than I could go but when I am there there's been so many moments where I am like we spent thousands of dollars you know everyone here has spent thousands of dollars to get here probably right because most people here for many days and all the things and there's just parents yelling at their kids in the line the whole time so annoyed right parent temper tantrums all the time and yeah like the kids are overstimulated no one is sleeping well there's lots of sugar like but they come they spend all of their money on this vacation just to yell at their kids in a in a different place. And so I'll tell I'm like if that's you like put off that vacation yeah right the kids will fight you for six months working on this learn how to to not yell anymore learn what to do learn how to just be able to enjoy it and go later your kids never gonna know that the a trip was postponed or missed but they're always gonna remember the moment that you yelled at them at Disneyland or that you they grew up with someone who did not yell at them. Yeah for sure yeah core memories people core memories yeah they don't care what car you drove they care do you understand them do you like them like that's what they're gonna notice and remember and what really matters.
Peter:Yeah no I'm completely 100% on board with that message. Yeah on the happy note we covered a lot of ground and you know listen to numbers drop off massively after an hour because you know people are impatient. Was there anything else you wanted to cover?
SPEAKER_01:Um no I think you covered it uh we yeah that was a great conversation I just did want to share uh with anyone listening if you want more information on what I do uh please go to my website I'm sure it'll be like linked in the podcast notes but it's okay so yeah but it's www.melissaschult.com and the Schultz is spelled weird it's s-c-h u l z and I have a free e-guide how to get kids to listen um just download that that's gonna get you on my email list it's gonna get you some practical tips that you can use right away that work for all of these kids and it's gonna get you on my email list and I do lots of free events um and I would just love I also offer a free consultation so if there's a parent interested in working with me I will sit down with you for an hour for free and really help you figure out why this is happening and you can see if working with me is the perfect fit.
Peter:See that is how you do it people take the fee that is in genuinely I mean I'm not a I I used to do this driving around Edinburgh when I did postpartum exercise uh related stuff uh postpartum PT style stuff um because a lot of people can't afford it right so I thought everybody needs a free hour long consultation someone who knows what they're talking about because the amount of time and money you save just by taking up that free hour yes first of all it's an hour you spend 20 hours reading a book that you're never gonna use that we just spoke about so you know don't give Bezos your money right don't go to Amazon and and buy stuff you don't need and do this instead all the links will of course be in the podcast description so I'm not happy now that we'll press stop record here and pressing stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks so much to Melissa for coming on um like I said I absolutely love Melissa get I know and and I I know I finished the podcast on this get the free guide and if you can swing it if you can swing it spend an hour talking to Melissa um because it saves you a lot of time it saves you a lot of money talking to an expert and again I'm not getting paid for this right this is not a referral service I'm not getting any money for telling you to look her up at Melissashules.com there's a free guide and all this other stuff I will link to it but if you can always absolutely always instead of buying a book see if you can swing spending an hour with an expert like Melissa to talk through stuff so that they can come up with a plan. You'll likely learn a lot more in that hour for something that for something that works for your kids and works for your situation than you would reading a book and hoping it helps. And you know time as always they always say is of the essence. Anyways let's meet on for another week Peter at healthypostnatoboy.com next week we're doing um from the vault I've got interviews coming out the bazoo to be honest you're gonna love all this stuff um have a great 2026 and I'll be back next week right take care by now
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