Accountability vs Control: Supporting Without Codependency in Soul Recovery

In this week’s episode, I sit with a heartfelt question from our community—how do we hold someone accountable without slipping into control and codependence?—and we look honestly at what true support really is, including whether asking a spouse to “prove” sobriety crosses a line; from a Soul Recovery perspective, we remember that we are powerless over other people and powerful within ourselves, so instead of policing or shaming, we practice loving detachment, clear boundaries, and compassionate curiosity—asking, “What would truly support you?” while staying anchored in our own healing. The hard truth is we cannot make anyone recover, and when we try to manage their journey it often comes from our own fear and wounds—which means it’s an invitation back to our inner work. 

This episode begins a new two-part experiment, and on Friday’s Bonus podcast by subscription, I’ll take you deeper, applying the 9-Step Soul Recovery Process to dig deeper in the 'how to' on this topic.

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This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not allied or representative of any organizations or religions, but is based on the opinions and experience of Rev. Rachel Harrison or guests. The host claims no responsibility to any person or entity for any liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly as a result of the use, application, or interpretation of the information presented herein. Take what you need and leave the rest.

Chapters

• 1:24 Can You Hold Someone Accountable?
• 3:12 Soul Recovery: Taking Our Power Back
• 4:54 Control vs. Accountability
• 7:29 The Nature of Addiction
• 12:18 Support Without Shame
• 22:14 We're Powerless Over Others
• 28:34 Awakening Your Intuition

Transcript

Rev Rachel Harrison: 0:42

Today's episode was in reflection to one of the comments made by a community member, and the question was can you hold someone accountable and not be in control? And I think this is really important from our soul recovery perspective. How do we help support the people in our lives who are trying to maybe get sober or trying to do better in their lives without being in control and losing ourselves and falling back into codependence? I'm also conducting an experiment for this episode, which is that you will have the main episode here on Monday and then I'm going to do a deeper follow-up dive using the nine-step soul recovery process on the bonus podcast on Friday. You can listen to that for free on Patreon or support the show by becoming an Apple Podcast subscriber or Patreon member. Enjoy the episode.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 1:30

Welcome to the Recover your Soul podcast a spiritual path to a happy and healthy life. My name is Rev Rachel Harrison. I started Recover your Soul after having profound changes in my life from my recovery of alcoholism, codependency and control addiction. I was guided to share the tools and principles of spirituality and soul recovery to help others transform their lives as mine was transformed. For us to overcome external circumstances, we need to turn the attention to ourselves, focusing on our inner change and healing. Positive results in our lives will follow. Welcome to the Recovery Soul Podcast and community. I'm Rev Rachel and I'm just so honored to be here with you today. We are walking together on this spiritual path to a happy and healthy life. We are learning how to take our power back. We are learning that we can be okay when the people in the world around us are pretty complicated, because it is complicated and our lives are complicated and if you're here, you might be in a complicated and difficult and potentially painful situation in your life as well. And this soul recovery process is giving us tools. The nine steps soul recovery process is giving us tools on how to manage the stuff that's on the outside, by turning the attention to ourselves, doing our own inner spiritual work, really recognizing what's going on with us, because everything is an opportunity for our soul to learn and grow and expand. This is a spiritual path. This is our own awakening.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 3:09

And one of the things that we talk about a lot is addiction, because that's sort of how this was formed for me. I'm a recovered alcoholic. More than that, I'm a recovered codependent. My husband was an alcoholic. My kids are still dealing with addiction. They grew up in an alcoholic home. They did what they learned, they did potentially what was in their genes and that whole process of learning how to handle a household and a system that ran off of addiction and heal myself, first and foremost. And it has transformed and changed our family dynamics. Not that my kids aren't sober, because they certainly are not. Not that my husband's sober, because, as you know my story, I've been sober seven and a half years. He just came around to solid sobriety a year and a half ago.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 3:59

And what I wanted to talk about today is this concept around control Control versus accountability. How do you hold somebody accountable without being in control if they are on a path of wanting to make change in their life? Maybe it's recovery, maybe it's doing better in their physical fitness or in their health or in their mental well-being, whatever it is and you are with somebody and you want to be helpful in helping them to be accountable. And how do you not control? And this came because I got a comment and I wish I could remember where the comment was. I can receive comments on social media, from different posts, or on YouTube, from videos or on Spotify, and sometimes people email me. So I love, love, love when you give comments, even on the Patreon page. I love that you give comments because I want to know what you're thinking, I want to know what's going on for you and a lot of times it helps me to be able to respond on the soul recovery journey.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 5:01

And her comment was how do you hold somebody accountable when they are on their own recovery journey? And for her, it's alcohol with her spouse. Thing that she mentioned in the comment was is it okay for me to have him blow in the alcohol meter when he's supposed to be being sober? He has a car that he can't drive unless he uses the whatever that I'm not even remembering what it's called where you have to blow into it to drive. But can I also make him blow at home to prove to me that he's sober? And I thought this was such a great question because we have this dance between accountability and what is that when it's in control. So we're going to talk about that from a soul recovery perspective and I'm going to do something today.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 5:55

That has been an experiment, because many of you know that I have a bonus podcast every Friday. I started this a couple years ago. It is a incredible deeper dive into the soul recovery journey, and I've been trying to figure out how to utilize this platform to really benefit the people in this community to the most, and I had been kind of toying with the idea of rebranding it into more of a spiritual space where we could take a deeper dive into the spiritual space. And I'm leaning away from that and going to do that in another space of the Awaken. Your Soul is going to probably just be a YouTube channel, but I really want to help you in the soul recovery and the soul recovery process and, especially as I'm working on the books, that it's clear to me how many of you are right here in this deep place in your life where you've got somebody who says they're going to be sober, but they're not. They're making different choices. So how do we use soul recovery? So I'm going to do an experiment today I'm going to do the normal podcast and then this Friday on the bonus podcast, I'm going to dig into it even deeper. I'm going to take this concept and we're going to work on it from the nine step soul recovery process. I'm going to give you a little bit more in depth what you would do to process through, because I can't get to that depth of description in these podcasts. It just would. It's too much, it takes too much time and I get I get a little fuzzy about how to give you the how-to information. So we're going to do an experiment. So on Friday, on the bonus podcast, which you can listen to as an Apple podcast subscriber or a Patreon member, and on Patreon you can listen for the first week for free, so you don't even have to pay. On Apple it's only $3.99 a month, and on Patreon you can decide whether you want to be a $5, $15 or $25 a month subscriber, depending on how you want to support me. So I really want you to have it for free. So go get it for free on Friday, okay. So just so you know this is an experiment. We're going to see how it goes.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 8:02

In soul recovery, we are learning that we are powerless over every single thing outside of ourselves. This is step number two in soul recovery. It is a profound change when you start to realize that, no matter how loving you are, no matter how good intentioned you are, no matter how much you know for a fact that if this person would make these other changes in their lives. They would make these decisions in their lives, that they would benefit that it learning that it is not our job to force or make or fix or control somebody else's journey. But that doesn't mean that you don't show up from your best, most healed, most authentic, most loving self. But that most healed, authentic, loving self doesn't always mean that we're there in the mix of it, with them for every step of the way, and it may mean that you don't end up having a relationship with this person. It may mean that you have a relationship, but you have clarity of what loving detachment is.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 9:28

The first part of this conversation where she's saying is it okay or should I I think it was actually should I have him prove that he is not drinking by blowing as a form of accountability, when he actually can't drive unless he blows clean? What does that look like in soul recovery? What I first and foremost want to say is that every one of your situations is unique and different to you. There's no way that I can sit here in this space and have an idea of every person's situation. How many years you've been together, how many times you've been on this rodeo ride, what are the conversations that you have together? What is your soul contracts together? What's your level of commitment to your own healing? What is their level of commitment to their own healing? There's so many variables that are so unique to each and every person that the key concepts in this that I'm going to stay afloat on a more soul recovery, higher level, I want you to recognize and know that you are in your own unique situation and there's so much wisdom within you. There's so much wholeness and wisdom within you to be able to access what you need in this moment to make the right decisions for yourself. I'm going to talk on the surface level.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 11:01

Addiction is this crazy aspect of ourself where we can say in any moment, I mean, I can't. I've said this before, I'm just going to say it again. I can't tell you how many times when I was in the depths of my addiction that I told myself I was not going to drink. That day, I didn't want to drink. That day I knew I was drinking poison. I knew that it was killing me. I knew that my life was falling apart. I knew that the greatest thing that I could do for myself was to not participate in drinking, that it was not good for me in any form. And yet, whatever that is within you where you lose control, is what drives you to the liquor store, is what buys the bottle of wine or the beers, it's what brings you home. Liquor store is what buys the bottle of wine or the beers. It's what brings you home, and the whole time you're saying to yourself I'm not going to do this. I looked myself in the eyes and said I wasn't going to do it. I looked my husband in the eyes and said I wasn't going to do it. And there I am doing it, and that's the part that needs some grace. But it isn't an excuse Because ultimately, the incredibly profound piece is that we have choice and we can make a decision at every moment.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 12:20

Such an important piece to me is even in those moments when I was in this flux of fighting with myself. It would not have helped if someone had said I need you to prove to me that you're sober and I'm going to. I need accountability for this. That would have felt shameful to me. And again, I really want you to recognize that each one of your situations is unique and different, and so there's a lot of other safety factors. You know, are they driving kids in cars and you know all this stuff. That is your unique situation. It the likelihood for me able to make that decision and choice for myself reduces, because then I'm stuck with the shame that I feel like I'm receiving from somebody else and I'll use this right now for my 30 day sugar cleanse that I'm on right now. And if any of you are following me on social media, you know that I did a post that on August 4th I started a 30 day of no sugar and I invited all of you to join me, not necessarily on sugar, but it was off of the the addiction and the nine step soul recovery podcast that I did on July 7th.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 13:36

What in your life are you having this habitual situation in your life where you can't or you don't feel like it's working for you? I know that sugar is a trigger for me. I do not have a food addiction, but I will choose a sweet over something savory and healthy if I have to get something quick. And it's hurting my hands. It's making my arthritis insane. You know my hands are swollen, my joints ache, I'm clearly inflamed. It's not good for me. I weigh a little bit more than I'd like to. I don't feel as good as I'd like to and in that same sense, I know, just like when I was drinking the poison of alcohol, that it's not good for me. So I made this commitment on the 4th of August to not have sugar for 30 days, and then I will see and work a healthier lifestyle and once I get past those cravings that I've been having, I definitely just want to move into a place where it is a very minimal place in my life, instead of having as many sweets as I've been having on a regular basis.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 14:45

Are you ready to step into your soul recovery? Visit the website recover your soulnet to learn more about the nine step soul recovery process. I hope that you'll join us the first Monday of every month for the free soul recovery support group on zoom, where we learn more about soul recovery and connect with each other. If you'd like to work directly with me to move through the nine step soul recovery and connect with each other, if you'd like to work directly with me to move through the nine-step soul recovery process, I'm here for you, but you can also choose to work the steps on your own, with individual modules intended to support you to work at your own pace and on your own time. And if you want even more soul recovery, join us for the Recover your Soul bonus podcast for Patreon members and Apple podcast subscribers, where I interview amazing people sharing soul recovery tips for us and also do spiritual book studies. You can also find daily inspiration on Facebook and Instagram and join our private Facebook community. Visit the website for more information, links and registration for everything. Back to the episode. Registration for everything. Back to the episode. Pee pass.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 16:02

And so we went into the tent and we got some Italian food and we had. We were having some pasta and this lady came around with this big box of amazing looking freshly made desserts Cream puffs, one of my favorite things on the dessert tray and I just said, thank you so much. I'm doing a no sugar thing right now. And she said, okay, if Richard turned to me and kind of assaulted me, right, well, it's a good thing you didn't have any sugar, I bet you were really tempted. You know it's a no, no, no, no. And it did this whole guilt thing about how I better stick with my diet. That would not have helped me want to continue to make this choice because it wasn't easy to not take the pastry. You know what's interesting, the accountability that I feel is so strong within me right now, the choice that I'm making, that I didn't want any of. I really didn't need or want any of that, but him not doing that made it so much easier for me just to stand in it and be really grateful. He was like, wow, those look delicious. Good job. And he didn't have one either, because he's doing reduced sugar. I felt supported in that moment. Good job, not. Oh, it's a good thing that you didn't right.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 17:20

We do this thing where we think that we're being helpful for the other person but we're really just shaming them. And this is very complicated when somebody is trying to quit drinking and I don't want to discount how incredibly complicated it is because you've had somebody who you feel has lied to you and I want you to hear me say that in those moments when they're looking you in the eyes and they're saying, I want this, these are the decisions I'm going to make, they feel and they want those things. In those moments Addiction is not about the substance or the behavior. Addiction is about the soul in the emptiness, and the work that needs to be done inside and ultimately, in the end, we can't determine whether somebody wants to heal or not on the inside. We can't make anybody love themselves. We can't force them to take care of themselves. We can't force them to want that for themselves.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 18:20

And so, ultimately, this concept of accountability versus control is very complicated, because my belief is that it is a conversation that you have with that person when they're in their most right mind and you ask them what would be most supportive to you. How can I support you in this? What would be things that I could say? What would be things that I could do to be helpful to you? Now, one of the things that's helpful is Rich is not having sugar with me Now. He's having low sugar, not no sugar, because he's still having a particular coffee thing that we do in the mornings that's got some coconut sugar in it. I'm not doing that, I'm just doing oat milk. So his really like not having a dessert in front of me was helpful and supportive to me, and that's something that we decided together, and he actually very clearly said I'm not doing no sugar, but I will do low sugar and I certainly won't have dessert and treats in front of you. That's a conversation that we had together.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 19:29

So when you have somebody who is in the throes of their own recovery and they say to you I need you to help me stay accountable. You need to ask more questions like, well, what would that look like? What kind of words would I use? Because we may go back into old looping behaviors and and old sort of our nitpicky, judgy part of ourself that uses words and sentences and ways that we say things that actually trigger them for their pain. And then you have to remember that that's actually a boundary that they're setting of what they're asking for. And this is where it gets complicated, right, because you're not responsible for their recovery. You're not responsible for their recovery. It's their job to do their recovery. It's not your job to do their recovery. It's their job to do their recovery. It's not your job to do their recovery. It's their job to do their recovery and it's your job to do your recovery. So if somebody actually says, yeah, I need you to hold me accountable and I need you to, you know, make sure all these things are in play and and remind me when there's meetings. And yeah, I do, I want to blow into the thing so that I can prove to you, so I can prove to myself and then you're in it with them. You're actually going to lose yourself. You're going to fall back into your old codependent people. Pleaser, take care of them, make sure they're doing everything right self, and that's not healthy. It's not healthy Because, ultimately, we are each responsible for our own well-being, our own recovery, our own mental health, but we can be alongside each other. We can be cheerleaders for each other. We don't need to hold people accountable in shame. We really need to give people grace for how hard it is and then be their best cheerleaders when things are going well for them and say you're doing a great job and give them space to be able to talk about what's happening with them underneath.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 21:37

On the bonus podcast, I'm going to air an episode with an interview with Audrey Hope, and she has been in the spiritual world for a long time and now brings spiritual healing into treatment center. She she works in Malibu, california, and she very straight out said if you're with somebody who does not want to do whatever it takes to get well, to do whatever it takes to get well, they're not going to get well. You can't make them get well, and she was no question about it. I think that each of us has to look at our situations with the most compassion and grace and tenderness for the person involved that you're with and that you're looking at, whether it's your spouse or your kids or your brother or your sister or your parents or your coworkers or whoever it is. We all in some way actually have addiction around us in some way and some of us have it really close and it's really hard and it's really painful.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 22:41

If you're with somebody who will do whatever it takes to get well, that amount of support and love looks different than somebody who actually doesn't want to do whatever it takes to get well and is still in the mire of their own suffering and they may have to be in it longer, they may have to hit a wall. This part of us that is holding them accountable may be keeping them from some sort of bottom that they need some sort of consequence, that they need some sort of peace where they really see the harm that they're creating from this choice that they're making as their own soul's experience. We see things in the way that we've been taught as good or bad the judgment, and in soul recovery we're learning that it's not about judgment of good or bad. It has a compassion. There are no wrong feelings. There are no wrong experiences. There's nothing in our shadow that is wrong with us. It's all information, it's all experience for us to learn how to be these souls and how to remember that we are one with spirit, to remember our wholeness, to remember that we can actually heal, we can actually choose within ourselves a different path.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 24:13

So the complexity of this question is there isn't any one answer to say yes, have him blow, don't have him blow. Yes, this is what accountability looks like. No, this is what control looks like it. This is what control looks like. It has so much more nuance than that. It's so much more subtle than that, because ultimately, we're powerless over the other person, but we're not powerless over ourself. We're not powerless to look deeply at our own feelings. We're not powerless to look at how it felt in our experience to have somebody that you love so much Make those kinds of choices and how it actually reminds us of situations that we were in in our own childhood, how we recognize how we played a part in it, how our control has been damaging in the relationship, how we look at our way of showing up, how we stop pointing the finger at them and we start looking at ourselves. When people truly decide that they will do whatever it takes to get well, the choices that they make for themselves do not need somebody else to hold them accountable for. They need somebody else to witness and recognize and see the growth that's happening, even if it's two steps forward, one step back.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 25:42

The sugar journey for myself is actually so much bigger than just sugar, because I've been having a journey with food and with my weight since I was a kid. If I really look at it, I don't have a food addiction in the way that some other people have a food addiction, but I had food insecurity when I was growing up. When I was a little girl, we always had food to eat, but not much. I was a poor hippie in New Mexico and my parents did the best that they could, but somewhere in it I have a not enough piece that I'm still working on. That is actually part of the foundation about my whole being, my whole codependency, my whole people-pleasing. It all ties together. So this is just one more stop on my healing journey, one more opportunity for me to see myself more fully, and so I don't need somebody putting the finger at me and saying, well, I hope you want to lose weight or I hope you want to make different choices. That doesn't help in any way. But if I have somebody who's saying, I love that you're working on that, that's really amazing that you're able to look underneath and see those deeper aspects of yourself. It's so cool that you're healing those parts of yourself.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 27:00

Do you want to talk about it? I'd love to help us figure out a different way to eat. I'm perfectly happy not having sugar. We can find a way to not have. Lemonade was like the only thing to have in sodas. When you don't drink alcohol, at a festival that we went to this weekend, we drink water together. Let me get you a water, honey. There are ways to show up that are powerful, that you have strength.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 27:26

I'm going to close up here and then I'm going to record for the Friday bonus podcast and see what more comes out of this, because I think that I want to dig into this part of us that can use the steps in soul recovery when we're really looking and we think this is about them and holding them accountable when we're really looking at how we can deeply heal and trust ourselves. We can learn more about ourselves, we can lean more into our authentic selves, we can let go of those old limiting beliefs and patterns that we don't even know in our subconscious. And I want to give you more on the how to's, and so I am hoping that this format of being able to break it into two for some of these episodes will give you more information. And then, on that bonus podcast, we're doing a lot of Al-Anon through the eyes of soul recovery, a lot of really great episodes that are on reading right out of books and Alan on and then talking about them, how you can use your soul recovery to use those. I've got great interviews. I'm lessening the interviews so that I can have more really profound interviews that will really touch you, and then I'm also still talking a little bit more about spirituality and some of the things that have really affected me.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 28:50

I want that bonus podcast to really really solidify your soul recovery journey where you take it a little bit deeper. So I'm going to end here and then I'll move on. On Friday We'll pick you can pick it up and we're going to get this next deep dive on this particular topic. But I'm going to close in case you don't listen to that and just say you have so much more within yourself that you know the intuition that you know, because, in a way, if you're questioning, saying, is this a good idea to do this, you're actually standing in your awakeness that says, ah, this might be control, and that's incredible If you really think about the awareness that that is. That is movement forward in your soul, recovery. That means that you are waking up and being able to see things from a new perception.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 29:43

Thank you so much for being part of this amazing community. Thank you for supporting me in all the ways that you do, by either subscribing on the bonus podcast, by being a coaching client, by coming to a retreat. There's even donations that you can make if you just want to support the podcast. I am so honored and grateful and I want to just give you one more little hint. That is, there is a 50% off code for the modules on the website to work the steps on your own. 50% off every module that I'm going to leave up in the show notes because I want you to do these steps and if you can't do them personally with me, I hope that you'll do the modules and almost done with getting step five up. So I've got one, two, three, four available and ready to go. You have 90 days to work that step. You can run right through it, you can take your time on it, you can come back and revisit it. These steps are so powerful and just truly stepping into what you know already. But you're remembering comes from doing this deep work and it means so much to me that you're here doing this work together, because together we can do the work that will recover your soul. Until next time, namaste, thank you for listening and I hope that that helps support your soul recovery process.

Rev Rachel Harrison: 31:07

Just a reminder that every Friday is the Recover your Soul bonus podcast. This podcast is for Patreon members and Apple podcast subscribers, and not only do you get an incredible interview or book study that comes with being part of that community, but your subscribing helps support this podcast and the Recover your Soul community. If you want to listen to those bonus episodes but can't subscribe right now, do know that you can be a free Patreon member and have access for limited time to new episodes. Visit the website RecoverYourSoulnet or check out the show links below for coupons and information for upcoming events. I thank you for sharing this podcast with your friends and family. I thank you for giving it five stars, and the reviews that are left bring tears to my eyes. I am honored to be part of your life. Together we can do the work that will recover your soul.