Love Transformed With Chris And Natalie Martinez

Today we have two special guest's Natalie and Chris Martinez. Natalie Martinez is the CEO of Strong Women Strong Girls, a non-profit that teaches girls how to be strong young women. At age 25, Natalie became a single mother of two babies. During that difficult time in her life, she became a minister and found love in the church choir. She fell in love with musician Chris Martinez, they got married and are raising three children together. God certainly had a plan for them!

Chris Martinez is a self-taught musician and producer with 22 years of experience. He enjoys collaborating and bringing out the best in independent artists. His philosophy can be summed up in this quote. “when words fail, music speaks”. 

Natalie Martinez is the CEO of a mentoring program that gives young girls skills for lifelong success. Natalie's heart is amazing, as well as her drive to give back to her community. One of her favorite quotes is "where there is a will, there is a way," and this strong woman never quits, especially on someone she loves.

Natalie was a single mother when she met Chris; Chris was raised by a single mother and felt compelled to step in. When Natalie met Chris, Chris was presenting as a woman, his gender at birth was female. Once Chris fell in love with Natalie, he felt safe to transition to a man–who he was all along. Natalie always loved Chris for who he was. She fell in love with the person and didn't care what package he came in; she just loved his soul.

Natalie and Chris share a deeply personal story that reflects strength, diversity, and transition. Kerry Brett, Natalie and Chris Martinez cover a lot of ground and topics include:

What it's like to live in a transgender marriage.
The importance of being open in love.
How to be truly honest with yourself.
Often we want stereotypes rather than finding the love that you need.
Give yourself a chance, connect with the individual rather than the exterior.
Why it's important to question conditioning.
How to overcome misperceptions or judgements of others.
Overcoming tradition, culture, and not being accepted.
Open yourself up to love; be open because you never know what package that person may come in.
Lose labels; things don't have to be in a box. Look for authenticity; people who dare to be who they are.
If a person can't accept or love all of you-whatever shape or form that may be, well, that person isn't for you.

In today's world, all we hear is that we are all in this together. It's important to focus on inclusion and society's acceptance rather than rejection or exclusion because we all want a sense of belonging, and we all deserve love.

For more information about the non-profit Strong Women Strong Girls follow Natalie Martinez on www.swsg.org. Follow on Instagram Natalie Martinez @nluvlee, and Chris Martinez @chrisleesound. To download Chris’s music you can find him on SoundCloud:clmsound.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

I'm Carrie rut, and this is shot at love today. We have two special guests, Natalie and Chris Martinez. Natalie Martinez is t he CEO of strong women, strong girls, a n onprofit that teaches girls how to become strong young women. At age 25. Natalie became a single mother of two babies. During that difficult time in her life, she became a minister and found love in the church choir. She fell in love with musician, Chris Martinez, they got married and together ar e r aising three children. God certainly had a plan for them. When we come back, Natalie and Chris will share a deeply personal story that reflects strength, diversity, and transition. They will share why nothing is better than living your life authentically. And why love always prevails. You won't want to miss it.

Speaker 2: 1:06

[inaudible]

Speaker 1: 1:06

Chris Martinez is a self-taught musician and producer with 22 years of experience, he enjoys collaborating and bring out the best in independent artists. His philosophy can be summed up in this quote when words fail music speaks. Natalie Martinez is a CEO of a mentoring program that gives young girls skills for lifelong success. Natalie's heart is amazing as well as her drive to give back to her community. One of her favorite quotes is where there's a will. There's a way, and this strong woman never quits, especially on someone she loves today. We will talk about Natalie and Chris's unique path and what's so truly special about their relationship. Hi, Natalie and Chris. Thanks so much for being here.

Speaker 3: 1:55

Thank you. Thank you for having us, Carrie.

Speaker 1: 1:57

So it's so interesting. One that you're a minister Natalie, and that you guys met in church. I don't think, u m, I mean, your prayers are answered, but I don't think

Speaker 3: 2:07

Absolutely. Um, as they always say, God works in mysterious ways, so my prayers were answered, but it was very different than what I had anticipated. What was

Speaker 1: 2:17

Your driving force to become a minister?

Speaker 3: 2:21

Um, my driving force to become a minister is that I've always been a spiritual person and I've always had a connection to God. I started out in church when I was 11 years old. And so then I went through various times in my life and after having my two kids and then ending up on my own, you know, I was really in a state of despair and I wanted to go back to my first love t o the thing that brought me the most stability in my life. So I returned to church and joined a church that was in, u m, in Boston and from there just began to rise in the ranks and really wanted dedicate my life to ministry and giving back to people. And it was there that I met Chris. And it's such an interesting, unique story, but I'm happy to happy to share it with you today. Y eah,

Speaker 1: 3:10

I think it's interesting. I mean, I always say it's important to trust the divine timing in life and that God always has a plan for you, but you know who you are. You're not thinking about dating. You're thinking about being a minister in your church, literally sitting in your church. And you say that when Chris walked in the door, he had this like swagger, like Jagger or something

Speaker 3: 3:34

Like you, he got your attention. Absolutely. So just to describe the scene to you, I was sitting in the pulpit and we were nearing the end of service. And throughout that church service, I had been working with a gentleman who was coming in to take over our music ministry. And I was a little frustrated because the music wasn't going the way that I had anticipated for, um, that morning. And that's important for me to share with you, which is also another reason why I really fell for Chris. So I was waiting for the end of service to come along. And then all of a sudden in walks, this, this person with all of this, like confidence and swagger, as I describe it, and he circled the back of the church and ended up over to where the musician was. And I kind of realized that they knew each other, but then after service was over, I walked up to the gentlemen who had been playing during the service and, you know, introduced myself again. And we were talking about the music and he said to me, he was like, Oh, okay. So I'm actually not going to be here. Musician playing Chris is actually gonna play for you. And I got really excited and I was like, Oh, okay. So you know that maybe there's a light at the end of this tunnel. So Chris,

Speaker 1: 4:48

Do you feel like when you came into the church and you saw Natalie?

Speaker 4: 4:52

So when I walked in, I did look around, I definitely like to be aware of my surroundings and I've played in many different churches, uh, before I actually, uh, went to Natalie's church. Uh, but that morning I walked in, uh, definitely with no real expectations. Um, and really just wanted to find my friend who was, she spoke of, uh, the, the music director director at the time. But when I walked in, I immediately heard this voice coming from the pulpit and I looked and I, I saw

Speaker 3: 5:29

[inaudible],

Speaker 4: 5:30

But I mean, you know, just, just a, just a light really

Speaker 1: 5:35

So nice. I know I can, I can see the light in her. This is a funny story. Well, it's not a funny story, but it's funny on Natalie says one night you went to her house and you just never left.

Speaker 3: 5:50

Um, that is funny, Carrie. I actually liked to tell the story that way, but to give this context, Chris and I were growing in our friendship and getting to know each other, you know, working together with the choir. And so he took on the role of being the minister of music and then me being over the choir, in addition to ministering, we began to work very closely together. And that's how we developed our friendship. But then one night we were on the phone and Chris was out at a family member's birthday party. And there was a situation that came up where he was living, where the person that we mentioned, u m, h ad been assaulted outside o f their home. And so naturally Chris didn't want to go back home that night and said to me, you know, told me what was going on. And so I was like, well, you can come to my right. So says the minister, but that's awesome. That's awesome. I l ove i t.

Speaker 1: 6:48

So where you were Chris? You're 10 years younger, right? Oh 13. Okay. So[inaudible]

Speaker 3: 6:57

Every question I ask you guys[inaudible] so

Speaker 1: 7:02

You're younger and you're doing what young people do. You're a partying and you had a regular gig at the verb in Boston, and you must've been pretty taken with Natalie because you took on an awful lot of responsibility, right? From the beginning.

Speaker 4: 7:17

Absolutely. You know, I, again had no real expectations, but as Natalie said, uh, after the first night, I certainly never left maybe just to go home and get some more clothes, but I found my way back every day. It just felt like home. It felt like where I was meant to be. As you mentioned, Natalie was a single mother. I was raised by a single mother and I felt pulling at my heart strings. I wanted to take the place, take the void out of the home, uh, for Natalie and the girls.

Speaker 1: 7:47

That's nice. I always, I said, I wanted to mention that it takes a special person who can step in and raise someone else's children. Natalie, can you tell me what Chris meant to during those challenging years and what he still means to you today?

Speaker 3: 8:04

The biggest thing that I always talk about when I talk about what, what Chris brings to our family is loyalty, stability, and this amazing amount of love. I mean, it's not easy to raise your own kids, but then you're raising three children that you didn't biologically have. And they're all in age ranges that are, you know, my oldest is closer in age to him than I am. So there, you know, you're young and you're learning how to help step in and, and be a parent. And Chris has never referred to our kids as his stepchildren. They are his children. So he has been there through thick and thin. And, and through all of that, he has just demonstrated this love and this, this unconditional passion for just being with us, which, um, helps me to really value the importance of having him and to be Frank, when I was raising the girls by myself, I knew that I would not marry someone unless they viewed my children as their own. I knew it was a tall order to ask for, but it was the standard that I was setting for my family. And it didn't even have to be said to Chris, he stepped right into the role. And from day one, you know, they're his kids. And to this day, that's, you know, that's the way he views them. R ight?

Speaker 1: 9:28

And I, um, photograph all types of families. And I always say your children that you're meant to have they come to you in so many different, unique ways sometimes, but they're meant to be yours. I want to tell the story about how I met Natalie and I. So Natalie and I, a little while ago were both one of four women that were honored at this luncheon that was called empowering women. And Natalie was actually six feet apart. But in between, u m, K rista S impson Anderson, who, w ho i s a gold star, widow and military spouse ambassador, and I just loved both of them right away. And I said, you both have to be on my podcast. And then K andi O tari, who w as the host of the event. And dear friend of ours came over to the table and she was like, C arrie, can I just pull you away for a minute? And I didn't get a chance to talk to Natalie, as long as I got to talk to Krista, but I remember, and I had forgotten about it. She said, I would love to be on your show and do I have a dating story for you? And I was like, okay, like, great. I can't wait. So I had chosen originally I had chosen Natalie, because I was like, this woman is amazing. Like she runs this nonprofit that helps empower women, which is definitely like my mission and platform. So that alone, like I was like, I can totally work her at a shot at love. Like she was a single mom. She's everyone has a story. Everyone has an important story to tell. And so I'm on the phone with her a few days ago, getting ready for this episode. And the first thing I said to her was don't, you're going to be great in the show. I said, you're so well-spoken, you're so authentic. And she was like, okay. Yes, I am a minister. And it was like, it's cool that you're a minister. Like, I love that. And you have all these different pieces and sides of you. And so we're just trying to think about the topics. And then she's like, well, yes, I am a minister. And then she's like, hold on a second. I just want to go. I want to have my husband hear what I have to say. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, okay, that's fine. Like, all right. Like that's how their household works. I was like, right. And I, but I, what I thought, and I, I'm such an intuitive person. And I think that's like one of my gifts a s a photographer. And so I, all I heard was

Speaker 5: 12:01

This love and respect really.

Speaker 1: 12:05

That was like, so came across so strongly. And so Natalie said, you know, Carrie, I am a minister and my husband is transgender. And I was like, Natalie, like, I'm not Katie Kirk, but this is the story, you know? I mean, this is better than any afterschool. Like this is the story we have to tell your story. And she said, okay, well, let me talk to Chris and I'll let you know. And I hung up the phone and I was like, he'll say, yes, I just had this feeling. I don't know. I just felt like I could hear that love and respect on the other line. And so I get a text from you and you're like he said, yes. And I thought that was so nice. So then this is where the learning came for me. Uh, we decided to get on a conference call the three of us. And it was kind of like, all right, let me, I wanted Chris to trust me and say, understand what my mission of my show was and why I do what I do and w what my, why was. And so I'm on this call and I'm asking questions. I'm like, you guys, I'm trying to learn as fast as I can, everything. And anything about the transgender world and you guys. And I said, I'm right now listening to the Caitlyn Jenner book. And you guys are like, put the book down. And I was like, why? Like, you know, Caitlyn Jenner is a very famous story. You know, there's a lot, there's an Olympian, there's the fame. And all the things that come with fame and Caitlin story is important. And Caitlin has a vehicle and an opportunity to raise awareness with the celebrity. But you were like, if you really want to understand what most transgender people, most fraternities run into people, don't have all the fame. Most people don't have all the fame, you know? So

Speaker 5: 14:02

You said, what you should do is

Speaker 1: 14:05

Watch this documentary, if you can, which is called disclosure. And I'm like, okay, I'm on it, I'm on this. Like, I'm going to do it. And so we're talking on the phone and I'm like, I'm stuck the questions that I'm asking, like, you guys felt a disconnect. I felt a disconnect. And I'm like, I am so confused. Like, I'm thinking to myself, I'm talking to Chris, he's the husband, he's the father. He, you know, he's a man. Um, and then I'm like, where's the truth. You guys like, I'm like, no trends like this. No, I'm so lost. I finally just blurted out and I was like,

Speaker 5: 14:45

Chris, what were you born?

Speaker 1: 14:48

Like, what was your gender? Right. And, um, you guys both were like, you both, I think simultaneously screamed. Oh girl. And I thought, okay. And I was like, boy, did I get this whole thing wrong? And that's where I was kind of disappointed in myself. And I was like, why did I just assume that this was going to be a man transitioning into a woman? And so I felt better a little bit better when I watched disclosure, because just in society, through the media and through the movies and through the imagery, they've trained you to think of that. And so that really got my attention. And especially someone who is in the media and I couldn't understand, I was like, okay, why did I automatically think that I'm like, okay, I do have a lot of gay, gay male friends who that's the industry I'm in, you know, stylists and makeup artists. And, you know, they introduced me to drag brunches and that was so super fun. And, u m, I'm like, is it? C ause my, I didn't understand. I'm like my favorite movie.

Speaker 6: 16:04

Well, I did my mind just automatically think that.

Speaker 1: 16:07

And yeah. Can you guys like talk about that, that I'm trying to think from disclosure that they're trying to educate people more, you know, that there, there is transgender male. W ell,

Speaker 3: 16:22

What's interesting about the transgender community is a lot in terms of what you're talking about right now. Most people, if they even know a transgender person, it's typically someone who's transitioned from male to female, which is not our story, obviously. So when I met Chris, Chris was, was, u m, p res was female or presenting as female. I think that's the right way to say it. And I, I t oo. So I want you to know C arrie, I'm doing my best to know the right way to s ay these things and be respectful of my husband, but I'm, I'm still learning and we're 11 years in. So to your point, when I t alked to you about our relationship and boy, do I have a story for you? You know, I would not tell you, I told you that he was transgender. And I guess I just a ssumed that you would think female to male, but I wo uld n ot tell you that without his permission, be cause I think first and foremost, we have to honor the place that the person is in and give them the opportunity to out themselves. Because one of the things we did talk about is safety. And there are some transgender men who are passing and they don't necessarily want to out the fact that they have transitioned from female to male. And I think yo u, you should hear it more from Chris ca use i t's his experience. But as his wife, the things that are really important to me is to honor him in the space that he's in. He's always been a man. I met him when he physically presented as a female. And that was the other interesting part of the story. Because as a minister, I didn't realize I had attraction to a female, but then at the same time, early into our relationship, he tells me he's go ing t o t ransition. And that was totally fine with me. And it was an immediate acceptance of who he truly is as an individual. But ba by, I think you should tell it from your pe rsonal

Speaker 1: 18:23

Well, that's what I was feeling on the phone. When I got on the phone with you, Chris, I was like, I got you, you know, like, I, I could hear your heart. I could hear everything about you that makes you special. And I was just like, again, my mind go. And I go, it goes back to that documentary. It's like, you're trained to think a certain way. And that was a big learning piece for me.

Speaker 4: 18:47

Yeah. I think, um, as Natalie said, definitely society and more so maybe over the last 10 to 15 years, uh, uh, media has definitely influenced how we think of a lot of things. But I think that, um, you know, for me, my personal story, yes. Being born, uh, biologically a female, physically, a female, but never mentally a female. And so having to deal throughout my childhood, in my teens, trying to figure out what this means, you know, um, it might just go on crazy. Um, it was a long time before I even heard the term transgender. Um, so I just had no idea, you know, all you knew of was sort of like the Bush and the studs and the masculine females. Uh, so I was just going along with that until I could really figure out what the next step was.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Right. Young people get it. And so I started to think about that. I'm like, cause my daughter was the one who has a really opened my eyes and she was like, mom, y our show, like no o ffense, l ike no young people i sn't a ny d ay. A nd I'm like, what? And she's like, yeah, like you don't know your pronouns and they, then t here's, I'm like, what is going on? You know? A nd i t's so powerful, but she was so spot on and I'm like, okay, well, and I, and I did make a point on one episode and I said, you know, Morgan, I did say that th e s how is for everyone. And it's really important to me that this show is for everyone. And, and she said, well, I'm so proud of you because you chose nonbinary day to do it. And I thought these kids are so special. They're so, but you know, and I think, but my parents are like, they sound like your parents, Natalie. And so, um, but the young people, so I was thinking about this and I'm like, okay. I grew up on the Brady bunch. Like if the Brady bunch went on vacation, I went on vacation. Like that was my life. It was one TV show. And if we went to the theater, which was very rare, u m, it was either the Nutcracker or Annie. A ll r ight. And so I've been taking my daughter to rent since she was a little girl. U m, all right. And t hat, that I've been every year. I mean, I saw in that, in that when I hear the voices, it's just the most beautiful production. And you know, these kids have g lee, they have all these things that we never had this

Speaker 3: 21:25

And gets it. And that's, what's so powerful about all of the movements that we see happening around us at this time. They are the change makers and they are the ones that are going to bring across equality in the way that we need to see it. And I hope that it's within our lifetime, that we get to see these young people rise up and be the leaders that we need.

Speaker 1: 21:45

Right. I think we will. I mean, they just serve so forceful. And that's part of the, every day

Speaker 3: 21:53

You mentioned that, you know, your daughters and how she got it. And I think one of the things that's important about our story in terms of, you know, how Chris came into our family. I had the three girls and at the time when I met him, they were four, eight and 10. And even before he even discussed his transition, it was our d aughters that began to call him by male pronouns, without us asking them to, without him even saying he was going to transition. And, you know, he can certainly tell you from his perspective, but that in itself was so powerful that these young kids had, you know, Ch ris l iving in their home and saw him for the man that he is without us even telling them

Speaker 1: 22:43

It's beautiful. I think there's, so this is why the story is so beautiful. It, it took, like you said, Chris, you never, you know, you, you didn't hear these words. You didn't know that you would be able to transition. And as time went on, it was the love of Natalie. And that was that safe space to be able to be like, this is, this is what I need to do. And, and it was your kids, your amazing kids that gave you the push

Speaker 4: 23:14

Absolutely gave me the push, gave me the strength and really just let me know that it was okay to be myself, you know, not having to say those words, but as Natalie said, you know, out of the blue, really just out of the blue, uh, using the male pronouns, it just blew my mind honestly. U m, and it just made it that much easier. U m,

Speaker 1: 23:36

Yeah, that's nice. All right. Well, we're going to take a short break, but we will be discussing changes, challenges, and transitions and becoming best authentic self.

Speaker 7: 23:49

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Speaker 1: 24:23

Then we're back with Chris and Natalie Martinez. Natalie. I love how you said when you fell in love with Chris, you fell in love with the person and you didn't care what package he came in. I think that is so beautiful.

Speaker 3: 24:39

Yeah, absolutely. I've loved Chris. Honestly, from the day I met him, he, he captured me and he captivated me. And like we said, even though he was presenting at that time in a female form, I could just see how genuine he was, his energy with me. And one of the funny stories we tell is that, you know, even though I was in a position of power and when I went to meet him that morning, and I asked him a question about, u m, something to do with the choir and he literally didn't answer me and walked away and it wasn't, and that was one of the things actually that drew me more to him because people don't do that to me. Um, s o later when we talked about it, I think he didn't think I was really talking to him because the other person was there. An d s o we were having like a conversation between three people, but just the fact that he did that, I was like, Hm m, who is this person that, you know,[i naudible], he's just, I have just lo ves C hris for every inch of who he is, all that comes with it. But I just have to say it again. He loves me just that way as well. It's not easy dealing with Natalie Martinez and this is a guy that can handle it. Ri ght.

Speaker 1: 26:03

And we were, when we had the break, we were talking about, you said you really liked my speech where I said it took, it, took a Oscar winning celebrity to tell me that Carrie don't change one thing about you because smart men l ike smart women. And I, I had to hear that apparently, because I always felt like the same, like, you know, it's not easy. I always felt like I was a little much, you know? And, u m, I was always supposed to be a little much. I wasn't supposed to play Dan dim, my light. I was always supposed to just keep going. And so I like how you framed it for me. You're like, you know, C arrie later in life, I realized that I liked either men or women. And I thought that was good. How you said that. And then that's when you said you didn't care, which like which way C hris was w anting to present himself because y ou just l ove the soul, l ove the soul. And I mean, how powerful, and I think that's where your children come in is that children, they don't have an agenda. You know, they, they like they see you. Exactly. And I think that's, and I see it from photographing, you know, for a whole career photographing children. But I think Natalie, you are special. And in my research, I learned that most relationships don't make it through a transition. And Bruce Jenner got divorced three times because Kaitlin was always there. And I watched a recent interview with Diane Sawyer and I thought it was so amazing because when Caitlyn Jenner said, she wasn't sure who her next partner would be, if it would be a man or a woman, but I thought it was so nice because she said, she's just looking for a nice person. That's exactly it. And I think, you know, Natalie, you have taught me so much about being open and love in whatever way that love comes to you. Do you want to expand on this?

Speaker 3: 28:16

Sure. I've always been the kind of person that's open and accepting to people. And what is interesting about our love is that again, not putting any pretenses onto Chris while I wanted someone that would accept my kids as their own fundamentally, and honestly not really sure about my own sexuality, having grown up in the church from 11, you know, and meeting Chris. When I was in my early thirties, I fell into that traditional path of like, you know, you don't deal with the feelings that you have going on inside and, you know, and it wasn't as open when I was growing up too, to know that you were like gay or lesbian or bisexual or whatever. So long story short, really my approach to loving someone and getting to know someone is the attraction. And it's the quality that bright that comes into that they bring into the relationship. And I really hope for that for a lot of people, you know, oftentimes when you love men and women, you're bisexual, pansexual. Sometimes you're looked at kind of weird, but my hope for people is that they get out of wanting the person that's, you know, taller than them, or that makes more money than them. And I'm speaking specifically to females, you know, oftentimes we want the stereotypical individual, but it doesn't bring the love that you really are looking for. And in the case of Christa and I mean, I know that people can't see us, but Chris is shorter than me. Chris is younger than me, you know, but he is the love that I needed in my life. And, you know, traditionally, you know, my, the biological person of my ch my children fit those criteria way taller than me, you know, and we lived in those gender roles, but it was there. Wasn't no love there. And so I was able to move outside of that and I would encourage anyone listening to just really give yourself a chance, you know, stop X-ing out someone because of these superficial things. Because at the end of the day, if you really allow yourself to connect with the individual, then you have a shot at love.

Speaker 1: 30:28

Oh, that's so nice. And I, I had a top 10 list of the qualities that I wanted in a man. And I ha it was my mentor who said to me, can you take tall? Like, why is tall, number one on your top 10 l ist? Like last I checked, you keep dating six, four months, o r what are you doing? U m, yeah, I mean, I totally agree. And then, as far as these relationships, when surviving a nd transition, Chris, how common is it to find someone like Natalie?

Speaker 4: 31:04

I would say not in, at all 0%, Natalie is extremely rare. Um, not only, um, in the way that she loves, uh, but just the person that she is in general. Uh, I've never had the support of anyone. Uh, like I do with, with Natalie. It's almost overwhelming to be honest with you, but it's, it's a gift

Speaker 1: 31:33

As a gift. And I love when people can appreciate that gift and really like, appreciate the person that they love, because at sometimes I think people take a lot of things for granted, and I know myself, like I couldn't have done this podcast and run my business if I didn't have the support of my boyfriend. And, you know, he is so encouraging. I don't ever forget that. And I definitely appreciate that. You know, I had mentioned earlier that nothing is better than living your life authentically, but sometimes it's tough. Like, Natalie, you just touched upon it. It's like here you are a minister in a church. Like we didn't even talk about the church piece, Chris, you always knew, or you, or I'm not sure when you knew that this would be your path and in your soul, you were always a man, but a big transition can affect other people. What do you think was like the hardest part, like you were talking about, you know, growing up in the church and growing up in a large family, was it other people's opinions? That was the hardest part. It doesn't sound, I mean, your children sound like they're just, they sound like they're, they have Natalie's heart, you know?

Speaker 4: 32:44

Right. Absolutely. Um, so like I said, you know, growing up with a huge family and spending all of my days in church, my family heavily impacted my life and my decisions quite honestly, even now. And I'm 31 and have not necessarily had the same contact with my family as I did growing up. But just with all the teachings, it still impacts my life. It still makes it hard for me to, to be myself authentically. Uh, even when dealing with, wanting to see my grandparents and knowing that I will be mis-gendered with wanting to see my own mother and knowing that I will be mis-gendered, um, it makes it extremely hard. I think that also at the same time, it makes my life with Natalie and our children and her family, um, as well, specifically, one of her nephews in her adoring mother. U m, I really don't know where I would be without them.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Yeah, your mom, I feel like your moms should be on the show. I feel like your mom is amazing

Speaker 3: 33:58

Is Chris's biggest fan. And I just have to tell you, she does not side with me at

Speaker 1: 34:04

All.

Speaker 3: 34:07

Anything that my, that my mom thinks is right. Comes from Chris. So yeah. Wow. Chris has he, he has taken my mom over.

Speaker 1: 34:20

That's nice though. Wow. There's so many nice pieces to your story here. Now this is, and I have to say, Chris, thank you so much for, for trusting me with your story. I really feel so honored and I feel so grateful that, um, you taught me so much. I've really learned an awful lot. And I think hopefully some other people can learn from this episode as well. But Natalie mentioned to me that in today's world with the social injustice that's happening, you know, I liked what you said, Natalie, you were like, we, we stand for your love. And you also said, it's possible to find love, but you know, sometimes it comes in a different way. And, and this is what comes with, with, with your love. And when you say that, does that mean like judgements from society or the church? Like where do you feel like you had to overcome the most?

Speaker 3: 35:24

Most of all, we, as a couple have had to overcome people's misconceptions or preconceptions about our love and about who we are. So there's a of different ways to describe this. Looking at us, walking down the street, I'm taller, he's younger. So there are times when people think maybe he's one of my kids as opposed to being my spouse. So we have to overcome that. We have to overcome our culture and being African-American and being heavily raised in the Protestant church and all that comes with that. And that's a huge thing. That's a part of the A frican-American community right now, and people within the LGBTQ community as well, and having to deal with not being accepted and with God and church being at the core of who we are at the core of who I am, because I thank you for continuing to refer to me as a minister because I am, I still have my license. It's who's, God's created me to be, but because of institutional religion, I haven't been able to really operate in that path the way that I was originally and to have had to take my gifts and operate, you know, the way God wants me to in a different way. So tradition and culture has also been a part of making things difficult for us, but at the end of the day, it comes down to us being human beings and us being conditioned. And that's what I would love for your listeners to hear is that, you know, you gotta be able to question the conditioning that you've been brought up in. So many traditions and families are amazing and they help us to be who we are, but then there's a lot of times that those things are terrible and they, and they hurt people. And they, you know, they, they destroy lives. I mean, Chris's family is huge to his life and it's been a tremendous loss, but because we stick together and we are thankful for those that stand with us because his brother and his partner are right in our corner. And there are some of those that are like our best friends from his family. But then, you know, it is a loss for all of the many others that just won't accept or won't allow him to be who he is and won't allow us to be together because, you know, even just the age factor as well, right.

Speaker 1: 37:51

Just too bad, you know, me getting divorced and having, I always say it was like, I got divorced twice, but all the things that happened in my life made me the person that I am today. And so people have judgments about, are you married? Or why aren't you married? How come you got divorced? You know, it's just, it's crazy town. And, um, it's unfortunate, but it's unfortunate that like, you have to say things like this is my legal right to be married to the person that I love like that that's hard.

Speaker 3: 38:28

Exactly. We took our kids on vacation to Florida before, um, marriage passed at the federal level. And I wasn't worried about it, but I had had to say to him, we had to know that God forbid if something had happened to us or happened to me specifically in Florida. And I was no longer able to care for our children, he would not have had legal rights to care for his kids that he had raised already for eight, 10 years. I don't remember when that was a couple of years ago, but, but it was before marriage equality was passed. And so even just traveling with our children, you know, we couldn't even have the safety that he can parent them. If something were to happen to me,

Speaker 1: 39:17

That's scary. That's really scary.

Speaker 3: 39:20

But now we can. That's awesome.

Speaker 8: 39:23

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 39:27

And you sound like an amazing dad, Chris. Thank you. So sadly, this is my last question. Love in marriage take work. And sometimes that consistency and commitment. Aren't easy. Natalie, can you tell me what you said yesterday, about how you measure a relationship? Because I think it's so spot on.

Speaker 8: 39:47

Do you remember what you said? I mean, I think the thing that I always go back,

Speaker 3: 39:54

Which is true and authentic for our relationship is that again, you know, Chris has always been with us. He has been there through thick and thin. And when I say he's been there, it's not like he's been like, I'm like holding a knife over his head or, you know, holding him at gunpoint, but he's always been a part of our lives because he wants to be, he's been consistent and he's, you know, again, he's never left and it's because he wants to be with us and he wants to be a part of our, our family. And so I love his

Speaker 1: 40:30

It's. It's like, I think I said, we were talking about how early in my relationship. I mean, it was like when, when my boyfriend came into my world, it was, it was literally like no honeymoon phase, just putting out fires for him. And he had to step in and really become, I was like, can you go to the dump? And can you drive my daughter to soccer? Like I needed help. And I needed a real partner who was gonna rise up and be, be there. And so when you meet someone as a single mother and they can rise up and really become this man that you need, I think I was talking about when I ruptured the two d iscs in my neck and I thought, a ll r ight, this is it for me. Like, I don't know that I'll recover. And I really learned a lot about my relationship. A nd I think during this pandemic as well, people are really seeing people who they are. And I think you said something like how you measure a relationship, you measure it in the struggles s ometimes. Like that.

Speaker 3: 41:30

That's exactly right. One of the things that is most about the love between Chris and I is that I'm trying not to be emotional, but anytime that I am down and out and I have, you know, the biggest struggles Chris is always there. And I did mention this to my daughter the other day I was saying to her, I was like, you have to understand that it's not the good times that demonstrates whether or not a p erson's g oing t o be there for you. It's what they do in the bad times. R ight. And I was really sick over the summer. And I mean, Chris was by my side. I was to the point where we weren't even sure about my outcome in terms of my health. And he never left my side. And that's one of many times that he's been there for me and for the kids. And I mean, even with raising kids that wa nt t o p ush back and you know, what the teenage years are like, but he's there through the hard times. And that's what solidifies to me that his love is real and is g enuine. And he's with us because he really wants to be with us.

Speaker 1: 42:43

Nice. And you know, you talk about hard times and in today's world, it's all hard times right now. And we keep hearing that we're all in this together and I'm glad, I'm so glad we could focus on love and society's acceptance rather than rejection, because we all want a sense of belonging. Thank you so much for sharing your story and teaching us the power of becoming your authentic self. You two have seen it to each o ther's soul and have such profound love for each other. What's next for you? I'm telling you, you g ot t o do i t.

Speaker 4: 43:19

Um,

Speaker 3: 43:20

We're both trying to figure out our next steps. Honestly, we have been talking about doing something together personally. I would love it if Chris would release more of his music. Um, and maybe I am not a musician, but I certainly love to hear his music and he has a special sound for the world, but, uh, I'm not really, we're not really sure. Right.

Speaker 4: 43:42

And nothing concrete, but we're definitely talking about next steps and certainly maybe a podcast for sure.

Speaker 1: 43:49

Uh, well, I told you, I, I, I really think there's a need for the transgender world. And I think it was like 80% of Americans. Don't, don't have don't know someone transgender, but there's 1.4 million transgender people in the world. So there's a market. And I, that I just feel like with your music, music background, Chris, and your ministry background, I think you guys could do something for sure. And I just want to end on some words that were in this new documentary that I've, I guess I've played on repeat now, but never has there been almost an urgency to connect through stories. And for the first time in history, trans people are taking control of their own storytelling and the more positive stories out there, the more gains for transgender people in the community. And one of the lines in the documentary was none of us wins. If one of us gets knocked down and I thought that was so powerful. You both live in Brockton and Brockton is referred to the city of champions because that's where Rocky Marciano and Marvin Hagler came from. And I want to thank you for being fighters for qu ality, we ll b eing champions for transgenders. Thank you, Ka ren. Thanks so much. And for now this week's Tinder tips. Number one, open yourself up to love, really be open because you never know what package that person may be in. Number two, lose labels. Things don't have to be in a box. Look for authenticity. People who have the courage to be who they really are. Number three, if a person can't accept or love all of you, whatever shape or form that may be. Well, that person is n't f or you. I hope you found some of my tips helpful this week. This is what shot at love is here for, to help you find love. Keep up that commitment to yourself and commit to helping someone else by sharing this podcast. Remember to stay safe and stay tuned for more episodes. And if you'd like me to photograph you for your online dating profile DM E, or email me about my shot at love promotion, I'm Ca rrie B r ett, and we'll see you next time.[i naudible].