Freedom Focus Photography

Your Marketing Plan with Dayna Schaaf

• Nicole Begley, Dayna Schaaf • Episode 276

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276 - Are you ready to fill your marketing jar?

This week, I’m chatting with Dayna Schaaf from This Can’t Be That Hard about how to create a powerful marketing plan tailored to your photography business. We’ll cover everything from big-picture campaigns to maximizing social media, so you’ll leave with a clear, actionable strategy to grow your business this year!

What to listen for:

  • What the “marketing jar” is and how it can transform your strategy.
  • Why social media isn’t your only (or best) marketing tool.
  • How to identify your marketing “rocks” and why they should come first.
  • Easy blogging topics you can start with today.
  • Why email marketing is non-negotiable—and how to get started.
  • Practical advice for creating consistent social media content.
  • Dana’s best advice for photographers feeling overwhelmed by marketing.

If marketing has ever felt overwhelming or unclear, this episode is your roadmap to success. By breaking down your marketing strategy into manageable steps, you’ll be able to focus your energy on what works and build a sustainable system for growth. Ready to fill your marketing jar? Start with one “rock” and watch your business flourish!

Don’t forget to grab Dana’s free Marketing Jar Worksheet at www.thiscantbethathard.com/marketingjar, and let us know how you’re putting these ideas into action.

Important Links:

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Nicole Begley (00:00)
Raise your hand if you need a marketing plan for your business this year. that's all of you. Okay. Excellent. We'll just stay tuned because that's what's coming up in this episode.

Nicole Begley (00:10)
I'm Nicole Begley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six-figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving $2,000 to $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six-figure businesses;

that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales. And no matter if you want photography to be your full-time passion or a part-time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads, welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast.

Nicole (01:10)
All right. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the freedom focus photography podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Bagley. And today we have a returning guest onto the podcast. We have Dana Schaaf from this can't be that hard. she is the marketing director there. This can't be that hard is, the education business that is run by Annamie Tonkin. You guys have likely heard or seen them around these parts before. and so yeah, Dana, you are back on the podcast. Nice to see you.

Dayna (01:32)
Yeah

Thanks for having me back. really excited to be here. This is like, this is like our time. Marketing directors were like, it's January. This is our moment. Exactly. Yeah.

Nicole (01:40)
Of course.

I've waited all year, but it's true, especially in a photography business. Like most

of us have such seasonal businesses that really, no matter where you are, first quarter tends to be a little bit slower and tends to be the time where we maybe start to focus on marketing because we're like, wait, it's slower. Also, maybe it's like, now we have the time. So when you're really busy in the fall, it's really easy to say, I'll do that in January. Well, it's time. It's time guys. Yeah.

Dayna (02:04)
I can catch my breath. Yeah.

It is January.

Nicole (02:16)
So let's get on it.

so yeah, so now's kind of the time. So where, gosh, I mean, where do we even start? Cause I think I see a lot of challenges with people knowing they need to market their business, but then kind of falling into the trap of just like, I don't know what to do. I'll post on social and then say nothing's working.

Dayna (02:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, or analysis paralysis. I feel like everybody, all their creative energy got zapped in the fall, and now they're slowly coming out of the hole. January is 700 days long, so after we get through half of January, people are like, okay, I'm feeling creative again. They get all these ideas for how they wanna market their business, and then they kinda get overwhelmed by everything.

Nicole (02:37)
Yes.

Ha ha.

Dayna (02:58)
it turns into analysis paralysis. They're like, okay, but I, should I do this or should I do that? Should I do this thing first or that thing first? And so I think my goal with this conversation today is first of all, let's talk about how do we actually make a marketing plan as a solopreneur. Because I think it is very different than a lot of the advice you hear out there. If you're a business, even of two people, like, right. It's like, if you're just the only person doing this, you have to create a marketing plan for yourself that is doable.

Nicole (03:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dayna (03:26)
So how do we do that? And then how do we make it so that we don't fall into analysis paralysis?

Nicole (03:32)
Right.

Yeah. Well, I think one of the challenges that analysis paralysis is the reason they end up there is they think that there's going to be right or wrong answers for marketing their business or like, I'm going to make the wrong choice. And so I'll just not make a choice. So yeah.

Dayna (03:41)
Yes.

Totally. And

that is so right, Nicole. And I think whenever I'm talking to people about that, I'm like, there isn't a right or wrong answer. I love how you phrased that because there isn't. All it is, I would just encourage you to be a little messier with your marketing and be willing to just try something and see what happens. I think the most...

Nicole (04:00)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (04:06)
obvious example of that and one that you can see happening really quickly is on social media. It's like, is there a trend happening with a reel like just try it, see if it works for you. And if it doesn't like move on, nobody's gonna know if you had a real flop, right? But let's extrapolate that into like an even bigger marketing idea, like an email campaign or even like, you know, some kind of like charitable marketing idea that you might have. Instead of trying to really hold the reins so tight and be like, is this the perfect idea for

me it's like just try it and like and see and if it doesn't work you can just try something else that's the beauty of being your own business owner there's no boss that's gonna be like you're fired yes

Nicole (04:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right. Exactly. And if it works well, like, all right, great. Remember this, do it again next

time. If it doesn't work, maybe like, maybe there's a tweak you can make that will work. And, I think a lot of challenges too, as people look and they maybe look at someone that had success with a certain marketing plan and they think, that's the key. Yeah. But in reality, different things are going to work for different markets and for us. Like if you and I were in the same market, we might have totally different marketing strategies.

Dayna (05:02)
Yeah, I gotta do that. Yeah.

Nicole (05:14)
You have something that works for you, because I'm a different person might not work for me as well.

Dayna (05:22)
Yeah, and also I think that's the beauty of it, right? It's like, yes, we have overlapping markets with other photographers that are in our niche, but how you position yourself, how you market yourself is what's going to make you stand out to your ideal clients versus to their ideal clients. And I really do subscribe to the idea that like, you're not the photographer for everybody and that there is a client for everybody out there, right? So like, this is like love language, like you need to speak your own love language to find

Nicole (05:44)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (05:51)
your people that are gonna like really resonate with you and when you start to try to do what everybody else is doing that's when it feels really icky and it feels really hard and like you're just like pushing the rock up the hill and it just feels gross. So I think that is a really important note is like be you know be a little messy be willing to try different things be authentically yourself and then you said something else that I just want to make sure we highlight which is and if something works

Nicole (06:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dayna (06:19)
Do it again. Literally do it again. Like, mean, again, I say this with reels. I'm like, if you had a reel that did really well, do it again. Like, you don't have to constantly reinvent the wheel when it comes to marketing. Finding your messaging and your things that work for you and your clients, finding those is gold. It's not like you find them and you're like, okay, well, that one worked. Now onto the next thing, throw it out the window. No, keep that.

Nicole (06:21)
Yes.

Yeah.

Dayna (06:45)
and just tweak it a tiny little bit and do it again next year and the year after that. So today I wanna talk about creating, it's January. I want you guys to be able to come back to this episode every year and be like, okay, I'm gonna make my marketing plan for the year. I wanna look at what worked last year and then I wanna bring it into this year and make my marketing plan. So yeah, step one, what worked for you last year? Did you offer a certain type of special session or run some kind of special offer that really worked?

Nicole (06:49)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (07:14)
I would encourage you to first sit down and think about, maybe you use your, you know, this is where you dig into your numbers and you're like, wow, I had a really big month in like May, why? And then you look back and you're like, well, I offered, you know, these wildflower sessions in May and people really loved them. Okay, so note that really worked, okay? So looking back on what worked in the previous year, step number one.

Nicole (07:23)
Mm-hmm.

I love it.

Do you, do you have, don't want to get ahead of our steps, but do you look back at maybe what didn't work too? Yeah.

Dayna (07:41)
Sure, I think absolutely

look at what didn't work. Like you might also look at your numbers and be like, this was a bad month. Or I remember I did this, you know, tried to do this sales campaign and just nobody bit. And now that you're a little bit away from it, maybe you can take a look at that critically and be like, well, maybe the time was wrong. Like if you, especially if you feel like, man, that was a, that was a really good idea. Like again, let's say it's like wildflower out here in the desert, we have wildflowers. So.

Nicole (08:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dayna (08:10)
I would be shocked if that wouldn't be a good idea, right? To do wildflower sessions, you know? So if you're like, well, that really didn't hit last year, I wonder why. Okay, so then you wanna look at the strategy around it. Did you send it at a weird time? Was something happening either in the world or is it like kids are getting out of school or it's Mother's Day or, so you might need to think about what was going on for your clients that they didn't receive what you were sending. Or did you not?

talk about it enough. think last time I was here I was talking about the rule of seven, how people need to hear something seven times before they even cop onto it. Like you need to see a commercial seven times before you're like, wow, I should try those new Doritos or whatever, right? So.

Nicole (08:42)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

Dayna (08:57)
make sure that you did enough emails, you did enough social media. So I would look critically at that. And then if you just really feel like, you know what, actually that was just a bad idea and everything about it felt gross, I'm just gonna move on from it, then just move on from it.

Nicole (09:10)
Yeah. Yeah. I real quick point, and then we'll keep moving on this list, is that I feel strongly that if there's something that you're like, say it is the wildflower session. So you're like, man, I really want to do that, but it didn't bite. Like, keep trying. Like if there is something that you feel that is a really good fit for your business, then it likely is. And you just didn't find the right way to market it where. Yeah. Where if there's something maybe that you're like, everything about that marketing strategy just felt yuck.

Dayna (09:24)
Agreed.

couldn't agree with you more.

Yep.

Nicole (09:37)
Like, all right, fine. Let's move on, but,

but dig into that feeling.

Dayna (09:42)
To your point, maybe something worked but you hated it. Then like don't do it again. Like if you really hated it or change it. Yes.

Nicole (09:45)
Yeah. Yeah. Or change it. How can I make this fun? This worked.

How can I make this more aligned for me? Yeah. Okay. So that's number one. Look back and, and pick that. Okay. Number two.

Dayna (09:52)
Yes, love that. That's great language. Okay, so we're looking back. Great. Okay, so now

we like know what worked, what didn't work. Now we're to come into this year. And I like to organize, have people organize their ideas around marketing, around this idea of a jar. So you might have heard this story told in many different ways, but I'll do it quickly. And it's basically like somebody comes to you and they have this jar and they fill it out they say this jar is empty. And you're like, indeed it is. And then they fill it up with some rocks.

and they show you the jar and they say, is this jar full? And you say, it is. And then they go, hold on a second. Let me pour some pebbles around those rocks. Now is the jar full? And you're like, yeah, the jar is now full. And you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me pour some sand in there. And the sand goes in between the pebbles and the rocks. Is it full now? And you're like, well, surely it is now full, Dana. And then I take a glass of water and pour it in. And I say, now actually the jar is full, right? So the idea is here, the like parallel is,

There are many different types of marketing that you can do in your business. And I will see people sometimes only focus on water, for example, or only focus on pebbles. And they fill their whole jar up with doing pebbles. And then they're like, I don't have room for anything else. Now, what's really important about this story is if you put in the water first to the jar, and then you put in the rocks, the water would start overflowing out of the jar, right?

Nicole (11:14)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (11:15)
So

you actually have to put them in in a specific order in order to fit everything in the jar. So when we're translating this over to marketing, your rocks are going to be your in-person or big collaborative events, your charitable marketing, things that you're doing like big collaborations with other brands where you are hopefully bringing a bunch of leads in at in one sort of event, whether it's online, in person, whatever. That's your rocks.

Nicole (11:44)
Yep. So for a lot of photographers, a lot of people do like a calendar contest type thing. So that's definitely like a quarter one rock. Cause it's going to take up a decent amount of time. or yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Dayna (11:48)
Yup.

Yeah, it takes a chunk of your energy, right? But it brings in hopefully a bunch of leads. But you wanna put

that rock in first. So then pebbles are gonna be things that take up a little bit more time, but also have some longevity. That's the other thing about rocks is like they do take up a bunch of your energy, but they bring in a lot of leads. So pebbles, I like to look at those as blogs. Blog posts have a long life.

Nicole (12:08)
No.

Hmm.

Dayna (12:18)
They really help your SEO. The other media option for a pebble might be like doing a website rehaul. Like if you really need to improve your SEO or your language on your website, that might be a pebble. Your sand is going to be your email marketing. And that, you know, is something that should be going out once a month minimum, if not twice a month. And then your water is going to be your social media.

So going back to when I said, if you fill up your jar with water first and how we started this conversation, which is people are like, I'm just going to post a bunch on social media and then be like, nothing's working. To your point, it's like, I see people fill their jar with water and they're like, great, I'm going to crush it on social. And then all of their marketing energy is tapped because social media can be pretty draining. And then you try to drop a rock in there and all of a sudden you're over capacity, right? So let's.

Nicole (13:06)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dayna (13:08)
organize our year around this marketing jar and say how many rocks do you have space for in your business? Now the answer is going to be different for everybody but like you said Nicole for pet photographers the calendar you know contest thing is great that probably like you said takes a quarter like how how do you tell

Nicole (13:28)
Yeah, I

would say that's probably a good quarter because you have to plan it and, and you have a charitable component to it then you have 13 sessions to shoot. So, I mean, it could actually go because some people will do the event in the first quarter and then shoot maybe second into third quarter and then put everything kind of together at the end. So it could be something that is spread out over the whole year or people could condense it within like eight weeks and just focus only on that. So it really depends how you want to set up your jar.

Dayna (13:35)
Yeah.

But either way,

eight weeks is still a long time, even on the short end. So that's a rock, guys. For those of you who are pet photographers, that's a rock. For portrait photographers, this might look like something like, I see people do like personality school photos for like, if you're a family photographer, maybe you do personality photos for little kids, or you do some kind of...

Nicole (13:57)
Yeah, no, it's, it's an involved process for sure.

Dayna (14:21)
I was talking to a photographer the other day and they like go to like a like their town does like a street fair that's like a family thing and they like, you know, set up a little booth, ticket things there. It's like these are great ideas and you're going to meet a lot of people when you're at those things, but they also take a lot of energy, right? I think for most photographers doing one or two of these a year, well, do them well is a good goal for yourself. And if you're just starting out,

Nicole (14:39)
Mm.

Dayna (14:49)
Just focus on one and again, do it well because once you get the calendar contest formula down, then it's easier to duplicate. It takes less brain power next year.

Nicole (14:53)
Mm-hmm.

Oh my

gosh. 100%. Yeah. Some other things I do, which could work for any portrait really, um, we do it a lot in the pet space, but it would also work for family portraits is, I love charitable marketing and I built my business on charitable marketing. um, partnering with, uh, a charity, could be a rescue. could be a human charity. could be all sorts of different things. Um, and you basically offer a special session to their supporters that has a little bit of a fundraising element built in for the charity.

And it is such a great thing. Cause once you create it once you just rinse and repeat to whatever other charities you want. can do it quarterly. knew people that did it monthly and it basically brought in like their entire business. they're like, I filled my calendar, just doing this same thing, but over and over again. And you know, once you create it once it's so easy to keep, keep doing it.

Dayna (15:51)
Yeah, and sidebar Nicole, I love talking to you because you're always like a human charity, like we're dog people. So I love talking to you because we talk about human things, like other people talk about dog things. So that just makes me happy. you know, those pesky humans. So yeah, Nicole, you're the queen of charitable marketing. Like I always am coming to you for ideas there. And I love this idea. Plus it feels great, right? Like

Nicole (16:03)
Yeah, like, you know, rescue or like something that benefits humans, I suppose.

Yeah, 100%.

Dayna (16:19)
When you

pick causes that you care about, you're giving back to charities that you care about, like it's just a really heart-filling way to run your business.

Nicole (16:26)
Yeah, a hundred percent. And just the amount of goodwill you get from the community that, know, my gosh, so many people used to tell me just, I just love everything you've done for, for this XYZ charity. you know, it, it, then they want to do business with you. It's a long game. Yep.

Dayna (16:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. And yep, exactly. So if

you aren't doing some kind of charitable marketing event, I want you guys to put that on your calendar for 2025. It is a great way to grow your business. It is a really smart and like Nicole said, once you figure out all the, you know, like the tech and the organization and the email, everything on the backend, do it once and then it's rinse and repeat. So that is a really good investment in your business. Okay. So moving on, let's talk about pebbles.

Nicole (17:07)
Okay.

Dayna (17:08)
I want to clear up a little bit about blogging. Some people are like, is blogging still a thing? And I'm like, yes, but it's not what it used to be. It's not, I shot this session with so-and-so and heard Frenchies and they're so cute, la, la, la, la, la. We're not blogging about individual sessions anymore. What we are blogging about is what people are Googling. So you want to answer a question in your blog. So you want to think about,

Nicole (17:15)
Exactly.

Dayna (17:37)
what your ideal client is struggling with. What are they Googling? What resources do they need? So if you're pet photographer, right, it might be something like the top five enrichment toys that I recommend for, you know, dogs that are busy bodies or whatever. Because you are a pet photographer, you are an expert with...

Nicole (17:55)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (18:01)
I'm just going to use dogs because I have dogs. You are a dog expert to some degree, right? So when you tell me that these are the best enrichment toys for my crazy dogs, I'm like, great. It doesn't have anything to do with photography, but you could like creatively weave it in at the end where you might be like before your photography session or before a photography session. If I have a dog that's like really high energy, I recommend, you know, that they do a snuffle mat or whatever to like kind of work out some of the energy.

Nicole (18:17)
Thank

Dayna (18:29)
And then at the bottom, you can always say something about like, I'm a pep talker, it's obviously gonna be on your website. So they're gonna find you through there, right? You're offering up something that you are an expert in that you have overlapping with your ideal audience. Does that make sense?

Nicole (18:36)
Hmm.

Yes,

a hundred percent. The one that I always like to say too is, you know, thinking about who is your ideal client. My ideal clients, like young professional couple love to be outside. Maybe they love breweries and hiking and you know, they're making plans for the weekend with their dog included. And so, you know, even just doing like roundup blog posts sometimes of like, Hey, here's the best dog friendly breweries and then reach out to them and let them know, Hey,

Dayna (19:05)
Yep.

Nicole (19:08)
I put your name on this list if you want to share it and then they share it. And then also when people are just searching, you know, brewery, dog friendly brewery, Charlotte, then, look, there's my thing. And they have a dog and they're on your website now.

Dayna (19:18)
Look at that.

Yeah, and

like maybe they didn't even know. I remember there was a point in time when I didn't even know pet photography was a thing. Still don't like you said, this is me. I'm like, let's go to our brewery this weekend. look at this. I can get pictures taken with my dog. Like who knew, right? So again, love that. It's stuff like that or, you know, best hikes to go to, best restaurants to take your dog to, all that stuff that you guys already know that.

Nicole (19:26)
No, most people still don't.

Yeah, right.

Dayna (19:44)
Those are great things for you to be blogging about. If you are a portrait photographer, this might be, like if you do families, this might be like offbeat parks that you can let your kids run wild in or whatever. Things like whatever you have overlapping with your ideal client and then what are they Googling? That's what I like to, and this is a great place to use chat, right? Like what, to it and be like, my ideal client is this person.

Nicole (19:56)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dayna (20:13)
What are like the top 10 things that this person Googles? And you know what? The chat GPT will tell you. And then you will know what to write your blogs about.

Nicole (20:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Yeah. And then if you get, want to get really nerdy, you can start to dig into like Google keyword tools and stuff like that. But man with chat, you don't even have to like, it used to be, you had to figure out how to properly ask the Google keyword, all those things. And I don't know, just between you and me, Google user experience is not ideal. Not a fan. So yeah, asking chats much easier.

Dayna (20:32)
Yep.

It's not, it is not ideal.

Way easier.

So look, there are plenty of people out there who specialize in blogging and SEO. That's not my expertise, but I do think these are really important pieces of marketing content because they do live for a long time. So I will also just give you that tip. Don't pick something that's gonna have a short life. Like pick something that will be evergreen for several years. You know what I mean?

Nicole (20:59)
they do.

No.

Yeah. And even with that, you can share it for other things. Even if you did something seasonal, like, you know, dog safety in summer or something like that. we get a lot of blue green algae and lakes here. So like do a whole article about like how to properly let your dog swim. And then you have all sorts of water swimming, amazing images you get to put in there. Anyway, I digress, but you know, you can share that then every summer, or if you think about. Like, I like to think about, right, what are people Googling?

Dayna (21:29)
What a good idea.

Nicole (21:36)
but then also what do people need to know before they book a session with me? So, you know, your dog is okay to be on a leash. Your dog is not too crazy. you know, just different things like that, that then you can take those and take that same messaging or even put those resources into your like client education experience where, know, people reach out and you're having an inquiry with them, or you can just send them, you know, all these different resources to help them have a great experience. So they live on in so many ways.

Dayna (21:40)
Love that.

Mm-hmm

Yep.

I love that. So it's just frequently asked questions that you get. Like, what are people always asking you? Blog about that. I love that. Okay, so now you have these blog ideas. How many blogs can you do? I don't know. You need to decide that for yourself. Like, I would say one a month is like probably like the A plus student answer. But like in real life, I don't know if we're all gonna get to write a blog every single month, right?

Nicole (22:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yeah.

Only 12 a year

though if you batch them.

Dayna (22:29)
It's not that bad. I was gonna say if you batch them, it's really not that bad. So like if you if you

tuck in this time of year and you batch them out, it's really not that bad. And be again, be smart about what you use because the reason why we are going to spend so much time putting this effort into blogs is it's super easy to then take that content and duplicate it out over into your emails and into your social media. So let's go to emails next, because that's your sand. So

Nicole (22:48)
you

Mm-hmm.

Dayna (22:56)
Please guys, if you aren't emailing, I have talked to quite a few photographers already this year who are like, I don't have an email list. And I'm like, girl, what?

Nicole (23:06)
I know that I always say to as soon as I'm talking to anyone, that's like, all right, they've, they've started to take photos. They're ready to start their business or they've been in business for a bit. I'm like, all right, email list. Yes or no. They're like, uh, no, I'm like, okay, do not collect $200. Do not pass go. Like you start it now.

Dayna (23:14)
Yeah.

No. Make an email list. And

people are, okay, so I feel like there's two holdups here. One, it's the tech. People are like overwhelmed by it. I recommend Flowdesk. I really like them. I think they are affordable. I think they are visual. So like it's easy for creatives to figure it out. And I think they have a lot of tech support. So, but there's a ton of great email service providers out there. Find one that works for you.

Nicole (23:28)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dayna (23:46)
Do you have to invest a little bit of time in learning it? Yes. Did you invest a little bit of time in learning how to take photos? Yes. So like be a business owner and invest a little bit of time in learning how to use your email service provider. The other hump that people come up against is like, I don't know what to say. Okay. So I get it. Please also don't be one of those people who only email their list when they're selling something. That is the most annoying way to get email is like only when sales are.

Nicole (24:08)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (24:12)
You want to think about emails as the coolest thing about email marketing is it's people have opted into it. They are on your on your list by choice, like sort of like social media where they opt to follow you, but it's an even bigger opt in like they are on your list, right? I want to pause here to say people ask me a lot. Hey, if I did this charitable marketing event and someone gave me their email address, can I email them? Yes.

Nicole (24:12)
Mm-hmm.

you

Dayna (24:41)
Yes, you can. That is the deal. When people give you their email address in exchange for work, in exchange for information, if you have a lead magnet on your website, that is all fair game because the key to email marketing is they can unsubscribe anytime. So you don't need to worry about bothering people. If they don't want to hear from you, they will simply unsubscribe. I would love to see people be emailing their list twice a month.

Nicole (24:44)
Please do.

Dayna (25:07)
I would say a really easy way to email people is, remember when I said, don't blog about your sessions? You can email about them. You could just be like, I did this amazing session. Again, like, my gosh, the wildflowers are popping off in Phoenix right now. I just did this incredible session. Look at these photos, right? That's a really low hanging fruit email to send. you know, and then you can always, if you're offering a special session, that's also gonna be, you know, that's like a bit more of like a sales email.

You can also just talk about, I know everybody's gonna cringe, talk about yourself in your emails. We want to know who you are as a photographer. So again, Nicole might send me an email that's like, guys, I went to this amazing brewery this weekend, put it on your list. It is dog friendly. They have this incredible beer, like da da da da da. There's this hike nearby. I would love to get that email. Like I would absolutely love to get that email. So I just want you to think about.

email as being a way that you can communicate with your list in a way that you're like kind of having a conversation. So if you wrote that blog post about all of those breweries, I want you to send that out in your email. Like I went to this brewery this weekend. It got me thinking. I started to write a blog post about it. Like here's the brewery I went to click here to read the rest of the blog. Right. Easy peasy. So I just gave you four really easy ideas for emailing your list, rotate through them. Right.

Nicole (26:23)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (26:31)
and just do one every two weeks, okay?

Nicole (26:34)
Yeah. And chat, GPT can help you brainstorm more.

Dayna (26:37)
Totally.

And what's important is when you email your list consistently and you give them reasons to open, know, there's so much that I could say about email marketing, writing a good, you know, subject line, like da-da-da. But the more that people open your emails, the more that Google basically grades you an A, and then the more that they will deliver your emails to their inbox as opposed to their like promotions or social tab or whatever.

So that's why you can't only email your list when you're selling something because then you're shooting yourself in the foot. Cause I bet your email isn't even getting into their inbox. It's probably going to their spam or their promotions folder. So that's why it's important to be emailing people consistently with information that is really useful for

Nicole (27:18)
Can we talk real quick? Cause I know a lot of people I've talked to and they're like, but it's my open rate. So bad. It's only like 55%.

Dayna (27:27)
NAMM!

Nicole (27:31)
Cause here's the thing, like all the path photographers, so many that I've talked to like have about a 50 % open rate. would say that tends to be, and they think they're like, but only 50%. I'm like the industry average is like 20. So yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Like that's, that's the goal. The, the industry benchmark is 20%. So, I just wanted to throw that out there that you are likely doing better than you think.

Dayna (27:34)
Yeah. That's an incredible open rate.

20. 20 is good.

Yeah.

Yes.

Nicole (27:56)
with those open rates and, and like, don't worry about unsubscribes. They might love you, but maybe their dog just passed, or maybe like it was a family client. Their kids are in college now. Like it's, you don't know what's going on in their, in their life and just release and let it go. but yeah, just wanted to throw that out there that. Yeah. Yeah.

Dayna (28:13)
couldn't agree more and I'll

double down on the unsubscribes thing. I even go so far as to say if you're not getting somebody unsubscribing every time you send an email you're not sending enough emails. So like you know somebody is first of all sometimes it's just really easy sometimes their Gmail just does it for you like unsubscribed like it has like that unsubscribe button at the top like sometimes especially in January I'll go through and just not even think about it I'm just unsubscribing from everything right?

Nicole (28:20)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yep. Right.

Dayna (28:39)
So

I have some tips and tricks around not getting people to unsubscribe, don't stress about it too much. Really, if you're putting quality content out there and somebody unsubscribes, like Nicole said, it's not about you. It is about what is going on in their life. Don't look at who unsubscribed. Just don't even look at that. Just keep your blinders on. Keep eyes on your own page. OK, so let's talk about social.

Nicole (28:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

For sure.

Dayna (29:07)
I feel like everybody has a love-hate relationship with social media. I think it can be really powerful in terms of getting you a bigger reach really quickly, but it can also feel like it has more power than it does. As we literally just saw, TikTok went away, right? And then it came back, but like it went away.

Nicole (29:22)
Yes.

Dayna (29:29)
That could happen at any point on any of these social platforms. So you have to know that you don't own your Instagram. You don't own your TikTok. You don't own your Facebook page. The goal for social media should always be to get people over to your email list, right? So when we're creating social posts, I want you guys, again, go back to that blog mindset. I do think it is important to just share beautiful photos that you've made, right? That is one content pillar.

Nicole (29:44)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (29:57)
But another content pillar is answering questions that people have. I'm sure you have noticed that really the content that does well on social media right now is like lists, resources, how-tos, like, you know, I just saw one today for photographers that was like 15 tax write-offs for photographers. And they like listed them in a reel and they popped up, you know, and it was like, save this post. Heck yes, we're saving that post. That is really actually helpful for us.

Nicole (30:22)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (30:26)
So when you are thinking about creating content, same as the blogs, I want you to think about what are your ideal clients, what questions do they have, right? That you can answer for them in your niche. So exactly what Nicole said, if we're talking about the brewery, let's go back to that idea. Great. You're a photographer, so you can take your real camera or your phone camera and make a little reel that is like my top 10 breweries in Charlottesville and like.

Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, them together in a little reel and like put a slap a trending audio on it and put it out there for the world. Right. Like that is useful.

Nicole (30:53)
Mm-hmm.

And then if you want

to go, if you, this is like, don't get overwhelmed here, guys. This is like, this is level three one. Like this is like the, the graduate school level course on this, but then you can take that as like a little PDF download and like grow your list as people download it. But again, don't get overwhelmed. If that overwhelms you, I never said it, but if you're already doing those things, that's your next step.

Dayna (31:10)
Yeah.

Dog it on the rocks.

That is your 301, I love that. Yes,

100%. So did you see how we moved you guys from the marketing of the biggest rocks, then we're moving down and social media is just supporting everything else that you're doing. So if you're doing charitable marketing, your social media is pointing back to that rock. If you're doing a blog, your social media is pointing back to that blog. Your social media is always pointing back to your email list, right? Like it's.

Nicole (31:46)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (31:47)
It's supporting everything else. It's not your pinnacle like thing.

Nicole (31:51)
Amen.

Yes. Yeah. And I think this also like, what's the biggest stress with social media? I don't know what to post. Well, this solves all of that because you have all these things to post now.

Dayna (31:58)
Yeah.

It just gave you a million things to post,

right? Like actually now you have too many things to post. For people that get really overwhelmed by what to post on social, I'm like, okay, let's make it really simple. Let's do a Monday, Wednesday, Friday schedule and just give yourself three categories that you post in. On Mondays, you post sessions that you've done, right? Like recaps or whatever. On Wednesdays, you post.

Nicole (32:07)
Uh-huh.

Dayna (32:27)
the questions that people are asking you. Frequently asked questions, resources that you have, stuff like that. And on Fridays, maybe you post something that is like a feel-good Friday. So it's like, if you're a pet photographer, it's like maybe you have like a funny behind the scenes video or even photo of the dog being like really goofy or you you could even reshare on a Friday, like into your stories. I mean, there's a million, don't we all follow? The only thing I'm on social media for is dog content. So.

Don't we all follow like the feel good accounts?

Nicole (32:55)
heck yeah. Mine is that, that in travel. And I have gotten a few,

actually I'm going to eat tomorrow night. my friend sent me, it was the best espresso martinis in Charlotte. And I was like, well let's go one of those on Friday night. So they work.

Dayna (33:07)
Heck yes.

Okay, so like I think you could really just think about it like that. It's like one day you do sessions, one day you do resources, one day you do feels like just make people happy, give them the feels and it could be happy. It could be like nostalgia, you know, it could be like this is a story of somebody's, know, like didn't want to get photos taken because I'll tell my own pet photography story. I almost didn't get my photos taken with my dogs because I needed a haircut.

Nicole (33:23)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (33:39)
And then I was like, Dana, just do it. And thank God I did, because two weeks later, my eldest dog, we found out that she had a tumor and we had to say goodbye. And now I have these gorgeous photos of her. Yeah, it was really terrible. But like, that's a field story, right? Like my photographer could tell that story in a reel. That's like, this is my client. I mean, obviously you want to get permission before you tell a story like that. It doesn't have to be that complicated. That's kind of a big one. But you know, just like, it's Friday. We're all like,

Nicole (33:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (34:06)
The weekend is here, like make us feel happy, make us feel sad, make us feel nostalgic, like whatever it is. Those can be just that easy. And like stick with that for a couple of months and see how that goes.

Nicole (34:17)
Yeah, I love it. And it's certainly, we have a lot of blooper images that we could probably even just throw off. It's funny blooper image with a funny like, and even an ask like, caption it. Yeah.

Dayna (34:20)
yeah.

I love a caption it, especially with dogs. It's so fun.

People who do like the dog voices, it's so good.

Nicole (34:36)
That is what social media was made for a hundred percent. my gosh. It is, it is funny. So I, I, you know, go to these meetings sometimes with, know, other online business owners and you know, they always like, there'll be people talking about social media, which I, I don't do as much as I need to. And it's, that's my goal to do more 20, 25 it's coming. but anyway, they're always just like, you have the best possible subject. Like it's dogs.

Dayna (34:38)
Truly.

Nicole (35:04)
Could you imagine being an accountant?

Dayna (35:06)
Yeah, come on a lawyer like, you really have to

reach for that. Like you have dogs. It's so easy. Same thing for portrait photographers. It's like you have baby toes. Like just post those. We love them. You know, like it's like this is easy, easy content. I do want to just touch on what you said, Nicole, which is this is kind of a 301 level marketing thing, but having some kind of lead magnet or way for people to get from your social media over to your email list, it doesn't have to be super complicated.

Nicole (35:14)
Yeah!

Yeah, right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dayna (35:33)
It could be a quiz that you created, it could be a PDF that you created, but you should have some kind of link in your social media that allows people to opt in to your email list, right? In some way, shape or form, we wanna make sure that people are getting over to our email list or at least getting over to our website. And maybe on our website, we have like a pop-up where they can join the email list or put in their name and their email in exchange for like some kind of informational download.

And to your point, using a great blog post that you've written and making that into a PDF is, that's a low hanging fruit for a lead magnet.

Nicole (36:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. This is so good. All right. So let's recap here for, let's just do a quick recap. And then I want to ask you for the photographers that are listening and they are very overwhelmed right now. And they're like, I honest to gosh, just have no idea where to start here. So either way, let's start with that and then recap or yeah, but I just want to help. Yep.

Dayna (36:21)
Mm-hmm.

Okay. Okay, so the recap is we're

going to look back at what worked or didn't work last year. Then we're going to start by planning our one rock if we're feeling really overwhelmed or our two rocks. From there, if you're feeling good about that, that's so if you're feeling overwhelmed, just stop there. I want you to really focus on a rock, okay, over everything else. If you're feeling good about that, add a few pebbles in.

Nicole (36:46)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (36:53)
Do those blog, commit to doing those blog posts, especially in your slower season. From there, we're gonna work on our emails and our social media. Now, I am a visual person. I am an organized person. I created a worksheet for you guys so that it'll help you brainstorm through all of these things. Everything we just talked about, you'll walk through it. Okay, what worked last year, what didn't? Here are some rock ideas I have.

Nicole (36:57)
Mm-hmm.

Dayna (37:16)
When am I gonna do them? Making sure that you're getting them scheduled on the calendar. Space to brainstorm out your blog activities. All of that kind of stuff. So I will put that for you guys. We'll share the link in the show notes. But I'll put it for you at, let's put it at thiscan'tbethathard.com slash marketing jar.

Nicole (37:28)
Mm-hmm.

Perfect. One word. Okay. We got it.

Dayna (37:35)
One word, marketing jar. And you

guys can download that there, okay? So if you are getting overwhelmed, what I would say is just take it one step at a time. And I think focusing on a rock is the biggest bang for your buck, even though it might feel like you wanna focus on social media, because it feels like it's like the quote, easiest.

I would really encourage you to resist that urge and instead lean into doing something that is a bit of a bigger lift, but is going to give you a bigger payout because then you're going to be able to do all of your other marketing around that route.

Nicole (38:08)
And I mean, the, basis of it is if you are running a boutique business, so like 1500, $2,000 average sale, like that's not a, Oh, I saw a post and bought it. Like it's not a $10 trinket that they're selling on Instagram. Like this is a big investment. So anytime that we can kind of shift towards making sure we have those rocks, pebbles, um, things covered, then we're building that relationship with those people and, and.

Dayna (38:35)
Yeah.

Nicole (38:37)
All of this, no matter what genre you're in is slightly a long game. know, that, that it's, they might take a minute to realize that they want it, especially pet photography, at least like families are like, they're cute. they're this age. you know, like there's different milestones or high school seniors. Like there's an event or the babies, there's an event and like the baby is born. but with, with dogs, mean, unfortunately there's usually not a time sensitive urgency until the dog's older. And,

So yeah, so it's, it's a long game. anything we can do to make sure that we have that rock, think is critical. And then making sure we're adding those, those earlier steps in there so we can nurture those people.

Dayna (39:16)
You just gave me an idea for a marketing campaign that I just wanna blurt out, which is like, you're right. It's not the same for dogs. We don't have the same sort of milestones. Okay, why not? Let's just create one. What if we just create this idea that on your dog's fifth birthday, you get photos taken. You can just create that tradition for people and start like...

Nicole (39:20)
you

Dayna (39:39)
Do know what I mean? It's like, can't think of an idea that happened on social media. Like, okay, tongue out Tuesday. Remember that was like a thing a while ago. Somebody just decided that that was a thing one day and we all globbed onto it. So like, you know, I wish there was a number that started with an F. Well, five, photography for five, Dana, get your life together. Like, you could just do that, right? Like by the time your dog turns five, you should have had photos taken. put that out there. Just make it a thing.

Nicole (39:40)
Uh-huh.

Yeah, right.

you

Yep. Yeah.

my gosh, that, that is screaming blog post. my gosh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's a great way, at least just from pep photography side, because people do struggle a lot with, you know, the, big reason is we don't know how long we have with our dogs and you experienced that. Right. So it's, but you don't want to be like coming in all morbid with like, Hey, your dog can die anytime. Get some pictures taken. Like, no, no, we need another way. So something like that, like.

Dayna (40:09)
stamping it, right?

So yeah, there's no rules.

Yeah.

Nicole (40:35)
You know, let's celebrate, let's celebrate our dogs. You know, let's, by the time they're five, make sure because you can bring that, that piece in with it being a little bit lighter than like morbid, know? So that allows you to focus on, on the Y from it. I love that.

Dayna (40:44)
Yeah.

Or you

could say, people ask me, when should I get photos taken of my dog? And you should say, I suggest that you should have photos taken three times in your dog's life when they're young, in their middle age, and in their old age. you're the boss, babe. we right now collectively have just decided that photography on your fifth birthday is a thing when you're a dog now, and that all dogs need their photos taken at least three times in their life, at least.

Nicole (41:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

Uh-huh. Yep.

All

Dayna (41:16)
So there, we just fixed it.

Nicole (41:18)
right. So yeah, I mean, you guys like most of the pet photography industry ends up listening to this podcast at some point. So we have the power to actually make this a thing because you're all here. let's do that. Amazing.

Dayna (41:22)
Let's do it!

How about hashtag

fifth birthday photography?

Nicole (41:33)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it have to go to GPT and, and, and, and workshop, workshop something. We'll, come up with a good, we'll come up with a good catchy something. I love it, but yeah.

Dayna (41:36)
Work it out. Somebody make it cute.

Make it cute,

chat it in, tell it, like, put it on social, tag Nicole. Nicole, you tag me, and then we're gonna make it a thing. I love it.

Nicole (41:49)
Yeah, uh-huh, and we'll make it a thing.

my gosh, this has been so good. if any of you guys still don't have ideas of how you want to market your business, well, go listen to this again. Cause I think, I think we've got you covered for the year, but truly don't be overwhelmed. and once you do these, like once you do that first rock, it's easy to do it again next year, later this year. and then once you get the hand, the hang of like your first couple of blog posts,

It becomes a lot less scary, a lot easier. Once you start to dig into that email marketing, you know, Dana and I both agree that it is a non-negotiable. If you want to run a profitable, sustainable business, like once you figure that out, it becomes easy. then social media, if you're doing those other things becomes no brainer. And, it's just. All of these things are just such an important piece to, get your message out of like why we do this. So remember.

Dayna (42:32)
It really does.

Nicole (42:43)
Why do you photograph families? Why do you photograph babies? Why do you photograph dogs? And like, we aren't marketing to like, sell something. We're marketing to give this experience to our clients. mean, Dana, you can speak for this for like how, now that it's in the past, you know, you, you lost your dog. Like how important are those memories?

Dayna (43:04)
they're literally everywhere in my house. I'm on a desktop or like I'm surrounded by them. They are all around my whole office. Like they're the most important thing and I am so grateful that that happened and I would have been, I really would have been like just devastated if that didn't happen. Devastated. Even though I've taken approximately eight million cell phone photos of my dog, it's not the same. I don't have that moment with us, you know, it's just, it's just not the same.

Nicole (43:06)
No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dayna (43:33)
It's not the same as having professional photos taken. as all of your ideal client, I'm just telling you right now, we want what you're selling. You just have to tell us why we want it.

Nicole (43:40)
you

Yeah. Yeah. And, and let people know that it's available. Cause again, most people don't know the pet photography is a thing and even, you know, family photography, they know it's a thing, but people get busy. like you need to market our business and just change that mind shift, mind shift, a little bit of what you're thinking about it. And if it's feeling yucky and salesy, just like, no, I'm providing a service. I'm not forcing anyone to buy this and they are going to be so happy when they do. And then it becomes a lot easier. So, my gosh, so good.

Dayna (43:45)
Yeah.

Absolutely.

Nicole (44:11)
Dana, again, thank you. Let people know again where they can get the freebie.

Dayna (44:15)
Okay, go

to, the website is thiscan'tbethathard.com slash marketingjar, and that's where you can download that.

Nicole (44:27)
Perfect. And then let us know where we can find you on social so we can make sure to let you know when we come with our, with our hashtag.

Dayna (44:35)
Yeah, okay, so you can find

me business wise at at this can't be that hard, but you can also find me. I think for the pet photographers, find me on my dog's Instagram, which is where I'll be able to share all of your beautiful photos, and that is the trio of trouble.

Nicole (44:50)
my gosh, that's an amazing name. So good. So good. all right guys, Dana, thank you so much for being here and everyone. hope you, yeah, of course found this really helpful. I know I did and I will see you next week.

Dayna (44:56)
Thank you for having me.

Talk to you guys later.