Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Dr. Darren Williams, professor of astronomy and astrophysics, and Dr. Mike Rutter, associate professor of statistics, about the April 8 total solar eclipse, which will be visible in totality in Erie.
Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Dr. Darren Williams, professor of astronomy and astrophysics, and Dr. Mike Rutter, associate professor of statistics, about the April 8 total solar eclipse, which will be visible in totality in Erie.
I'm Dr. Ralph Ford, Chancellor of Penn State Behrend and you are listening to Behrend Talks. I have two guests today. My guests are Dr. Darren Williams, Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics. And Dr. Mike Rutter, Associate Professor of statistics and I will add astrophysics enthusiast, because we're going to be talking about the solar eclipse today. And they've both joined me to talk about the solar eclipse that will happen on April 8, for those who have not been listening, they have not been watching the news. Everyone should have heard about it by now. And it should be visible in totality if the weather holds here in Erie that day. Anyways, welcome here, guys.
Dr. Darren Williams:Thank you.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Well, I'm going to run through your backgrounds. Just a little bit here. Darren is known to many because you hold the very popular open house nights and astronomy here on campus, where you give talks that are attended by very many, and it's a great complement to the engaging lectures that you have. You hold a Ph.D. in astronomy and astrophysics from Penn State University, a bachelor's degree in physics from the University of Pittsburgh, and an associate degree in physics and mathematics from Jamestown Community College. Your research is focused on the climates of small planets, small planets, and spin orbital dynamics of planets and moons among other topics. We could probably spend a whole discussion on that one. And Mike holds a Ph.D. in fisheries and a master's in statistics from Michigan State University, a master's in applied mathematics from the University of Tulsa, and a bachelor's in applied mathematics from the University of Pittsburgh at Bradford. Your research is centered in statistics, predictive models and quantitative fishery models. Mike is also the Associate
Dr. Darren Williams:Right, so the moon 250,000 miles away, Director of the School of Science, and co chair of our new casts a long, narrow, dark shadow all the time into space. interdisciplinary science and business major. And we can talk And occasionally, very rarely, actually, it touches the earth. about that today as well, too. Anyways, welcome to the program. We're counting down to the April 8 total solar eclipse it is a And we just so happen to be right underneath the point that once in a lifetime event. Fill us in what's a solar you start it touches on April 8, and the event doesn't last all day, with the basics, what's a solar eclipse? What's this mean to be it'll it'll be a couple hours for us in Erie from start to in the path of totality? finish. But the middle of it is what everybody's waiting for where the moon covers completely the solar disk. And the afternoon sky will turn dark is night for three minutes and 40 seconds, three minutes and 40 seconds it will be 100% hotel and engineering. How far does that like go away. So if I drove 30 miles south of here, what I'd be 100% totality the shadow. For that day, it changes with different eclipses. But for that day, the shadow width is about 150 miles in diameter. And so you'd have to travel about 70 miles south of here to delete the shadow. So they won't see it in Pittsburgh. No, they won't. Okay, so it gets as dark as midnight. No, along the horizon, you're actually receiving some light from the regions of the atmosphere outside the shadow. So it won't be pitch black, like at midnight, but it'll be overhead will be the darkest right in the middle of the eclipse. I would compare it maybe to Twilight conditions, you'll it'll be dark enough to see stars. And that's my most exciting aspect of it. Because not only will the will be the seed the glowing the fluorescing atmosphere of the sun, called the corona, but away from the Sun will see familiar constellations and planets and the planets will all be lined up. So for the first time in my life, I'll be able to see the entire solar system arrayed before me in the middle of the afternoon. Wow. Well, you have telescopes set up. Yes, yes. Yeah. So we'll have we'll have a series of filtered telescopes, mainly pointing at the sun but and so we'll be looking at the sun for for an hour before an hour afterward. And, and you can do it safely with a filter on on the outside of the telescope. But, you know, when the during the three minutes and 40 seconds, we'll be able to see stars and planets without glasses on her face. And without looking through the telescopes.
Dr. Mike Rutter:And the world around us. We'll think it's going to get dark street lights will come on. Animals will start to act like it's getting dark so they might move and leave them when they normally do and then about four minutes later they'll discover that oh wait. The sun is coming back out. So it'll be an interesting afternoon in lots of ways.
Dr. Ralph Ford:I remember we had a partial eclipse here within the last decade, right?
Dr. Mike Rutter:2017
Dr. Ralph Ford:2017. And I remember the crickets started chirping us. Yeah. What other it'll get cooler? Yeah, Yeah,
Dr. Darren Williams:Yeah, 10 degrees roughly.
Dr. Ralph Ford:About 10 degrees. Okay.
Dr. Darren Williams:And everyone will be gasping it the view. We're hoping that it is clear that day. In April in Erie, the forecast could range from Blizzard conditions to a rain storm to an 80 degree bright sunny day.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So let's assume the worst case assume hopefully, we're going to get the best weather. But even if it were bad weather, right, we'd still really you're going to feel that you won't see the
Dr. Mike Rutter:Sure
Dr. Ralph Ford:the sky as well. But you're going to definitely know something's going on.
Dr. Darren Williams:Yeah, absolutely. I think the street lights will come on, it will get dark.
Dr. Mike Rutter:The worst case scenario is like a storm in which it becomes dark, because there's too many clouds in the sky. But even if it's just, you know, if it's just mostly cloudy, we'll still be able to see the effects of the eclipse, we just won't be able to see the actual moon going across the sun.
Unknown:So
Dr. Ralph Ford:So how rare is this?
Dr. Darren Williams:It's rare. So within every year, the moon's shadow touches the earth one to three times on average. For if you ask how what fraction of the planet does the shadow touch, it's less than, it's less than a 10th of a percent of the planet. So people are familiar with the moon during a lunar eclipse, that that tends to be most people's Eclipse experience. Because when the moon gets eclipsed half the planet can see it. So for now, our planet population is 8 billion. And so so with a with an eclipsed moon, 4 billion people at any one time can see it. Here, you have to multiply the population of the earth by point 1%. And that's the fraction of the population and so it's a very rare event for any one person. You have to either get lucky like we are in Erie and wait for that shadow to touch to come to us, or a lot of people, the Eclipse enthusiast the travelers, they fly they, they take voyages to place themselves.
Dr. Ralph Ford:I know some who've told me I'm coming to I'm coming to Erie. I've learned what's going on and
Dr. Mike Rutter:It's relatively easy to get to. For North Americans.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Yeah, so the next one if is if I'm correct 2144 So this is more rare than Halley's Comet.
Dr. Darren Williams:Although the one in 2144 Oh, yeah, that's the right that's that's solar that x total total solar and for Erie.
Dr. Ralph Ford:I think what Halley's Comet I guess I'm just using his reference every 76 years.
Dr. Darren Williams:So it's just this past year, for a few months ago, it turned around Halley's Comet. So it it is now officially approach heading toward is heading back. But it won't be here until 2061 or 2062. Well, maybe we'll get to see.
Dr. Mike Rutter:The next the next solar eclipse actually is going to be August 12. Or that's the next total solar eclipse is going to be August 12, 2026. But that's going to be in Iceland, Spain and Portugal. So in terms of a worldwide audience, that's gonna be the next time this is going to happen on earth, it just, we're not gonna be able to see that and
Dr. Ralph Ford:I'm talking about Erie won't get it
Dr. Mike Rutter:Right, right, right. They kind of do an idea of how rare event it is. And it has more to do with where you are on the earth, rather than frequency, because that's the thing that makes it.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Sure. So here comes the really hard question. How do you predict this with such accuracy that, you know, the next time for example, will be Erie, Pennsylvania? For Erie, Pennsylvania is 2144. How do we know that?
Dr. Mike Rutter:Lots and lots of math. I mean, it actually started out as...
Dr. Ralph Ford:You don't have to go through every bit
Dr. Darren Williams:Oh, no, it was a fluke.
Dr. Mike Rutter:No, I mean, it's actually started, I was more of a statistics problem, because ancient civilizations that were really good at taking notes of things happening, would start writing down when eclipses occurred. This was the Chinese and the Babylonians in the seventh, eighth century BCE, and they started noticing there was a pattern of when these eclipses would occur. So they were able to start predicting it just based upon Oh, approximately every 18 years, which is Dr. Williams is a Saros Cycle, correct?
Dr. Darren Williams:Yes.
Dr. Mike Rutter:That these were these eclipses would happen. So they would notice that the were occurring now doesn't guarantee it's going to occur at the same exact place. But they were able to start to figure out that these things happen on a cyclical basis. And so people started getting a good idea when it might happen, maybe not exactly where. It wasn't until the 1820s when a Prussian mathematician, Friedrich Bessel, create a set of equations that much better allowed us to predict exactly where and when eclipses would occur. And so from that point on, we've been able to predict it. And then obviously, with advances in computers, we've been able to take into account things like elevation and the actual the way that The moon looks and we're mountains are on the moon so we can predict exactly where the eclipse is going to be. So it's been the last couple of years, we've been able to predict it with a lot of accuracy.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Makes a lot of sense. We go back to those ancient civilizations. What did they think was going on? Did they understand the physics? Or did they have superstition around this? They did, obviously figuring this out. So what did it mean to that?
Dr. Darren Williams:Yeah, they they said it was a, it was a sign of, of impending doom, plague, disease, starvation, some climate change, warfare.
Dr. Mike Rutter:Maybe they're the gods are upset with a leader or something along those lines?
Dr. Darren Williams:Yeah. Because they didn't understand it. They couldn't predict it until just a few 100 years ago.
Dr. Mike Rutter:But I think the folks that
Dr. Darren Williams:Most people couldn't predict most there were a few, right, like Archimedes, for example.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Those that were scientifically inclined in those days for what science was, they would notice, hey, these things They were the scientists who put their life on the line, you are happening on regular basis. And, and I think that would be the start of well, maybe these aren't related to angry gods. This is actually something that's occurring in nature. know, by by going against the modern day, the belief at that time, and they were heretics. So, but we come forward to today, everyone's going to be celebrating. People are going to be coming to Erie, Pennsylvania. Do we have any estimates? What's going to happen? How many do we know how many people are coming to Erie to see this?
Dr. Mike Rutter:If the weather is good, the estimate is going to be 250,000 people coming to the Erie County area that day, so we would double in population? Yes, basically, the I-79 Corridor south of Pittsburgh, and then on to Washington, DC, if you look at it from a spatial setting, areas that closest and easiest place to get to so if that weather forecast is good, we're going to be the place to see it for those particular people. That's why they're estimating that number.
Dr. Darren Williams:For New York City, they'll just go north up the Hudson Valley, and they'll hit the path of totality near Plattsburgh or Burlington, Vermont. Sure. Or even Rochester Buffalo area, it's closer than us.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So all the hotels are sold out.
Dr. Mike Rutter:They're not sold out. The last time I talked to visit Erie, however, prices are incredibly high. So if you do want to book a spot, you better do it now before they get even higher.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So we're having a lot of events here on campus. Tell us what's happening on campus that day.
Dr. Darren Williams:So at high noon, I'll be speaking in the the Erie Hall gymnasium. I think 1,000 to 1,500 visiting high schoolers from from Pittsburgh is that the other areas outside
Dr. Ralph Ford:Now we have they have we've been getting phone of the path of totality. calls for the past year, about coming up and coming here to see it. So we'll be entertaining those high school students with that talk.
Dr. Darren Williams:Yes, right, right. So that'll occupy us into Wow. Will we be announcing that people will know this that they one and then from one to two, we'll all be getting getting ready getting our glasses ready and attending to the telescopes over by the soccer field next to the Junker center. And then by two o'clock, the moon starts to eat away at the edge of the sun,
all in preparation for the 3:18 total solar eclipse. And that's when you take your glasses off. So everybody's gonna have their glasses, but they can't forget, well, they'll figure it out. Because you can't see anything with your glasses on except for the sun. So during the eclipse when its totality, just after the last flicker of sunlight through the valleys and mountains on the edge of the moon, the last flicker, the glasses come off and then you're you're safe to go for three minutes and 40 seconds. can do that? Because I'm sure there's a lot of misunderstanding.
Dr. Mike Rutter:We will be we will be describing what's going on. We'll give an announcement saying it's safe to take off your glasses. It'll be telling you when it's safe to put your glasses or when it's important for you to put your glasses back on. And then yeah, we'll be walking everyone that.
Dr. Darren Williams:And the meteorologists from JET TV. Both of them are scheduled to be here all afternoon. And they somebody's going to have a microphone I'm supposed to do it play by play while the eclipse is taking place describing what what I'm seeing I hope I can still see maybe through the clouds if there are clouds or or just identify what can be seen in the sky.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Well, we all know or most people know you need glasses during this eclipse. Where do you get them?
Dr. Mike Rutter:Well, there's there's gonna be a lot of places where you can get them. I think the easiest way right now to get them is to come to a planetarium show at the Yahn planetarium. There's a free set of glasses with every paid admission. There are shows every Saturday until the Eclipse and there are some weeknight shows as well. Let's check the website to see what that schedule is. I know that a local business, Country Fair, is going to be selling glasses or giving away glasses free with a with a purchase. Starting I think near the about halfway through March. So that'll be a way for Erie areas residents to get glasses and there will be glasses for people coming up, VisitErie is going to be offering glasses at various rest stops getting closer to Erie, so there's gonna be lots of different ways you can get a hold of them. Honestly, the best way to see that list is to go to VisitErie. And they will have, they will have a large list of how you need glasses for free. If you go to the Behrend Eclipse website. There are instructions on how to purchase glasses for yourself and how to get them from a reputable place and make sure they meet all the qualifications for safety. So you can find that information on our website.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So in addition to the publicly available glasses, we've actually got quite a few available here on campus. And through the support of some of our generous donors, notably Greg Yahn, and John and Louise Mangas, Penn State Behrend is able to purchase 50,000 pairs of eclipse glasses that are being distributed widely. So tell us a bit about that.
Dr. Mike Rutter:Yeah, so through those generous donations, we're going to be able to distribute glasses to every K through 12 students in Erie, Crawford, and Warren County for the Eclipse. And thanks to actually some cooperation with Mercyhurst University, and Gannon University, and Penn West, we've gotten enough now that we're going to be able to do that for all the faculty and staff at those institutions as well. And if you're homeschooled children or private schools, and if you know, we have reached out to as many of those groups as you possibly can, but if you if you're not aware that you're gonna be able to get those glasses, contact the school of science office, here at Penn State Behrend, and we'll make sure we get glasses for those groups as well.
Dr. Ralph Ford:They call you up.
Dr. Mike Rutter:Yes, they can email me my email address is mike@psu.edu. And if you send me an email and give me some information, we'll reach back out to you and we will make sure you get those glasses. That's easy. mike@psu.edu. And the only Mike that works here, it's not true.
Dr. Ralph Ford:But it is super important. People have the glasses. So let's talk about the seriousness of that. And when and how you wear them. I know, you know, well, but.
Dr. Darren Williams:Well the nice thing is, when the slow parts of the eclipse are happening, just as the moon starts taking a piece of this of the sun's edge, it starts covering up a little bit of the sun, around two o'clock, that's relatively slow. And so very little happens between two and maximum Eclipse. And so that's time for if you're short on glasses, if not everyone has one, you can take yours off, don't look at the sun, but you can take yours off and share it with the person standing next to you easily enough. And so you can share your glasses for that hour before totality. And then when the rapid things happen, when the changes go more quickly, then everybody has their glasses off anyway, and you don't need them. You don't have to worry about where are they? Well, you do have to worry about who has the glasses at last call. So that after the three minutes and 40 seconds, they go back on.
Dr. Ralph Ford:And during the time before the totality and when you need the glasses, but it's only when I'm looking at the sun's if I'm just walking around, I don't need to do that, right?
Dr. Mike Rutter:No, it's just like normal, you can't, you don't want to look directly at the sun. That is totally true up until totality. So when it's covered 99%, you should not be looking directly at the sun. To view that either through glasses, or through some indirect method.
Dr. Ralph Ford:And the consequences are eye damage.
Dr. Darren Williams:Yeah, eye damage or blindness.
Dr. Mike Rutter:If you stare at it long enough, yes.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Don't take the chance
Dr. Mike Rutter:Don't take the chance. And you know,
Dr. Ralph Ford:if you have prescription glasses like us, you just put the others over.
Dr. Mike Rutter:Yep, that's all you need to do.
Dr. Darren Williams:We recommend we've been recommending that. Children under the age of five shouldn't even view the eclips with glasses. There are many indirect methods, you can look at them to like a pinhole cardboard box setup, or you can you can actually hold up a colander. And you can see that little pieces of the Sun will show up on the ground multiple times you can watch the eclips that way. But getting small children to keep the glasses on that's you know, there are other ways.
Dr. Ralph Ford:That's little too risky.
Dr. Mike Rutter:There's other ways they can do it very safely. So we highly encourage those students who are the youngest among us to watch via indirect methods.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So when this is all happening, I'll switch back to the physics of it. How fast is the moon moving,
Dr. Darren Williams:It's traveling around the Earth at about 2,000 miles per hour. But while it's doing that the earth is rotating underneath. And so Erie we don't feel it said my mom just a few days ago. She doesn't feel the Earth's rotation but but in Erie the velocities between 500 and 600 miles an hour around the center of the earth. And so as the as the shadow flies overhead at 2,000. Then we have this we're trying to keep up with it with our with rotation of the earth but we don't. And so the shadow just comes and goes and it it spends three minutes and 40 seconds in the Erie region before before leaving. It takes about an hour and a half to two once it touches the planet which happens somewhere just south of Mexico. It goes through Mexico and then into Texas and then through North America up through Indianapolis and Cleveland through Erie, Buffalo, Rochester and so on. And that whole timescale is is less than two hours, usually about an hour and a half from start, where it touches the planet to when it leaves the planet.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So the, by the way, someone recently asked me, I don't know why if I knew the circumference of the earth, and I do it and they were surprised why would somebody know such a numbers like 25,000 miles? Yeah, the center. So it's a pretty easy calculation that it takes 24. So the Earth at the center is about 1000 miles per hour. So it makes kind of sense. It's five or 600 miles here and Erie.
Dr. Mike Rutter:Congratulations.
Dr. Ralph Ford:I thought it was like a pretty pretty common knowledge actually, for people to know that I thought we all learned that in grade school. We did. But a lot. A lot of people forgot. Yeah, a lot of people forget anyways, I'm not bragging but I just found that was an interesting conversation. So it's easy to figure out how fast the earth is moving. Anyways, let's talk a little bit though about travel. It's a it's a mixed message. If you're living in Erie, you're telling people to stay home yet we want people to visit campus and enjoy the festivities. So what do you recommend people do on this day?
Dr. Mike Rutter:I've been a big proponent of if you live in Erie County, the best way to watch the eclips is from your own backyard, mainly because you will have food. And you'll have plenty of access to bathrooms, no reason to leave the comfort of your own home to watch it. There are going to be various places in Erie County, they're going to be having events. Some of the wineries along along the Lakeshore are going to have events and things like that, but but you can see the eclipse from everywhere. As long as you can look out southwest direction about 45 degrees above the horizon, you should be able to see the eclipse so there's no reason to brave the crowds to go watch it so you can get a great experience at home.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Good plan. A lot of places are closing down county government. We're not having classes here on campus. Most school districts in the Tri County area are not having or having remote classes that day as well. So there's going to be a lot of people staying at home waiting for this to occur. Great idea. And if they come to campus here, where do you recommend they they go to view you said
Dr. Darren Williams:The soccer field is where is where our telescopes will be, but but not everyone wants to cram into this soccer field. So I you know if they're if they're trying to get to campus, either for that for our talk or for a bathroom or possibly see through the telescopes in the soccer field, station road knowledge Parkway along the edges of the road would be the best staying close to i 90, or close to the Erie bay front. So you have to have plan A, B and C ready to go that day. If it is closed in the bay front may be the next best thing. 38th Street through Erie might be the next best thing for a good forecast. And for Sunny skies, it's going to be crowded that day.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Well all good advice, maybe get there early and get your spot right and be patient with traffic
Dr. Mike Rutter:the closer you are to the lake slightly longer totality will be so you know if need feels about where it starts. And that's only about a minute and 20 seconds. And then as you get closer and closer to the lake, the longer totality will be.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So astronomy open house will you be having some between here and the the Eclipse and focusing on the
Dr. Darren Williams:So there there are a bunch of talks about Eclipse when completed. the Eclipse and programs in the Planetarium but March 20, which I think is Tuesday. There's a public talk at the Glasgow Library downtown in Erie. And then you're giving the talk I'm giving the talk Jim and Jim Gavdos tag teaming. He's the planetarium director and he'll he'll be there as well. And then April 3 Is the astronomy open house here about the eclipses essentially the same talk about the history and the science of eclipses. But then that talk at noon on on April 8. And that'll be similar talk yet but but maybe there will be a sense of enthusiasm for the upcoming what we're going to see in the afternoon.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Well, for our listeners, I can say from firsthand experience, you are a great lecturer, people should should go and hear what you have to say they will they will be enthralled, right? I want to talk about a few other things. But before we do, is there anything else were missing about the eclips or that you would like people to know about that day?
Dr. Darren Williams:we already mentioned that. We can look at the sun safely through our glasses. And then during the three minutes and 40 seconds, we can take off our glasses and stare at the sky and look for stars and stuff like that. But the other thing that that happens during an eclipse, when the sun, when a lot of the sun, maybe 80 or 85% of it gets covered. So this will happen around 3 p.m. That day, if you just look down on the ground, you'll see strange images of the sun cast through the leaves through holes in the leaves. And I don't know how many leaves we'll have in April but but also holes in buildings. Anything that can act like a little pinhole, these images of the eclipse Sun will start to become more distinct, more well defined. Now these images are always made right now in the middle of the afternoon, it's a bright sunny day out there, there are images also being formed. But we don't see them primarily because there's light coming not only from the sun, but light coming from everywhere, and the buildings from everything scattering off the snow in the sky. But during an eclipse, the all of the light, most of the light now is concentrated coming from one direction. And that's where where the sunlight is, because it all works. And the pinhole, and those images become very distinct and noticeable when people think they're losing their mind. But but that is that there, there are 1000s or millions of pinhole images cast on the ground during an eclipse. And you should be able to see those probably within a half hour 20 minutes of totality.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Would it help to walk around with a small piece of cardboard and with a pin hole in there? Absolutely. I think sounds like a good idea to have have your own that day there as well. So let's talk a little bit about what you both do in your day jobs, which is your faculty members here and teach two different subjects. But let's start with you. First, Darren, talk about astronomy and the courses you teach and what your passion is.
Dr. Darren Williams:So So I'm an astronomer, and I teach every semester I teach large astronomy classes. It's a very popular topic and and so every semester students asked me, When is your next astronomy? I'd say well, it's next semester, because I always, I always teach one of those. And my, my professional mission is to, is to understand things to the point where I can explain anything simple enough so that anybody can understand it. I always use my mother as an example. If I can't explain it to my mom, what good is it? So I find ways it both in my mind, but also on using using computer programs and, and in research, I investigates the the physics of how planets move, and how satellites move around the planets and how they were formed. And then it is very complicated. I'm not gonna lie, but but it can be understood and explained simply and the Eclipse stuff that I'll be talking about for endlessly for the next 49 days until a eclipse day it is if you if you dig into it, you'll find a complexity which is, which is beyond most of us, including myself. But there are some simple things, some simple takeaway points, and I'm going to attempt to explain that to as many people as possible.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Good for you. Did you know you wanted to study astronomy when you were a young kid? Or was this something that you grew into? You knew?
Dr. Darren Williams:Yes, primarily after watching cosmos and Carl Sagan, you're here, and I want to do that. And but I didn't know what that was. I just knew it looked cool. And I wanted to know what he knew, and be able to explain how he did. And so he was really my inspiration.
Dr. Ralph Ford:And that's all you need is a spark because these things take lifetimes to develop expertise. And that's what people need young kids need to understand that. How about you, Mike? Statistics, math? What do you what do you do in your day job?
Dr. Mike Rutter:I teach statistics at a variety of levels. I teach here directory statistics to any General Major to biologists in the biostatistics class. I teach upper level statistics courses, and I teach a course in statistics for clinical psychology graduate program here at Behrend. So I saw lots of different bases with that so.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So widely applicable, and as they say, liars used statistics and what know what is that statement, but we have.
Dr. Mike Rutter:So many lies, damned lies and statistics. Yeah, anything along those lines? Yeah, I mean, I, you know, it's interesting. I loved physics when I was in high school. And as I said, I, I went to school, I was going to be an asset, I wanted to be an astrophysicist. And I ran on a math classes to take. And so I took a course in mathematical modeling in biology. And I learned that the thing I liked about physics was that I could model how stuff happened with math. And then I learned it wasn't just related to physics, I could do it in biology. And I went, wait, that's even more exciting to me. So I kind of knew that was going to be my direction. So learning how to model things and using data to tell stories and and that kind of got me to where I where I am today and why. Somewhere along the line. I changed majors from math to fisheries, because I wanted to tell stories about fish with data. And so that was that was a good path for me.
Dr. Ralph Ford:So why should somebody study statistics?
Dr. Mike Rutter:I think because especially as in these days, we are surrounded with numbers and data and and to be able to figure out what is important and what is not so important. And being able to make good decisions based on the data that you have, I think is an a really important skill. field it can be applicable to lots of different fields.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Yeah I think it's so important to, to understand and have a base understanding. Because if you think things are all deterministic and easy to follow, it really gives you a way of thinking about the world to that I think helps you understand the complexity of the world.
Dr. Mike Rutter:And one of the main things about statistics is being able to deal with uncertainty. And so being able to quantify uncertainty and being able to add handle it as another important part of statistics, I think is really important.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Well, you are also the chair or co-chair of a relatively new academic program here on campus known as interdisciplinary science and business. Can you talk about what that is?
Dr. Mike Rutter:Sure. So the ISB is what we call it for short, what we're doing is we are training students to work on the business side of a scientific company. It is a joint program with the School of Science in the Black School of Business, for example, we might train someone to help coordinate and run the chemistry labs of a chemical company. Or maybe they're doing technical sales for a pharmaceutical company. We want to combine that that science and business techniques and skills and so the way the degree program works is we have a set, of courses core courses, both science and business. And then the students that you take a specialty in both. So in science, it's either lab sciences, human health or quantitative sciences. And then they couple that with something in business from finance, supply chain, or technical sales and you So you combine one of each from both sides of business, and that's your kind of customize your degree and really focus on what they're interested in doing and how they might want to apply that to a scientific company.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Sounds like a great program. Anyone who really wants to understand science, but make sure that they can go out there into the business world sounds like a great fit.
Dr. Mike Rutter:Yes, it is. And it's it's modeled very closely after a very successful and undisciplined businessman engineering program, very similar structure, and we hope it is as successful as that program has been.
Dr. Ralph Ford:Well, gentlemen, it's been a real pleasure today. I have really enjoyed this discussion and we are all waiting, you know, April 8 is not all that far away before we know it'll be here and gone. So people should not miss it. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Appreciate your expertise today. My guests have been Dr. Darren Williams and Dr. Mike Rutter. Gentlemen, thank you. You have been listening to Behrend Talks. I am Chancellor Ralph Ford.