Vaccines, what EXACTLY are they and how do they REALLY work? With Dr Michael T Myers Jr MD

This week I am delighted to finally bring you the interview I did with Dr Michael T Myers Jr MD about vaccines.

Just to let you know who he is;

Dr. Michael T. Myers Jr., MD was the Chief of Primary Care, Pediatrics, and Practice Transformation for Summit Health New Jersey, one of the state’s largest medical groups, before he retired in 2025. A physician leader with more than 35 years of experience in medical group practice management, public health initiatives, and health care consulting, Dr. Myers has held leadership positions at Partners HealthCare in Boston (now Mass General Brigham), Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, and PricewaterhouseCoopers. 

During the COVID-19 pandemic, he served as COVID-19 scientific consultant to Stonehill College in Easton, Massachusetts, and was appointed Adjunct Lecturer.

His first book, COVID-ology: A Field Guide [CRC Press |2022], is an academic title for college health and science majors, was released in December 2022. Dr. Myers completed his primary care residency at Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and received his MD from Harvard, BA from Johns Hopkins, and MBA from Northeastern University. 

He is now the author of "The Vaccine Bible" an absolute must-have for anyone even remotely interested in kid's health, vaccines and general health.

We are talking EVERYTHING to do with vaccines.

Why the vaccine schedule is what it is (Why are there soo many shots??)

What vaccines really are, and what they do.

What are measles and why is there a flare-up in the number of cases.

Why we see an uptick in the number of vaccine hesitant people? 

How do you asses the risk of a vaccine Vs the risk of an illness?

and much, MUCH more.

As I've been saying on the podcast for weeks, I had a great conversation with him on this and am delighted that I'm able to release this just before his book gets published (tomorrow!) 

You can buy the Vaccine Bible at all your good bookstores, just go click on this link (The ebook is an absolute insane bargain!)

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Playing us out this week, more Dresden the Flamingo 

Transcript

Welcome And Why Vaccines Matter

Peter 0:00

Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert Peter Lap. As always, that will be me. This is the podcast for the 14th of June, 2026. And today I have the absolute pleasure of talking vaccines with Dr. Michael T. Myers, Jr. Um, who is a Harvard-trained physician, former chief of primary care and chief of pediatrics for uh Summit Health in New Jersey. And he is the author of an Otcomman book called Uh The Vaccine Bible, a comprehensive common sense guide to what keeps us safe from the flu, measles, hepatitis, and more, uh, which will be out at the end of July. And I was I was so happy that he could come on. We're discussing everything to do with vaccines. Uh what the illnesses are, so what are the measles? Uh why we really want to get vaccinated against this stuff, the the difference between risk of catching the measles and risk of vaccines and all that sort of stuff, what the myths around vaccines are, and you know, a ton more stuff. Um you're going to absolutely love this interview. If you are what we now call vaccine hesitant, or if you just like to know about why things are the way they are, you like more information, if you want facts, fact-based information, Dr. Myers is really, really the guy to listen to. Um so you know, without further ado, here we go.

Measles Elimination And The Comeback

Peter 1:55

What are the measles, and didn't we get rid of it at one stage? So, how is it making a comeback now?

Dr Myers 2:03

So, did we get rid of the measles? We uh in the United States and other countries never completely eradicated measles like we have done for smallpox. Smallpox is the only to date infectious disease that has been completely eradicated from planet Earth, except in two places. There's these laboratories in Russia and at the CBC in Atlanta. But what we've done with measles in many countries is lessen the ongoing spread. And so certain countries, including the United States, have been able to achieve what is called measles elimination status, which essentially means that you don't have a forward-going, ongoing epidemic for 12 months or longer. We are about to lose that status as other countries have. Canada has lost it, Mexico has lost it, the US is going to lose it because we've had an ongoing measles outbreak in the US that started in Texas since January 2025, and it is still ongoing, producing more than 4,000 cases to date.

Wakefield Myth And Autism Claim

Peter 3:16

So, and it's not just due to the, well, in the UK, this is a very familiar name. Is that due to the Andrew Wakefield effect?

Dr Myers 3:23

Well, I knew you were going to bring that up. So, yes, unfortunately, I will tell you that this probably the skepticism around the connection between the measles vaccine and autism began with this paper that he published and was retracted in 1998, looking at only 12 cases and somehow drawing a conclusion that measles vaccine caused autism. This was later found to be completely discredited. Dr. Wakefield was um under the payment and employ of a law firm. He was essentially disbarred from practicing medicine. And hundreds of studies since then have shown there is no connection between the measles vaccine and autism or really any other um illness. Let me be clear too about this. The measles vaccine itself has caught, when it's given to healthy people, has caused zero deaths. It doesn't cause problems. Before the measles vaccine became available in 1963, in the US at least, 500 people a year died from the measles. And our in our current outbreak, three deaths have basically happened in 2025. What occurs is that for every 1,000 cases of measles, three people will die. And they will either die of pneumonia, respiratory illness, or some serious brain infection. Those tend to be the reasons why people um expire from measles. So measles as an infection is very serious. The measles vaccine is safe. We've been using it since 1963, and billions of doses have been given to people worldwide.

Peter 5:12

So, yeah, because the the the reason I called him Andrew Wakefield is because I don't call him doctor, right? Ah, well, his medical license was straight and deservedly so, and he is a horrible, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um it's a conversation we've had a lot in the UK over, say, the last 10, 10, 15 years or so. Right. I always like to get that out of the way. That's that you know he is very, very problematic indeed. And it's interesting because I I did want to talk to you about this because ever since then vaccine skeptics has really picked up since that point, hasn't it? Like we can't seem to shake it. So we we saw the same during during the COVID thing as well, but people are now oh, the mRNA vaccine changes your DNA and all that type of stuff, right? I mean, we're supposed to, I mean, it's 2026. I assume you were vaccinated early on during the pandemic. We're still alive. And we haven't we haven't grown extra limbs yet or anything like that.

Dr Myers 6:16

Two heads, no, none of that's occurred. So yeah, so I think what the subtext of your question is why is this continuing to snowball?

Why Skepticism Keeps Spreading

Dr Myers 6:24

I mean, this began in the late 90s, and to be honest, I think was accelerated the vaccine skepticism that is by uh the development, the rapid development of the COVID vaccine, right, which actually occurred in like 11 months, which seems fantastic when you consider that most vaccines take anywhere from six to, I don't know, 15 years to develop. Um, and so people were very, you know, scratching their heads about that one. But um, you know, it's a series of things. I mean, it's the timing, it's the internet, it is um, you know, the frankly, the misinformation that is spread and people have access to on the internet. Um, and then people get very dug in and then things become partisan and driven, and people start then, you know, going to the various camps of belief. It's actually why I wrote the book I wrote, because I wanted to kind of clear through this thicket and provide people with some very basic facts about a medical technology that I believe is one of the highest achievements of humankind. That and Artemis II, right? You know, space flight and vaccines to me are some of the greatest things that we can do as humans when we get together and put our minds together and work, you know, as a species to solve a problem, um, and and and really to reassure people that all is well with vaccines and there's no need for the skepticism. That doesn't mean you don't you don't have questions or concerns. I get that part, but yeah.

Peter 8:03

Yeah, no, because that because that is one one of the things I think I had a conversation with someone a few years ago who um was a was a was a client of mine, and and and he's a doctor, and and he's a bit older now. I think he's now 82, 83, something like that. Um and he was saying that he he believed a large part of the problem is that people that vaccines were too good, they've been too successful at eradicating illnesses that we used to be concerned about.

Dr Myers 8:32

I would agree, and in fact, ironically, one of the drivers of vaccine skepticism today is that vaccines have done such a good job at ridding the world of reminders of what terrible illnesses were produced. The people are not living through paralytic polio or having their children die from whooping cough. Or, I mean, we're starting to see what happens with measles, but these horrible diseases used to be part of the fabric of our lives wherever we lived. And that's why vaccines were developed, first for children against infectious illnesses, you know, the world over. Um, so in some, your friend is right, in some ways, vaccines have done themselves a huge marketing disservice because they've done such a good job at keeping people safe from these terrible infectious diseases.

Peter 9:32

Yes, exactly. So, how does obviously so if we don't see people getting ill anymore, and hopefully the measles thing will never take back off again, right? Let's let's hope that we put uh put that back in in the box where it belongs. We can only do that by providing good, clear information like like like what you're doing. So I'd like to touch on that

Immune System Versus Vaccine Risk

Peter 9:59

a little bit. So how how does the immune system because what what I hear a lot of and you heard this a lot during COVID as well from people is the body's immune system will take care of it, right? Right? We don't need a vaccine because I have a good immune system. That was, I mean, and and I blame Joe Rogan for for that one, maybe if you eat healthy, you won't get sick.

Dr Myers 10:22

Right, right. How does the immune system and how does immunity actually work when it comes to so so the problem with that argument is that it equates the risk of infection with any risk associated with the vaccine. That is absolutely not true. So let me just decouple that for a moment and let's stay with measles for a moment, okay? And to your point, you're correct. You know, we have, again, I think next to the central nervous system, the most complicated, complex miracle that has allowed the human species to survive is our immune system. Our immune systems are incredibly complicated and you know, include everything from the skin that covers our body to the acid in our stomach. Those those are part of what's called the active immune system to everything, I'm sorry, the the um the innate immune system, to everything that's part of the antibodies and the immune system cells that are generated when they're exposed to germs, or in the case of vaccines, when they're exposed to parts of germs that then train the immune system to recognize them as real germs should you encounter those in the future. So, what's important in the argument is how do you get to immunity? How do you get to a point of protection without killing yourself or causing unnecessary harm? Let's take measles for it for a moment and let's take the world before the measles vaccine in 1963. And I'm going to speak again from the US perspective. Um, in our country, before vaccines were developed, three to four million, three to four million people every single year were sickened by measles. 5,000 of them would end up in the hospital and about 500 would die. That's what having the that's what a healthy diet and exposing yourself to measles could get you. And in fact, it is getting a lot of people now. The the current outbreak that began in January 2025, nearly 100% of the people getting sick are unvaccinated or undervaccinated. So if you have had measles and survived, or you have the measles momstrabella vaccine, you are not getting sick from this outbreak. So this was to put that in perspective. If you are on, if you're walking around, measles, the virus measles, is one of the most infectious germs known to humankind. It is an extremely infectious agent. It is so infectious that if you're in a room of people that have no immunity either from prior infection or vaccination, um, 90% of people in a room, two hours later, will get sick from the measles. One person can infect up to 18 people, and they can do so before they show any symptoms, no rash, no fever, you know, just walking around, right? So the germ self is extremely contagious. The disease is terrible, it will kill you. Um, and what happens also is that once you get sick from viruses like measles, there's no antibiotic. You know, once you get it, you're gonna have to ride out the storm. You're strapped in, and and you know, we'll do our best to help bring down your temperature, et cetera. But we're not gonna give you penicillin, we're not gonna give you any anti, there is none. And in fact, most vaccines developed are developed against viral illnesses because there aren't any real good antibiotics against those. So that's what that's the world of getting an infection. Good luck with it. Uh, hope you survive, hope you don't have a terrible complication, because it doesn't matter what you eat or how young you are or your immune system or how much you exercise, you are going to be vulnerable to the uh complications and outcomes from that illness. The vaccine risk is minimal. As I said before, measles vaccine does not cause autism. When given to healthy people, it has caused zero, and I mean zero deaths in the billions of doses it's been given. And it continues, its safety profile continues to be studied, you know, year after year after year. So there is no equivalency between getting an infection and then being vaccinated if one's available against one of these terrible illnesses. So that's something that your audience should clearly understand. Joe Rogan and others have done a huge public health disservice by trying to equate or link these two things. There is no connection. Period. You do not want these diseases, you don't want to get polio, you do not want pertussis, you don't want diphtheria. I'm serious. You do not want, you don't want to get COVID or the flu. I had the flu once. God help me. And that's why every year I get the flu vaccine because I felt like I literally was gonna die. I had so much pain. I had a temperature for five days, I couldn't even get out of bed, you know. And I'm a healthy guy, I exercise, I play tennis, I ski, you know, I do things, you know, whatever. But I'm still human and I'm still subject and susceptible to all these various uh germs in the world.

Peter 15:53

So yeah, no, thank you so much for that. I'm completely on board, just for anybody listening to this, I'm completely on board with Dr. Myers here, right? It's I'm not asking this question.

Dr Myers 16:03

I didn't want to get in my soapbox, my soapbox there a little bit, we're kind of preaching to the audience.

Peter 16:08

But anyway, yeah, no, but but but just just in case someone is listening, why is Pete asking these questions? No, I'm it's not because I'm even remotely in the Rogan camp. I am very much trying to get to that soapbox moment because I think it's important that people understand this stuff. Absolutely. Um especially when it comes to newborn children.

Dr Myers 16:31

Ah, yes, right?

Peter 16:32

Because often because what I heard a lot during the again during the COVID, because that is, I suppose, the most recent example, is the is the oh, but I have a good immune system, therefore I am fine. Yeah, but your baby has only just been born with very little to no exposure of the real world. Right. So the vaccine, if anything, becomes even more important for your for younger children, right?

Newborn Immunity And Community Protection

Dr Myers 17:04

Yep. So let me let me springboard and say a couple things there. Um, newborns have immature immune systems that are underdeveloped, and in a way, the immune system is like the muscular system, it needs training and it needs exercise to grow and get stronger. What the immune system often needs are exposure to germs to teach it how to react correctly to develop antibodies and immune system cells to react to the germs. That's why, in some ways, having your children get dirty, have pets, play with others, go to daycare, expose to people in the world is actually a good thing because what you're doing is that you, I know it doesn't sound great, but the kids need to have an exposure to germs to train their immune systems to be healthy. And again, the folks that are talking about their immune systems and how how great and healthy they are, forget in the world we have little babies, we have people that have you know compromised immune systems, either through uh um autoimmune diseases, through congenital issues, through medications they're taking, through their chemotherapy. We have older people. I'm one of those folks. Your immune system begins to weaken with age. And so all of these populations um don't derive the same benefit from vaccines or may not be able to take certain vaccines because of where they are in their life cycle. And so that uh idea of herd immunity or community protection, you know, is very important. And particularly for newborns. I mean, for for for moms and their partners and others around children, you really want to make sure that you're not exposing them to, you know, whooping cough, pertussis, to the measles, to influenza, to COVID-19. Um, these are, in fact, um, these are important vaccinations, or this is an important immunity for new parents to ensure that they have. Um I think it's also to moms that may be breastfeeding, the passive immunity, the the actual benefit that I think babies get from breastfeeding, I'm not taking a stand for or against, but it's it's a known fact that antibodies are passed through breast milk and the vaccines that newborns can't necessarily get themselves, if the mom, this is why we give moms, for instance, pertussis vaccine during the last trimester. We want her to develop antibodies to the um the whooping cough bacteria so that they can pass those antibodies on to the baby. There are reasons why passive immunity works and why it's recommended. So that kind of thing has to be kept in mind that newborns and infants are very different. They come in the world differently. Um, and they're ex and they their immune systems are immature and they need, you know, they need a boost. They need they need some help at the beginning. And they can get that through breast milk, through exposure to other germs. Later they'll get vaccines. I mean, they'll start you know getting vaccinated at a pretty early age. So that that's important to remember.

Why Vaccine Schedules Differ By Country

Peter 20:34

Yeah, because it it is it is one of those that crops up every now and again. Um I remember the last thing I saw, I think it was comedian Jim Jeffries was talking about this. Um about the the the vaccine schedule, right? That that crops up every now and again, you know and like you mentioned right before right before we started, the the vaccine schedules uh around the world are tend to be slightly um slightly different from each other, but borderline you know, eight weeks is when at least in the UK, eight weeks is when you start getting your first, and then at twelve you get your you know, your six and ones, your uh rotavirus, your membis, and and and and all all that type of stuff. Yes um why is that why why can say the MMR vaccine wait until roughly two years? Why are the earth why are the other ones so important to get done sooner rather than yeah?

Dr Myers 21:33

So let me let me pick up a couple things there. Um first of all, germs are germs, no matter where you are on planet Earth. And there is more similarity in the immunization schedules among the UK, the US, and the EU than you would think, particularly for children. At the core, all these children before the age of two are going to be vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, pertopic. Polio, often the flu, because the flu is very serious for young children to get. So at the core, there are going to be a number of vaccines and infectious illnesses. Now, what will be different may be the timing when these vaccines start, the number of doses that are given. But by the age of two years old, pretty much, and certainly by the age when people begin to enter school at five or six, there are going to be all children in these advanced, highly industrialized economies are essentially going to have protection against these infectious diseases. There's some arguments about hepatitis, about rotavirus, about meningiacoccal. Now, there are within countries, there are differences, local differences, um, in terms of the epidemiology of a certain disease state. So in the US, well, let's give one example. I mean, I guess the most stark example might be in African and Indian and South American countries which are tropical climates, there are tick-borne and mosquito-borne illnesses that we necessarily in temperate climates don't vaccinate against, but they will vaccinate against dengue and some other types of mosquito-borne illnesses. So there are local differences in how populations are exposed to germs depending on their climate, their location, etc. The other is that the health systems are different in the United States, the UK, and the EU. That is, in some ways, vaccines protect people against getting illnesses when their health systems can't necessarily step in and provide the kind of care that they may require. Or in the UK, you have a national health system that provides, you know, all these vaccines pretty much, you know, for free and everyone gets them. That's not necessarily the case in the United States, where we have kind of a patchwork healthcare system here. So I think the two things to keep in mind when you look at immunization schedules are the differences among their health systems, how healthcare is delivered, but also the differences in the epidemiology of the germs, what germs are actually more prevalent in a particular population. And that's where vaccine or vaccination schedule decisions might differ.

Peter 24:35

That makes complete sense. Because again, it is something that crops up every now and again when this sort of thing is being discussed. As in, well, if they do this differently in that country, then why should I do it this way here? And I think I think it's it's it's I used to compare it to the old washing chicken discussion. Okay. In the UK, we don't wash you know, in the UK, we don't wash chicken before cooking. Okay. Because we say the the spread of some another can possible some another contagion is significantly worse when you wash chicken and you splash everywhere and all that sort of stuff. Not a single one of my Caribbean friends would eat my chicken if I didn't wash it. Do you know what I mean?

Dr Myers 25:14

They shouldn't be in the cook, they shouldn't be in the kitchen watching you prepare the chicken. That's what they shouldn't be doing.

Peter 25:19

They would just say, if if I if I see you, if I see you not washing that thing, I'm not eating, I'm not eating that thing. And you know, and and there's a whole cultural background to that that people tend to forget. As in in the UK, I might well be right, as in, oh, we should really not wash chicken here because you cook the SML off. But you know, different backgrounds, there's different reasons for for doing things, and especially when you talk about warm climates and all that type of stuff, they have different different uh diseases and all that sort of stuff, and and there's a different priority, and I think it's quite unlike again. We mentioned this before we uh before we started, people from around the world listen to this thing, and I am as I point out on every single podcast, I am just a middle-aged white guy from Europe, and it's very important that I remember that I'm not necessarily always the guy in the right.

Dr Myers 26:15

Right.

Staying Up To Date With Shots

Peter 26:17

So it's interesting in in the list how do people how do people make sure in your kids are completely up to date with their um with their vaccine generals in there is again an and I suppose in in a country where in America at least where vaccine skepticism tends to have even spread to the guys running the health department, um I suppose having faith in your doctor becomes well, having faith in your doctor rather than right, yes.

Dr Myers 27:10

Yeah, I would say that the um confidence and the assurance of is my child up to date rests with your pediatrician or your family physician or other healthcare professional. Their job primarily is in preventing illness, preventive health. Um and and so, and we just were talking about immunization schedules. That's a an important reference guide that the healthcare professional you're working with uh is going to speak to. And you should actually bring this up as well. In fact, in the US, the conversation literally starts before you leave the hospital in labor and delivery, because the very first vaccine in the U.S. you get is actually hepatitis B. Um at least before there was a, I believe, an unwise decision made to remove that as a universal recommendation to something called share clinical decision making in the U.S. But we'll get to that a little bit later, maybe. So I would say the answer is essentially work with your healthcare professional, understand um, you know, their perspective and your concerns, and also that there are going to be a series of this sounds like a lot, but I'll stay with America for a moment. In the US, by the child, by the time a U.S. child reaches the age of six, they will have been immunized and protected against 16 different infectious illnesses requiring about 32 shots over many, many visits following the immunization schedule here. It sounds like a lot, but it's protecting kids against not only a core set of infectious illness, but a series of other uh really terrible diseases. So it always begins with, and I want to say one other thing about measles, for you to be protected against measles. I said this before, protection begins with a two-shot series, 12 to 15 months, four to six years. When you get that two-shot series, at least in the US, you are 97% protected for life, for life against the measles infection. So you are done once those two shots. Now, if you've had less than two shots, or depending on where you're um, you know, where you're born um or what what's going on in your community, you may want to check with and understand a bit more about the measles and your vaccination status. But it always begins with uh having the conversation and looking at your immunization schedule and speaking to your healthcare professional.

What 97% Protection Actually Means

Peter 30:01

And that's not you brought up something really interesting that I think a lot of people get wrong. And uh again, apologies to any medical professionals listening to this, because you know, you know all this stuff, but still, I have some medical professionals that listen to this, and they must be getting exasperated uh by me asking these questions sometimes. Can you quantify that 97 for me? So when you say you are 97 perfect, you're not gonna get means of 97. What does that mean? Because again, and again, this came up during COVID a tremendous amount. Well, but that's three percent, right? But I don't think people understand really what that what that actually means.

Dr Myers 30:43

You can think of it as a probability or uh a risk profile that um let let's let's do this with respect to tossing a coin, uh essentially. Um there's no vaccine that will protect you 100% of the time. Okay. But the measles mom's rubella vaccine is probably the closest to achieving that. So that essentially means that you know you're almost 100% guaranteed not to get this disease if you are exposed to the virus in the wild. Okay, that's what the 97% means. Now, what's the 3% difference? Well, the 3% difference is there are people, again, we spoke to this earlier, older populations, people that have either known immune compromise illness or undiagnosed immune deficiencies. Um, often we don't really know what our own immune systems are capable of because we just we just don't know. So that's where the 3% comes in. It comes in, the uncertainty comes in with what is known in medicine as host factors, things that are referable to you as an individual. These are statistical odds for populations, right? Through scientific study and clinical trials. But for an individual person, you know, that's where that 3% number kind of comes in. So that versus the flip of a coin, I mean, most vaccines are expected to give you better odds than 50-50. In other words, well, then why even take the vaccine or why go to the trouble of licensing the vaccine if I have just as much a chance of getting the disease as not getting the disease once I go through the vaccine experience? I would say that most vaccines generally that um are licensed and used the world over have at least 70 to 75 percent protection. In other words, they're they're shown in clinical trials to basically protect people, you know, that much. And so you have that much less risk when you're exposed to the germ. So does that is that helpful?

Peter 33:02

Does that yeah, no, that is great because I I always could because again, and and this stuff came up in cover one of my surgeon clients and and and now friends, she always said people don't understand risk, right? She said, People just don't. She said, I can tell someone, uh, she's she's a she's a rectal oncologist, right? So she deals with well, she she loves it, it's not a field of expertise. I would particularly choose. She looks at people's bums all day, right? And and and she said, if I say to people you have a 25% chance of severe complications if you do X, Y, Z, people take uh uh uh if if you get this treatment, people say, Yeah, give me the treatment. Right. We said if I put four people in a room and say one of you will have a problem, then all of a sudden it becomes real.

Dr Myers 33:53

Yeah, and and and that really brought it home for me because yeah, you know, I am the world in the world of infections, maybe not so much cancer treatment, but the and we've we've spoken about this, the comparison to make is the risk of getting the infection and the illness versus any risk that the vaccine would create for you. Exactly. That's where the comparator has to really happen. And I'm 99 out of 100 times, it's better to get the vaccine and be protected than to experience the onslaught, uncertainty, complications, and possible death from getting an infectious illness. That's what we're talking about.

Peter 34:38

Because especially when we're coming back to back to measles, when you're talking about three million people catching it, and we do this uh in in quite a few other cases like war and uh all that sort of stuff, war statistics as well. Say if go from three million to I don't know, five thousand end up in hospital, three thousand die, what whatever the number of deaths are always significantly smaller than the number of people with severe lasting complications. And I think we often forget that. So when we hear something like uh I don't know, people who follow me know I I care about this stuff anyways. 70,000 dead in Gaza or something like that, we ignore the injured, yes, and and we do the same with illnesses, it had limbs blown off, yeah.

Dr Myers 35:29

They're they're blind, they can't hear anymore, they don't have a chronic headache, you know. For you, we don't think about any of that. Yeah, you're absolutely true.

Peter 35:37

Exactly. So, what are the because I do want to hammer home the the important the importance of people getting vaccinated? What are the non-lethal sort of things that something like measles can then can leave you with? Because we all know what polio looks like, and it is remarkably unpleasant, but we've at least all seen the pictures of the iron lungs and all that sort of stuff. But what about measles?

Measles Complications And Immune Amnesia

Dr Myers 36:01

So, measles in particular, so a couple things um with measles. So, one thing, and some of this science is fairly new. So, one thing that measles does as a virus, this is called immune amnesia, and it's a fairly new area of investigation with the measles virus. When you are infected with measles, it actually causes your immune system to forget how to respond to other types of germs. Oh, wow. It actually induces a kind of amnestic effect in the body. And that's in fact, that's why people are thought to be susceptible to bacterial pneumonia, which is one of the common complications of measles and causes hospitalizations and deaths, particularly in infants and young children, is bacterial pneumonia, because the virus somehow, and this is being studied currently, um sort of causes the immune system to forget how to make to mount a response to bacterial diseases. So that's kind of one complication, immune amnesia. Um, the pneumonias that can result secondary to measles is a complication. I think the most, the most serious are the brain infections. There are there's an immediate brain infection, there's one that happens months later, and there's another very weird kind of brain infection that can happen years after someone has gotten the measles. So the neuroencephalitis associated with measles is probably the most serious long-term complication. Just like right now, we're discovering that people that have had COVID-19, you know, have long COVID or have uh uh you know chronic fatigue syndrome or other types of neurologic or neuromuscular or behavioral um symptoms that last far after the infection has gone away. So many viruses affect the immune system in these ways that leave lasting impacts far into the future. Doesn't cause death, but makes your quality of life far less uh in terms of what you and then maybe later will actually lead to other more serious illnesses or or or death at at some particular point.

Peter 38:29

Because especially that that immune uh amnesia thing that you're talking about, that sounds very very um concrete. Yes, if if that's right, that sounds like something people can really go, okay, for three years or or five years, or however long that lasts, I can be my child will be, you know, let's relate it mainly to young child because you know it drives the point a little bit. Um my child will be in real trouble. Because if you're talking about you know getting the MMR vaccine or not, by the time you have your second child at 18 months or two years or whatever it is, we all know just how often toddlers and people kids in daycare carry illnesses and disease. They're little germ factories at that age, right? Jesus five. You I don't know a single mom who isn't sick all the time until they get germ sponges, that's what they are. But you're in real trouble then, aren't you? If you're uh if you've had that immunomedia for for for like three years, yeah, you're gonna be home a lot.

Dr Myers 39:38

And you know, let me let me let me let me expand that a bit more. Um, you know, beside the very, let's say, direct impact that these illnesses can have on growing brains, the fact that your child is home at sick, you know, home sick means they're not at school and they're not developing in other ways socially. And so there are studies that are basically showing that chronic illness or infectious illnesses have a direct impact on intellectual development and add to developmental delays. So the the process of sickness itself and the ways that it disconnects, because think about yourself. If when you're ill, you can't read a book or think about a math problem or think about history. You're just you're you're you're miserable, you have a high fever, you're uh you're out of touch, you you don't want to be bothered, you're probably depressed, you're sad. Well, children and infants feel the same way when they're ill. And if you're chronically ill, you know, that's even doubly the case. And so that's something else we don't often think about. You know, we think about maybe the physical disabilities, but maybe not how this impacts people's um intellectual stability, their growth, their development, um, all those things that we take for granted, you know, let's say in healthy children um who are able to move in the world and and and read and and and learn math and all the things that we just you know learn music or play tennis or whatever it is. So those things are also very important.

COVID Hindsight And Expert Uncertainty

Peter 41:15

Yeah, and that that's again, and and I I relate almost everything to the COVID years these days because it's so people still remember it. Um because we see this a lot with kids, COVID babies, so to speak, because kids that were born during the pandemic, that that's their social development at least is is delayed. And right, and the funny thing is not ha ha ha funny, but weird funny, is that I suppose the overlap between people who are outraged at being told to stay indoors during the pandemic, and the kids having to stay at home and all that sort of stuff. And the the the Venn diagram of people who are outraged that their kids have to stay at home and who don't vaccinate their kids is pretty much a circle, right? It's in there's a huge overlap between these two groups. And when you're talking about it, that that is a really odd thing to do if you know that the social effects of your the the or the the developmental impact on your child having to be susceptible to all this stuff is so huge, and yet you are not signing them up or having them take a completely safe safe vaccine. That that there is there's some sort of deep disconnect there, isn't there?

Dr Myers 42:40

Yeah, yeah, and and you know, um this is funny. Actually, the the book that I wrote that's coming out in July, The Vaccine Bible, is actually my second book. The first book I wrote was actually a textbook called COVIDology a field guide, because I got really immersed in as a medical director, helping our doctors better understand the pandemic and what was going on with SARS-CoV-2. But I want to say one thing because we are now six years on and we have the benefit of hindsight. I want to take people back to what it was like in 2019 and 2020. We did not know what was going on. We knew there was possibly this respiratory virus. It hadn't even been completely identified. We didn't know necessarily these people were washing their oranges and wouldn't. I mean, you have to think about the world the way it was at that point. This was an evolving public health crisis for which new information was coming out every day, every hour. And so now it seems to be, you know, like uh against our liberties and anti American to force people to socially isolate and distance themselves. But we did not. No, and the model we were often using is compare what happened in 1918 with the Spanish flu, the influenza worldwide pandemic then. And so we didn't understand, we were just trying to keep people safe from spreading a respiratory germ that we were still learning about. And maybe, yes, governments went overboard and did too much. But now that we do know more about it and maybe even how the world can respond to a pandemic, and now that we have messenger RNA technology and a demonstrated inability to respond to new germs quickly, maybe when and if another pandemic happens, we'll respond better and we'll understand the consequences of isolation, what it means to children to not be around others, you know, how vaccines are reviewed for safety and effectiveness so we can get back to our lives, right? So we don't have to stay locked up in a house. All those very good things that we want as humans, you know, as a species, we need to connect. We're a social animal. That's all great. Um, and maybe we will learn, you know, when this happens, if it happens again at some point in our lifetimes, but you know, we'll we'll see what happens, what occurs.

Peter 45:20

That's an excellent point because I think some like you said, in with hindsight, yeah, this is all very easy. Easy, right?

Dr Myers 45:28

But we gotta put ourselves back at the time.

Peter 45:30

We didn't know any of this stuff. No, exactly. And but it's so easy for lay people like myself to forget this, right? So so we have an idea I I think is only developed over let's say the last 10 years, that an expert in their field is an expert on everything in their field.

Dr Myers 45:52

Right.

Peter 45:52

And and and they have all the answers, even for a completely new thing like what you're what you're talking about with regards to COVID-19, where there's a global pandemic. And like you like you mentioned earlier on, South America and Africa and Asia is different from uh America and Canada and the UK, and therefore something might require a different response. We're all everybody's just kind of figuring it out as as they go along. Um but but we sometimes forget that. We sometimes forget that you know yes, people are genuine experts, but that doesn't mean they have all the answers all the time to newly developing stuff. It's it's um of course that is now the problem is then quite often is well that means they know nothing, right? That then jumps that's the conclusion the the anti-science people would jump to. If you don't have all the answers, you know nothing, which is of course a huge fallacy. But it is it is important, like you said, to remember that in hindsight, yeah, some decisions maybe should have been made differently.

Dr Myers 47:07

Right. Um the the incredible access to information through the internet, now through artificial intelligence, you know, Claude and Gemini and Chat GPT um lulls people into the sense that they can make themselves expert. I mean, there's a reason you go to medical school, you go there there are reasons why I don't know how to fly a rocket ship or a plane. I mean, you know, there are reasons, there are specific training, there's a science, there's a there are techniques, there's a context. Um, I happen to be coming at this, you know, again, as a physician, as a primary care doctor. I'm not an infectious disease specialist or an epidemiologist, although I um went up that learning curve pretty quickly during the pandemic six years ago and and continued to have an ongoing interest in this. But um, and and and again, some context and understanding for how to put all this together and appreciation for how complicated these topics are the immune system, vaccines themselves, technology, healthcare regulations, like all that stuff. None of this stuff is easy, right, at all. Um, but it doesn't mean it's impenetrable, right? We can do a better job at getting at an understanding so that you know we can um basically convince ourselves and relax that things are are okay, you know, everything is fine, we're in good hands. It's better to be in a world now in 2026 than 1956 when we didn't have any of this stuff, you know, polio and and things were still running rampant, and um that was a real, real problem. So anyway, well, polio vaccine came out in 1955, 1956. So it's not the best year, but anyway, you get my point.

Peter 49:02

Yeah,

Information Overload And Doing Research

Peter 49:03

no, absolutely. And and and and that that is why I like books like yours. It's because let's be honest, like what we're talking about. I mean, I occasionally I I used to do this more when I have more time. I will occasionally dissect a study on on the podcast, and something will come in the news, and it'll be a headline in a newspaper somewhere, and I'm like, is this really what the study says? And I will read over the paper. My PhD is in something completely unrelated to the medical field, and therefore, it takes me, I don't know, four or five hours, yeah, to to read a study in a field that and and and then I have to look up other stuff and make sure I get things right. And does this term mean what I think it means? That type of stuff. And I'm working in in a particular field. And I am not confident. Not as confident as someone like yourself who does this for a living, who basically reads studies all the time and therefore is much quicker. Take you half an hour, 40 minutes to maybe see one or two issues with a study, and after like I said, it takes me four hours. For someone who never does this, yeah, and who indeed only gets information through AI or Google Summary, which is even God help us, even worse. Like it's it's it's impossible. I would argue people can't do their own research in air quotes in the way and read a study because there's there's I can find a paper for pretty much any statement you want to back up. I can find right where we can all go on Sci Hub and all that sort of stuff and just go, Well, this paper proves the earth is flat, right? Because there's a paper that was written and maybe maybe even peer-reviewed, right? That type of thing.

Dr Myers 50:47

Well again, I think you're speaking to again the incredible access that we have again as a species to all this data and information, and it is overwhelming. And in the world of vaccines, yes, you can Google all this stuff all you want, and you'll continue to go down rabbit holes and get totally confused because out there there's a lot of information. And so, you know, again, I wrote the book so that I could give the general reader, even a person with no science background, who may even be vaccine skeptic, enough grounding and context and familiarity with terminology and concepts. And then I go through literally every vaccine from anthrax to Zika, right, that would be available to you, or you be you would either hear about or actually ask to give yourself or your children through a whole life cycle, you know, a four or five-page treatment where I talk about, again, you know, the diseases the vaccines meant to prevent, the complications of the illnesses, how the vaccine is made, et cetera. So you come away with a grounding of understanding, well, yeah, now I get why there's so many influenza vaccines, or, you know, maybe I understand a little bit better why COVID-19 vaccine was developed so quickly and what messenger RNA technology brings to the development of vaccines. So that book, my book is written specifically for the general audience. It's also written for their healthcare providers who are continually getting lost. This is a post-natal show. Maybe this is a little auspicious, but I would like my book to be to vaccines what Dr. Spock's book used to be to like baby care back in the 60s. You know, like everyone said, just read Dr. Spock's book. Or when my kid was born, it was Ferber and sleep. Like, just read Ferber. Like, you know about sleep, read Ferber, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Um, for a general audience, gives you the information that you need. And your podcast is doing a lot of that too. I've listened to some of the guests that you've had dispelling myths and rumors, confirming things that are good. There's lots of legends that we have, and and and having subject matter experts on your show to basically say, no, no, no, it's okay. You know, wake the baby up, feed the baby, hold the baby. The baby's fine to hold. Like, you know, you wouldn't think these things, right? Necessarily.

Peter 53:20

So exactly. And having to look into all that stuff and having to try to dissect all that stuff, it takes so much time and so much patience, and so it's such a learning curve, and nobody has time for that. This is a busy world, right? So, what we want to do is like you said, you buy a book, you buy just buy a book because if you don't trust your doctor, that's fine. Here's a guy that wrote a book that has the questions in it that you can ask your doctor. If you're like, Yeah, my doctor is a little bit, I don't know, because he's just trying to convince me something, fine. Read it, get that base level knowledge. Yes, you can have a conversation with your medical professional that you can just say, listen, these are the issues I have, and this is what Dr. Myers wrote about in his book. So I have some questions about this to answer these things.

Dr Myers 54:10

Absolutely.

Peter 54:11

Rather than coming at it from a I am completely unfamiliar with the subject, and I feel you're just trying to convince me to do stuff, right? That I don't necessarily want to do. Um I think the the most potent weapon for for a lot of this stuff is basically education.

Dr Myers 54:31

Yep.

Peter 54:32

And if you're a vaccine skeptic, and and and I know there's lots of people out there that say my child will get these, but they won't get these, and HPV vaccine and something is is a thing that is debated in the UK quite a lot at the moment.

Speaker 2 54:45

Yeah.

Peter 54:46

Um at least this will give you the knowledge as to why you should or should not be concerned about something. Right. What the risks are. I mean, you can manage your own risk a lot better if you know.

Dr Myers 55:01

As long as you know, right?

Peter 55:02

Yeah, exactly. Um, and I think that that is why I think books like this are invaluable. Um, because let's be honest, we're not gonna buy uh we're not gonna buy medical handbooks and and and read them. As much as I would love to read uh covidology and all that type of stuff, I'm probably not going to because because I'm not the audience.

Dr Myers 55:24

Well, you're yeah, you're not the right audience. That's written for like you know, kids that are going off to become epidemiologists or math things for public health. But this book is written for you, the Vaccine Bible. It really is a general read, uh accessible to everyone. Uh, and I even give you in the beginning of the book a a little bit of a primer on some basic biology and vaccinology and a little bit of infectious diseases, talk about healthcare regulations, and then I tell some stories and what's called essentials, you know, baby shots, tweens and teens. We talk about Gardasil. For general audiences, we talk about why you need to get shingles vaccine or pneumococcal vaccine or the flu vaccine, or if you're traveling overseas, why you need Japanese encephalitis or yellow fever, or why don't we have a vaccine against HIV or Zika, which we don't. So all of those are covered, all those stories are covered in essentials, and then later, specifically A to Z and something called the Vax Facts. That's how the book is structured, right? So you can look something up quickly, go back and learn a little bit more, read a whole story, go back to vax facts. You kind of like take whatever adventure you want to go on with the book itself. I like books. I think even in the age of Claude and AI and the internet, there is something delightful about the tactile feel of having a book, looking it up, reading it, you know, underlying it.

Why Books Still Beat Rabbit Holes

Dr Myers 56:52

I know it sounds very boomer and very old school, but you know, I think they're not like that.

Peter 56:58

I'm telling you, the kids will get back to it.

Dr Myers 57:01

The kids are gonna come. The kids are gonna come or back to all little kids will come too and get these books, right?

Peter 57:07

But because because because that that's that's how it goes. I I think you know, I I personally I I and again, everybody who follows me on socials will on social media will notice I'm only active on threads, but it's I am massively opposed to like LLM, uh generative AI, and all that sort of stuff. I think it brings no good. Um I'm even at the point now where I'm opposed to Netflix, and I think we should have kept Blockbuster for the experience because everybody remembers going out to the video store on a Friday night, picking out a movie, and you know, since you mentioned that, I went to the very last blockbuster on Earth.

Dr Myers 57:46

It's in Bend, Oregon. You can Google it. I was there last year skiing with some friends in Bend, and I went to the Blockbuster video, and it's still there. So just this the only one on planet earth that said it's is that the one that John Oliver sent his some something or that he may he may have, I don't know. I mean, it's the only one that still exists, it's still it's it's as an experience.

Peter 58:10

People who've never been to to a blockbuster, they don't understand the experience.

Dr Myers 58:15

It even has that smell of the popcorn or whatever.

Peter 58:18

Nice. You can't argue with that, and like you said, you get that from books, and uh and I've I think the structure that you get from books, because you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take myself on the same journey as your book would take me. I'm not gonna go from A to Z. I'm just gonna go, I'll dabble in as in if I'm behind a computer, I might look up one thing, but then I forget about it for three years and I still haven't learned anything.

Dr Myers 58:44

Yeah, like so, you know, you may you may have a parent out there who has a newborn, but you know, they may also have an eight or nine or ten-year-old, and they're on their way to the pediatrician to have a discussion about Gardasil, human papillomavirus, and you know, they've got like 20 minutes, so they got the vaccine Bible. They can go to human papillomavirus, they can read four pages, and then go to the pediatrician visit with the kid in hand and the 10-year-old and have an understanding of like, well, what this vaccine is a cancer-preventing vaccine to prevent your child from getting a number of different horrible cancers later in life. So that's an example of how you could use the book.

Peter 59:26

Yeah, no, exactly. And and that sounds absolutely amazing, to be honest.

Dr Myers 59:30

On that happy note, we've covered a tremendous amount of I cannot believe all this time has gone by. I know it's insane. Like nothing.

Peter 59:39

Was there anything else that you wanted to touch on?

Dr Myers 59:41

Like I think we covered a lot, but well, let me let me give a little, I mean, you know, um truth

How To Preorder The Vaccine Bible

Dr Myers 59:48

and advertising. So um if people want to find the book, because it's it'll be available, it drops on Tuesday, July 28th, 2026. People can go to Dr. Mike Myers, D-R-M-I-K-E-M-Y-E-R-S.com, drmikemyers.com or thevaccenebible.com or vaccinebible.com. All those will bring you to a website where you can pre-order the book on uh Barnes Noble Bookshop, Amazon if you wish. Um, it won't be shipped to you until July 28th, but at least you can place your order. And knowing that the book is written for you and will give you the very basic information you need about any vaccine you're going to be exposed to or have questions about um wherever you live um on planet earth, hopefully. So there you go.

Peter 1:00:41

No, absolutely. And like I always say when I have an offer on to clarify to Melissa's, pre-sales are huge. Yes. For authors. So order it if you think I will order this when it comes out, and obviously I'll put the podcast out before then, and I'll I'll send a reminder when the book comes out, and the links will be in the podcast description. But order it now. You have no idea how much of a favor you're doing the offer if you order early, if you know you're going to order it anyways.

Dr Myers 1:01:08

Peter, thank you. Thank you. You're you're you're giving me goosebumps, you're gonna make me cry because absolutely authors need pre-orders. This is very important to our work.

Peter 1:01:17

It is absolutely huge. Well, I'm not happy not to I will press stop record here.

Speaker 2 1:01:22

All right.

Host Wrap And Final Takeaways

Peter 1:01:38

Exactly uh exactly what I did. Thank you so much to Dr. Minus for coming on. I mean I love conversations like this. I love talking to people who are excellent educators on the subject of tons of experience and tons of expertise. It it doesn't get better than than uh than than this for me. Um like I said, Dr. Myers' book is coming out at the end of July. Pre-sales are everything for uh for offers, they're so important. Um so if you want to buy it now, and then you know, when it arrives on July 28th or 29th, um, you know, it'll be like uh like a present. Right? Like a little happy, happy accident that appears in your um in your mailbox. This is the sort of book that I think a lot more people should have, uh a lot more parents and parents to be should have on their bookshelf. Like I said, it's an excellent reference guide and all that sort of thing. I think this is one of those useful books that that parents could really do with. So the link is in the podcast description. I'll remind you again nearer the release date and all that sort of stuff when it comes out. And again, I do not get a penny from any recommendations I make, right? That's very important to me that you people know that you people know this. I don't say this for money. Right? So check that out. In the meantime, Peter at Healthy Postnatal Body, if you have any questions or comments or whatever, send me a little email. And of course, here's a new bit of music, and I'll be back next week. Right? You take care.

unknown 1:06:00

Yeah.