In the Loupe
In the Loupe
Leading Sissy's Log Cabin to New Heights: An Interview with President William Jones IV
Curious about what it takes to lead a family jewelry business to new heights? Mike sits down with William Jones IV, the newly appointed President of Sissy's Log Cabin. William opens up about his unique journey from the store floor to the executive office and shares the challenges and triumphs that come with guiding one of the most beloved jewelry stores in Arkansas and Tennessee.
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Welcome back everybody to In the Loop. What is up everybody? My name is Michael Burpo. Thanks again for listening to In the Loop this week. I'm joined by William Jones IV, and you might have seen a National Jeweler article about him being promoted to President of Sissy's Law Cabin, which is a jewelry store with six locations across Arkansas and Tennessee and they've been open for over 50 years and they really have established themselves as a frontrunner for jewelry stores that are doing things kind of the right way, and I wanted to ask him about what it's like to take over such an established company, but also what he's learned from having worked on the show floor knocking doors. Also what he's learned from having worked on the show floor knocking doors and how he continues to inspire his coworkers even during a change in leadership. It was a really fun conversation. I wish I would have had more time to get a chance to speak with him, but he's a very busy man. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show. Welcome back everybody. I'm joined by William Jones IV, who was recently promoted to president of Sissy's Log Cabin. They are a rather established jewelry store in Arkansas and Tennessee. William, how?
Speaker 3:are you doing today, man? I'm doing really well. I know I'm late for the meeting so I apologize for that, but excited to be here and excited to be on the podcast.
Speaker 1:So big news comes out. I mean this is on National Jeweler in a lot of different locations, because Sissy's is definitely considered one of those front-running companies. That is kind of pushing things forward. You were recently promoted or announced as the next president and you are the grandson of the original founder. Can you talk to me about what led to this moment and kind of what you're feeling around now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I mean. First off, I'll just say this is a lifelong dream. I've worked at Sissy's my entire life. You know we were fortunate enough and unfortunate enough to where it was. We all had to work. There was no other.
Speaker 3:Arkansas has kind of like a farming culture to it, and so I always compared it to like Sissy's Log Cabinets, like our farm, and if you've ever been around people on the farm, there's no hey when it's harvest. You're out there Like there's no question of what you're doing this weekend or anything else like that. And so where we are in South Arkansas, the economy really took a downturn about 20 years ago, 25 years ago and so it was never a hey, do you want to come work or would you like to come up to the store? It was hey, what time are you going to be there tomorrow? Or anything like that. So I've worked at the store my entire life.
Speaker 3:I grew up watching my dad run the store and Sissy and I've kept his president. He has like a stained glass name tag I guess it would be where he had it hanging on his door and it's been hanging on mine for the past 15 years. And so it's been hanging on mine for the past 15 years and so the really big deal for me to be acknowledged is that. But I was COO before he's CEO, so very similar position. I've been running the operations for the company for a few years now Not totally, but a good bit.
Speaker 1:I've got a good team of guys that I work with that we do the majority of the things and then over the last three or four years myself and the previous person it's just been kind of like a transition period going through there too. So yeah, I was going to say so. I do hear that rather frequently. The COO and the CEO work in lockstep together and then the president is essentially kind of the acting coordinator or voice to the rest of the company and public facing figure. Can you what kind of additional responsibilities come on when you do step in as president? Is it essentially, like you know, business as usual you are COO, you work and doing everything day to day, and then one day you become president? Or is there an additional responsibility that comes along with that role and then one day you become president? Or is there an additional responsibility that comes along with that role?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so in most companies, like larger companies, president and COO are about the same title Throughout the history of the stores I went through. I started a finance company. I worked in operations, I had a really heavy operations background and so basically the day-to-day workings of the company everything except for being the front runner guy. It was entailed in that, and so the biggest transition was going from you know, when you're in that COO position and there's a president position, is that it really gives a good opportunity to build a team operationally behind. And then the coolest thing now is that being president of the company, it's mainly just sporting overall culture, internal marketing, working with people, driving sales and driving sales is the biggest difference there. It's focused from operational efficiency to driving sales and hitting sales goals.
Speaker 1:Very cool. It seems like when the announcement came out about you taking over this leadership role, my boss, ross Cockrum, was very excited, because we've always looked to Sissy's. As you know, this company that has done it right for a lot of years and you guys have been in business for since yeah, founded in 1970. You guys have six stores all located across, you know, arkansas and Tennessee, but you guys started out in antiques and now you guys do jewelry. Uh, when was that switch? And do you guys still do any any antiques?
Speaker 3:so it's it's always a joke uh, with me and my brother, so we won't have antique furniture because we uh, we know we grew up so, uh, sissy sold. My grandfather was electrical, electrical engineer. Sissy did interior design. She sold vacuum cleaners, drapes, and she collected so much, so many antiques and so much furniture. My grandfather was basically like, hey, you got to get this out of here.
Speaker 3:So she rented Sissy's log cabin and when my grandfather moved they were divorced. He moved to South Africa and Sissy stayed there. My dad helped her work through that. He delivered furniture. I mean he always says they would go, buy, drive down to Dallas and buy it on Saturday and have to sell it by Monday so the check would clear. And it's funny, as my dad sold this like big antique roll top desk, which is a desk with the wood rollers that go over the top for security, and he moved it to the top of like a three-story building in Tomball, no AC, in the summer. He said he beat his hands up because that was always the rule is that your fingers will grow back but the furniture won't. So he comes back and he sells a one-carat diamond out of an estate and says I'm not moving any more furniture. And he really, really he and Sissy focused specifically on jewelry.
Speaker 3:Sissy still had the gift shop, still did a lot of antiques, a lot of other things. I mean I grew up pulling an enclosed trailer around the state of Arkansas and delivering antiques and doing shows and things like that too, and so just not to that level. By the time that I was, you know, five or six years old. It was extremely heavily based in jewelry. Wow, it was extremely heavily based in jewelry. Wow.
Speaker 1:And so the original location, I assume, was a log cabin. But now you guys have six storefronts. Yeah, absolutely, and a lot of our listeners are owners of single storefronts or single stores or maybe even two locations. But we do have a couple that have many locations, I think up to six or seven. Can you talk to me about the challenges that you might face as COO and now president of a company that has six locations, especially across state?
Speaker 3:lines. Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is that you have to. The hardest challenge is that every single store you open, every single person you hire, it takes you that much further away from the front door, and the basics of jewelry is trying to understand a customer at the front door, and so the further you are away from that, the harder it is to do that, because you have less input onto it, and so it was really cool to be able to see the transition. The entire company was that when it was a single store, the way you managed people is that you could be very trustworthy of what people said. You know, if somebody said, hey, you know I'll be at work tomorrow at 9.15, you would be there. You'd see them there at 9.15. You could see the front door, make sure every person's getting waited on. You can be in every single presentation.
Speaker 3:And then once you're open six days a week, it gets a little bit harder. And then once you open that second door, you really can't be there. And so from second to third store, you really have to evolve from like a player to kind of like a coach. And then the best advice I ever got was from a buddy in health insurance and he said you know you can be the most hyper-efficient, hardest working person ever. You can do the job of two or three people, but you can still only be in one place at one time.
Speaker 3:And you can do the job of two or three people, but you can still only be in one place at one time. And so with a family experience-based business, that's a very difficult thing to do is trying to offer that same level of experience and expertise and product knowledge and all these other things in multiple locations. Now we have 145 associates or employees total, and so you're talking about the phones have to be answered in a similar fashion, the doors have to be greeted in a similar fashion, every person has to know the story of sissies, the products, the knowledge, the manager presentations have to be the same. So you really have to go from you know understanding what it is a customer wants and then trying to replicate that, and especially in today's age, it changes every year and a half or two years too, so it's constantly evolving and trying to get that experience refined and make it more consistent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard one time I think it was a celebrity chef, it might have been like a Gordon Ramsay or similar, maybe even Anthony Bourdain. He was saying when you go from being a cook or a chef and you are doing the cooking, you can control that and you can rely on your own skills. But then when you start becoming a business owner, a kitchen owner, suddenly you are having to worry about is the chiffonade the way that I want it to be, or is the mise en place going to be the way that I want it to? Because in the end I'm not the one doing the cooking but I can control the ethos and the prep style and hopefully that will be the most impactful trickle down as possible, because in the end you can't stir all the soup vats and all the stocks and prep everything the way you want. It does require some semblance of trust. Has that been tough to kind of let go and relinquish that?
Speaker 3:control. And by the time that we grew so fast, from the time that we opened our Little Rock store, I worked here all throughout college. I went to school close to here to work here From there to three or four years that it was just. When you put yourself in a position like that, when you're going that fast, there's no, it's either sink or swim, and so it's not if it was difficult or not, it's, can you figure it out fast enough to where you don't go bankrupt and that's what? Uh, that's really how it goes, but I mean it's it's not so much.
Speaker 3:The trust is is, is it like motivating towards a goal together? And, um, you know, I've got a buddy, he helped me build the academy and that was kind of one of the things is that he came from, he worked with some larger companies and seen kind of what culture and aiming that culture towards a certain goal will help you do and just trying to hire passionate people through there. And then we really take the mindset of not trying to manage but try and motivate people to hit a goal, and so when you do that it's a little bit easier to track.
Speaker 1:You mentioned having like a shared vision and like a shared kind of view for the field. When you convey that to your employees, it's probably a little bit different than what is publicly shared to customers and the client base. How do those differ? Because, obviously, shoppers it's like oh, we want you to have the best experience and buy everything that you'd ever want and feel comfortable and trusting of us. What is the view for employees Are you setting? Is it differentiated in some way?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean somewhat, but I mean if you look at it, okay, so like if you take away, you know, a lot of people try and commoditize jewelry and say, hey, it's this color, clarity, it's this amount of gold, it's these things. We look at it more of like a representation of what somebody can't see, and so we take kind of a more of a spiritual look at it and like say, okay, this represents my personality. And then to me, I mean money and revenue is really just energy, and so the higher energy you can get a store, typically the higher volume it does as well too. And so it's a combination, because I mean, one thing that we're very clear on is that we're a sales organization, is that we want to do so many different things for the community and so many different things for our customers and all those things. But the number one thing that allows us to do that is sales.
Speaker 3:And so we were all really really big into sports all growing up. I mean indoor. We built an indoor. My dad built an indoor baseball facility behind the store in Pine Bluff. I mean that's all we did was we just practiced, practiced, practiced, and he was an unbelievable coach, and so it's really on. How do you make it fun, how do you make the goal clear and then how do you rally everybody around that to, to accomplish that goal in, you know, uh, a way that's high in integrity, uh honest, and it helps people grow as people as well too.
Speaker 1:Wow, Well said, definitely, uh, because motivation is so important and morale is so important, because you know we could have the best week of our lives one week. And then you, well said, definitely, because motivation is so important and morale is so important, because you know we could have the best week of our lives one week. And then you know what Monday is still coming and Friday is still coming. We got to keep grinding. But, william, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and I want to hear about your views as a next generation jeweler. So stay with us everybody. This episode is brought to you in part by Tailored Rings. Are your customers tired of the same old wedding band designs that just don't quite fit? Let me introduce you to something extraordinary Tailored Rings.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show. Welcome back everybody, still joined by William Jones, the new president of Sissy's Log Cabin. And William, I wanted to ask you a little bit about being a next generation jeweler. So when you talk about stepping in as the next generation leader for Sissy's Log Cabin, you mentioned how important it is for your business to have a clear understanding of, like your legacy and history, and obviously you got brought up with that you know as very important with your grandma. And I wanted to ask so you step in, is it about is it nerve wracking to take on that role, or is it about you know, is it more or less pretty straightforward you need to keep the wheels on the road and just keep pushing forward.
Speaker 3:And I think it's both. I mean you know the businesses jewelry's, outlasted governments, industries take on everything, and so you have that going for you if you really understand what's happened there. But then of course I mean business and the economy. In the last five years we've lived through really. I mean I don't know how old you are, but I mean for me the last 20 years have been crazy. So I mean it's never.
Speaker 3:We were talking about this the other day. It's almost. There's two analogies I use. It's like we go skiing and I don't know if you've ever ridden like a Walmart Schwinn bike. Yeah, once you get going over like 20, they start shaking. Yeah, it's like taking a Schwinn bike down like a double black diamond, and it's shaking and you're just trying not to crash. But then again, I mean you know it's, I've always looked at it and I've always been taught to my dad is that he who stays focused the longest wins. And so trying to tune everything out, and then you know most doubt doesn't really help you that much. And so always just trying to give myself like a good mindset and stay focused. I mean, even if we go down with a ship or anything else goes down, at least we're, at least we were focused going down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it's not a a lack of focus on your part. It's, you know, other external circumstances, but I mean speaking of which, um so 50 years since Sissy's opened, uh, the Julie landscape then versus now very different, and I kind of wanted to ask about, you know, what are the big kind of uh changes that you're targeting? Obviously, e-commerce wasn't really wasn't around back in 50 years ago, and even back when your predecessor was leading the company 11 years ago, e-commerce wasn't really as prevalent. What is it that you're kind of keeping an eye on, focusing on as you're under your leadership?
Speaker 3:I mean, it's all customer experience, and so it's your brand, it's your customer experience and it's your trust in your community and your engagement, and so those things don't change with technology and different things that have allowed us to scale that out further than the physical location, and so you can't see behind me, but I've got all of our new digital displays and different things like that, and so we're trying to reach more people and we're trying to give them a better idea of what it's like to shop here, what it's like to buy high-end jewelry.
Speaker 3:And then I mean, our biggest thing here is that we've got a show coming up, like you know, when you go to Vegas and you see like Le'Veon or Hearts on Fire and you walk in there is to bring that back to where a retail consumer can kind of experience that same thing, and so it's very much just the basics. And then you know, I look at it as such a small amount as done on e-commerce is that most businesses go out, not because, especially in Jordan, not because of lack of revenue, either because people age out or they make bad decisions, and so just not forgetting that, hey, it's a person and another person and figuring out that relationship between them. So it's heavily, heavily customer experience based, training based and then sales floor based. Well said, yeah, I wonder about that.
Speaker 1:and then Salesforce-based Well said. Yeah, I wonder about that, the training and just putting in. I always consider it like infrastructure and scalable processes because, if I've said this before but if it's someone's entire job to pull a lever, it'd be like that forever. But if you can find a system that doesn't require that lever to be pulled or it can be pulled by a robot, suddenly it frees that person up to do other things or high impact decisions and stuff like that. So I'm glad that you're at least kind of viewing it like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's not so much that, it's just the fact of like. I mean, if you're in jewelry you have a certain amount of turnover, you know there's a big cost in the building store growing. I mean, with the Academy we work with 170 different retailers and you see people stuck with that owner operator, two or three sales associates and they want to go over that larger mark but they can't because they don't have the floor, they don't have the operations, they don't have the ability, because to grow your sales you have to grow your people and you have to grow the amount of people that are there. And probably the biggest thing that happened to me was probably five years. I started doing, I was traveling between stores, I was doing all the training and I started doing video training. I had improv actors come in and secret shop. The stores Went through this whole thing. We started building out to where like, okay, what's the idea of how can we get somebody who's been with us six months to get the same level of customer service as somebody who's been with us four years? And that was the idea, because if you can do that, then you can grow more stores, because capital is easy to get. It's the people that are hard to get and build in the community. And so that started.
Speaker 3:But then I went and I'm not going to say the area I went and negotiated a building Unbelievable spot was exactly where we ever wanted to be. And my dad comes back and goes yeah, I don't want to do it. And I was like what do you mean? You don't want to do it? I don't want you to have to move up there, I don't want my grandkids to wear it from me and I don't want to take this much time to do it. And so at first I was pretty upset, I was pretty mad, but then it made me really build out other things in the business to where it was like, okay, if I can't go up there and do that, then how can we build out systems so that we can build? You know we can do that repeatedly, once every two years. Wow, yeah, and that's really what we're working on. So much is. We're a sales company that's trying to refine customer experience and make it to where we can hire and find better people, hire them, train them and then put them in front of customers.
Speaker 1:Is that the goal is to keep expanding and adding more storefronts at a reasonable rate? Absolutely, that's super cool Because I mean some people would see you know two or three or four, five, six stores, as you know all that they can manage, but to see that you are at six and still have an appetite for more is very inspiring.
Speaker 3:We're open to number seven in November in Fort Smith, arkansas. And then I mean I'll tell you this, if you want to talk about future generations of jewelers is that you know it's talking to people in private equity and different investors and things. It's amazing that you can create a business that does the volume that these stores do, that has almost no sellable value. It's wild that you know you can take a two or three million dollar gross and retail store and have a GOB sell and that be more profitable than selling that business. And that's really the issue.
Speaker 3:What you see with next generation jewelers is because people learn this business like touching a hot stove. They don't, uh, they don't ever think about it. If you see somebody who's really good in jewelry and you ask them, hey, how do you sell jewelry? They say, well, I just do what the customer wants. And, um, there's not really that teaching or that training to be able to come back behind there. And jewelry is a good enough business where you can make mistakes and still stay in business. You can work really hard yourself and make a really good living. But it's really hard to go from that next step of saying hey, I'm going to operate this like like a business, instead of just like a revenue stream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good delineation, like a business versus a revenue stream, because yeah, it does kind of make me scratch my head where it's like, oh yeah, a lot of the value in these businesses is locked up in the assets themselves. I mean, in the end you guys are selling expensive stones, expensive metals and things like that that are turned into you know a luxury good, but to I think it's the. You know the so is. So is any you know major company like Apple is just selling you know titanium and aluminum and and little bits of metals on the inside. But it's like the additional and the surrounding aspect of it with marketing and all the systems that require it to kind of elevate beyond that.
Speaker 3:So I definitely agree, and that's the biggest thing is like really understanding what the business model is in jewelry and then trying to build that and say, okay, how do I teach somebody else to come in here and operate this? How do I help them make a really good living doing this? And then how do I help others come in here and structure this whole thing too? Absolutely.
Speaker 1:William, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back, so stay with us. Everybody. All right, everybody. It's the second RJO show of the year. So if you're going to be at RJO St Second RJO show of the year, so if you're going to be at RJO St Louis, make sure you visit punchmarkcom slash RJO and make an appointment and stop by the Punchmark booth and learn all about our new digital marketing packages as well as our Antwerp marketing campaign. It's super easy, it's plug and play. It's a fantastic opportunity to drive some interest and awareness around your trip to Antwerp. So if you're going to be on that trip, make sure you stop by the Punchmark booth at St Louis and learn what's new. All right, everybody, and back to the show, and we're back.
Speaker 1:So, as we're just wrapping this up, william, I wanted to get your perspective on for the next generation jeweler. So we do have a lot of listeners that are either in the process of stepping in or they are the heir apparent to take on a business, or we have some people that are in the act of retiring and they are handing over their business or looking for an heir. Can you talk to me about what positions and what your role was at Sissy's that most helped you be prepared to step in now as president. Was it working the sales floor and making sure that you learned how to interact with customers? Was it in the management aspect, you know, learning how to manage people, or is it something else entirely?
Speaker 3:I mean I think it was honestly, it was the humbling fact of going and blowing off the front porches and the parking lot and cleaning people's jewelry. As younger I mean there's so many different things. I've got friends. I'm a little bit older now but I've got friends who are older than myself and they're like, well, my son's going to have to go work 10 years somewhere else before he comes to work with me, and I'm really lucky. I've got a really great friend group in Arkansas.
Speaker 3:I've seen really successful people. I've never seen that work out. I've never seen somebody leave a family business, leave the industry, and then come back years later and be able to run the business. They either come back in the business and they're terrible at it, or they come back in the business and they're terrible at it, or they come back in the business and it's a struggle, and then, like myself, you know 15 years later, however many years later, you know you really find your place in it.
Speaker 3:And I mean the answer is everything. I mean you know one one big thing is that my dad's always pushes a league from the front and that nobody's going to listen to you if you don't really know how to sell. You know, if you get behind a month and you can't go out there yourself and help people, then what good are you in all reality? You know, if you don't understand how repairs are done, how can you? You know, how can you really market, how can you build a brand, how can you train people on the sales floor? And so if you don't really completely understand the business, at least in some form, you know what's the saying Master of none and good at most, or something like that. I mean, that's really what it is, because I mean, the president title sounds cool, I guess, but I don't feel like anything's actually changed. It's mainly just hey, is the customer still coming in? Are they still getting an extraordinary experience? And then anything else that needs to be done is it getting done?
Speaker 1:Wow, really well said. Thank you so much, william, for your time. I hope that if you're listening, you get a chance to you know, kind of put those words into action. I think that it does require kind of an understanding in order to do uh, to be a leader for these businesses. You have to have some understanding of all of the uh, the components. But it sounds like you've, uh, you know, started it off from the very beginning as a, as a young child as well, and now COO president. How, uh, how exciting. Thank you so much, william, for your time. Anything before we close?
Speaker 3:Uh, no, man, I think it's just weird because, uh, you know, it's kind of humbling. Anybody listening to this is that? Um, if you ever see me in any of these shows or wherever exhibiting with academy, I always talk to anybody who comes up there. So if you ever see me, I always have my little frog pin on. Or now I've got a new one designed. It's a honey badger with a frog on it. Oh cool, the honey badger's so tough, you know, with with the. Yeah, you don't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, I'm, I'm always here. You know I'm out at. I think we go to 12, 15 shows a year. Uh, I'm always out and about.
Speaker 3:If you ever need anything, feel free to ask it's. Uh, I will say it's. It's very weird to get interviewed on a podcast for success. I want to make clear that everything's come from family and team before, and so that's. We've had a great team at Sissy's, we've had a great team at the Academy and you know we've put great people together that have had a common focus on building something that's extraordinary, and so thank you for having me on here. I hope to see you at somewhere out and about and, like I said, if anybody ever needs anything, my email's on the website. Feel free to reach out and, like I, said.
Speaker 1:If anybody ever needs anything my email's on the website Feel free to reach out. Amazing. Thank you so much, william. I'd love to have you back to talk about it after a year. Thank you so much, everybody. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week, tuesday, with another episode. Cheers Bye. All right, everybody. That's the end of the show. Thanks so much for listening. This week's guest was William Jones IV, who's the president and COO of Sissy's Log Cabin. This episode was brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me, michael Burpo. This episode was edited by Paul Suarez with music by Ross Cockrum. Don't forget to rate the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave us feedback in the text me link below or on punchmarkcom slash loop. That's L-O-U-P-E. Thanks. We'll be back next week, tuesday, with another episode. Cheers Bye.
