Michael Mirdad | Addiction, Spiritual Recovery, and Healing the Void Within

While I usually reserve guest interviews for the Recover Your Soul Bonus Podcast, today's conversation is one I felt called to bring to all of you here on the main show.

I'm honored to welcome Michael Mirdad, a Spiritual Teacher, Healer, Mystic, and Best-Selling Author. Michael has spent more than four decades helping people heal, awaken, and deepen their connection to God, blending wisdom from Christianity, Buddhism, A Course in Miracles, and recovery in a way that is both profound and deeply practical.

In this conversation, he shares a powerful perspective on addiction, recovery, and healing, reminding us that beneath many of our struggles is a longing to reconnect with our true nature and remember the wholeness that has always existed within us.

Together we explore addiction as a spiritual issue rather than a moral failing, the relationship between recovery and awakening, the role of compassion and self-forgiveness, and how spiritual connection can help us heal the sense of separation that so many of us carry.

Whether you are in recovery yourself, love someone who struggles with addiction, or are simply walking a path of healing and spiritual growth, I believe you'll find wisdom, hope, and encouragement in this conversation.

Michael serves as the Spiritual Leader of the Global Center for Christ Consciousness in Sedona, Arizona, where he offers weekly teachings, workshops, retreats, and healing programs dedicated to spiritual awakening and personal transformation. He is the author of numerous best-selling books and the founder of the Daughters of Heaven Conference, a gathering devoted to healing, empowerment, and conscious living.

Michael Mirdad & The Global Center for Christ Consciousness: https://michaelmirdad.com/

Daughters of Heaven Conference: https://daughtersofheaven.com

The Heart of A Course in Miracles Workshop:
https://courses.michaelmirdad.com/courses/the-heart-of-a-course-in-miracles-2026

Weekly Sunday Service live on YouTube 11 am: @MichaelMirdad

Facebook: Michael Mirdad

The Recovery Your Soul Podcast courses and content is for educational purposes only and is not affiliated with or representative of any organization, recovery group, or religion. And reflect the personal experience and opinions of Rev Rachel Harrison and her guests. RYS claims no responsibility, any person or entity for any loss, liability, damage caused or alleged to be caused, direct or indirectly by the use application or interpretation of the information presented within. 

Transcript

Rev Rachel Harrison 0:00

What if addiction isn't actually the problem? What if addiction, codependency, people pleasing, overworking, controlling, numbing, all the ways we try to cope are actually symptoms of something much deeper? In today's conversation, spiritual teacher Michael Merdad shares a perspective that I loved. He believes that what we're really trying to recover isn't from alcohol, drugs, relationships, or any particular behavior. We're trying to recover from the feeling that we've somehow

Addiction As A Symptom

Rev Rachel Harrison 0:28

become disconnected from our true nature, from God and from our wholeness. And then he distilled decades of his spiritual teaching and everything that he knows down to three simple steps. Connect more with God. Let that change you and bring that change to others. This is a beautiful and powerful conversation about addiction, recovery, spirituality, compassion, and remembering who you really are. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to the Recover Your Soul podcast and community, a spiritual path to a happy and healthy life. My name is Reverend Rachel Harrison. I started Recover Your Soul after having profound changes in my life from my recovery of alcoholism, codependency, people pleasing, and control addiction. I was guided to share the tools and principles of spirituality and the recover your soul process to help others transform their lives as mine was transformed. For us to overcome external circumstances, we need to turn the attention to ourselves, focusing on our interchange and healing. Positive results in our lives will follow. Welcome to Recover Your Soul. I'm Rev Rachel, and I'm so grateful to be here today with Michael Merdad, who is the spiritual leader of Center of Christ Consciousness in Sedona. He's an author, he's an amazing spiritual teacher. He has been doing this for a long time, and he is somebody that I listen to very regularly and attended his conference, Daughters of Heaven, last year, and was profoundly moved by that. And I'm just honored to have him here speaking with us today about spirituality and addiction. So welcome, Michael. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Rev Rachel Harrison 2:08

I'm so excited for the conversation because when I came to Daughters of Heaven last year and just was so impressed with the community and the love that was in that experience, I was also really moved by how you weave addiction in with your talks. And a lot of people are afraid to talk about addiction. And I'm just excited to have you come in and share your wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Well, thank you. I'm very grateful that you wrote your book and that anybody, that anybody in this world takes the stigma off addiction. We know what it is, and we know the people struggle and so forth. But the imagery of the smoker, the you know, smoking addict, the drinker, the drug addict, this and that, sex addict, all these have like such a dark stigma to them, which is kind of ironic because the people that look at an addict and think, oh, there's that thing, there's that image, is also an addict, and they just don't know it. Everybody on earth is an addict of some kind. No, we may not be acting out exactly the same way, but the number one addiction, not everybody is a smoker, not everybody is a drinker, but everybody has codependent issues. And the psych field and counselors are are now even trying to steer clear of that conversation, as though, you know, because these days labels are becoming so charged. So people are actually getting twisted about calling people codependent, but but there is a codependency. So, long story short, from my viewpoint, as what I teach, is that once upon a time we were all part of God. And whether you come from this religion or that, forget the details and the arguments about dogma. Just get the general theme, because we all agree on that, whether we know it or not. We do all agree if we just listen to each other that in the beginning we're part of God or being created in God's image and all that. So there's evidence of that in all these holy books. We start off, but there seems to have been something that happened. Whether you call it the fall in Eden, the fall from the garden, the fall from heaven, something seems to have happened where we seemingly separated from that bliss, that heaven. Well, when that happens, it creates a void inside because we're we're missing something now. We were whole, one, now we're missing something. The law, the Lord thy God is one, and all of a sudden the Lord thy God is in one because we seemingly separated. And so what that does is it it creates in us a void, and then we can even label that void like, my God, what have I done? I must be something wrong with me. That void is the origins of addiction because I'm now going to feel I've done something wrong. I separated from God. Now God's going, hey, listen, just forgive yourselves and go become a gnome. It's easy. But we don't. Instead, we have to overthink judgments, and we still do it to this day. But we separated, we fill this void. Now I either need to stimulate or sedate related to that void. I need to stimulate and go, I'm not such a bad person. Look at me. I'm, you know, we come to this world that we achieve and all that, or we are so bummed about what we've done, we have to make it go away. And we we either stimulate to come up or we sedate to go down. And to calm down, you know, our judgments and on ourselves and the angst we feel. So everything's kind of like dealing with the anxiety of separation. So if you look at this, it doesn't matter which route you went, it doesn't matter because you're all just trying to cope. Now, standing at the end of the story and accusing each other of which addiction is worse doesn't make any sense. Because spiritually, it's a thinking problem, not a drinking problem. It's a c it's an issue in our consciousness, not in our behaviors. The behaviors are just symptomatic. And so we seems we seem to have separated and then try to fill that void, try to deal with that, and it just doesn't work forever. So in Buddhism, you would say there's an interpretation of this, and that is people have forgotten who they are. So the first rule is it starts with the word ignorance, which means what? That you forgot who you are, which is the separation from God. So Buddhism has its angle of saying, well, there's this thing called ignorance, and then you're gonna feel like something's wrong, and you're gonna go out and try to fill it. If you find something to help you, it'll eventually go away, so you're gonna end up bummed again. If you don't find something to help your issue, you're gonna be automatically bummed. So Buddha's already telling you the same thing about the genesis of addiction and so on. It's there's a problem, a perceived problem, emptiness or something. Then you try to fix it. You either don't fix it, which is a drag, or you temporarily fix it, and the temporary eventually fades off, and you've got another problem, and then that's gonna end up in a bummer. So he's kind of saying nothing of this world can fix you. You can't truly recover without God as part of your program. Now, that's not to say that I'm shutting the door on people who don't want to include God in their program because they're addicted to hating God, they're addicted to their fear of God or whatever. It's still okay when when you have somebody in your

The Void Behind Compulsion

SPEAKER_01 7:30

life and they refuse to add God into the recovery program or you in your recovery program. You know, the first thing to do is listen to people. Like, I don't want God as part of my program. Just go, okay, I understand. Don't tell them that they can never recover if they don't do it your way. Don't shut the door on anything for anyone, if possible. Try to hear them and bridge with them so that there's always a way. There's always a way through, a way out, a way out of those feelings, a way out of that torment inside or whatever it is. Listen to people, bridge with people. So it's interesting, then I'm saying that Buddhism is saying the same thing as a recovery program, technically. And then a course in miracles, which I know you're into a bit, is saying the same thing. Separation. Then we felt fear of the separation, and everything else is coming from that original fear. One of the things that's the strangest is if you were to summarize 12-step program, a course in miracles, Buddhism, things of any kind of quality nature. I I look for how things connect rather than my thing's better than your thing. I look for how they connect. So whether it's Buddhism, whether it's Course in Miracles, whether it's recovery, and recovery is a form of a spiritual path, which I'll circle back to in a sec. But those three things, let's just use those three, all of each of these can be summarized in three steps. First, connect more with God. Second, let that change you. Third, bring that change to others. God, everything is about God's self and others. So underneath all those sutras, the wording might be different, but underneath all those workbook lessons of A Course of Miracles, first, connect more, more communion with God, connect more with God by whatever name. The Buddha mind or whatever you want to call it, connect more with divinity, more with God. Secondly, let that change you, let it assist you in any personal changes you're trying to. I don't care if it's diet, health, you know, fitness of some kind, recovery. Let the one, which is the divine and all-powerful, help you with the other, which is your personal word, and then bring that change to others, bring the program to others, bring that change to others. So then it's a very holistic experience. It's not just philosophical, it's personal, but it's also in service to others. That is absolutely perfect, honestly. If every person in those any of those studies or programs could remember the simplicity of the three, it would make everything else come together. Everything else would make so much more sense. Because now when I go to a program, a meeting, and they talk about the part of including God in your program, in your changes, uh, some people get all uptight about that. But it's it's how we present, tell people they have to believe in God or include God. And there, if there's a part of them that them that's going to rebel, it's gonna come up now. Not to mention that addicts don't appreciate being controlled. You know, I mean, that's all they they're they're addicts, they're they want to act out and do their thing. They don't want to be told, even if about God. So the concept of scared straight doesn't work. That was proven a long time ago that scared straight can work, but it's usually temporary. Because all you did was frighten somebody into doing something different. So telling them you cannot recover without God, and you better do this and you better do it our way. It it's just more of this world that causes people to want to be an addict of some kind. You have to sedate me to deal with you people, is kind of the way the mind is working on that. So it's kind of nice that these connections between these kinds of programs, because it simplifies things. Now, that said, there's this thing about the program that I would say people have to understand it's a spiritual program, but they don't realize it is. And if you said it was, there's people that would get all twisted about that, saying, Oh my God, you know, my religion says I'm not allowed to do the 12-step program now because it's a spiritual program. The 12-step program is a spiritual program, but human beings are so linear in the way they think. It's either my religion or none at all. And we have to understand, forget for a moment the names of any of these. If you think of it more from a right-brained, like the mythology, mythology is accurate, it's not fantasy, it's not fairy tales, that's different. Mythology is the ancient culture's version of history, but it's also an incredible way of approaching the understanding of life and how we got here. If you look in mythology, you could read a story, even in a fairy tale, uh, about a person who once upon a time, and this happened and this happened, they became somehow restrained, constrained, put in a tower, and you know, she there's a damsel in distress, you know. These are designed so that you could put your own name in and look at yourself and go, What about me? What who's this? The one in me that needs to rise up and find my way home, like finding recovery. That's the knight in shining armor, the one that got me into recovery. The damsel is the part of me that I allowed to get destroyed and has been bound into that castle in addiction of some kind for years and years. So every one of these can be sort of run parallel to or merged, fused with our own life, these fairy tales with our own life. Now, that said, it's interesting because that's where you can say the 12-step program on the other side, what day you you pass away, they don't actually ask you about which before you come forward, which religion were you? Because if it isn't the one we want, the one and only, we're just gonna pull a trap door, and you're either gonna drop into hell or into reincarnation, depending on what you will believe it, and you're gone. So it doesn't look real promising, it doesn't work that way. What they say is, how did you do? They don't say which religion, how did you do? So, and it's it's a theme. That's the important part here. It's a theme. You became the hero's journey. You did you survive? Did you come out? You were crucified by this world. Crucifixion is not just one person 2,000 years ago. Crucifixion addictions crucify you, hatred crucifies you. Being ripped off is a crucifixion, being lied to, being cheated on, these are all crucifixions. They don't on the other side, they don't go with a pen, you know. Give us the names of everybody that that hurt you. We're because we're going after them. Some, you know, angelic hits hitman squad or whatever. What they do is they say, we know that it was rough and you were dealing with a certain thing, let's say child abuse, and we know that that led to addiction. Now, what we want to know is how did you do heroes journey? How did you do in the end? If you say, I would have done better, but all the terrible people in my life, they say, Well, we're gonna have to reassign you to deal with those kinds of people again, or you say, I got it. That all of these things, my addictions were my wounds acting out, which is why you have to do inventory. And I have to tell you, man, I have met more people on the spiritual path in recovery that were authentic than in most religions. This is kind of sacrilegious to some people, and that's not a hit on you know, a slam on people in religion. It's just because it demands that you look at yourself. I can go to just about any religion, even well, yeah, I can go do confession in one religion. They never say, and let's look at why that was, and what do you, you know, what are you doing about it? No, they just go tell us, and we'll give you a blessing and you're gone.

Three Steps For Spiritual Recovery

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Very bypassing kind of. Not that the prayer isn't helpful, just saying it's a form of I don't have to look at myself. This this path, this spiritual path, is one, just like Buddhism is a valid spiritual path, of course, in miracles is a form of a spiritual path. Not that you have to belong to that book. And so is recovery, so is a program, 12-step program. Now, if you get fixed onto I'm in the 12-step program, and and it's about alcohol only, it's better than nothing. But when you sit back and realize I'm in recovery, that program is technically not just saying, let's fix the alcoholism and leave all the other problems. By looking at yourself, you're starting to realize I'm an addict, not an alcoholic, just an alcoholic. I'm I'm an addict. I have addictive tendencies. Like what? And by the way, remember, so does everybody. Stop making yourself worse than anybody else and don't let anybody else do it. Oh, it's make it more like, oh yeah, you know, that's me. Yep. I've got this tendency to try to avoid my issues. Bypassing is an addiction. I've got to, I can't live if living is without somebody. I gotta have somebody in my life. Codependence. And you should be able to say that to people. Hey, listen, I can't promise to give you a perfect person, but I can promise you that I have a perfect commitment to myself, to my path. That's you know, so it's a play on words, but my point is you can bet that when we have issues, I go here first rather than blame you. But also, I don't fall in love with you. I share love. It's a different, it's a more mature state of mind. And there are more people working on maturing psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually and recovery than in most religions, because most religions you go and you follow just simply a dogma or you follow a ritual, depending on the group, and you leave. You're not asked to be different. You know, at our center, the Global Center for Christ Consciousness, I go up there on a Sunday and I lead a sacred service. But I ask, what do you want me to talk about? And then they give me the and it just all starts pouring out. But when we're done, I say, What did you get out of this today? And I do that to get them to own. In the 12-star program, you're not allowed to just bypass, but religions don't do a hero's story because they're not, and I'm not dissing religions, they have a place. Religions are great to teach you the foundation of the history of that religion, and to some degree, the teachings of the person behind that religion, whether it's this teacher, that teacher, that prophet, whatever. If I were summarizing what I'm conveying here to folks watching, listen, I would hope that they start with the first thing I heard this guy say is don't over-emphasize that you're flawed. You have an addiction, and everybody does to some degree or another. That's the way you should also say it to others, not brushing it off. Oh, yeah, whatever, everybody's got it. No, I mean, I hear you. I'm sorry for your struggle, and we all have our own version so that they feel normalized, not not patronized, not but but a certain amount of it's okay that you've made this mistake in your life. That's what I'm referring to. Then to realize this recovery program is a spiritual path. So when people say, So I'm glad you're in recovery, but you need to go to my church, just remember, I go to church, it's right here. Not that you can't also go to a church. I'm saying this one worship with God is in this temple. If you don't have it in the altar in your heart, if you don't have this temple and know what it is, that this is the temple of God, and go to the altar in your own heart. It doesn't matter how many buildings you go to, I don't care what religion, what tradition, I don't care if it's a sacred grove of people in a circle, I don't care if they're gathering on the red rocks in Sedona, it means absolutely nothing. It's absolutely worthless if you don't know how to connect with this altar. When you go to gather someplace, wherever it is, a church, you should be able to add. When you have a partnership, you if you can't bring something to it, something's a little bit wrong here. Bring your brilliance, bring your tenacity, bring your strength, bring your creativity, your spontaneity, but also bring your vulnerability and your your fears about where you you don't have it quite right yet. And talk about it. You know, be able to look at a partner in the eye and look at fellow spiritual people and look at 12 steppers and be able to say, oh my God, I this week, oh my God, you know that thing I didn't have, I fell prey to it again. And be able to talk about it lightly. If you over-emphasize that you're a sinner, then and so it is. That's how you'll live, that's how people will see you, that's how that's the limiting consciousness you'll put on yourself. So, all that said, seeing also that a 12-step program is a spiritual path, and not to understate that to let it be, man. It's it's so beautiful. And realize, and you can combine that, just like I can combine reading A Course in Miracles and still go to a Baptist church if I want. Doesn't matter. The Course is this material that I believe in, it's in a text. There's no, you go to study groups, but there's no church of A Course in Miracles. It's not meant to be that. It's meant to be spiritual psychology. But of all the religions in the world and throughout history, Buddhism is probably the closest thing to spiritual psychology, which means then Buddhism is very similar to A Course in Miracles and vice versa. It's kind of cool if you think about it. All that said, there's a point of not believing, not practicing, and being addicted and doing all these, you know, human mistakes. Then you step up a bit and you go, you know, I'm starting to find God, recovery, improving our lives. That's the next natural step. Very, very beautiful, very essential. Probably the hardest step of all of them. It's easy to party, to change your life and step up and own stuff and look at yourself. That's that's the most challenging. So if you're not succeeding completely, remind yourself. But that's because it's the most challenging piece. You know, give yourself some some credit and and some patience. That, but I've already fallen off the wagon three times, you know, and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Look at the life of Moses, look at Job, use other examples, go and read, watch videos of your mentors being interviewed. And you how show me how many do you how many of them say, tried it once, it was perfected, and everything was blissful afterwards. It doesn't happen. That way, so don't overly punish yourself for if it takes you two, three days, and and/or whenever you slip. You could be clean and sober for 50 years and slip. All it is is slipping. Get back on. That's all. Just get back. Brush yourself off, get back on. So I I find this to be just so beautiful. But we go from acting out to recovery. Recovery from the world. It's not from alcohol, it's from the world. It's recovery from separation. It's you see, it's it's recovery from planet Earth. If it wasn't this addiction, it'd be that one because we're suffering. You know, life is suffering, says Wheeler. But it means this world is not is not what you think it is. It's just a hologram. It is what we make of it. Therefore, don't try to get it to fix you. Life is suffering, means this world offers you nothing. And we can get into all the deep metaphysics of that because it's a hologram, etc. But this world offers you nothing. And the the the void that you're trying to numb or stimulate isn't actually there. It's your own guilt for having lost sight of who you really are. So even that, trying to fix that means you're on a journey without distance to a place you never left. No, we think we did, so we have work to do. But remember, you can't separate the way you think you can. We fell from heaven, but God doesn't see it that way. Put another way, on one hand, it looks like we've separated, became empty, and drugs and alcohol, sex addiction, all the things we might have done in our life. At the end of the day, God is never disconnected from us and is here in every cell. And what we name that, it's a judgmental God that's going to just kick your butt if ever you show your base on judgment day, whatever that means to you. You're you're up creek. I don't care if you have to reincarnate or if you go to hell, it's not good. None of it's good because you don't go home. So there's a problem. You can't go home because you know mom and dad in heaven are really mad at us, so we better run away. And that's what we did in our lives. So the great news is that you can't really cause God to lose faith in you. You can think you lose faith in God, but God can't lose faith in you. So there's this love that's there, and it's always been there. Now, some of viewers will will hear this with their head and go, oh, that's interesting. Others, it's going to be this wave of oh my god, and tears and feelings. And the more you stay out of the feeling of it, the more you're hiding and you're trying to intellectualize and guard yourself. So see that and own it. But those who there's a there's a wave of wow, wait a second. So I am in the program and I am working on myself, but not to eventually earn God's favor. God actually still has this perfect love for me. I'm actually getting over myself, I'm actually forgiving myself and others that seem to have caused and added to my harms. That's what's really happening. And and I'm getting it. Wow, good job. I'm getting it. And I need to stay with us. Whether I add church and books and meditations and healing retreats, and it's all beautiful because it's all just simply pieces of a puzzle that I'm putting together to help me learn about myself, whether it's a program or a retreat, it's all these things are helping me learn about myself. But my journey home is made much shorter if I can not just try to work on myself and perfect myself. Because now you have a 12-step program of perfectionism you're gonna need. So if I try to fix myself, that's okay. I well intended, but it implies that I'm already flawed, which is how we originally got into this mess. So it helps if we can say, yes, I'm working on myself. But in on one level, I'm working on myself, I'm reading my Course in Miracles or whatever it is, but in the back of my mind, I'm allowing a statement to be that I'm already home, that I'm already one with God. I just forgot. So allowing on a higher level that you're already there, you're already okay. It's not just a hopefulness, it's not an affirmation, it's the truth that part of us needs to know I'm already there. It allows the learning curve to shorten and it allows the efforts to lighten up a little bit. In other words, I'm saying to a degree, you cannot fix yourself, which is why the program's saying you can't do this on your own. You you can't, and it's arrogant to try, to think you can't. It's understandable because this is the human, you know, assumptions and and and narcissism of humans to think we'll fix it. If we're gonna fix it, it's been millions of years, we haven't fixed it. So you might as well just go, okay, maybe, maybe I don't have all the answers about how to fix myself, but I will call upon a power that does. And that concludes that piece

Recovery Beyond Religion Labels

SPEAKER_01 27:10

because those who do the I don't want to have to include God in it, you don't have to think of it as the same God that your religion pounded into you. I understand your fears of angry at me, God, because there's so much people want for years, for for thousands of years, people thought religion was the representation of God. So if the religions abused you, which many of them did, it meant God abused you. So now you don't like God. Okay. But God had nothing to do with any of that. There is this never-ending love that God is and also downloads into my being. Every second, every moment it's there's this love. And I don't remember that frequency. How do I dial into that? What channel was that on? Because to dial that in, it comes communion, prayer, meditation. It comes in moments of practicing forgiveness, but also a knowingness that it even exists. And then you can kind of unwind, like you do in cranial sacral work or certain kinds of body work. You just unwind and just quiet and into that communion, just allow the presence of God. Your mantra doesn't mean to need to be complicated Sanskrit. Your mantra can just be the presence of God, the presence of God, and just open up to it and let that presence pour in, descend upon you like Jesus in the form of a dove, the scriptures tell us. Let the Holy Spirit pour into you. And the name, call it the Holy Spirit. I call it the Divine Mother because religions used to call it the Divine Mother a thousand and two thousand years ago. They started changing it to He, the Holy Spirit. So there's the Father God somewhere out there, and then there's the Holy Spirit, which is a he, and then there's their son, Jesus only. And it's not like that at all. All the original teachings were there's like a father and mother aspect of God, which you can't really put the gender on and separate them. But for our amusement, there's a father aspect and a mother aspect. The father aspect tends to heaven, you know, takes care of heaven. The mother aspect became matter. Mother and matter are the same. So the mother became the material world, and so she's the womb of the universe, the mother aspect of God, which means God's everywhere because she's the universe. And the mother's saying, Okay, children, now that now that you judged yourselves as naughty and you left heaven, I'm here with you to take care of you. Like coming to school with us in a way. And I'm here to take care of you. I'm gonna be your school teachers, I'm gonna be the joint you want to smoke. I am matter, but I'm not like shaming you for each thing. What I'm doing is mirroring it to you. Hi, this is your mother today. I'm gonna manifest addiction for you to show your thoughts because everything you feel about yourself is being mirrored outside. So the mother is so infinitely loving and patient, she's saying, Honey, let me show you how you're doing today. How's that look? How's that feel? Oh, that's terrible. Then she says, Would you like to change it? No, I'll just have another, you know, and okay. She she's neutrally mirroring our lives to us. Now, if that's too much for somebody to listen to watch here, then fine, you can imagine she's just a universal intelligence watching you do these things, drink and whatever. But it gets more cosmic when you realize that even a war is matter. It's a material event, physical bodies and so forth. And all I'm saying is to go further philosophically, is the mother is actually all matter is the mother materializing to show us how we're doing inside, bidding us to make better choices. But if that's too much, that's fine. Then just imagine that she's still here, an intelligence watching us do these things ourselves. And it all comes down to are you ready to change it? And it's about hitting a certain, I'm at my pain tolerance and I've got to call out for help. When you've reached bottom, one calls it pain tolerance, one calls it hitting bottom, but everybody's got to find that place. When are you done trying to control everything? When are you done self-abusing? When are you done living with some shallow? You know, you've been drinking for 20 years, you've been sleeping with people for 19 of those years. So it gets it gets really strange. I do understand the things we do. They're abusive to others, neglectful to others sometimes, they're selfish, they're self-abusive for sure, and all these other things, but fixing them through guilt and shame makes it the worst of a religion. Seeing it with compassion, seeing it with the eyes of love, seeing it with even laughing at ourselves at how, oh my God, this is my way of coping, and it doesn't work. It becomes more like a spiritual psychology because you can go to a counselor and laugh a little bit about what he did this week. In religion, there's no room for laughter. You know, it's just like, oh, that's it, I'm going to help. So to each his own. But hopefully this helps fill in the pieces a little and connect some things.

Rev Rachel Harrison 32:19

There's so many amazing things in all of that. And I think what's so beautiful and powerful about this new way of seeing is taking off that lens that there's something wrong with anyone, no matter what they're experiencing. And that we are whole already, and yet we come here as souls to have this wild ride, I call it this wild ride of our souls heroes journey. And part of the work that I did was not only to allow myself to have that journey and to see myself with more compassion and more love and to go in. And when I did the nine steps, it originally was a more gentle version of the 12 steps, and then it morphed into its own thing that still has a flavor of the 12 steps because the 12 steps is an incredible spiritual journey that goes into looking at yourself with compassion. And then the other part that was so powerful was then recognizing that everybody around me is on their journey and the letting go of trying to control anyone else's journey and coming back to your wholeness, coming back to God, coming back to spirit, whatever you call it. And and that we get to do this. I mean, that was one of my continued journeys is to not dismiss the gift of the experience, even when there's parts of me that wish that I didn't have to go through it. It it is a gift to be able to be here to do this this human thing as a soul, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Yeah. And we get to, like you said, we get to, not have to. If you don't know the difference, then you're still the victim in the world. When you realize I get to go into recovery, I get to whatever it happens to be. I I have to go to work. No, you don't. Yes, I do. No, you don't, just don't go. Well, I how am I gonna get paid? Oh, then you mean you get to, right? You get to go to work and you get to get paid. And some people that want to be miserable cannot say those words because they're so stuck in in the lack mentality, the cup half empty, and I I have to do this or else, and I have to. It's not a healthy way to live because you're not thriving in your consciousness. I really have to quit drinking. You get to, because it is an awesome thing to let go of any particular addiction. But in this world, you could have no chemical types of addictions of any kind. And let's say uh that when you're stressed, you reach out to a reading, like a Vedas or a Bible. The compulsion to go and read is also known as an addiction. But there are healthier addictions. One can say that it's healthier to go to a gym when you feel compelled to eat more so than it is to always eat. You can say that. But at the same time, if you miss hearing the pain in the person, you're sort of not helping that much. It is a little better in the external appearances to reach for something inspirational to read instead of a drug. Yes, they're healthier addictions, but don't be so quick to call my stuff negative addictions and your compulsions to read the Bible to be all perfect. The fact that you still have to run for the book and read, and it helps you, that's great. But the fact that you still have to run for it, your day will not be good if you don't go and read an inspirational material piece of material. That's still about addiction because addiction is all about compulsion, and compulsion comes from something's wrong inside. I feel anxious, I better drug, I better drink, I better read. I'm still living from compulsion. Yeah, one looks healthier in the material sense, but that doesn't give them the right to judge the other as an evil of some kind. So if you really want to get down to it, stop targeting everybody because technically, you know, what we need is the recovery program from planet Earth. That's the one that would cover all addictions and bring us home. But any one of those is a door into the all program. So it's all okay. As long as you go from applying it personally, you know, there's the stage of watching others in recovery to getting it and finding some form of healthiness and recovery and practicing it yourself. That's perfect, that's great. But there's another step where we're applying it in everything, the principles in everything, not in the narrow, which you have to do for a little while. But people should understand that taking the program to others also means not just the tell them about it, because that's converting people. That's religion again, which is shows you how how easy it is for the 12-step program or anything to just slip right into the track of being a religion. But instead, it's more like I'm bringing the program to others by seeing that I can apply the program to everything. And that your whole being is changing. I mean, you you how you will become a master, you'll become awake, you'll become enlightened through the 12-step program. And I I should just add, because people do ask, oh Michael, I'm so glad you've made it through your life. And you know, what whatever your addictions, you know, to drinking, and I'm glad you I've never been in a 12-step program. Don't judge me either. You know, keep away from that. We can know things. There are lots of doctors delivering babies and they haven't had one, particularly the male doctors. Doesn't mean you don't know. You start to see the sameness. You will be tempted to be holier than thou if you're a person that's never done addictions or a person who's recovered and you're in recovery for so many years, you are now better than everyone else. Then you don't even understand recovery. It's you've done it, but it's not authentic completely. It's really, really kind of scary to some, but wonderful to realize what's the difference? If I didn't drink, what's the difference? We're all in this together. I remember um seeing a movie once, and a scene happened, and I remember that I saw the movie before, and the scene happened, and I thought to myself, um the movie sort of trails off. It's not as good the last five minutes. Now I'm watching it again, and I'm like, oh, this is a really funny movie. It's good, cool movie. Got to the last five minutes, and I turned the channel and I stopped. The same way you might say, I need a drink. See, it's the same. I stopped and I went. Why did I just turn the channel? Just like you should say, Why do I need a drink? Why did I just turn the channel? And it was because the last few minutes were too much for me. They were reminding me of some old hurts. So I was compelled. Now it looks like oh da da da, you know, like you just stop, man. You have to learn to have a relationship with yourself and say, God, why was I so quick to get the control and change? And I mean, I'm getting chills even talking about it right now. But how amazing this is, this moment you turn the craving for a drink or to turn the channel. It's all

Compassion After Slips And Cravings

SPEAKER_01 39:40

the same. And you stop and you say, Why? What's this about? And you find the vulnerability, the thing you had to drink away, the thing you had to numb or stimulate or change the channel. They're all the same. So I went, Oh my god. So I paused, and and actually, and I cried when I saw them, and I cried deeply because I allowed myself. It doesn't mean it was the most horrendous thing that ever happened. It's not the point. Stop evaluating, just allow if it's the right time place. And I mean, just poured and poured and poured tears and snot and memories of da da da. And that's cathartic and it's emptying the past, it's emptying the moment, the trauma that you know the cup. But always remember, please, to refill the cup. In recovery programs, being of service to others is partly your form of refilling of a cup. It's partly. But refill your cup. So what I did is I let all that go. Then I call in the presence of God, the peace, the love, the presence of God, fill up, and it now completely reprograms the memory, the event, the people, because everything's been released, given to God, everything's been replaced, and now instead of darkness, you have light. You don't have darkness that became nothing because the universe abores a vacuum. Every time you and I have cried out, spoken out, vomited out something, and then just left it flat, it comes back. Which is why Jesus says when you cast out demons, they're gonna wander the desert and come back because that's familiar territory. You can't just quit drinking. The craving is gonna come back because the addiction, the demon, is going to say, Well, we've looked around and we just decided to move back in. You know, so all of a sudden the addiction comes back in the same form or another, but it's still it comes back. You have to put up a no vacancy sign. And the no vacancy sign means God's here. If that works for you, come on in because addictions aren't gonna say, Yeah, let's move in with God. It's not gonna happen. They're not aligned. So you you have to refill, you have to fill up with something new so that the universe gets the message. This person is not one that you can mess with in that form anymore.

Rev Rachel Harrison 42:03

I love that you spoke to that because that's one of the things that in the steps that I created, or that they are the universal steps that I just downloaded, because you discover your patterns, your beliefs, you bring in God, you release the patterns, and then you open up to the new system. And I think a lot of spirituality has been like just pretend like there's nothing in the past and just go right up into you know, everything's great. You have to have that cathartic experience. You have to touch, you have to release, you have to be curious about it, you have to love it, you have to let it go, you have to forgive yourself. And in that, I love that description they just had about how it morphs, it changes, it changes the entire system so that there is no space. And in one of your talks recently, you said something um along the lines of you know, who we are today is so different than who we were before, right it almost doesn't even relate to who we were before. Because for me, I would never drink, not because I'm afraid of what drinking would do, but that it is not aligned with who I am in my heart today.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

And so it's it is it is no longer there, it's it's it's not there. Recovery, you go through the nail biting, you know, grinding into refraining from. But the goal is not to just to not drink, right? It's that's not even there anymore. You will get to that place, everybody will get to that place. And it's that's that's when it really connects because that that's when you know you're integrating the program, not just doing the program, you got it, and you realize it it just doesn't even call to me anymore. We're all in this together, and we have to succeed out and understand that that's when you become a vessel, a channel, a observance. To others, but a channel of God to be that. You mentioned the Daughters of Heaven conference. The Daughters of Heaven is something that sort of came to me where I said, all this religion stuff and all this and that and the other, it's all dandy, fine and dandy. But we also learned a term decades ago, several of us, many of us on this planet, which is called light workers, where we're we're trying to be better people, spiritual, not just religious, as they say in the program and elsewhere. You know, religion is for those who you know fear hell, and spirituality is for those who have been there. So it's like it's much more integrating when we get it right. So you become a light worker and you realize I want to be of service. By what religion? It doesn't matter. I'm just a light worker. So it's cool. But it's almost like a new wave of light workers called the daughters of heaven, which has nothing to do with gender. It means daughter, meaning pure soul. The daughter, the princess, the bride. It's all my soul. And she's here in all of us men and women. She is here, and it's the part of us that is the pure bride that wants to return and marry the bridegroom, Christ, or God. And so there's a very beautiful part in mythology about those kinds of stories. But the daughters of heaven are part of that. To realize, you know, I don't have to work, just work at addictions. I it's easier to do so with God because God helps remind you of your worthiness to not be in addict. It it washes you clean. Some people it's more profound, cathartic, you know, it's instantaneous than others. But really, most mostly it's a process. So, you know, if you say, Well, a friend of mine, it happened overnight, recovery, perfect. They're healed and all, and it's taking me weeks, months, years. Who cares? It's just the way you laid it out. It's fine. If you want it to be faster, then practice just integrating more quickly. But judging ourselves doesn't help. And on that note, one thing I tell folks is try to like let's say you have people that are dealing with recovery, different types in the program watching us right now. The one alcohol, this, that, you know, whatever, sex addictions. Remember to treat yourself the way you would someone you love. So sometimes just vicariously imagine you're giving advice to your 10-year-old about mommy, I I like my favorite cereal, but it always upsets my stomach. You're not going to say, well, by all means have more. You're going to say, honey, well, if it if it makes you sick, let's not do it. Tell that to yourself. If if one night stands end up making us feel empty and ashamed and sick, why do that? Imagine talking to your inner 16 or 18-year-old. Hi, sweetheart. I see that you're starting, you know, to date or whatever. What advice would you give them? Would you tell them really to date half the lunatics you've dated? I hope not. You know, you should be able to laugh at it and see through it. Oh my God. I can't think of one person I've ever dated that I would recommend to my kids. Then don't do it yourself. Use yourself as a barometer to know whether you're making healthy decisions or not. You know, we're we're healers, all of us, potential healers. And the healing is of what? What do you healing love and goodness? No, you're healing selfishness and trauma and misdirection and things like that in people. And it's a beautiful thing to have that call and to be able to say it's time for me to take the program to others. And uh, you know, I I I will say this this is kind of a weird thing to share, but I I've never felt compelled with lots of addictions, but I've you know, done the been here and they've made mistakes and so on. But it's interesting for me because the very opposite, having not really ever, I've never even drank coffee, but don't get the idea that I'm some kind of like food purist. I've never even gotten too involved with food. Food doesn't do it for me. Coffee I've never had, smoking, I've never done drinking, not I've never done any of these things. I've never felt compelled into any of these things. But I will say this for those of you that can relate, it's not easy to not have any of those because this world causes you an anxiety, a feeling inside that you don't use addictions to cope with it. And I gotta tell you, for myself, it's usually fine. But there are times in this world you can just feel an anxiety when you see so many people suffering, it's you start to feel it inside empathically. You start to feel this like oh, you know, but but but I I'm not gonna sedate it, I'm not gonna stimulate it, then what are you gonna do? You know, I'm not the type to just like go do a bunch of one-night stands or grab a drink or whatever. It so when you don't have addictions, you have a new problem, which is what are you gonna do to cope with this world? Well, that means if you're in the battleground, how could you know the bombs bursting and going up, bullets whizzing by your head, literally or figuratively, it causes angst inside. So not having much by way of addictions isn't easy to brag about because I'm telling you, it brings its own new host of issues, which is bullets going by people's hatred for each other. I would say prayer communion helps me, not just placates, I'm talking it actually locks you into peace, and that's your immunity to it, which is not perfectly done by me all the time. I'm just saying that's generally what I do. And the other thing is being of service. If I'm gonna be occupied, if I'm going to occupy myself and being of service, not compulsively, not codependently,

Refill The Cup Through Service

SPEAKER_01 49:55

not rescuer type, but I find that connecting with God and and being of service to others, even if it's prayers to people that are in need, it it sort of locks in the armor of the Lord. It locks in an immunity because I don't really want to use anything else, nothing else really appeals to me. Not like I'm running from these days. It's never appealed to me to drink, it's never appealed to me to be some food purist either, because that can be a form of an addiction for people. You know, if you're gonna have anything repetitively and consistently, it should be love. You know, let it be God and love, let that be your default program, let that be your go-to, prayer and surrender and being of service. And I like that, not just theoretical prayer communion, I mean boots on the ground and making a difference. Smile at people, share what you can. If all you've got is a smile, share it, Buddha says. You know, if all you've got is money, share the money, use things to help people find hope, honestly, or the way I often say it, if I were summarizing the service part or relationship with others, teach people that they have value. You know, teach people that they matter. And I don't mean just like stroke their ego, I mean in the heart, truly ask yourself each day when you smile at somebody, why are you doing that? Because it's my way of letting them know they have value. I smile because just seeing you, I was compelled to smile from across the room. Now, some of them are gonna think you're hitting them because this world is like that. It misinterprets things, but just do your best to live the Christ life, do your best to walk in the light of God and masterful, I call it. You tether yourself to God, and then you go in and you make a difference any way you can. And that's what that Daughters of Heaven conference is the book I wrote, the meetings we have, the Daughters of Heaven, which is a YouTube meeting we have every other Saturday. And people can also go and just look at the Facebook group, get into that. Uh, but there's a website for the conference, and I'm glad you went that you loved it, you know, and you gained from it. But it's a gathering of people that are sort of thinking, living the way we've just been talking about. Yeah, a lot of them are in recovery, but not all of them, but a lot are in recovery. But whether they are or not, what I noticed is this is a group of people that live a healthier life in mind, mind, body, and soul. When you work the program, it works. When you work any program, it'll do something for you. And these programs we're talking about are some of the more advanced things that we have available to us in this world.

Rev Rachel Harrison 52:42

We could talk for forever, of course, but it's the soul's journey of healing and awakening, and it includes challenge. And I think that we're in this place. What I loved about the Daughters of Heaven concept is to really embody it, not because you're trying to fix the other, but because your embodiment will affect others in ways that allow them to remember their wholeness within themselves and to come into their own light. And I and I think more and more of us are interested in that as being our path. And it allows us to be present with a world that is complicated and often with people in our lives who are going through their own addictions or their own issues, and to have compassion and love be the eyes in which we see. And that's, you know, that's what I hear in your message always. I hope that's what people hear in my message. I will have all the show notes, we'll have all of your contact information about how to watch you every Sunday. You're on YouTube with a beautiful talk and the daughters of heaven and and everything you have. And I have somebody who's in the community who just went to your live service in Sedona. So thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and your kindness. It's it's been an absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Thank you. I I wish everybody well. Yeah, I wish everybody well and you can share those links and so forth. And we have a Daughters of Heaven conference coming up at the end of September. People can join us there. You've been involved with the University of Metaphysics in Sedona. They're having their graduation just the week before. So a lot of people are coming to that and then staying for the conference, or vice versa, coming early for the events, the conference that the University of Metaphysics is having. It's a great, great center. They're just across the street from us. And at some point in June, it's the 28th, I have an afternoon workshop on a course in miracles where we summarize the main concepts of the course. So yeah, I we have activities, people can join in, watch, like, subscribe, and do all those cool things. But thank you so much for making the change you have made. And we're like, I mean that. Um, it's an inspiration to other people. And the fact you have partner or colleagues or anybody else as a support group, man, that's essential. It's so beautiful. But if anybody out there doesn't have that support group, start with any one person you can talk to. It could be a sponsor or whatever. You must feel some sort of alliance, some sort of ally, a support group. If you don't think you have one, there's counselors. I can't afford a counselor, a sponsor. There's always someone. And or just watch the programs such as this one, and you'll feel some amount of support. Let that be enough for today and let it lift you, and then you'll be able to manifest more and more healthy versions of a support system. So thank you.

Rev Rachel Harrison 55:43

I agree a hundred percent. Thank you so much, Michael. Thank you. Until next time, Namaste. If something that you just heard resonated with you, I want you to know there's a whole community waiting for you. The recovery soul process is a spiritual path to a happy and healthy life, and there's many ways to walk it together. Start with the free mini workbook at recoveryoursoul.net. It's a beautiful first step. You can join us for the free monthly support group on the first Monday of every month. And if you're ready to go deeper and work the nine steps, you can join the self-study collective or a soul circle or come to one of our in-person retreats or workshops. And if you want to work with me personally one-on-one, coaching is available. You can also find bonus episodes every Friday on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, and I'm on YouTube with new videos that are posted weekly. And grab your copy of the new Recover Your Soul Spiritual Memoir. It is a spiritual journey of healing from addiction, codependency, and people pleasing available on Amazon, and it's our journey of healing through this process. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and all of it is recover your soul. Just remember you're not alone in this. Together, we can do the work that will recover your soul.