9.16 What Makes a Bestseller? Naiyya Singh Decodes

Do you actually need a big personality online for your book to succeed? The answer might surprise you. 

In this episode, Tara sits down with Naiyya Singh, Assistant General Manager of Marketing at HarperCollins India, to pull back the curtain on what it actually takes to get a book into the right hands. 

They get into what a book marketing campaign really looks like and why fiction and nonfiction get treated completely differently. Naiyya tells us how plans have to adapt to news cycles and trends, and why an intimate launch of 20 people can be as significant as a packed auditorium. 

Naiyya also breaks down the question of virality every author asks, as well as the other elements that go into marketing a book.

From escape-room campaigns to intimate roundtable launches, they explore the creativity, unpredictability and occasional frustration of book marketing. They also dig into the resurgence of book clubs and why the best metric for a successful book has nothing to do with first-week sales. 

If you are an aspiring book marketer or an author nervous for their launch, you don’t want to skip this chapter! 

Press play to get the scoop on what really sells a book and why even the best ones take time. 

Books mentioned in this episode: 

1. The complex by Karan Mahajan
2. Politics, Policy and Predictions: Views from the Front Row of Parliament by Derek O’Brien
3. Dream Count - Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
4. Association of Small Bombs by Karan Mahajan
5. The Only City: Bombay in Eighteen Stories by Anindita Ghose
6. Lightning in a Shot Glass by Deepanjana Pal
7. Dakini by K. Hari Kumar
8. The Enclave by Rohit Manchanda
9. August 17 by S. Hareesh, translated by Jayasree Kalathil 
10. The Complex by Karan Mahajan
11. Ghost Eye by Amitav Ghosh
12. Gone with the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
13. The Thorn Birds by Colleen McCullough 

‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms. 

Transcript

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If your job had a warning label, what would it say? Read at your own risk. So, let's talk about something most writers struggle with a lot, right? Marketing your book. Because writing a book is one journey, but getting people to actually read it, talk about it, recommend it, getting on book clubs and books and beyond, that's a whole different game. And I've seen so many writers struggle with this, you know, and you have the right manuscript, but if it doesn't reach the right audience, you start wondering, should I be on Instagram? Do I need to build a personal brand? And how do books even become bestsellers? Well, today I have someone with me who can answer some of these questions, if not all. And we're going straight to the source today because I have with me Naya Singh. She is the Assistant General Manager in the marketing team at HarperCollins India, is one of the biggest publishing houses in the world and in India. And she has worked on amazing campaigns for some of our favourite authors like Amitav Ghosh, Bhavika Goel, Ramchandra Guha, Anandita Ghosh, so many more. And she is essentially the person behind making sure that books don't just get published, but actually find their readers. I think that's such an important part, one of the maybe the most important part of what you guys do. So, very excited to have you here. Thank you so much, Sara. I'm equally excited to be here, because as you know, I love your podcast and the work that you do. And you are one of the reasons that our books get the kind of coverage that it does. So, that's amazing. So, thank you for your support, because it's we look for support from avid readers like you, you know, to put the word out. Thank you. I really enjoyed all the book mail and all the recommendations. And I have to say, I as a reader, as an avid reader, have been exposed to so much more because of the marketing that I see that, you know, companies like HarperCollins to others, I would never have discovered those books, I think discoverability is something I want to speak about. But before we get into that nitty gritty, I want to find out a little bit more about you. Because I know that your journey into publishing was not straightforward. You've done quite a few things, you worked as cabin crew, you worked PR, you worked at the print, you were a travel writer. So tell me a little bit about your professional journey and how did publishing happen? So as you rightly sort of put it in a tight little capsule, that's exactly how, you know, sort of came about, I studied journalism, then accidentally forayed into travelling, which is with Air India was fine for about 11 years, which was a lot of fun, which of course, led me to become a travel writer as well. And then it just sort of lent itself from one place to another, it was quite organic, actually, you know, because I think the skills that you acquire as cabin crew, for example, they are transferable skills, like soft skills, for example, whether it's managing people, or it's managing communication, or it's even managing a crisis, for example, right. So that's what led me to the print, I learned a lot there, I had a lovely time, I had great managers, I had great bosses. And then finally came to HarperCollins, because I think it just helps that you're a reader, and it was just very organic. So I can't say, you know, what the what this is, there's no defined line to say that this is what led me from one to the other, it was just, it just fell into place. You know, I think with every job or industry that I was a part of, it exposed me to different things and different people. So everything that happened, happened very organically at that point of time, you know, so especially with HarperCollins, we were doing a lot of books with HarperCollins at that time at the print as well. So it was just something that sort of naturally lent itself to that a couple of years later. Okay, and was it sort of like a, you said it's natural, was it a sort of a conscious decision to move from journalism to publishing, because they are kind of related, but obviously, it's two separate industries as well. No, it wasn't. It's interesting. It's sort of coming full circle, in a sense, even when I was at the print, it was sort of coming back to journalism, in a sense, even though I wasn't practising active journalism at the print, and I was handling marketing and events. But yeah, it's sort of like a homecoming. But no, it wasn't a conscious decision. But I think it's just, it's something I studied, so I'm naturally inclined towards, so it just sort of lent itself to that. And it's lovely how it all plays out. So let's start with sort of your day to day, because I think, you know, that's what a lot of people are interested in. And when we think of publishing and marketing, we think book launches, we think lit fairs, meeting authors, but I know there's a lot more than just that. When you've been with HarperCollins for a few years now, and obviously worked with, you know, different authors. So what does your role actually look like on a regular day? What are you really doing most of the time? So every day is different. And that's what makes it interesting. So you know, you come prepared with a timetable saying, okay, I'll do X, Y, Z today. But then there are so many other things that require your attention. So most of the time, you're not actually following the timetable that you come with. And that's what makes it so exciting, right? Because books are dynamic. Topics are dynamic, you know, themes become dynamic in terms of the news cycle, for example, that's going on, right? So on a day to day basis, we're basically also seeing that, okay, for example, you know, what book might resonate with readers in that given period in terms of whether what day it is, or what week it is, etc. So that's one, then of course, there's a lot of coordination that goes into working with authors, or whether it's working with the sales team, making sure that everything's on track. If there's a big book coming out, you know, launches for that book, etc, or a tour, etc, that has to be planned. So it's a lot of coordination. And it's a lot of interaction with cultural spaces and media spaces, and and literary spaces as well, such as yourself, right, to place the book in the right bracket for that particular book. And I've always been curious about this. Do you choose the authors that you work with? Or are sort of assigned to you? And how many authors like I'm sure, because there's different stages, like there's a launch, then you know, there's when the book is already launched, the publicity is going on. So there are different projects, probably at different stages. So can you talk a little bit about that also? So no, I mean, you know, we all handle different genres and imprints. So for example, like I handle the literary imprint. So I work with those authors, we have somebody, we have a business vertical, we have a nonfiction vertical, we have a children's vertical. So so we have publicists who work with specific genres. And we also have an international vertical, for example. So that is how it works in terms of so you know, when it comes to choosing authors, we love all our authors. So no, it's not one over the other. But it's just in terms of the space that you're working in. And how many authors do you sort of work with at a time? Like, say, like, would you be working with one or two authors if it's a big book launch? Because I know, for example, Bhavika Gogol's book, that was a big book launch, I got the book box and the merch and all of those things. The same time, you know, you guys are releasing so many books. So do they all get publicity? Or how does your time get divided? So no, so every book gets its, you know, sort of its due space as, as it deserves, right? Because every book, we promote every book equally, right? Like, for example, it was Bhavika's first book. And it did really well, because she's an excellent writer, right? So that got its due space. But at the same time, we're also dealing with other authors, like you rightfully said, so there could be two, three titles in a month. But it's not just about a month to month basis, because it's not like if I have a book this month, I'm going to forget about my other authors, right? Because marketing campaigns are ongoing. And they don't have a, you know, timeline in terms of when they're petering out. So we could be I could be looking at a marketing campaign or revisiting a marketing campaign of a book that came out even last year. So we're dealing with multiple authors at all times. But then you just prioritise in terms of, okay, what is the book coming out this month, so you maybe give it a little more priority in terms of promotions. And then what makes you re-up, say a book that was published last year, re-up that maybe into sort of this month cycle? Is it something like current affairs that makes a book relevant again, or something in the news cycle? What is it? So that could be one. Another could be the celebration of a book just doing really well, like celebrating one year or two years, etc. of the book, or something thematic again. If it's a book, not just necessarily about the news cycle, but for example, if it's a World Poetry Day, for example, we want to sort of revisit our poetry books that have done well. Or if it's Valentine's, we want to re-look at books, you know, based on the themes of love, etc. So that's how we sort of keep books in readers' minds, because there's so much surplus right there, right? Which is a great thing. There's so much great literature out there. And there's so much choice, which is a good, which is a plus and a minus in both senses, because people also tend to, their retaining power sort of goes down. So how do you keep books relevant? So it depends on themes, depends on news cycles, depends on, you know, if a book touches some sort of a milestone in terms of, like I said, if it's completed a year, a couple of years, if it's sold a certain number of copies, etc. You know, so there are different milestones that we look at. We look for any excuse to celebrate a book. I love that, because I love that, you know, one of the things we're doing is promoting reading. And, you know, there's a book for everybody. I know that your CEO, that's what he keeps saying, you know, that anyone can be a reader, because we just have to create a book for that person. So that's really wonderful. So in terms of sort of like a marketing plan for a particular book, right? Or is it sort of like social media, podcast? Yeah, like what kind of things and how do you decide, okay, this is how we want to push this book versus another book? Can you give an example? So again, that would depend on the theme and in the genre that it falls into, right? So for example, the promotion of a nonfiction book would be very different from the promotion of a fiction book, right? For example, because we know that fiction books also lend themselves to, you know, more reviews, for example, nonfiction books may lend themselves to more interviews, right? For example, because again, they might be relevant with what's going on in the news cycle at that point, or podcasts, or even at the kinds of events or launches that you have, or in terms of books to grammar-led campaigns, or even the alliances that you form with other cultural spaces, you know, so even those will differ, right, in terms of whether you're pushing out a business book, or you're doing a children's book, or you're doing a lit book, like for example, we have one of our biggest lit books coming out this year, Karan Mahajan, it's a book, The Complex, right? So the treatment that we give that would be very different from, let's say, Derek O'Brien's book, which is also coming out in the same month. So it's basically about the spaces that you seek for promoting that book and plugging it in the right spaces. So like, for example, like, the strategy behind Bhavika's book, would that be different from Karan Mahajan's, because she was a debut? So would that sort of be like more awareness-building in terms of like, also the merch and the cover and all of those things? Well, all that also changed, but it's not necessary. It's not that, you know, for every debut author, I would do that or wouldn't do that, or for every established author, I wouldn't do that, you know. So yes, of course, when it's a debut author, you want to, you want the media to know the person as well, you know, so you might push a little more about the author, what the author has done previously, in terms of what they've, you know, their journey in terms of what they've probably studied, or where they may have contributed, whether they've written something before, etc., in terms of articles, or, you know, that's, that's one way to look at it. But of course, in terms of Karan Mahajan, he's already an established author, right? Like he was long listed for prizes, and he's won awards, etc. So, so that sort of promotion would, of course, differ, because the media is already familiar with him, right? So, so those plugs obviously differ. So how would that differ? Like, what would be the promotion, for example, for him? So, for example, Karan's biggest promotion would be the fact that he's writing, again, a brilliant book after 10 years, right? So people know him, of course, very well, but he's not written a book in 10 years. So it's also the fact that, hey, there's a masterpiece that's coming out, because it's taken 10 years for him to write it, you know. So for example, that would be the hook there. Yeah, I remember also, even when Chimamanda's Dream Count was released, and the marketing also, the line was that, you know, publishing event, because it was the first book after so long, and people really wait for books, and even, you know, like, Kiran Desai, or any of these books by authors that are very well-known. Because I remember reading Karan Mahajan's first book, The Association of Small Bombs, and I really, really enjoyed it. So I'm also looking forward to seeing what he does next. And sometimes you follow an author, right? Because you really like their books, you will pick up whatever they write, and then expect that it's the same quality, which often is versus a debut author where you may need a little more convincing and more reviews, etc. Yes, but sometimes, I mean, not always, I mean, like, for example, since we're talking about Bhavika, it just, I mean, the reviews were excellent. And they came in very quickly, you know, because it's, I mean, the book was so good, you know, and people resonated with it was a lovely story about a family. So a lot of people, there was a lot of resonance in what she'd written, and it was very, it was fiction, but it was very relatable. Right? So, so that varies again. So one can't say that, oh, no, because it's a debut author, one might, you know, you might need to convince the media a little more. It just depends on how the book is written and how the story goes. Yeah, the end of the day, obviously, you know, the story is the main thing. You can do all the marketing in the world. Obviously, the book has to be actually good. But I want to get into something that I get a lot of questions about, you know, do I need a strong social media presence for my book to get picked up? And how much effort should I be putting into that? Do you have an answer? So, no, I mean, I don't have a defined answer for that. It always helps, you know, when I mean, you know, for example, the author is talking about their own book, but I wouldn't say that it's a, it's a given or, you know, that's, that's the benchmark to promote a good book, you know, so because like, like we just said, you know, content is king. So if your content is good, it's going to get picked up in any case, because media, the media will review it, bookstagrammers will review it, there'll be word of mouth, right about the content anyway. But yes, I mean, of course, if people follow an author, for example, you know, you're, as a reader, you're anticipating what the author is doing next, right? So if an author puts it out, it's just that perhaps, because so many people are following you, and you have a large reader base, so people will maybe do pre booking or etc, of the book, etc, you know, so does it help? Does it not certain cases yet? Yes, but is that the predetermining factor for a book to do well? Absolutely not. Like there are many other factors that go into play. What is the sort of relationship that you have with the authors when it comes to marketing a book? Because what, you know, like, because many people think, okay, you know, the book is published now as an author, I will sit back and let the publishers do what they have to do, and the book will sell. But that is proving not to be the case, you know, because there's so many books coming out. So what is that dynamic between what you also ask of the author when their book is published? No, so that most authors actually do like to get involved in the promotion of their books. There are very few who say that, you know, you do watch out in the sense that there are very few authors who would not want to be involved at all, right, because there'll always be some interviews, etc. So where authors will be available, where they'll promote their books that way, even if somebody doesn't have a strong social media presence, they'll be open for interviews, for example, or they'll be open to doing events. So marketing plans are shared, you know, with the author in advance. And there's a lot of communication right between the author and the publicist and the editor regarding because there might be certain points that the author might point out and say that, you know, okay, I have a great idea here, or I know this person well, or I know, you know, this establishment well, maybe we can work at some, you know, maybe we can look at something there, which I may not have thought of as a publicist, for example, and similarly, the other way around. So it's two way communication. But it's, it's a fun way to sort of look at it, because every author comes with their own set of, you know, sort of expectations, and also in terms of what they contribute and their own ideas. That's what makes a book, every book special, right? Because every author contributes in a different way. And do you encourage your authors to also build a social media campaign? Usually, that's not really something that every author has to do. We encourage but we don't, I mean, you know, like I said, it's not a requirement. So it's nice if it's there, because half the world is on Instagram today, you know, and a lot of as you know, you know, a lot of books sort of especially in the lit space, get picked up on Instagram or get talked about on Instagram. But no, it's not something that I mean, it's a digital world. So it's great, you know, it just helps you stay stay connected. So yes, we do tell them to build a social media presence. But it's like I said, it's not a requirement that they have to do it because we at the end of the day, if the author is not comfortable on social media, that's also going to reflect right in terms of the posts, etc, that are going out. So we want natural coverage to happen. We don't want the we don't want to force the author to do something that they're not comfortable doing. Because some authors are just more comfortable going out speaking to people doing bookstore signings and just sort of having one on one conversations, you know, they don't feel comfortable doing stuff through social media, which is fine. In some cases, like, you know, I've heard of like books sort of like sleeper books, which get into these book clubs, and then become really famous or like book talk, right? Like a book may be really, really famous on book talk versus another book that's getting a lot of critical acclaim from the press or getting a lot of interviews. So it can be any of these touch points or like social media distribution, you know, if they're talking a lot about it on their own personal social media, then there's some percentage of their followers might want to buy the book. So I guess every book sort of, you know, different touch points work for them. But what is the most creative marketing campaign or the most sort of your personal favourite, if any marketing campaign that you have done for a book? I don't, I think every book is different. So I don't have any personal favourites, because every book has to every book is unique, every marketing campaign is unique, right? Even if an author has written several books, but all the themes of the books will be different, all you know, the story, the storylines will be different, the content will be different. So every marketing plan lends itself to creativity, whichever way, whether it is fiction or nonfiction or its business. So you want to think out of your hat for every book that you promote. Can you give like some examples of sort of like books that you promoted in unique ways? Um, well, you know, like, the only city was great fun promoting, right, in terms of, you know, the boxes that we sent out. Bhavikas, again, was fun. Lightning in a shot glass was great fun. You know, because we did these magnetic bookmarks. And then at the events, we did some thematic sort of displays to go with the book, whether it was in terms of food, or whether it was in terms of, you know, matching the shot glasses, etc. So, you know, things like that are always fun to do. Or for Dakini, for example, we partnered with an escape room, you know, and because it was about, because that was a theme as such. So we put up like a puzzle, etc. for people to sort of, you know, follow through. So things like that keep coming up, you know, so with every book, you sort of think on the go. So I'm saying and needless to say, with Amitabh Ghosh, and for example, Ramchandra Guha, the tours in themselves are so much fun, you know, so it's so the things that sort of come on the fly as well, you know, sometimes you don't write those things on a marketing plan, but it's dynamic. So you keep sort of evolving, you keep fine tuning your plan, you keep sort of thinking on the spot, you keep sort of, you know, thinking of ways to sort of make the book reach more and more people. Because at the end of the day, that's what you want. You want people to read, right and read good content. Absolutely. And I like that. Yeah, because you can sort of, you know, there's so many ways into a book, whether it be sort of through author interaction, or it can be a game, like the escape room, there's so many different avenues that you even discover books. And let alone, we're not even talking about sort of like the visibility of books in bookstores and the sales floor and all of those things, which is a different part of the whole ecosystem. But I want to talk about the book launch, because, you know, it's such a big thing in every author's life, that you've written this book, and you obviously want to launch it in a very big way. But there's also a lot of chatter about our book launches even relevant anymore to market the book. So what's your take? Again, you know, I, there's no standardised comment that I'll make on that. Because again, book launches work very well for certain books. And then there are also, and for certain books, I mean, they may not work, physical book launches may not work. But for example, online conversations may work a little better, because you start a conversation around the book. So you need not necessarily need to have a conversation on ground. But you can build a conversation, you know, online, like, for example, we did that with Rohit Manchanda's book, before we had the physical launch, we built a whole conversation online, you know, about his new book, which came out, because he was also writing a book after 20 years after a long gap. And it was a book about a woman, it was a lovely book about a woman in Mumbai, but from a man's perspective. So, you know, we started a whole sort of coffee and conversation around that online. And then, of course, we did the launch, etc. But we started that a lot earlier. So even if, for example, you know, there are certain books, not every book requires a book launch for it to be successful. Yes, it's great, because people come and you know, I mean, the added advantage is that people come and they get to interact with the author, and they get the book signed. That's a different thing. And which can even happen at a bookstore signing, right. But we encourage online conversations, because at the end of the day, even if you have a book launch in a particular city, you're not, you're not going to be able to cover everybody in any case. So the idea is to make the author accessible globally, right. So that can even be through online live conversations, which essentially lends itself to a book launch of sorts, right, whether it's through a bookstagrammer, or it's through somebody else on another platform, you know, where we encourage sort of taking, you know, asking questions online. So it's basically the same experience that you're having, but except that you're not there physically, which you may not be in any case, right, if you're not available that day. I agree, I think, sort of online is much more valuable, because I've attended a lot of book launches in Bombay as well. And I mean, some of them have got hundreds of people, and some of them have got 10s and 20s of people. But even those 10s or 20s of people is brilliant, because that just shows that those are actually, you know, that those are obviously readers who are interested, right? Like those are genuine, genuine readers who turned out, or turned up for the launch, because they want to interact with the author, or they want to know more about the theme. So it works both ways, because intimate book launches work really well, and big book launches also work very well. Yeah, I think, you know, especially sort of in a city like Bombay, if you're showing up for a book launch, if you're showing up for any event, because you are competing with so much, and you're competing with traffic, and you're competing with sort of work, and all of those, if you're showing up for a book launch on any given evening, and giving your time, I think that itself speaks to the power of the book, and the draw that it has, and the draw the author has for the readers. So definitely, I think, yeah, like even 10s and 20s is totally amazing, every, because it's a, it's catapulting, right? Like, if I like the book, I'll speak about it, I'll refer it to five people, they'll refer it, and it sort of snowballs from there. I think there's, there's nothing like word of mouth. Exactly. Yeah. So I mean, just to add to that, we did a, again, a sort of a conversation last year about translations, you know, around books that have been like fabulous regional literature that's being translated, that we are translating into English, you know, so it was a conversation, it was a panel, but we ended up making on the spot, we decided, let's make it a roundtable sort of a conference, you know, like, it was an intimate affair, about 20 people, but everybody contributed to it. So it changed, we changed the format on the spot, and it turned out to be lovely, you know, so, so that's what I'm saying. So like, you know, sometimes you think on the spot, sometimes things change on the spot. And that's why sometimes intimate launches also lend themselves to deeper conversations. Absolutely. And I also want to talk about book clubs, because I've seen this resurgence of book clubs. And it's almost like reading is cool, again, which I'm all for, I'm very happy about it. So tell me about, you know, the importance of book clubs nowadays, because I've seen the Nord has its own book club organisations like the Tweek have their book clubs, then you have these smaller book communities that have book clubs, and they all seem to be very popular, lots and lots of people, you have the silent reading community. So tell me a little bit more about this evolution. Oh, I, you know, that's, like you rightfully said, there's been a resurgence in that there's generally been a resurgence actually, for reading physical copies, I think, after COVID, right, I mean, because people were just so, firstly, during COVID, people were so sick of screen time, so this was just a way to sort of get back to what we grew up doing, which is reading. And that's when a lot of book clubs and bookstagrammers sort of took flight. And they actually and they're wonderful, you know, in terms of promotions of the book, or in terms of even, you know, putting a word of mouth out, etc. And the best thing about book clubs is that they're not always gunning towards the most popular book or the most popular theme or the most popular author. And that's what makes it lovely. You know, they're there for the pure love of reading. So it can be a debut author, it can be a well known author, it can be a two year old book, it can be a three year old book, it can be a book that's recent. So that's, so that's, I mean, and we've seen that authors also, for example, they love interacting with book clubs or readers, essentially, because that gives you a true picture on ground, right? It sort of tells you about your audience, it also tells you about the kind of people are reading a book in terms of the age, the demographic, right? For example, you might think that, okay, this will work with a certain domain demographic, but it might surprise you, you might find, oh, they're younger readers, or they're older readers, or there are all sorts of readers. So that also all that adds to your data as well, in terms of how you may promote the other book. But of course, there's no set sort of algorithm for that. But we've seen that authors also really, really like interacting with book clubs, whether it's online, or it's in person. And, you know, I read that Guardian article, everybody was talking about the Guardian article on LitFest. And it said that India has many more LitFests and many more people attending these LitFests than there are readers. And everyone, it seemed like everyone had a take on that. So what's your take on it? Because I know you, you know, send a lot of your authors to all the amazing LitFests that are there in the country, there's so many, even to Kala Ghoda, which I curate. So tell me about your take on that article. And do you think that what they're claiming is true or untrue? Oh, I think there are readers, I think people will only go to a LitFest if they are reading, so they may not read maybe all genres, or they might be interested only in a specific genre. But I think everybody who comes, most people, I would like to believe, who come to LitFest, come because they're taking something away from that in terms of knowledge, in terms of maybe, sometimes you just come because you're curious, right? You may not know too much about an author, you may not know too much about a theme, but you go and you listen, and you say, Hey, okay, this resonates with me, or, you know, maybe I'll pick up this book. So if even if you're converting a non reader to a reader, I think that's a win. So I think that's how LitFests work. And I think it's great that we have so many literature festivals, we have so many platforms to promote excellent literature. Oh, yeah, 100% I agree. And, you know, because people always say, oh, even to me, they say, oh, you're working in such a niche field, or are people reading? Or do people really read? What's happening with books? And I always feel like, yeah, I don't know, people are reading more than ever, I feel, don't you? True. And I don't know if you noticed at LitLife that we met last year, if you remember, when people were queuing up, and they were waiting for sessions, they were reading in line, you know, as opposed to being on their screens, or chit chatting, or whatever a lot of people were just they just took out books, and they were reading like, which was really heartening to see. So I don't know, I'm not quite sure if I buy that whole argument about there are no readers, because even when you go in metros, for example, you see people reading, right? So and a lot of people in the wild, they're driving, they're listening to audiobooks, because you may not have time to sort of physically leap through a book. But I think that's great as well, because that's you're basically consuming good content, which is, which is what we're trying to do. Yeah. And I think books can definitely coexist with other formats, just because other formats are increasing in popularity, like reels and shows and OTT doesn't mean book as a format is going to die, you know, it can easily coexist. And you can pick it up for different reasons, exactly reasons why you want to pick it up. So what are some do's and don'ts that you would tell every author that they should have in mind while marketing their work? There are no don'ts, I think, whatever an author wants to do to promote their book, it always ends. There are no don'ts, really. I mean, if you can, that's what I said, you know, it's like, our read campaign, if you're converting even one non reader into a reader with whatever you're doing, that's a good thing, right? Because you're promoting knowledge, you're promoting say, I mean, you're expanding somebody's mind in some way. So I don't think that there's any list of don'ts really, I think, and authors are also sensitive, they know what would work and what would not work. So I don't think any authors would sort of do anything which would harm, I suppose, their books. So there are no don'ts and do's is, yeah, I mean, all authors are great. I already know what they're doing, you know, talk to more people. And as authors say, like, for example, Amitabh Kumar said, like somebody asked him, what is the one thing that authors should continue doing? He said, authors should continue reading, because the more you read, the better you write, right? So I think that and that's something that all authors already know, and all aspiring authors already know. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think reading is essential. How much of your job is reading the books? Because, you know, obviously, that's sort of like, is that something you do on the job? Is that something you have to go home and do? Oh, that's pretty much my job. Because you know, the thing is that unless you read your content or the product or you know, what you're promoting, you're not going to believe in it, right? So if I'm telling people to read something, I need to read it myself to believe in it and to sort of tell people to read it. So that's part of the reason why I love this job. And the why, like you said, you know, how did you get into it? It's because I'm a reader. So it was just a natural fit. So yeah, I mean, you definitely have to read what you're promoting. But do you have to sort of read it over time? Or do you read it sort of like, you know, during the workday as well? So, so, I mean, I don't know what other everybody has their own process. I read, I read all my books twice, at least, if not more. Once is, you know, from the pure perspective of making a marketing plan that I'll say, okay, these are the points I'll call out, I'll do this, I'll do that, exactly. And once is just for my own pleasure that I would read the book. Oh, nice. I like that. That will definitely help you market it better as well. Okay. And what, you know, because everybody, obviously, there's so many aspects that you love your job. And it's very glamorous. Also, you're meeting so many people, what are some more difficult parts of the job that people don't see or talk about enough? Oh, I think people, yeah, they see the glamorous bits of, you know, of the event, etc, which are a lot of fun. And glamorous bits, I mean, you know, basically, I think just making sure that, you know, the book reaches the right spaces. Sometimes it's frustrating when you know that it's good content, but it's not getting the kind of reviews that it should, or it's not getting the kind of media output that it should, for example. So that's challenging. That's frustrating, especially, like I said, when you know that the book is good. And that can be for various reasons that that happens, right? Like, for example, if there are too many books coming out at that time, or too many big books coming out at that time, it's a particular season, etc, etc, etc. There can be 100 reasons why books don't. So that's challenging, especially when you know you're sitting on good literature, and that's not maybe working as fast as you'd like, because in marketing, we want everything to be fast. But that doesn't always happen. Sometimes it takes time. And that's okay. Right? Because sometimes things sort of, you know, they sort of stew and they sort of marinate and then they sort of bloom. Right? So I think it's that waiting period. For me, I'm talking about myself, you know, that waiting for something to sort of bloom. Sometimes it just kind of, it makes me a little impatient, because I'm saying no, no, no, this is great. This is great. Why? You know, why don't you see it right now? Yeah, yeah. And it's tough, because you know, it is competitive out there. There's a lot of books that you're competing with, you're competing with shows and events and so much, you know, for the reader's attention. So yeah, it's very rare, I think that it's something that can happen overnight. But on that note, you know, have you seen any surprises that, you know, at first, the book is not selling like you wanted it to? And then suddenly, you know, just takes off? Have you seen anything like that? I think all our books do well, we select our books accordingly. So when we select a book, we know that we believe in the content. So we know that it is going to do well, in any case. So eventually, they all find that place under the sun, as and when the time comes. What do you think success means when it comes to a book that has been published? Is it sales, visibility, longevity awards? I would say if a book stays with you, for me, for me, that would be a successful book, you know, somebody remembering a title or somebody remembering a book three years down the line, four years down the line and saying, Oh, hey, you know, that book came up with that resonated with me, resonated with me, or that I want to read it again. I think for me, that qualifies as a successful book, because obviously, you left an imprint in someone's mind that they want to pick it up again, or they're still talking about it a few years down the line. Yeah, that's a really good metric that it's not forgettable. And you want to come back, I think those are the best books that you know, you always bookmark them for reading later. And I have many books like that as well. So, you know, obviously, you read a lot, you're in charge of the literary kind of books that HarperCollins publish to market them. In your personal time, what kind of books are you reading? I'm reading the same kind of books, actually. I think that's why I'm enjoying it so much, because it sort of resonates with me. I love literary fiction. And that's what I was always reading. So yeah, I think it just lent itself to that. So which is why when I'm reading for pleasure, it doesn't, I mean, I really am reading for pleasure. I'm not reading. You know, it's a book that we publish. And it's not, you don't see good literature is not defined by publishing houses, right? Like there's good literature across. So you pick up, you just pick up great books that are published across whether it's internationally or in India, or it's across publishing houses, etc. Because that's what we want. We just want people to read. So I'm pretty much reading the same thing. So what are three books that you read recently that you really loved? Oh, I'm going to talk about the three books that I'm recently reading that I really, really love. That's August 17. That's The Complex. And what is the third book? Amitabh Ghosh, Ghost Eye? I just finished Ghost Eye. I found it very interesting, very fascinating, a very different kind of book from Amitabh. Yeah, I loved it. Okay, cool. So now yeah, we move on to the last section. It's a rapid fire round. And I'll ask you a few questions. You can answer one word or one sentence. Okay. An author habit that always makes you smile or slightly panic? Smile or panic? Um, I think the urgency of any author before the launch. Yeah. Okay. You know, that makes sense. Yeah. It's human nature. I think if your job had a warning label, what would it say? Oh, a warning label, it would be read at your own risk. Nice. One thing authors think matters a lot, but actually doesn't? No, I think authors pretty much know what matters and what doesn't. So a book you wish you could go back in time and market yourself? Oh, um, that's many, many books. I don't know Gone with the Wind. I love that book. I read it in college. Yeah. Same, The Thorn Birds. That's another one. Many more to come in the future. Many bestsellers, many award winning books. Thank you so much, Maya. This was really fun. And a very eye opening conversation. And I also learned a lot about what goes on behind the scenes, what you need, what you should do. And to any listeners listening out there, there's something I want to know from you. What is one thing about the publishing or book marketing world that surprised you in this conversation? Let me know in the comments. Thank you. It was really fun. Thank you so much. Hope you enjoyed this episode of Books and Beyond with Bound. This podcast is created by Bound, a company that helps you grow through stories. Find us at Bound India on all social media platforms. Tune in every Wednesday as we peek into the lives and minds of some brilliant authors from India and South Asia.