9.4 Mumbai Meri Jaan, But at What Cost? ft. Sidharth Bhatia

Is Mumbai still a city for everyone, or just for those who can afford it?

In this episode of Books & Beyond, Tara sits down with veteran journalist and author Sidharth Bhatia to discuss his latest book, Mumbai: A Million Islands. The book is not about the history of Marine Lines or the Gateway of India, but the thing that actually builds this city... PEOPLE!

Tara and Sidharth explore the bubonic plague of 1896, the transformation of Parel’s textile mills into high-end malls, and what it’s like for 28 families to build a rooftop community, hauling groceries, furniture, and even dead bodies up by rope. They discuss displacement of both slum and middle-class communities, the stories of activist Gauri Sawant and Kanthibai of Kamathipura, and how walking across the city reveals the hidden lives and stories that often go unnoticed.

Whether you’re a lifelong Mumbaikar or a curious outsider, this episode is a love letter and a critique that will make you question what it truly means to belong in Mumbai today.

Books and Documentaries mentioned in the episode:

1. Bachelor Girls by Shikha Makan (2016)
2. Manto: Selected Short Stories by Saadat Hasan Manto
3. Night in Bombay by Louis Bromfield

‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms. 

Transcript

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I wanted a hardcore Mumbai resident who has lived here for 40-50 years to read this book and say, wow, I did not know that. Hi everyone, welcome back to Books and Beyond. Now, if you are a Mumbiker and you still haven't followed us, I'm going to take that personally. Help a fellow Mumbiker out and follow us and read us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. So let's talk about today's episode because it's all about Mumbai, my favourite city in the world, city where I live, I've been brought up. And you know, we always love saying Mumbai meri jaan, but let's be honest, the city is very, very complicated. It's not an easy space to live for anyone. There's never enough space, even when there's space, it's wildly unaffordable. And that tension, right? Who gets to stay? Who gets pushed out? How people make a life is exactly what today's guest is going to be exploring. We are going to be exploring together. We are his new book, Mumbai, A Million Islands. So I'm joined here today by Siddharth Bhatia. He's a journalist, he's the author, he's a founder, editor of The Wire. And in his new book, he digs deep into the hidden histories of Mumbai, from rooftop communities to the 1896 bubonic plane, to the development of the textile mills of Parail, which are slowly being replaced by malls. And these are stories because I've grown up here for 35 years, you know, and these are stories that just made me pause more than once while reading, because this is something that I also think about all the time, you see it every day, the city is constantly changing. And what does that mean? So can't wait to dive into these topics. Welcome Siddharth, so good to have you here. Thank you very much for having me. So when I picked up this book, you know, I thought, okay, it'll be a history of Mumbai. And when I when I started reading this, I realised that this book again and again is about housing, who gets it, who loses it, who is constantly displaced, right? There are slums being torn down in the name of development. And that land becomes accessible only to wealthier communities. And this, as you point out in the book, is happening time and time again. It's not just a new phenomenon, but it's happened since the beginning of Mumbai. So for you as a journalist, you know, I know you're a Mumbiker too, why did housing appear as such a central concern for you? And why do you feel that, okay, this is the issue that, you know, I want to talk about when it comes to Mumbai more than anything else? So, yeah, Tara, that's a good question to start with, because it sets the tone for what I've done. I took six or seven years to finish this book before from start to publish. But I would say that my idea for this book goes back not just seven years, but decades. It's all around us. You're a citizen of this great city. And every now and then when I used to see skyscrapers come up, gated colonies come up, buildings being torn down and suddenly replaced, slums which were there till the other day disappearing, it started, it hit me some one day, many years ago, about seven or eight years ago, when a building next to where I was living came down, and in its place came up those blue corrugated sheets. And it was suddenly closed. And it struck me because that was not a particular, that was not a slum really. But that was a, after all, a middle class neighbourhood, and a middle class home to a lot of people. It suddenly struck me, while this is going on, where do these people go? And from there, this thread of thinking came about, I started wondering about even the middle class families, where do they go in the meantime, or forever? This is where their parents perhaps bought a house with their hard earned saving. Where do these people go? That was the fundamental question I began asking. And then I also realised, and this was really a revelation to me, that Bombay or Mumbai has always been in the throes of change. But the difference is that this change now is on steroids. It's a turbocharged change. People's homes are not only being removed, this is happening on a mega scale. For example, you may have read recently that many buildings are going to be brought down in Malabar Hill. It's happening from, let's say, Goregaon, Dahisar, to Malabar Hill, to Colaba. The moment a building is old, and the moment there are four buildings that are old, what they call cluster development, the developers have their eye on it. Before you know it, they've negotiated, and before you know, people's homes are being destroyed. Brought down, let's not say destroyed, because that might be considered a value judgement. And so I started looking into it, and then at some stage I proposed this idea, and I started researching it, and I said, let's go back a bit and bring it to the current situation. And that's when I started researching. Then I found that, you know, this was not a very unique thought, because NGOs in this city have always been looking at this. NGOs have worked with the displaced communities, and I contacted one or two of them, and then a new world opened up to me. There's one anecdote that I found really funny, and also sort of, you know, bittersweet, where you went to one of these developers, right, that are building these megaliths, and you and your wife went and you said, I want to buy it. And they showed you these, you know, beautiful sort of marble, a marble palace, right all over the city where you can't see any of the filth or the grime or people's lives. And it was priced at 67 crores, which is a crazy number. And, you know, as someone who's lived in Mumbai, I live in a very small kind of building, it's like a five story building. And very honestly, it's kind of a little going into the dilapidated stage. The building next to me was kind of like a little bit like a like, like a slum area, which has now been taken over and built into a huge high rise. And the building on the other side has also built into a huge high rise, it's just been demolished right now. And the developers are circling our building like vultures also looking to sort of, you know, take it down and build a huge thing. Luckily for us, all of the residents in the building kind of said no, because we were not sure where are we going to go? How long is this building going to take to come up? You know, what if it doesn't come up? Then what happens to us? Where will we live? How will we live? You know, this is again, like a home that's been in my family since my grandfather's time. So, you know, as a homemaker thing, these are my resident stories. Obviously, you know, there's certain privilege that I'm talking about that I come from. And that's my story. But I found it very interesting that you also said that there's this constant narrative of Bombay's upgrading. And I really liked the fact that you kind of, you know, said that that's not true. Because even the coastal road, only a few people can use it. What about the public transport? These pain points for citizens, you know, for most of the citizens in India, because there's a distinct tilt towards the rich, which we are seeing right in front of our eyes with the infrastructure. So I found that very, very interesting. So can you talk a little bit more also about how you want to debunk this idea that, yeah, Mumbai is upgrading? I'll touch upon that 67-68 crore apartment, which was coming up in Altamont Road, which has come up now. My wife and I got an invitation and they were very clear that it was a select invitation, not just a select invitation. They said that even if you have the money and if you are from the wrong side of the city, we will not invite you to live here. So, you know, they've already exclusivity built in, which is not purely based on money, but also on a perception of class. So we went there and they showed us a shell. It was just a shell. And they said this, from there we could see a fantastic aerial view of Altamont Road. At the end of it, they said it's 68 crores negotiable, but you'll have to put your own walls, your own marble, your own interior decoration. That will be another 5-6 crores. And then after that, registration, stamp duty, etc. So the property was coming to around 75 crores. And you see what is happening. The exclusivity is not only based on one factor, it's based on several factors. Are you the right kind of person? So can you imagine that notion filtering down to the level of, let us say, somebody living in a three, four-story old building and the building that is going to be demolished, their building is going to come up where they won't be welcome. Can you just think of that? And these are places where your grandfathers, two generations ago, were bought it and then lived, have lived there, build their lives, build their children's lives and their grandchildren's lives. There are so many stories attached to it. The neighbourhood is something that you understand. You know the family next door and this is going to come up like this. Now that happens. I'm not bemoaning that. This is not a book about nostalgia. Please understand. But I'm saying that when it filters down to the absolute basic level, an entire slum colony uprooted because they happen to be in a very prime area. The question to be asked is where do these people go? Where are they placed? How is their community destroyed? How is it that they had a sense of social security? I'll give you an example. I went to a colony, a new, you know, normal building, so-called normal building, where people had been shifted from where they've been living for the last 40 years, 45, 50 years or something, since the grandparents had come to Mumbai. And they said that we don't know who our neighbour is. And one person was a very perceptive person said to me, if there is a noise coming from the next apartment, and it's a noise that is troubling, we don't know who they are. While in the earlier system, a little schoolgirl walking from her home, her slum home, to the bus stop was monitored by 20 pairs of eyes, aunties, grandmothers, etc. to say, is she safe? That safety aspect disappears. Oh, there is somebody ill in your house. We'll go to the doctor. That aspect has disappeared. So, it's not the actual fact of the physicality. It's the notion of what community stands for. So, now communities have shifted. And the person who gets the apartment next door is somebody you don't know at all. These are the things that began to strike me. I'm saying Bombay has been about a lot of people supporting each other. Otherwise, it wouldn't have come up the way it has. We don't live like in Delhi in bungalows. We don't live in like other cities. We live because this city has always nurtured a sense of togetherness. And that is being destroyed. That was my main theme. I also wanted to make sure, I'll just add one more line. I also wanted to make sure that this was not a book about, you know, everyone feeling sorry for themselves. I'll talk about it later, or feeling victimised. It's not that. It's a book about change and the regret about that change. Yeah, absolutely. And you see that change makes me wonder what will happen sort of like to future Mumbikars because I also have grown up with the sense of community. I know everyone in my building, and they know me and we talk to each other. And that only percolates down, as you said, right to also the most basic levels. But coming to the stories, you know, in the book, I think, yes, the book is full of facts. You talk about, you know, I love the section on the plague, you talk about different areas. It's incredibly well researched. But I, for me, you know, personally really liked all of the stories of the people that you brought forward in the book. To me, that was the most visceral part. And, for example, there's a story about, you know, these 28 families living on rooftops, and these entire homes that are built above buildings, right? And it's a completely different community. And it's accessed through these metal staircases on the side, and your groceries, your furniture, your refrigerators, all of that is hauled up by rope. And even when someone dies, the body is brought down the same way. And I found that extremely fascinating. So can you tell me a little bit more about, you know, when you were researching this book, what are some of these amazing stories that sort of made you stop and think, wow, you know, only Mumbai? Well, I'm not going to give too much away. Because I want people to read it. But I can tell you that every citizen is a story in this city. At the day I handed my manuscript to my publisher, and the day it became clear that it was coming out on such and such day, I said to myself, but I wanted to add this. And then I realised that there is no end to adding something or the other. This rooftop community is quite unique. Later, I found out that there was one more, but not as big as this, where people have been living on the rooftop for two, two and a half, maybe three generations in a very prime area. So you're also tempted to say, why should I leave this area? But people carry on their lives. There are people who have lived in a particular slum for 50 odd years. And yet they don't say, my God, look at my kismet. They say, my life has improved since I first came here. And this is actually a fact. There are people who are living in the predominantly, they were living in a cosmopolitan area. Now they have shifted to a predominantly one community area because of circumstances. There is ghettoisation. Every story struck me as unusual. I wanted one thing very clearly. I wanted a hardcore Mumbai resident who has lived here for 40, 50 years to read this book and say, wow, I did not know that. And I think some of the reactions I'm getting meet that criteria that when people meet me, they say, you know, you've really brought out stories that are so unusual. I'll ask a simple question. How many people in this city have gone deep, deep into a slum? And to everybody who I asked, where does your driver come from? Where does your maid come from? Do you know that if you go to such and such a neighbourhood, such and such slum where your driver lives, it's, it's a, for all practical purposes, it's a normal community, except for the way it is, you know, the lack of hygiene and so many other things. But people haven't gone. And yet we keep on saying 50% of this city is slums. But how many of you, and is the removal of the slum, is this the way to remove the slum? Are you also removing the slum dweller? And I've lived in this city for a long time. So it's a unique place. And I don't say this romantically, I have not tried to romanticise Bombay, I have tried to present the reality. Thing that comes across completely, you've not romanticised it. But still, you know, when you read it, you are like, Oh, my God, wow, I think definitely that was my reaction. Like, one of the stories that stayed with me was Kanthibai from Kamathipura. And, you know, he talks about how women on the street were paid as little as two rupees or 10 rupees a night. And in earlier years, some of those same women can fetch as much as one lakh in private. And then you write that, you know, it's a quiet irony, because you write that Kanthibai is not without moral standards, because, you know, he finds homosexual sexuality repulsive and immoral. So, you know, how do you how did you find these stories? I know, as a journalist, you know, you must have walked corner to corner asking people, what was your process? How did you find these amazing stories that you presented in this book? So you want me to give my secrets away, I noticed. Firstly, I've always been a walker in this city. In Bombay earlier, Mumbai now, I walk, I walk a lot. People say, Oh, the footpaths are broken. Yes, they are. They say that, you know, you walk for like 10 minutes and you're sweating. Yes, that's true. But I have walked first as a student, then as a journalist, then in various capacities as a professional, even for work and for not work, I have walked. And for this, I walked the entire length and breadth of the city. I walked from, I would say, from the deepest recesses of out there in Colaba to maybe Mankhur and Govandi, places that respectable Mumbaikers have not heard of, much less visited. I walked with the western side. I walked the central side. I walked. And I keep emphasising this in all my discussions, panel discussions, to say that this is something that came in very, very handy to me because of my earlier habit. And in some places I took a guide, local, in some places an NGO, in some places myself, observing, talking, stopping, and just saying, I mean, let me tell you, if you can't walk into a neighbourhood and say, tell me your story, it doesn't work like that. It is a very painstaking process and an empathetic process. And you must have come across, you know, hundreds and hundreds of stories that you've not put in the book as well. Good point. So how did you decide, okay, you know, this is what I'm going to keep out. Were there any people or stories that you ultimately had to leave out, which are really fascinating, that you'd like to talk about as well? The stories that were kept out were no less interesting. But firstly, there is a length limit. And already I've got a lot of stuff. There was also an entire section on Bombay's history from the ancient times and then started with the Portuguese and the British. So but I, I said, No, that doesn't work here. So there were a lot of stories I had to keep out. I'm racking my brains to see whether there was anything of note of people's stories. But for that, maybe another book, I was just gonna suggest that I really feel so that you should write many more books, because I so agree with you, every single person in the city has a story to tell. And the fact that, you know, as you said, not many people actually walk and take that time and, you know, and what you're not getting anything in turn, you're just walking and you're hearing people's stories. I definitely feel that a much bigger thing needs to be done around this. Maybe a younger writer like you or somebody should do it. No, absolutely. I think one of the things that I liked, I was a journalist for a very brief period with She the People just two years. And one of the things that I really liked was that I was a Mumbai correspondent. And so because of that, I had to sort of travel around the city, hearing people's stories, actually went to meet Gauri Sawant at her house, which was a very interesting anecdote. And I read that in your book. Also, I found it very interesting. You know, she's got so much press because of the ad that she did, that they did, the transgender ad. But yet in her community, things have not changed for her on a day to day basis. There's still so much stigma around her, which is, you know, that irony is just crazy to understand because on the one hand, she's a celebrated, lauded figure outside, but nothing's really changed for her on a day to day. That is true. And I met them in somebody's home. We had a nice chat. She's a very, they are a very, though, by the way, she doesn't mind being referred to as a she, but a very smart, sensitive person. It's not only the ad, it's the way they communicate. It's, you know, her ability to understand issues is fantastic. She's made a lot of money and she's conscious of that or they are conscious of that, but no one will rent out an apartment. So this is one of the ironies of nobody will rent out to a young Muslim woman. Nobody will rent out to anyone who is perceived as different. Homosexuals, for example, gay, queer men or queer women or from various communities. It's just for a city that prides itself on being cosmopolitan. It's an extremely narrow minded, bigoted city. It is. I remember a conversation I had with a writer who's Muslim and his broker didn't know he was Muslim. And then when it came to actually sort of like giving the documents and everything, he had given his last name and then they said, oh, we didn't know that, you know, you're a Muslim. So now this flat is no longer available. There's a lot of stories like that. You mentioned Atika Chauhan, who had this wonderful documentary about single women in Mumbai trying to find places. So all of that is also included in the book. And you've moved through so many parts of the city as well. Marine Lines, Fort, Kamatipura, Parel, Dongri. And what I really liked was that you showed the specific history of each place and you didn't flatten it out into stereotypes because that does tend to happen. For example, in Dongri, you know, you said that it's a neighbourhood shaped by a long settled Muslim community, but yet it's very casually often labelled as a ghetto because of prejudice rather than actual fact. So having spent so much time, you know, with these different neighbourhoods and their histories, which part of Bombay do you think is the most misunderstood today and why? Oh, that's a question I'll have to grapple with. Which part is misunderstood? I would certainly say the slums, the, as you mentioned, Dongri. Dongri has got, you know, a Jain Derasar and it has got a small, what is called an Israeli Mahalla and a synagogue, two synagogues actually, one prayer room and one proper synagogue reportedly built by Tipu Sultan. Somebody who went and met Tipu Sultan came back and made it. These anecdotes, these wonderful stories exist and co-exist. You know, somebody listening to this will wonder why is he bemoaning this city? I must tell you, this is a city which has, I think I began with that point, co-exists. People co-exist not because of, not because of compulsion, but because they realise that they've got to all pull along. If you read the history of how this city started growing and that part was, I think, left out. When the East India Company came, the second governor said very clearly, please come to this city. We are guaranteeing you freedom of religion. And the Gujaratis, the Parsis, the Muslims first from Gujarat and then from elsewhere started flowing in and they found that they could practise their religion because before that, the Portuguese were just trying to convert and the English said, no, come here, build a business. This is, according to us, a great place for mercantile activities, commerce, trade and please come here and settle down and we will not force conversion on you. So, that's why there are Anglican churches, but those Anglican churches were not, the English, the British didn't say, oh convert and start attending. Nobody converted. The Portuguese Catholic churches wanted to do that. All that is there, but I've left it out, but that's easily available to anyone who cares to, anyone who cares to research. So, there is coexistence in this city, but there is also prejudice and I suppose it's coexistence with prejudice, but prejudice which is based on class. Many, many complexes I know of will not care if you are from a different religion. They generally don't care, but they care if you are from a different economic class background. I'm also seeing that a lot more in terms of, because I guess it's a richest city in India right now, where, you know, the conversation and talk tends to be sort of money, money, money and sort of, you know, fitting into that social sphere and I just say a little bit, you know, because you said everyone like a story. I was just thinking a little bit about sort of like growing up with my childhood and I'd love to know a little bit about your childhood as well. So, when I was growing up, I used to also walk a lot and there was a library next to my house which I used to go to almost every other day and I used to go on my own over there and the librarians knew me really well and I still have my library number 2988. That's my library number and they used to help me pick out books and I used to come home with like two, three books every day and then, you know, there was a park. So, as a child, I remember walking a lot. I remember playing down in the compound with the other kids from nearby buildings. We used to play different games. There were some kittens. We used to play with those kittens. There was a little, you know, shop where we used to buy candies, things like that. There was a lot of things we used to do which I have noticed myself. I don't see children anymore playing around. Again, I don't want to bemoan this. This is just sort of my own observations which I thought, you know, I'd also like to share. I don't see that happening anymore and I just wonder like going ahead in the next generation, what is childhood going to look like for the next generation of Mumbaikers? I've thought a lot about that, Tara. Honestly, I've thought a lot about that. And even if your friends came over to your compound or vice versa, they, while going from one building to the other, they pass the street, they observe the street on their own, perhaps unsupervised after a certain age, and they saw the street, they saw the the mochi, they saw the hawker at the corner selling fruits. They saw, even in the slightly more, you know, the more expensive areas, you will, if you walk down the street for five minutes, see all this. You know, you may not see a slum in every neighbourhood, but you will see this. And then they will also, while being taken hither and thither, I'm talking about the better-off child because a lot of children, by the way, to go to school, used to, I went to school in a bus, BST bus. A lot of children went like that. Some went by train. I have also, after a particular age, gone by train. You see everything, you observe. People didn't have cars. Everyone didn't have cars. Everyone didn't have phones either. Again, I emphasise that I am not becoming nostalgic. Please understand. I'm saying that any change, any transformation has to consider the human aspect in the, in its, you know, what it's trying to do. And I think the human aspect of relationships, of displacement, of uprooting, of spatial kind of readjusting has to consider what it will, what effect it will have on the people individually and otherwise. And if it doesn't, then someone told me, I read your book and I felt that there is a lot of emphasis now on plans and schemes, but no emphasis on the human. So that's one, one way of looking at it. And I think that is what I felt was the change that we were, this city has missed somewhere along. And in fact, the title itself, A Million Islands, emphasises that seven islands brought the city together. They were woven to bring the city together and a million islands are fragmented. So the city is now fragmented completely. Everyone is in their own universe. Correct. Yeah. I agree. I think about this a lot actually, you know, because I'm also at that age where I'm thinking about, okay, the future. And I just, when you thought about the bus, I just remembered, yeah, some of my best friends actually are from the bus. We used to stand at the bus stop together, you know, waiting for the school bus. We used to play Uno in the bus. And now I see people sort of like going in like very shiny cars to school and all of that, which maybe that's also, they're having fun in their own ways. But I wanted to ask you because you are a Mumbai girl. And you obviously would have grown up in a Bombay that's very different from even the Bombay that I grew up in. So could you share an anecdote from the Bombay of your childhood, something that captures what the city once felt like for you? Gosh, it's so far back. I remember one thing that when I used to go to college, I found out that, soon I found out, we didn't have a car. But soon I found out that there was somebody we knew who came from a privileged background. And she and her friend used to insist they were dropped by car. She and her friend insisted that they be dropped off about half a kilometre away so that they could walk the rest. Because otherwise, they felt that they would be figures of fun. So I thought, that thought, that anecdote, as I remember it quite often, because coming by car was not cool. I could have really continue this conversation. I have so many more questions, and so many more stories that you have as well. But what are you working on next? I'd love to know. Oh, God, I'm so mentally drained out. I'm talking about, just thinking about this book, planning it's, you know, planning, it's not promotion really, but talking about this book various places. I'm talking about this book, not just only for commercial sales, but also because I want these stories to reach out to more and more people. There are a couple of ideas in my head. And I'm chewing over these ideas and saying, what should it be? Should it be about Mumbai? Or should it be about something else? My previous books may have broader subjects. But Mumbai features in it a lot, because my entire emphasis is on the fact that Mumbai is a very modern place. If you read the chapter on Marine Drive, you will see how modernity came to the city. But even before that, it was a modern city in terms of attitudes. So a couple of points, a couple of ideas I'm working on, but I haven't even approached a publisher. I'm not, I don't know when I'll even start writing the first sentence. I wish I could say I'm just earning a well-deserved rest, but I'm not. Promoting a book is... And don't forget, I continue to be a full-fledged journalist. Yes, of course, of course. I think, yeah, this book is a great call to action also for just Mumbaikars in general, just wanting to know a little bit about how this change that we see in front of our eyes, what's going to happen with this change? And to think about it and see what our place could be or if we have any hands in this change. So we have one last section of the interview, which is a rapid fire round, which I'm going to ask you questions. Yeah. And you have to answer in one word or one sentence. Okay. If you could live in any era of Mumbai, which one would you choose? Good question. I've often thought about that. I think the 1950s. Post-independence. Oh, I just want to add this much. Why? Post-independence, a lot of confidence in the air, but also trepidation about the future. But the 1950s, when my father was working and he told me stories and he was not, he was himself a refugee. So it's not as if he's, you know, had a privileged kind of life. But some of the things he has said and some of the I've watched in the cinema from the 1950s, there's anxiety, but there's also a lot of hope. So that's one. I think that's a really interesting answer. And I think for me, I guess it would, I would want to go like 50, even 50 or 100 years in the future and see what happens to us. And I'd also want to go back to my grandparents' time because I find it very fascinating. Okay. A city you love other than Mumbai. And one time I would have said London because I really loved it. I spent time there and I love the bars, but I love the English and British ways, simple things like standing in a queue. But, and I'm one of those odd guys who loves English food. But now I don't know. I really don't know. I suppose New York up to a point, but I can assure you no city in India. Absolutely. I just can't think of comparing because that would be totally, it just wouldn't work. And I've I've lived in other cities. Right? No, I think Mumbai is, you can't compare it. And I was just speaking to another writer recently, and we were talking about how Mumbai is actually one of the safest cities in the world for women, because it is safe, no matter what area you go to, which is a very interesting phenomenon, I think. So I don't think anything compares really to my aunties in India. Okay. One book that captures Mumbai perfectly, obviously, which is not your own. Mantu stories. There are stories by Krishan Chand Chander who came from, I think he came from Delhi or Pakistan, and he wrote in Urdu, but he's not, he's not got his due. Kishan Chand's stories about what people's lives in Bombay. So there are writers of that ilk. There is an interesting book. I mean, it's not a great book, Night in Bombay by Louis Bromfield that I like to read about a British visitor coming to India and his description of how he first spots the gateway of India and the Taj. Very nice. But again, I was not one of those classic books or something. Okay, great choices. Thank you so much. I think this was I really, really enjoyed this conversation. I think this book really makes you pause and look at Mumbai a little differently. You know, we're all living in a city, it is a fast paced hustling. And this book just makes you think about where we are and what's happening. And not just a city we live in, but a city that's layered with history that sometimes we often can even walk past without noticing. So yeah, to my listeners, what's that one Mumbai thing that you secretly love, but you complain about publicly? Tell me in the comments. And don't forget to follow and rate Books and Beyond. Thank you. Hope you enjoyed this episode of Books and Beyond with Bound. This podcast is created by Bound, a company that helps you grow through stories. Find us at Bound India on all social media platforms. Tune in every Wednesday as we peek into the lives and minds of some brilliant authors from India and South Asia.