FTV Social media safety and human trafficking prevention with Stephanie Olson

As more Epstein files/emails have come out, I thought this was an important episode to bring back. 

This week I once again bring you the interview I did with Stephanie Olson.

She's the CEO of the Set me Free Project,  a prevention education organization on human trafficking, social media safety, and healthy relationships.

We're talking social media safety;

Is it a good idea to set up a social media account for your baby/toddler?
What is the biggest thing people ignore about social media?
Do you REALLY know everyone you're connected with and giving information to, etc.?

We are also talking human trafficking.

Most human trafficking is nothing like what you see in Liam Neeson movies.
Most trafficking is carried out by people familiar to the child involved.
So what sort of precautions can, and should, we take?
Why is communication with a trusted person soo important for children?
And how can we, as adults, help children who might be at risk?

I loved the whole conversation and definitely learned an awful lot about a subject I thought I had some idea of but it turns out almost everything I thought I knew was wrong.

You can find Stephanie, and the Set Me Free Project here.

Their website https://www.setmefreeproject.net/
If you are interested in their training programs for work and agencies you can find that here
Follow her on Facebook
And on Instagram
They're even on Twitter!


In the news this week; This study about the health impacts of "weight-cycling". A common myth heard these days is that intentionally losing weight (dieting) and then gaining that weight again is bad for your overall health and that, actually, you're better off staying at your higher weight. This is nonsense. There is ZERO evidence to show that that is the case and this study from 2014 clearly shows that.

For next week's podcast we will do a "Top dieting myths" episode so, let me know if you have any questions you'd like answered or have heard something silly recently that you want to share.

Remember that I am still looking for people to test to userfriendlyness of our program to people with hearing issues so if you would like to get involved and get FREE lifetime access, just send a little email to peter@healthypostnatalbody.com

Remember to follow us on Instagram and Facebook for the competitions, wisdom and cute videos.

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Playing us out this week; "Back & Forth" by Tru Genesis 

Transcript

Why Reshare This Conversation

Peter 0:00

Hey, welcome to the Alpha Postnatal Body Podcast with Postnatal Expert Beatle App. Not as always will be me. This is the podcast for the 8th of Feb 2026. And it's uh I'm not gonna lie to you, it's a dark one. This week. Um I did an interview a while ago with uh Stephanie Olsen, who's the CEO of the Step Me Free Project, um, which is a prevention education organization on human trafficking, social media safety, and healthy relationships and all that sort of stuff. And this was 2021, so this was when I just kind of kind of had just started this thing, or a year into it, I can't can't remember. A long time ago, Stephanie was very kind to come on when she was one of my first guests. Um there's been a tremendous amount of stuff in in the media this week, with more especially in the UK with regards to more uh stuff leaked from the uh the Epstein files are released, they would say, but I I would argue it's leaked because we don't have all the information yet. Um Epstein files, those of you who follow me on threads know that I'm very outspoken about this type of stuff, much to my uh detriment. Um I think this is an important one. Well, uh a very important episode to bring out again, because Stephanie and I discussed many, many, many things. Uh, social media safety, like I said, and human trafficking, which is really her area of expertise, you know, because the image people have for about human trafficking is the Liam Neeson style uh taken type stuff. You know, that is just not what it is. And we see from the Epstein files this week what came out. If you're if if if you've read if if you've read some of the files, most trafficking is carried out by people familiar to to the child involved, um but and and we see this. We've we've seen emails from uh from friends, air quotes of of Jeffrey Epstein saying, My daughter's having a 15-year-old birthday party, she's inviting five friends, why don't you come over? That type of really dark stuff. That is what human trafficking looks like. Not just snatching people up off the street. Um, and you know, so it's important, you know, what precautions can and should we take? Why communication with a trusted person is so important, and how can we as adults help children who might be at risk and all that sort of stuff? It's an amazing conversation. I was delighted, absolutely delighted that Stephanie agreed to come on. Like I said, it's now five years ago almost. Uh, but it's a it's an episode worth repeating. So without further ado, here we go. What are the main issues you come across when talking to people about social media safety, especially? Uh, what are people not aware of that they kind of really should be?

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Yeah, there is so much that people aren't aware of. And I think part of that is just because social media um is now just a part of our lives. It's can be it can be a great, great thing. And it almost becomes like a friend to us. And so I think there are a lot of things that people um don't really recognize. One of those things is that we've got people, we always say, if when when you have access to the world, the world has access to you. And so, you know, when when we have random people following us, or oh, you know, that's a friend of a friend, I don't really know. We are putting out a ton of information that can be easily accessed, and we don't even realize that we're doing that.

Peter 4:24

Yeah, because that's interesting, because I'm I'm on Reddit a lot. That is kind of the only social media platform that I use. If I mean, I technically it's social media, right? Um so I'm not massive on Facebook and Instagram. The HPNB is, but that's because kind of it has to be as an online sort of thing, right? Um but I do come across a lot of videos from uh that uh Danesh guy. And don't know if you've stumbled across him, he's very popular with the whole people protest and people are racist online, and then he he's a TikToker, and he just goes, actually, this guy, this is Mark from Pennsylvania, and he lives here, and this is who he works for, and then therefore, let's get Mark fired. Um, he's always always on on on the side of good, right? That is kind of why you see you see a lot of right, right? So the people in in the videos tend to just be, I mean, you know, we call them carents now, apparently. Um, that type of sort of I would feel bad for people near. I really do but it it it's kind of it's the so those people, and then then and he says actually it's turns out it's this person, and so anti-vaxxers turns out that she's a nurse at this hospital, and blah blah blah. And then he sends an email to the hospital saying, Are you sure this person should be employed? and that sort of thing. And I'm not doing him any justice whatsoever here. But my point is more that that's just a person in the video, he just sees that person and he goes, That is he can trace her all the way down to the employer through her social media profile. Absolutely, absolutely, and even though I see those videos, it still doesn't register with me that he could probably do the same with me. And I'm thinking that's the same for a lot of people.

Social Media Exposure And OSINT Risks

SPEAKER_05 6:19

Well, and look at the power that that wields, because we've got somebody who, you know, has an opinion and um and they decide your opinion is wrong, regardless of you know what side you're on, your opinion is wrong. And I'm gonna do whatever I can to make sure that you don't have a sustainable income. I mean, that I mean over overwhelming um power. And so I think those are the things that we do have to recognize is there are people who can do um do things through social media that we would never even consider. And because we have that information out there, it's really easy to do.

Peter 7:08

Obviously, most of my my listeners will be parents, um you know, everybody these days is kind of aware you shouldn't put pictures of your kids online, right? That is just the amount of Instagram accounts I come across. Um, because people say some of some work with sense me and stuff like that. This five-year-old has an Instagram account, maybe we can work with, and I'm like, I don't I don't care about five-year-olds, that's not really what they don't suffer from postnatal issues. It's it's the moms, but it is astonishing, I suppose, how parents are not aware maybe they are aware. What do I know? Maybe I'm just a jackass, but how they how they're seemingly not aware that having an Instagram account for a five, six, seven-year-old, no matter how cute and adorable they are, is maybe less secure than you think it is.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

Right, right. That that is that is really true, and I'm gonna respond to that in a couple different um avenues because yes, a lot of kids right now want to be Instagram famous or YouTube famous, and so they're posting videos or pictures of of themselves so that they can get recognition. The problem is that they are getting recognition, and um, and we don't even realize what identifying information we're putting on screen, and it could be something as simple as I'm wearing, you know, my favorite team's sweatshirt or the school I go to, and they don't even realize right there you've just put identifying information. The other thing parents don't realize is when they are doing that, just even, you know, you say parents now know they shouldn't post pictures of their kids. I I see just the opposite. And the amount of first day of school or last day of school photos in front of the school sign, and you know, and you think, oh, well, this is just people I know that are following me. But it's amazing how many people that we allow to follow us that we really don't know. We may have met them, but do we really know who they are and know who they associate with, especially if you're talking about uh parents, everybody's friends with every other parent in the class, so to speak.

Peter 9:40

Right? And that already gives you 30 people or something like that, or 60 people, moms and dads, and then in the whole nuclear family sort of set up that you're friends with. And I don't know about you, but I don't even know 60 people, so at least not well enough.

SPEAKER_05 9:55

But right, right, yeah. I mean, we may meet a lot of people, but when you think about the amount of the people that you know that you're really willing to tell some of the, you know, the things that we post on social media. And I think it's really important to recognize that our kiddos um are not, especially the the older kiddos, like preteen to um teenager. I always say they're not posting pictures of their food like I am, you know, they're posting their deepest, darkest. And they're posting that they don't have anybody to talk to. Hey, I'm looking for an internet best friend, you know, I really hate my parents right now. All of this stuff that really does make a tremendous um uh make makes them vulnerable to people who might want to do them harm.

Peter 10:52

Yeah, sure, because I suppose that gives them an in, right? As in uh with regards to I hate my parents right now. Oh, that's that's nice. I mean, that's an easy, but you but you you can like me sort of even I see that one coming, so to speak. And like we briefly said before the before the thing is in you know, uh when we're talking about human trafficking and all and all that sort of stuff, the whole even that is covered by Hollywood, right? The the the creep who gets in in that way. So I think people are kind of back of their mind they're aware of it because they've seen CSI Miami or or or crew or criminal intent or or what sort of stuff, right? But what I suppose I find uh you see a lot is that this stuff never hits home until it hits home, sort of sort of thing, right? Exactly. As it can't happen to you.

Kids’ Accounts And Hidden Identifiers

SPEAKER_05 11:47

Well, and that's why um we are so um we're all about prevention education, because you hope you never need to have that information, but the minute you do, you need that information. And so it really is important to understand what trafficking really looks like because media is gonna sensationalize everything. So it's not very exciting to show a, you know, to write a movie about somebody who built a relationship with somebody, and now we have this great relationship, and a year later, you know, that's not exciting, but you get kidnapped by a white band, somebody in a white band, that's gonna make the the news. But we know that the majority of trafficked individuals are lured by someone they know already. And so, and they don't self-identify as trafficked because they don't even recognize this is trafficking, this is someone I love, this is someone I trust. Familial trafficking is huge right now. And so mom and dads are the traffickers, grand and grandpas are the traffickers. So I think um, and when we recognize that traffickers are finding the individuals they traffic on social media, it it changes the whole landscape of what it looks like.

Peter 13:13

Yeah, because I suppose it's it's quite funny, right? Not ha ha funny, but it's it's it's it's way funny. Right. But in in the when you're talking about there's uh there's uh increase in familial trafficking and all that sort of stuff. You're it used to be, and one of my friends is a police officer, and he's quite uh quite high high up in the police, and he's been you know, proper detective as in uh uh Danny Reagan style sort of sort of stuff. So he's he's he says he said, dude, uh if your wife ends up murdered, I'm going to arrest you. End of discussion, that will happen because it's likely to have in you, right? And everybody kind of accepts that that is the first that is the first thing. People get get murdered, you know, by people home first. We see uh trafficking and kidnapping and and abuse we tend to see that as removed from the family, at least outsiders and not people like yourself who are actively involved, but people like me see that as a European sex trafficking gang is responsible for exactly rather than other people.

SPEAKER_05 14:34

Right. Well, I think that's more comforting, to be totally honest with you. That sounds kind of odd, but I think when you're talking about something like murder, that typically tends to be uh, you know, you're in the heat of passion. It's not not a usually a planned thing, and I'm gonna, it's something that happens quickly and and it and it doesn't happen as often. But when you start to recognize that human trafficking is relationship building and it's not happening by the cartels, or it's not, I mean, it is, but that's not the most common form, then you have to start looking close to home. Then you have to start saying, okay, wait, so it's my kid that's at risk, it's my grandkid or whomever, and that it's in my home because of social media, it changes everything. And as a mom, I get that. It was warm with my head in the sand when I didn't want to. I mean, it felt good in there. I get it.

Peter 15:40

It's just not effective. No, true. So, so when you're saying obviously, as part of the whole set me free uh project, and I'll again I will link to this for for the listeners. I will link to everything in this thing, and we'll do a transcript and all that sort of thing. How do you prevent traffic? Because we we have two things, right? We we we touched on the uh the aspect of social media safety, which helps for a large chunk, but it doesn't help against, for want of a better phrase, granddad. Granddad knows where you live, knows where you go to school, and like he usually picks you up and the parents. So we know we need to be careful on social media, but how do you even get to the stage that you can when you're talking about prevention? How do you get to the stage where the familial trafficking is something that can be prevented?

Prevention Through Relationships And Dignity

SPEAKER_05 16:38

That is a great question. So um here's here's what I say, what I would say to that. Um, and I'm gonna answer it in kind of two parts because I think it's an important, it's an important question. First of all, the foundation of everything that we teach is that you have incredible value and worth, and that you have human dignity. And when you understand your own humanity and how amazing you are, you really do treat yourself a little different. You know, there's there's some respect that goes on. I have value, I'm an amazing person. You look at that differently, but also we have to see that in everybody else. So we have to recognize this individual has incredible value and worth. Now, when we recognize other people's value and human dignity, we can't buy them, we can't sell them. So I think that's the bottom line. Now, I always say the number one way to prevent human trafficking is by building relationships. Traffickers build incredible relationships. We actually have to build better ones. And so when we can be that safe place for an individual, whether that's in a we're we're teachers in a school or we're parents or whatever that is, that creates an opportunity to um come and disclose if that is necessary. Now, preventing human trafficking in a familial sense, that's really tricky because that usually is generations upon generations. Um, most people do not wake up and say, you know what, I think I'm gonna sell my kids today. I mean, people don't do that. And so it's usually innate in the family or something on that level. There's a lot of drugs or whatever it may be. So instead of talking about prevention in that sense, um I think we have to talk about what it means to be a safe person for somebody. And that we want to teach kiddos, if they're going through something like that, to tell somebody until. Tell somebody until you get the help that you need to get out of that situation. And one of the things that we do in our presentations is we talk about what healthy relationships are and what they look like. We talk about what trafficking is and what it looks like and the tricks of the trafficker and how, you know, Ms. and misconceptions and all of those things. So then, if we have a kiddo in the classroom who is being trafficked by a family member, at that point, then the goal is to tell us that you need help so we can report it and get your help. And I think that's it's gotta start at that base level of recognizing human dignity and human worth, and that people cannot be products. And then it's just gotta kind of build from there.

Peter 20:03

Well, that means that because it's interesting you say that, right? Because usually the way I picture a school, and I'm not that familiar with the the the US school system, the way I picture a school is is similar to the way it is in the UK. A couple of thousand kids go to the same school, as in usually a large building. These days, the days of I mean, I'm 46, right? So I went to a small school because that was the norm where I stayed, but now all schools are much bigger and larger catchment areas and all that sort of stuff. A few thousand pupils, everybody has X amount of teachers. There's usually a dedicated person for kids to speak to. Um the problem is, of course, that if you have a few thousand kids going to one school, and you have one dedicated person that kind of knows what you're talking about, even if they haven't been to a presentation yet, but that's kind of what their job is. Teachers are stressed, teachers have many, many things to do. They work like 10-12 hour days for a little pay, if you know, is what most of them tell me is how do you get through to the teachers that uh because every teacher I I find teachers and doctors are similar this way, as in nobody chooses it for better profession that it ends up being, right? We've all seen coach character, and that's what makes us want to be a basketball coach, right? Because teachers want to inspire, they just end up not doing it because the system sucks, right? Um yeah, but all teachers fundamentally, or most teachers fundamentally are good people, they want to it's they care exactly, yeah. But that kind of how do you talk to them about guys? I know you're busy and I know you're but you also still have to be an open door for the hundred cases. See on a daily basis?

Schools, Safe Adults, And Disclosure

SPEAKER_05 22:02

You know, we we love to talk to educators actually first. So if we had our perfect world, we would talk to educators before we talk to students so we can help train the educators to know what to look for, to know what to do, know what happens when a kiddo discloses. But I I think that I mean you're right on our teachers today, they're overworked and underpaid. The stress of COVID on their lives has just made it tremendously difficult. Now we've got students who were straight A students and now they're failing classes because they, you know, it's all of these things. And so our and and we have a shortage of teachers because of all of that. And so it's really difficult for them. Uh, what I would say is that um, you know, sometimes they do the best they can. Sometimes it though, what I see in some of the schools is it's really important to train not just that one dedicated person who might have a social worker or counselor, but that every teacher in the classroom is trained to know what to do and how to handle that. I think that's really important. That every actually every staff member, because what if that one dedicated person, and this sounds really horrible, but what if that one person is somebody who wants to do a program, yeah. Yeah, and so we need to have our kids be able to disclose to anyone they feel safe with, and I think that is the key, and just really teaching teachers how to be that safe person, which is about listening, it's about listening without judgment. How do you respond? You respond without the well, why questions? Why did you do that? We don't want shame and blame. We want to respond with what or how, how did that happen? What happened? And um, and then making sure that they get to somebody where they don't have to tell their story over and over and over again. Um, those those are some of the key things to becoming that safe person at what that's what that looks like, and always believing them. Um I I just have to tell you this. We had a um, I'm gonna, this is a made-up story. So um, you know, we've seen schools where they're exhausted, and this is few and far between, but because the majority of schools, the majority of teachers are fantastic. But when you live in an area where there are traumatized children, children who have trauma-induced lives are going to respond very difficult differently. They're going to be the difficult ones in class or the ones that just really go inside of themselves, but usually they're the difficult ones. So you've got a school full of trauma-induced children, and what happens is they become overwhelming, and sometimes it becomes too overwhelming for those teachers and administrators to handle, and then we're not handling it well at all. And so that can happen, and so it's gotta be a constant juggle, but it's it's challenging.

Peter 25:47

Something that you mean because that's that's interesting because it's something you mentioned earlier, then with regards to COVID and straight A students no longer getting straight A's and all that sort of thing. But from my very limited understanding of the things, is that all these training courses that teachers used to get, so this is like 10-15 years out of date, right? Is always a well, if a kid's grades are suddenly failing, you need to ask the kid what's happening, right? That is one of the first things they talk about. As in, is there something happening? This was uh during the whole in in in Holland, at least I were talking even 20 years ago, um, because I haven't lived in Holland for a while. It's it's it was all about uh that's when there is something up, when the behavior changes, right? Uh that's and it was usually to do with sexual abuse and and abuse in the house and and and all that sort of thing. That was what the coaching was about. I'm not saying that that's why the kids' parents were dropping. Well, we had a situation in the UK in Rochdale. Uh is it a town in the UK? I want to say five or six years ago where a whole paedophile ring was rolled up. And it was and we're talking 20, 30, 40 kids, and they're all British kids. They're all kids that live in the community, right? And it's a it's a tragic thing. Failings by social services, and failings by teachers, and all that sort of stuff. Because exactly it's exactly what you were saying. These are all troubled kids. These were not straight-aided students, straight-aided students whose grades just dropped. These are all kids from broken homes and foster homes and and all that sort of stuff, who were smoking at age of 12, 13, 14, they were drinking, they were doing drugs, and that's an easy, nice, easy way. And of course, drugs, right? But the as far as how do you even begin to other than with with the adults in this, because like I said, social services failed these children terribly. There were reports that something was going on, police ignored it, and all that sort of stuff, which is uh I am let to believe still the biggest problem. Is that people ignore it when a child or a young adult or even a woman? I mean, we've heard the whole Me Too movement. We kind of know, right? That's a story. I told people, but people didn't believe me, sort of thing. Um, how do you as a lay person? Because in this case the system failed. Um we are very tempted. I personally, as an individual, is I'm very tempted to think, yeah, but other people are dealing with this stuff, right? Therefore, I am not. That is the implication thereof. Other people are looking at this, I don't I don't have to. Um how do you, as a layperson, which a teacher essentially is compared to a social worker that is already supposed to work with his how do you then deal with being that person of safety to the kids, the person that does believe them, the person that sees that actually this isn't about smoking and drinking, but something else is going on here. How do you from a say a presentation perspective and a teaching perspective, how do you get through to the teachers and what behaviors do you think, you know what uh I impart this on them?

Reading Atypical Behavior And Better Questions

SPEAKER_05 29:16

You know, that's a great question. I think that anything that is not typical deserves a second look. So if if there was typical behavior with this child and then all of a sudden there's atypical behavior, that is an indicator that something is wrong. And regardless of what that is, we need to start asking questions. And I always tell teachers, you know, it's the questions behind the questions that we need to ask. So if you have a child who is in a sexual abuse situation or is being trafficked, and you say, Hey, are you being sexually abused? The answer is probably going to be no. I mean, that's not so we need to start asking the questions behind the questions. So you've got this new friend or this new relationship, tell me about that. I would love to hear more. Or, gosh, I've noticed that you're kind of dressing different. I love the new look. Tell me, tell me where that came from. Or you have a job. That's awesome. Where do you get to spend your money? And it's just really starting to ask those questions so that when a kiddo starts to talk to you because they see you as safe, I think that is that is in part how you do it. Um, but it also requires, and this is what I would say to any teacher, anybody really on the front lines, you've got to take care of yourself. You've got to look at your own trauma and make sure that your own trauma is not getting in the way of dealing with somebody else's trauma. Um, because so first take care of yourself. If you've got if you've got traumatic situations, get help for those things. Um, but secondary trauma is a real thing. And so when we are helping somebody who is being trauma who is is dealing with trauma, that trauma can just really affect us too. And so it becomes secondary trauma. So recognizing those things, taking care of yourself, and not doing it alone, making sure that you've got a strong support system, you've got people around you. I had a teacher say to me once, you know, I it I really struggle every day because I know that I'm sending this child back into their trauma every day. And what I always say to teachers is, you know, you are making a difference, you are making an impact, and you may never see it. You may never see the seeds that you've planted grow into a harvest, you may never see it, but just know that you are. And sometimes it's those little, um, just those little that little help from every individual can catapult a child who's struggling to overcoming. And so I think that knowing those things and and working together in those areas is really critical.

Peter 32:33

Yeah, no, that sounds very, very uh sensible to me. It sounds very as in something as like something that that makes sense. So how do you how do you then bring it back to the parents, right? Most of my listeners aren't teachers, uh, most of my listeners are parents. How do you obviously it comes down to building a relationship with your child that means that they are comfortable coming to you if there's anything happening, right? That is at the basis of of of all this sort of stuff. Um, how do you where do you start with that? I think for most people that's a difficult bit because obviously again, we have uh well, you have the uh uh some Samaritans as well in in the states, because these guys are everywhere doing doing lovely work. But usually what happens is a there's a program on the BBC about trafficking, uh, but something like this, and and then at the end of it, there's a little message. Are you affected by any situation in this program called the Samaritans or something like that? But where do you start as parents though? Because uh because it's a start, that's the difficult bit, right?

SPEAKER_05 33:42

It's uh I I agree. So um that's a great I keep saying that's a great question because they are, I think with with parents. So this is this is the the hard part because I know I'm talking to some very young parents, which is great, and then some parents who are you know more mature have older kiddos. And I I would say this as young as you can start, that's where you start. So one of the things parents really need to teach their kids is about consent. It's important for them to understand that you know we need to ask permission whenever it comes to this bodily autonomy thing. And so that we we liken that. I mean, we we get that sexually, right? So we need to ask for consent before we have sex with somebody. That makes sense, but we've got to start that conversation at a very, very young age. So I've got little Johnny here who's five years old, and Aunt Gertrude comes and visits and wants a big hug and a kiss. Well, what if little Johnny says, no, thank you? Do not want to hug and kiss Aunt Gertrude. As a mom, you're initially kind of embarrassed. Oh my gosh, I told you that. But we have to learn at a very young age, we get to help our kids say, okay, you don't want to hug and kiss Aunt Gertrude? No problem. What else can we do? Can we give her a fist pump? Can we wave for whatever? And teaching kids at a very young age that they get to say no to even good touch is really important because what people who want to do harm count on is that they don't, we call them consent muscles. They don't have their consent muscles ready to go. And so if now I say, hey, I want you to do this and I'm not comfortable, but I've kind of grown up been being taught it's rude to say no, then that is a really, really hard piece to overcome. And so parents teaching kids consent at a very young age, having those conversations. Um, I think as parents, one of the biggest things we need to do is continue to be engaged with our kids constantly. I I saw a dad sitting in a, we were at an orthodontist, and he was just texting away and on his social media, and his little daughter was dancing in front of him, trying to get his attention, just doing everything she could. He would not look up. And so I think as parents, we need to be willing to. I mean, you want to talk about Minecraft for the next 15 hours? Okay, I'm listening, you know, as painful as that's gonna be. And we need to be willing to have even those conversations so that when they come to us and say, Okay, now I need to talk about this, and this is gonna be really hard for me. We're then ready to engage. And you said we can't react. You know, the first time they come to us with something that makes our hair curl, um, my hair's curly. See, so this happened many times to me. The first time they come to you and say that, you can't go, what? I can't believe that. You have to be calm internally, we go crazy, but but externally, you've got to be calm. And gosh, thank you for sharing that. Not that there won't be consequences, not that you won't be a parent, but at that moment, you've got to just listen. And I think when we do all of those things, then there's a point where they can come to us and we're able to have that really tough conversation. It's got to start at a young age.

Parenting For Safety: Consent And Presence

Peter 37:44

Yeah, and and again, it starts with the entry-level stuff, right? I know much more about the nether and dragons than I ever, ever, ever care to know about. I just genuinely don't care. I don't understand it, but I know it.

SPEAKER_05 37:59

Yeah, and you don't need to be able to do that. No, no, exactly.

Peter 38:01

I for some reason the grinding bones, a bone meal has to be made. But I have no, I have no idea how to actually put this into into any future use. But it is it is indeed starting, I suppose, starting with if you've never had a conversation with someone before on on any sort of uh minor meaningful level, you're not a trusted person, I suppose, is what you're saying, right?

SPEAKER_04 38:26

Exactly. Exactly.

Peter 38:28

If they can't come with you to the to the easy uh um to you with the easy stuff, then they're not going to come to you with uh with the more difficult right. Right. Well so it's interesting, is what you were saying. I'm just looking at your um at your website and and and the the much details here. It's saying it's you have an interesting thing here, is that one of the interesting things here is that you're saying that less than two percent of triff trafficking victims are recovered, which to me is a mind-blowing number. Because again, yes, I watched criminal intent, or I used to before it all turned to pop. They're always recovering, right? I mean, there was this there was one series was based on on the girl that was recovered, and then she helped the FBI find all the other victims, and she found them all. Well, that's kind of the whole point. Otherwise, I'm not watching I'm not watching misery television, right?

SPEAKER_05 39:20

Exactly.

Peter 39:22

So when you say two percent, I mean, I mean, even the amnesia has a better success rate than that, right? He he gets yeah, so yeah, yeah, that's an astonishing statistic.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

It is, which is why our goal is to stop trafficking before it starts, because there are so few recovered. Now, part of that is because the life of trafficking is really hard. And so once um, they say that the lifespan of a trafficked individual is about seven years. So whether that is um death, whether that's you know, drug overdose or whatever, it's a very short lifespan, it's a tough life. And um, and so that in and of itself, but the biggest reason that's the case is because traffickers use the grooming process to lure the individual, say, traffic. So they target, they build trust, they fill a need, then they isolate, sexualize you as a product, and then they maintain control. So the person who goes into the grooming process is never the same person who comes out of the grooming process. It changes who we are. So now we have the person who's saying, Why would I leave my trafficker? Uh and I'm not gonna call them my trafficker, I'm gonna call them my boyfriend, my girlfriend, my partner. Why would I leave this person? They love me, they take care of me, they fill all of my needs, emotional and physical. I have a place to stay, I have a roof over my head, I've got, you know, food to eat. And so why would I leave this trafficker who I've now formed a strong trauma bond with, and um go to you to do what? You know, and so a survivor actually said, if you want to help a trafficked individual, you better be prepared to give them everything or more than their traffickers giving them. So part of the reason we see such a low number is there the rate of going back after being recovered is really high. Why would I leave this? This is all I know. This is where I feel safe and secure, ironically enough. And so it's just we we definitely as an organization want to stop that before it starts.

Peter 41:57

So it's really similar to just say the more standard abusive relationships that we are more familiar with in adults rather than because kids is more uncomfortable, right? We can kind of get the husband-wife beating each other sort of sort of thing. Always when I say beating each other, it's it's usually one direction, surely. But it it is with children, it adds another level of of discomfort, and that's why we don't I suppose we don't view that relationship as a similar relationship to the abusive relationship between husband and wife. When somebody gets out, the chances of them going back is is is high. We I suppose from an outside perspective, again, we we we view kids as being rescued rather than which we don't do with women, right? We we don't do that with abused women, we we don't view them as being rescued.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

You're right. We say, why in the world don't they leave? Yeah, why don't they leave their partner? And we hear that a lot with trafficked individuals. Why in the world don't they leave that situation? Same reason. You are absolutely right. Um, and just like and and it's very similar. Domestic violence, abusive relationship looks a lot like uh, or trafficking looks a lot like domestic abuse. It's very closely linked, different, but very closely linked. And so we do also educate on healthy relationships because our kids need to know what that looks like, what a healthy versus an unhealthy relationship looks like.

Peter 43:46

That seems to make sense because again, different generation. I don't know what it's like in schools now. I always put that caveat, I know a lot during my interviews with people like yourself because I get emails from teachers going, that's not the way it works at all, you jackass. But but What I was taught in school, and I'm I'm Dutch, I was raised in the Dutch education system, and we're fairly liberal in our approach to some. So I got sex ed and I'm 46. So I got it when I was 12 or 13. So that's 30 years ago. So we were, I think, compared to the UK, at least a bit ahead of our time, if we got to sex ed. I was never given relationship advice. As in this is when you say well, does a good relationship look like? I have no idea. I just know that I'm not allowed to beat my wife because I'm not a jackass. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 44:33

Well, yeah, so those things are learned through modeling, right? And so you've got good modeling going on in your life. Great. Now you can have a healthy relationship too. But if all you've been modeled is violence or abuse or destruction, well, that's going to be your normal. And so it's, yeah, we I we weren't taught about healthy relationships either.

Peter 45:02

No, exactly, exactly. It's and I'm I'm not sure whether it's different now. I doubt it somehow. Because you know, these things are slow.

Healthy Vs Unhealthy Online Relationships

SPEAKER_05 45:10

That's a good question. So we have in uh in some of our school systems here, the health classes are just not that strong. And so, you know, there's not a lot of comprehensive health. And I think if there were, it would be very much on the um, you know, SDDs and things like that, you know, important to know and important to understand, but it does not equate to healthy or non-healthy relationships. And so that's where we come in um just to really give that. And with kids, we love it to be very conversational because we are the experts on sex trafficking. And so that is something, yeah. Um, but kids, I like to say, are the experts in their relationships. And so let's talk about what that looks like. Let's do some critical thinking and what are your deal breakers and relationships and what will you tolerate, what won't you tolerate, what should you, what shouldn't you, and all of those things. And I love having those conversations with kids because they get it.

Peter 46:20

Well, and I suppose as well, because again, this is a this is something from from my perspective, and and almost every parent I speak to that has older kids, so say eight to fifteen, right? Right, it is not just one different generation, there's like five generations between them. I mean, I I cannot relate with the life of an eight-year-old. I just can't. The world they grew up in is so fundamentally different from the one even their parents grew up in. And what is, I mean, this is what we find now with the whole transgender debate and the pronoun debate, right? Most of the pronoun debate isn't a debate for 14-year-olds, they're completely fine. They don't give a shit. It's they or he or she, right? They're completely fine.

SPEAKER_05 47:07

It's it's my generation that struggles with well, how many times are you watching an 80s movie and you say, pick up your cell phone? You know, I mean, we live in a very different world, yeah.

Peter 47:20

Exactly. And and I suppose for parents to really have an idea as to what healthy on online relationships, because when you're talking healthy relationships, you also talk in healthy online relationships, I suppose. Um, what they look like is different. From I I I had a chat with someone the other day uh on the podcast, and we were talking about how a lot of parents view social media in the way that my parents view television, as in just don't do it too much, don't spend too much time on the computer, don't won't don't watch too much television. It is bad for you, but it's not right, it's different now. A lot of relationships are online, and a lot of ins are obviously online, right? When we're talking about people who want to do us harm, a lot of the ins, and like you said earlier on, a lot of the information is online. We're talking about social media safety, uh it's not just talking to strangers because most people we talk to, I suppose, would not be strangers anymore by the time we start kids start talking to them, kids have a different how do you as an older say as a parent again? How do you spot an unhealthy relationship a child has online that could then potentially lead into something else? I'm not saying they all do, but how do you spot an unhealthy relationship online when the relationships they have online are so fundamentally different from our generation of I send a text message?

SPEAKER_05 48:55

Well, you know, one of the things we really do talk to kids about at um that middle school and high school age is really online is not where you want to form a relationship. So that's not where you want to meet somebody. And um, we really do want to use our um in-person contacts, you know, schools, churches, whatever it may be, that's where you want to meet people and let's connect there. And um, we can have those relationships in person and on social media. But I think that what, you know, the big, and again, as a parent, it's having those conversations. I encourage parents to do social media checks or to do media checks as a whole. You know, take your kiddo's phone, take their computer, take their media, and look through it. It sounds invasive, but our job as parents is not to make them happy, it's to get them to adulthood and being good, productive citizens, but alive. We want them alive. And so we actually do have a job to do there. And I think when we see something online that looks, you know, it's very similar. Somebody who's controlling, somebody who is abusive in their language, you know, you're an idiot, you're this, you're that, somebody who doesn't respect boundaries, you know, please don't call me past eight and now you're calling a hundred times, you know, those are the types of things we look for that say, gosh, that's not that's not probably the healthiest relationship for you. How does that make you feel? Does that make you feel good about yourself? Does it make you feel bad about yourself?

Peter 50:42

And having those conversations, um, and I think that's what unhealthy online because that again is that ties in with what you said earlier with regards to the being able to say no and that sort of autonomy. I know several um instances of this younger girl lady that I know, she's daughter of one of my clients, that she's not being bullied by certain people in school, but they are always nasty to her online, you know. And and the reason the question I always immediately got why do you not on friend them or block them or whatever? Yeah, because they're in my class. Do you know? I think I have to be friends online with everybody in my class, and that comes back to what you were saying, right? Where as an adult, and I'm I like to think I'm a reasonably healthy adult. Um, I could just go, no, I don't have to be friends with anyone. Yeah, but but yeah, teaching kids stuff is a difficult one.

Why Recovery Rates Are So Low

SPEAKER_05 51:50

You know, that's hard to teach some adults, you know. I mean, I think I think that is a really fabulous thing to talk to kids about and to teach them about that, you know, again, it goes back to that consent piece and it goes back to really having recognizing your value. And if someone's treating you in a negative way, you get to say disengage. In fact, we our acronym for our curriculum is ready to stand. And um, you know, one of that, one of the big things that we talk about is you can disengage, don't engage. So the the E in um I can no, the D. So I'm not gonna be able to do this because I can't see it, but the D is don't engage. So um it's saying, okay, you don't even have to engage with that person, not only don't communicate with the person, but you can actually just remove them, you can unplug. And that is really foreign. I will ask people, what do you do if someone's bullying you? What are some of your options? And the majority of people never say unplug. You get to unplug, you really can. And teaching kids that you don't have to do anything that just because everybody else is doing it, those are really important things.

Peter 53:24

No, and that's I mean, yeah, I mean, to be fair, I could have done with that anti-conversation, but that you were talking about wherever you when I was Granny and I give granny a kiss. No, I really don't want to granny. No, because I don't love Granny, but just because Granny is a she smells of stuff. That's but but it is it it is interesting that it that it comes down to that, and I think that that makes an awful lot of sense. Empowering kids, empowering uh children and and and adults and all that sort of stuff to to set boundaries and and be okay with that, and yet at the same time, like you said, as a parent, not that doesn't mean you have to give your kids complete privacy and all that sort of stuff, that you can never check the social media um because you know the whole invading privacy. I had no privacy when I was a kid, none. That's about exactly. I mean, for me, it's completely fine. I suppose like we always say on this on this thing, I always say your job as a parent is to reason raise a reasonably responsible adult. That is your job. That's right. Um, your job is not to be besties with your with your kid. Um, but your job is also not to be an arsehole. But there is a middle ground there.

SPEAKER_05 54:41

Yeah, yeah.

Peter 54:42

So, no, that's awesome. Empowering your kids, I think that's a message we'll take away from this. I'm not happy. No, did you have anything else you wanted to touch on?

SPEAKER_05 54:51

No, I I think that is great. I would just say if anybody has questions for us, don't hesitate to reach out. We actually um we do travel and we love to do that, but we also have an opportunity um for agencies who want to do this work. We actually sell our curriculum and model and support the agencies for an entire year until they recertify and then we do it again. And so we teach them not only the curriculum, which is our own, but we also teach them how to present it because that's the key with youth. It has to be engaging, it has to be fun, and it has to come with humor. So that is definitely something we would love to partner with agencies across across the world.

Peter 55:39

Yeah, no, that sounds that sounds awesome. Sounds like a good idea because I think to be honest, your whole project, the whole set-me-free project, um, sounds like a very worthwhile uh thing that I definitely think uh a lot of of schools can do with. Uh, and of course, I'm now going to get an email from someone saying we also do this in the UK, Jack has. Yeah, but but it doesn't mean there's room for more. That's that's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 56:07

We want every kiddo, every kiddo to be educated. So important. And and one agency can't do it all.

Teaching Healthy Relationships That Stick

Peter 56:14

And so this is not a competition. This is this is not a fundraiser competition. Awesome. On that happy note, I will press stop records, which is exactly what I did. Um, thanks again to Stephanie for coming on. It is much, much, much appreciated as always. Like I said, she's the CEO of the Set Me Free Project. I will link to all their stuff. You can find her at setmefreeproject.net and all that sort of thing. But again, that's all in the website description as well. Um, I thought it was fascinating. I don't know what you thought. I thought it was fascinating and I loved having her on. Um, in the news this week, as Buddy cleans his paws in the background, um impact of weight cycling on risk of mobility and mortality. Uh, it's a study that came out in 20 uh what's it, 2014. So quite a while ago. Someone said in the news this week, about seven years ago, but I got a lot of emails asking me about diet and whether it is a bad idea to go on a diet too often, you know. And weight cycling is usually you know unintentional weight gain, so you lose weight through dieting and then you gain some of your back and all that sort of stuff, sometimes more than you've lost. And this is really popular these days in the in the half at every size community. The idea that dieting somehow makes you ill. Um, obviously, not eating makes you ill, right? But the idea that dieting and failing to stick to your diet makes you ill is really popular and it is complete hokum, it is just not true. If you find yourself to be morbidly obese and you need to lose a bit of weight for your health, so I'm not talking about aesthetics, but for your health, and then you find that after a while you can't stick to the diet and and you gain that weight back that you haven't failed and ruined your health in the meantime, so it's not healthier not to try and all that sort of stuff. Um study is very clear on this. I mean, it's compared as buddy yawns in the background because he's a little bit of a jackass, isn't he? Yeah, um so basically they've they've had a look at 2030 studies, um where they say um, you know, would that have looked into um unintentional weight gain, uh either in mice or in people, right? These studies have looked at that, and then these guys have just collated all the information and looked at it whether there really is a link, and they have found none, there just isn't one. Um, I will link to the study and I'll tell what we'll do next week. We will do a diet podcast. Um I think that is a good idea. There's a lot of myths kicking about. Any questions you have? Uh, because I say next week, this is the podcast. What was I saying? The 24th. So uh that'll be the podcast. So is that the second, the third, or something like that? Um, you know, I will put something up on the internet now. I might see if I can get one or two guests on, and we're going to dispel five or ten myths. Any questions you have, any any myths you've come across that you're like, dude, let me know what the answer is. We will dispel them, we will go into them. Um, and again, we'll be talking diets for uh eating well for health, right? We're not talking solely aesthetic purposes, right? So there won't be any judgment, there won't be any of that sort of stuff. You know, if you're obese, you're obese. If you want to lose it, you want to lose it. Don't tell people they shouldn't lose it, but just looking at the science of all this sort of stuff, the genuine science, not the pro science, and definitely not the all science is wrong science, right? So that's what we'll do. Um, and that's the podcast for this week, then. Right? Thank you very much for listening. As always, give us a like, give us a review. Uh, if you can, be much, much, much appreciated. Um, we've been getting quite a few uh reviews through, quite a few clickies, and that really is the best you can do for the podcast. Although tell people you're listening, of course. Anyways, I'm yawning my way through this now, so I'm gonna hang up. Here's a new bit of music. Take care of yourself. Bye now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

You want me back, but I'm doing with you. I'm so sorry, and they do something like this.