#517 | Why You Keep Freaking Out About Money (And How to Stop)

Money is never just about numbers. It carries the beliefs we grew up with, the emotions we avoid, and the patterns we may not even realize we are repeating. In today’s episode of Evolve Ventures Tech, we look at why money can feel so loaded, even when the math seems straightforward. From spending habits and avoidance to self-worth, emotional regulation, and inherited beliefs, we unpack the financial freakout cycle with more clarity and less shame. Because sometimes money is not the real problem. It is the fear, protection, and old story running underneath it.

Here are related episodes that builds on today’s conversation:
#467 | What the Holidays Reveal About Your Relationship With Money - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/467-what-the-holidays-reveal-about-your-relationship/id1511831621?i=1000743786719
#465 | How Good Are You REALLY At Making Better Decisions - https://apple.co/44PNCtO

Learn more about:
🤝 Out of the Mud (OOTM) - "The Difference Between Avoidance and Self-Protection" - https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/IykObX8eR7ixJaQ-qqZogw#/registration

📆 Evolve Group Coaching - https://evolveventurestech.com/evolve-group-coaching/

📽️ Insightful films. Meaningful growth. Join our Evolve Movie Club - https://forms.gle/bBZUbFEeD2ijypCT7

🌱 The #YouDoYou Therapy Program gives you support when and how you need it. No pressure. Just real help. Start your free 7-day trial today - https://buy.stripe.com/fZe8Avdfx8bW9gcfZc

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Show notes:
(3:29) Behavioral economics and everyday spending patterns
(6:15) What your bank account may reveal
(8:27) How money beliefs shape behavior
(11:28) Money as a tool or coping strategy
(15:27) The uncomfortable first step with finances
(19:49) Using money to fix feelings
(23:12) Three prompts to expose money beliefs
(26:42) Starting with the next smallest decision
(29:45) Outro

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(Stay tuned for this coming Thursday’s episode!)

Transcript

Bianca Thomas

(0:00) I think the biggest thing that we need to understand is that money is a skill, just like everything else. (0:06) And once you get down the habits and the skills of it, it stops being so scary.

Emilia Smith

(0:14) True. (0:14) And you're likely broke or feel broke because of what you're contributing to the financial freakout cycle. (0:22) So if you think you're bad with money, let's dig into a little bit as to why.

Bianca Thomas

(0:27) Most of us are looking for hope, answers to the madness, certainty that we'll be OK and someone safe to help guide us through the most challenging parts of our lives in a world that's changing and evolving every single day where chaos, uncertainty and cycles we never chose wreak havoc on our lives. (0:49) It's easy to feel lost, hopeless and scared of what the future will hold.

Emilia Smith

(0:54) Evolve Ventures is here to provide that hope, direction and data driven strategies to growth minded human beings just like you every Monday and Thursdays, where each new episode is filled with vulnerable stories, interesting lessons and simple tools you can use that will help you evolve into the person you were always meant to be.

Bianca Thomas

(1:15) My name is Amelia and I'm Bianca.

Emilia Smith

(1:18) And as the co-founders of Evolve Ventures, we are so grateful to be a part of your evolution. (1:23) Let's get into it. (1:24) Hey, everybody, it's Bianca.(1:27) Welcome back, Evolvers. (1:28) It's Emilia. (1:29) And today for episode 517, why you keep freaking out about money and how to stop it.(1:38) Today, Bianca and I are going to be getting into the topic about money. (1:43) Now, before we get going, I just want to say I know that after speaking to so many people about the concept of money, wealth building and financials, it is likely one of the biggest topics that is really triggering for people. (1:57) And I just got off a phone call with someone who is in quite literally the financial industry last night.(2:02) And we were talking about how much it really does trigger so many people and understandable money, what it's connected to, what we the beliefs that we have around it. (2:13) It can really have a big, big impact on our lives, our opportunities, our education, so many different areas. (2:22) And considering it is the lifeblood of many cultures and the macro and microeconomic systems that we live in, work in, play in.(2:31) You can't go throughout life and not have some freak out about money unless you're extremely privileged. (2:41) And that's a whole other conversation. (2:43) So let's talk about why we keep freaking out about money.(2:47) What is it that that are contributing factors to that? (2:50) And most importantly, how to stop freaking out about money? (2:53) Because what I know after speaking with thousands of people at this point around the topic of money is that the more that you freak out, the more that you make it worse.

Bianca Thomas

(3:03) So let's get in. (3:04) Can you? (3:05) Yeah.(3:05) Can you dive in to how this is related to mental health and how money patterns and money beliefs are tied into our mental health? (3:17) So like money patterns, beliefs and behaviors.

Emilia Smith

(3:20) Okay. (3:22) I'm going to start with I'm going to start with what we oftentimes see. (3:29) So there's a thing called behavioral economics, which is essentially the probabilities of our behaviors in the marketplace.(3:39) So for example, when, where, how you spend money, you, me and everyone else. (3:50) And every single day people are spending money on something. (3:56) So let's say for example, every single listener I want you thinking about what's last thing that you just purchased.(4:01) I have it's primarily about money or just about human behavior in general. (4:07) So this is primarily about human behavior. (4:09) And I'm going to kind of share why that matters as it pertains to mental health.(4:13) Okay. (4:14) Something that happened recently with me, for example, something happened with our dog Bush Tucker Wolf, who is a Pomeranian Chihuahua Husky mix, Pomchisky and something that happened with his health. (4:28) So now we have to administer medication to make sure that he is doing better over the longterm while dealing with that injury and in efforts to help improve that process of administering medication twice a day to a dog that doesn't want it.(4:48) Essentially I had purchased a helper for that process. (4:54) So picture the dog version of peanut butter. (4:56) It's going to go down quick.(4:58) Okay. (4:59) So to that end, that was a purchase decision that I made and we can go into the why. (5:05) We're not going to though.(5:07) Ultimately, every single one of us has a recent purchase decision. (5:12) Maybe it's groceries. (5:14) Maybe it's that was a new pair of shoes, whatever the rationalization or the story is that we have about it.(5:20) That is what behavioral economics is trying to understand. (5:24) Now, how that pertains for mental health is what I mean by behavioral economics is you make a purchase, but there's always a reason as to why it might not be logical and rational and, you know, a ton of reasons as to why you made it. (5:38) You just might've liked this pretty candle as you were walking throughout TJX and bought it because that made you feel good, right?(5:45) It might actually might be entirely emotions-based and why you purchased what you purchased. (5:50) Now, what studies do show, and this is fascinating for all of us to be very mindful of, is that why we purchase what we purchase is an indicator of our values, of what we say we value, but don't. (6:06) And most importantly, our emotional behavior or emotional patterns that are connected to spending.(6:15) So a lot of people spend money to try to relieve themselves of a specific emotion. (6:21) And so our mental health, we can spot certain patterns if we just look at your bank account statements, if we just look at the amount of credit cards that you have, if we just look at your quote unquote, where you put your money.

Bianca Thomas

(6:37) So spending money is very similar to a lot of other behaviors that people might have, like eating, drinking, smoking, going out. (6:46) It's either something that you can use to run away from something or something you can use to run toward something. (6:54) So like, I want to feel good, so I'm going to buy this.(6:58) I want to have a positive experience, so I am going to go in this direction. (7:05) Did I understand that correctly?

Emilia Smith

(7:07) Beautifully. (7:07) And I have a client that's coming to mind that I also spoke to yesterday, which I also think is a good example to this, where she and her work friends who normally go out on a Thursday to happy hour with her entire office, she was telling me about how instead this time around, she had gone to the gym and she felt really good about that. (7:27) Right.(7:28) And that was really awesome. (7:29) And when I just look at this from an overlap of money, her mental health is so much better. (7:36) Why?(7:36) Because she's making better decisions and where she places her money or her capital or what she's investing in is a direct connector to either enhancing her mental health or the opposite, running away from her mental health. (7:50) Right. (7:50) So for example, that's kind of the two contrasts.(7:55) Right. (7:55) In the past, when her mental health was horrible, she was very much investing in the happy hours and it was a reinforcement of her behaviors at the time. (8:07) And she's since improved her mental health, which has also improved her spending and where she's investing her time, energy and money.(8:13) So although she's not freaking out about money, I think that those are great examples to help us understand the patterns of our mental health actually show up also in the patterns of our spending behavior. (8:27) So money, finances, wealth, poor, all of this ties to the second thing that you asked, the belief systems, the belief systems that we have about money. (8:37) So we have three types of belief systems.(8:39) We've talked about this on many episodes. (8:40) We have belief systems about ourselves, about the world and others. (8:45) So ourselves, others and the world at large.(8:48) Then we can break down belief systems into specific sectors, if you will. (8:54) So we all have beliefs about money. (8:57) For example, money is good.(8:59) Money is bad. (9:01) Money is evil. (9:02) Money is helpful.(9:04) We all have it. (9:07) Never get enough of it. (9:08) The one that I personally love evaluating with individuals, is money finite or is it infinite?(9:17) There's belief systems that we have about money, right? (9:20) And most of us have this belief about ourselves that we are not deserving. (9:26) And that's a belief about ourselves that intersects with the belief about money.(9:30) So if we have a belief that we're not enough or we're not deserving of good things, basic one, then likely that ties into the level of money that we are going to receive in the world. (9:45) So if I hold a core belief that I am not deserving, I'm not of value. (9:52) In other words, I don't deserve to be here.(9:54) I don't deserve this life. (9:55) I don't deserve nice things, all that stuff. (9:57) That's a sense of my own self-worth, a deservancy.(10:01) That then trickles into, well, because I don't deserve things, I'm not going to go for a higher job. (10:06) I'm not going to go for a higher paying career. (10:07) I'm not going to go for that education program because I don't believe that I am deserving of that.(10:13) And so it influences that belief about money, right? (10:17) Which is a subsector of a deeper belief about ourselves and about other people and about the world. (10:23) So it reinforces the behaviors that we do in order to go receive more money, reject money.(10:32) Like I know people that will and have not cashed in checks because they don't believe that they are deserving of that check for a graduation gift. (10:46) Like money is so wrapped in so many beliefs that we have about ourselves, about the world, about other people to the extent where now I have even heard some clients of like, I'm not going to use that credit card because of who it's connected to or what banks do with that money. (11:02) So I think what's important for all of us in this episode is to really consider how deeply connected, without even our conscious awareness, our nervous system is to money.(11:14) And when we freak out about money, how much that is actually an indicator of how little control and how little rationality we have when it comes to money.

Bianca Thomas

(11:28) I mean, like I said earlier, replace money with food, replace money with physical appearance, replace money with relationships. (11:36) Like money is a tool just like anything else. (11:45) And when we are using money to either validate or invalidate, to go toward or go against these different things and these different aspects of our lives, you know, we're going to end up with whatever the end result of that experience is.(12:00) So like if you have a belief, let's say that I believe money is infinite, but I also believe that like it should just come to me and I shouldn't have to work hard for it and I should just be given promotions and whatnot. (12:14) You're going to have a really detrimental experience if you also have a belief that like money isn't super important. (12:24) And what's actually more important is like things or experiences or things like that, then you are going to then use your money potentially in more unhelpful, irrational ways.(12:40) So like growing up for me, like money was something that was fought about a lot in my house, but it was also something that was very just stupidly used. (12:55) Like a lot of money went towards like clothes and accessories and the house and all of this stuff rather than it being like taught about and learned about and whatever. (13:10) So when that's the experience you have growing up, yeah, you're going to freak out when you finally have to take responsibility for your own money because it's like, where'd all the money go?(13:20) It's like, well, you spent it. (13:22) It's like, yeah, but I thought it was just going to consistently keep coming. (13:25) And it's like, no.(13:27) So most of us are freaking out about money because of the experiences that we had with it growing up, what we learned about it, what we saw. (13:39) And then the inverse opposite of that, what didn't we see? (13:44) What didn't we experience?(13:46) What weren't we taught? (13:48) So like I didn't start learning about money and any of these things until you and I really started pairing up and working together. (14:00) It was really devastating.(14:02) I had very low awareness of money and how money works and my relationship to money and the destructive beliefs that I had about it. (14:13) So what you can do, I want to make sure that when we're giving ideas and tactics on this, we make it as small as possible and as simple as possible. (14:26) The simplest way to start, and this is going to be so uncomfortable, check your finances every day.(14:36) Check your bank account and start tracking, start writing down because looking at it is one thing, handwriting it down is another. (14:45) Where did you spend your money all week? (14:49) Yeah.(14:49) Where did you spend your money? (14:51) Where did it go?

Emilia Smith

(14:52) Without judgment. (14:53) This is just awareness.

Bianca Thomas

(14:55) No, no, no, no. (14:55) You can judge it. (14:57) But like, where did it go?(15:01) Is half of your money going towards dine-in and going through the drive-through and subscriptions and all of these things that you don't need? (15:10) Well, that tells a pretty relative story about what your life is oriented toward right now. (15:20) Then what you can do after that is start eliminating some of the non-essentials.(15:24) Make it a really small practical tactical experience. (15:32) If you want to stop freaking out about money, just like if you want to start going to the gym and stop freaking out about your body, you do the small behaviors to teach you and then you start increasing and increasing and increasing your awareness and your capabilities and your skill sets.

Emilia Smith

(15:49) Yeah. (15:49) I love that. (15:50) And even that, Bianca, I think to some degree that might feel, depending on where someone is around this, that might feel really big.(15:58) I know, for example, (15:59) there's a client that comes to mind that I had in mind when I was thinking about this episode (16:05) where actually multiple clients there, there's so much irrationality and there's been no (16:12) contemplation around this area or no self-awareness or no tracking because even just observing or (16:21) tracking or like doing some of those things would give the feedback that is not like it's too big (16:31) and too unknown that it's scary.(16:33) So like a lot of people won't track their finances or look at their finances ever because again, their nervous system is just unconsciously avoiding it because of our unconscious belief systems. (16:44) And I have a couple that's coming to mind where the male whom I work with, he had this just general idea of how much money he needs to have in his bank account in order to feel safe. (16:56) And what I found is a lot of people have a specific number that they have come up with from an irrational, emotionally hijacked, financially freak out space.(17:08) And one of the reasons for that, and when we think about how to stop is because there's never been a non dysregulated observation about money, the belief systems and how money interacts and intersects with our behaviors. (17:28) And so when we were evaluating and Alan and I had done a Relationship Talks 55 where we were talking about like finances and couples and everything. (17:37) And that consistently is, you know, for people a hot topic.(17:42) But then when it comes to couples and money, it's a big thing that most people avoid ever talking about and ever examining because number one, we don't know how to. (17:52) But beyond that, even if we know how, we don't because all of this pain and dysregulation around it. (17:58) So with so many conversations at this point, I think those micro observations, how to stop freaking out about money to what you just said, it is in the small things that we that we think are so insignificant.(18:15) But really, we're thinking it's insignificant because there's an unconscious nervous system that wants to avoid it and is sneaky getting around you by producing that narrative of it's not going to do anything. (18:27) OK, well, if that's the case, then go ahead and track it. (18:30) No, the truth of the matter is that there's so much irrationality and dysregulation around that because there's been so many pain bodies and and people who have been hurt by money or jobs X, Y, Z.(18:41) Right. (18:41) There's so much nervous system and discomfort around money and no one's really taught you how to see it as a tool to to see it as something that can you can partner with rather than be used by.

Bianca Thomas

(18:55) So to that, I'm a majority of people are using money to fix their feelings. (19:00) Right. (19:01) Right.(19:01) Right. (19:01) Right. (19:01) There is a coping strategy.(19:03) I'm going to go buy this food. (19:05) I'm going to buy this substance. (19:08) I'm going to go buy this item of clothing.(19:11) I'm going to go buy a vacation like we're we're using because our parents did it and our friends do it. (19:18) And it's a very common thing. (19:20) And you get celebrated for it.

Emilia Smith

(19:22) Yeah.

Bianca Thomas

(19:23) Yeah. (19:23) Like we I think we did an episode on this like a lot of people get celebrated for the not so helpful bad habits because everyone is doing it. (19:33) So everyone is trying to justify their behavior.

Emilia Smith

(19:37) Yeah. (19:37) The bandwagon effect is really real when it comes to money, you know, and that's where the keeping up with the Joneses, all these conversations around like, well, if if they have that, I want that, too. (19:46) And it's like, if I don't have that and I don't use my money to go do that or be that or whatever, then I'm broken.(19:53) Then I'm going to be left behind. (19:55) Then I'm going to roll over and die. (19:58) Right.(19:59) Like it's a very evolutionarily speaking. (20:02) Scary mindset, but was even scarier from my perspective is that the freak out cycle continues. (20:09) Bianca, you and I had just done.(20:11) By the time we're recording in this, it will have been, you know, probably a month ago at this point. (20:15) But you and I had just recorded this past Friday. (20:18) It's Saturday when we're recording this are two hundred and fifty sec.(20:22) Two hundred forty second. (20:23) Two hundred fifty second. (20:24) Two forty two.(20:25) Two forty two. (20:27) My dyslexia is like two hundred and forty second. (20:31) Yeah.(20:31) Two hundred and forty second IG live. (20:34) And you had shared a story on that. (20:35) I'm not going to give details to that.(20:38) If you guys want to get if you want, go ahead and go to our Instagrams that that's there. (20:44) But you had given (20:45) a story about how you broke the cycle and the compound effect of that about freaking out about (20:54) not just money, but why bring that in is what money could get you and what that could bring you (21:02) again to fix the feelings component sentiment that you said versus what skill you're going to (21:07) develop by not actually spending that money, by not actually investing in what you had in your (21:13) in the eye of of that desire and kind of satiating that desire, that want, that need. (21:18) So I think that why I mentioned that and why I kind of want to close with this is that we're freaking out about money. (21:26) But what if it's the freak out?(21:29) Which is why we're not great with money. (21:32) What if it's our nervous system and the unprocessed BS belief systems that we have related to money, not invalidating the experiences that you've had, but what if it's the belief systems that we're carrying with us, that our nervous system is carrying with us to where it's setting the conditions up to where actually money is not being used as a tool. (21:57) Money is not, you don't have a belief system that money is water.(22:01) Instead, money becomes a barrier. (22:03) Money becomes, you become a slave to money. (22:07) Like all those things, all those negative automatic thoughts and belief systems are all in your subconscious and in your nervous system, hence why you're freaking out.(22:14) And that cycle is going to continue until you actually do something about that. (22:17) So how to stop? (22:18) I'm going to give three fill in the blanks and I want anyone who's listening to kind of answer this in your own accord.(22:24) So there's, I'm going to give you a fill in the blank and an option. (22:30) And in your mind, I want you to choose, close your eyes if you need to choose, whichever one comes up first as an example of an activity that you can do.

Emilia Smith

(22:39) Money is fill in the blank, finite or infinite.

Emilia Smith

(22:45) Can you define what those mean? (22:47) Finite means there's only so much of it. (22:50) There's a pie of it.(22:52) Be well, Bianca. (22:53) Thank you. (22:54) Excuse me.(22:55) Or money is infinite, meaning that there's no end to the amount of wealth and money that can be generated in this world. (23:03) So it's a zero sum game if it's finite. (23:05) And why I mentioned that is because we don't realize it, but we are not the possessors of money.(23:14) I know that's, it feels like it's coming out of anywhere, but most people think that, okay, if I have money, I need to hoard it. (23:22) So if I made, let's say for example, $6,000, I need to make sure that I keep it out of the bank account systems and keep it in my pocket because there's only so much in the world. (23:32) And this is my little piece of pie.(23:36) Or you have a mindset that is the complete opposite. (23:40) It's infinite. (23:41) So I could take that out of the bank account, but it's not really going to do quote unquote anything.(23:46) I don't need to hoard it because it's infinite. (23:48) Or I can spend it and do whatever I want with it. (23:51) Exactly.(23:52) Money is fill in the blank. (23:54) Next one. (23:55) Money is a fill in the blank.

Emilia Smith

(24:00) Some options I want you to think about. (24:02) Is it a tool? (24:04) Is it a barrier?(24:06) Or is it a vehicle that you can use?

Emilia Smith

(24:14) And then I want you to fill in the blank. (24:15) And I'm not going to give you an answer for the first blank. (24:20) This is a two-part blank.

Emilia Smith

(24:22) But I am going to give you a kind of guideline for this last one.

Emilia Smith

(24:30) Money comes blank when I blank. (24:34) So the first blank is direction. (24:37) To me, away from me.(24:39) Or other. (24:39) You can always give an other. (24:41) When I blank.(24:43) This is when you do something, perform something. (24:46) Money comes blank when I blank. (24:50) Those three things will help you begin to kind of understand what is your unconscious say about this.(24:57) And the guidance for those is what will help to pull out areas where you can actually begin to stop freaking out. (25:06) So for example, if you believe that money is a barrier when I said that second one, how to stop is going to be related to that belief system. (25:15) How can money not be a barrier?(25:19) Thinking about the equal opposite of that. (25:22) Obviously, that's going to be unique to you, your circumstances, your set of experiences. (25:26) And so where the custom work on this lies is you actually getting someone who understands this and works with you specifically in that.(25:34) But that's an exercise that I've done with so many people. (25:36) And it's amazing what actually comes from our unconscious when we fill in those blanks.

Emilia Smith

(25:41) So, Bianca, anything in closing?

Bianca Thomas

(25:52) Just be mindful that this is not something that comes naturally to the majority of us. (25:59) Like, the majority of us were not taught good money habits. (26:04) The majority of us were not taught how to be good with money, with emotion regulation, with distress tolerance, with projecting into the future and thinking about, you know, what am I going to need this money for in five years?(26:21) Like the grand majority of us were not taught this stuff. (26:25) So like, be mindful that you're not hearing what Amelia is saying and comparing to her being like, Oh my God, I suck because I'm not super capable yet, whatever. (26:36) We all have our own set of experiences, our own 1% life, but we can all get a little bit better.(26:47) So start where you are. (26:49) What is your current set of experiences? (26:53) What have those experiences taught you?(26:56) And then what's the next micro step that you can take after you answer those questions? (27:01) That's how we all get 1% better. (27:04) That's how we all go from where we are to where we want to be.(27:09) It's not these massive leaps that we all want to believe that it is. (27:13) It's what's the next smallest decision. (27:15) What's the next smallest thing that I can do that if I can do this over time, it's going to get me to a place that I would prefer to be at.

Emilia Smith

(27:24) Yeah. (27:25) I love that. (27:26) Nothing happens just as a one-off.(27:28) And so many people are so predisposed to think that it's a light switch. (27:32) I'm just going to get that one awareness. (27:34) I'm just going to get that one new thing to just totally flip the switch and have everything stop.(27:39) The truth of the matter is that it's accumulation of all awarenesses and any awarenesses. (27:48) Not just that, but the application of those. (27:50) So how well have you mastered some of these little things and these little belief steps and your ability to master, right?(27:57) Or to even just be aware of how your nervous system reacts. (28:00) When you go to pull out one card, do you start freaking out what happens inside of you, right? (28:06) I think that that's a wonderful place to start.(28:08) So to that end, I just remembered that I have a specific downloadable worksheet that I used to do with a lot of clients, actually, that if you want, send me an email at emilia at evolveventurestech.com. (28:25) We'll walk you through that. (28:26) That's a great downloadable asset that if anyone actually wants to do the work, that's a great, great area to start.(28:33) Okay. (28:34) My episode suggestion in closing is 467. (28:37) What the holidays reveal about your relationship with money.

Bianca Thomas

(28:43) 465. (28:43) How good are you really at making better decisions?

Emilia Smith

(28:47) Great.

Bianca Thomas

(28:48) Okay.

Emilia Smith

(28:49) If you're watching on YouTube, obviously those are going to be on the screen. (28:52) So go ahead and click one of those to continue your evolving journey. (28:55) Otherwise, as always, we appreciate you and thank you for your continued interest in the holistic science of mental health and wellbeing.(29:02) We're grateful you're here. (29:03) Bye, everybody. (29:03) Keep evolving.(29:04) Bye. (29:08) We know firsthand how important it is to have a safe space with people who support and celebrate your evolution. (29:15) That's why we created our free live virtual event called Out of the Mud that we host the last Wednesday of every single month, 7 p.m. Eastern standard time. (29:25) So that while you venture into new territories of your growth, you can get in a room with others who are too extraordinary topics with evolved people. (29:35) That's what this event is all about. (29:38) What's great too, is that you don't even need to have your camera or mic on.(29:41) You can just listen in, click the link and the show notes to register for the next topic to kickstart your growth.

Bianca Thomas

(29:47) Be on the lookout for our IG lives that we host every Friday at 1230 p.m. Eastern standard time. (29:55) This is a place where you can connect with us live and in a fun, lighthearted way. (29:59) We are also in the process of rolling out group coaching and online courses, and these are sure to help you evolve into a greater version of yourself.

Emilia Smith

(30:09) If this episode resonated with you or you heard something you know will help you evolve, please share it with someone you love and care about, team members across the world, or someone who you believe deeply could benefit from joining this discussion.

Bianca Thomas

(30:23) This content is intended for information purposes only. (30:27) It is not a substitute for professional counseling or psychotherapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and does not constitute medical or other professional advice. (30:38) Names and identifiable personal details mentioned in respective podcast episodes and stories may have been changed to protect personal privacy and identity.