Pressure, Presence, Meaning with Alain Breton

A trilingual childhood, a summer camp “gig” for a few bucks, and then a single moment that changed everything: the mic flipped on, and Alain Breton realized interpreting had a name and a future. I sit down with Alain to unpack how a life steeped in French, Spanish, and English turned into a craft built on meaning, nerve, and an appetite for challenge.

The heart of our conversation is depth. Not age. Depth. Alain makes the case that great interpreters aren’t just fluent; they’re world-literate. Travel, odd jobs, and real-world stumbles add weight to your mental toolbox so you can keep sense intact when speakers sprint, pivot, or argue in real time. That’s why he loves parliamentary debates: no slides, no prep, just rapid exchanges where meaning is your only compass. We also get into flow state—how interest plus difficulty locks attention and lifts performance—and why following your curiosity matters as much as mastering terminology.

We don’t shy away from the hard rooms. Alain shares the emotional cost of interpreting top-secret briefings about child exploitation and how visualization, so helpful in clear storytelling, can also intensify trauma. He walks us through practical ways to reset: mental anchors in the moment, then intentional decompression afterward. Pro wrestling is his palate cleanser, a reminder that it’s okay to choose something playful and harmless to break the loop.

You’ll leave with three habits to level up: record yourself and review five minutes at a time, study seasoned interpreters to see how they keep coherence under stress, and build a richer life so your understanding runs deeper than any glossary. We also spotlight Found in Interpretation, Alain’s podcast co-hosted with Brian Bickford, which brings voices from parliaments to refugee camps and expands how we think about this profession.

If this conversation sparked ideas or confidence in your own path, tap follow, share it with a colleague, and leave a quick review. Your feedback helps more language professionals find us and grow their craft.

-----------------------------------------

Check out their podcast!
Found in Interpretation

Chapters

• 0:00 A Childhood Woven With Three Languages
• 3:18 The First Booth And A Life-Changing Switch
• 8:03 Why Depth Beats Age In Interpreting
• 12:43 Flow, Challenge, And Loving The Work
• 17:18 Parliamentary Fire: Debates As Trial By Speed
• 23:03 The Dark Side: Interpreting Trauma
• 27:43 Visualization, Mental Anchors, And Reset Rituals
• 32:13 Three Practical Habits To Level Up
• 36:03 Found In Interpretation: Stories Beyond Our Silo
• 40:33 Closing Thoughts And Where To Find Alain

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:39

There are moments in life that don't feel like turning points until you look back and realize they were. Welcome back, Branded Bunch, to another episode of the Brand the Interpreter Podcast. This is your host, Mireya Perez, showing up again for you this month with another great episode. For our guest today, language wasn't a chosen tool. It was the air that he breathed in conversations with family on summer trips to New York and in the chatter of kids at camp where French, Spanish, and English just collided. And long before he knew that the word interpreting existed, he was already doing it, helping kids make sense of one another for a couple of dollars and maybe a lot of laughs. But then one day came the moment that changed everything: a university assignment, a booth, a headset, and the first time the microphone flipped on. It wasn't just another job, it was the moment that he realized there was a name for this work, and it was the work that he wanted to do. In this episode, Alan Breton from Canada joins us to go deeper than vocabulary lists and language rules. We explore why depth of experience, not age, not polish, not jargon, gives interpreters their resilience. We talk about flow, why it feels like being in the zone, and how it keeps you anchored when speakers speed up, change tone, or veer off script. Alan also shares stories with us from the front lines. Why parliamentary debates are among his favorite gigs. Imagine that. How meaning becomes your compass when the pressure is on, and how some assignments linger long after the session ends. He gets real about mental cost of interpreting difficult content, the visualization habits that help him stay grounded, and the rituals that help him reset afterward. By the end of our conversation, you'll hear three practical takeaways for your own practice. From recording yourself to studying seasoned interpreters to building a life rich enough to support this work. And that's rich in fulfillment. But of course you knew that already. We also talk about found in interpretation, the podcast Alan co-hosts, and the very real stories they've heard from interpreters working in completely different realities around the world. So if you're tuning in as a bilingual professional that's thinking about making the leap, or if you're an interpreter looking to deepen your craft, this episode offers not just insight, but encouragement. Without further ado, help me welcome Alan Breton to the show. Alan, welcome to the show. So happy to have you.

SPEAKER_03: 3:49

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02: 3:51

I said your name, but I want you to say your name the way you say it in your show because I want our listeners to hear the difference between my pronunciation and the actual pronunciation.

SPEAKER_03: 4:02

Well, I haven't heard your pronunciation, but here it goes. Hello, hello. My name is Alain Breton, and uh welcome to um Randall.

SPEAKER_02: 4:12

Rand the interpreter. Yeah, see, I would never.

SPEAKER_03: 4:17

Alain Breton. That's the uh French version. Uh but my my name is spelled A-L-A-I-N. So uh people don't really know how to pronounce my name. So sometimes it sounds like some people say like Alaine, which I really don't like because it sounds like Elaine in Seinfeld, you know, like Elaine. So it sounds like a like a woman's name rather. But Alain, think of Alain Delon. I don't know if uh your listeners will know this famous uh good old French actor. Um but uh Alain, that's and that's the English equivalent is Alain. Alan? Alan? Yeah, Alan. That's I thought I said Alan. Yeah, well, I like it better than Alain.

SPEAKER_02: 5:01

Well, good, I was pretty close. I think my audience by now knows I'm horrible with name pronunciation and I butcher people's names, even though I practice before we get on. And then the moment that it's time, you know, it's go time, wah wah, wah. It just never comes to fruition the way I'd like. So anyway, Ellen, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you. Very happy to be able to have this conversation with you on the podcast. And I want to start our conversation today with what my audience is pretty much getting used to, if not already, have been used to, the question that I ask all my guests, which is taking us back in memory lane to a fond childhood memory of yours.

SPEAKER_03: 5:48

Now that I think of it, um I think that one of um I'll link the memory with uh what uh we do as a living is being interpreters. So I grew up in Quebec City, and um Quebec is a French-speaking province in Canada, and everyone here in Quebec speaks French. Um most of my family members, uh, I mean, all of my family members uh don't speak English. My dad uh spoke English, but let's say my mom doesn't speak English, and um for my father, it was very important that I'd learn English. And on my mother's side of the family, they're from Latin America and they all live uh around New York. And as I said, for my father was really important for me to learn English. So although I was familiar with English because we traveled a lot to New York in the States uh when I was a kid, um I spent uh all of my summers in Vancouver. Um because I have an aunt who lives there, but of which I was also going to um a summer camp with other kids. So I would just spend my summers there and uh you know naturally uh speak English. And at the camp, um, in the cabin that I was uh in Gibson, uh there were several Mexicans, and um so I basically ended up speaking Spanish a lot at the camp because I also speak Spanish because of my mother's side. And the the Mexicans were there and they were all hanging out together, and the English uh kids were all hanging out together, and the Mexicans didn't know how to speak English or did not want to practice, and obviously uh the uh English-speaking kids were always asking me the question: Do you speak Mexican? And I was like, No, Mexican is not a language, it's called Spanish. And after people figure out that I could speak both, uh basically uh I was being paid to interpret. Wow, so I was making money, a buck or two, or something like that. But there were all these rich kids who were coming from far away, and um they I was getting paid or uh giving some perks because uh I I could um I could translate uh both uh Spanish and uh English uh at the camp. Talk about that was my first uh interpreting gig ever, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 8:27

Yeah, I was gonna say talk about a glimpse into your future. Little did you know, huh?

SPEAKER_03: 8:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I didn't know it was um, you know, it was something that I was going to do my I didn't know I was going to make a living with it.

SPEAKER_02: 8:40

So trilingual growing up. I mean, aside from the summer camp, did you feel that growing up it was you were putting these languages to to good use? Or how did that come to be in terms of you continuing to practice? Uh especially since you're saying that the household maybe wasn't necessarily uh bilingual or trilingual. What was that like for you growing up?

SPEAKER_03: 9:05

Well, uh with my mother, I've always spoken Spanish. And uh with my father, French naturally. And um when I that that was in Quebec, and my mom was going to visit her her her mother uh or my our aunts in um and I would see my cousins in New York. And when I when I was in New York, then it was bilingual with Spanish and English. So I I've always been into languages, and they always came pretty easily to me. Um, I it was just such a natural thing, and I never really for me, it was just um inconceivable to just speak one language. I've always spoken several languages, so I would say that uh everything always came naturally, and you know, it it came through curiosity of uh the material that is provided in language. Um, for instance, with English, when I was uh a teenager, I was a huge sci-fi fan. I loved Star Trek The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and uh all of these uh shows uh back in the 90s, and I was watching them in the original version, of course, because I understood English and it was never an issue for me. Um, and when I when I was older, I traveled a bit in Latin America and I lived in Barcelona. So I spoke Spanish and I never really uh so by keeping all of these languages fresh in my mind, uh, I never really felt I had really had to study them as much. It was more learning through uh learning new things through experience.

SPEAKER_02: 10:43

At what age do you recall being aware that the use of language could be could be done in a professional way? Meaning, when did you realize you could make more than a buck, like in summer camp with your different languages?

SPEAKER_03: 11:00

Um when I was in my 20s, I didn't really know what to do with myself. And uh I I've graduated from high school and I've tried a few things in college here and there. And to be honest, I was a bit lost. And I had a friend who um this was doing a bachelor's degree in translation. And I was like, oh, okay. Um, and before um I decided to uh do that bachelor's degree, uh I lived a little bit in South Korea, I visited Japan, I did in Vancouver for a couple of years, then I was doing you know like bartending jobs and things like that. And so I came back to Quebec City and I thought, well, you know what, I don't know what to do with myself, so I'll just be a translator. And I I to be honest, I've never really liked it. Um because I like to talk and I like to meet people and just to think just about having an office job or maybe working for the federal government, uh, was it was more like uh a means to an end uh rather than something I was passionate about. But then uh the first semester, um, their program director came to see us and he said, um there's an extra exchange program that are available for uh people who are studying in translation. And you can go to several places, you can go to France, uh Spain, or uh there were a few other locations. So I thought, okay, maybe France or Spain, but that would be great. And I put it in the back burner. And then um, after a year at um university, um I basically um we had uh a small uh office uh for student. We had uh we were provided the students were providing uh translation services uh in a small um you know branch uh in our in our department at university. And and back in those days, I was in charge of communications. Remember, that was before Facebook. And communication basically meant uh answering emails. So, and one day I got an email, and the email said, We're looking for interpreters for an event at university. And I was like, uh, well, we're translators, we're not interpreters, and I didn't really know anything about interpretation. And um some uh other students were uh said to me, Well, our program director is actually an interpreter. So, okay, yeah, I spoke to him because I uh I talked to him about the trips overseas. And um I went to see him and he said, Hey, Alain, he says, uh, why don't you try it? Why don't you be in it? Why don't you uh try interpretation? And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, and my mind, I didn't say I didn't say it openly, but I was a bit stunned and I was like, uh, you know, I was this this kid, and I was like, oh, what's interpretation? And uh, what is he talking about? And he says, you know what? He said, um, I think you would be uh you have potential to become an interpreter. And I was like, really? And you have to remember, uh, I started university a bit late because um I know I did all these things. I lived in Korea, went to visit Japan and Asia and lived in Vancouver and all of that. So I was a bit older than, let's say I was not 20 or 21, I was uh, I don't know, 25, 25-ish. And so I was already a little bit older, so maybe he saw something in me that I couldn't back then. So he said, Well, you're not ready yet to work for uh one of the uh major uh supplier of interpreting services in Quebec City, but I know someone who would like to uh you know introduce you so to to interpretation. And you can also give him the gig uh here at Laval University. So I was like, okay, so he gives me the email of uh that uh other interpreter who um who was in in his 40s, and I was in my 20s, so he was about 20 years older than I am, and he said to me, Um uh, oh, um, I think you're a bit too young to become an interpreter. And I said, Okay, well, um, and I tried to show my abilities, my my language abilities. And then he said, Um, and it remember this conversation happens in French. And um he said, Okay, um, what's uh conseil d'administration in English? Conseil d'administration, uh, and I said uh board of directors, and he's oh, you didn't say something like council of administrators, you didn't fall into the trap. And I was like, Oh, that was a test. He says, Okay, I'll try you in the booth. What? That was it, and he says, Okay, I'll try you in the booth. So um, a couple of weeks later, uh, I there's this huge event at university, there's hundreds of people in the conference room, and I see a booth for the first time in my life, and he told me to wear a shirt and pants, which I didn't really have back then, you know, being a student, uh cheese and t-shirt was the norm.

SPEAKER_02: 15:57

And um, okay, but you did have pants.

SPEAKER_03: 16:00

Yeah, I did. Um, yeah, I had to buy them. I had to buy them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did not have pants, I had jeans back in the day, but I did have to buy pants and I went to buy a shirt. And um yeah, and uh, I uh I ended up in the booth and uh as the then after a while I looked at him and uh I really wanted to try and I was really eager. And when he turned on the microphone, everything changed for me. That's when I said, Wow, you get you can get paid for this. That's it. I mean, I just get to talk all the time in another language. That is so cool. Oh my god, that's what I want to do. And um, and then um I asked him, How much how much does an interpreter make like like for a gig like this? And he he tells me uh the amount, and I was like, Oh my god, like I was on student loans and uh you know getting a bit of uh bursaries and uh try to get a thousand here, five hundred there. And then I was like, it it's as if someone had said, okay, you just won your ticket to the lottery or something. So um yeah, and uh that's when uh I said, okay, um I I should become I I will become an interpreter. But and it was not a straight hour from there, but that's the uh that's wow, that's the gist of it.

SPEAKER_02: 17:21

That's how they started. How amazing. And I think it says a lot too about the power of um, you know, one instructor's words to be able to give you something that, as you mentioned, you may have not have been able to identify yourself. Maybe at some point in your translation career you would have come across an opportunity a little later, but you know, to just be given the opportunity to have some insight into what that world is like. I think that always it I love the stories when an instructor is the one that sees the potential in an individual while the individual themselves do not. Um, and then they go try it out and it's like a whole new world. I love how you said turned on the mic and that was it. It was like you knew then and there, which is so cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 18:09

It was like love at first sight. Totally. For me, that that's what it was. Um, I I to this day I can't imagine myself doing anything else. Um, this is um this is the like the coolest for me. This is the coolest job in the world to be an interpreter. You get to travel, you get to meet people, you're always listening to uh what other people are saying, you get you have access to uh secret meetings and confidential uh like confidential matters, and you get to uh see uh what happens with uh politicians when the when the cameras aren't there. Um if you have if you're good enough and have access to that, you get you get to see the world in a whole different way. And it's I think that the hardest thing in life is uh for a lot of people is to get out of their own bubble. You know, you you have your own routine, you have your your like your maybe your spouse, your kids, and you do your things and just getting out of, and some people okay, once every three year, two, three years, they're gonna travel, you're gonna get a peek at the world for a couple of weeks and then go back home and get back to the routine, and that's it. It's really hard to get out of the bubble. And when you and you have friends, well, you choose your friends, and usually you choose people who are just like you. So we spend our lives in our in our silo and we don't even notice it. But we're interpreters, and we get to travel, we get to see different people, different realities, different points of view, and on top of that, we get to actually be in their in their skin for a little while. That's amazing. I mean, you I mean, the things that I've seen ever since I'm an interpreter, just because I was actually in certain situations and certain things, uh, sometimes I'm shocked, sometimes it's very sad to see certain situations, and sometimes it's like, oh my god, I didn't know this happened. Or uh, for instance, uh, right now there's a scandal in the news in Quebec where I'm from. And um, I knew about I knew it seven, I've learned about it seven years ago, and now it's in the news. And now I'm I've been writing some of my interpreter friends who were in that and those gigs for the government. And um, and I said, hey, now it's not, you know, it's not confidential anymore. We can openly talk about it. And I was like, and for years, you know, I've been thinking, oh my god, someday this story is gonna blow up. I've been thinking, and now it this is uh I was watching the news again this morning, and it's Blowing up for a week now. So, and so we as interpreters, we are at the forefront of what goes on in society. Um, sometimes I get to tell my friends about, you know, uh, this is this is what's going on, and people are like, What are you talking about? And then a few months or a few years later, people are like, Oh wow, I didn't know. And I was like, Yep, I've been telling you, this is what's going on. And sometimes very few people believe me.

SPEAKER_02: 20:58

It's like the closest thing to being an actor, except actors are usually doing or portraying a fictitious character, whereas interpreters are actually in real life sharing stories and messages of you know, real life events or of real life people, but you do get to step in, like you mentioned, into the skin of this other individual per se, you know, as you are interpreting. That's that's a great way to put it. I know that I've had a lot of bilingual professionals that have considered for a long time the world of interpreting, and um they just couldn't see themselves doing that as a profession for whatever reason. And so they entered a different profession while still having that calling. And years later, they're they're saying, I'm just going to do it, right? I want to get into interpreting. How do I do that? That's usually the question that I get. I'm gonna go from this career to I want to do this career now. I've always wanted to do interpreting, I just didn't think it was a profession. And now, of course, thanks to um, you know, the internet and social media, people are able to see that indeed this is an actual profession. And for some people, it it's been a calling that they've ignored for a while. And so now they're trying to get into it. So I love when interpreters share the insight of that moment, that aha moment for them when they know that this is what they want to do, because hopefully that's an experience that one day that bilingual professional will also experience, knowing that they could step into this world and that it isn't boring as well. I mean, it could be maybe. I had one interpreter say that they their first gig was uh interpreting at a conference about rocks.

SPEAKER_03: 22:55

Rocks can be very interesting. They're old. They're old. Rocks are very old, and you know, you never know.

SPEAKER_02: 23:03

I've been also reading a book about um it's called Flow. And it it it does actually, I've this is my second time reading it. I really enjoy that book, and it it uh basically talks about how um an individual enters the state of flow when the mind is challenged and doing something that they enjoy. So it has to be this, you know, this this dual component. You can't do something that you enjoy and be and not be challenged and enter the state of flow. So it gives an example of maybe a tennis player that goes into play. This is somebody that enjoys the game. But if they enter the game with someone that has lesser skills than they, it's no longer challenging. So they no longer enjoy the game the way in which they would if they had somebody that met them at that same skill set and challenge them. And I feel like interpreters, when they enter the booth or they enter an encounter and they are challenged, I think that that's the connection that really gets us going into our minds are actually working so hard in the moment that you know it just it just brings us into the state of flow. And that's how we are able to make the connection as to why we enjoy it. If an interpreter doesn't enter the state of flow, they're not being challenged enough, I don't think. And maybe it's time to take it up a notch, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03: 24:30

Well, um, I it's um it's all about interest, right? So I personally uh I'll give an example. Um over the weekend, uh I was doing this um assignment for uh Hockey Canada, and I'm a huge hockey fan. I've been watching the uh Stanley Cup playoffs, and I've been watching every game, although uh my team, the Montreal Canadians, uh have been eliminated. But uh I don't care, I just watch the games and uh I want to see where this will lead. And then I happened to be uh over the weekend at a gig that actually was it was a seminar for uh coaches who are uh teaching uh teenagers um and they're they're training teenagers, and I was like, and then they were showing clips of the young players and what to do and not to do, and then when I watched uh a game afterwards, I was like, oh, and now I'm I get to see things that I didn't see before. So and I loved the interpreting part. So not only I was interested in the topic, but I really enjoyed interpreting and I was learning at the same time. I mean, what a combination! So um, yeah, um, it may mean maybe um the the interpreter that was doing the rocks, well, maybe they didn't like geology.

SPEAKER_01: 25:52

That's that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02: 25:54

State of flow. It's gonna have those two components for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 25:58

But one point that you you brought up a bit earlier, uh, that I like to come back to is uh you were uh telling me about some interpreters that are doing something and they didn't know they could make money with interpret, not make a living rather with interpretation, and then they decided to do it after a while. But I can tell you that um when I first had that phone call with the old interpreter who uh asked me the uh board of directors question.

SPEAKER_00: 26:28

You the you mean the older interpreter?

SPEAKER_03: 26:31

Because it's well, but now now it's been because that that story is over 20, it's 20, it's 20 years ago, and now he's retired and um he's uh 73 now. So um okay, okay, forgive it. I'll I would call him seasoned interpreter. Well, maybe I hope he's not watching. So um, and um, but but the the the point he had, I was 25, and he the first thing he said to me was, I think you're a bit too young to become an interpreter. And um and I said, Why? He said, Well, a good interpreter is around 40 years old, and I was I would I thought back back then, um, I didn't want to miss my opportunity because of my age, but I really I was really wondering why he said that. But today I realized that it's not about the age as much as the experience, and in order to be a good interpreter, you need to have seen a few things in your life. You need to you a lot of interpreters actually came in later in life after doing other things, and I think that makes them better interpreters because I think that you need a bit of depth in your general culture and your knowledge. Um, if you just start interpreting and that's the first thing you do, I mean, you're 20 years old, let's imagine you're 20 years old and you say, I'm gonna be an interpreter, and that's all you do, then you're not gonna understand several references that people might make for certain things. Um, if um someone talks about, let's say um uh I I met um a young lady at uh my university, and no fault, no fault of her own. Um, I asked her if she knew who Richard Nixon is. And she never heard of him. And I was like, What? What do you mean you don't know Richard Nixon? I mean, and and uh and I said, How old are you? And she says, I'm 22. I was like, all right, I mean, okay, let's forget that we're not talking to Americans here, right? We're talking to uh Quebecois, French Canadian, live in French in French-speaking world. We have different references as Americans. So uh so I don't want your audience to say, well, she didn't just know it. I mean, we are in a different country, and we on top of that in Canada, we have a different silo, which is the French silo. But I was like, oh, okay. And then I was asking a few questions, general knowledge questions about here and there, and I noticed that there was a gap in my own understanding of the world and hers, and no fault of her own, she's just a bit too young. And and and I can't blame him for that. I mean, there are a bunch of things that I didn't know in my 20s that I know today, because over time you develop some experience, and I think that actually it makes us better interpreters to uh travel, to see the world, to do other things, to try and uh even fail at some projects, and then becoming an interpreter, and then and when that happens, because being a good a good conference interpreter is not about your skills or your terminology, it's understanding what is being said, and if you don't understand what is being said, whatever your language skills, it won't work. So, but when you're young, it's just it's just no, it's no nobody's fault. You're young, so it's very hard to understand the wide range of things that you are facing when you are uh at a conference, unless you only do one thing. If you only do one thing, you specialize in one thing, but you won't make much of a living because it's I I can't think of except if you work at parliament and you've done your whole career at parliament and that's all you do. But if you are a conference interpreter, just like me, who is independent and takes uh contracts here and there for civil agencies, uh you don't know what's coming next. And but if you have that depth of knowledge because you you have maturity and experience, then you'll you won't be afraid of anything. So um I love that.

SPEAKER_02: 30:55

I don't think I've ever heard it um in that in that sense, uh, you know, when it comes to seasoned interpreters or uh, you know, the age, the age difference between interpreters, the new generation of language professionals, for instance, um about depth. I like that. I think that that makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_03: 31:18

So for young for young people, and I would say if if you're in your 20s and you want to become an interpreter, um two things. Don't be afraid of AI. It's gonna be there, but there will still need human interpreters. Number one, and number two, travel, see the world, get do some other things, get some jobs, and keep it in the back of your mind. But it don't only be an interpreter, do things, get experience, and with that exp the everything that you will do along the way will serve as a tool when you're at conferences.

SPEAKER_02: 31:58

Absolutely, yeah. I believe that wholeheartedly too. I think it's like the um songwriter that wants to talk about a sad love song without ever having had their heart broken. How do you bring that feeling in? So yeah, definitely. Love that, love that depth part. So there you go. For those of you that are listening that are bilingual professionals in other fields. Um, Alan just said you're the perfect, actually, at the perfect moment, like the perfect experience to go ahead and dive in. If that's what you've been thinking about, it's time to break into what you've been calling or has been calling for you to do.

SPEAKER_03: 32:36

Yeah, uh, age is an asset this time.

SPEAKER_02: 32:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 32:40

No, and so many fields were like, oh, I'm too old to do this, too old to do that. No, uh, quite the opposite. If you're uh uh one of the best interpreters that I know started around he was 49 or 50 years old, and he's one of the best interpreters that I know now. Why? Because of his knowledge. Uh, not the lawn, I mean, language knowledge was always there, but it's not about that. It's about that he knows a lot of things. So uh I'm here, I'm with him in the in the booth and I can trust him. And I listened to his performance and I'm like, oh, I like it. And at first, when he first came in, uh he was oh, um uh he I think that he was a bit unsure because at first he was like, Well, uh, you guys have been doing this for a number of years, and uh, you know, maybe he had that feeling of a bit of insecurity in the very beginning. And after a year, I I ended up like we meet every once in a while in the booth, and after a year, I said, Wow, um not only uh progress when it comes to your ability, but um I can see that uh you all your prior knowledge, uh you've been able to access your toolbox, which is all your of your prior knowledge.

SPEAKER_02: 33:49

That's so amazing. I love that. Today, Alan, what has been, do you think, one of your favorite, if you can share um encounters or gigs that you have done? Uh, and what was the topic that it was related to? And why was it that it it's become one of your favorite that you've you've covered as an interpreter?

SPEAKER_03: 34:11

Well, um right now I've I've been working a lot, um, parliamentary interpretation for the legislative assembly of the Northwest Territories. So if you look on a map, um, especially for Americans listening, there's Alaska. You know, um this is my map. Um top uh the Western state. Well, to the right, there's Yukon, and then there's a big land mass in Canada, and it's called the Northwest Territories, and they have a legislative assembly there, and French is actually one of their official languages, so is English, and so is uh so are several uh indigenous languages.

SPEAKER_00: 34:53

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03: 34:54

Uh so uh I work, uh I do parliamentary interpretation for uh Northwest Territories, and I love it. Um, I love the okay, uh not the commissions and the budget and all of that, of course. It can be a bit it can be long and quite boring. Sometimes they will look at a budget and it was like, well, line this line on that page. Uh why are we uh putting them so much money in that? Okay. But when you have the parliamentary debates, because this is as crazy and unexpected as it can ever be, you have it's it's like a competition, it's like a verbal fight. One side asks a question. I mean, and then you have to understand the British parliamentary uh system that we have in Canada. So you have the opposition party and you have the government, and then you have uh a member of the legislative assembly who uh stands up and says and reads, and they have two minutes tops, and it's there's a countdown, and they're like, Mr. Speaker, because they talk to the speaker of the house in order to ask a question, saying, Mr. Speaker, uh the Minister of Health and Social Services promised to uh raise uh nurses' uh salaries because their working conditions are terrible, yada yada, yada. And what's the minister gonna do about it? And then the minister, and then suddenly uh the speaker of the house stops and then uh gives the floor to the minister, and the minister says, No, we gave them a bunch of money and uh they're all happy. And they they do verbal exchanges like that for uh two hours at every session, and you don't have the questions in advance, you don't know the topics, you don't know anything, you just know that someone, and you don't even know who, someone is gonna get up and speak as quickly as they can, reading, and then try to trick someone else on the other side, and that's what they'll do. So it's okay. Sometimes some conferences, oh, I'm a bit nervous because I didn't get the documents from the client, and the client send it five minutes before, and I'm upset. Well, you can't, you're not cut for parliamentary interpretation if you think like that. Because, and this is the craziest thing you can do. Um, so it is uh it is my favorite one because you were talking earlier about the fact that when we're challenged, we can grow. Um, I've I've been doing this for about four years now, and I can tell you, um, this is um you can't be an autopilot. Uh, you are at the edge of your seat all the time. So uh that would be it. That would be it.

SPEAKER_02: 37:40

Yeah, no, I mean that's definitely impromptu. I I would not be able to meet that that demand um because I do come from a world of send the slides, send the agenda, set the program. I think the only thing that comes maybe close to it is speaking about board meetings, the public comment at board meetings, in which you know they've got limited amount of time to speak on an agenda item. And they also will write a script, they meaning the the public will write a script and will try to read it as fast as possible to squeeze in the the topic or the uh comment in that three you know minute period. That's probably about the closest that I've experienced. And even then it's so challenging because yeah, you don't get the public comment, you know, ahead of time to prepare and speed reading on a topic that could be so random. Yeah. So I commend you for that. That's definitely challenging. Yeah, and only there's only a specific type of interpreter that can say, I enjoy that.

SPEAKER_03: 38:49

Well, it's uh it's about, I mean, um, there are all kinds of topics for all kinds of personalities.

SPEAKER_02: 38:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 38:56

So uh true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You you can't uh if you're nervous, uh you can't do that one.

SPEAKER_02: 39:03

Yeah, don't do not accept that assignment. Alan, I mean, there's the ones that we really enjoy, and then they're the experience that we're like, I don't think I'll ever touch that one again. Have you ever come across a a challenging assignment or gig, however you call it, and that you're like, uh, yikes, that one, not again.

SPEAKER_03: 39:24

Um, I do um, I don't know how much I can describe on the podcast, but there was uh one instance that comes to mind where um it was a um top secret meeting uh for the government um with uh provincial and the federal government, provincial governments uh and uh the federal government, and um they were basically uh giving an update on terrorism and uh how certain groups online were um targeting children um to um do all kinds of horrible things. Uh the children that are being manipulated online, and they were saying uh there what the technique were techniques were and what these uh children be asked to do and things like that. And I was not prepared because these are top level meetings and they don't provide you any information. You just you're dropped there and boom, okay. You you don't know before you're in, there's no way to prepare. Uh, and I heard that, and uh I was I was uh kind of lost faith in humanity for a couple of hours, yeah. Because as I said earlier, we live in our own bubble. I I don't know anything about you know what these police officers and the investigators do, and nobody does, right? And then um yeah, um that and uh if you have children and then you imagine your own children uh and you're like, oh wow, they're online on their phones and they're doing their thing. Um is everything all right? You know, and then you start looking at you know, you start thinking, oh, what if it's my own kid? And I don't I'm not I just don't know because I'm sure that several uh parents uh of children that go through these horrible situations where uh maybe they didn't know either. I don't know, I don't I can't just imagine. So that I would say that um very rarely uh I would I would go into meetings like that, but over time and with experience now, I I think of maybe you you're never you can never get used to it, of course. But um the first time it happened, I can tell you that uh I I yeah I I I had tears. I cried. Yeah, I I after uh uh I was it was so emotional.

SPEAKER_02: 42:03

Yeah, emotionally challenged, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 42:05

Yeah, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_02: 42:07

I had an uh a guest actually um some time ago, that that episode I I did title it The Dark Side of Interpreting because this particular interpreter um no while no longer covers that type of assignment, was uh one of the interpreters for um cases of human trafficking. And you know, at to as much as as he was able to gave us sort of an insight of what that's like, uh, you know, being an interpreter for that type of assignments, which by the way, that not many interpreters accept because of the nature of the topic, um, and and everything that he needed to do in order to be able to be uh mentally well uh after, right? And and as you mentioned, there's only so much you can do uh in in that specific area as an interpreter, because you're going, you know, the the skin that you're wearing, to use your words, is usually the victim's skin in order to be able to convey what was happening, especially if they were, you know, hearings um or that of the family members and what they went through. And so that he only was able to do for a very short period of time. But so many cases just really change it, just changed his view of the world, right? It was just for him, it was like it was something that, as you mentioned, lived in a certain bubble coming from a military background, he understood the you know, the the ugly side of the world, but this was something that was way different. So I can only well, I don't even want to imagine, you know, that particular moment for you, especially having heard something like that. But I yeah, I I could agree. I I wouldn't want to be involved in that again.

SPEAKER_03: 44:00

The thing is it's the mind is a tricky thing, and the way I interpret, um, the way I I've stopped sometimes and I've tried to analyze how my and without reading really about it. And it's really kind of hard to find some research uh for interpretation and what happens with interpreters. But in my case, uh whenever I'm speaking, um and whenever I'm interpreting as well, I always see flashes of images. So um whenever I'm I'm speaking to you right now, and as I'm describing the story, uh it's like my third eye, I I would see the story like a movie. And whenever I tell a story or whenever I'm interpreting, when there's a good speaker and I like and then and there's a topic that I that I can easily follow, um then I just basically I describe the movie that I see in my head. That's basically what I do. So I can I I like for instance, earlier I was telling you about the nurses and uh like the healthcare system in Canada. Well, I could see the nurses in my head, I could see the hospital, I could see uh like like there are some uh images that come to mind. And when that's a great thing, it's a great asset, but when I did that difficult uh interpretation, the same thing happened. I suddenly started seeing these terrible situations that they were describing. So it was not if it all if I only if I was only reading the words, let's say I'm reading an article and they're describing something, okay, yeah, and move on. But when you're interpreting and you're on someone else's skin, as we were saying, then suddenly all of that comes together. And then I start picturing the situation in my mind, and I start living the situation through the movie that I make in my mind. So, what's the next thing that happened? I started putting my children's face in that movie. But I I don't choose it, I this is just the way the mind sometimes drifts. And suddenly I'm like in the middle of the game, I'm like, okay, blank, okay, stay focused. And I gotta tell myself, okay, stay focused. And then you I'm giving myself a mental anchor in order to uh avoid the mind drifting. So when with over over time and experience, you get to do that, but when it was the first time, and then uh it was uh it was a bit surprising.

SPEAKER_02: 46:53

So uh yeah, that the that's like the uh process of visualization as an interpreting technique, yeah. When we when we listen to what we hear as in a movie like sequence, because you know we're we're storytellers and and love stories by nature, just as humans. You know, that's that that's sort of how I think history has always demonstrated that we're that type of creature. So it's natural for for some of us to envision what it is that we're hearing in a story-like sequence. And then, like you say, the brain automatically makes the connection with uh something that's familiar. So in this case, you're associating children with if you have your own children, or you know, it becomes like very personal, particularly, I imagine, because we are interpreting in first person, and it, you know, it just sounds like it's something that's coming from us. And I and I imagine that the the difficult part aside from as you're interpreting is how do you make that disconnection once you're done? Yeah, because it's it's it goes into the vicarious trauma that many interpreters have spoken about that can happen when you when you're doing challenging encounters such as that or topics such as that, um, that it just becomes something that eventually affects you physically, right? You don't even know it.

SPEAKER_03: 48:19

Well, um uh pro wrestling. I watch pro wrestling. This is, I mean, because if I try to watch the news after a long day of interpretation, I just start interpreting the news.

SPEAKER_02: 48:36

It's that switch you can't turn off.

SPEAKER_03: 48:39

Exactly. But with pro wrestling, hey, hey, there's the guy, and he took the chair and then he slammed him on the table or or something like that. And it is so uh okay, uh, to all the pro wrestling fans, I love it, but it's so stupid. It's so stupid that you're watching it in. Who believes this stuff? Yeah, well, who believes nobody does. I mean, I call it soap opera for men, and it is so silly that this is to me uh the best way to unplug uh watching grown-up men in underwear uh in underwear, um body slamming each other. This is like with tables, ladders, and chairs.

SPEAKER_01: 49:32

Take note, everyone. I love it. I've never thought about that. Next time I need to disconnect.

SPEAKER_03: 49:40

Yeah, so um, so one time one of my friends uh said to me, You watch pro wrestling? And I said, Yeah, but but you like to read books and you're an informed man and you're an interpreter. How can you watch pro wrestling? I'm like, Well, it's because I'm an interpreter that I watch pro wrestling.

SPEAKER_02: 50:01

Let me explain to you why. Oh, that's so great. I actually love that. Okay, there you go, everyone. Don't say that we don't give great tips on how to disconnect from interpreting whenever you need to unplug.

SPEAKER_03: 50:14

Go go find the find the dumbest thing you like. Uh this is mine. Find yours. For some people, it's um stupid movies, comedies. Uh, it could be a sitcom, but you you need to have uh something to really um and and something that is not self-destructing, let's say uh going drinking all night.

SPEAKER_02: 50:35

Yeah. Yeah, you need a different kind of outlet, not something that's gonna add to the fire. That's so true. Oh my gosh, Alan. I know that we can always talk about all kinds of different experiences uh when it comes to interpreting as interpreters. Uh, but I do want to uh ask you a couple of questions before we get to the close uh of today's episode. And one of those is what you've learned throughout the years. For example, if you could give yourself a piece of advice as you know, young Alan going into the interpreting profession or when you first started, what would be that piece of advice now that you would give yourself that could potentially even help someone that's just breaking into the field that would like to enter this profession with the experience that you've gained now through the years?

SPEAKER_03: 51:29

Um work hard, listen to yourself, record yourself. We don't we never like the sound of our own voice, but it is the way it is. Uh you have to record yourself and you have to listen to yourself. Um this and when I I did a master's at Glendon, and that's one of the things we do from the very beginning, and I had never really done that before. So the fact that I had to record myself and listen to myself, um I've picked up so many little things, and I was making funny noises, and I was um, I don't know, I was, and or I was uh making either funny noises, or sometimes I was uh ending my sentences in a certain way, or I was using certain words all the time, and uh I was like, oh, why am I doing this? So recording yourself is one thing. Um, I think that very few interpreters over the years listen to themselves because it becomes something like really automatic. But I think that um I've been doing this for years now, and I still record myself, and I don't listen to uh 30 minutes of myself, but sometimes I will just listen to five minutes. I will just I I turn as I uh turn on uh the microphone on Zoom, I'll um I'll turn on the software and then I'll just record myself and then I'll just stop it, and then later at the end of the day or the next day, I'll just listen to myself for a few minutes. I just want to see if oh, did I how did it sound? How do I sound? Am I fun to listen to? Um, that's one thing. Uh, you gotta be fun to listen to because people who don't understand the language are listening to you for a reason. And if you um if you uh babble or if you uh don't have complete sentences, or if what you're saying, you're like, well, I didn't understand what he was saying and over there, and what he said didn't make sense. So what if I don't make sense? Well, it's not my fault, he didn't make sense because I've heard that before. Well, no, makes sense because whoever's listening to you will think you don't make sense, they won't think that person at the front doesn't make sense. So uh it's your responsibility to make sure that something is understood by the client. It's not an excuse to say that you didn't understand what was saying at the front. Do something about it. So that would be one.

SPEAKER_02: 54:14

That takes practice, yeah. That takes practice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 54:16

It does, it does. Uh, and I I fell into that trap when I first started. I was like, well, uh, who cares? I mean, I didn't have that attitude exactly, but I'm just being doing a caricature here. But I was like, well, uh, you know, um, he didn't he didn't make sense. How can I make sense? You gotta make sense if you know your topic, even if the speaker is not that good, you'll make sense. I've I've heard, I've listened, uh, listen to older interpreters, listen to experienced interpreters. Um don't we're doing things on Zoom now. Before in the booth, when we were in the booth all the time, we had no other choice but to listen to them. But um now on Zoom, uh, it's not it's not fun to uh okay, you know what, I'm gonna uh switch the language channel and I'm going to uh listen to someone someone else. But every once in a while you have to do it. And one time I was with this interpreter, and I was like, he's like 25, 30 years experience, and um, and I really like him. I meet him every once in a while, and I heard him and I was like, wow. And then I I spoke to him after the conference, and I was like, You you did great, you know. And he's like, I don't understand anything, and was about cryptocurrencies and find all those things, and he didn't know anything about it. I was like, it didn't sound like it, it didn't sound like you didn't understand. I mean, I could follow. So that's that would be uh like so. I I gave two. I gave two pieces of advice.

SPEAKER_01: 55:55

That's great.

SPEAKER_03: 55:55

Um, the first one, listen to yourself, second, listen to experienced interpreters, and the third one we said in the beginning, which is uh get experience, travel, and do other things. So now you have three.

SPEAKER_02: 56:07

Get some depth, exactly like that, get some depth. Alan, I want to bring it back to in the beginning, you mentioned that the light sort of switched for you the moment that that interpreter's mic turned on with regards to interpreting. Years later, you you've created an a podcast show that's called Found in Interpretation.

SPEAKER_03: 56:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 56:33

Speak to our listeners about uh that podcast and what inspired you.

SPEAKER_03: 56:38

Um well, the podcast, my uh great friend Brian Bickford and I started this podcast. And uh Brian and I have been uh, you know, Brian uh owns an agency which is called UN Language Services, and I've known Brian for years, and and we are really good friends. And we we have um, I would say uh in some ways a similar uh background because he also has three languages French, English, and Spanish. And uh he has uh Latin American origins, uh grew up in Canada. Um and we have all we have several several things in common. And what last year during the summer, uh we were hanging out in Montreal and uh a cocktail bar, and that's as far as I remember it, about around like 1:30 a.m. We were talking, and oh yeah, we can do things together and work, and I don't know, it was just you know, just random ideas. And then I remember saying, let's do a podcast, and I just said it like that without even really thinking about it. And then Brian's like, Yeah, great idea. And then suddenly he was shining, and he would he, and then the next day I completely forgot about it. And Brian says, When are we starting the podcast? And I was like, Right, the podcast, okay, yeah, sure. Um, but you know, we're being busy with work and the contracts and you know, invoicing and all of that. And he, and then everyone's while when are we doing the podcast? When are we doing the podcast? I was like, okay, uh, and then I had like, if you really want to do anything in life, you gotta put a date. If you don't put a date to any on anything, you're never gonna do anything, right? So you gotta put a date.

SPEAKER_01: 58:30

Yeah, that's golden.

SPEAKER_03: 58:32

So um, I think it was something like August last year or September. And uh I said, okay, uh, I wasn't ready. I was like, okay, um, my setup was not great, I didn't have the microphone or anything, and I was like, Oh, okay, well, let's do it. And um, I buy uh bought a bunch of equipment and uh you know found some software, and what are we gonna talk about? I don't know. Um we were just gonna talk about interpretation, okay. So um Brian took care of a but uh much more than I did about doing a bit of research on the topic, and we did um three episodes, but then it started to pick up when um there was a fourth episode coming, and uh I'm on the board of directors of uh the um the association of uh translator interpreters and terminologists in Quebec, OTIAC. And I uh in one of the meetings of the board, um uh I heard that Laval University in Quebec City was starting a micro program in conference interpretation.

SPEAKER_02: 59:46

Let's say micro program.

SPEAKER_03: 59:48

A microprogram is basically uh if you have a bachelor's degree and uh you can do like it's some sort of certificate.

SPEAKER_01: 59:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 59:56

So it but you need to have a bachelor's degree in order to have access to it. So it's not a master's, it's just let's say under a master's, it's just uh basically four courses over two semesters. It's really part-time and uh it's uh financed by uh the translation bureau in Canada. And um the uh my program director, the one in the very beginning of the story who said you should be an interpreter, he's the one who is uh taking care of it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:24

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:25

So I've known him for a number of years now, right? Over 20 years. So I called him and I said, Louis, uh, congratulations, I'm on the board of OCA. And I heard that uh they were they were telling in the meeting that uh you uh you're gonna launch a program finally been for years now. I know that you've been uh thinking about this. And he says, Yeah, but there's actually a press conference on Friday uh at Laval University to introduce the program, and the minister uh uh the minister will be there, and the head of the uh translation bureau will be there, the CEO of the translation bureau will be there. So, do you want to come? I was like, Wow, okay, sure. So um I said, Well, why don't you come to the podcast to after the press conference to uh talk about the program? And he's like, Absolutely, yeah, I'll be delighted. So that's episode number four, if I'm not three or four. I think it's episode number four, where we had a guest on the podcast, and suddenly when we had a guest, it became oh, you know what? It's not only Brian and I just talking, it's it's basically um we're bringing we're so we've decided most of our episodes following uh that uh episode, we've decided to bring some guests, and when by bringing some guests, we got out just as I was saying earlier, we uh left our silo. Suddenly we started meeting other people, we've met you, and uh we've met uh we've seen that interpretation is much wider than what we are going through. And although we have experience, Brian, although he has an agency and sees even more, he has a even broader view than I than I have because I'm taking gigs here and there. Um, we've seen that it's even larger than we imagined. And um, for instance, um one of our guests uh about uh three weeks ago, sorry, episode uh 31, he's uh he's an interpreter in a refugee camp in Kenya. He uh fled Darfur because of the genocide, and uh he works for the UNHCR. And he works as an interpreter for$60 a month.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:42

$60 a month. Why? Because since he's a refugee, he's not from Kenya, he doesn't have the although he's a professionally qualified, he does not have uh, he's not a citizen of Kenya. He lives in a refugee camp, he has a special status, and because of that, he can work, he has to work full-time, five days a week, uh, eight to five, and uh he got 60 bucks a month and three kilos of food. I was stunned. Um and I've we've met him, we found him on LinkedIn, he came to the podcast, you can watch it, and uh for me it was uh shocking. So to me, that's what the podcast allowed. It allowed me to see that interpretation is I thought that the world was big through interpretation, and now the world is even bigger through the podcast about interpretation. So Brian and I were having a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:34

Yep, I can relate. Yeah, I can totally relate. So true. Well, Alan, as we get to the close of today's episode, there's one last question that I have for you, which is how can our listeners find out more about you and the work that you do?

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:53

Well, um uh I can be found easily on LinkedIn, but uh if you want to find the podcast, uh go to YouTube or Spotify and type found in interpretation. And uh you'll find us pretty easily. And don't forget, like, share, and subscribe and comment.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:11

That's right, especially comment. Engagement is so huge. So absolutely. I'll make sure to uh include the links in the episode notes for today's episode. Go ahead and check out Alan's podcast, Found an Interpretation. It's actually, you know, well, depending on the topic, right, and who you bring in. But the two hosts, Brian and Alan, are just uh amazing energy, super fun. So go and check it out.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:37

Yeah, well, um, well, thank you for thank you very much for inviting me. Uh it was uh absolutely great. And um, yeah, I I like the vibe.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:46

Thank you, Alan.