FTV Stop the yelling Interview with Child Behavior Specialist Laura Reardon

 FTV On this week's episode I am joined by Laura Reardon

Laura Reardon is a certified Child Behaviour Specialist, she is trained as an Emotion Coach, Childhood Anxiety Coach, and Parent Coach, and she’s the founder of Laura Reardon Coaching.

Laura helps parents who feel frustrated, worried, and unsure how to respond when their kid reacts to their big emotions like anger and anxiety and their big behaviors like lashing out and shutting down.

We talk about a wide-range of things.

What is Emotional Intelligence?
Can it be taught?
Why do children respond differently to big events happening in their life than adults do?
Why is it completely normal for kids to "over-react"?
How can you help your kids process the big emotions better?
Why it makes sense to treat every child differently and take a personalised approach to raising kids.

You can find Laura in all the usual places.

Her lovely website where you can find a tonne more information.
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Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have any questions, comments or want to suggest a guest/topic       

 Playing us out; "garden song" by Shimmer 

Transcript

From The Vault Setup

Peter 0:00

Hey, welcome to the Healthy Post Natal with the podcast. With your post Natal Expert Peter Lap. That, as always, would be me. This is a podcast for the thirteenth of July, 2026. And I'm bringing you an unexpected From the Vault episode because you know my Mondays are going down the drink. I have a new friend, Charles Charlie, who sits panting in the background. I don't know if I mentioned him a while ago. But uh he's uh he's interfering with my mojo scheduling stuff. So From the Vault this week, fresh episode next week, and a fresh episode the week after. From the vault this week. Help your children with big B emotions and stop shouting. Stop the shouting, shouting from your kids, shouting from yourself, all that sort of stuff. Interview I did a while ago with child behavior specialist Laura Reardon. Um she is she is phenomenal. I really like this. I did this ages ago. We're talking emotional intelligence, uh, why children respond differently to big events happening in their life than adults do, why it's completely normal for kids to air quote overreact, and how you can help your kids process the big emotions uh better. You're gonna love this episode, you're gonna learn so much. I definitely did. So without further ado, here we go.

Defining Emotional Intelligence

Peter 1:39

So, what do you mean by emotional intelligence?

Laura 1:44

Well, I work with parents in managing the emotions and behaviors in their family, and essentially what that means is that I'm helping them develop the skills of emotional intelligence. And my definition of emotional intelligence is having an awareness of your feelings and your needs and an ability to respond effectively to those feelings and needs within your relationship with yourself, think um, you know, worry, negative, self-critical thoughts, and in your relationships with others, think endless arguments that solve nothing.

Peter 2:22

Ah, the endless arguments that solve nothing. I'm thinking that that is something a lot of parents, especially of slightly older children, will be uh somewhat familiar with that concept. Um we quite often, when we hear things uh about emotional intelligence and EQ and IQ and all that sort of stuff, how much of that is nature and how much of that is nurture? As in, can you teach your four or five-year-old and help them along a little bit with so that by the time they become 12, 13-year-olds, they're not little psychopaths.

Laura 3:03

We we do all have um a different level of um, let's put it this way, it comes more easily to some of us than it comes to other others of us based on a whole variety of factors, including our genetics and our life experience. However, that said, um everyone can learn the skills of emotional intelligence, and everyone can um get better at it and to the benefit for themselves and those that they're in relationship with.

Peter 3:37

Right, cool. So what how how can parents help their child along when they're say four or five? Because everything has to be. I I'm a big fab believer in the idea that you start as young as you possibly can with all that sort of stuff, um, to create the adult you would like your child to be, right? Uh I see parenting very much of along the lines of your job, so to speak, as a parent, is to raise a somewhat complete human being, if you can. Uh and by complete human being, I mean someone who functions well as an adult. Um so what how how can parents kick off that process to help their kids along and to improve their own relationship with children, of course.

Laura 4:27

Yeah, yeah, and that's the great thing is as we learn um these skills, um, they for sure have an impact on our relationship with our children, but really uh the skills of emotional intelligence have an impact on every relationship, whether it be with our partner or our work relationships, our friend friendships. Um so it really behooves us to um, you know, consider um, you know, consider emotional intelligence as um something of value. I think our culture oftentimes values um academic intelligence um as having more value than emotional intelligence. Um and so I think it's something, and by our culture, of course, I'm talking about the United States, um, but um, you know, I think that it's something that really has a big impact on our, you know, ourselves personally, our peace within ourselves and our peace within our relationships.

Why Regulation Gets Hard

Laura 5:25

But back to your question, I think that the I think that what I find to be helpful for people, um, before we start talking about how can we um, you know, set ourselves up for success and set our kids up for success in learning to manage our emotions and our behaviors more effectively, it really helps to understand why that thing is hard to do. And so um that has a lot to do with the study of neuroscience and um the fact that our nervous system, which is essentially our brain and our uh body and how they communicate with each other, um, and our nervous system has an unconscious impact on our behavior. And what that means is um that when our nervous system perceives safety, we're in a regulated state. So when we're in a regulated state, we feel calm, we feel flexible, we feel open to listening and learning and problem solving. Um, but when our nervous system perceives danger, uh we become dysregulated and um our our you know nervous system triggers our threat response, which is our fight, flight or freeze response. And so um, when we're dysregulated, we're no we're no longer complexible, open to listening, learning, and problem solving. We're defensive. And so for our ancestors, this was really the difference between life and death, this you know, fight, flight, or freeze response. But in today's day and age, um, although it still certainly gets triggered in life-threatening experiences and can be an important part of our safety, so really an important part of our brain. Um, but our our nervous system is not able to identify the difference between an actual threat and a perceived threat. So, more often today, our fight, flight, or freeze response gets triggered when um we're feeling big emotions or when we're experiencing unmet needs, our core needs, such as um, you know, for food, sleep, um, connection, downtime. Um, and so um, you know, when our child, for example, gets the the blue cup and they expected the green cup, or when our older kid um, you know, needs to, you know, shut off their video game because it's time to go do their homework, um, you know, they're gonna experience really strong feelings and reaction to that. And so when our kids experience strong feelings and reaction to everyday experiences that are certainly not life-threatening, certainly not dangerous, and yet our nervous system cannot distinguish that difference. And so we still get triggered into our we still get triggered into our fight, flight, or freeze response and respond as if we needed to protect ourselves, uh, respond as if we were, you know, experiencing a real threat. And so what happens for our kids that have um, you know, tend to go into a fight response, that's when you're gonna hear the yelling, screaming, hitting, being mean with their words, um, you know, being disrespectful and defiant, all that kind of stuff. And then for our kids who go into a flight response or um a freeze response, those are our kids who are going to um withdraw physically or emotionally. And so I refer to it as lashing out or shutting down. And added to that, um the part of their brain that's going to one day be helpful to them in recognizing, oh, hey, you know, I'm actually not in danger right now. And there's a more effective way I can respond to this emotion or to this need, um, that part of their brain is not fully developed until their mid-20s. And so, as hard as it is for us as adults to manage our emotions and behavior, which it is, it's way harder for our kids. And for and for us as adults, um, yeah, we do have a fully developed brain, but many of us um were never taught to manage, you know, how to manage our emotions and behavior. And so our kids start screaming or hitting or being mean with their words. And we think um, you know, we think our kid is mean or selfish. We could think our kid is purposefully acting out in a way to get their way. We think there's something uh wrong with them. We think we should, they should know better or do better. Um and when these happens, when when we have these thoughts, they trigger big emotions in us. And so we too get triggered into a fight, flight, or freeze response. And then added to that, as parents, we often are not getting enough sleep or enough alone time or enough connection time with other adults. And so we're more easily triggered. Um, but when we look at behavior through the lens of neuroscience, we have um more understanding that, in fact, in many cases, our kids' behavior is not rooted in um in bad behavior. It's rooted in an automatic and unconscious reaction to a perceived threat, and they don't yet have the um, you know, the brain development, the skills, or the capacity in that moment to respond to their emotions more effectively.

Lashing Out Or Shutting Down

Peter 11:24

Yeah, because that's fascinating because you mentioned a lot there, and that that that was the the main thing that that jumped out at me. So you're saying a lot of their behavior, a lot of their lashing out or or shutting down, is much more primal behavior, so to speak, to use a very you know, masculine, nice, nice word. Um much more primal behavior than it is a chosen behavior by the child. As in the child doesn't necessarily choose to behave that way, it kind of is just much more instinctual, and once you're down that road, and I I I think I spoke to uh other uh people about this before. Once you are down that road where your inner monkey, so to speak, is driving your behavior, it is for for someone who's not yet an adult, it is remarkably difficult to pull that back by the human because they have it's like you said, it's it's they haven't developed that skill yet because they physically haven't developed uh their physically their their brain isn't developed enough yet to actually have that skill when they're that far down the line, so to speak.

Laura 12:34

Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true.

The Dog Whisperer Parenting Lesson

Peter 12:38

Because it's uh it's I will uh and I drives listeners nuts when I do this, which is one of the reasons I do it. Um I remember watching César Milan, the the uh dog whisperer, right? Uh one of your um and he he only deals with aggressive dogs, right? Uh that that's mainly what you misbehaves and and and and very aggressive dog. Wonderful, wonderful guy. I love that program. Uh because I've got a few dogs and I needed to learn how to behave.

Laura 13:06

Uh yes, I do as well.

Peter 13:08

Yeah, and then and then you know that certain when a dog reaches, as Cesar also used to say, when they reach an intensity of a seven on a scale of one to ten, there are seven intenses. So whether that's being focused on a treat, being focused on the ball, or being focused on another dog, you cannot recall that if your energy and and your command is only at a level three, right? The because you're simply much less the you need to override that seven, right? With uh with a dog. So you need and by override I mean distract. Now, quite often the the mistake that people make when dealing with dogs and dealing with kids, because uh it's it's it's it's when dealing with each other as well, is that they do they think that matching that energy, matching that intensity is done through anger or loudness rather than just a distractive behavior. I see what I if if one of my dogs is at the other end of the field, so to speak, and I've got a couple of big fields around the house where I walk my dogs, and one of his puppy friends is is out there and he's dead excited to see them, so he storms over there. If I want him to come back and I just shout, buddy, buddy, he's not coming back. If I angrily shout buddy, he might well come back, but he'll be scared. If I, however, very excitedly and happily shout buddy, then he thinks there's something more exciting than what he has on the other side, so he comes storming back in a very happy way. Now, in the first instance, I'm not going to get my dog back, in the second instance, I'm gonna get a scared puppy back, and only if I behave in that third way am I going to get the result I want, which is a happy, a happy dog. And it's and the this is why I love doing this, because like I said, I will get emails. Um children are not that dissimilar on a primal level. Uh, when you're dealing with an angry child, when you're talking about big emotions, when you're dealing with an angry child, you shouting back at them quite often will have the opposite, or at least not the desired effect, not the effect that you are looking for in the long run, which is a happy child and all that sort of stuff, right?

Laura 15:36

Yeah, in in fact, um that's exactly right, because um although it is um our instinct, as you say, in many ways to respond to their big behavior by um by lashing out, by yelling, by shaming, by blaming. And yet um the reason that can be really ineffective is because what happens is when we respond in that way, they um what happens is they either they're already in a threat response, they're already in a fight, flight, or freeze state. And so that only serves to escalate the storm and the behavior gets bigger. Um, or what happens is um they are they happen to not be in a fight, flight, or freeze state. Let's say, you know, you you're the one that sort of um started in that place based about maybe on your own unmet needs that particular day, running on no sleep, stressful really day at work, didn't have time for lunch, and then your kid wasn't in that state, but now they are.

Peter 16:44

Well, yeah, because kids pick up on your energy, right? Everybody always does.

Co-Regulation Starts With Us

Laura 16:49

Yeah, and that's why what you're talking about is why really when where we need to start when we want to start the conversation about how do we have an influence on our children in um helping them once they're in that really agitated state, how do we help them uh regulate? How do we help them calm down that in the moment? What do we do? And it has to start with us, um, because as you said, um our you know, our behavior will have an impact on our kids' behavior. And uh like with dogs with kids. And so um for us as parents, um when we we we want to start, we always have to start with ourselves.

The ABCs For Keeping Calm

Laura 17:36

And so when we're in a situation when we recognize we're feeling triggered and um we're feeling like lashing out or shutting down, um what I teach the parents that I work with is a strategy called or a tool called um the ABCs for um, you know, the ABC is for keeping calm. And so A is for just what I was talking about, awareness, you know, practicing becoming more aware, and it's a process, but practicing becoming more aware of that moment right before we lash out or shut down. Um and when we first start practicing this, the awareness might come to us, you know, uh when we hit the pillow at night and we have the first moment to think and we're like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 18:29

We all know that feeling.

Laura 18:32

Or the middle of the night when we wake up and again we have that first moment of a clear mind and it quickly fills with you know what what happened that day or what's on our mind. And so um, as we practice, and so that's why I use the word practice because I recognize it's not like, oh, you just do this, you just press the button and you start doing this. It's a process of learning, like anything. But as we start practicing, noticing that moment before, and what can help us clue into that is paying attention to our thoughts. As I said, it's the thoughts that we can have as a parent that can really trigger us, our thoughts that there's something wrong with our kid or something wrong with us. Um, we can pay attention to our feelings when we're feeling big feelings because we know that's going to trigger our fight response. But something that might be less well known and is potentially the most important thing to pay attention to is to pay it to pay attention to our body sensations. Because in fact, um our feelings um start as body sensations before they travel to our brain where we can identify a name for them. And so um we can start paying attention to where we feel our feelings in our body. And for some of us, it's you know, it's often a tightness. And for some of us, it's within our stomach. For some of us, it's, you know, in our chest or in our throat. Um, or for some, it's getting a headache, uh, clenched fists. Um, you know, it's it's all highly personal and individual. And so um we can just start um, you know, practicing noticing that moment. And when we notice that moment, tune into our bodies, where are we feeling that? Because everything starts with awareness and those body sensations are going to be really our first clue into awareness. Um, and then once we do notice that we're feeling triggered, um, we can go to B, which is breathe. And we all know that breathing deeply and you know, kind of taking a deep breath through your nose, exhaling through our mouth, uh, letting our exhale be longer than our inhale, and letting our muscles relax as we're exhaling. That can really be a powerful um way of um calming ourselves in the moment. Um, you know, certainly there are things we can do outside of the moment that can really uh benefit our ability to feel calm, you know. And it's again different for all of us journaling, going for a walk in nature, going to the gym, uh, meditating, endless list of ways to incorporate proactive strategies in our daily life to um, you know, keep keep our calm. Um, but this is an in-the-moment strategy. And for those who um, you know, because breathing works for a lot of us, it works for me. It does not work for my daughter. And so um there's lots of other um ways that we can calm ourselves in the moment. And again, it's about tuning into yourself and experimenting and figuring out over time what works for you. But some quick ideas include um putting your hand on your heart to kind of ground yourself into the present moment, um, taking a sip of water. Um, for some people, movement is really important. So you can even, you know, I work with some parents who literally will like jump in place or do a quick couple of jumping jacks. Um, you know, just because really what they need to do is move, or even like if you need to be more subtle in the moment, just kind of like doing a stretch, like stretching your arms, or even when we stretch, when we put our um hands behind our back, it naturally opens up our breathing. And so that actually those two movements together can be really effective. Um, so we can get creative. So we can think of the B as symbolic of whatever um quick strategy can help you to calm in the moment. Um, and then um C is for considering our thoughts. You know, once we um notice we're triggered and we can do something to calm ourselves a little bit in that moment, we can then reintroduce logic and we can think um or or consider you know, our thoughts, and we can consider if we're having judgmental thoughts, thoughts like um, I'm a bad parent because I yelled, or my kid is a bad kid because they made me yell. And um, you know, we can have an awareness that our thoughts influence our feelings. Um, just like again, as parents, when we have these negative thoughts, they create big feelings in us, and our feelings influence our actions. So when we can stop, when we can stop calm ourselves enough, um, and and for some of us it might be a one breath, and for others of us, it might be a lot longer than that, um, require a little break. Um, but when we when we're ready to then introduce our logic to it, we can um consider our thoughts and then we can consider more compassionate thoughts. So we can consider um the thought that parenting is really hard, and it makes sense that I feel like yelling. And we can consider that being a kid can be really hard, and to become curious about I wonder what what big feelings or unmet needs might they be experiencing in this moment that's triggering this behavior. Um, and so that's my in the moment ABC method for you know, start noticing when you notice, take a breath or whatever calms you, and then consider your thoughts. If you're having judgmental thoughts, consider new thoughts, consider uh more helpful thoughts, more compassionate thoughts. Um, and this can really help to center us in the moment because again, back to what you were saying about um how we are with our kids has an in big impact on how our kids are with us. So again, it all it all starts with us.

Peter 24:51

Yeah, and that's a fascinating one because it's I suppose when you're especially when you're dealing with some with a frustrating situation. So it doesn't, I suppose it doesn't really matter much whether your child is retreating or uh is becoming say shouty or or uh unverbally slightly more assertive or aggressive or uh sounding more frustrated. Your initial it's very easy when I've when I've had a really shitty day, so to speak, when I've had a crappy day, and like you said, I've skipped lunch and my blood sugars are really, really low. Uh because I don't really do breakfast either, so all of a sudden haven't eaten for like 16 hours and I get cranky. Um then it's very easy for me to think that that the situation that I'm frustrated about uh or discussion that I find frustrating, that I in that moment have to get my point across as to why say child is not allowed to go out, and that becomes a whole thing, he's not allowed to see their friends or or or whatever. Then in that moment, getting them to accept that they cannot do it. I can only do that if one parties frustrated and I'm frustrated, I can only do that in that frustrated tone of voice. Whereas I suppose what my initial goal should probably be is not to get my point across. My initial thing should probably be try to de-escalate the situation uh in the way that any good police officer would, right? Just oh let us all calm down a little bit first, yeah. Good thing away, and and then you know what's really going on here, because that is essentially what you're saying, isn't it? Figure out what's really going on there, what basic need has not been met, and that could well be mine, it could well be the other persons that that we're dealing with. Uh because I do realize that, for instance, if I walk around the house all grumpy and cranky, and my wife sees me uh sees me pottering about, muttering too much to myself or about things that aren't going my way. Um I need to have a certain level of awareness and go, I actually haven't had lunch yet. And as soon as I've had something to eat, I feel significantly better, and my grumpy mood is lifted. Um I suppose so so it it but or it could it well indeed be the other person driving my frustration, but then I still have to ask myself, is my frustration is that is it useful? Is it going to get me to uh is it going to get us to a conclusion that we're both happy with? So so to speak, or if even if one person is unhappy, so child is not allowed to go out and is still not allowed to go out, even if they're unhappy with that situation, will they at least be accepting of it without kicking the door, kicking the door in, so to speak? Um but like you said, it does require a level of awareness in the moment, doesn't it?

Laura 28:09

Um yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you know, awareness is always the the first step because without awareness, we can't make a different choice. Um, and so it is, yeah, it's a really um important first choice. And you know, you bring up an interesting point because um, yeah, it really can vary so much with the circumstances. There might be times when um we really have the opportunity, um, you know, for example, in our adult relationships, um, or if we're struggling in our just ourselves, we're not even in it, you know, with somebody else at the moment, you know, but we're we're struggling with managing our feelings. And you know, as you said, we're feeling really cranky and maybe having some negative thoughts or what have you. And um there might be times when we can be more reflective in the moment and really have that opportunity to sit back and think, huh, what do I need right now? You know, what's what's going on? What are, you know, what's triggering this? You know, am I having big feelings? You know, what did I forget to eat lunch? You know, and then we can reset and say, you know, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go have some lunch and then just see if I feel better. Um, and then there are times when it's, you know, a highly stressful moment with, you know, three kids all yelling, and you know, we just simply don't have that opportunity for reflection in that moment. And so um in those circumstances, you know, we can at a later time, you know, maybe that time when our head hits the pillow, or you know, maybe, maybe um whenever we have a moment in the day, we're driving in the car or waiting, waiting for our kid to come out from practice, and we can reflect in that moment, like what was, you know, what was going on for me? Um, you know, am I getting enough sleep? Am I getting, you know, enough downtime? Am I getting enough connection? And um, or, you know, is there um, you know, is there is there a problem that needs to be solved? Is there, you know, more support that I need? Or is there some ongoing thing like, you know, that triggers us into um fighting with each other every day? You know, we can just become a little bit reflective of more uh longer term um solutions that we can put into place. But so, so that's a really important part of setting ourselves up for success and managing our emotions. There's there's that in the moment stuff, there's that, you know, ABC's um stuff, and then there's that um reflection, um, you know, um, what are our emotions and needs um that we're struggling with and what changes can we make in our environment, what supports might be needed to set us up for success the next time in, you know, being being more able to manage our emotions and behavior more

Let Feelings Exist Without Fixing

Laura 31:03

effectively. And the other thing you mentioned too, I didn't want to forget to comment on is you talked about another really important thing, which is um when our child is feeling like really big feelings, really negative feelings perhaps, towards um a limit that's been set, um, and the importance of uh for allowing those feelings. And often, again, I when I refer to our culture, I'm referring to the United States, but often in our culture, we um we don't value the importance of feelings. Uh, we value logic um and we don't so much value feelings. Um and so um what happens is um when we're experiencing or when our kid is experiencing big feelings, it's often our instinct to shut it down, to make it go away, either by uh minimizing it, oh you're fine, or um by making it going away by solving the problem, oh, here's that cookie, fine, just have the cookie. Um or um, you know, or by punishing, you know, go to your room, come come down when you can be calm, go to your room. And what happens um when we um act in that way, when we respond in that way, what happens is our kid, we send the message to our kid, I can't handle your big feelings, and I don't think you can handle your big feelings. So we just need to make them go away. And when we do that, we develop um, we we create emotional fragility in our kids. They think, oh, emotions, if I'm feeling a big emotion, like I can't handle this. And then so that only supports their response of lashing out or shutting down because it continues, it it like reinforces the unconscious, it re consciously reinforces our unconscious reaction of responding to a big emotion as if it's a threat. And so what we can do instead um to create emotional strength and to help our kid become less reactive and more accepting of their big emotions is we can be present to their emotions in a way that is um, you know, just very um accepting of all emotions and um and not trying to make them go away and just sort of being being present to them in um and helping and really encouraging them to feel their feelings because it's in feeling our feelings that we can ultimately move that they can move through us and we can move past our feelings. And it's when we when we shut down those feelings that um they stick inside of us and then they can build up and build up and build up and then you know ultimately explode out. So there's all sorts of good reasons why, you know, we want to practice learning to be comfortable with uncomfortable emotions. And that can be really hard for us who for those of us who were raised in families where um emotions were not accepted and where emotions were shut down. It can be really a trigger for us. And um, you know, in those situations, something that can be helpful is to reflect on our past and just sort of make sense of it, you know, reflect on, you know, what what was going on in our family as it relates to feelings and um, you know, how did that how does that impact me today? And just having that awareness and again, compassion, you know, like I get it. It makes sense that my parents reacted to my emotions in that way because that's the way their parents reacted to their emotions. And so when we can make sense of the story in a compassionate way and with a recognition about how it impacts our present day, and then we can make a choice. We can choose, well, how do we want, how do we want to respond to feelings in our in my present family? Um, you know, going through that process can help to free us um from being impacted by our past and and be more free to act in the way we want to act in the present.

Peter 35:29

Yeah, because that's a fascinating thing. Because I do come across this a lot with people when I'm when I'm training and when when they're around their kids and all that sort of stuff. I am 48 years old. So I am indeed exactly I'm your typical northern white man with think you know, if if I were born in America, think Boston level sort of think think good will hunting. Then there you go. Think that think that Bill Burr level anger that that that that just suppress the emotion, bottle it up, have a cold shower, and that sort of thing. Exactly. That that is pretty much that is a culture I was raised in. You did not feelings were not feelings were were for, and I know this is we don't say them, feelings are for sissies. As Schwarzenegger used to say, they're for Nancy girl, not Nancy boys. Right? The feelings are just not that that wasn't even a thing. You're you're either you're you're you're a man or you're not, and and you know, if you're if you're gay, then you can have feelings, other than that, just bottle it up like a man and go do some woodwork or something like that. Um and we are aware, of course, that that is not healthy anymore, right? Uh, we are everybody who's 48 years old now. I hope to Christ has realized that that was maybe not the healthiest approach to take to raise responsible, healthy human beings. Because I know that from myself. As like I said, a 48-year-old who took until he was like 36, 37 to figure out that hey, maybe, maybe being this angry all the time isn't really that productive. Um, but to pass it on to your kids, what what we hear a lot is ah, but our parents used to do X, Y, Z. Or I could never get away with talking like that to my parents. You know, when when a 12-year-old says, and and and I do think kids these days are, let's say, more eloquent in their uh expressing their frustrations, and they know more swear words than than we used to, but we we were probably more along those lines than our parents were, and our parents talking to their their grandparents, you know, back chat has always uh escalated a bit as well, with uh through through the generations you got away with more and more. But it is the idea that oh, I would never be able to speak to my parents in this way, and therefore I will you and the solution to that is being stricter or as strict as my parents used to be, because that's always the solution we jump to, isn't it? Um, I never swore at my parents. If my kids start swearing at me, then clearly I am missing a trick here, and what I should be doing is installing the same level of discipline as my parents used, and before you know we're back to the 1920s and the 1930s and 40s, and we start smacking our kids again, right? It's actually actually it it is really simple. Uh, is is smacking your kids still legal in Massachusetts? Because I know every state might be different, but that's such a good question.

Laura 38:52

I I would assume no for Massachusetts.

Peter 38:54

Yeah, because because it is it is it is banned in the UK, right? Um, but when the ban came in, as in outright, you're not allowed to do it. The amount of parents that were in uproar about it, as in well that there was a surprising number of reasonably well-functioning adults uh in their say 40s, uh 30s and 40s, who probably didn't ever smack their kids, but it's almost like they wanted to have it as an option simply because that is what they were raised with themselves rather than so how do you like you said you have to reflect a little bit, but how do you make that first step? I'm I'm I'm guessing you almost have to go to therapy, right? Uh genuinely you have to because you have to do that. The first step in the first step in uh admitting that your parents didn't have all the answers, and that that might be a different way. Uh I had a gentle parenting expert on uh like a year or so ago, and the feedback I got from that interview was was really interesting because it was all about the well, you can't always be nice to your kids, and which wasn't at all what she was saying, but but it was very much how how how do you accept that the place you want to go to, that maybe the behaviors you were learned yourself, you learned yourself as an adult that you were taught as a kid, are not the behaviors that are actually effective, even though in the moment they are tempting to use. In the moment it's tempting to just smack your kid. In the long run, it's probably not uh conducive to a healthy relationship or creating a healthy adult.

Feelings Plus Logic Works Best

Laura 40:51

Yeah, you mentioned two things I'd love to comment on. And first, um going back to something you said a couple of minutes ago, referencing feelings um versus logic. And I think that um again, what we don't really grow up with this, with thinking about feelings this way. Well, we we grow up thinking about feelings the way you described them, but really, um, you know, and you'll hear sometimes people say something like, all right, let's take the feelings out of this conversation, or you know, right? Like, oh, let's be more effective and let's take the feelings out, as if, you know, that would be more a more effective way to make a decision, for example, or to have, you know, what have you. And what's really interesting is that in fact, um when we when we can make the most effective decision is uh when we are able to work in when we're able to um use our brain in a balanced way. Um we hear about, you know, the emotional right brain and the logical left brain. And again, sometimes we value that logical brain more than the the feeling side of the brain. But in fact, um that's a myth because we are our most effective when we use those two sides of our brain together. Um, our feelings give us information about our needs, and then we can use the logic side of our brain to uh put a plan into action to get our needs met. So what happens is when we're balanced, we can be very effective. And when we get uh, you know, too uh too far to the feelings side, things can get chaotic. And when we get too too far to the logic side, we can get rigid. So it's all about balance. And so we never want to talk about taking feelings out of the subject. We want to talk about having balance because I think when people say that, I think that's what they're thinking about. You know, when we're all feelings, we can be chaotic and there's not enough logic, but it's not about taking feelings out, it's about coming into balance. So um I wanted to comment

Why Power Over Fails Long Term

Laura 43:06

on that. And then I also wanted to comment on, you know, what you're talking about about, you know, how we were raised and you know, um, we were raised very much in a most of us were raised very much in a um power over sort of um family environment. And um, you know, I think that that skips ahead a few steps um to, you know, this the the the solution. There's a there's a few steps in between, you know, calming down as a parent and then getting to problem solving. Um, but just to skip ahead for the purpose of you know addressing your point. Um so when we have um a problem, a conflict in the family, no really no matter what it is, we are certainly um accustomed to and raised. To handle that problem by powering over, by threatening consequences, for example. And what happens is that is that can be very effective initially, it can be effective to an extent when we threaten consequences. And I know I did it when my kids were young, and I know it was effective. And yet what I learned over time is a couple of things. One is that if you're going to rely on consequences to get your kids to do what they want, then that consequence has to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And at some point, you're going to have to ask yourself, what's the line? Where am I going to stop here? And um, you know, ultimately, unless we're willing to physically restrain our kid, our, you know, our kid, or even if we were willing to do that, and our 18-year-old is bigger and stronger than us, you know, like they just there comes to a point where it's no longer effective. So it's really tempting to use, and it's what we're taught to do. So that makes sense that we do it. Um, and yet we can have that awareness, we can have that long-term vision, like, hmm, this is a good short-term plan, but this is not going to be an effective long-term plan. And then on a really different note, um, and something that I really value is that that's a really missed opportunity to teach our kids a different way of solving problems, a more effective way that utilizes the skills of emotional intelligence that they can then bring into their future relationships with their own uh in their own families, with their own partner, with their children and with their uh coworkers and friends. And that's to, you know, think of solving problems, you know, like conflict resolution 101. You know, it we can really introduce that so early. And you you talked about that, wanting to introduce these skills so early. And I mean, we can we can introduce that when we've got, I mean, a three-year-old who doesn't want to brush their teeth. Obviously, we have limits as parents, and the limit is we've got to brush our teeth. Um, you know, that's that's important for your health. Um, but we can go at it from the strategy of brush your teeth or um you know, no book tonight. Um, and that might work. Um, but then they grow up and they're in their relationship, and then, hmm, well, how the heck do I solve this problem with my partner? Like, I want him to do this. And well, am I gonna have to like threaten something or how the heck am I gonna make this work? You know, whereas it's an opportunity to again, right from the beginning, introduce, you know, conflict resolution skills that are really respectful of both people. You know, you can, you know, again, it's adapted to the to what you to your three-year-old, the conversation, but it's basically, you know, like, all right, so we got to brush our teeth, but how can we do that in a way that works for you? Like, how can we make this easier for you? This really seems to be hard for you. And then you might be surprised when you give your kid the opportunity again, even as young as three years old, to have the opportunity to identify the solution. First of all, when they identify the solution, they're gonna be way more vested in actually implementing that solution. Um, and um, you know, you can certainly say, you know, I've got some ideas, because they, you know, there are three and they might need some help. Um, but I've got some ideas, but I want to hear yours first. And um basically what we're teaching is again conflict resolution 101, communicating your own feelings and needs, listening to someone else's feelings and needs, and then identifying a solution that works for both. And you know, that's um certainly a skill that I'd like to see more of in our culture.

Teaching Conflict Resolution Early

Peter 48:07

Yeah, I think you know, for a while we had it and then we drifted away from it a little bit in say the last few years. I know that's the way it is in America, that's the way it is over here in the UK as well. Um that's really that that that's that's really interesting. So one thing I wanted to bring up uh we before we before we go, it's um so you work with parents one-on-one, then you do personalized parenting plans and and and coaching plans and all that sort of stuff, right? When you're talking to parents, because about 90% of the women uh of of listeners to this podcast are are women, and then I have about 10% are men. There are more men listening to the healthy post-natal body podcast than you would think. There would be. I was I was surprised.

Laura 48:52

That's great.

Peter 48:53

Do you think that do you is there a big difference? Because when I talk about the way I interact, the way I was raised, as I said, 40 48-year-old white guy versus my wife, uh a little bit older than I am, but also uh but but but Scottish, but the way she was raised, she was raised girly way, I was raised manly way, old school sort of uh sort of thing. Is it easy? Do you find when when when parents come to you, is it quite often easier for the women to understand what you are talking about than it is for the guys? Uh once they're my age, uh so to speak. I I can imagine there's quite an adjustment in thinking required for a lot of men that that come to you saying, listen, we can do a bit of help, this stuff isn't working for us. And then you come in with the whole oh this power over thing isn't working. And the guy just thinks, yeah, but that's kind of all I know. And that's what I use at work, and that's what we use everywhere. So I take it you give everybody an individual approach when it comes to that stuff so that the the man and and maybe I'm wrong, so so so so feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, but it's it strikes me as a sort of thing that men especially have the might have more pro trouble with in the moment accepting that as as a parenting style. Men of a certain generation, like I said, oh I I keep coming back to that middle-aged guy, sort of thing. Um but they have might have more issues with the whole with that whole approach than what you're saying. But what you're saying is essentially not you're not talking about giving in to your child. I you're saying I have boundaries, I I want you to brush your teeth, but you don't want to brush your teeth. We're escalating this to a problem now that you're shouting and stomping your feet every single time you have to brush your teeth. How can we dis de-escalate this and how can we get to a conclusion that doesn't involve me taking your favorite Teddy away or whatever?

Laura 51:16

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think you're absolutely right that um it's highly personalized and um it's you know, really your temperament, again, your your life experience, um, what what it was like in your family growing up and our past experiences combined with our temperament have a huge impact on how we parent and what comes more easily for us and what's more challenging for us. And so um you commented on, yeah, do I kind of like really personalize this for each family? And that's exactly what I do.

Personalized Parenting Plans Explained

Laura 51:54

I actually work with families, I specialize in creating something I call personalized parenting plans. And what that means is that, you know, I recognize that, you know, step one in making a change, again, is it's all about awareness. And so when we can um when when we can increase our awareness through education, for example, when when I can share this um, you know, this new way of uh understanding what's actually underneath the behavior, you know, when we can when we can reframe or or change the lens through which we look and have an understanding that um, okay, when when when my kid is um acting in these ways where they really they look like they're really a mean kid or a bad kid or a disrespectful kid, you know, in fact that it's um that it's an unconscious um reaction to um you know uh ultimately a a fear, uh a threat state, which is often rooted in, you know, again, their their big emotions and and unmet needs. But when we can really uh change the the lens in which we look at our kids' behavior through, it's really um the first step in um the ability to change the way that we then respond. But again, when I work with families, like it's basically a three-step plan. And we talked about the first step of that, which is how do we calm ourselves, how do we set ourselves up for success in managing our own emotions and behavior? And step two is how do we set our kids up for success, you know, both in the moment and longer term. And then step three is, you know, how do we solve problems more effectively in our family? And we can this knowledge, as I said, is the step one. And we can gain this knowledge through books and podcasts and classes and all sorts of really um effective ways to learn new things and grow and and change. Um and yet um I believe my experience has taught me that it's learning how to um take that information you're learning and apply it to your individual situation, you know, you, you as a parent, your temperament, what's hard for you? Um, do you tend to lash out? Do you tend to shut down your kid, your kid's temperament, the specific situation, um, you know, what's happening in your home, and what are your family's what what are your family's individual challenges and needs? And so then like taking that information and applying it in a plan in a way that you can take this information and then know how to apply it in your family is really what can make the difference between staying stuck in your old ways, as you refer to, and being able to move forward in in new ways.

Peter 55:00

Well, absolutely. I I 100%, 100% agree. I talk about that a lot with regards to exercise and and and diet approaches and all that sort of stuff. Uh you can do all the YouTube videos you want, right? You can you can follow every single exercise, you can follow every single diet if you wanted to. You can go from from keto to carnivore to to to whatever. But picking one that really works for you and working with an expert that guides you through how to because picking one that works for you, you can't pick on unless you're unless you're trained on that sort of stuff to the level down that you are, I wouldn't even know where to begin. Do you know what I mean? And and I would spend years on some sort of voyage of self-discovery through YouTube and books and all that. So I've spent hundreds of pounds on books and and and hours and hours on YouTube clips and audiobooks and and and and all that sort of stuff. Or I can go to someone who knows what they're talking about and say, actually, Pete, if you just do this, I can self-save myself, you know, the most valuable commodity, and that is time, and especially when you're talking, talking raising kids and all that sort of stuff.

Laura 56:11

Yeah, yeah.

Peter 56:12

You know, you don't want to be in the situation where we were a few decades ago that the accepted way of raising your kids was from the age of zero to eighteen, they live with you, and you have some trouble, and by the time they're 14 they rebel. Then you don't speak to them until they're pretty much 29 years old and they start having kids for themselves, and then they bring you back into their life because they realize that you know parenting is difficult and you meant well, and all of a sudden, so you have this 11-year-old of lost connection almost. Uh, as one of my previous guests explained, that that was kind of how it used to go. Wouldn't it be nice if you just had to have a healthy relationship with your kids all the way through your life rather than having that weird gap in the middle?

Laura 57:00

Yeah, you bring up such a good point about relationships because at the end of the day, um, you know, that's all that once our kids turn 18, that's that's all we have left. And if we've spent those 18 years uh creating, you know, respectful relationships that include my needs and my limits, and um, you know, your your needs and your limits, and and how do we um create solutions that recognize both of our needs? And again, that of course, um as the kids get older, that change that what that looks like changes. You know, when they're three, it might be about brushing their teeth. And when they're um 16, that's gonna really look very different. So as I I said some of this to my daughter one time when we were, I remember exactly where we were when we were driving, and she was about that age, whatever that age is, where they just start wanting to do things you don't want them to do. And yet you recognize that you can't stay stuck where you are. And I remember saying to her, you know, I think we're at that point where, you know, as we make decisions, you know, I I'm probably gonna be a little uncomfortable and and you're gonna be a little uncomfortable, because neither of us are gonna be able to get it exactly our way, and we're both gonna need to, you know, show some, you know, flexibility, a little bit of flexibility. And so when you when you throughout their growing up years respond to daily conflicts in a way that creates a relationship uh rooted in respectful conflict resolution, um you're going to have that relationship. And again, at the end of the day, it's all it's all you have.

Peter 58:41

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. Although, you know, with the housing crisis and everybody in the center of kids will be living with their parents until they're 40, so they don't have a choice anymore.

Laura 58:52

There you go. So funny. My husband and I just all their growing up years, we never had a generator. And believe me, we were in the minority. Um, but my husband just like, oh, camping guy, like we've got our flashlights, we've got, we got our, you know, our fireplace. He's uh, you know, I'm gonna take care of myself kind of guy. Well, finally, um, my daughter is now a freshman in college, and my son is graduate just graduated from college and has his own apartment. We for the first winter season have a generator. And so our thinking is we're laughing. All these years later, we finally get one, and they've moved, you know, they're not really living with us at least full time. And so that's our that's we're joking, but that's our thinking, like, well, that'll get them back. But we have a generator.

Peter 59:34

Power guts happening. They don't have a choice. We've got the blankets. Right. I'll not happy. No, was there anything else you wanted to touch on? I think we went through an awful lot of stuff then.

Parenting Is Practice Not Perfection

Peter 59:49

Uh we could do this for hours, but was there anything else?

Laura 59:51

That was a great conversation. I really enjoyed your questions. Um, I guess I would just end on the note of saying that, you know, I encourage parents to think of um parenting. And this, you know, I say it as this quick little statement, but it really took an awful lot of work to get to this, um, to accept this with, you know, true acceptance and peace is that really parenting like life is not about getting it right. I used to get so frustrated, like, why can't I get it right the first time? Like, this is such an important job. Why can't I get it right the first time? But no, parenting like life is not about getting it right, it's about getting it wrong a lot of the time, um, and um an openness and a willingness to learn and to grow and to get on the path towards um, you know, getting it right at some point in the future.

Peter 1:00:40

Yeah, no, that that sounds about right to me, to be honest.

Laura 1:00:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, we want to get it right that first time, but it's just not how life works. It's like we have to get it wrong so we can have the opportunity to learn what we need to learn and so that we can get it right. And again, it's some at some point in the future. It's about moving in that direction, not this instant, you know, what we really want that instant get it right all the time. And but yeah, it's it's a it's a long-term project, life and exactly.

Peter 1:01:09

That's one of my uh clients' kids will will will point out. He's he's 12 and his sister is 14. They got it right with him, they practiced on her. Yeah, yeah. And and and and and he is 2.0, he's very 2.0, and therefore he's the better. They made all the mistakes of her.

Laura 1:01:26

Yeah, the trick, the trick happens though, is when, and this is the case for me, is I might have figured it out with one kid, but then the other kid, totally different challenges. Well, then it makes it harder.

Peter 1:01:37

That's a problem with personalities, isn't it? Yes, right. On that happy note, I will press stop record here. And press stop record as always is exactly what I did.

Links, Email, And Sign-Off

Peter 1:01:48

Thanks very much to uh Laura for coming on. Like I said, I I I I love this channel. I love when child behavior specialists um come on and explain the things we kind of already kind of know but never take into account. Right? Um, check out her website. Um, I will link to her website and all that sort of stuff. There's a ton of information, there are loads of blogs and all that sort of thing. Um, you can also get some insight into what the personalized plan and all that sort of stuff is about. Um, if you'd like to come on to the podcast, right? If you're one of those people that says me, I want to come on to the podcast, then just email me, peter at healthypostnatobody.com. Um if you have any questions or comments or anything like that, we will do that as well. Now, next week is creation and I'm not doing a podcast uh next week because you know we need some time off, and nobody wants to listen to my voice at Christmas. However, the week after that, I have an amazing, an amazing interview coming up with Anthony Lowe, who is I mentioned before one of the um one of the uh uh episodes I did on Diocese Right. He is one of the two or three or four people in the world that I really respected in this field. And that I think you know everybody needs to listen to. So definitely, definitely check that out. You have a tremendous week, have a great Christmas. And I'll see you in the new year.

Speaker 2 1:03:17

Bye now, it's a good idea.