Great leaders - Are they born or coached?

In this episode, we welcome Rachel Gilmore, an executive coach of 13 years, with clients including the National History Museum and the Editor in Chief of Elle Magazine.

Here at Bright, Rachel is helping us develop our leadership capability and to create a feedback culture that is impactful and useful and helps us focus on continuous development rather than a tick box performance appraisal system.

Endlessly curious about how people learn and express themselves, Rachel is also a Clean Language Practitioner, a progressive and powerfully subtle communication and coaching methodology that uses the client’s own words and metaphors to phrase questions that are not leading or full of jargon.

So how can coaching help us become improved leaders? As part of our International Women’s Day mini-series, we’ve invited Rachel onto the podcast to discover how she supports industry leaders in their quest to become better communicators and leaders. We also delve into the topics of creating an authentic voice in the workplace and proactive ways to cope with the dreaded Imposter Syndrome!

Credits:

Interviewer Emma Pryke https://thescoopdigital.co.uk

Guest speaker: Rachel Gilmore https://www.rachelgilmore.com/

Podcast produced by Let’s Talk Video Production: https://letstalkvideoproduction.com

Transcript

Mon, 3/8 · 11:22 AM

35:32
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
peopleorganisationimposter syndromeclientfeedbackbitmeetingrachelcreatingpersonculturedramafeelcoachingauthentic voiceworkthinkingsettinginternational women's dayteam

SPEAKERS
Speaker 2 (75%), 
Speaker 1 (25%) 

1

Speaker 1

0:05

Hello and a very warm welcome to the big bright podcast. My name is Emma and today we are very excited to welcome Rachel Gilmore and executive coach of 13 years with clients including the National History Museum and the editor in chief of Elle Magazine, Kara bright Rachel is helping us develop our leadership capability and to create a feedback culture that is both impactful and useful and helps us focus on continuous development rather than a tick box performance appraisal system, endlessly curious about how people learn and express themselves. Rachel is also a Clean Language practitioner for progressive and subtle communication and coaching method that uses a client's own words and metaphors to phrase questions that are neither leading or full of jargon. So how can coaching help us become improved leaders. As part of our International Women's Day mini series, we've invited Rachel onto the podcast to discover how she supports industry leaders in their quest to become better communicators and managers. We also delve into the topics of creating an authentic voice in the workplace and proactive ways to cope with that dreaded imposter syndrome. Welcome, Rachel. Hello,

2

Speaker 2

1:07

thanks for having me. Thanks for asking me to do this. It's nice to be here.

1

Speaker 1

1:11

It's an absolute pleasure. Obviously, you have been working with bright for a little while. So you're already familiar with the team? Yeah. So we'll go only right to, you know, have you on first part of our International Women's Day series. So just kick off something you focus on in your coaching organisations is creating a healthy team culture. So can you tell our listeners a little bit about how a company can ensure they're taking the right steps to cultivating this?

2

Speaker 2

1:37

Okay, yeah, I love working with companies on culture, it's my kind of thing. And I really enjoy and specialise working with and enabling kind of creative tech cultures. And where I always tend to start, which might feel a bit counterintuitive, is at the individual level. So what I'll often do is come into an organisation and kind of speak to the people that are there to kind of find out what's going on what's working well, what's not working so well, and what they'd like to be different. And then bring that pool of people together and start to really kind of encourage a new and a different and a more effective communication style. So I'm trying to get people to learn to kind of really listen to each other and ask these non non leading or clean questions and these clean questions that you referenced a moment ago, which is about using the other person's words, and not being leading or judgmental. These questions really help create curiosity. And of course, you can get curious about one another, then we will, that's when we start to learn, we start to increase our feelings of relatedness. We see each other as human beings and increases our understanding of one another, then we start to teach people how to notice when they are in a really positive mind state for work. Or if they're in a negative mindset, are they coming from their neocortex their learning brain, and if they're not how to get into it, because that's where we problem solve, and we can collaborate. And we get creative in that part of the brain. So helping people know when they're in that brain state and how to get into it help people think about drama. And notice when they're in drama, recognise when others are in drama. So so what I'm doing here is coming in at the individual level, and giving them some tools around communicating and relating to one another. So when you say drama,

1

Speaker 1

3:26

can you explain a bit more about being in drama because I haven't heard that term before. As human beings, we

2

Speaker 2

3:31

kind of a lot of us are in drama, a lot of the time we can be in, in drama, in our own heads about something, you know, what should I have for dinner tonight? We had a conversation before we started, didn't we about what time we go to bed and I was thinking, oh god, I wish Oh, I wish I could go to bed a bit earlier in the mornings. That's a tiny, teeny example of of drama, where I'm kind of berating myself for not going to bed a bit earlier. So when we're in drama, we tended to come from one of three positions when we're speaking like we're a victim. We're speaking like we're a persecutor, or we're speaking like we're a rescuer. And you can look this up, it's coppermines Drama triangle. And of course, this plays out in organisations all the time. And a dramatic example of drama would be around or an argument. I've just given you a small little example of drama. And really, we don't want to be in drama, because drama is emotionally draining. It's tiring, and it perpetuates. So if we can teach people to notice when they're in drama and drama with their colleagues in drama with a project in drama with a client, if we can get them to notice when they're in drama, and give them the tools to get themselves and other people out of drama. So then we're starting to give this system or this culture, some really useful tools and techniques for communicating and relating to one another. When we've got that then we can get the culture to start to look at Well, when I'm working at my best I'm like what, when this team is at its best, it It's like, what, and when this organisation is operating at its best, it is like what, and when it's like that, then what happens. And if we get this, the whole team, or the whole organisation to engage in a conversation like that, this is when they start to really have a shared understanding of what makes them an organisation, what makes them a culture, what their purpose is, as an organisation, and what they need to be doing to make all of that happen, and what are the skills and the behaviours that they need to be demonstrated. And so that's a kind of whistlestop tour to how I might support an organisation develop the skills and the way of being in order to focus on the culture at once. And to do that culture change that culture piece of thinking about what kind of culture does this organisation need in order to do well,

1

Speaker 1

5:52

and I suppose everybody needs to be on the same page with that. So it's learning as a collective, the culture you're, you're leading towards, and understanding, you know, everybody understanding that and everybody working towards the same goal, which I suppose makes sense if you're starting from the individual, and then you then go out into a wider sphere.

2

Speaker 2

6:11

Yeah, I mean, often, the top team might be kind of responsible for setting some of that up and setting a bit of a direction and talking about what they want the company purpose or vision to be. And then I've seen organisations where they'll write like value statements and saying, Oh, yes, we are optimistic here. And we are honest, and we are open minded and creative. Now, of course, unless you do that work with everyone, and you have that kind of individual, that grassroots building up to the top, if you don't do that, then of course, everybody will have a different understanding of what creative means. Because when you think about creative, when I think about creative, we both think of different things. But in an organisation, you want there to be a shared understanding of what creative means at this company. And so you have to have that kind of dialogue. And to have that dialogue, you've got to have the skills to have it. So it's sort of a bit of skill development, then it's about supporting the organisation to have the dialogue that it needs to have, so that it can be focused on the culture that it wants.

1

Speaker 1

7:14

That leads us quite nicely on to our next question about ensuring how a team can feel connected and empowered. And that's something that we are really keen to promote a bright, and especially working remotely for the foreseeable future. And we found actually, that it's not easy, it's not an easy task. And it takes quite a bit of creative thinking to adapt and inspire to different situations, especially when everybody is a part. So in terms of making sure that everybody does feel connected remotely and empowered in their roles and able to communicate. Do you have any tips? Or is there any examples you could share with us of a company? Or companies who feel do it really well?

2

Speaker 2

7:51

Yeah. So I think, again, it's starting at that individual level and asking people, how do they feel connected? How do they feel empowered, I mean, I've just thinking about a recent example of a client I was working with, and the CEO had picked up the phone to one of the more junior members of the team to kind of get a heads up, find out how a task was going. And I think he thought that that was really nice and personable of him to be like picking up the phone and chatting. And that would have worked for me because I'm an extrovert, but I know that this team member is an introvert. So that sends her into a spin being called up by the CEO and being put on the spot. And actually, when I talked to her, she was like, actually, all I need is a text five or 10 minutes ahead to just say, Hey, can you do a call in 10 minutes about x now that gives you enough time to settle yourself, mentally prepare, and then be ready and be focused, when this kind of CEO calls up, you need to just ask people what they want, and then kind of check in regularly. And because we're all different, and we all need slightly different communication style. So then the organisation really depending on its size, and really needs to kind of provide as many different kinds of formats and forums for communication as they can. And what's important is they're really clear about each different type of communication forum or format, and what the purpose of each is and whether people are invited to attend whether it's compulsory or not. So the sorts of things that probably should be happening on a daily basis is there should be like a good morning kind of kickoff and close of the day kind of goodbye or they're really important, particularly if anybody is working from home without a family around them in a shared house or or that they they traditionally have used work for socialising and that's really important for them and then you need a mix during the day of like coffee break and then prompt you or spontaneous inviting someone for a cup of tea and just giving people those opportunities to just check in during the day where they might need to just speak to somebody Yeah, I

1

Speaker 1

10:01

totally agree. I feel like the the check in and the clothes is really important because obviously when you come to an office or working in office, see you have the Good morning. And then you have this the the chat, the small talk. And I think sometimes when you work remotely, you just go straight into work, and you don't have you know, that socialisation with your colleagues that you would normally have, especially for new starters, I think that must be really hard. Yeah,

2

Speaker 2

10:25

yeah, I don't think I'm not everybody will need it. Not everybody will need that. Some people want to just get straight on with their work. But some people to know that between nine and 930, there's an open forum where they can come in, say, Hello, anybody could be there, they can just come in and say hello, you know, it might be a time where they just can say out loud what their priorities for the day are. It could be them reflecting on a programme they watched last night, but just providing that space and place where people can check in like you would do like you said, when you walk into work in the morning, it's a bit weird if you walk into work in the morning, and don't say hello to coffee, sit

11:01

down at your desk and just crack on. Because our net,

2

Speaker 2

11:05

yeah, probably like what's wrong with them. So you know, those kinds of small informal things need to be happening on a daily basis. And then weekly needs to get a bit more formal. So weekly, you should be having a one to one with the line manager should be having a team meeting. And those team meetings are to come together to collectively problem solver be creative. And then there probably should be some kind of social or drinks that it's voluntary for people to come along to if they need it. And then it's really interesting, I think sometimes that then people don't look at projects differently or client needs. So So around each project, there should be a kickoff, a major a review, and then evaluation, what have we learned? What are we going to do differently next time. And then for client meetings, especially if you're taking someone along with you to client meetings to help them develop? There should be a setup before that meeting, thinking about how you want the meeting to go. And there should be a meeting booked in pretty soon after, not straight after say, How did that go? What did you learn? What are you going to do differently next time some other companies that I've worked with that I've been impressed with have introduced like a leadership forum. And sometimes it's like a book group, they read a book and all come together, or it's facilitated like an action learning set, where they kind of share the challenges they're facing, and coach one another around their current leadership challenges. So I think there's lots of different forums and formats. And I think there's one other thing that companies are being really savvy and doing, they are creating forums that are about work or professional, but not about a task and not about project. They're not about talking shop at the moment, what they're doing is they're creating seminars, I'm kind of running a series of sessions for a client, and we're calling them meaningful connections. Because what people are telling me that they're really missing is that bumping into someone in the corridor, you know, the watercooler moment, but interacting with people who might not be there, one of their peers and might not be in their team, but somebody else across the organisation who they might say hi to in a corridor. And so I've been running these sessions called meaningful connections where people come together around work related themes that are universal that apply to everyone. So we've already mentioned imposter syndrome. So might run a session on imposter syndrome or setting boundaries being a working parent, how to create healthy work habits. And they're they're universal themes. And so anybody in the organisation can come along to one of these sessions. And the sessions are designed that people get to work in pairs, and in trios quite frequently. So they're getting these little interactions with people, these kind of little intimate moments where they can just talk to colleagues about what's going on for them.

1

Speaker 1

13:56

It's interesting how you talk about they can go off in pairs, because I think sometimes when you're in a big zoom meeting, it's quite easy for people to get lost. Like you said, some people are more introverted, some people are happier just to pipe up. And I think when I've been in a zoom meeting, when I've been in a breakout room, the conversations that I've had with the other people have been way more candid and way more informal and more honest, because we're happier to share in smaller groups, and to have more time to have that connection in that conversation. Whereas a defining zoom meetings, and it's been something we've talked about a bit of bright is that sometimes you really have to sort of say, right, x person, what do you think about this because otherwise people don't feel comfortable just sharing without being asked. So again, it's it feels like the main theme of everything here is all about the communication and understanding how people communicate and how people want to communicate. And that is very different from person to person.

2

Speaker 2

14:51

There's two things here. So there's one around how do you design a session that's really engaging or a meeting really engaging? And how do you create it in such a way that you allow those meaningful connections, which is about structuring it in different ways and creating talking topics or talking points or exercises, people to go away in small groups have that more intimate experience, and then come back and share what they've learned. And what you're also referencing here is, there's a whole new skill set required to facilitating engaging meetings online, I was working online anyway. But in the first lockdown myself and a peer group we got together, we met every Friday during lockdown. And we practice and refined our facilitation techniques over zoom. So how to use the camera, how to look into the camera and use the camera, when you're giving an instruction, how to sit back and mean back to show with your body language that was time for other people to contribute. I'd like you said, being much more ready to use people's names. And to draw people in and say I'm just going to speak to this person who asked this person now and then I'm going to come to so and so and find out what you're thinking. So a lot more signposting needs to happen in online meetings to engage people and give people time to think and know how to contribute in a meeting like that. Do you think it's important for a meeting to have a host almost because I feel like it is quite important to have somebody that is facilitating and that is drawing people in? Because if there's no firm leader of the meeting, it can feel like it just falls apart a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I've always felt that I facilitate lots of meetings and go in to organisations and facilitate meetings. But I think even more so on nine. Now, because of this kind of extra skill set, we're managing a whole nother level of data and content and all the tech that you're having to manage as well at the same time. So it's very hard for you to be an effective participant and host slash facilitator of a meeting, you can't really do both one or the other, the meeting will suffer or you won't be able to contribute in the way that you'd like to, I would always advise people to have a facilitator or host, especially if you want a really engaging meeting online, I think it's become even more important,

1

Speaker 1

17:09

I agree. So an important part of being confident in our ability seems to be around creating an authentic voice within the workplace. Again, this kind of leads on from being remote and being confident in your voice, do you have advice and do work with clients on creating an authentic voice

2

Speaker 2

17:27

authenticity is when what we say? Well, this is my kind of definition of authenticity, is when what we say kind of comes from the head, the heart and the gut. So we're actually confident and we believe in what we're saying, we believe in what we're saying we believe in ourselves. And we believe in what the kind of striving for and the purpose of what we're communicating. And it kind of needs to resonate on all those levels. For it to then be or sound like for it to be an authentic voice. You can't fake an authentic voice, you can't act it. So you have to really believe in your value. And so I work with clients, helping them to remember really, and explore where they've come from, to define and value their unique set of experiences, and to know how their voice can really add value in their workplace. Because we know that with diversity of thinking, we get more creativity, we get better decision making on behalf of the customer on behalf of the client, the community that you're serving. So it's really about helping the person to value and understand themselves and what they're saying and the place that they have a new organisation. And there's a really nice quick exercise here that people can do at home if they want to, which is just, you know, sit down one evening, you can journal this, but just give yourself a time limit, maybe 10 minutes and just get your journal and write a series of sentences. Starting with I am remarkable, because it feels a bit weird at first. But if you keep writing and keep doing it, put some nice music on in the background, you will start writing things about yourself. And you'll start to remember all these things that you've overcome and you've achieved. And that really, it's an empowering exercise. And it reminds you of your value. And actually, it reminds me that you have a look at the spring forward festival coming up in March. It's celebrating digital women online and they are running an I am remarkable event. And it's free. So you can look at the website there and check it out. And I'm running a couple of events for that festival too. So I'm sure you'll put some links to that somewhere and people can go and have a look.

1

Speaker 1

19:33

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's it's such a simple statement, but I'm sure people struggle with it because the British not so great all the time. Or they you know, we don't shout about our, you know, wins. And I think we can be quite modest really. And I think it's maybe a more of an American thing to kind of come out and say that I'm really great at this and this is what I bring to the table and I think it's really important to recognise that and be confident in that, and it's a challenge. But I definitely feel that it's, you know, just by starting very small like this, just writing it down and actually just formulating it in your mind, it really does help you to believe what you bring to the table. And I think that's even more important again, on my remote, and we can sort of fade into the background a little bit and not really realise what we're bringing to the organisation. Whereas we should, you know, be proud to stand up and take charge in the meeting, or, or maybe offer to do more things, because we know that that's a strength of ours. So I love that I'm definitely going to check these events out, and we'll link to them.

2

Speaker 2

20:39

Yeah, give it give the I Am, remarkably, I keep them quietly journal, you can be very British, quietly, to yourself, but it is an empowering exercise to do and then you realise your value through it

1

Speaker 1

20:54

and talking about voice and having your voice heard a topic that's come up quite a few times in our podcast, especially in the International Women's Day series that we've been running is how women can have their voice heard in a male dominated workplace or boardroom and if one of your clients had this as a concern, and wanted to work on this with you, what would you advise them to do,

2

Speaker 2

21:15

I would do more work, I would do that work. And I do more work on giving them helping them to create a sense of value of themselves and knowing what they're good at. And I do it with exercise quite often with clients to help them think about when they're at their best, and what might be some of the kind of critical factors that they need to have in place around them to be at their best. So giving them a really clear sense of what kind of place what kind of people what kind of environment and company culture enables them to be at their best, then I always advise people, and this is easier when someone's joining a company, you really, really, really need to do your homework about the organisation that you are entering into. Or if you are, you know, being promoted up to a boardroom, for example, you really, really need need to find out about the culture of that workplace or that team or that boardroom before you make the move. And I would really, I would really encourage people to put some time and energy into that. I mean, I know from experience, I know, I started one job. And I was on the second day I remember ringing up my dad crying, I knew I'd made a big mistake of it. It wasn't the right place. For me, the telltale signs were probably there. And I remember also being offered another job. And there were some alarm bells. And so I said to them, can I come and spend a day with the team, I'd really like to come and meet everyone and spend a day with the team. And the minute I crossed the threshold into that building, I knew that it wasn't right for me and I turned the job down. So find out as much as you can. Obviously you can't go into buildings at the moment,

1

Speaker 1

22:59

I was going to say what how can people find out about culture without spending a day there.

2

Speaker 2

23:04

So what you need to do is you need to ask to meet your soon to be peers. And a good line of inquiry with them is asked to meet them and have one to one to them and ask them you know, why do you do this job? You know, what is it about it that you love? And you like, you know, why do you do what you do. And what you're trying to do is you're trying to find out is there alignment between you know, their purpose, why they get up in the morning and do this job, and with your purpose and what you strive for in life, you know, you're not looking for like minded or similar people, but what you're looking for is alignment in purpose, people who are driven and inspired to make the same kind of difference to the world that you want to make. So that's one one thing that you can do to find out, you know, is this group of people aligned enough to me, and of course, you'll either realise that they're not, or you'll realise that they are and that will be a really good trust building relationship building exercise to do with an even before you start, and I suppose you could do that by literally just inviting them for a coffee. Yeah.

1

Speaker 1

24:10

Yeah. And because I think you can tell very quickly, you can't be who you're aligned with and the potential relationship you could have with that person just from having eye contact and a quick conversation. Yes. And I think actually, if I was working in an organisation, and someone approached me, I think that's actually really forward thinking and I'd be really open and happy to do that

2

Speaker 2

24:29

people are really open and happy to do because they want to get along with you as well. You know, they're curious about you, they want it to work, you know, it's not the work that we do is it that we find difficult usually the people that we work with, so people want to get along with you to know that they will probably admire that you've contacted them. And if you get enough alarm bells and you're starting to think that this environment might not be right for you, then you kind of need to be prepared to walk away. I think that can be really difficult call but sometimes it's just not worth personal sacrifice, it's very hard being a change agent, it's very hard being the person trying to change things from within. It's emotionally very draining. So you've got to kind of know what you're going into and be up for it. And if you're unsure, then maybe it's just not quite worth that personal sacrifice, maybe that culture of that place isn't quite work for you, and you'd be better placed elsewhere. Absolutely, I

1

Speaker 1

25:23

think it's a really brave decision to make as well to make that call. But it's so important, I think, I'm always thinking, we spend so much time at work, there's no point being sad and, and hating it and you know, feeling like you don't belong somewhere, it's just such a miserable feeling to carry with you. So definitely on board with, you know, liking the people that you work with, and then everything becomes a lot easier or being able to get along with them at least. So something I've spoken to quite a few friends and colleagues about who have coaching or considering coaching is the topic of imposter syndrome. And it seems to be something that does affect a lot of people. And I'm interested to find out a little bit about how you work with clients to tackle the effects of this

2

Speaker 2

26:05

imposter syndrome seems to be a phrase that people are using a lot at the moment. And imposter syndrome is an internal response. So this is when you experience a dip in confidence, or you worry that you're not as good as you should be, you know, you're going to get found out that others won't believe in you or you think that they don't believe in you or that they don't think that you're competent. And actually, I was working with a client the other day, who described this feeling of imposter syndrome, I found out where it come from. And it had come from a 360 process where she'd asked she'd been brave, she'd asked people around her give her some feedback. And they didn't put it into the system. And then she had an hour with someone from the HR team who kind of gave her all this feedback. And I would just say there are big alarm bells for me around 360 feedback systems, I think they can create more more damage than benefit, especially if you only have an hour feedback session with someone from the HR team. Of course, the feedback in those 360 feedback processes is only as good as the feedback that's been inputted and that person could have been feeling bit resentful that day could have been sat in the computer late and I Oh God, I've been asked to fill in one of these bloody 360 feedback forms. And so they give feedback that's not skillfully delivered. And then the person at the receiving end is then deposited with these whole kind of statements about them in black and white. And so I would just say to people just be very, very wary of 360 feedback, it's much better for you to go out there and collect the feedback yourself than to use these kinds of processes or systems for this client. That was the trigger that was the trigger for her seeing a statement written about her in black and white without being able to go back or check it or really understand where it came from. So this is what I do with clients, I find out what has triggered this imposter syndrome, you know, is it a particular person? Is it a particular place situation? In this case, it was a 360 process and find out what happens for that person when imposter syndrome sets in, you know, do they get clammy hands? Do they get voices in their head and nervousness in their chest? Are they like a rabbit in headlights, then if we can kind of identify what happens to them and their system, then we can start to identify the early signals that about all wave of imposter syndrome might be coming, then we develop some techniques to counteract or head off those negative thoughts and feelings. So it'll be different for everyone. So when one client they freeze, they go into, like rabbits in the headlights, then we talk about well, what are the physiological symptoms that are associated with that? How do they know that the rabbit is coming? And then we might say, Well, what would they like to be like? Well, I much prefer to be more like a swan on a calm still waters gliding along with a broad view, you know, across the lake, for example, metaphors are so powerful metaphors are so rich for people. And we use metaphor all the time. And I use metaphor, it's part of the Clean Language approach that I use. And so if people can can know what it's like when they've got imposter syndrome, then they know where it's coming from. If they can, then I start to identify the early signals, and then develop a more powerful metaphor or a mantra or if they embody stuff they might learn to kind of really like physically shake it out of their system, we can develop these tools and techniques for them to spot it's coming and do something about it before it takes over.

1

Speaker 1

29:47

I feel like that could be really useful. If you're about to go into something maybe facing some of these people that you feel trigger your imposter syndrome. Like a meeting you can kind of prep yourself to go in Because I really feel for your client with the 360 feedback. So yeah, I've seen it, I've been in an organisation with senior management have that, and they really suffered from it. And I think I feel like it was a opportunity for some of their team to really vent, they took that opportunity, and it probably wasn't fed back in the most sensitive way. And it really damaged people's confidence. And you know, no feedback should be damaging, you always remember that going forward, don't you, you forget the positives. And you always remember the negatives. And it's really interesting to hear about where those triggers come from. And I'm sure they're very different for lots of different people throughout their career, as well,

2

Speaker 2

30:38

I offer I offer alternatives to the 360 process. So one option is to teach the client and work with the client to help them develop and be skilled at giving and receiving feedback. So they can actually go out into the organisation and collate it for themselves, it's far better to have these conversations one on one, and they can say I'm doing a 360 process, but I'm gonna, you know, I'd like to do it verbally with you, or I'd like to do it through a series of one to ones. That's the ideal. The second option is that somebody like me comes in and has many interviews with those people. And so I'm collating really useful, evidence based feedback for that person that's balanced, what's working well, what's not working? Well, what can this person be doing differently, and then I feed it back. And then I'm looking for themes. I'm not feeding back every bit of feedback, I'm looking for the themes across that pool of people. And I'm then delivering that feedback in a very evidence based way so that the person on the receiving end can really understand it lands, they can understand it. And importantly, they know what they can do differently. They've got some tangible actions of how they can improve on things. Do you

1

Speaker 1

31:50

think that feedback should ever be anonymous? Or do you think that people should have to take ownership of the feedback they're giving about somebody else?

2

Speaker 2

31:59

Yeah, I don't think the feedback should be anonymous. I think it's a bit like it's a bit like trolling because less

1

Speaker 1

32:05

exactly, because I think, yeah, I've seen instances, someone's bought up some feedback. And then an example from like, four years ago. It's crazy to feedback like that. So I think you always sound a lot more measured, and taking the emotion

2

Speaker 2

32:18

out when feedback is rooted in evidence, something that you and I have both seen and heard. So yes, we both saw that email that went to that client, we were both in that meeting, and noticed when I raised my eyebrow, when a comment was made. So something that we have both seen and heard when it is feedback is rooted in evidence, something that we've both seen and heard, we're both coming from an agreed starting point. And the emotion does go because it's an objective thing that has happened. And then we can discuss the different inferences we've had. So when you saw me raise my eyebrow, you thought I was raising my eyebrow about a comment that somebody else made in the meeting, that might be the case, but something else could have happened, maybe my mobile phone went off in my pocket for the third time that morning. And I think I know who it was. And I was raising my eyebrows that even if we both seen or heard the same bit of evidence, we can both have multiple and different inferences about what that actually meant, and the impact that had on us. And so if we start from evidence, we can explore together those different influences and impacts of what happened.

1

Speaker 1

33:26

Absolutely. Oh, it's been so fascinating to talk to you about everything we've talked about today. And I think it's been really great to get some of your actual tangible things that people can do if they are facing any of, you know, these worries or imposter syndrome. So I'm sure a lot of people listening will be really interested to find out a bit more about your coaching services and the events that you're running. So what's the best way of getting in touch with you and finding out some more information,

2

Speaker 2

33:56

people can check out my website, it's easy, it's Rachel gilmore.com. And they can email me if they are interested in some coaching, I just would like to quickly put it out there that I'm actually doing a research project at the moment, I am interested in finding out about what leaders fears and challenges are at the moment and what they would like to be different about their organisation and about how they lead. And so I am conducting research, I'm offering 30 minute mini reflective coaching sessions where people can reflect on their leadership style, and how they'd like it to be. And that's going to inform a new company that I'm setting up is going to inform the branding, it's going to inform the products that we're offering so really want to make sure that we're offering products that are really going to meet the needs of leaders out there right now. And so if anybody would like to help out with like a mini reflective coaching session, then please get in touch let me know.

1

Speaker 1

34:58

Brilliant, okay, and we'll Definitely include those links and how people can get in contact with you in our supporting blog post. So thank you so much, Rachel, and we'll let you go. But it was Yeah, it was absolutely fascinating to have you on and thank you so much for all your input and sharing your knowledge with us.

35:15

It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

1

Speaker 1

35:19

Thanks for listening to the big broke podcast. Make sure to subscribe to never miss an episode and check out our website at built by bright.com

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