#505 | Why We Feel Attacked When People Try to Help

In today’s episode of Evolve Ventures Tech, we get honest about why asking for help can feel so threatening once the guidance actually reaches us. We look at the psychology behind defensiveness, shame, fixed mindsets, and the nervous system patterns that can turn support into something that feels like an attack.

If you have ever wanted change but noticed yourself shutting down when someone tried to guide you, this episode invites you to pause, question the story your mind is building, and stay open long enough to see what may be waiting on the other side. Let the truth reach you before your defenses rewrite it.

Here are related episodes that build on today’s conversation:
#502 | The #1 Antidote to Shame - https://apple.co/3RbNBfK
#423 | You're Not Responsible for Their Emotions - https://apple.co/48pPRpO

Learn more about:
🤝 Out of the Mud (OOTM) - "Being Strong Is Exhausting: The Mental Health Cost of Always Holding It Together" - https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/IykObX8eR7ixJaQ-qqZogw#/registration

Evolve Group Coaching - https://evolveventurestech.com/evolve-group-coaching/

📽️ Insightful films. Meaningful growth. Join our Evolve Movie Club - https://forms.gle/bBZUbFEeD2ijypCT7

🌱 The #YouDoYou Therapy Program gives you support when and how you need it. No pressure. Just real help. Start your free 7-day trial today - https://buy.stripe.com/fZe8Avdfx8bW9gcfZc

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Show notes:
(2:14) The difference between help and advice
(8:29) When perception becomes your reality
(12:10) Therapy is more like the gym
(16:10) How coercive control hides itself
(17:56) The shame response behind defensiveness
(19:57) Separating emotion from reality
(22:22) Why true strength asks for help
(23:59) Outro

***Leave them a 5-star review if you felt their energy, became inspired, or felt as though the value was added to your life in your EVOLUTION.

(Stay tuned for this coming Thursday’s episode!)

Transcript

Bianca Thomas

(0:00) There is a massive difference between asking for help and actually being ready to hear, receive, and accept that help.

Emilia Smith

(0:14) And what do you do when you are desperately needing that help in whatever area that might be in your life, but yet as soon as you go into the arena to get that help or guidance, you immediately feel attacked. (0:30) We're gonna talk about that in this episode.

Bianca Thomas

(0:32) Most of us are looking for hope, answers to the madness, certainty that we'll be okay, and someone safe to help guide us through the most challenging parts of our lives. (0:43) In a world that's changing and evolving every single day where chaos, uncertainty, and cycles we never chose wreak havoc on our lives, it's easy to feel lost, hopeless, and scared of what the future will hold.

Emilia Smith

(1:00) Evolve Ventures is here to provide that hope, direction, and data-driven strategies to growth-minded human beings just like you every Monday and Thursdays where each new episode is filled with vulnerable stories, interesting lessons, and simple tools you can use that will help you evolve into the person you were always meant to be.

Bianca Thomas

(1:21) My name's Emilia. (1:22) And I'm Bianca.

Emilia Smith

(1:23) And as the co-founders of Evolve Ventures, we are so grateful to be a part of your evolution. (1:29) Let's get into it. (1:30) Hey, everybody, it's Bianca.(1:32) Welcome back, Evolvers. (1:33) It's Emilia. (1:34) Today for episode 505, (1:37) why we feel attacked when people try to help, (1:40) it is my intention to make sure (1:43) that if you have ever felt attacked (1:45) when you try to get help, (1:48) Bianca and I are going to break down the psychology (1:49) as to why and hopefully help you recognize (1:54) what is a more adaptive and constructive way to respond (1:58) to when you have that feeling (2:00) so that you don't run away from the help (2:02) that you're desperately seeking, (2:04) but rather you turn towards it and reframe it (2:07) to ultimately get the help that you deeply need.(2:10) And here's why. (2:12) So Bianca, you have something to add?

Bianca Thomas

(2:14) Yeah, I just, super quick disclaimer. (2:17) This is not, this is not for those people who give unsolicited advice and are quote unquote trying to help, but it's not actually helpful because they're just throwing their opinions or ideas at you. (2:33) This is about someone who you have actually asked for help, they are actually a professional or they are someone who actually is qualified to give you help, and then you feel this way.(2:50) Absolutely, absolutely.

Emilia Smith

(2:52) So as a professional, I tend to have a lot of individuals who will come to me and say, hey Emilia, I know that you and Alan do what's called relationship talks coaching. (3:09) And for anyone that's new to the podcast, that is something that Alan, my partner, and I do with couples to help them not just be able to survive in their intimate relationships, but to thrive. (3:23) And ultimately what that looks like is understanding each other at the deepest levels, primarily your goals, beliefs, and core aspirations, or cores, core, I'm sorry, beliefs, core values, and aspirations, and taking those three things and being able to like bring them together so that you and your partner can grow together, not apart.(3:43) And that's the whole essence of RTC. (3:45) RTC is one of my favorite things that we do between he and I. (3:50) And why is that is because I get to take all this beautiful repertoire of schooling, tools, professional training, et cetera, and be able to channel it into what is, from my perspective, one of the most powerful entities in this world, which is between two people that deeply love and care about each other.(4:08) And if they so happen to have children, everything that we do and help them transform is going to have a ripple effect in their children. (4:14) So I'll have individuals and we'll have people come to Evolve and say, hey, what do you guys got going on over there? (4:20) And so I'll share, hey, we have this thing called Relationship Talks Coaching.(4:25) And if you want, we do 30 minutes free every single Saturday for new couples, not gonna sell you anything, just to try to add value in your lives. (4:33) Because more often than not, couples, people tend to have very similar problems and challenges in their relationships, in their life, Bianca, right? (4:42) And these patterns come up, and yet so, so often people won't know who to trust and turn to from a professional standpoint and that trying to find your person to align for that help and guidance, it takes forever.(4:57) But ultimately what had happened, and this was now a year ago. (5:03) So Alan and I, because of our appearances, we have been referred to as Barbie and Ken a couple of times. (5:12) And I've mentioned this in a podcast episode before, where people will look at us and just snap judgments because he and I are beautiful people.(5:22) And I know that sounds arrogant, but I'm just sharing what I've heard and also appreciate the beauty and that's awesome. (5:29) All great. (5:30) But we are incredibly gifted in the mind and we are professionals who study every single day, practice, study, teach, right?(5:38) And so in that one setting, we have had multiple people say, how are Barbie and Ken going to help us in our relationship, in our intimate relationship? (5:47) And we giggle at that because we understand it's really intimidating when you get around someone and they seem to be the full package. (5:53) They seem to have it all.(5:55) And when you are in the darkest points of your relationship and struggling in your intimate relationship, the last thing that you wanna turn to is someone who has every bit of their life dialed in and who just seems to have all the answers, right? (6:09) And so we had met with this couple and done a free relationship talks coaching call. (6:13) And in that setting, the female had come to us and kind of asked us for help and she was kind of dragging her partner.(6:20) And we often find that at the Conscious Couples Podcast where there's one partner that seems to be into growth, is growth minded, wants to do this quote unquote work and knows the value of it. (6:29) And then the other partner is like totally not aware of what the inner world game is, what professional and personal growth looks like, what is development in a nutshell? (6:40) And so usually that person has the fixed mindset.(6:42) So we get this couple and the whole session, it was extremely productive. (6:48) They were really receptive Bianca. (6:49) They were like very, very sweet and it was a good back and forth half hour.(6:54) The partner, the male was playing with Play-Doh, which I thought was really interesting. (6:59) And the whole time like was kind of off camera. (7:02) And so we obviously extremely trauma informed, trauma sensitive, make sure that the first call establishes safety and rapport like we're not gonna attack you.(7:11) We're not gonna like come after your throats in the first call. (7:14) We just wanna make sure that you guys know who we are and can get this feeling trust. (7:18) And he's playing with Play-Doh over there, barely responsive and the call.(7:21) And so we ended the session, it ended up being like they're like, this was awesome. (7:27) Like, thanks so much. (7:28) We appreciate you guys.(7:30) And we never heard from them again. (7:32) And so this is something that we saw again and again with couples who has a hyper growth mindset partner and a hyper fixed mindset partner. (7:40) And why am I telling the story?(7:42) Because what we ended up hearing a year later, I ended up hearing was that the male in the relationship said not only was that not helpful at all, they didn't change a thing. (7:55) Like all of this narrative of like expecting all of their problems to be solved in one half hour. (8:00) Meanwhile, he's playing with Play-Doh in the session and not actually engaging at all.(8:07) Like not trying to apply himself while the other partner was like really trying to like make this work and create a professional safe space for them to actually work on the challenges that to be very honest, if they don't get help, it's just gonna persist forever. (8:24) And it's gonna have some severe implications and already is quite frankly on their relationship. (8:29) And so what I heard later was that this individual, the male in particular felt extremely attacked.(8:36) And in sharing this story with other people, he's like, yeah, all they did was attack me for a half hour. (8:41) And when I heard that, I was like, whoa, that is so not what happened. (8:47) And so that was really interesting.(8:48) And I think a really good example of so many people will get into the arena of growth or of therapy of coaching or of any sort of getting better arena where they have the professionals that are right in front of them. (9:03) And they will feel that sense of attack and whatever they feel becomes their reality. (9:09) So their perception becomes their reality.(9:11) And what happens and why that's such a concern and why we wanna talk about this is because Alan and I were two professionals ready to help and we have a proven system to help couples flourish. (9:23) And the challenge becomes when you are someone (9:27) who has a fixed mindset, (9:28) you get into that professional ring (9:29) when you actually could make amazing change in your life (9:33) with those professionals, (9:34) if you simply only feel and tell yourself the story (9:38) that you were being attacked (9:39) when the reality is so completely different, (9:44) that is going to be a persistent problem (9:46) within your relationship, (9:48) within your own personal growth journey.(9:50) And so Bianca and I, as professionals who have seen this, not just in couple setting, but in family dynamics and personal dynamics and so many different dynamics, what do you actually do when you feel that sense of attack? (10:03) And like we said at the very beginning of this episode, why do we feel that way? (10:07) What is it that we would benefit from by responding a little bit differently as opposed to what this individual kind of did and shut down their system?(10:18) And just by the way, (10:19) they have not for a whole year even sought out help again, (10:23) because that person had used that example (10:27) as the evidence that nothing works, (10:30) when in reality, the truth is that that person (10:33) has an extremely fixed mindset, is incredibly insecure, (10:36) has limiting beliefs up the wazoo, (10:38) and those limiting beliefs (10:40) are holding their relationship back (10:41) from actually getting the help that they need. (10:44) And so let's talk about that.

Bianca Thomas

(10:47) So yeah, let's start there. (10:50) Yeah. (10:52) You've said this multiple times in these episodes.(10:57) And it was funny because I was on social media the other day and I was posting a video and I saw this video come up and it said, and I don't know the person's name, otherwise I would give them credit. (11:10) But she basically said, people think that therapy is like a doctor. (11:16) It's like a doctor's office.(11:17) You're gonna go in there. (11:18) They're gonna look you up and down. (11:20) They're gonna diagnose you.(11:21) They're gonna give you a prescription. (11:22) You're gonna leave and everything is gonna be better. (11:25) Yeah.(11:26) Therapy is like the gym. (11:27) And she said this, and I was like, oh, Emilia says this all the time. (11:31) This is awesome.(11:31) I'm glad more people are putting content out like this. (11:34) Therapy is not a doctor's office. (11:36) Therapy is the gym.(11:37) You only get results if you go in there ready to work. (11:42) Many people are so afraid of the work and what the work means about them that they somehow are the problem. (11:54) It's their fault.(11:57) They're a quote unquote bad person (11:59) or whatever their narrative is (12:01) that they've been developing over their life (12:03) that they now have these extraordinary protectors (12:07) to mask against that they are not ready, willing, (12:13) able or capable of accepting help (12:17) so that when anything, when the light gets shined on them (12:21) or shown on them in any regard, (12:25) it feels as though it is a massive attack (12:28) because in their psychological immune system, (12:32) they are not actually ready to hear the role (12:36) that they are playing in the problems that they are facing.(12:40) And what I find incredibly interesting is, and I don't know if you've seen this, but I've seen this so often. (12:49) It's almost always the person who's being harmed, which is the one that comes to therapy and is asking for help of how do I fix this and how do I get better? (13:00) Not the person who's inducing the harm.(13:03) The other partner or the other person is coming to therapy and it's like, what can I do? (13:09) I feel like a bad person. (13:11) I don't know what I'm doing wrong.(13:13) And as a therapist, you and I are just like, it's not you. (13:19) It's not you. (13:19) It's not you at all.(13:22) So for the people who might be in that position, I also have some clients who they're not, quote unquote, the problem, right? (13:36) But based on the challenges that they have experienced, they've caused problems in their own life. (13:44) So as a trauma response or as just not really understanding how to navigate the world, they ended up causing harm or causing problems.(13:55) And then whenever that light is shown on, they're like, oh, see, I knew it was all me. (14:00) I know I was 100% the problem. (14:04) Everything was true.(14:05) Everything everybody said about me was true. (14:07) And then that feels like an attack. (14:10) So even in that, if you highlight that, hey, the original part wasn't you, but the secondary part is, and here's what we can do about it, that starts to feel like an attack too.(14:24) So for both cases and in both scenarios, what can people start to think about or what can people start to do on their own accord so that it stops feeling as though it's an attack? (14:39) Because more often than not, it's not an attack, but it feels like it because there is this massive sensitivity to any indication that you're maybe not thinking accurately or you're not doing the most helpful behaviors or whatever the case may be.

Emilia Smith

(15:01) Yeah, so one of the things that I wanna raise here in this specific case, I wanna read a quote that communicates the concern because what essentially this is an example of is when you are with a partner and you're the person that's the growth-oriented person trying to bring them to a setting like this and trying to get help or get support or what can I do better? (15:23) More often than not, you can do better all you want, but that's not necessarily gonna change your partner. (15:29) The partner needs to be able to change on their own accord and affect change in their own life.(15:34) And a quote that I have in front of me, the true danger of coercive control is that it teaches you to control yourself. (15:42) Eventually the abuser no longer even needs to abuse because you have fully internalized the abuse abusing yourself. (15:49) And so this quote, why I put this here is because this often comes up in cycles of you will not go get help because the partner refuses to go get support.(16:01) So coercive control is sneaky. (16:04) And I wanna bring this in this episode because I see a lot of people experiencing and moving and shying away from the gym, for lack of better words, and mental health and intimate counseling and all of these areas that are quote, unquote, the inner world. (16:19) And there's patterns here.(16:22) And so I want to make sure that I shout out that coercive control that's very sneaky and the undercurrent of like, well, maybe we don't actually need help or maybe all of this effort's put in on the person who actually has the growth mindset. (16:35) But the person that has more of that fixed mindset that feels that attack, we wanna speak to them because at the end of the day, unconsciously you are operating from a coercive controlling standpoint with your partner. (16:47) And that's just totally unfair.(16:48) And so this might feel like attack right now for you. (16:51) And if that's the case, I really want you to take a moment and recognize that that feeling of attack, although the feeling itself might be valid, the reality of it is not. (17:03) Meaning, what do you do when you experience a feeling of feeling attacked by someone who's trying to help you?(17:11) I in this seat, Emilia Smith is trying to help you right now and trying to share with you something that most people probably won't have the courage to share with you. (17:20) And so if you're watching this, feeling a sense of attack from someone who's trying to help is a protective pattern and ultimately a shame response system that your nervous system has learned to use in order to keep the growth at bay. (17:37) Because like Bianca had said, when there's an opportunity to grow or to illuminate something that you could do better on, there's a deep belief underneath that a younger version of you probably holds where growth isn't safe, trying to do better won't actually result in anything.(17:53) I'm incompetent or incapable of doing so. (17:57) And so I'm going to develop these protectors that make sure that growth, professional settings, therapy, intimacy work, attachment wounding work, anything like that, that's out there. (18:08) Our culture, we are X culture, we don't do that.(18:12) Oh, well, I'm a man, I don't do that. (18:14) All of these narratives, it sounds like that. (18:17) But deep down what happens is that your nervous system feels a sense of shame and it binds to that opportunity of growth.(18:25) So it's called a shame binder. (18:27) And when there's an opportunity for you to grow, your nervous system says, hey, you're actually a bad person deep down and you're incapable of growing. (18:36) And so let's create these narratives.(18:37) Like we're Spanish, we don't do this. (18:41) We're Portuguese, we don't do this. (18:43) We're Lebanese, we don't do this.(18:44) We're white, we're Latina, we're whatever. (18:47) We don't do that. (18:49) Those are mottos to keep you stuck and keep you operating within a course of controlling behavior.(18:57) And so what can you do? (18:59) We first want to name, oh, I feel a sense of attack. (19:05) I feel a sensation that is disconcerting.(19:09) You want to name the emotion, but make sure that you separate the emotion and that emotional experience from the actual reality. (19:18) And this is where I'm going to offer a reframe. (19:21) Why might my nervous system be feeling attacked from someone who it is their role in this world to help people like me seek and transform through positive adaptive change?(19:36) What might I feel if I were to overcome open myself up to the fact that this person does have my best interests at heart? (19:47) How could it feel if I were to shift my nervous system into a state of compassion because a past version of myself either got made fun of, beaten up, bullied, abused when I tried to do better. (20:05) Those little micro shifts, they might seem really insignificant.(20:09) And to be fair, I know a lot of guys from specific cultures that would literally be like, you named the slang. (20:20) I'm not gonna do that. (20:21) That makes me an X, that makes me a Y.(20:23) I would never, she should just this, she should just that, pointing the finger outwardly. (20:29) But what if I were to tell you that everything that you deeply want and deeply crave when no one's looking, when no one's watching, which is that deep connection to your partner, which is that deep connection to your community, which is that deep emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, psychological intimacy to the people that you care about being that dad that you say you wanna be. (20:50) What if that was on the other side of doing what we're talking about right now?(20:54) And actually it's a requirement for you to get in this quote unquote gym again and again and remain open-minded to the fact that, hey, we all have struggles. (21:04) We all have areas where we feel shame. (21:07) And a lot of the time, the shame that is here in our nervous system is actually the shame that prevents us from having everything that it is that we want.(21:17) And so a couple of those, try those out. (21:20) See how it feels on your nervous system. (21:22) And trust me, the people who go from very closed-minded, coercive control, which is likely what you learned growing up so this is not a you thing, you learned that likely growing up, didn't just come out of nowhere, right?(21:35) What if you were to shift a little bit more to open-mindedness, a little bit more compassion for that part of you that is feeling like a big reaction around getting help? (21:46) And lastly, what else could it mean to go get help? (21:49) A lot of people think getting help equals weakness.(21:52) What if actually true strength, actual true strength is getting help again and again and again, developing that deep humility that is necessary for growth, change, and transformation?

Bianca Thomas

(22:10) Well said. (22:12) I have nothing to add. (22:14) Okay.(22:15) We also gotta wrap up, so.

Bianca Thomas

(22:16) All right. (22:17) My episode suggestion is 502, the number one antidote to shame.

Emilia Smith

(22:22) Great suggestion. (22:24) My episode suggestion is specifically for the partner, if you're listening to this, that is the growth-minded one that's usually coming to the gym, quote-unquote therapy coaching again and again. (22:35) This episode is for you, not your partner, not the person with a fixed mindset.(22:40) 423, you're not responsible for their emotions. (22:42) I do have to say that. (22:43) All right, so.(22:44) That's a good disclaimer. (22:45) With that being said, yeah, yeah. (22:48) With that being said, we hope this episode was helpful.(22:51) Please send it to someone who needs it. (22:53) And if you're that person receiving this episode, know that again, this is coming from a place of love. (22:58) People love and care about you.(22:59) So if you're receiving this, they want that deep connection with you. (23:03) And they're noticing that your nervous system has learned to keep this stuff at bay, which is preventing you guys from getting closer. (23:10) So know that you're deeply loved, deeply cared for, and we only wanna see positive change in you.(23:16) But. (23:17) Absolutely. (23:17) At your time, at your pace.(23:19) And usually that's, you know, it's before you feel that readiness. (23:23) So thank you as always for your interest in the science of holistic mental health. (23:27) If this is something that you're struggling with, please reach out.(23:30) And as always, keep evolving everywhere. (23:33) That's probably what you're saying. (23:38) We know firsthand how important it is to have a safe space with people who support and celebrate your evolution.(23:45) That's why we created our free live virtual event called Out of the Mud that we host the last Wednesday of every single month, 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, so that while you venture into new territories of your growth, you can get in a room with others who are too. (24:02) Extraordinary topics with evolved people. (24:04) That's what this event is all about.(24:07) What's great too is that you don't even need to have your camera or mic on. (24:11) You can just listen in. (24:12) Click the link in the show notes to register for the next topic to kickstart your growth.

Bianca Thomas

(24:17) Be on the lookout for our IG Lives that we host every Friday at 12.30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. (24:24) This is a place where you can connect with us live and in a fun, lighthearted way. (24:29) We are also in the process of rolling out group coaching and online courses, and these are sure to help you evolve into a greater version of yourself.

Emilia Smith

(24:39) If this episode resonated with you or you heard something you know will help you evolve, please share it with someone you love and care about, team members across the world, or someone who you believe deeply could benefit from joining this discussion.

Bianca Thomas

(24:53) This content is intended for information purposes only. (24:56) It is not a substitute for professional counseling or psychotherapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and does not constitute medical or other professional advice. (25:08) Names and identifiable personal details mentioned in respective podcast episodes and stories may have been changed to protect personal privacy and identity.