#507 | Breaking Down Patriarchy, Matriarchy and Our Role Within It

What if the beliefs running your life were never really yours?

In today’s episode, we take an honest look at patriarchy, matriarchy, power, money, identity, and the family roles that quietly influence how we see ourselves and each other. This is not about blaming men, dismissing women, or turning growth into a gender war. It is about noticing the narratives we inherited, especially the ones that affect our relationships, standards, emotional expression, self-worth, and ability to think clearly.

From unconscious family dynamics to the way power shows up in love and leadership, this episode opens the door to a deeper kind of reflection. The kind that asks us to stop defending the script and start questioning who handed it to us in the first place.

Here’s a related episode that builds on today’s conversation:
#478 | How to Advocate For Yourself - https://apple.co/4ndYjOC

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Show notes:
(2:04) Why this is not a bashfest
(4:12) Money, power, and inherited beliefs
(6:02) What matriarchy actually means
(11:54) The deeper problem behind power
(17:21) What family tables quietly teach us
(24:53) Seeing your role inside the system
(28:59) Questioning identity, marriage, and tradition
(32:30) Outro

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(Stay tuned for this coming Thursday’s episode!)

Transcript

Bianca Thomas

(0:00) Every single one of us, all humans, all genders, all people, are being negatively impacted by what we are going to refer to as the patriarchy. (0:13) Stick with us to understand why and how to navigate through this.

Emilia Smith

(0:18) And chances are your belief systems are supporting patriarchal ideals unless you are willing to examine them and not have them control you anymore.

Bianca Thomas

(0:30) Most of us are looking for hope, answers to the madness, certainty that we'll be okay, and someone safe to help guide us through the most challenging parts of our lives. (0:41) In a world that's changing and evolving every single day, where chaos, uncertainty, and cycles we never chose wreak havoc on our lives, it's easy to feel lost, hopeless, and scared of what the future will hold.

Emilia Smith

(0:57) Evolve Ventures is here to provide that hope, direction, and data-driven strategies to growth-minded human beings just like you every Monday and Thursdays, where each new episode is filled with vulnerable stories, interesting lessons, and simple tools you can use that will help you evolve into the person you were always meant to be.

Bianca Thomas

(1:18) My name's Emilia. (1:19) And I'm Bianca.

Emilia Smith

(1:21) And as the co-founders of Evolve Ventures, we are so grateful to be a part of your evolution. (1:26) Let's get into it. (1:27) Hey everybody, it's Bianca.(1:30) Welcome back, Evolvers. (1:31) It's Emilia here for episode 507, Breaking Down Patriarchy, Matriarchy, and Our Role Within It. (1:40) We are excited to share some rather very intentional ideas around this topic because this episode came from an inspiration from former male clients that we have and conversations that I've had with male clients around this topic.(2:04) And more often than not, I know that when people click on an episode like this, they will likely be looking for some bashfest of one or the other. (2:17) And that's not at all what this is going to be about. (2:19) Our intention is to help share what we as practitioners in the field understanding how, let's be real, these bigger concepts, these bigger social systems have a role within our lives.(2:35) Some are sneaky, some are very insidious. (2:37) And sometimes we end up stepping into roles unconsciously. (2:42) And how that impacts us, we only come to find out sometimes decades later.(2:48) So Bianca, I was catching up with a client of mine who is a male. (2:53) He's in his late 30s. (2:58) He is someone who had started working with me a couple of years ago.(3:04) And we worked together for like a year and a half, two years, I believe. (3:08) And this man's transformation originally from, I'm not going to actually say exactly where because I want to obviously keep it anonymous, but somewhere in the middle of the United States, let's just say that. (3:21) And in efforts to get away from his family, which he realized were an extremely patriarchal endorsing system, he had moved out to California and really tried to find himself, his soul.(3:39) And at that point, he, through his work, he had worked in a plethora of different industries. (3:47) But one of them being in an industry that brought him into working with men that had power, that actually did good with their power. (3:58) And that changed his entire perspective because for his entire life, his interactions with people of power or people with power, the way in which they would yield that power and wield it around was never really for good.(4:12) And he saw that. (4:13) And so there was this inner conflict that he came to me with when we first started working together, kind of talking about how deeply he felt internally developed this inner civil war with money and power specifically. (4:27) And when we talk about patriarchy, we cannot not talk about money and power because very much it is a social system where men hold the primary power, dominating roles of political leadership, authority and property.(4:43) And what is one of the biggest veins that allows all of that to exist and all of that to flow in and out is capital, is wealth, is money. (4:52) And so we started working on Money Wounds and we started working on his younger version of himself because he realized that the man that he aspires to be doesn't actually believe that men should have all the power. (5:09) And that type of reconciliation, inner civil war within him was really frightening and disconcerting because whenever he would go back and speak with his family, his father being kind of the man of the house, he was constantly confronted with the belief systems that he was raised in that he couldn't disagree with more, which was men are the men of the household.(5:33) Women do this. (5:35) Men don't do this. (5:37) Women don't do that.(5:38) Just the bigger belief system that allowed for specific roles within their family, not only for the mom and dad, but also for him and his siblings. (5:49) So he has another brother who pretty much just took after his father, who has those patriarchal ideas embedded, has them fully belief systems that it's like the water that he swims in now. (6:02) So over the years of us working together, what I witnessed and what I saw was this man who had a boy inside that was terrified of really standing up for what he believed in, which was the matriarchy, which the matriarchy as we speak about it, it's often understood.(6:24) It's understood and misunderstood, I would say, as women in charge and kind of just taking that wash, rinse, repeat, copy, paste women in charge, women in power. (6:34) But when we talk about matriarchy for the reality of it, it's an egalitarian system that focuses in on matriarchal lineage, meaning mother to mother to mother to mother, community cooperation and shared power over domination. (6:51) And so it's not the same.(6:52) It's not a copy, paste, just swap the male for the female. (6:55) And this is what he believed in deeply, helps. (6:58) And when he moved to California, he really saw this happening in communities.(7:07) He saw people who had this shared belief systems and he felt at home with those set of belief systems. (7:14) So every time he flew back to where he came from, he was like, Amelia, I got all messed up. (7:19) Like I, it was really difficult.(7:21) So working together was a fascinating study of men and how men are impacted by the patriarchy and men who are impacted by the patriarchy, how much to use his words. (7:33) They are brainwashed to support the belief systems that allow men having primary power, leadership, authority and property to continue. (7:47) And so what I want to share is that this man now, after checking with him, like I said, a couple of weeks ago, he is now working on a white men for racial justice program.(8:02) He said, thank you so much for the work that we've done together. (8:07) And I'm so grateful for the work because now I'm prioritizing racial justice over money. (8:17) And that couldn't feel more aligned ever before in my life.(8:22) And so I want to highlight this man, the work that he's doing, but also the bigger ripple effect of this concept of patriarchy, matriarchy and our role within it. (8:34) Because this one man and his partner, who last I checked in with her, she was on her own accord going to these conscious leadership retreats that really break down white female privilege, which I just think is amazing. (8:50) I think that that's so important.(8:53) So this couple is on their own accord as conscious leaders now making sure that they break down all of the gross, stuck belief systems that they were both raised with. (9:05) Now she was also raised in a patriarchal household. (9:08) So why I want to bring these two people to the surface and really celebrate them is because the work that now they're ripple affecting into the world is tremendous.(9:21) And I want us to think about and turn this into a point of reflection for all of us. (9:28) Because what the key point and the key intention for this episode is, is to highlight number one, what is the difference between patriarchy and matriarchy? (9:38) Not to have it be a bash fest at all, but to really come from a place of curiosity and (9:45) understanding of how that social system that reinforces these belief systems, how that (9:51) essentially programs our behavior to look for specific opportunities, shut down and put out (9:58) other opportunities, and on a social systemic standpoint, suppress certain people, encourage (10:04) other people to do certain specific things, and how on an individual level, all of us listening to (10:11) this episode, what that does to our behaviors, our unconscious limiting beliefs, and the automatic (10:18) negative thoughts that we have on the day-to-day.(10:21) One of the unconscious limiting beliefs that he had is, I'm not deserving of money. (10:27) Money is evil. (10:29) I will always be a slave to money.(10:30) And that belief system had him always in this tug of war with not only finances, (10:43) but also never actually finding and honoring the values that he deeply has to be the GPS (10:52) for what type of work he wanted to do in the world, what type of organizations he wanted to support, (10:58) and what places he invested his capital in, the money that he did earn, so that it supported (11:05) the values that he deeply has, but had to hide in the family that he was raised in. (11:11) So I think it's important to talk about, I think it's important to study, and I think it's important to reflect upon even when it's uncomfortable.(11:18) What dominations do we have in our belief systems from the patriarchy? (11:25) What, perhaps from a matriarchal standpoint, have we suppressed as a result of what we have socially experienced in a social system where men hold primary power? (11:41) Both women and men are wildly impacted, and very few of us have the courage and the bravery to reflect upon it.

Bianca Thomas

(11:57) From my understanding, I do not believe that the primary issue is that, quote unquote, men have power. (12:06) The challenge is that the narratives, beliefs, and ideas that are passed down, and what these men empower, what their beliefs, ideologies, life experiences have been, and the harm that is done as a byproduct of that. (12:29) So when a toxic man gets money and power, what happens when that's the case?(12:35) I have a lot of male clients that I work with, and they are not toxic, but they have so much shame around being a man because of all of the messages that are in this world about what it means to be a man, what men are supposed to be. (12:58) So you're getting two sides of the coin of men being like, and I'm going to use really crass, profane language, so if you have kids in the room, please maybe pause this, but I'm just going to repeat what these clients have told me in the stories that I've heard. (13:13) You're either a man who does all of the typical manly things, or you're a faggot, because if you do anything other than what we tell you you have to do, then you're disgusting, you're shameful, you're gay, you're a pussy, you're a little bitch, all of these disgusting, horrific messages that men are taught.(13:34) Then you have the other side of the coin of women who have been so gruesomely and tragically harmed by abusive, toxic men who follow these patriarchal ideas, mindsets, and narratives, what's happened to us as a byproduct of it, and then the way that women who experience that, or women who are afraid of that, then treat men too. (14:03) So you have these two ends of the spectrum kind of coming at a head and causing severe damage to both men and women. (14:16) Emilia and I, we were talking before this and really talking about the fact that when we talk about the patriarchy, we are not talking about men.(14:24) We are talking about abusive, harmful, destructive, patriarchal, over-domineering ideas and mindsets that don't allow people to be real people and don't allow all of us to work together holistically and collectively to make this society better for all of us to reach our potential and to have a better, higher quality of life and to help this earth be a better place. (14:55) So men are severely negatively impacted by it. (14:59) Women are severely negatively impacted by it.(15:02) And what do we do? (15:03) We attack each other. (15:05) All men are pigs.(15:06) Men are trash. (15:08) We don't need men. (15:09) The world would be better off without them.(15:12) F men. (15:14) There's man-hating now. (15:16) And then the men are like, okay, F you too.(15:21) Women are this. (15:23) Women are that. (15:24) The disgusting things that men will say about women.(15:28) It's just both sides are getting so badly abused from each other and from themselves that there's no cohesion. (15:40) There's no connection. (15:41) There's no community.(15:42) There's no ability to have any sort of reconciliation because if you do try to talk about this and a lot of the voices that are out there, the ones that are prevalent are the extremists. (15:57) You see like the tree hugging socialist lesbians who are like F men. (16:02) All men are disgusting.(16:04) They're all like, I'm going to burn our bras and walk through like radical. (16:09) And then on the other side, you have men like Andrew Tate who are preaching just disgusting, horrific messages and doing terrible things in this world. (16:21) So you only hear these two very extremes and it's like, what do I do with this?(16:30) So it doesn't give anybody a real voice to talk about it. (16:34) We don't have cohesion connection, the like collective consciousness and unity coming together and then the problem doesn't get fixed.

Emilia Smith

(16:47) Yeah. (16:48) There's a couple of things even that are coming for me, like memories that I'm flashing forward as you're talking about that. (16:55) I remember I had such a problem growing up with, so I grew up in a household that I know this is like a very simple example, but I think it's simple in a way that so many can relate to.(17:11) Growing up, we had a square or rectangular dinner table and who sat at the head of the table? (17:24) None other than my father. (17:26) And now I'm not making that wrong, but that's an example of the picture, the visual that I want people having in their heads.(17:36) Who sat at the end of the table? (17:40) Were there, and I remember so deeply having conversations with my mother and arguing in a way for how kind of messed up that was before I even really knew what it was. (17:54) Like it just, it felt so disproportional in terms of a power dynamic and I could feel that.(18:00) And I can see both sides now from this adult perspective. (18:06) It's like, he brought home the bread. (18:08) He brought home everything that gave us what we do have.(18:11) And I get that. (18:12) I get that. (18:13) That probably feels really good to kind of be at the head of the table and see everything and see your family wrapped around you on a table standpoint.(18:24) And again, not making that wrong, but that was a really big example of when we actually shifted over to and had a round table at our house instead. (18:34) That changed the entire family dynamic because there was no, quote unquote, disproportional seat at the table. (18:43) Everyone was kind of in a equal, quote unquote, position chair.(18:47) And that shifted conversation dynamics, that shifted the focal dynamics. (18:52) And when you think about the patriarchy, what comes to mind is these really long tables with everyone who's talking and facing each other. (19:01) But then there's one person at the end that holds a disproportionate amount of power.(19:06) You go back to shows and Netflix, you can kind of see that the dinner table is like that. (19:11) And where there's a round table, there is an obvious, so the long tables, long rectangular are dehumanizing because they already have embedded within the seat that you sit down. (19:25) Disproportionality is in power.(19:27) And so when you have a round table that humanizes everyone together, and that's why round tables are so powerful, even just in conversations, not just family, but when you think about this in an office setting or a cultural setting, roundness brings in more humanization and just the belief systems. (19:50) Bianca, I'm curious, growing up, did you have a round table, a square table, or a rectangular table?

Bianca Thomas

(19:56) Our family dinner table was round. (20:02) The fancy dinner table that we weren't allowed to sit on unless there was company there was rectangular, long and rectangular. (20:09) Who sat at the head of the table?(20:10) The men, obviously. (20:12) These issues are why I rebelled as a child. (20:16) I mean, I remember growing up, like verbatim hearing messages that my brother was allowed to do things that I wasn't because he was a boy.(20:26) And that was just that. (20:29) I rebelled like hell. (20:31) Are you kidding me?(20:32) I was enraged. (20:34) Because based on what? (20:37) Where are you getting these from?(20:39) Based on narratives that don't make sense anymore, given the times that we're in? (20:45) I mean, they never made sense, but there's all of these narratives and ideas and beliefs and assumptions and rules and attitudes that make up individuals, that make up families, that make up collectives, that make up cultures, that make up the world. (21:07) And we live in a world where you're not allowed to question it because if you do, you're somehow rebellious.(21:14) You're just not going with the status quo and you risk belonging.

Emilia Smith

(21:17) Yeah, right.

Bianca Thomas

(21:19) But what if these systems are wrong and they are wrong? (21:23) They don't make sense except for the people who are benefiting off of it. (21:29) And it's not as many, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but like there's not as many people benefiting from this as we want to believe.(21:37) There's a select few who benefit from this and the rest of us are all just fighting each other, trying to figure out what do we do in and with this.

Emilia Smith

(21:46) Exactly. (21:47) And I'm glad that you brought that because again, the disproportionality is engineered to benefit a very select few and dehumanize the rest. (21:59) And that is why the social system of patriarchy is not helpful because you can only do that for so long to where everyone eventually gets negatively impacted.(22:13) Eventually. (22:14) And not just the people that are dehumanized, but the people who do hold power. (22:19) And it's actually a really, in my honest opinion, one of the most ignorant strategies our species, and that's putting it nicely, one of the most ignorant strategies our species has ever come up with.(22:36) And while it might have made sense or helped to bring order or whatever the narrative is for a specific set of time, I think that that's a very narrow view to look at the bigger picture that always exists and the ripple effect that always has been in effect. (22:52) And when we really think about our roles in this as human beings, I wanted to bring in the table example because things as simple as that, you might have a household right now and you might be a listener that has children. (23:11) The literal shape of your dinner table, how and when you sit on it, whether you have guests and you can use it then or you don't sit there because of X, Y, Z, like those are the narratives.(23:24) Those are unconscious beliefs that you are pushing into your children that they are adopting that is going to serve our future, which desperately needs matriarchal systems. (23:35) Otherwise, we will have a societal collapse and a species extinction. (23:43) Like that, those choices right now, we don't have a redo.(23:48) So yeah, I'm for the round tables. (23:51) Yeah, I'm for systems that don't dehumanize human beings. (23:57) And yeah, I'm focused on lineage, communal cooperation, shared power over domination, because when you look at a bigger long term strategy, that is the long term beneficial outcome for not just our species, but all of the species that we depend on to exist.(24:20) So I think that in many ways, we can hold ourselves very powerless, or we can get triggered by this conversation and just shut it down. (24:29) What I would encourage and what I would invite everyone is to think about what is our role, again, within all of this? (24:35) What are the decisions that we are making maybe very unconsciously without this kind of lens on our decision making?(24:43) I know that there will never be a rectangular table in my household that is on purpose, that is conscious. (24:50) I know when I saw Alan cry the first time when he and I first got together, I know that the patriarchy told me that that was an unattractive male. (25:00) That was an unconscious belief system that almost prevented me from really seeing the beautiful heart and soul and emotional intelligence that my partner now after six years has, which is going to be beneficial for everyone that comes across his path, including our future children.(25:17) Like, those decisions are very conscious and intentional. (25:23) And was it difficult to look at that mirror and say that I was just on the brink of continuing a really toxic experience of demonizing men who cry? (25:35) Yeah, I was right there.(25:37) I was right there. (25:39) And what does that contribute in the world? (25:42) Men who harden their heart, people who think that crying is a weakness.(25:48) And I'm so grateful that I realized that that right there, that was patriarchy. (25:53) We don't realize how simple and how sneaky, like I said, insidious things like this come up until we're willing to look in the mirror.

Bianca Thomas

(26:03) I'm really glad you said that because people think that only men facilitate the patriarchy. (26:08) That's not true. (26:10) Women are facilitators of it just as much as men are.(26:15) Women who only want a guy who's over six feet, who makes six figures, who looks a certain way, acts a certain way, is a certain way, you're perpetuating the patriarchy. (26:26) Because the reality is, there's a lot of really amazing, wonderful men who do not meet those standards, who is being hardened and who are being harmed by women carrying those beliefs and believing that only a certain type of man is good enough or attractive enough or capable enough. (26:52) And I appreciate you acknowledging that, Amelia.(26:56) I'm the first person to admit to I fell into that. (27:00) I had that. (27:01) I wanted a guy who was over six feet, who was over 200 pounds of muscle because it made me feel dainty and feminine and safe.(27:09) I wanted a man who was dominant and whatever. (27:12) And I looked past other guys because of my own distortions, my own self-perceptions that I did a lot of work on and a lot of work through. (27:23) And I could have missed out on extreme opportunities because of that.(27:31) Yeah. (27:32) It's up to all of us, men and women, to identify the destructive belief structures that we have, to challenge them, to change them, and to help each other. (27:44) Shaming each other and berating each other and attacking each other is not the answer.(27:51) We need to work together and help each other so that we can all get out of these really harmful and honestly hateful beliefs, narratives, ideas, and ways of being.

Emilia Smith

(28:06) Yeah. (28:07) Yeah. (28:07) The root is not in love.(28:09) That's for sure. (28:09) Because if it were, many things would already not even be available. (28:17) Like the dehumanization.(28:18) It's like, oh, don't worry. (28:20) They'll figure it out. (28:21) Like, oh, just look the other way.(28:22) It's like, no. (28:24) That's wild. (28:26) I can't tell you the amount of whiteboards that Alan and I have had just in really hard conversations about like, okay, well, obviously he's my life partner, but our conversations around even just marriage have been like really on this topic of the whole last name thing.(28:47) Oh, well, let me just completely erase the last 31 years of Amelia Smith and then just be Amelia Lazarus. (28:54) Like what? (28:56) That's wild.(28:58) In what freaking world is that ever okay? (29:01) Right. (29:01) So now you, you see people, women that are now understanding little things like that.(29:10) And I'm just sharing that because those are little tiny conversations that we're having. (29:13) And I want to lead by example, because it's not like that was a heck no. (29:18) That's like, that's just not right.(29:20) Because I'm recognizing like, even in that, that's patriarchal systems erasing 31 years of a, I get the last name and whatever narrative we want to come from, but there's a whole identity affiliated with that. (29:34) And we're just expecting people to be okay with that. (29:38) Like, if you have a hard time with a lot of the things in the way in which they're done, you're onto something.(29:44) You are the person who's not asleep in life. (29:47) And I honor and I see you and I encourage you to, even as it's hard, because it's going to be difficult. (29:53) It's going to be uncomfortable.(29:54) That's actually to, to the client that I was speaking to earlier. (30:00) We can handle the truth, right? (30:03) Like that's a campaign that is right now in the work that he's doing with white men and racial justice.(30:08) We can handle the truth, meaning go towards that hard because it's where hard is, is where changes is going to happen. (30:15) But not if we don't have the courage to go through and challenge these belief systems and really recognize how destructive they've been for our systems, for our family systems, for so many other systems that, that impact us. (30:31) So with that being said, I just am grateful.(30:33) If you got to the end of this episode, I'm grateful that you were, you were with us. (30:37) I'm grateful that you were open to this conversation and I'm grateful for the contemplation that comes after this episode, which I highly encourage you to have. (30:46) And if you don't have circles that you can talk about this with in extensive degrees, I highly encourage you to get around the Evolve community because here we have real conversations that are raw and go deeper than the surface, far deeper than many people's consciousness will allow themselves to go.(31:07) So with that being said, my episode suggestion is Bianca's again. (31:13) Bianca?

Bianca Thomas

(31:17) 478, how to advocate for yourself.

Emilia Smith

(31:25) It's really important. (31:26) These are really important times to have really important considerations and really important contemplations. (31:33) And right now we're in a very fascinating time where we have so many different ways that are telling us not to think.(31:42) And as I'll quote someone in our movie club chat, I'd like to use my logical systems or critical thinking systems as a radical act. (31:53) It is now radical to think for yourself and think and contemplate, which I encourage all Evolvers to do. (32:00) So to that end, as always, thank you for your continued interest in the holistic science of mental health and wellness.(32:09) We encourage you to keep evolving, keep thinking, keep growing. (32:17) We know firsthand how important it is to have a safe space with people who support and celebrate your evolution. (32:25) That's why we created our free live virtual event called Out of the Mud that we host the last Wednesday of every single month, 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, so that while you venture into new territories of your growth, you can get in a room with others who are too. (32:41) Extraordinary topics with evolved people. (32:44) That's what this event is all about. (32:47) What's great too is that you don't even need to have your camera or mic on.(32:50) You can just listen in. (32:51) Click the link in the show notes to register for the next topic to kickstart your growth.

Bianca Thomas

(32:56) Be on the lookout for our IG Lives that we host every Friday at 1230 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. (33:04) This is a place where you can connect with us live and in a fun, lighthearted way. (33:08) We are also in the process of rolling out group coaching and online courses, and these are sure to help you evolve into a greater version of yourself.

Emilia Smith

(33:18) If this episode resonated with you or you heard something you know will help you evolve, please share it with someone you love and care about, team members across the world, or someone who you believe deeply could benefit from joining this discussion.

Bianca Thomas

(33:32) This content is intended for information purposes only. (33:36) It is not a substitute for professional counseling or psychotherapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and does not constitute medical or other professional advice. (33:47) Names and identifiable personal details mentioned in respective podcast episodes and stories may have been changed to protect personal privacy and identity.