Dating Etiquette for 2024:💘 Is Chivalry Dead? Dating Insights With Brian Alves

Join dating aficionado, renowned podcaster, videographer Brian Alves, and host Kerry Brett as they share their journey through the maze of modern romance. With Brian's unmatched expertise in the world of love and a reach of 250,000 listeners weekly on the DV Show – Video Production Just Got Easier Podcast, this episode promises a whirlwind of wisdom and wittiness.

Episode Highlights
It's all about first impressions: Explore the profound impact of initial encounters and unearth top-notch tips for leaving an indelible first impression.
Communication: Effective communication strategies emphasize the importance of active listening and genuine engagement on those pivotal first dates.
Navigating conversational terrain: Brian shares his go-to conversation topics and how he maneuvers through potentially sensitive subjects, ensuring smooth sailing through any dialogue.
Body language decoded: From door-holding debates to the silent language of attraction, discover the significance of body language in forging connections without words.
The texting artistry: Brian's secrets behind becoming a master texter, infusing personality and humor into messages while fostering genuine connections.
The bill-paying conundrum: We share a timeless debate of splitting or covering the bill. Gain insights and etiquette pointers on this hotly contested topic.
Honoring boundaries: Recognize cues and signals, ensuring respect and engagement 
while sidestepping the pitfalls of distracted interactions.
Punctuality and planning precision: From differing perspectives on planning efforts to the significance of punctuality, Brian and Kerry provide invaluable advice on this contentious subject.
Post-date feedback: Ghosting or honest communication? Explore the dos and don'ts of 
follow-up interactions after a date, navigating the delicate post-date landscape.
Embracing awkwardness: Laugh off the awkward with Brian's anecdotes, showcasing graceful navigation through uncomfortable situations, turning them into opportunities.

Key Takeaways:
Patience pays off: Understanding someone might need time, perhaps three dates, to open up.
Embrace authenticity: 
Be flexible, vulnerable, and resilient; authenticity triumphs over missteps.
Be present and caring: Show genuine interest, put away distractions, and cultivate kindness; it's the cornerstone of a successful first date.

So grab your favorite seltzer and buckle up for Shot@Love's whirlwind ride, where Brian Alves brings unparalleled expertise, humor, and authenticity to unravel the enigma of modern dating!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Grab your favorite seltzer and sit back as we dive into the art of making a stellar first impression. Joining me is guest Brian Alves , who will break down modern dating etiquette. We'll cover the do's and don'ts during that important first date ever. Wonder about ideal topics for conversation? From decoding body language to the tricky terrain of technology we've got you covered. Is it a split the bill situation? We'll tackle the ins and outs of paying, planning a perfect date and being punctual. Stick around as we discuss personal boundaries, post date feedback, and turning awkward moments into opportunities. I'm Carrie Brett and shot at Love starts now. Ryan Elves is on a mission to find love and on a mission to rid the world of bad video. He's a host of the DV show, video Production Just got easier podcast with a weekly reach of 250,000 listeners where Brian equips every content producer, videographer, editor, business owner, marketer, and live streamer with the tools knowledge and confidence to make better videos today, he'll share what he's learned in his field research of online dating. So without further ado, welcome Brian Owls .

Speaker 2: 1:17

I'm very happy you said my name correctly. That is awesome. Yes, you didn't slaughter it, which is good. Thank you. That's good . Thank you . Well , that's a huge intro. That's a , that's a lot to swallow right there. <laugh>,

Speaker 1: 1:28

We've been waiting to do this for a while , and I'm really excited to have you on. We met on Clubhouse, and the first time we met, we had a controversial room about you opening doors for women and who should pay for dates. And the room went on for three hours and, and you have the most insane dating stories, <laugh>. So I, I want you to tell, tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and where you're at right now with online dating and ,

Speaker 2: 1:57

Uh ,

Speaker 1: 1:58

<laugh>.

Speaker 2: 1:59

I hate talking about myself first of all, but yes, we did have some really good conversations in Clubhouse and one of them, and I want you to be real on this, Kerry , in , in your own podcast, but we were talking about paying the bill . So if you want to jump like right into some of these topics Sure. I would be so happy to talk about that. Me on a first date . So I've been dating for a very, very long time, and I'm at the point now where I'm actually kind of satisfied in the position that I'm in. I'm really not looking for anything , uh, you know, critical or, you know, try settling down. I'm kind of happy where I'm at because as you know, you know, talking off of this podcast, we've had a lot of conversations about what's been going on in my life, what's been going on in your life, but it's been a lot of fun. So I date differently, maybe it's because of my age, maybe it's because of my background. Maybe it's because I've been burnt, I'm not quite sure. But we were discussing in Clubhouse, which it was just you and I in the room at one point we were discussing this and all of a sudden there was like 25, 30 people in that room, right. Going back and forth about the chival chivalry, I guess between men and women. And for some it's dead and for some it's not as dead. And, and I know for me, you know, in , in my dating past and , uh, you know, dating in general that some females, some women just, and , and I may be saying something that's going to be controversial or, you know, not make me look good. I know that for me, I, I'm not one to pay first. I'm not one to open up the door for you. I'm not one to sit you down or, or take your jacket and me and my dating experience, some females like that. But in this clubhouse room that we were in, and you're looking at me like, oh, my guy Brian , what are you do ? What are you ,

Speaker 1: 3:52

No , no , no . I , I remember the response and, and I don't think I was a , a crowd favorite. I think people ag tended to agree more with you, but some people that you know and value as women on Clubhouse did agree with me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Speaker 2: 4:08

<laugh>. Correct. It must have been, you know, we're in a different age bracket and, you know, dating people my age, they expect that, right? They expect you to open up the door for them. They expect for you to , um, you know, pay for that first meal. They expect you to be chivalrous. And when you come to date me, I'm totally opposite. Now. I go to restaurants that purposely have automatic sliding doors, <laugh>, because I'm not gonna hold the door open for you. I'm just not gonna do that because that puts me in a position as a male to be the submissive one right off the bat. And your eyes have just got totally different right now. <laugh> your face and your facial expressions <laugh>, and I'm looking like a big

Speaker 1: 4:57

Jerk to your audience. A poker face here , <laugh> . Well, you've had some bad experiences where you've gotten burned where people are like, and , and a lot of women have had said this in the room where they're like, well, I don't, if you pay for me, I don't wanna owe you. I don't want to feel like I owe you. Which I had never heard before. Yeah . I have heard on Instagram, lots of dating coaches where it's like, listen, guys, pay for the date. I've had, people have coached women call me crying because someone didn't pay for the date. I know people that wouldn't go out with someone again because they didn't pay for the date and made them feel bad. So these are all things that, what is the , the right etiquette here? And the door open one was a crazy one to me because I just feel like physically you're stronger. I would never like go to open the door first. I mean, I, I see what you're doing here by avoiding going to restaurants with, without automatic doors. But that just, this is where the masculine and the feminine energy. Now you're very, what I'm learning about you is that you are skeptic. You're , you're more skeptic in the beginning because you have had been catfish multiple times. You almost don't have a filter like I do in a sense, but you're not gonna change. And I think that when you're dating in your fifties, you've been through a lot of experiences. You've been married, divorced, you can tell me it's a little as much as you want about your past, but you've had very trying times and a lot of things happen. And so the first date is really difficult because how much do you let them know? Like, how much do you hold back? Do you throw everything in the kitchen sink at them? So aside from the doors in paying , and if you wanna touch upon both those things, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 7:03

Yeah. So the door in the p so like you said, you know, dating so much, you kind of have a shell that starts creating around you. And when you said catfish, all of a sudden I thought changes. And you know, as a guy who's dating, there are some certain expectations when you go out on that first date, yes, you should open the door, yes, you should pay for the first meal. Yes, you should do this, you should, you know, if it's in a chair, not in a booth, but if you're at a restaurant, if it's in a chair, you pull out the chair for the female. You know, there are certain expectations that , uh, are there when you date. And you know, for as long as I've been dating, that's not the case. There's certain amounts of , you know, there's certain types of people that don't necessarily want you to pull out the chair from them or open the door for them or pay for them. Uh, I've been on multiple dates where, you know, my date has said, you know, that is very offensive. And then that dominated the entire conversation during the , during the date . So what should you do? Should you automatically, just by default , have you know what everyone expects and then all of a sudden be punched in the gut by, you know, I don't want you to hold the door open for me, don't you <laugh> , you know, don't you , uh, pay for that meal for me? I don't want you doing that. So what do you do as a guy? What do you do? I mean, do you uphold yourself to those expectations or do you just kind of, you know, stand back and just let the date happen and not have these expectations put on us to begin with? I mean, what do you do?

Speaker 1: 8:48

Yeah, I think this is where it becomes really awkward. And I remember I went on my first date with my boyfriend. He wanted to take the commuter ile into Boston. I'd never taken the commuter ile , which is ridiculous since it's a half a mile down the street. But I liked it . I always took my car because if I was in town, chances were I had my cameras. I can't really travel with my cameras on the , on a commuter rail, whatever. I just was used to driving into Boston. So for me, I didn't know how to buy a ticket board. The train that stressed me out in the process of getting to the train on time, I left my license and my credit card on my table. And I had to say to him, not only do I not have a ticket, but you're gonna have to pay for this whole night. And I felt bad, but that's how it happened. He laughed. He was like, I knew you didn't know how to buy a ticket but me a ticket. Didn't care. <laugh> . But like, you do have to kind of have these conversations if you're traveling into the city or meeting separately. It is a weird thing. So this

Speaker 2: 9:58

Was your first date, so he had to pay for everything on your, on your first date? Pretty much, yeah. But it wasn't a thing.

Speaker 1: 10:04

It wasn't a thing. No , it wasn't a thing. I think he, he would've just paid anyways. Like he's really old school though. Like, he will open the door, he will open the door to a restaurant for me. He will pull the chair out, he makes sure he , he won't pick up his fork until both of us that he's really like old school like that. And I, I like that he's really caring and , um, considerate. I care a lot too. So I think what it's coming down to is that you're not, when you have these awkward moments, it's just really not your person. 'cause it really shouldn't be so challenging that like, you're having like issues over the door or, or, or paying. You're successful. You, you can afford to pay. Like, I don't think, you don't wanna not pay, but I think when it's a situation where someone isn't who they said they were Yeah. And you're not appreciating the, the lies that are in front of you didn't happen much . Yeah. Then you feel like, okay, this person asked me out, they can pay half. You were the first person to bring this to my attention. And I, I thought it would be a good episode because people don't know what to say. Sometimes. They don't know how to navigate. Let's start with first impressions. How do you make a positive first impression? So let's just say you can't, you know, you , we met today for the first time in person. That was really fun. And you were like, you just gave me your studio number. I'm like, yep . Because that's where I work, <laugh> . And I said, let's do this live. It's gonna be really fun. And you're like, whoa , you're really tall in person. <laugh> , you exist. And I'm like, I am tall. I know that like, people know what they look like, who they are, things about them. Like, oh wow, you really wear glasses, you really look like your pitcher . Whatever that is.

Speaker 2: 12:04

This is really you. I was kind of surprised, to be honest. Yeah. You wore taller than me. And that first impression is important, I guess. Especially when , uh, you know, you are dating. I mean, you should be texting first of all. I mean, you know, you find someone's profile online and you're attracted to their photo. That's all you know at this point. That's right. And then, you know, a as you start texting each other, you get to know each other. And there's a lot to know through texting. I mean, just alone , if somebody spells there along, you know, T-H-E-I-R or T-H-E-R-E and they don't know how to do , use that word, you know, that's, that says alone right there, you know who they are. Some , for some people that matters. For some people it doesn't. You're kind of building this rapport and getting to know that person. And then when you meet them out of the gate, when you first meet them, you kind of expect to see what has been created during those previous, you know, interactions. And you want to see what you expect. And if you don't see that, you kind of build up what's inside of me is this skepticism. You know, you kind of, you , you're kind of reserved and you don't really trust people.

Speaker 1: 13:12

I don't know. I mean, this is a good thing and maybe it's a bad thing because I asked you, are you 30 minutes away? You wouldn't tell me where you lived <laugh> . I was like, I'm not going to your house, you're just coming on my show <laugh> . Um , but I just was laughing that you hold certain things back, but then you don't, we have good chemistry on Clubhouse. So I wasn't worried about you coming on the show because we could have good conversation on Clubhouse. So I'm like, there's not gonna be any difference when you come on the show. But that's what I'm saying. When you align with somebody and you have good chemistry, then you can navigate these things. You can make fun of things.

Speaker 2: 13:52

So you and I, you know, we are on clubhouse, we're not on clubhouse, you know , alone. We in these groups and you kind of got a feel for me. You kind of knew who I was. You , you built some sort of trust before you invited me into your studio. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . Um, me, I'm not that way. I mean, you, you kind of have to build a little bit more, try <laugh> , kind of have to build a little bit more trust with you before you come into my space. It's not that I'm being mysterious or I'm hiding something, it's just that I don't want to be hurt. I'm a good person and I offer a lot. And when I'm in a relationship, I give my 100%. And for being burnt so many times, I'm not gonna give you my 100% until I absolutely know I can trust you. And I guess that's how I'm so standoffish, you know, on dates on, you know, you just kinda kind of stand back a little bit and don't really jump into it a hundred percent yet. 'cause that's just the type of person I am. When I'm in a relationship, I'm gonna give you everything that I am, I'm gonna tell, you know, I'm gonna talk about my family, talk about my my past, talk about my future, talk about my present, who I am, where I work. You know, it's gonna take a lot for you to , to gain that trust. And I know in the past , uh, you know, in previous relationships and , and dating in general, you know, you , you get burned way too much. And I'm not gonna invest my time into that anymore. And that's why I come off like this standoffish. Right,

Speaker 1: 15:16

Right. <laugh> . Well, I think you have to have a level of flexibility too. Where I remember the first place we went was Smith and Walinski . And this was my boyfriend and I , and there were these like really tall, padded swivel chairs that he wanted to pull me close. The restaurant was loud and he couldn't get comfortable. And he, he had a real problem with that. And I was like, okay, do you wanna go somewhere else? And he said, yeah, because to him he hated those chairs. And I was like, okay, high maintenance. In my head I was kind of thinking this guy's gonna be, I don't even know what . But then the second place we went to was trade. And I am so fair skinned. I'm put in front of a brick oven and I feel like I'm gonna pass out and my face is purple. And now I'm having a hard time <laugh> because of that seating situation. So you have to like, break through those awkward moments and just be really human and just be really honest because it is nerve wracking.

Speaker 2: 16:24

It's very nerve wracking, very nerve wracking. Especially if you didn't have any communication that led up to that first date or meeting in person. It's even more nerve wracking. Yeah. So what do you wanna talk about? Do you want to like get into like how to avoid being awkward on that first date? That's kind of hard.

Speaker 1: 16:39

First of all, you've gotta be vulnerable. You've gotta be authentic, you've gotta be vulnerable. That's what people, I think post covid people just, they don't want the representative anymore. Hmm . I really don't think people showing up as their representative is gonna work for you.

Speaker 2: 16:55

No , no.

Speaker 1: 16:56

I think that that's something of the past. Right. I think that's in the reels that we're seeing on Instagram, I just think this is the new age of Aquarius culture that we're stepping into. Yeah . It's a lot easier to just be yourself and it takes the pressure off because if you're nervous, then think about it. If you're nervous, you're not gonna give, be good in a clubhouse room . You're not gonna be give a good interview. I think if you strip away the feeling of wanting to be perfect, 'cause no one's perfect. True. So that's something that's a house of cars anyways. Very

Speaker 2: 17:31

True.

Speaker 1: 17:31

And I think people are more endearing when they're just real.

Speaker 2: 17:37

And that's why, you know, on that first date, there are no expectations for me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um , just leave it totally generic. You know, I'm not gonna open up the door for you. You may think I'm a jerk because I don't do that. So I go to a restaurant with a door that opens up by itself, <laugh>, I make sure you know, that awkward moment when the bill comes down on the table. Yeah. Who's gonna pay? So normally, you know, I do have to be honest, sometimes I pay in advance, so that awkward moment doesn't happen . Yeah. I like

Speaker 1: 18:05

That . That I like people . I, I used to like guys who did that. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:08

So just like pay in advance and you don't even have to deal with it. And they're like, you know, how did what , what happened to the bill? I'm like, oh, I work here so we got it for free. You know, some , some stupid stuff like that. But yeah , I would pay for the bill just to kind of get rid of that awkwardness on that, you know, during that, during that time. Yeah. If my date is, you know, uncomfortable in front of a fireplace or, you know, I would see that body language. Yeah. And then we would move somewhere else and or we'd go to another restaurant, I'd be polite and say, you know, 'cause at this point we're just friends. We're meeting for the first time. Most of us are thinking like, I have to impress you or, you know, I'm not gonna be myself or I have to put my hair in a certain way. I'm gonna wear a color I never wear. So it is very important to kind of , like you said, to kind of be real on that first date. And being real is just to me being like totally generic and neutral. And that's why the door isn't open . And that's why when the , when the bill comes down, you don't fight over who's paying for it. Mm .

Speaker 1: 19:01

I like that a lot. I mean, I think when you called me out for kind of rolling my eyes at you and just like my, my facial expressions do give a lot away . Yes . And you pay attention to that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And it's like, I can't hide that I feel a certain way. I'm just kind of like, okay, he said that he went there. That's fine. That's how you feel and that's how you've been able to navigate. So I don't think I should try to change my expressions about something. And I don't think somebody listening should either. Right. I think if you think something's like shock and awe or something's really funny, I have a really loud laugh. I mean, I laugh at my laugh because it's so ridiculous. That's not really gonna change at this point.

Speaker 2: 19:47

No, <laugh> , why should it, why should you change for somebody else? Why should you change who you are and what you represent for someone else? Especially if you're meeting them for like the first time. Why would you, why would you be different? So authenticity, you know, is, is so important and in , in such a great element. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that will enhance your relationship with anybody. And if they can't handle you being yourself, then you know, like you said, you , that maybe that person is wrong for you.

Speaker 1: 20:17

I think they're wrong for you. 'cause it's like, I think about with you coming into the studio and you kept your gloves on and your jacket on, and I was like, I'm gonna put up the heat. But then again, it's like, I don't know if I, sometimes it gets too hot and then I'm like my menopausal whatever. And so talk , if you look at the body language of not taking your gloves off at my studio, it's pretty funny. Yeah . Sad . I mean, it is a , it is a dead of winter and when you were ready to take off your jacket, you're ready to take off your jacket. Like I'm not

Speaker 2: 20:49

Because you put the heat on purposely. That's why <laugh>

Speaker 1: 20:52

Well, I don't know . I just think

Speaker 2: 20:54

You're like, this guy's gonna get his jacket off. I'm gonna put the heat on.

Speaker 1: 20:57

These are the things that people are reading. One of the things I used to do was know my bag was gonna go find the hook underneath the bar. Yeah . I don't wanna be knocking over drinks and things. Yeah . That's embarrassing. Spilling . I don't wanna do that. That's embarrassing. And another thing that I did that was really helpful is I knew the menu and I knew that I could eat something on the menu.

Speaker 2: 21:20

So before you go on a date, you probably look at the menu before you even arrive at the restaurant. I do. Yeah. I don't do that. I don't think any guy does does that.

Speaker 1: 21:27

I did it because I don't eat seafood. So if it's a heavy seafood menu, I have to know that I can get a salad or something. Yeah , there you go.

Speaker 2: 21:36

Okay.

Speaker 1: 21:37

And so I have a shellfish allergy, so

Speaker 2: 21:41

I have to, that

Speaker 1: 21:42

Would be good. It's like we don't need an EpiPen and , uh, anaphylactic shock on the daar . But that was something that I needed to know. Is there something that I can eat rather than like say buffalo chicken nachos. Like I try to be somewhat normal. And that poses some issues too.

Speaker 2: 22:02

Yeah. I guess

Speaker 1: 22:03

Because if you can't have anything on the menu, then, then you look high maintenance.

Speaker 2: 22:08

That's true. And then there's these dates when you go to these restaurants and if, you know, all of that is not noted in advance, you know, there's some dates that are just like, wow, this person is great. I don't really care what this restaurant serves. You know, you're just there to spend time with each other and to talk with each other. And sometimes you don't even care about any of these little intricacies that I can't eat the food or I can't drink that, or I don't wanna sit there. Sometimes dates go really well where it's just like the sparks fly things happen and we don't even care about what this restaurant is doing. So that's a whole nother conversation. But , um, so I noticed body language, body language is, is a huge thing. And you notice when I came in that I was wearing my gloves and, and my jacket <laugh> <laugh> , which kind of was like closed

Speaker 1: 22:54

Off much.

Speaker 2: 22:55

Yeah. That , that was good. That was good. The other body language thing too that I notice a lot is when people, they put their, their elbow down on the table and they put their hand by their face. Okay. That body language to me tells right away that this person's not interested in me right away. Really? That's an interesting, it's an interesting position. So. Hmm . And you were doing that when I walked in?

Speaker 1: 23:19

Oh, no. The one thing that I do, I know that I do about myself is that I, I'm thinking, okay, so I'm gathering data like crazy. So I hold back in a sense and I sometimes fold my arms across my chest Yeah . Because I'm listening and I'm picking up detail and I'm just gathering data, which

Speaker 2: 23:40

She's what you did too. Yeah . And you're gathering data on me.

Speaker 1: 23:43

Well, 'cause I wanted to figure out how I could help you with some of the, the situations that you've had in the past. So I was doing that not as a judgment, but as a place of caring.

Speaker 2: 23:57

Thank you so

Speaker 1: 23:59

<laugh>. But like, because I sometimes am quiet and let people talk and share, that can translate as aloof. And I know that about myself. Yeah,

Speaker 2: 24:11

True.

Speaker 1: 24:12

So if I don't have the time to listen, I can't gather the data. Because people tell you a lot without telling you.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Very true. Yeah. I wish I had that skill.

Speaker 1: 24:22

You do have that skill . You pick up a lot.

Speaker 2: 24:24

You think so? Well, yeah. I'm , I'm really big on body language.

Speaker 1: 24:26

Oh, interesting. Yeah . I

Speaker 2: 24:27

Have a , I have a huge skill about body language. When I was back in college, I had a professor who made us watch movies without the volume. And we had to figure out the plot and the story. Yeah . Or we get an f Mm . And I watched a lot of propaganda films. A lot of old 1920 films. Uh, you know, Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin , all that kind of good stuff. Which is kind of obvious. But some of them were not so obvious to pick out the story in the plot. And every single time I would understand it. So I knew I had like this superpower for body language. And every time I go to the beach with some friends, I can see a , uh, a couple or, you know, people who are sitting in a blanket maybe about, you know, a mile away. And I can understand exactly what's going on just by their body language. And my friends are like, Hey, you know, are you sure about that? I don't really believe that. So we would walk up to them, ask 'em about the what happened, the story. And I would be absolutely right.

Speaker 3: 25:26

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Speaker 1: 26:44

Well, they say that you make a first impression in like 60 seconds or less. Yeah . And it has nothing to do with the words that come outta your mouth. True. And so Jordan Harbinger came, who's amazing at relationships and body language. He came on my show years back and his whole thing is shoulders back, head high. That's how you walk into a room. I would tend to wear like a flashy coat or I go big or go home. Like I , I I like to use fashion.

Speaker 2: 27:14

I can see that.

Speaker 1: 27:15

To push it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:17

To just, you want, you want attention, right?

Speaker 1: 27:19

I'm an artist. I know who I am. This is how I dress, so I'm not playing myself down. That makes a lot of sense. And if you like it and if you don't like it, and , and there's been plenty of times that my boyfriend's, like I have these vegan leather joggers that I love and he's always like those pants . Like a , he doesn't like them <laugh> . I love

Speaker 2: 27:42

Them . But it's who you are.

Speaker 1: 27:43

I think everyone should have a pair of vegan leather joggers.

Speaker 2: 27:46

Now let me ask you this. Does he wear something that you don't like? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:50

Do you tell him? I'll say, I do not think that that checkered shirt goes with that sweater.

Speaker 2: 27:55

And let me guess. He goes upstairs and he changes. No he

Speaker 1: 27:57

Won't. No he won't. Okay. Because if he thinks it looks good, he's really funny. I just got him a winter coat and the two coats that I got him, he's walks a dog in the woods for hours and he said, I can't get shot. 'cause people are hunting. So that's why he wanted a red coat. <laugh> . So it stand out . Yeah, that's true. And I was like, okay. Like sometimes people have things that they're really particular about that you don't understand why they choke choose that. Absolutely. And so you kind of have to just be like, all right , so they wanna dress like that. It's not the person really. Like is it gonna break, make or break your life that someone's wearing a red coat versus a blue coat? Like, I don't know .

Speaker 2: 28:37

No, it's not gonna matter.

Speaker 1: 28:38

It's not gonna matter. I think you've had some things happen. You have to tell the story about what happened on how the Halloween weekend <laugh> , that is the best story ever.

Speaker 2: 28:51

I wanted to get into body language and using your phone on a date. Oh , that's ,

Speaker 1: 28:54

That's right . No, no, no. Let's stay with it. And we'll do that at the end. So continue with body language, then I'm going to talk about feedback, follow up , texting. I still want to

Speaker 2: 29:05

Yeah. So that body language. Yeah . Are you a fan of when you go out on a date or with anyone? A general, are you a fan of someone who's constantly on their phone, like someone who's supposed to be happy to be with you? And yet, during any space of not talking or any downtime during that reaction interaction, all of a sudden they pull their phone out . How do you feel about that?

Speaker 1: 29:27

I say no phones. However, there are certain circumstances. My boyfriend wanted to watch a show with me the other night and he gets really mad if I don't put the phone down. 'cause he's like, we're doing this together. Yeah . He doesn't ask for much. It's hard for me to watch a two hour movie. Okay. I , I can't help it. Same for me. So I have to make a effort to put the phone aside. However, my mom was in the hospital recently. So certain things like that, I'm washing my phone because if I need to Yeah . To

Speaker 2: 29:59

Emergency.

Speaker 1: 30:00

Right. So there are emergency situations where I noticed too, when my daughter first went to college, I could be working on a job wherever if she called, is she safe? She's in a new city. You know, it was like, sorry . I will sometimes say I'm sorry. I just have to tell her that I'm, I can't be because I don't want her to be just

Speaker 2: 30:22

Yeah. Like your distance or something .

Speaker 1: 30:24

That I'm not her mom . You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah . I do know . So there's certain things that I think you get a pass for , but then there's, you know, the person who's just like, yeah . Can't

Speaker 2: 30:33

Stop. Yeah. They're not interested. They're flipping through their phone. They're flipping through their, you know, their photos. They're texting someone else all while you're there on the first date . And you know what I do? I, I just, I go to the bathroom, I say, excuse me, I'm , I'm , I have to go to the bathroom and I don't come back. <laugh> just , that's it. Done. Wow.

Speaker 1: 30:53

For real. Escaping on a window of the bathroom

Speaker 2: 30:56

Or just like, yeah , no , I just, I have to go to the bathroom. I I'll

Speaker 1: 30:59

And you just leave .

Speaker 2: 30:59

I just leave. I ghost them. I, I hon <laugh> <laugh> . I honestly ghost them. No kidding. Because that is like the most

Speaker 1: 31:07

Rudest thing.

Speaker 2: 31:08

The rudest thing you can ever do to me is to be on your phone while I just spent my time and I'm, I'm sounding like an on this show. <laugh>. I'm sounding like a big jerk. And you're looking at me and like, Brian, don't say these

Speaker 1: 31:21

Things. No, I don't.

Speaker 2: 31:22

Sorry. I'm only kidding. I'm kidding.

Speaker 1: 31:23

No, I think it , you're being real. And there's a lot of things that can set people off. Like, I think if you cancel a date and it's not an emergency, then you're not getting a second date.

Speaker 2: 31:36

And like I said, I am the type of person where if I'm in a relationship, I'm gonna give my 100% mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . I don't wanna regret that. And I'm not being an. I'm just saying that, you know, there's, I'm mean any human being gives their , you know, 100% if they're , if they want to be in that relationship That's right. You give yourself to this other person and you want the attention that's deserved. You know, you don't want somebody on your phone. So Yeah. So if I'm on a date and they're on their phone, I stand up and be like, excuse me. Uh , you know, especially if you talk to them and they're like, yeah. And they look up briefly and like yeah. They answer the question. Then they look back down again at their phone. Uh, I'm like, okay, excuse me, I have to go to the restroom. I'll be right back. Right. And I don't come back. Right. I don't come back. Does that sound mean? That sounds so mean. Well,

Speaker 1: 32:23

I wouldn't handle it that way, but I've heard people who handle it that way. But like, you're really direct. So for example, today for real, I had people with chainsaws and chopping down trees, a neighbor doing this. And I was freaking out about the audio and also mindful of your time. And I didn't know if we could record. And so I just wanted to let you know. And you were like, is she backing out? Like see how like that signal got crossed? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you were like, I was worried. And then you went and like told the them to stop jumping down the trees. And I was like, what? What is going on here? <laugh> . But we had to sort that out. We had to sort it out and that was fine. And I said, I don't like going into a situation where there's like a lot of chaos. I know this because when I do shoots with celebrities and handlers and all sorts of people, those outfits are talked about. Checked off the list. Yeah. Shot lists are created. All of this is handled. It's all prepared. So when they come in, they know who's styling their hair, what they're wearing, because all the air can go right out of the room. Yeah . And all the trust can be broken by a change of plan. That's right. And it's not good. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . So I like to let people know what's happening. Chances are there's gonna be some things you have to troubleshoot.

Speaker 2: 33:53

It's open communication. That's what what it's all about.

Speaker 1: 33:55

And I'm just like, to be honest, so people understand this is where the feedback and things can get lost in translation with texts. I did notice that. You're really good. You're really good. Texter, <laugh> , you use your personality. You're very authentic with your texting.

Speaker 2: 34:16

Well thanks. That's

Speaker 1: 34:17

Good.

Speaker 2: 34:17

I don't know what that means, but, okay.

Speaker 1: 34:19

Well I think that's a strength. I mean, you texted me on, on New Year's Eve and it was like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm watching <laugh> , uh, maestro, maestro, maestro watching Mastro, and I'm feeding my dog pizza. Like <laugh> . That's how I would text anybody if I was back online. I don't like to pretend that I'm doing something that I'm not. Yeah, exactly . I think that's exhausting.

Speaker 2: 34:44

The one takeaway from this podcast is to just, like you said, just be authentic. Be yourself even on that first date, even in the relationship in general, just be yourself. And I think for me, I cannot be myself yet. And that's why I am so standoffish. And that's why I'm so reserved and so skeptical, I guess is the word. Yeah. So if I was myself, I would be burnt. Right. And I don't want that to happen. So that's why I'm I'm that way. Mm . And I am very blunt. I'm very direct. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . I did tell the tree guys to stop. You know, I did ask them to stop because if I was doing a podcast and I'm just very, you know, I know what I want and some people just don't know what they want. And I don't put up with anything because I've been burnt before. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And I guess that put me in a position to where I'm at now where I just, you know, I , I'm very skeptical and I honestly, I don't think it's gonna be any better than what it is because we live in a very different society now. And, you know, my age, our our age. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . It's, it's kind of difficult to expect what was really good in the past in this day and age because I don't think we're ever gonna be there again. You know? Yeah . Does that make any sense?

Speaker 1: 35:56

Well, I think you have to look at the positives and you have to be flexible. And you have to be optimistic. Yes. Because if you're not optimistic, it really changes the vibration. Yeah. So if you're, if you just think it's not gonna be good, then it might not be good. That's true. I think human nature is pretty forgiving for the most part. And I think people are good. Yes. And I think they're accommodating. And I think you just have to go with the flow with this. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 36:26

Yes .

Speaker 1: 36:26

Because it is the wild, wild west sometimes. It

Speaker 2: 36:29

Is . It is. It's tough. I mean, anything to take away from this podcast again. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is to be yourself. And just to sum it up in society, I mean, with dating in general, it's really hard to be yourself. It's harder than ever before to be yourself. I mean, now with online dating, you don't know what , what's on the other side of Tinder or Plenty of Fish or whatever platform that you're on. You don't know what's on the other side. So it's really tough to become vulnerable. It's really tough to be yourself. I wanna be, you want to be, your listeners want to be, but sometimes you just can't. What do you do? You just be yourself anyway. And you open yourself to being vulnerable and being hurt. And , and I guess there's really no way outta that, right?

Speaker 1: 37:12

Yeah. I mean, you're gonna have people say, when people are nervous, they're gonna say hurtful things sometimes. Yeah . And I've had it happen and I would, they would be like, say something and I'd be like, I thought it looked pretty good tonight. Like, I would be surprised sometimes by the things that people would say. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And why are they doing that? That's coming from a place of their insecurity. It's like projection and a lot of comments that just aren't necessary. And it's like we're all trying our best. And by the way, pss , I paid for a babysitter to be here, to have all this, I don't wanna say that online dating is negative, but sometimes people say the wrong thing. Yes. And you can't take it on.

Speaker 2: 37:52

And they don't know. I mean, they don't know that they're saying the wrong thing half the time. No , but you gotta absorb it. Right. Is what you're getting into with

Speaker 1: 37:58

It . Well, you gotta just go with it . You gotta go with it. I , I remember it was a really cold night and my boyfriend brought an extra prayer gloves for me. And I was like, is he gonna murder me? And like alleyways is what , I didn't know what to make of it, but he was being like, Carrie Grant and thought he was being nice and thought about me before he showed up. But

Speaker 2: 38:18

You was , you were still skeptical though. You were still, you still had that.

Speaker 1: 38:22

I was like, what is, this is so weird. Well, not in his mind,

Speaker 2: 38:26

But you're not that way anymore. Right. You're not like,

Speaker 1: 38:28

I tried to go with the flow and just be in the present moment. Yeah . And I think if you're in the present moment of it, then you do much better. Yeah. And I think you hit upon something earlier. You said, I don't have any expectations. No. And I think not having expectations and it's

Speaker 2: 38:46

So good.

Speaker 1: 38:46

<laugh>. Yeah. And just being optimistic. Michael Loie , who wrote the Law of Attraction, he said the date starts in the car ride there. Yeah. How do you think it's gonna go down is in your head. Right? And you said you can't chase downloads with a podcast. You can't chase love. Like you have to just be in that vibing energy of it's just gonna come to you easily and freely. Right.

Speaker 2: 39:11

Stop trying to be in control and, and don't expect anything. That's how you're happy. That's where I'm at right now. I guess. I mean, am I taking like a total 360 on that? But

Speaker 1: 39:21

No, I think, I think it's good. I I wanna talk about how do you know that you're gonna go on a second date?

Speaker 2: 39:26

How do you know you're gonna go on a second date?

Speaker 1: 39:28

Yeah. Like feedback and follow up . So you've said you're a ghoster, <laugh>,

Speaker 2: 39:33

<laugh> . You've

Speaker 1: 39:35

Said you've gone to the bathroom and not come back.

Speaker 2: 39:38

You know, believe it . Believe it or not, that prompted second dates at Someti at some time. You know, the person felt so bad and , and shamed. Uh, which I did not mean to do by the way. I didn't mean to do that. I was just like, I just wanted to get out of a situation where I knew was not gonna work. I I I'm not gonna milk this anymore. If you're on your phone and you're not paying attention, what's the use? I'm out. I mean, this is my time. I , you know,

Speaker 1: 40:03

You're setting your boundaries. Yeah. That if someone can't be caring and pay attention to you, you're right. You should be out in a sense. I don't know that I would leave and sneak outta the bathroom, but I'm just saying that people should be on time. Be punctual, put your phone away. Respectful. Respectful. I can't tell you how many girls I've talked to where they're like, they talked the whole time. They never asked me one thing about me. Yeah . They don't know anything about me. People love to talk about themselves. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . Start there. Yeah. Really listen, be a good active listener. Yeah. I think that's a good tip. Yeah .

Speaker 2: 40:44

So with the second date, I normally already ask for the second date before I even go on the first date. 'cause I set up the expectation or , or the , I don't really set it up. I'm like, not purposely, but during the conversation I'm like, why don't we go on three dates just to kind of see how this is. And no matter what that first one is always, always, always awkward. Mm . Always awkward. It's always gonna be awkward. Yeah. It's the second one. It's the third one that you really find out about that person. You know, especially if they're spaced out. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . So initially, before I even step into , uh, an interaction , uh, you know, physical interaction with this person, whether it be in a restaurant, playing sports, going to a park, whatever, it's always set up beforehand. It's like, okay, why don't we go on, you know, three or four dates and see each other for, you know, we can talk on the phone. And then, you know, the second date can be a month away. And then the, you know, the , the third date can be another two months away. But we kind of, you know, I kind of set that up in the beginning where it's already established that we're gonna go on three dates 'cause it's already agreed upon that that first date is just gonna be a total disaster to begin with. <laugh>, you know , no matter what. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And I can tell you, you know, you , you were asking me earlier about what happened in Salem and on Halloween, and I'll tell you about that. That did not lead to the second and third date. But , uh, <laugh>. But it's normally set up at that, you know, before we even step out into the first date, it's already set up for , for two and three. At least that's what I do because

Speaker 1: 42:11

I I

Speaker 2: 42:12

Like that. You know, it's , it's a set of three to really get to know each other, which is in itself all one big date. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , those three interactions is all big one, big date. So not many make it to number three. Uh , I don't make it to number three. Sometimes , uh, they don't make it to number three. But if you don't make it to number three, then you know, you know, you know, it's pretty much established . Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> what , what the relationship is gonna be like. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 1: 42:38

<affirmative>. Yeah. No, that's interesting. I, I used to say, if you get a second, like if we have a second date, which I, now I'm starting to think I'm as picky as you <laugh> <laugh> . I don't know, I just feel like the second dates, when the second dates happened, it was a relationship.

Speaker 2: 42:59

You think so?

Speaker 1: 43:00

Wow. I , that's always was . Wow. Yeah. So I kind of scared my boyfriend in a sense. 'cause I was like, <laugh> , if there's a second date , you'll probably move in with me by the end of the week. Wow . And he was like, what? Wow . And it was always, it was a fast track. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was like, it was a match. You've clicked, you got along, like you said, all the sparks, it lined up, guy opened and here we are, you know? And so that's when you really hit it off with someone. Like I don't , yeah . I guess. I don't know. I mean, that's how it happened for me most of the time. But I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 43:37

You see how I'm so militant with this now. Like, I'm so strategic and so yeah. You are like planned out. Like, okay, before we even, you know, we need to go on three days before we need to figure stuff out. <laugh> , you see how I am ? This is like, this is, this is how it

Speaker 1: 43:50

Is. Well, you need to, I do think maybe be a little bit more open and optimistic and not be so milant. It's a good tip. Not be so controlling of the uncontrollable.

Speaker 2: 44:00

So the next podcast that I'm on, I'll tell you all the disasters that I , I'm just kidding . I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1: 44:05

Yeah. That has to be a total podcast <laugh> , because there's some stories.

Speaker 2: 44:10

Let's take Carrie's tips and apply them and come back on the podcast and say how it went.

Speaker 1: 44:14

Oh my

Speaker 2: 44:15

Gosh. No , I'm , I'm listening to myself. I'm like, wow, I'm a militant. I really am . I'm a jerk.

Speaker 1: 44:21

No, but the learning is like, what's not working? I don't think I did things perfectly either.

Speaker 2: 44:27

No, I, I have not. Like, you know, I'm not the perfect date either, but I've been on some crazy ones. I mean, the more I talk about this, the more I feel like, like I'm just doing it all like wrong. It's just crazy. Uh , just to protect myself and going on three dates is how I do it. And that's, that's pretty much solid. And how it is. That's second date. I don't know, you second date you guys living with each other? I don't know .

Speaker 1: 44:51

I dunno that we were living with each other, but like about that we were pretty certain.

Speaker 2: 44:56

Really? Yeah. Like you must have had like, some

Speaker 1: 45:00

Kind the first date, even though there was awkward moments. It was like,

Speaker 2: 45:03

So are we talking like a year on the , after that set ? Like , okay, so you guys are talking to each other and then first date, and then what

Speaker 1: 45:11

Span ? First date went into like 15 consecutive dates and he moved in like within like 30 days. Wow. Yeah . But he did, did a lot's of things that I was ready, I was ready for. That's rare ,

Speaker 2: 45:24

Carrie . That's, that's

Speaker 1: 45:25

Very rare. I know. That's rare. Well,

Speaker 2: 45:28

You're lucky

Speaker 1: 45:29

When you know, you know. Yeah . And I just felt like I'd been there a lot. I guess I'm like the Golden Bachelor, you know, they meet and they're , they're like, that's it . Why wait, <laugh> ? That's , yeah , let's get ,

Speaker 2: 45:41

You've been there, done that, you know, this is the real deal. And that's it. I haven't, I haven't been there yet.

Speaker 1: 45:46

But that doesn't mean you won't get there. I don't know . You know , I don't know . So should we save the, the Halloween story from the , do you

Speaker 2: 45:53

Wanna hear the Halloween story? All right . So this is, this is what actually got me on this podcast is is this Halloween story. So I go out on a date, was it the first date or the second date? I don't remember. I think it was the first date. A very mysterious woman. And , uh, we were talking, texting, you know, we talked on the phone, we did some FaceTime just to kinda get to know each other. I'm like, okay, let's go on a first date. So Halloween's around the corner, I decide to, we both decide actually to go to , uh, Salem to celebrate Halloween. And Salem is of course during Halloween, the place to be. And , uh, so we're walking, going through a lot of people. It's a beautiful place. Lots of many restaurants and people dress up and walk around in the streets . So there was this guy who was dressed up as Michael Myers and while we're walking, he pops out from an alley and, you know, kind of scares us. I'm like, oh yeah, that's great. Yeah . That's, that's awesome. Michael Myers. Yeah . Isn't that great? So , uh, we continue on with the date and we keep walking, walking into restaurants. We're walking into some of the witch shops and there's Mr. Michael Myers again. And this time he has a knife and he's standing there a , a fake knife. It wasn't a real knife. And he's standing a distance from us and you can tell that he's following where we're going. And you can see him in the distance just standing there looking at us. And I'm going , I'm like, okay, what the hell's going on? So I look next to my date and I'm like, yeah , that Michael Myers guy is pretty cool, huh ? That's that's awesome. Yeah, this is pretty scary stuff. So we walk by him and he's, you know, you know, his eyes are fixed on us because he is just, his head is turning. You can see his, you know, his head turning where we're walking, looking where we're going. And I'm like, what the hell man? What am I gonna do? Already I'm thinking, you know, this guy's a freak. Is it , you know, what's going on? 'cause Salem is kind of crazy at Halloween time. So as the date progresses and we're talking, you know, three hours, this is all happening within, we start to walk in, in the park, you know, away from the crowds. We're about ready to go get something to eat from one of the food trucks. And all of a sudden freaking Michael Myers comes out from behind the tree. And while we're walking towards him, towards the tree, he comes out like he was hiding. And I'm like, this dude needs a punch in the face or something. 'cause this is just not <laugh> . This is just not right. Something's, something's up. So he jumps out in front of us and all of a sudden he pulls his mask off and all of a sudden three other guys start coming up from behind the trees in , in the park in Salem continue to arrest the , the date that I'm with <laugh>

Speaker 1: 48:28

<laugh> ,

Speaker 2: 48:30

Unbeknownst to me, I did not know the Salem police disguised themselves as Halloween monsters , uh, while patrolling , uh, the street, which is pretty smart. I mean, undercover goes, you know, the extra length in Salem, of course, 'cause it's Halloween time. But these were police officers. It was a police officer in a Michael Myers mask that arrests, you know, full cuffs . You know, you're under arrests telling her her rights. And , and I'm like, what the, am I being punked right now? You know , what the hell is going on? Come to find out she was writing bad checks. And , uh, I went home by myself in the car while she was, you know, pulled, pulled away and in a , in a , going to the police station. Come to find out she was writing bad checks. And uh, and there was a warrant out for her arrest. And they ended up arresting her in Salem. And just recently I got a call back, you know, she's like, Hey , uh, can we , can we meet again? And <laugh> ,

Speaker 1: 49:28

<laugh> , I'm like,

Speaker 2: 49:29

You're outta jail, right? And she's like, yeah, like getting all excited. And I'm like, okay , um, yeah, just can I call you back? Uh , I'll call you back. And I never ended up calling her back. So that was one freaky story that, that's just like one of them that, and here I am ready to open up and this is why I don't , I wait until that second date, that third date, maybe even that fourth date I wait because I haven't really experienced that wow moment. Like this is the person, it's always been all the time. There's always been some kind of caveat or some weird thing, something I'm like, okay, what's going on? It just never made it to the third day. So this is why I'm so

Speaker 1: 50:07

Closed down. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:08

Closed down. <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 50:08

Well , we'll work on it. We'll work on it. But I think, I think that's traumatic that someone left in a paddy wagon and yeah, you still didn't end up in jail and you still have new choices and it's a new year and I think there's a lot of good takeaways Yes . On this episode. Definitely. And definitely I'm excited that you came on. So where can people find you on online dating or,

Speaker 2: 50:32

Oh God.

Speaker 1: 50:33

Well listen to your podcast.

Speaker 2: 50:35

I live on LinkedIn, so if you want to find me on LinkedIn, I don't know if you put links in your show notes or not, but I'm more than happy to put my information on there. Of course, I do a podcast myself. I've been doing podcasting for 20 years with one podcast, which you announced in the beginning of your show. It's at the db show.com. Just check it out and you can, you know, contact me that way.

Speaker 1: 50:54

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here. I thought you were great.

Speaker 2: 50:58

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 51:05

And for now, this week shot at Love dating tips that are inspired by our guests , Brian T number one, you have to be a bit forgiving on the first date, Brian feels it takes a set of three dates to really get to know one another, be patient. And keep in mind that falling in love takes time. Number two, be optimistic. Stay open and flexible, and try not to have an agenda and don't take the missteps. So personally, being vulnerable and authentic can help you turn awkward moments into opportunities. Number three, put away your phone. Be an active listener, be punctual and pay attention to the other person. Being kind and caring will go a long way on that first date. I hope you found some of my tips helpful this week. This is which Shot at Love is here for, to help you find love, keep up the commitment to yourself and commit to helping someone else by sharing this podcast. Stay safe and stay tuned for more episodes. And if you like the show, please subscribe and leave a five star review. I'm Carrie Brett , and we'll see you next time.