In the Loupe
In the Loupe
What If Your Store Never Ran Out Of Options ft. Nivoda
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Mike sits down with Andre Woons from Nivoda on what it takes to help jewelers sell from global inventory while keeping fulfillment fast, reliable, and margin-friendly. We also dig into why gemstones are harder to sell online, how in-store tools change the customer journey, and what comes next with finished jewelry and flexible credit.
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Welcome And The Big Return
SPEAKER_01Welcome back everybody to In the Loop. What is up everybody? My name is Michael Burpel. Thanks again for listening to In the Loop. This week I have on Andre Wounds, and he's with Novota. I had Andre on about two and a half years ago to talk all about what Novota was creating. Back then, they burst onto the scene with their diamond repository and their in-store uh mobile experience. And I wanted to follow up with him. It's one of our best performing episodes of all time. People really were interested in what they created. And Andre talks a little bit more about how he keeps pushing the envelope and keeps solving problems for retailers. It is a really interesting conversation. I think Andre is great and he's really leading a push that I think is important for a lot of retailers. So I hope you please enjoy.
Sponsor Spotlight PunchMark
SPEAKER_00This episode is brought to you by PunchMark, the jewelry industry's favorite website platform and digital growth agency. Our mission reaches way beyond technology with decades of experience and long-lasting industry relationships. Punchmark enables jewelry businesses to flourish in any marketplace. We consider our clients our friends, as many of them have been friends way before becoming clients. PunchMark's own success comes from the fact that we have a much deeper need and obligation to help our friends succeed. Whether you're looking for better e-commerce performance, business growth, or campaigns that drive traffic and sales, Punchmart's website and marketing services were made just for you. It's never too late to transform your business and stitch together your digital and physical world in a way that achieves tremendous growth and results. Schedule a guided demo today at punchmark.com slash go. And now back to the show.
What Nevoda Builds For Retailers
SPEAKER_01What is up, everybody? My name is Michael Burpo, and today I'm joined by Andre Woons uh with Novota. How are you doing today, Andre?
SPEAKER_02I'm very good. Thank you. Uh yeah, it's uh it's great to be back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you were our uh most popular episode of 2024 and our third most popular episode ever. Uh seems like people must really resonate with Novota. Can you set up for the people listening at home what it is that Novota does?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. So uh Nevoda is a B2B only platform, uh, and we help jewelers to uh sell faster, uh, fulfill smarter and grow their margins. So we have a uh marketplace for natural diamonds, lab brown diamonds, gemstones, melee, and soon uh finish jewelry as well. Uh and we allow our uh our retailers and our customers to source from all over the world in the most efficient uh and and cost-effective way possible. And at the same time, we have uh what we call sales enablement tools that allow them to uh convert customers at a higher rate by running a virtual sales model, whether that is purely online or in-store or a combination of the of the two.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's really exciting. And I didn't know about the finished jewelry. That's uh really exciting that's coming out right around the corner. Um when we last spoke, you used the term um diamond repository, and I thought that that was a really great term. Um the ability to source diamonds from a lot of different uh locations and and finding the right one, that sounds like it's increasingly important to the to the sales pitch um in store, especially. Um, is that something that you have spoken with with retailers about trying to fulfill?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um you as a retailer, you want to have exactly what your customer is looking for. And because diamonds and and gemstones are so unique, um, you have to make sure that you can cover the global inventory, and that comes from many, many different places. So we invested a lot in both uh our supplier network and also our fulfillment capability. And essentially it allows you to now, no matter where the stone is in the world, we are able to uh source it for you and get it delivered to you in a in a very fast uh turnaround um so that you never have to turn a customer away again.
SPEAKER_01Wow. I mean, it sounds like it it like it would be invaluable. Um when it comes to like the different specs for a diamond, uh there's only so many that you can uh control for, you know, I'm sure because you know, we always are looking for the upper range, but they go all the way down to um, you know, very included, you might say. Uh are you only trying to like have available or are you trying to have like the most available for like the best diamonds, quote unquote best diamonds? Or is there a value to like having the less high demand, less desirable diamonds as well? Is that also part of your uh your um pitch?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. It's it's whatever our customers and and ultimately the end customer is is looking for. So what we see is that of course there is a concentration and and and like some items are moving faster than others, like uh lab brown, especially, for example, three to four carriage range is now very, very popular, but that doesn't mean that the other sizes or specific colors and clarities are not being purchased. So we uh we very much believe that in order to be successful, we have to carry everything. So at the moment, we have around 1 million natural diamonds, 1.6 million labor diamonds, uh close to 50,000 uh gemstones and almost 2,000 different um SKUs, if you will, uh in uh in Melee. So it's really about if a customer comes to us and say and and they're saying, look, I want to buy this, but I can't find it on the platform, like our immediate action is to go and find it and add it to the platform because we uh yeah, we believe that you you need to have everything uh to be able to convert customers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And
Gemstones Get Serious About Color
SPEAKER_01when we last spoke, you were talking about how you were um uh about to start entering the color gemstone space and that that was of interest to you. It sounds like you're um you've achieved that. Can you talk to me about what it is that you guys have um have available?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. So we I think last time when we spoke, we were just like piloting uh it with a couple of customers and bringing it onto the platform. We've now significantly grown our available selection. And the difference with gemstones compared to diamonds is that a color is a lot more subjective, right? If you look at something that is red on your screen, your take on how red something is can be completely different from my uh my perception of that, even depending on the screen that you're using. So we really work together with our retailers and with our suppliers to um make sure that we have a standardized and uniform interpretation of color, uh, so that whenever someone is looking at a red Ruby that they know what type of red they're going to get. So it's a slightly different model compared to the diamond model, where with gemstones, we now have what we call curated inventory. So that is inventory that we have uh Q seed up front. We have taken the media of those gemstones so that it's standard across uh and and they are uh yeah, ready to be shipped um from our offices. Um that's also why the selection is a little bit smaller because we yeah, we we curate the selection to make sure that you only get the the best quality gemstones uh that you can that you can possibly have. Uh and separately we we do see that uh gemstones is is uh trending more and more. And a lot of our retailers are um looking for education and and support in how to make the gemstone sale. So we're also um uh launching or have launched uh our um gem club, as we call it, where we do webinars and educational content and and really yeah, help our network of retailers with like, you know, when customers are asking questions about about this particular uh type of gemstone, this is the story that you can tell, and this is how you can educate them about um yeah, about the value and and the uniqueness of it.
SPEAKER_01It's really interesting. So just to go back um one step, you were talking about uh color. And for example, when it in in um design and and painting, which is what I'm very involved in, uh, there are Pantone colors. So pantones are uh for people listening, um, are standardized color values where they are based on a formulaic approach to color, where if you were to print the same thing on a hundred different printers and you standardize and reset your printer to this standardized set, then theoretically, if you use this Pantone, then the colors should match up identically across all of them, which is useful when it comes to um transposing across different mediums, such as if you're using you know acrylic paint versus if you're using like um a gloss print. Um, is there is the approach you said you were trying to get rid of the subjectiveness of it all? Is that can you dive in just a little bit more? I'm very fascinated in like how you can standardize, yeah, this is a very red Ruby versus like um I don't know, a more I guess a more purple one or something like that. How does that work?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. I mean, it it's it's a super interesting uh challenge. And I think the the approach that you're describing is is part of the solution. So we we do try to, based on the images that we take, kind of uh also using AI, try to understand like what is the exact color profile. But what you can't really solve for, unfortunately, today is how that then gets presented on a screen. So the reflection of the screen, the brightness of the screen, um whether it's uh a MacBook or a Windows, like all of that has a has um has an impact. So I think it one is standardizing it on the input layer, but then separately we also see a lot of value in having what you would typically call master sets, where you have specific stones in a specific color that reference what you see on the screen so that you can have an idea of I'm seeing this on the screen, I'm seeing this in person, I know what I'm going to what I'm going to get. So it's uh yeah, it's a a marriage of online and offline that's um that is required with gemstone specifically to to make uh a virtual sale.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because if you can you were talking about controlling the the media of it all, and I do tend to agree with that being like probably the only foolproof approach where if you were to photograph a set of stones um across a variety of colors, but in the same environment, like the same temperature lights and the same um equipment in the same light box, all those things, then theoretically they should um have the same uh level of variable to it and they should match together. Um it just gets like you said, you can't really control a screen because like uh people are at home. If you like, for example, were to look at a color and then were to uh turn up the brightness up or down, it changes the the color value of uh of what's on your screen, man. And then when it comes to like how the value can be impacted, you know, thousands, I'm sure, dollars, uh depending on you know, a couple pixels. Yeah, that's a lot of uh lot of pressure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh so yeah, it's it's a super interesting problem to solve. And and uh yeah, to to get sort of back to your earlier question, we've made a lot of progress. We've grown our inventory from a few hundred stones to now a couple thousand in um in Jaipur, in India, in um New York, uh as well as in uh Bangkok in Thailand, where we're uh where we're opening at the moment. So um, yeah, it's a super exciting category and uh one that retailers are adopting more and more um uh across the board.
SPEAKER_01That's
Finished Jewelry And Where To Start
SPEAKER_01really exciting. Now, talk to me a little bit more about the finished jewelry. Um, this is one that probably a lot more uh competition because more people provide finished jewelry. Um what is the the specific, like I guess, problem that you were trying to solve by having again this you had originally called yourself a diamond repository and now being also a finished uh jewelry repository, how does that kind of fit into the equation?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we we've always viewed ourselves as a uh as a partner to our retailers, and and being a partner means that you help them with everything that they that they're doing and try to make that either cheaper or more efficient or give them access to more um uh more options to make it more accessible. So that's really what you know the number one question that we get from retailers all the time is like, okay, great, I love that I can buy the diamonds from you. I love that I can buy all the other products, but I'm I'm selling engagement rings or I'm selling jewelry, and I would love to buy that from you as well and to um take advantage of the of the ease of you know invoicing and shipping and and order tracking, etc. So it's really answering a question from from customers and and aligned with what we you know when when Dave and I started the company about 10 years ago, that was always the plan to to expand into into Finnish jewelry and and and to take uh to help with more of the products that that a retailer sells. So um we are currently piloting that with, again, a small group of customers, really making sure that the experience is top-notch and that uh especially on a fulfillment side as well, manufacturing jewelry is is uh complicated and there's a lot more that can can go wrong and that you have to account for. So we um yeah, we're we're doing that in a controlled way, but are super excited about giving that to uh to customers. Um and you know, whether it's engagement rings or tennis bracelets or pendants, um, we yeah, we we will bring that onto onto the platform over the next couple of months and uh and we'll continue supporting customers uh with that.
SPEAKER_01We'll talk about like a lot of leverage though, with you know having all the stones already technically, I mean, quote unquote, in-house, and then going into um the finished jewelry. It sounds like uh definitely a natural progression, but where do you draw like the the line and what it is? I mean, jewelry has so many different options. I mean, you have just the base, you know, eight main styles, and then you can go beyond that because there's variations of eight styles, and then suddenly you've got every type of jewelry imaginable, and there's this one thing I keep thinking about you can't be everything to everyone. How do you kind of decide? Is it just like the most popular asks, like you were saying? Like if someone asks for something and you don't have it, diving after that, or uh did you have like a more we're gonna go for the main eight ones or something like that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's a combination of both. I mean, there are things that people ask us about that they would love us to solve that uh we maybe you know can't do yet, or is is not the most exciting uh um uh from a value add perspective, or or is something that we do in the future. So it's it's a combination of uh what are people asking for and where do we feel like indeed that natural progression where we can add the most value. So what we also always um think about is indeed, do we need to be everything for everyone? And the answer is kind of yes. It's more about like what what specific configuration of Novota are you using versus us not delivering on a specific uh service or a specific capability. So we really see that the way that people sell and the way that people buy, uh, that is the determining factor in in what configuration of Novota they use, not necessarily the size of their business or their geographic location or whether they're selling online or or uh purely in-store. So it's really fascinating. And and um yeah, you you see the same kind of challenges and problems, you know, whether someone is running a single store or a chain store. It's um it's it's really uh there's a lot of similarities in that as well.
Logistics Promises Tariffs And Reroutes
SPEAKER_01The expansion uh process is not not for the faint of heart. It's it takes a lot of logistics. Sounds like a lot of your um your business strategy has to come down to logistics. Is that something I'm saying? Sounds like something that you're you're rather passionate about. You guys are a uh a global um global company with with many different locations. Uh we had specifically talked about uh last time about um you know managing multiple different uh locations. Is that something that you feel gets easier over time? Or this supply chain situations make things more complicated no matter what, and you can't really you just have to adapt.
SPEAKER_02You just have to adapt. I wish it uh became easier, but that's definitely not the case. I think, especially in the last uh the last year or or year and a half, I think. There's uh I I think ultimately what we do as a business uh is delivering on the promise that we make to customers. So we have to make sure that if you sell a specific product, that we get that to you in a specific amount of time, that we communicate it up front, and that allows you to serve as your end customer. So uh yes, we are a digital platform. Yes, a lot of the tools that we have are digital, but everything that is uh it's all underpinned by by our operational and fulfillment capabilities. So uh as we scale and as we add more complexity and more products, that is definitely uh an exciting challenge to solve for people. And yeah, especially in the last year, year and a half with things like tariffs and with um you know uh conflicts around the world affecting uh logistic uh lanes, it's been it's been interesting, but at the at the same time also a reminder of the the value that we provide because customers don't have to worry about it. Uh we take care of that for them and and we you know reroute, adapt, and make sure that things still make it from A to B in the fastest way possible. So it's uh it's a very exciting uh uh challenge and something that will always continue to improve. And I'm sure we'll we'll get new challenges thrown at us uh you know every every other month, every other quarter. Um but it's uh yeah, uh we we see that as a core part of of the business and and and what makes the engine run basically.
SPEAKER_01Ah, you know what? If you see it as an advantage and like uh as as part of your DNA, then I guess that's a healthier perspective than see it as just like a you know a big can of worms.
The In Store Showroom App Shift
SPEAKER_01So now, Andre, you were, I guess, had launched when I last spoke with you your uh mobile app and you were working on your in-store experience. Uh, could you talk to me like the unique, because they're not the same. Can you talk to me about the um where each one fits into the into the business experience?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. The mobile app is more what we would call a companion app to the platform. So it has the same capabilities in terms of searching and purchasing and order tracking and um, yeah, like viewing your invoices, et cetera, et cetera. The showroom app is what we uh have built for the in-store sales experience. So that app is used by sales consultants on the floor to use together with the end customer and to take them through the sales process that they have, uh, all the way from picking a, you know, the perfect diamond for them all the way to soon picking the perfect engagement ring for them at the same time. So that allows our retailers to sell from the global inventory that I mentioned earlier with the 2.6 or 2.7 million stones that we have. So together with the customer, you can go through a filtering process and find like the couple of options that fit their budget, that fit their wishes, um, rather than only being able to quote from you know what you have in in inventory or what you have called for on memo. So that's been um that's been a great product and something that our retailers really uh really love. Um and what's interesting about that one as well is that we're seeing usage that is kind of outside of what we originally built it for. And that those are always the the interesting things to follow. So one of the things that a lot of people do uh and want to do is actually share from that showroom experience a link that people can take home and look at after they have left the store as well. So it's really sort of bridging that purity website versus purity in-store with something that can be used um interchangeably and and uh at at different times as well. So uh it's been uh it's been great and definitely um yeah, uh a valuable tool for for retailers to make that that virtual sale uh possible.
SPEAKER_01It's definitely one of the trending topics that I've been following. I've been calling them a lot of times these iPad experiences where um they're you know it's bridging, like you said, bridging the online to the in store, what we call omnichannel. And there's some great builders and great um tools that are available out there. And increasingly we're finding that a lot of people, uh a lot of stores, when they go to remodel their stores, they are uh setting aside or like designating some very valuable. Square footage of their stores to like a coffee table sort of setup where there's a coffee table, two, three chairs sitting around it, maybe even connected to a TV that's above it so people can look on and see that things are happening. And I would that would be very um very interesting to me, would be to be able to sit down and it's not you're not just choosing from what's in the store, you're choosing from what's yeah, available in um, you know, thousands or millions of diamonds all around the world. Uh, that is very uh exciting to me. That sounds perfect.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and I think that that is the, you know, everyone wants to have a personalized experience when they're uh when they're going through uh the you know the the important process of whether it's an engagement ring or maybe a piece of jewelry. And and I think that's what enables that to happen. And yeah, we're we're seeing that more and more as well uh across the companies that we work with.
SPEAKER_01Now, it in addition to this, it sounds like you guys have a great infrastructure. You're working on finished jewelry, you're working or you're rolling out more and more diamonds, you have an in-store experience as well as a companion app. Um, it sounds like a full spectrum. Is there anything else that you guys are working on or anything you can tease for people that are listening that might be interested in getting into Novoda?
SPEAKER_02Um I think those are the those are the main things. Definitely the finished jewelry, like you said, it's uh it's simple to say, but there's a lot of uh different products within that. So that will uh that will take uh a lot of our focus and effort over the foreseeable future.
Credit Terms That Protect Cash Flow
SPEAKER_02I think the part that we see as the uh that completes the the offering is is our credit offering. Uh a lot of retailers um obviously cash flow is difficult, and and we have built an offering that allows you to pay in either 30 or 60 days, uh and be able to switch that depending on the order, depending on the value. And uh yeah, we're continuing to invest in that as well to bring more liquidity to the industry and and allow people to transact um in ways that uh are optimized for you know their specific business uh setup. So it's really the marketplace, the fulfillment, the uh financial element of it, and then the sales enablement tools that that are um yeah, the complete picture for us. Um and we we don't see it working if one of those are are missing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, because just in thinking of, you know, if you're doing this experience, you know, you might sit down with a customer and they might pick out yeah, an engagement ring setting and a diamond, and they might be coming from two different locations. It might take a little bit of time. Um technically considered like memoing them something and having them uh hold on to it for the for the time being and then um yeah, accepting payment later. I could see how that could be uh yeah, a cash flow crunch for uh a retailer if they're expected to pay everything up front uh before they take um take payment from the client. Um that definitely makes a lot of sense to have that that feature in there. That's great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. It's it's giving them the flexibility to uh to pay in in a way that works for their business. And and uh yeah, customers are very different with that. Some prefer to pay up front, some prefer to spread it out, some prefer to do it indeed in at a later time. And and we uh yeah, we try to accommodate that as as much as possible. And and yeah, to to what I said earlier, really be a partner there where we we understand that realities are are different for every company and and we want to meet everyone where they're at and and support them in the best way possible. So um, yeah, that that's that product uh looks very simple on the front end, but there's a lot of uh financial complexity on the back end.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, I can only imagine, especially when you're dealing with, you know, um payments across multiple countries, I mean, I'm sure hundreds of retailers. Uh that could be more than what I would want to get into, but it sounds like you guys are taking it in stride. Um, as COO and and a and a co-founder, um, is that are are you, I mean, the state of the global supply chain is just so complicated. Um, are you ambitious to keep opening up more more offices? Is that kind of like the end goal or where do you go from here? It sounds like uh you're already quite successful. Is it just more more offices or just doing more of what you're doing right now?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's not necessarily more offices. I think we always look at you know, where is the supply or where is where does it make sense for us to open uh so that we can service our customers better. So uh we are looking at some locations in the US outside of our New York office so that we can be closer to where our customers are located. We opened Thailand this year to be closer to the supply on gemstones. Um, so yeah, the the goal is not to have more offices per se, uh, but it's more about where does it make sense and can we deliver more value? And I think, you know, the the fact that it is difficult and that there are so many challenges along the way is actually the part that, at least personally, that's who that excites me uh in a very big way, because those are the problems worth solving and those are the things that um yeah, really do deliver the value for customers. So you always have to remind yourself of that whenever there's like a new change and and you're thinking, oh my god, how how are we going to deal with this one? But ultimately that's that those are the things that are well worth solving and and and you know solving big problems is is what gets me up every single day.
Where To Sign Up And Final Thoughts
SPEAKER_01Wow. That's very inspiring. I'm so excited to hear that, Andre. Um, if people want to hear more about uh Novota, maybe consider um signing up. Where should they go?
SPEAKER_02Uh they can go to Nevota.com um and yeah, um sign up forms on the website. And as soon as you sign up, you uh one of our team will be in touch uh to yeah, uh hear how we can best support you.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. And everybody, if you do that, maybe let them know in the loop sent you. Makes this look good. Uh thank you so much, Andre. I really appreciate your time. Uh I think we'll call it a wrap there. But everybody, I appreciate you all listening. We'll be back next week, Tuesday, with another episode. Cheers. Thanks. Bye. Thank you.
Rate Review And Feedback
SPEAKER_01All right, everybody. That's another show. Thanks so much for listening. My guest this week was Andre Woons, and he's with Novota. If you're interested about Novota, you can check them out in the show notes below. This episode was brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me, Michael Burpo. This episode was edited by Paul Suarez with music by Ross Cochran. Don't forget to rate the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and leave us feedback on punchmark.com slash loop. That's L-O-U-P-E. Thanks. We'll be back next week Tuesday with another episode. Cheers. Bye.
