Beyond the Wrench

ASE Acquires WrenchWay

• Jay Goninen

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Dave Johnson, President and CEO of ASE, sits down with WrenchWay co-founders Jay Goninen and Mark Wilson to break down the news: WrenchWay is officially part of the ASE family. In this episode, they cover why the deal made sense for both sides, what's changing (and staying the same) with the brand and product, and answer some of the questions they've been getting recently—including whether Beyond the Wrench is sticking around.


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SPEAKER_01

Make makes it just fit together like interlocking pieces of a puzzle.

SPEAKER_02

Beyond the wrench with Jay Ganinen from Renchway. Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Ganinen, and I'm your host. We've got a really, really special episode on tap today. By now, many of you know that ASE has welcomed Renchway into the ASC family. And with that, Renchway has officially become ASE Connects. In this episode, we're going to talk about how this partnership came together, why we believed it was the right move, and what it means for shops, schools, technicians, and employers, and where we're headed from here. Joining me today are my now boss, Dave Johnson, president and CEO of ASE, and now COO of ASE, Mark Wilson, uh, my co-founder at Wrenchway. So uh welcome to the show, guys. How are you?

SPEAKER_00

Great. Good to be here. Yeah, same. Excited, excited for this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. This has uh kind of uh for us been a long time in the works, but

Why the Acquisition Made Sense

SPEAKER_02

Dave, I'm gonna uh kick things off with you and just kind of get a sense as to why this made sense to you, why it made sense to ASE. I know you had followed what we had done at Wrenchway for quite a while, but then I I think as we started to work together, maybe some things became apparent as to uh to the fit. But walk me through that side of it a little bit. What uh what was the appeal on the ASE end?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that'd be good. Uh happy to do that. I was I was just thinking, you know, if I knew what uh the process entails of of acquiring and coming together with another company, I might have thought twice about this. Not because of you guys, just because of the process. It's uh uh it's a learning experience, we'll just put it that way. But um we've we we've gotten through that and it's uh and it's actually been it's been great. Um and as I look back, and and Jay and Mark, you guys have heard me say this a hundred times, but I it's it's so I think it's still so relevant. When Jay and I first met, and I think it was uh um it was at Apex or SEMA um a few years ago, um George Ahrens introduced us, and I've been looking at what um Renchway was doing, and uh I I told Jay, I said, I I love what you guys are doing, and I hate it. And uh I may have taken him a little off balance with that comment, but um I think he's gotten to know my my uh my personality a little bit since then. Um I can be a little silly. But what I meant by that was love what they were doing because it was it was connecting um the industry, working to connect schools and shops um and students and and bring them into into one place where where they can work with each other. And I I hated it because I'm like that's what ASE should have been doing years ago, honestly. And and it's not um it's it's just because of where ASE sits in the industry. I'll I'll say this frequently. We're not special um in and of ourselves. ASE is special just in that you had um you had the manufacturers, you had the dealers, um, you had um at the times large aftermarket um chains that uh instituted or created ASE as a as an organization. And yes, it was originally organized to um to enable certification and have industry-based certification instead of government licensure, which was the threat at the time. But as ASE has evolved and you think about where it does sit in the industry, where it serves everybody, there's things that um it it needed to be doing besides just certification. That's at the core, always will be. That's that's just key to what we do. But it opens the doors to do so many more things. And so looking at what Renchway was doing, um, looking at what we were doing, and then we got into the partnership of, hey, let's work together on some things. Um and uh at that time, I the the thought of you know coming together formally, we'll say, was not on my bingo card. But as we got into it and then just seeing what great operators um Jay and Mark are and their team and what they do, I'm like, oh man, we we we need this. And and I think, you know, and for them, um having having the ASE brand behind it, because it does mean something, um, was going to allow us to in a combined way that we neither of us could do individually, um create this this community, if you will, that really does connect individual shops, schools, um, everybody in our industry um and provide them resources that are going to help them move the industry forward in a lot of good ways. And so uh, you know, in a nutshell, that's it. And I'm just really excited to have both of you on. And like you said, Jay, Mark is our new um COO, which is very fitting. I'm so glad to have the have the help from my perspective with the talents that you both bring to the table. And Jay, you as our our VP of industry advancement doing what you do, like today. Um that is a talent that not everybody has. And so uh, and then you look at the rest of the uh um, I'll call it the old Ranchway team, um, just an amazing group of people that I'm thrilled to have um um become part of the organization and for ASE to learn from the things that you guys have already done and are doing, and yeah, to learn the other way as well and uh and go forward and uh and do a lot of uh stir up a lot of good trouble in the industry, if you will, and make some good things happen.

SPEAKER_02

You you talked in the first podcast that we did together, Dave, about blowing the dust off the brand. And it feels like there's been so much of that momentum behind ASE, especially uh maybe it's more of a recency bias, but there there have been so many great things that ASE already had momentum on. I think then the acquisition of us, and uh we'll talk about maybe a little bit the DOL grant uh for apprenticeships. The the just in general, there is so much momentum behind ASE right now, and it's really cool to see because that truly feels like that that dust is being blown off the brand.

SPEAKER_01

I'm glad you said that, Jay, because it's um one, it's it it is, it's been good to see that things have changed, and and I I take no credit for that other than trying to open up opportunities for all of us to say, hey, we're we're not we're not just ASC, the certification body, or the ASC Education Foundation, the accreditation body. We are ASE. We support the industry, and um, and there's a lot of good things we can do, and and just um and and kind of reinforcing this message of we don't want to be the DMV. And what I mean by that is DMVs typically have kind of a bad rap for all the bureaucratic administrative hoops you got to jump through just to go get a driver's license or a or a plate or a new tag. Um and none of that's intentional, it's just that as you look at, and to me it's a little bit of a mind shift. ASE is here not to to test and certify, we're here to enable success. That's really what it's about. And so that opens us up to so many more new things. And um, frankly, part of that getting some momentum was working with you guys early on, and uh, and then just all the the little things and people starting to, I think, recognize that hey, there's something different at ASC. Um, there something's changed and it and it feels good. And you're right, there is, and we do hope it feels good, but we now we're trying to take that into tangible benefits and results, and there's a lot more to come there. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um now,

Early Sense of More Than a Partnership

SPEAKER_02

Mark, I I kind of look back at our journey to where we got to or how we got to this point, and the one thing that kind of sticks out to me early on was that we had never taken kind of a competitive approach with I think a lot of partners throughout the industry, right? Like we're very collaborative in how we go about this. ASE was obviously appealing to us because, as Dave mentioned, kind of touched every area of the industry. Everybody knows within the industry who ASE is. You had kind of planted that seed early on of like this might be more than just a partnership, and that there might be more to be had here. Uh, what was appealing from from our end on the the ASE side and and maybe taking it deeper than more of a like a referral type partnership?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think to answer that, we kind of give a quick history on when we started, our our products were all about making it easier for shops to recruit and hire technicians, um, experienced and entry-level. We quickly realized we can have the best program in the world. There's just not enough of them out there, so we're kind of moving the deck chairs around, and that doesn't help anything really. And so our mission quickly became promote and improve technician careers. Uh, I think, I mean, this was now my third software startup, and I've never tried to reinvent the wheel or anything, but I look at it more as kind of filling in gaps that exist. And I think there was a gap in the industry for that mission that we had. Um, initially, I saw ASC as a partner, I saw them kind of as the testing, the credentialing. I didn't see them as what we want to become now, which is kind of a lifelong home for the transportation industry. That's kind of what we were doing. But then we started talking to ASC, and here comes this guy talking about knocking the dust off the brand and a fresh new look. And I mean, he he got me fired up and it opened my eyes to see ASC in a different light, um, and to see we could take parts, a majority of what we're doing, not all of it, because some of it we'll talk about later kind of will fade away. Uh, but to take the core mission critical parts of what we're doing under a much bigger umbrella. Like Dave said, everybody knows ASC. And if we truly want to accomplish the things we're set out for, I mean, Jay, you've dedicated your life to this industry. I'm relatively new. But if we if we want to accomplish that, it's much better under a group like ASC. Uh, one nonprofit, two independent ASC is not hiring techs on their own, um, brand recognition. It's it came, it started as a partnership and then quickly evolved into almost like a wish of man, together we could do this so much. But there were a lot of blockers in the way, like Dave said, uh buying and selling companies is is no easy task. Um, but then the more it went along, the more we realized we have to come together with this. This is almost a perfect synergy. Um, so I don't know if that's exactly Jay what you're looking for, but it it I wasn't looking for it originally, but I think I did see it early that if ASC was willing to kind of look at things in a bigger picture picture, maybe they always did, and Dave just verbalized it better for me at least than anyone else prior had, but I really got excited with Dave's vision of expanding ASC into what everyone up until this point has thought of it as.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I think that's a great answer. And and both of you kind of answered in similar regards to where it wasn't obvious from the start, but then as we started to work together, you saw that we complemented each other really, really well. And we're kind of this upstart newer company, ASC has been around forever. And so I think it it was maybe at first kind of even as people learned the news, like, oh, okay, like uh how is this going to work? And and we'll talk a little bit more about kind of logistics and behind the scenes stuff here shortly. But I think that was the coolest part for me is how organically kind of it happened. It wasn't forced, it was just one of those things where we had worked together and really started to identify those gaps, not only in the industry, but within each other's organizations and where we could help each other out. Uh Mark, one thing I'll give you a lot of credit for as we've grown wrenchway is that you do have a completely different mindset than I do. And we've talked about that in the past, but your ability to kind of block and tackle and kind of uh almost like that process orientation, but also just uh kind of organizing the chaos is something that I think really does help ASE in the long run. And then uh to have that vision of Dave, like that that's kind of that driving factor behind all of us that we have this shared passion and we really, really want to see the industry get to a better place, just kind of collectively all makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and Jay, if I can just chime in real quick. One of the I think tactical considerations for me when we started out early on, you may recall this, was as I looked at the AIC Education Foundation, what it was doing, doing great things out there with boots on the ground across the country, trying to connect, guess what, schools and shops and and students. And and that was good work being done, but it to me it was it was uh it was like still trying to use a shovel and a pick when there are um um heavy equipment um ways to do this with backos, track hose, and um bulldozers um that that wrenchway frankly brought to the table. And so, you know, just from a very practical standpoint, one of those synergies that to me was very very tactical and practical was just we had an opportunity to have a force multiplier, if you will, of the good things we're trying to do on the ground with a platform that already exists that essentially was doing the same thing and to bring that together. So just another one of those things I thought was visionary on on from from your standpoint, um, that is just um again may make it just fit together like interlocking pieces of a puzzle.

SPEAKER_02

Every shop, dealership, and business in our industry depends on great technicians. Between the technician shortage, disconnected school relationships, and lack of trustworthy workforce data, it makes it difficult for shops to plan, hire, and grow. That's where ASC Connects comes in. Created in partnership with Renchway, ASC Connects is a membership designed specifically for shops like yours to help you build a stronger technician pipeline by connecting with schools, empowering you with tools and data to improve your recruiting, retention, and performance. With ASC Connects, you can connect with local schools through school assist, start building relationships, and support the programs that educate our future technicians. You can also access verified data on technician pay, benefits, and labor rates through the industry data exchange so you know how your shop compares locally and nationally. Lastly, you can get proven strategies for leadership, employee development, and shop management through members-only guides, templates, and events. Join ASC Connects to strengthen your workforce and build a stronger, smarter shop. Learn more at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash shops or follow the link in the show notes.

What to Expect Moving Forward

SPEAKER_02

So we've talked about the why here a little bit. Let's get into a little bit of the how and what's going to happen moving forward. Mark, I'm going to start with you here. Uh talk to us a little bit about what's happening with the Renchway brand as we go through this transition.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so we are phasing out the brand. I mean, a big reason for us to do this is we we are proud of everything we built at Ranchway from a brand perspective and a product perspective, but it's hard to maintain two brands. I made that mistake in the past with prior companies, and we would be crazy not to lean into the ASC brand. So we are phasing that out over time uh from the brand side. From the product and team side, I mean, there wasn't a ton of overlap in a bad way. There was like synergies in a good way, but we are rolling in ASE Connects, which is our platform we've been working on together since January, um, right into the to the ASC wheelhouse. All of our team members are sticking around. Jay, you and I as co-founders, I know a lot of times people leave right away or things like that. We are committed to staying. Uh, there's a lot of work being done behind the scenes to integrate, but also to add to products, to resources, to other things we have. Uh, we'll have a lot of cool stuff coming up really forever, but even in the short term, yet this year and in this fall, especially, some of the product announcements coming up. Uh, so more to come on that. But from a brand perspective, you will see things like right now when our clients log in, it's ASE Connects now, and there's a formerly wrenchway below it. Our socials, same thing. It is a transition period. It's never perfectly smooth, uh, but but we're in the process of doing that and making sure we're we're all one team marching forward.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I think that's an important piece, right, Dave? That that kind of under one ASE umbrella for the greater good of not only the brand, but the industry as a whole, I think it causes so much less confusion when we kind of make that transition.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it doesn't funny, Jay, as as Mark was saying that, I remember back to some of our previous conversations, and I was actually pushing back a little bit because I'm like, hey, Drenchway brand and what you guys have done is fantastic. And I I don't want to lose that. And I said it probably several times, I don't want to screw it up. Um, but as we had more conversations, and and Mark is Mark is pretty convincing uh for those of you that haven't met Mark. Um and I saw the wisdom in what he was saying. It's like, yeah, you it I mean, we and I do, I'm I I love that we're keeping in there formally wrench way for now. You know, it'll it'll phase out over time, but I don't want to lose that because of something that was built, that was bootstrapped, that has turned into something really good. Um, and there's a lot of good um, a lot of goodwill towards that brand by all those who are on that platform today and working with the team. So so yeah, I it I mean it I I saw the wisdom in it that yeah, you know what, it needs to become ASE, but I don't want anyone to ever forget that it was Ranchway um and and what it was, and that we're enhanced we're we're you know, frankly, we're we're we're leveraging that and we're planning to expand upon it. That brings me to another thing. Um I'm glad Mark mentioned um the the people. Well, the the platform's great. Um a lot of great work's been done there, in all honesty. Um we could have created that ourselves. We could have you know created something different. I guess we would have been competing, and that that would be kind of dumb, but but in terms of the the technology, um that's something that could have been built. But for me, equally important was the people. And honestly, and we've talked about this before, wouldn't have done the deal if the people weren't coming with it. Um you know, not only you as the leadership, but everybody on the team. And so I'm just grateful that we've got everybody coming on. Um, because to me, that's what that's what made Renchway special um just as much as the as the technology itself. So um, yeah, that's you you guys are you guys are stuck with us as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_00

One thing I want to add.

SPEAKER_02

Go ahead, Mark.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, one quick thing to add to that. So we are rolling everything into the ASC brand, and from a people standpoint, we're we're thrilled to be part of the team. And one of the beauties of this is we we got to Dave you say we dated before we got married. We we were very close partners for the last couple of years in some initiatives we were doing together. But we won't ever lose our kind of scrappy mindset, our challenger mentality, kind of disruptor approach. Uh, we're we're not coming in to be compat combative with the team or anything, but I think one of the reasons you buy us is we do question the status quo. And for the industry, I think it's important for people to hear that is not going to change. And ASC, a lot of the most all of the team really has the same beliefs, maybe just haven't been able to challenge some things in the past and and still have to. Um, you know, there are a lot of structural things that you have to do. But I know when industry folks have reached out to me, that was one thing they were wondering about is oh, are you just gonna kind of be a yes man? And you had mentioned Dave, for those that don't know me, I appreciate the compliment. Uh I think it was a compliment about being convincing, but also for those that know me, like that's not me either. Like, I will always be respectful, Jay. I think you will as well. But we we truly still believe in that mission of promoting and improving technician careers. And I mean now. It's service professional careers because it's a little more than just technicians, but none of believe me, none of that is going to change. And you can you can record this in two years, three years play that back, but I can guarantee you that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I and I just want to add to that, Mark, that that is so true. Then and that was frankly, that was part of the reason. I I wanted to bring that in. Um, and and I like the way you said it. That our existing ASE team, that they know, you know, there's all these things that they see and want to do too, and yet they're trying to keep a machine running, if you will. Um, and sometimes it's doing this, I'll say introducing some new blood into the stream, um, actually enables them to open up. And so it's not a matter of, you know, well, these guys, the old stuck in their ways, people. That's not it at all. It's it's more about our maybe our environment has not been everything we'd want it to be where we're at today. And this is a way to just inject some of that extra energy into it and free people up throughout um ASE's existing leadership, right down to um um every employee to say, hey, it's okay to question things and look at them. And at the same time, you get to learn from the wisdom of what's already there, because there are some things that you learn that, oh, on the surface, that looks kind of silly or something. But as I've learned after being in ASE for three years, like some of that stuff that I thought was, oh, yeah, why do you need to do that? I learned that no, there's very good reasons you do that. But just being able to examine all of it helps you to um look at how are we going forward, what are we doing, and just by its very nature, um, it it just injects a little more um uh some different perspective. Actually, I think of it as reinforcements. Um, ASC is a has been a very shoestring operation. Um you'd you know, it our numbers are much smaller than you would ever think when you look at the size of the brand, which is another thing that impressed me when I came into ASC. I went from an organization, you know, I was at Ford for 32 years, uh, organization of over 1,200 uh employees globally. And I came into something that was um around 50. Um and and that and and and I and I coming into it, I thought, oh, there's you know, I'm sure there's two 200, 300 people. Well, it is a very small organization. I'm like, wow, uh that's even more impressive when you think about it. Um, what ASC has been able to do with with those very limited resources. And now part of this, part of this energy, frankly, is the people, right? We have more combined resources now, enables us to do more, free us all up. Um and and it's it's funny to say free us up. Frees you up in some ways to think about things, but it also just adds a bunch of work to all of us. I'll be honest about that. Um, I'm guilty. I've you know, we've been talking about this the last couple of weeks. There's there might be a little stress in the system right now, um, just with uh, you know, hey, we just we just acquired a company and uh and oh by the way, um we just got this Department of Labor grant, which we'll talk about. Um no small deal, just you know, um 25 million over the next four years that we're gonna be accountable for. And uh, oh by the way, we we just moved offices um, you know, and in the last month, and you know, just little things like that. So yeah, yeah, it but but it's it's exciting too. And and as you as you work through that, you come out the other side, and um, and there's just lots of good things to come that I hope my expectation and hope is that you, the you know, those who are watching this and and those who um observe and interact with ASE are going to say, wow, they're just taking it to the next level. Um and we have several levels to go. So looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02

And I think that kind of as I look at it, is a strength multiplier for everybody involved, right? So you you look at the internal ASE team and and uh already they've been so welcoming to all of us, right? And in kind of this what would be perceived as this awkward stage when you're first going through it. I couldn't feel more welcome to a team than I think I have with ASE. Everybody's been willing to go out of their way to help us understand kind of the operations. Dave, you you alluded to the fact that there are things that you do kind of question going into it, but then as you start to get more of an understanding, you start to understand the why uh behind a certain thing. So that's been very, very helpful. And just as I'm sitting through meetings, you're you're going through all the intricacies and everything uh that is happening, and and it is incredibly impressive that a team of that size is pulling off so much. And as you talk about all these great things happening, that's not even including the fact that you have a national conference happening next week and a new website that went out. Uh, it just there's so much that the ASC team has done, and it's so impressive coming in as an outsider uh to kind of see it up close and personal, but then to kind of see that future of what we've all talked about so far and really seeing it come to life and some really, really exciting things. I think Mark kind of talked about industry contacts and and kind of what we heard as a part of this. And I I I said this in a LinkedIn video a couple weeks ago, but you are a little nervous about what public perception is going to be going into a relationship like that. And you are, you know, you you you're just it's kind of a nerve-wracking time. This baby that you built is is now come something else or become something else. And and so um just to have that willingness of the ASC team to accept us in uh any ASC team member that's listening, we greatly appreciate everything you've done for us because that's made that transition so much easier. And uh yeah, so I I'll I'll diverge from that, but it was uh I did want to shout out the ASC team for being such uh such welcoming people to us.

SPEAKER_01

By the way, Jay, I was gonna say I'm writing out a list of things to share with the board next week because you're right, we have the our conference um also for the first time combining our summer um board meetings with the conference. So no stress and complexity there. Um and I think Jen Holland and her team are um losing their hair over it, but but we're gonna get through it. And and it's just that there's all these things that that we have going on. Um, you know, we the we launch new websites. We we have uh ASE licensed test prep. That we've just launched that, frankly, to put a spotlight on, I'll say those who are doing it right um in terms of test prep. I'll just be honest, not everyone is. Some people are using our name uh in vain, I would say, and we can't control all of that. So we're taking a step of establishing ASE licensed test prep partners, and uh, and that's coming along. Um, you know, we talked about the grant. There's just it anyway, there's so many things going on. Next week we'll have I think uh around 600 people attending our conference, which would be the largest ever, ever for us. So um, yeah, there's a few things going on. But yeah, so thank you for recognizing that and um helps to pinpoint some of the stress that I'm I I blame me for causing, but I don't feel that bad about it because uh we're seeing some good things coming out of it.

Mark and Jay's New Roles at ASE

SPEAKER_02

Now, Mark, I I want to talk about your role uh at ASC as we kind of go over. Now you we still have all of our responsibilities for ASC Connects, what was formerly Renchway, and building that out, but you are taking on a larger role in in kind of that that operations type of responsibility for ASC as a whole. Uh talk to me a little bit about that. You nervous about it, excited about it? Like I I just uh interested in your psyche as we go into uh into this new role for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely excited. I mean, my role really is to do what Dave tells me to do. Um partly true.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_00

No, but I'm definitely excited. I mean, I had mentioned before, I'm a startup guy, but I don't have any more startups in me. This is my last one, so I go into this, and there are challenges ahead. I mean, I'm looking at systems, I'm looking at process, all the nerdy stuff I love. Um, some great things at ASE, some also some things that frankly need some improvements, and we'll work on that together. It would be pretty boring, and I would struggle going into an entity where everything was just perfect. I mean, I'm not wired that way. So I'm I'm excited to uh go in to kick the tires to learn, not try to change anything right away, but to learn what's going on and then see what improvements we can make together. So maybe not the specifics you were looking for, Jay, but we've already identified quite a bit of things that I don't know. I'm I'm very excited. I've grown to love this industry, Jay. You've you've gotten me to drink the Kool-Aid on that side, but I always tell people, I'm I, as cheesy as it sounds, I'm a problem solver and I like looking at things differently. And like I said before, not just filling in the gaps, but trying to organize things better or trying to think of things in a different way. Um, and there's a good amount of that uh to be had with our existing ASE connects uh that we had ownership of, and then now some other things that I'll get to be involved with down the road too.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. And uh and I'll talk a little bit about my new role as well. I know I've had quite a few people reach out and ask, like, how does that change what you do? Uh Dave had mentioned it, but my new title is uh VP of Industry Uh Advancement. And uh what I really appreciated about ASE has been really their uh their willingness to let me kind of roam a little bit and and be able to talk with a lot of people uh internally with ASC, but then our our industry partners as well. Uh we've got a really cool program coming uh that uh is called the ASC Advisors Committee and something that we're doing some some really cool things, honestly, to get some uh some boots on the ground feedback of what we can do to uh improve as uh ASE as a whole, right? And what we can do to improve uh just everything. The industry, I I I obviously have a pretty big passion to see this industry get to a better place as a whole. Uh ASE having the willingness to allow me to kind of do some of that or continue that work is really awesome to me because here I am uh kind of working for this brand that I I really idolized growing up and I've known about it my entire life, and and it's always been kind of this this huge brand to me. And now to be able to do what I feel like is in my strength zone with a company that I've admired forever uh is is pretty pretty awesome. So I'm uh similar to you, Mark, very excited uh about really where this is going and kind of of what my path has been. I don't think I could have charted it out any differently. I know uh Dave, we've talked a lot about you know, sharing stories of people that you know might have started off as technicians and have kind of worked their way into different roles in the industry. And I've said forever that this industry has a really, really good way of putting you in the place that you should be. And I I feel like this is uh this is really kind of uh an at-home type of position for me where I feel really comfortable.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's cool, Jay. And and I was just thinking about that that idea of um you know, the we was we we've called it the career lattice. I I credit George Ahrens with that. Um whether he deserves it or not, I don't know. But anyway, we'll we'll give it to George. The the idea of a career lattice versus a ladder and and what the opportunities are. And uh, you know, for for Jay and me and so many others out there, you recognize, at least for me, it was all I wanted to do is turn a wrench. I I mean I would I would live in the shop all day and all night if if if my dad or my employers would have let me. I you know, and that was that was all I wanted to do. And then I came to realize, well, there's other things I want to do too, and you know, went and and um ended up getting a four-year degree, end up at Ford. And again, I I get taken down this, I call it a slow motion miracle. I have no idea how I ended up from this farm kid in middle of nowhere, Wyoming, literally, graduating class of 18 to running um, you know, a Fortune 5 companies, um fixed ops um support um business as their executive. I I don't know how that happens because all I wanted to do was fix cars. I didn't ask for this. Um but but the point is is what what I what the common thread I see in all of that, and it's and it's you don't have to be a a technician per se to do that, but I think it comes with the way that you're wired, is you have this uncontrollable urge, and maybe it borders on OCD, to fix things. You can't help it. You want to know how it works and you want to fix it. Um and what I came to realize was that that is uh that is a skill that is very transferable to multiple things within automotive and outside. And so to me, it's just this whole industry is is fantastic because of the way it so many people are wired in that way and the opportunities it opens up. And some people want to stick with fixing cars, trucks, whatever the case may be. Um no sin in that. That is fantastic and and a very fulfilling career. It's just knowing that there's opportunities that expand well beyond that. Um, you know, that and and for me, and I think um I I I like helping people. Um that that's fun for me. So two fun things that get to be combined fixing cars, fixing things, I guess I should say, and and helping people. You combine those two things, you can do a lot of things with it. Um, but yeah, it's it's just uh anyway, it it's an amazing, it's an amazing industry that we're all in.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, sometimes we need a reminder of that. And I think that's where Mark's made such a good home here as well. He talked about being that problem solver and wanting to solve problems. That's what our entire industry is built around, right? Is is at its core, we fix cars or trucks or equipment or whatever it is, and and it takes that kind of mentality of critical thinking, and and maybe not everything's going to go in a straight line. It might zigzag, and you have to be able to adjust with that. Uh so I I I know Mark, you've gotten used to that over the years with the industry, but uh I have to imagine, even like moving forward, that's something where you look at this at a grander scale from what we were able to build. And and we talked about it a little bit before, but there's a lot of opportunity there, right? Like I think not only with ASE, but the industry as a whole to kind of move the needle in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely. I mean, yeah, you're right. It goes back to what we were saying before. It's a continuation of the mission we had, just a much bigger microphone, if you will, or audience that we can, or umbrella we could do it under. Um, there's no shortage of things to work on. And this industry or any industry, I always say on the product development side, it's pretty easy to come and think about features or whatever that you want to build. By far the hardest part is prioritizing and figuring out which ones you start with and and what approach you should do, and kind of the whack-a-mole thing of you you fix this, but then that causes an issue over here. I I love it. And it's whether that's systems, people process, building software. I didn't think of it that way until Dave just was talking a few minutes ago. It's very similar, I think, to how you guys grew up. Just I wasn't fixing cars. It's a but it's all problem solving and just uh making improvements.

SPEAKER_01

It it well, it is just to chime in on that, I think you absolutely nailed it, Mark. And and then thinking about our frustrations, if you will, or or the challenges I see for us as we go forward. Um, and and this is you know for the audience and and probably for our for our own collective team, um, you know, to pack your patience uh on some things, because the the exciting part of all this is we've already been talking about so many things about, well, hey, here's how we can improve this, or we, you know, if we we now have these combined resources, we can do this and this and this. Um, and oh, there are these 10 things that we we need to fix. And you get a punch list that is just pages long, and then you're like, okay, but we don't have the hundreds of people and millions of dollars to go do all that at once. So the the frustration and packing our patience is going to be recognizing that, okay, there's these big strategic things that we're going to do, and that that's going to be our focus. We don't want to lose sight of that, and we got to keep going. Um, and then as we're going along, hopefully, and there will be, I've seen this before, there'll be some low-hanging fruit, if you will, on that punch list that we wanted to do that we'll be able to pick up and do it. And then there's some stuff that will be, and this is where my OCD comes in, that you'll we'll have to walk by for a while because the other priorities are are number one. And and I'm I'm kind of I'm a you know, I see a squirrel, I want to go chase it. Um, where I have to the the people have to help me with a little discipline there. And and that's you know, to me, that's the that's going to be the the creative tension, if you will, in the in the process here. That is a fantastic problem to have. But it it is one of those things I look at as it's it's the big opportunity, and it's also the big challenge that comes with with what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I I think that's why we're all so

Common Questions We've Been Getting

SPEAKER_02

excited. Now, I did have some quick hitting questions of just general questions we've been getting from all of our industry friends. We've touched on some of them, so I'm not going to hit those ones, but I uh I'll start with Mark. Uh, what will change about the product moving forward? And referring to Renchway, which is now ASC Connects, what's all in play there?

SPEAKER_00

I think the big thing for those that have known us in the past is our job board for existing technicians, uh, experienced technicians, I should say, that is being phased out. Honestly, we've started to do that in January of this year with the launch of ASC Connects. There are several reasons for that. I mean, one primary one though is we even though a job board isn't picking favorites and it's not helping shop A steal the tech from shop B, we as ASC now don't ever want to be seen as enabling any of that. Um so that that part will be phased out and to focus more on getting more kids in the industry to help with retention of the people we have to get better data. Uh, so those that have known us in the past, I would say that's the big thing that is going away. Everything else we do, it's going to be amplified. Um, so a lot of cool things coming, more resources, bigger brand. Um, all the stuff we do with schools will continue. We're actually adding student profiles in the fall, more to come with that. And then it's really tough to not mention some of the other additive things, but I'm gonna I'm gonna make the listeners wait on that. Uh, we're gonna have some announcements coming out of some really cool product uh-facing things. Um, so I would say 75% of it for the short term stays where it is. The 25% that changed, though, is that job board, which shouldn't be news to anyone. We've been phasing that out for what are we, middle of July, seven and a half months already. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Crazy that it's seven and a half months already. Uh, but yes, yes, that that's uh thank you for answering that. Um next question. Were you nervous about going to a nonprofit? Which is uh kind of a really interesting question. Uh it maybe one where you don't you don't think about it. We didn't really, I didn't really think about it as we were going through it, but it is maybe a little bit of a different uh different type of entity than maybe we had thought.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you and I had talked about that a lot. I mean, I it was different for me, I'm not gonna lie. Um my background, I've worked with a lot of other nonprofits in in prior lives, and it's not that different that people make it out to be. I mean, it's not like everyone's working for free. You still get competitive wages, you still have quotas on things, you still have metrics. Um where I'm not nervous, I get excited because I think as we shifted away from some of the recruiting things we're doing and more of the altruistic, like industry good, it probably makes more sense to be in a nonprofit on some of this stuff. So we can't have people wondering, well, you two own Ranchway, like you're profiting uh off of the good that you're trying to do. No, now we're a nonprofit. And that one, that never happened. Um, two, no one can say anything like that now. So I think it answers some no one really in, no one maybe they were behind the scenes, but no one pushed us on that in the past too much. But you always wondered if people thought that way, and so that's just a non factor going forward. What about you, Jay though? Curious. And I don't think you've been involved with it.

SPEAKER_02

Not other we all volunteer on different boards and things, but yeah, it at first was kind of a foreign concept to me. And I've never worked uh directly for a not-for-profit company in my lifetime. I'm on the board of a local hospital that's not for profit and like kind of understand the landscape a little bit, but still admittedly have a lot to learn in that regard. Where I I think from my standpoint, you alluded to this where we kind of naturally went that direction anyway, where it wasn't, I wouldn't say overly intentional, other than what our mission was to start with, of really trying to have that impact on the the grander scale of the industry. And it is, I mentioned it earlier, it kind of like organically happened. I don't know that it was a direct plan or something that we really were were aiming for, but it couldn't be a better fit. Like it was just uh it became really apparent that it was just a really, really natural fit and and allows me to do something that I've set out to do from the start, and that is to truly try to have an impact on this industry in a positive way that that I think can get everybody rowing in the same direction and and have the same rallying cry. And whether you're an OEM or a dealer or an independent repair shop or anybody in the aftermarket, like knowing like some of the technician shortage issues that we have, that's an issue for all of us. I don't care what part of the segment or what segment you are in in our industry or what subsector, like there's just there's so much value in aligning everybody. And to to me, the intrigue in ASE was as much that as anything, right? Of like, here's this one entity that touches every part of our industry. Everybody knows who they are. I think aligning with them allows us to continue everything that we had talked about from the start, and that is to try and do things for the greater good of the industry, try to promote and improve technician careers. And uh, we've talked a lot about the improved part for technicians because I think there's a lot to be had there in terms of educating shops, and we've got to work on retention stuff. I know that was a we always referred to ASE stat of the 42% of technicians that leave within the first couple of years. Like there, there's just so much to be had by working together and aligning everybody. And to me, that nonprofit or not, ASC was the one entity that could do all of that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, if I could chime in on that, on that nonprofit thing. Um, that was a foreign concept to me too when I came into ASC. And and I've come to realize it's like you said, it one you know that there's money involved. That that's you have to have money to to sustain your mission. So that that's part of the deal. So I'm like, okay, I I get that. Um and and there are a lot of great um nonprofits out there doing a lot of good things. But here's the thing that struck me about ASE that was unique in so many ways. I and I I I just call it a righteous cause. I don't know what else to cause it, what else to call it. The reason I say that is because it wasn't created by any one person who was trying to do some good, and and you know, and that was a way for maybe them to make a living too. And that's okay, right? That's all perfectly legit. I'm not not knocking in at all. There are a lot of people that have great ideas and and want to go do good, and they do it. The unique thing about this is is an entire industry created this nonprofit. Um, it it's it and it's and so it sits right there. And like that's why I say it's kind of by virtue of how it was created, it sits right in the middle of this industry and is established to serve the industry. Because guess what? If it doesn't, number one, Dave Johnson praise and all around for very long because the board is made up of all those constituents across the industry from independents to aftermarket chains to um educators to OEMs, um, you name it. And so if we're not, if we're not sitting in the middle like we're supposed to be, um things self-correct, if you will. And so in that way, it's a righteous cause. Now it's just about us amplifying it. And that's what I see about us coming together is just it's the next level of amplifying the good that we can do for the industry.

SPEAKER_02

I'm glad you said that, Dave, because that was one thing I was going to point out was that you you're you were new to this as well. And and I think you probably had a lot of the same viewpoints we did going into that relationship. So I think again, that helps maybe bring different perspective to ASC as a whole as well, some some outside influence of people that knew who ASC was and and maybe things that we could do to have a positive impact on ASC. So that uh that that's exciting for me. Um Mark, this goes back to you. What's the what's been the hardest thing to get used to so far? Uh as we're freshly into this new this new partnership or this new new role.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, uh a couple minor things. One is I just need to shut up and listen more. And like I said, I'm taking the approach. I'm not trying to come up with all the answers, just learn. Um, being on calls where it would in the past, maybe me, you, Jay, and two other people. Now there's 10 people on those calls. And um so that's not a hard thing to adjust to, that's just a reality of it. Um I I have strong opinions on things and um, you know, biting my tongue and learning. And then kind of a more funny one, or just getting used to Outlook again. I haven't used that in 15 years. Like all of my startups, the email systems and things like that have been Gmail based, and it's totally fine. It's such a minor thing, but I was like, Oh yeah, I kind of forgot about how those things it's a shift.

SPEAKER_02

That's been my biggest one. I when I read that question, I was like, that is that has been by far my biggest challenge. And and uh just so everybody at ASE knows, if you've sent me an email and I haven't responded, it's not because I I didn't see it, it might be because I'm trying to find the last email to respond to. It is an adjustment. We're getting there. Uh, but yeah, it it had been a minute since I've been on Outlook. So this is uh it's different.

SPEAKER_01

I wish I could use that excuse about slow responses to emails.

SPEAKER_02

Um last one for you, Mark, and then uh Dave will take a little bit of time to talk about the uh apprenticeship grant. Uh Mark, any regrets with Renchway? We're kind of closing this chapter in our lives. Like what what uh what regrets did you have?

SPEAKER_00

So one, you're gonna have to answer that too, because I'm I'm curious your answer. But oh man, um any startup founder would be lying if they don't say they have regrets. But also, I would like to say I'm I'm gray in the beard enough to know that that's part of the process. You you can't live that way. I mean, like my last startup, life-changing amount we sold for, they then took our product, rolled it into theirs. It probably was, I don't know, 20 or 25-30% of it of the total company revenue, and then they sold in total for about three billion dollars. Maybe should have held on to that one longer. Like, also, though, I don't know that we would have we would have thrown it that way. But I don't look at that as a regret because I I got a life-changing experience out of it. It made me better. Same thing with Wrenchway. Yes, there were some features of products that failed. Yes, we had some hires that didn't work out. Yes, we had some marketing and sales campaigns. I look back and like, oh man, that's almost embarrassing looking back. But it's the it's the Edison thing of like I tried 10,000 ways before I figured out how to make the light bulb or whatever. I just butchered that saying, but I think everyone knows what I'm referring to. Yeah, you they're all learning experiences. If I went to try those, I would have been like, man, we we had talked about this two years ago. I bet if we would have done that, we'd be in a much better spot now. Sometimes those failures, it's just good to get it out of your system and know, okay, we tried that, it didn't work. Um, so as usual, I ramble too much. Yes, there are minor regrets, but I look at it, I'm very thrilled with where we landed and happy with kind of the battle scars and wounds along the way. It makes us stronger as a company and as a person.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for for me, I don't know that I've got any true regrets about anything we've done. Uh, you know, there's things that you're gonna learn along the way, as you you talked about. And to me, those things we learned helped us get to a better position. Or maybe we used something and pivoted and it ended up as a better product product as a result. And uh, you know, I do thank a lot of our customers over the time that live through different iterations of the product, and and we've had some just fiercely loyal people to the brand and and people that have really supported us through the ups and downs. So I just uh want to really shout out those folks because they've they've been instrumental to everything that we've done, and even their feedback and helping us build a better product has been uh just huge. Uh I think my only regret would be not getting to the school stuff sooner, right? Because I think we we saw that need, and and really when you look at the technician shortage as a whole, and that's the supply uh in in a lot of ways to what we do, like our entire industry. And I I felt like they were largely ignored for a long time unless the industry needed something. So like I think maybe bringing more awareness to that earlier, uh, which hindsight's 2020, because I don't know that we would have done it as effectively had we done it earlier. So like it it's um that would be the one thing, but other than that, really don't have any regrets. Like as weird as it is to say, like, just uh, you know, it's very rewarding to me to to uh have helped build a company that is now uh something that is it turned into something, right? And I when you start a company, you never know if that's ever going to happen. So the fact that it's led us to here is just uh is is amazing. Um last question I will answer, uh, and then we'll shift over to Dave. Will the podcast continue? I've got that question a lot from from people, and uh it the answer is yes. We're we're going to continue with it. Um, I've got a prompt. Uh I uh people that listen to the podcast regularly know this. My uncle is actually the one that does the intro to the podcast. So, Uncle Dean, if you're listening to that, we need to get that uh updated to ASE. Uh, but yeah, we're gonna continue with the podcast. It's been a great avenue. Uh we're not Rogan type numbers by any stretch of the imagination, but it does allow us to have really good conversations. And and there are so many of you that listen to this that will see me at a conference or see me out and about and and uh and have a conversation with me about a certain episode we did. And sometimes I feel like the listeners have a better memory of what we talked about than I do. So it's uh it's been uh a really, really cool thing that we're we're gonna keep pushing on. Um

Inside the $25 Million DoL Grant

SPEAKER_02

last thing that I'd like to spend a little bit of time on here, Dave, is uh the Department of Labor grant that ASC received uh for $25 million. Uh we don't have all the details on this yet, right? But the one of the things we had a meeting about this this morning where we feel kind of our duty is to provide some level of transparency to uh to the uh the outer world, right? Like what's going on with this, and it's a heck of a process. So, Dave, I don't know if you want to bring us up to speed on on where we fall with things right now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and maybe I'll back up a little bit and say, first of all, going back to what we talked about earlier in terms of what's things looking and feeling a little different at ASE. Um, thanks to the efforts of everybody, including you guys, um, over the past couple of years, um we're we're we're on the we're on the radar in ways we hadn't been in before. And this gets back to how are we serving the industry? And um frankly, in my view, it's it's because of those things that we were doing to put ourselves out there. We've been out putting ourselves out there, frankly, with the government, um with legislators, letting them know we want to be a resource to you. We we hadn't necessarily been doing that before. Um, we said we were neutral, which we are. We you know, we're kind of like Switzerland when it comes to political things, um, absolutely. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be a resource. We wanted to be a resource and help. And and through all those interactions, um, I think that was part of what opened up the opportunity that we received with this $25 million grant. Um, you know, it's it's all it's all part of this larger strategy, and you'll you'll see a Department of Labor release out there $162 million across um five industries in the country that are considered critical where um more skilled trades um individuals are needed. Um I just want you to think about the fact that transportation was one of those sectors, it received one grant and that was $25 million, and it was here, and it was for our industry. So that's not to pat ASE on its own back. Uh what I hope it is, it reflects is that people recognize that we and where we represent the industry is is something's happening, help is needed, and we sit in a spot to actually help to enable this. So um, so yeah, $25 million, no small deal, largest grant for transportation service ever, um far and away. Um so there's a lot of work to do. So they said, yep, effective July 1st, the the the grant was the grant was awarded. I'll call it actually they call it an award. This is not your typical grant. It is a um it is a it's a it's a partnership, is really what it is with the Department of Labor. So they are funding it. I would think of them as think of them as a an investment banker, right? So not just the bank. A grant sometimes it's like the bank gives you the money, they say, you know, come back and tell us what your results were and give us what you owe us, or whatever that may be. In the case of grants, it's usually something they're trying to further. In this case, I'll call it an investment bank where they're actually invested in it. So they're not just looking for us to, hey, here's your money, go go use it, and then come back and tell us how you did. They're like, no, we we are partners in this, we're working with you, we're very interested in seeing um the effects of what we do together. And so that is a unique animal, even within the Department of Labor. And so there's some things we're learning together. Part of this process, also, there's been some budget adjustments that went with the the 25 million um and that we have to work through with the Department of Labor. And so there's this process of some things we need to do in the next 45 days to give them some information. Uh, and then um could be up to 120 days. And so we're kind of expecting around 120 days from July 1st. That puts you to first of November with all the DOL processes. Um, and yeah, there's some there's some bureaucracy to deal with them. Wonderful people that we're dealing with, but it's just the nature of the beast that we have to work through. And so, you know, it could be around end of October when we're really able to start executing because we really don't get any any significant funding to help to begin distributing um for sponsors and employers um to uh to assist uh these apprentices as they come on. So some of those things are are in flux. And so we're learning this as we go too. And and in the meantime, what you're going to see from Mike Coley from the Ed Foundation um leading a lot of this effort for us is um more information coming out about you know what what things will look like, what you might need to do if you're if you are um somebody who wants to be a sponsor, if you're an employer that's interested, if you're an apprentice or want to be an apprentice, um if you're a school, because the schools are very important on this whole process as well. And there'll be more information to come on that. In the meantime, I just encourage you to go to our um the ASCED Foundation site where there's more information on where you can submit to a um through a form to say, hey, I'm interested in whatever category you may be in. And that will allow us to capture that so that as we continue to learn and this unfolds and how exactly this will work, we'll be able to share that with you and and uh help you to participate. Um so um I'm forgetting the address right now, but anyway, look it up. Um ASE Education Foundation um and the the DOL grant. You Google it, you'll find it. So um we're looking forward to that, Jay.

SPEAKER_02

We'll get a uh a link to that in the show notes as well, so that we can uh get you directly out there. And then as we conclude this podcast, uh just want to say, Mark, thanks for for helping me build this thing. This has been uh such a cool, cool thing. And Dave, thanks for uh having the vision and and really uh the want to kind of have this relationship with us. I'm I'm so excited for what the future brings and uh it should should be fun. That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, did you know Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the Wrenchway team? Wrenchway is an online community dedicated to promoting and improving automotive and diesel careers. We help technicians find the best jobs to work at, and we also help auto, diesel, and CTE instructors get more support from local industry. You can learn more by visiting wrenchway.com.

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Jay Goninen

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