(Originally aired 2022) Ever wondered what it takes to become a personal trainer? To help answer that, we recently sat down with fitness industry veteran, Rick Richey from the National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM), who enlightened us with his nearly two-decade journey in the fitness world. From his early days as a martial arts enthusiast through to becoming a key figure at the renowned NASM, Rick's insights provide an engaging and revealing exploration of the fitness industry. He reveals the ins and outs of personal training certifications, comparing his own experiences with the ACSM Health Fitness Instructor exam and NSCA content.
Nutrition and its integral role in fitness also takes center stage in our conversation with Rick. We discuss the nuanced approach NASM takes in teaching about nutrition, emphasizing that trainers should empower their clients with knowledge, rather than dictate their eating habits. Trainers, says Rick, can use a client-centric approach to help clients make their own decisions and live their own life. This empowering perspective is one that every aspiring fitness professional should take note of.
As we wrap up our enlightening chat, education becomes the focal point. Rick shares his views on the importance of teaching people self-efficacy and how to move on their own - a critical part of personal training. We also delve closer into NASM's accreditation process, providing a behind-the-scenes look at how fitness education certification works. As a special takeaway, Rick shares his mantra of being a lifelong learner in the fitness industry, a message that resonates throughout our conversation and indeed, throughout the fitness industry as a whole.
(Originally aired 2022) Ever wondered what it takes to become a personal trainer? To help answer that, we recently sat down with fitness industry veteran, Rick Richey from the National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM), who enlightened us with his nearly two-decade journey in the fitness world. From his early days as a martial arts enthusiast through to becoming a key figure at the renowned NASM, Rick's insights provide an engaging and revealing exploration of the fitness industry. He reveals the ins and outs of personal training certifications, comparing his own experiences with the ACSM Health Fitness Instructor exam and NSCA content.
Nutrition and its integral role in fitness also takes center stage in our conversation with Rick. We discuss the nuanced approach NASM takes in teaching about nutrition, emphasizing that trainers should empower their clients with knowledge, rather than dictate their eating habits. Trainers, says Rick, can use a client-centric approach to help clients make their own decisions and live their own life. This empowering perspective is one that every aspiring fitness professional should take note of.
As we wrap up our enlightening chat, education becomes the focal point. Rick shares his views on the importance of teaching people self-efficacy and how to move on their own - a critical part of personal training. We also delve closer into NASM's accreditation process, providing a behind-the-scenes look at how fitness education certification works. As a special takeaway, Rick shares his mantra of being a lifelong learner in the fitness industry, a message that resonates throughout our conversation and indeed, throughout the fitness industry as a whole.
Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined. I'm your host, Anthony Amen. Join me today as we take a dive into the world of health and fitness. We're learning to overcome adversity, to pick back first fiction and see health and fitness in a whole new light. Today, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to talk about something that we haven't talked about in over a year roughly, and I'm super excited to break down into personal training certifications all about the National Academy of Sports Medicine, or NASM as we like to call it in the industry, because we think we sound cool. So, without further ado, let me welcome to the show Rick Richie. Rick, welcome to the show man.
Speaker 2:Anthony, it's a pleasure to be on. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm excited man. We've tithed into so many different types of fitness topics and diet topics and everything far in between, so now we get to kind of get a breakdown of we're always like reference these sources like this is my source for this. Now it's like you are the source.
Speaker 2:I'm the oracle. Come to me. I will answer your questions.
Speaker 1:We don't have to reference anything anymore. It's like, yeah, I wrote that.
Speaker 2:So I did write quite a bit of the not quite a bit like a contributed author to several of the projects that NASM and the products that NASM has. So, from their CPT to their corrective exercise specialist, their performance enhancement specialist and their soon to launch certified wellness coach certification, which will be a game changer in the industry. But they haven't launched it yet. They just announced it at Optima this past weekend. So now that they announced it, I can actually announce that it's coming out.
Speaker 1:And you're hearing the first here.
Speaker 2:You don't know. That's right. Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell us just a little bit about yourself. Why did you get involved into a gig like working for NASM?
Speaker 2:So I actually started. I started training back in February 2002, which is going to put me in a few months in my 20 years in the fitness industry. So that's actually pretty hard to hear myself audible eyes, but I've been doing this for almost 20 years and I started working as a personal trainer and it was something I wanted to do. I grew up doing martial arts and my martial arts coach was a gym owner, a personal trainer and an incredible martial artist. So I was like you know, when you grow up doing martial arts, you want to be just like that person that teaches you. So I was like I want to own a gym and I want to teach martial arts and I want to be a personal trainer. So that's what. That was my plan, going into it. So I moved to New York City and I got a gig at a gym. I started working at a New York sports club, on 60 Second in Broadway, and then, like I was into it I'm not going to lie Like I was, I was into it, I wanted to be, I wanted to learn and the crazy thing is like while I was reading and studying, I read the ACE textbook because I hadn't bought a certification, I hadn't gotten a certification yet, but I heard that ACE was was good, it was accepted and it was inexpensive and somebody had a textbook, which means I didn't have to buy it.
Speaker 2:I was broke. So, anthony, let me clear this up. I was broke, so I read the text book cover to cover and then I'm about to sign up for the test and somebody at the manager at the gym says hey, we just did a partnership with an ASM and you can get a discount if you sign up for an ASM. And it was like 30 bucks cheaper and I had already read the ACE book like a textbook I've never read a textbook in my life and I was like 30 bucks cheaper and ASM. So I went and I bought it and I read another book from cover to cover and failed the test the first time through. So I thought I knew what I was doing.
Speaker 2:And then, like putting it into application, and I was like, nah, I guess I don't know what I'm doing and ended up going and doing it again and like working harder and being into it, asking people questions like why, in my mind, if you lift heavier, you get bigger, but why is there like a hypertrophy range that differs from that strength where you don't grow as much. And I would ask trainers that question. They were like I don't know, it's like the test to answer the question and then do whatever you want. And I was like, oh, like I don't want to be that trainer, you know what I mean. Like I don't want to be that trainer. So I learned more right, started studying and then ended up getting like interviewing and auditioning for a teaching gig for New York Sports Club. And at that time New York Sports Clubs actually Town Sports International, so Washington, philadelphia, new York and this one Boston, they 150 clubs total. And so just in the New York area, you know you're in the New York area.
Speaker 2:I think, there was like I worked at one oh you did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for me, dude, it was. It was there were 70 something New York Sports Clubs in the region and so they were hiring personal trainers all the time. So I taught the foundations workshops where people would come in. They'd learn program design, exercise, science. There was a business day that you'd come in.
Speaker 2:At first it was four days and then it got condensed down into like a day or two and at one point we started teaching NASM and NASM said oh, you want to teach it? Let us at least send somebody there to teach your guys how to teach our stuff, like this is how we teach it. So they sent in a guy who's not with NASM anymore, but he and I are still friends, named Rob Rettman, and Rob came in and we all, like he taught us, we would get back up, we would reteach, and at one point Rob just pulls me aside and he was like you should work for NASM. He was like you're really fantastic, you have a great presence, you should work for NASM and Anthony, I had never experienced so much joy or imposter syndrome all at the same time, like that's awesome.
Speaker 2:It made me feel good because I felt like my ability to like to get in front of people and teach in a way that is educational and entertaining was good, but I wasn't smart enough. I wasn't educated enough. That's not what my degree was in. You know, I had, I had some certifications under my belt because I wanted, I wanted the big three.
Speaker 2:So I went and I got, you know, my NASM, my ACSM and HFI and then my CSCS, because I was like I don't have the formal education, so let me at least, like, get some really strong certifications. But when he was like you should teach for NASM, I just there was a big time, I'm not smart enough, I don't know enough. And then I found myself in a job, not in New York sports club, but in a job like I wasn't too happy about. So I was like, yeah, you know what, I'm just going to apply for NASM. And at the same time I was applying to a master's degree program at CalU and ended up getting the master's degree program turning down a international tour as a trainer with a music artist, because the tour would interfere when I would interview with NASM.
Speaker 1:And I was like that's a gamble.
Speaker 2:It was. It was a big gamble and, as my friend said, who helped coordinate the deal? He was like you'll always have the opportunity to work with like celebrities or people If that's what you want to do. You're not always going to have the opportunity Like. You can't lose this opportunity because it fits you Right. Like that's who I became at the gym, like the exercise science educator guy, and he was like and it's NASM? And I was like you're right. And I turned down the tour and went at the time to Calabasas and interviewed with Rodney corn at the time and there were four of us and they told us only one of us would get it. So it was, it was lit like squid game, hunger games. We all got hired. We all got hired. What a jerk. But it was an intensive and a great experience. And then that was 2006, I believe. So I've been yeah, been with NASM since 2006.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a story yeah man. That's. That's like a story in itself just taking an opportunity that you're not guaranteed Right, Mipping up something that you are guaranteed to just get a chance on something that of itself we could spend hours on Right, Right.
Speaker 2:And the fact that it's cool and I'd never trained a celeb really before and this was my opportunity to go on tour, like European tour, like that was so exciting. And at the same time I was like but when the tour is over, what? Right, but if I get the NASM gig, then I don't. Well, clearly I'm here 15 years later. So that worked out.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you the question that's going through almost every single trainer's mind, and I'm sure like yours, before you even start why NASM compared to ace ACSM? I mean, there's about a 65 million certifications now, little exaggerating but Not that much. So why NASM? Why is that the one that you wanted to work for? Why is that the one that you feel people should take?
Speaker 2:You know what? That's a really great question and I can answer it because I read the ace manual cover-to-cover and I've been certified through multiple things and the. The real answer for me was that NASM just seemed more applicable to my client base that I wanted to work with right, so CSCS I wasn't working with athletes, so it was great information but nothing not as much really carried over to my fitness clients. With ACSM I did the health fitness instructor, which is a lot of exercise, fizz well, and as we started going through applications for ACSM I was like I'm never gonna do Heart rate I mean blood pressure on a treadmill, like I'm just never gonna do that. I we don't have the wind gate assessments, so I'm not gonna do that in a gym. Which one fits the more gym. Now Don't get me wrong. Acsm first of all, hardest exam I've ever taken. I probably had more pride in that than anything like that was crazy hard.
Speaker 2:Nsca Love the content, love the material. It was just about the application in the group that I worked with, so didn't have anything to do with the information. In fact, I found a lot of stuff in the ace manual I would like tell people about because I thought it was so interesting and you know, like I'm just interested in stuff. So that's why when people are like, oh, I hate them, I hate them. I'm like why, like, they all have good stuff and if it's based in science, it's not just some dudes Bowding out opinions, then it's information that's validated, it's good information. I just liked it because it had such a good application for the fitness client. If, then right, if you have a client that wants this, then this is a part of a model you may want to work to or through In order to get to another level.
Speaker 2:In a model there was, there was a training programming model that made it very simple for me and the fact that, like, some people like will complain, like, oh, any assembly, you can you stand on one leg a lot, or do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:I'm like that's just a phase and I find that phase to be really valuable. It's not that we don't progress to standing on two legs and it's not that standing on one leg is required, but there are so many options that I never saw in anything else that I'm like look at the options, not look at the dogma of. You're supposed to do this. It was look at the options that you're given this library of information. And if you want to focus on muscular development, you can focus on that. If you want to focus on max strength or performance, you can do all of those things, but here's here's a programming model that allows a a wide breadth of information Versus. This is what we do, and you know we're trying not to pigeonhole anything, but figure out how everything can fit into a systematic, progressive model of training.
Speaker 1:That was a great in-depth question. Just that answer was just I.
Speaker 2:Was? I was like yeah, I was just like wow wow, wow.
Speaker 1:Thank you, you're telling me back on the fact that I have a nasum certification.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice.
Speaker 1:And just just full disclosure for everyone listening. If you do not know already, I have my nasum CPTA by nasum, small group training. I make it a thing for all my trainers. Pretty much all have nasum, so Really big component and you nailed it right on the head. It's not that one certification is better. The truth of the matter is it's what clientele you're working with. So we don't work with athletes almost never. We work with the people coming out of physical therapy, coming out of post rehab. Never Step foot into gym before I'm not having these guys throw weights around trying to bench 400 pounds and that's just not what we're about.
Speaker 1:And I know each component of how you guys set up your Step program, or so your training program, which I just want you to mention briefly with it, where it starts at first learning, stabilization exercises and moving up to Muscular endurance, then hypertrophy, the max strength and then, once you master all that that, even get into power training. So talk, more work is a little through that model, if you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so initially nasum. So the OPT model is the the model that we use and, interestingly, it is an athlete training model that was repurposed to work with the everyday client. So it it is designed to work with athletes. In fact, when it was designed by Mike Clark, who was formerly the CEO of nasm, he developed the OPT model because he created it. He was physical, he is a physical therapist, got a degree in exercise science because he wanted to figure out how to connect these two, because when he was working With athletes he was like there seems to be not a great connection between what the physical therapist or have them doing and what the strength and conditioning coach or the athletic trainers were doing with them, right, so he wanted to learn. The other side went back, got a degree, put him together and said, okay, this is how we're gonna work with athletes. And he was the head physical therapist at the Phoenix Suns and he utilized that to help people like Grant Hill, who was at one point considered the biggest Financial flop in NBA history because he he went to Orlando. Hundred million dollar contract five years, got hurt, played like 80 games total, went to the Phoenix Suns. Clark fixed him up Beyond like what a personal trainer can do, just as a physical therapist but applied the OPT model and that guy became back to all-star status again and he thought that his career was over and so Phoenix became the Phoenix. Indeed, like all these injured athletes were like can you trade me to Phoenix so they can fix me? And so and they did like, shaq went there and he was so busted and they fixed him up and he played solid for a while, moved on to another team afterwards and was didn't just maintain that ability.
Speaker 2:So what's that? What initially was was a seven-fifth Model and now it's a five-phase model with the two other phases taken out, the one at the bottom and the one at the top. The one at the bottom was corrective exercise and the one at the top was power. So what they did is they made a full specialization out of the one at the bottom, which is the corrective exercise specialist. So they said let's take that very bottom one and say corrective exercise is so deep if a personal trainer is gonna do that, they need to have their own specialization. And then they went kind of like the NASMs Comparable certification to NSCA is CSCS. They created, just with the top version of the OPT model, the power phase. They created the performance enhancement specialist and it is very focused on the individual athletes. So that that was very, very important to NASM that they're not focusing on.
Speaker 2:Here's what we do as a team, and this is in season, preseason, postseason, offseason and just the things that we do there as a team. But this is what you, as an athlete on this team, specifically, I'm looking at, and so it would go through like the performance assessments and the movement assessments. So that's what we do here. So that's what we do here, so that's what we're looking at, and so it would go through like the performance assessments and the movement assessments and the why. But then it also had the programming.
Speaker 2:Now, what those two taken apart, then we're left with the CPT, the certified personal trainers version of the OPT model. So that starts us off with stabilization endurance, and I like the names of them because it tells you exactly what your outcomes are. Stabilization endurance good, we have one for that. It's called stabilization endurance. Then we there's strength endurance. You mentioned this hypertrophy which in the CPT seven we changed it back to its original name muscular development. Then we have max strength and then power. So there are five phases in the CPT version of the OPT model there's a stabilization level, a strength level, a power level, and I think detractors a lot of times just they just don't like the stabilization stuff, so they'll point at that. But out of the three levels we have, the strength phase has these are the strength level has three different phases in it, like there's more time spent in the strength phase than any other phase and so there's no reason to detract.
Speaker 2:In fact I had an Olympian on the other day. So bodybuilder, olympian, not like fencing or anything like that. So Mr Olympia, bodybuilder, oh well, just throwing it out there, so cool. Yeah, andre Adams is his name and he's he's an Olympian bodybuilder and he said you know we're talking, he's big in the NASM, he's big into the OPT model and he was like you can spend almost a full three months in your hypertrophy phase just by switching up the variables that are already in the hypertrophy phase. He was like the ability to do that he goes.
Speaker 2:But the good news is that NASMC and a lot of other people don't see is that you do need to cycle out of it. But which way are you gonna cycle? You can go either way and it doesn't matter. You can cycle down and do stabilization and endurance and get your joints right and protect yourself from the big weights you're pushing, or you can go into max strength. You can get more neural activation, maybe some of those muscles and those nerve, those fibers that weren't really activating before. You can slap them around, wake them up, get them back down into the hypertrophy phase and blow them up too.
Speaker 2:So there are a lot of options there and I think that when you get athletes that historically have done the OPT model but now even bodybuilders are looking at things like the OPT model and going man, this is great for how it supported me, the individuals we worked with throughout the years through the NBA, the NFL, and NFL has been a tougher turn because they're so traditional historically in their training. But we are now the official education partner of the NBA, ta, the Trainers Association for the NBA, same thing for the NHL. So they're really connected with us and our products and our education, whether it's a personal training certification. But athletic trainers aren't so much about the personal training certs, they want that PES and CES. They're getting that and applying that directly to the athletes which are kind of the bookends to that OPT model. Where do I start them Because they need correctives, and then how do I finish them up to get their performance elevated? And then there's a model that connects those two in between.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so interesting and we see it a lot. We've mentioned the Andre Adams and the traditional bodybuilding stamp where you're talking from the Arnold days, where Minkie references that he would snort cocaine, take a shot at tequila during his exercises Just little things like that, because he thought he was helping himself. And now we've come to a more systematic approach to really how to make your body healthier, how to move better, how to feel better, how to grow your muscles in the standpoint, if you're looking for that, and it's laid out pretty nicely through that OPT model- yeah, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 2:And is it possible that some of those things that Arnold did back in the day were good and some of those things that they did were bad, and a lot of times? Here's the thing is that, like many times, athletes and bodybuilders and others they almost don't care about the path getting there, as long as it gets the outcome, and that's with anybody really looking to succeed, whether it's the Tour de France, you know what I mean. Like there are a lot of things that people wanna know how they can enhance performance. From our perspective, how can we do that? By getting the body to work better without adding the external things that are going into it. So, as a professional, what do we do? We work with the body and how do I get the body to maximize performance in ways that we can? When it comes through movement, how can I get movement to maximize performance? And that's really what the entire book of NASM is. Sons, the certified nutrition specialist that they came out with last year. Who's that's been crushing it.
Speaker 1:And I wanna don't want you to talk too much about that, because I have specific questions about that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't know a lot about it yet, like I'm actually taking it right now, but I haven't gone through the entire course yet.
Speaker 1:It's a very basic question. I'll just ask you right now Go for it Through basic certifications. I know NASM does it, I know ECM does it. They're very against teaching diet and or nutrition, however you wanna call it, whereas they wanna leave that to professionals, aka registered dietitians, because they have licensed it shared the RU, different states and the federal government. So walk us through where that certification A lies or what the scope of the trainer should be when it comes to nutrition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. So a few decade or more ago, john Berardi really flipped this on his head, so he's a precision nutrition guy.
Speaker 1:I'm looking to his book right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So and here's what happened. When I first started probably you too we were told at New York sports club that I worked with at the time Don't even mention the word nutrition, Don't suggest anything. Now what had happened is that one of the gyms in New York City, a woman asked her trainer what do I need to do? What supplement should I take? He took her to a supplement store and said this is what you should take. And he gives her a bunch of things, and a Fedra was on one of those and she ended up taking that. She had an underlying condition and she died. So the store got sued, the trainer got sued, the company got sued, the fitness company got sued.
Speaker 2:It was a huge industry thing and all of a sudden, everything's off the shelves, Nobody's selling bars or like there was nothing, you couldn't get anything, and slowly they would start coming in places like dot fit or like it's okay, these are okay to have, and they started building that. People started bringing in supplements, but nobody talked about diet, Nobody talked about anything. Now what we're looking at, and John Berardi flipped that and NASM went in and said well, we need to speak to this as well, because clearly there's a market for it. And so they got some of the absolute like most incredible subject matter experts in nutrition and researchers and they had them put together content. So they were assigned these concepts and then they developed. It was really beautifully done. So what can they talk about? You can talk about nutrition, but you can't assign what to eat right so you can educate your client about eating. You can educate your client about macros. You can educate your client about what food does and micronutrients do and whether or not those things are happening.
Speaker 2:If you have somebody with a pathology so, for instance, I'm type two diabetic so a trainer talking to me about nutrition like you have to be out of your mind. Like this is not a conversation for you to be having with me. I need to be having this conversation with a registered dietitian, not even my endocrinologist, because she doesn't even know that much about nutrition. You know what I mean. Like the registered dietitian, their job is almost exclusively and we think, oh, maybe weight loss, weight loss yeah, that's nice, that's. They deal with that Almost exclusively, working with people that have pathologies and how their diet plays into that. Like that's what they go to school, that's why they get paid. That's why they went to school for so long and master's degree and fellowships before they even sit down and can have their first client. That's not underneath somebody else that is going with it. It's a deep field.
Speaker 2:What can we talk about? Macros, micros, you know, with that, like vitamins and minerals. What did they do? What did they mean? How does this food affect our body? What can I relate this to? Pathology? Without telling you what to eat? Yes, but if you have a pathology, the first thing I do is send you off to somebody else, because I'm not like. Talking about nutrition in a general way is very important. The other thing about this course is it's not so much about telling people what to do, because that's not what coaching is. Coaching is a guide that allows somebody else to maximize their output. So I'm a huge football fan, college football specifically. I grew up in Alabama. I've been living in New York for 20 years, but listen, you grew up in Alabama.
Speaker 1:It's.
Speaker 2:Alabama, auburn or out. So I was a big Alabama fan still am to this day. And Nick Saban we talk about him like people love to make fun of him because he's always so stoic. And the great thing about great coaches is they'll give guidelines, but somebody else has to execute it. So how do I teach somebody to execute? How do I coach them to execute? Not tell them what to do Like that's not the goal. The goal was to get somebody a skill set and a perspective that allows them to execute appropriately, and that's coaching. And that's a huge part of the certified nutrition coach Isn't just the data on nutrition, but it's on coaching. And I think that my friend is key to behavior change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I couldn't agree more. A client-centric approach to nutrition is the best way to kind of underline, educate the person about it and give them the tools they need to make their own decisions and live their own life. It kind of goes back hand in hand with exercising. It's the same thing.
Speaker 1:Personally, as a trainer, the last thing I want and this may sound counterproductive to some of you trainers listening to this, or clients but I want every single one of my clients to know as much as me or more than me. The last thing I want is to not to withhold information because I'm afraid that that client's no longer gonna need me. That is not why I'm a trainer. I want everyone to know everything. I want you to be. The biggest compliment I've got is I've had two clients now become trainers and that is huge in my eyes. Yeah, yeah. So what? Work us through that? The coaching side of being a trainer, teaching people and how, as trainers, we should pull away from that stigma of, hey, let's just withhold information to make money, because there's a hard field to get into. Work it through this.
Speaker 2:I hate that so much. All right, so I don't have to go back through.
Speaker 2:Let me find something I said recently but it bothered me so so much. I remember when I was in massage therapy school and I was talking about foam rolling and the massage therapists were like no, I would never tell them to foam roll. And I was like why? And they were like then they won't need us. And I was like are you out of your mind? I said the reason I went into massage therapy school is because the things that foam rolling can't do right, like there's so many things that you can't do to loosen your own muscles up and to prep. I said that bothers me so much that you are so concerned with that that you decide not to even teach somebody some self efficacy.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's one of the big things when it comes to personal training is that you should be teaching self efficacy. You should be teaching people how to move on their own and how to progress. And the truth of the matter is I have a lot of clients that don't need me. They just continue to use me, right, because I've taught them the things that they need to do to be successful and they have taken that. But they still want me to train them because they think that me training them. They get more out of it, and maybe that's right. Maybe they do. I sure get more out of working with other people than if it's just me working out on my own.
Speaker 2:So what should you do as a personal trainer? I mean ultimately even as a massage therapist, and when they say you know how often should I come in, I'm like when you're ready, right. I'm like if you wanna keep coming in, keep coming in If you're not hurt anymore. Don't come in If, as a trainer, we're either getting to your goals or we're not getting to your goals. So we need to do one of two things we need to switch our goals or you need to switch your trainer and or change your perspective right, cause sometimes the goals and the outcomes just aren't within the realm of what's achievable.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, I just want to teach people how to move and be active on their own, and when they're active, I would like for their movement to be better than it would have been if they didn't move, if they didn't come and see me. But the truth of the matter is and I mentioned this early on like my ultimate goal of these days are just to get people to be more active and through my education with NASM, I can work to get you more active. Hopefully, my work with NASM allows you to move better whilst being active, and that's where I think we need to direct our clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely just kind of getting up moving, giving them the tools they need, being that resource that's a podcasting is about. Is it not 100%? It's 100%. It's a free resource for everyone in the world to listen to and go on with their days and take that admission and use it. I know you asked me a little bit pre-show. You wanted me to give you questions about the good, the bad, about NASM, what I thought. But I actually decided that I'm not going to do that, but instead I'm going to ask you those same questions.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, what you got.
Speaker 1:You to work us through what you think is the best part about it, what you think is the worst part about it and ultimately, I know we're both going to be on the same page. That why everyone should not only look into different certifications because every single one of them is different. A lot of them just full disclosure, like not even going to mention names. But there's certain certs that you take your test online and you can copy paste from a friend, and NASM is not one of those. So one of the main reasons I like NASM because it actually has a really good exam structure to it. But work us through why you love it, what maybe they need to improve on for the future, what maybe is coming go for it.
Speaker 2:I think one big thing to talk about here is the accreditation process and a lot, all the certifications that are the big ones that you know of the ACSMs, nsca's, ace, those that they're all part of the NCCA accreditation. So what that means is that we now have and NASM is a part of that right, like you, there are guidelines, there are rules that you have to abide by if you're going to produce content. So there's no way to do a copy and paste. They put in you know these have to be proctored examinations. For the ones that are accredited certifications, they're proctored, they are sourced not through just the company but the people who are in the field.
Speaker 2:So NASM flew a bunch of people out to Ascend Learning owns NASM. They flew them out to Kansas City and they said, hey, what are the topics that our trainers need to know? And you write the questions. And then they took a four hour workshop on question writing. So you have to not only do that but you have to write questions in a way that that. So here's one of the examples the people that are teaching the workshop don't know anything about fitness and they'd walk up and they'd read questions and the multiple choice answers and then go oh, the answer is D. And they're like how did you know that? And they would just say, because of everything else had this, but this one was an outlier, so it had to be the right one. And they were like that's crazy that you would know that.
Speaker 2:So a lot of people that are good at test taking don't even have to know what the content is and they could pass a test. So they taught you how to teach, how to ask questions, how to put the answers in. There are a lot of things in the accreditation process that legitimize these accreditation. So when you get accredited, then that is a big deal. And what accreditation did was allowed the industry to move forward in regulating itself versus what states like Maryland have brought into legislation multiple times, which is making fitness a license, and each state licensed you as a fitness professional. Well then the variety in the field starts to go away, because everybody has to align with. This is what the state organization tells you that you need to learn.
Speaker 1:You know that happened in New.
Speaker 2:York right, I think they proposed it in New York as well. So what happened? Because nothing was accredited. Ursa, which is kind of like the non-regulating body of the fitness industry, goes we can do this, we don't need your interference. We as an industry and so the big names and the big certs, all kind of pulled resource, pulled content and worked together to find accreditation that allowed us to all move forward without the state telling us and that's for any state that you're in telling you this is how you need to teach and you get a state license. Now I have a license and massage therapy, so I went to school, so your different schools can teach different topics, but you all have like a state license that you would need to get and then you register again and again every few years. So same thing like, if you wanna keep your certification, you have to go back and do continuing education in order to maintain your certification.
Speaker 2:And I'm a big fan of continuing education and I've had trainers tell me because they wanna work at my gym. So I own several gyms in New York City and they say can I train my clients at your gym? And I say, yeah, just give me your. I need several things from you, including CPR, aed certification. I need your nationally accredited certification and insurance. And there's a whole list of things that I get from them. And they'll say, oh, I don't believe in certifications. I got them for years. I've been certified for a long time. I let them lapse, is it okay? And I was like, yeah, I can't man, yeah, I'm just gonna. You are barking up the wrong tree with this guy, right, like for somebody to say how smart they are, that they don't need continuing education or certification. I'm like, well, at that point, I don't know how smart you are, because you don't have any information that tells me you've accomplished anything, just an ego that tells me you're smarter than everybody else. That does get them.
Speaker 1:I'll just fill in, I'll just make a perfect example for you.
Speaker 2:Do it.
Speaker 1:Something I still see in Jim's nowadays is everyone's still doing lap pull downs behind the neck, like that's been not a thing for 10, 15 years, and people are still doing it and they're watching the older folks do it because they're bodybuilders and it's just like that is so bad for your cervical spine. Come on Like this, no stop. So please keep coming in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what? It's funny too. Like there are some people I've seen and they look so good on Instagram doing behind the head pull downs, and then they'll say things like we were told not to do this and I was like, well, you can do it. You're the only person I've seen whose head didn't jump forward and your arms didn't go in a weird position. Like there are outliers that can do things that other people can't do.
Speaker 2:But as a general rule, I wanna know why you're doing it. Like, why are you doing it? And if you think it's because you get better activation in that position, that's not true. While you're doing it, jutting your head forward, shrugging your shoulders and pulling your arms into a closed pack position at your shoulders that doesn't allow for really freedom of movement. So why do you do what you do? And some people, like this guy that I saw on Instagram he was fantastic, he is legitimately like he can do that.
Speaker 2:If I watch some people that do snatches and they land in a deep squat position and their back is arched and their arms are pulled back way farther than they would be in a behind the head lap, pull down with their arms way back, and I'm like. You know what that moves not for everybody either. Is it okay that people that snatch put their arms in that position? Yeah, because that's what a snatch is. And what do you wanna get better? You wanna get better at snatches, but nobody says, yeah, I just wanna get really good at behind the neck lap pull downs, because it's a thing Like no, you need to have a better reason why, and a lot of times their reason, which is oh, it's really good for engaging the lats, it's not as ideal in lat engagement, so your reason doesn't match the outcome and we need to be aware of that. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You pretty much something. So just real quick, because I don't wanna start wrapping up, is what's something you would push towards. It's not bad, but just what do you think the direction Nazem and other search should take to help better the field?
Speaker 2:I think that there's there's a divide between education and application, and NASM recognizes this, because the OPT model is education about how to apply and yet we still find in the industry that people that are NASM certified still have a hard time understanding how to apply something, that even as educators we look at it and we're like I mean, it's like written out for you, and so there's a disconnect still on what the application is, for some like a training model. Do I know how to answer that question? The truth of the matter is I don't. I do. What do you get? What do you get?
Speaker 1:So that's actually something that I've mentioned before and I love how that was what you picked, because that's my exact answer. Like, that was my exact issue of what I think everyone should do For your tests. Instead of making it where you pass a pen and paper test, have a practical component with trusted organizations where people have to do a certain amount of applications shadowing ours in order to be able to take the exam. So we did this.
Speaker 1:In college, we had an unaccredited personal training course where we took classes and then we had workshops on top of the classes. So we had a practical exam plus we had a written exam. So we were able to take both and that understanding knowledge is different than actually applying it and we were able to apply it in a practical. I think it's something that could easily be done. I know Nazism is a huge organization, but if they took gyms and accredited gyms like, say, I had someone like you who's super knowledgeable and say, hey, you know redefine fitness, we got you guys Like you know what you're talking about. This is the steps we're looking for, this is what I want you to do, and then you have to pass these trainers or to qualify them for the written exam Boom.
Speaker 2:So when it comes to accreditation. That's not something that you can do.
Speaker 2:And unfortunately, like this is where the hands are tied in many instances, because how can I create equity with people who don't have gyms that is accessible to them, and there are a lot of places where that's not accessible. Also, we've even done things with internships and they call them gym internships and a lot of times, even the people in the gym internship aren't teaching NASM information, so we can't get somebody else to do that, and so what happens is it's kind of like. It's kind of like I mean, even to my doctorate and my master's degree, I did it online. So when it go to school and have somebody like teach me this is how you apply it, it's for me to figure that out. And also, when you go and you learn this information, if you wanna get a job, the hope is that, like, your job is the on-site education and experience and application. Your education is trying to figure out how do I create something with that? And that's part of the accreditation process. So we can't accredit people by doing that.
Speaker 2:And would that be a great idea? Yeah, man, like I would never say that that's a bad idea. It'd be a brilliant idea. It's just it is legend, right, like it's so big, it's so massive that it's not something that we can do, and so all we can do is provide the education. You learn it and hopefully you can apply it. But what we've been doing is creating content. We now are getting on board with the podcasts and we have something called the NASM podcast network, where there are four different podcasts that you can go to and that you can be like all right, here's my ongoing continuing education. Not, you don't get CECs for it, but here's your continuing education that you can go and learn and figure out, like what are some of the means that I can apply these things, versus here's my textbook, here's maybe an online course, and after that it's done Like we don't have anything else to provide you. You are, on your own, kicked out of the nest and these ways through the podcasts. So not just mine, but many other people.
Speaker 1:What's your viewers? Just for our audience.
Speaker 2:I have the NASM CPT podcast so certified personal trainer podcast and the cool thing is that it's not just about NASM. So I don't just talk about what NASM talks about. I go through and I find research that's interesting. I'm a business owner. You wanna learn about opening your own gym or how to build your business or what's a social media strategy you can employ. I talk about that Like there are a lot of things because I wear a lot of hats in the industry that I can speak to from my experience and I love it. I have guests on that can speak from research, so I like to have people on that work in research or work in a clinic that allow us to learn from them, and for me that's super important because it speaks to how we make application for information.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so interesting. I love the fact that you do that through that platform and kind of educate people and something you mentioned. Just as a last point, I think the hardest part about being a trainer and I mentioned this during every interview is it's a lot like being a real estate agent, and I'm gonna reference that because that's something I did pre being a pro trainer.
Speaker 1:It's one of the hardest careers because A of the way that you get paid, b there's two most valuable assets we have in our lives it's our homes and it's our bodies. So it takes us a lot to trust somebody to sell or work with that entity, whether it is your house or whether it is yourself. So, as a trainer, not having that understanding of how to get somebody to trust you to work with them because they only have one body that's something that a lot of trainers struggle with is building your clientele. They might know everything, but the sales aspect is far into that.
Speaker 2:So I think it's important too, like to talk about sales in the fitness industry and to let people know that you could be a very educated trainer and you could be a very experienced and apt trainer. But if nobody knows that nobody buys it, then you're really good at doing nothing because you can't provide it to anybody, and sales is a part of that process. Marketing is a part of that process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and that's something we talk about another time. But, rick, I want you to wrap this thing up. Give us this last minute. Sum up everything we spoke about about Nazim, about yourself. Just gives us a summary in the last take home message.
Speaker 2:Yeah, lifelong learner. So just get out there and keep learning. Do I want you to learn through Nazim? 100%? Do I want you to learn anyway, 100%?
Speaker 2:So get out there and build your education and learn and want to learn, and one of the great ways that you can want to learn if you're like I want to learn, but I don't right, because, like I want to play guitar, I just don't want to learn how to do it, so I just want to be able to. So what are the things that you do? Well, one thing that I did is I got a ukulele over here. So, like I'm taking small steps to learn how to do things that I want to do that I don't want to spend time doing, and so now I can play you on my sunshine.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, like getting out there and learn a little bit, like just find something that you're interested in, even if it's not fitness, because I think wanting to learn, learning, reading, consuming information has, as researcher in psychology, barbara Fredrickson talks about, upward spirals.
Speaker 2:You build on things that you're good at and you let that expand to other things, and I think if we spent more time creating that around who we are and what we want to do, then that would start making its way, would creep its way into so many other aspects of our lives with work, with our family, with our interactions with others, with our learning, with our education, and so just being a part of that upward spiral when it comes to self-betterment, and that applies to our fitness as well.
Speaker 2:So if I can do that with myself and I can get my clients to find something that they like not bringing them in and just find a bunch of things that they don't like, but I've decided that's what's good for you physically, but mentally it's not sitting well, they hate doing it then I can bring them in and I can say what do you want to do today? And that used to be the worst thing. I could hear you say what do you want to do today? Because to me that meant you didn't put a program together. Now it means you're actually interested in what somebody else is wanting to do, as long as you still put a program together for them.
Speaker 1:Absolutely couldn't agree more on that one. And then last question where can people find you, get a hold of you? They want to learn more. We know you host the NASM CPT podcast, which I highly recommend everybody listen to, but where else can people get a hold of you, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm on social. I'm mostly available on Instagram at drrickrichie R-I-C-K-R-I-C-H-E-Y, or you can hit me up on my email, rickrichie at NASMorg.
Speaker 1:And thank you guys for joining us on this week's episode of health and fitness redefined. Don't forget, hit that subscribe button and join us next week as we dive deeper into this ever changing field. And remember fitness is a journey, not a destination. Until next time For us. We know what it's like to feel unhealthy, depressed and downright defeated. We want to show others there is a right way and through fitness you could do anything you set your mind to. Fitness can give you that motivation, confidence, energy you need to bridge that mental gap and prevent you from missing important life events. We understand it's about feeling better, living longer and being good examples for our kids. We understand this because we live it and for us that's the redefined difference.