From Overwhelm to Accomplishment with Holly Ostara

This week we're privileged to have Holly Ostara, author and book coach join us. Holly takes us on a journey, sharing her personal battles with panic disorder and overwhelm, and the systems she created to transform these struggles into her strengths. 

Holly doesn't just write books, she empowers authors across the globe with her unique framework.  She helps entrepreneurs find their voice and communicate confidently, a skill we all need, entrepreneur or not.

We explore strategies for creating inspiration when you sit down to write, overcoming writer’s block and how writing can be used as a self-discovery tool. We touch on the importance of being gentle with ourselves, allowing flexibility in our pursuits, and maximizing productivity without burning out. Holly  shares her journey of letting go of perfection and trusting the process, and how this was a key factor in her success.

Ready to face your fears, take on your challenges, and achieve your goals? Join us for this inspiring journey with Holly Ostara.

For more about Holly you can follow her on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/hollyostara/

Download free Writing Ritual Tracker, to help you discover your unique writing ritual that will help you get your book written this year without stress and overwhelm: https://www.booksandalchemy.com/writing-ritual-tracker/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Overwhelming's optional podcast, where each week, we find ways to gently rebel against the nonsense that overwhelming exhaustion are just the price you pay to have the life you want. So welcome to this week's episode of the Overwhelming's optional podcast, which is a special guest interview with Holly Ostara. Holly is a author and book coach who specialises in helping authors get their books written in six months flat In a sustainable, enjoyable way, without burnout. hence why we're here today because I thought it would be really cool to see what Holly does with her clients that can help us, in general, achieve what we want to achieve without overwhelm, without burnout, in an enjoyable, sustainable way. Welcome, holly, it's so nice to see you. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:51

I'm really excited to be here, so tell me about your adventures in overwhelm Oh gosh.

Speaker 2: 1:00

They've been ongoing my whole life. I had a panic disorder when I was a teenager which kind of came out of nowhere and that kind of created the overwhelm that fed into my adult life. So when I was in college I was going for art and writing and was just a creative type, but I was always feeling pressured mostly from my parents my mother to not do that, to do something that's going to get me a job instead of something that's artistic. And so I ended up trying to double major and that didn't quite work. I burnt myself out. So I ended up just getting a business degree and then I thought, okay, i'll go to grad school and I'll finally do what I want to do.

Speaker 2: 1:52

And I went to grad school for publishing And I worked during grad school and that added more overwhelm to me because I was working full time, still managed to graduate at the same time as the rest of my cohort, so I was putting in a lot of hours and was still not feeling totally fulfilled, which I personally believe makes it a little bit harder to kind of deal with overwhelm. So then I started trying to write my first book while I was in college and that added one more thing, and as I was writing it it took me 13 years to finish that first book I just kept feeling it was never good enough. I was still working on my grad degree I was actually still working on my undergrad degree when I started it And it was just always one more project added on top because I was not feeling fulfilled in my personal life. So I kept adding more and more and more, and then when I finally graduated from publishing, i thought I'd go into publishing and kind of work in one of the big publishing houses, perhaps as an acquisitions editor. That was really my hope and dream.

Speaker 2: 3:01

But then I realized that that's not always sustainable if you can't afford to live in New York City without being paid, and so I ended up going into project management instead. And that's where my story, i think, starts to come full circle, because that's where I started learning the skills I needed to kind of handle overwhelm and manage myself and figure out how to integrate all of these things I wanted to do in my life without piling so much on top of me that I could not ever see the sun again. So that was actually a really big opportunity is when I went into, when I wasn't able to go into publishing and I went into project management. Those circumstances, they forced me to take a new path. They forced me to look at different ways to achieve what I wanted to achieve. They forced me to prioritize things and learning those skills just kind of helped my creative type brain be better at creating systems and processes that worked for me without making me feel burnt out, and I brought that into my work as a book coach.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Wow, yeah, that's it. I love how you describe how you got there and this, this idea that there are skills. That's what I really really like, that those things we do, rather than the. I need to be doing less. I want too much. You just went all in on the. I'm going to work out how I can have all of these things I want, and I really really like that as a creative person myself who's constantly coming up with ideas and starting projects and, yeah, i really really like that. I am interested to know this one thing, though, before you tell me about what you do now Do you ever feel like the systems and processes that you create sometimes cause you to want to rebel against them because they feel restrictive in any way? or have you?

Speaker 2: 5:00

Yes, 100%, especially when I was first getting started. I also have ADHD, so I'm also having that rebel as well. But when I was first getting started, actually, and I was first going through like the training, the education and then prepping to take the test for certification for project management, i hated everything about project management. I mean, i am a creative type, so it did feel very restrictive and it's just taken me you know, it's been almost 10 years now since I first got certified And it's taken me you know, probably seven or eight of those to figure out how to make it work for people who aren't type A or who aren't naturally inclined to go that process route.

Speaker 1: 5:43

Yeah, i love that. I'm just wondering why expect your tell us as we go through? So I'm going to ask the next question, which is the next part of your story What do you do now?

Speaker 2: 5:57

Yes, so now I am a business or a book coach for people entrepreneurs who want to grow their business by writing a book, because writing a book is a really great way to build no like and trust.

Speaker 2: 6:09

It's a great way to establish yourself as an authority and your niche. It's also a great way to just get the thoughts and ideas that are in your head out onto paper, and there's a method you can follow that helps you not only refine your thoughts so that you can understand it better yourself, but also teach it to other people. And that is one of the things that I find a lot of entrepreneurs really benefit from is being able to say what they want to say, and learn how to say what they want to say is what I mean to say so that they can express their framework or their message or their methodology or the story of their business in a way that teaches and entertains and inspires other people. Because knowing how to do something and knowing how to teach something are different, and writing a book gives you that framework. From learning how to teach as well as do You do way more way more than I thought you did, because you're not.

Speaker 1: 7:15

You're not only creating this system that enables people to get this book out into the world, which is the project management, but you're also helping people find their voice and to communicate. That And I'd say that's a whole, nother level of things. And that, yeah, tell us more about that, because and then tell us about the systems thing, because, yeah, i'm really curious about that, because, yeah, i'm really curious about how you Yeah, how you help entrepreneurs find their voice, because, even if you're not a business owner, because I have a mix of people listening, being able to know what you want to say and being feeling confident saying it, being able to communicate that's really important. So I'm just about that side of it.

Speaker 2: 7:57

Well, this kind of goes back to me just not being able to say no to any project and just having to find a way to incorporate it without getting burned out. I, you know, my undergrad degree is in business and I just really loved it. Even though it wasn't where I started, i actually did really love it and became very. I developed a very entrepreneurial spirit from that. So helping people with business and and specifically speaking their voice so that they can get it down into a book has been integral, and I just can't say no to one. It's one more thing, apparently. So, about that in particular, there is a framework for books and it's not It's it's not something that you have to do. This perfectly Like, for example, a movie script. Every little part of a movie has to land on a certain minute mark so that the movie will sell And they will edit ruthlessly to get there.

Speaker 2: 9:03

Books also have a framework, but they're not quite so harsh as that, and so there are really, i think, easy way to guide you to figuring out what needs to go where, what you need to say, and the value. There is that you have all these ideas in your head. You just don't know how to say it. Maybe you may not think you're a writer. It doesn't matter, anybody can write a book, especially a nonfiction book.

Speaker 2: 9:33

The framework that every nonfiction book goes through, every prescriptive nonfiction book which is going to be like yourself, help your how to, you know like, build your business, sort of books, those things Follows a journey, so you could think of it like a hero's journey. Your reader starts in one spot, at the beginning. By the end of the book you want them to end up The hero of the story, inspired, educated or motivated to take some action, and you can lead them through this hero's journey from the beginning to the end. And there are points along the way that you have to hit And each of those points you can think of as a prompt to think of how to find what you need to say right here which, just by answering these questions, helps you create your own or discover your own writing voice and write your book at the same time.

Speaker 1: 10:28

I really, really like that question. I love questions The whole. You know the quality of your life is determined by the quality of the questions you ask. So I think, even for somebody who doesn't feel the need to write a book, i think that in itself I mean, if you think about when you write the story of your life I think it's a really, really good thing to do is to rewrite the story of your life in a different way, to examine it With different questions, because often when we, often when we tell the story of our life, if you listen to how I think it's really interesting to listen to how I tell my story because it's changed as I become, you know, as I forgive myself for being young months and making silly mistakes, you know, as I forgive myself and accept myself more, as I become clearer on who I am and what I want to want My purpose is I can hear my story changing. So I'm just, i just really like the idea actually of, in general, for all of us writing down our stories and writing them in a way that makes them into our heroes journey, because we are the heroes of our own life, and I just think that's a really, in fact, one of the things on my to-do list at the moment is to write the future. Write the past and the future of my business, to write my business story, to inspire myself. I love that, yeah, i love that. You should do that. Yeah, yeah, no, i will do it. So it will be.

Speaker 1: 11:56

You know, just looking at the past five years and reframing it completely positively, to wake up my brain and stop it doing that thing of you should have got here faster. You shouldn't have done that. You shouldn't have invested that money in that course or that mentor. You shouldn't have done this. You shouldn't have done, you know, the whole judgment thing. So just taking that and rewriting it In a format where every single choice I made, every single thing that happened, was working out for me, and looking at what's the gift in the journey, rather than what our brains normally do, which is judge us harshly, and then moving into a future where I'm writing in what I want to call in next, so that I can take my mind to that future already And I just think that's a really beneficial, i think is a good thing to do.

Speaker 1: 12:43

Anyway, i think it's. I mean, i want to do it for my business as a businesswoman, but I think doing it for your life is really, really helpful. And I really relate to what you're saying about the writing of a book helping you get your thoughts together, because my book took two and a half years And I don't mind that. I don't mind the fact that eventually I edited everything out, apart from the lines you would write out on a post-it and stick on your fridge, And I don't mind that because the process of writing the book was so hugely beneficial for sorting out my ideas, for working out where I am, what I'm trying to say, what my repetitively teaching and coaching and talking about is just such a good exercise, even if I hadn't published it.

Speaker 1: 13:35

But I think when you think you're going to publish it, it changes it because you're up your game right. You just kind of there's an ending to it. There's a time for me and I know other authors I've spoken to when you just have to go stop now. You just have to release this into the world, because in the end it felt like the longest pregnancy ever, like a 20 month pregnancy. Oh, my goodness, It's like I just have to birth this book so I can move on with my life.

Speaker 1: 14:07

And then, after I published it, my family told me there were loads and loads of errors, despite lots of people checking it, and I just think, yeah, but that's life, there's nothing. There's always errors. There's always going to be errors, right? But yeah, i do think asking ourselves good questions and writing questions and writing stories is hugely helpful, and I haven't actually come across a book coach who has that framework. I just I really really like the idea of that. You've got me really excited about. Ooh, maybe I can get a book out faster now And yeah, yeah, i have a question for you.

Speaker 1: 14:44

Oh God.

Speaker 2: 14:46

Yeah. So during your two and a half years, and then you deciding just, I just need to publish this. Did you hit? did you get hit with nerves, Did you push past them or did you feel like the nerves didn't come because you just made that decision?

Speaker 1: 14:59

Firstly, one of my sayings is not to push through, that everything you want is on the inside of your comfort zone. So I do the opposite. I do it from a place of soothing soothing the brain and it's fear alert first and then publishing. But I'm also the kind of person I'm quite a. I have this rebellious courage, this daring of like oh for goodness sake, just do it. You know that kind of not not in a kind of blasé, i don't care what it's like way, but just like enough already.

Speaker 1: 15:33

I think that feeling that it was long due because I'm very, very good at setting my own deadlines and meeting them and but changing them if they need to be changed. So in the end I was like I just have to get this book out because it feels. It felt very physical to me. I felt like giving birth. I need it to go because I can't. It's taking up too much space in my life and, regardless of how imperfect my mind is telling me that, i know there's people who need to hear this message. So for me it became about it's not about me, it's never going to be perfect Just write the damn book and then publish and write the next one.

Speaker 1: 16:12

So in the end it wasn't nerves, it was almost the opposite. It was almost like I have to do this, i have to do this. And, interestingly, i'd set the end of September last year as the deadline, but then we built a straw bailed garden house, just a building in our garden, and that had to happen in September because of straw, and yeah, and so then I was like I'm no way am I going to put that, i don't do pressure, i don't do overwhelm. So I moved my deadline to the end of October And then it got to like a week before and I was like I cannot move this again. I just couldn't do it. It was just as a matter of integrity for myself. I've made a commitment, and so from that point there's no nerve. There was more nerves about not getting it published, because couldn't bear to let, to let myself down. So yeah, i guess, but along the way there would have been nerves. But no, i don't push through, i refuse.

Speaker 2: 17:07

That's good. So I found that sometimes people do have nerves and they do try to push through, But it doesn't ever work out like you want it to when you try to push through.

Speaker 1: 17:19

Oh tell us more about that.

Speaker 2: 17:21

Well, you end up thinking well, i'll give you an example. So the first book that I ever wrote and published, i said a dub, so my baby was born August 2018. And I was so close to being done with this book when I was pregnant And I was like I'm going to finish, i'm going to publish this before she's born, and so I pushed, pushed, pushed, pushed through and ended up publishing it And you know, it got good reviews, actually great reviews, all five and four stars But I could not look at it. I had to unpublish it because I didn't think it was ready And I had pushed too hard, too fast. And I did get it I actually did get it published like the week before she was born But I just I never felt that it was right And that I had done it too fast, and so I unpublished it and it's been unpublished for four and a half years.

Speaker 1: 18:21

Yeah, I tried to get hold of it and it was not available. Where's the book gone? And there's.

Speaker 2: 18:26

I'm going to republish it one day, but it has to be the right time because I'm not going to push myself through anymore. I know that there is something that I don't like about the ending, And I don't know what it is yet, So we'll we'll find out one day and I'll fix it and republish it.

Speaker 1: 18:43

I really, really like that attitude. Yeah, i, that is completely in line with this podcast and the whole gender rebellion of really tuning in and listening to yourself And then trust, because you've got a huge trust there. When I find out the ending, then I'll publish. There's just an assumption the ending will come And I really believe that. And I think to me it's that whole. When we allow our overwhelmed mind from a fear base to to make all the decisions, that's when we create all of this overwhelm, that's when we start getting closer to burnout because we're out of alignment with ourselves and we. It's just not a good place to be. I just don't believe. I personally don't think the mind is a good place to live in And I think I've got such a negative bias towards fear, so easily distracted.

Speaker 2: 19:40

But also because you've got all of this other, you've got a heart, you've got a body and they all want to join in the conversation And I just, yeah, i really like, i really like your rebellion about the book even though it was successful, Yes, and putting a book out in the world, even So, that was a novel, it was fiction, and even if it's nonfiction where you're your thoughts It's a very vulnerable thing to do And you have to feel comfortable with it, And I don't. I think that there are nerves. And then there's nerves, you know, there's a set of nerves that's. You know, I've never done this before And this feels new and a little bit scary. And then there's nerves that are telling you something you know you need more, you need to do more work on this, or you're not ready for this And you need to think about it more or work on it more. And that one you don't want to ignore.

Speaker 1: 20:34

That's great advice for life.

Speaker 2: 20:39

Yeah, well, yeah listen to your gut with it with the book, because it is a very vulnerable experience to to share your thoughts and put them out there with literally everyone in the world, but it's also a very invigorating experience and a very exciting experience, so it could be both, both and Yeah, but I think you're right, it depends how you do it, like everything, Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:10

So do you have any advice for me on how to? Now? this is interesting, is it Because now I'm thinking, am I going against what you just said? In my head, I have this idea that I could write books faster. So I'm the kind of person who has ideas flying at me. I wake up. I'm an ideas machine And I've always written but never told anyone tried to stop it. So I never understand. When people say they have writer's block, I'm like well, can you tell me how to switch this thing off? So I have Google documents with stuff written that never gets edited because there's just I'm not going to say this too much because I'm really grateful and I don't actually want it to stop, But for me there's something in about Is there a more efficient way for me to get books out into the world without overwhelm, without pushing on through?

Speaker 2: 22:15

Do you feel like you're pushing on through when the ideas come to you so easily? No, i don't push. I think you are One of the special cases who doesn't get writer's block. but I will also say I will also say I don't believe in writer's block. I think it is a muscle. So writing is a muscle and you've clearly worked yours out enough that you've developed strength in it and you can sit down and just write. A lot of people will get stuck in their head and they'll feel like they don't know what to say. They'll say, oh, my muse isn't here or I don't know what comes next. That can be solved. I write blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1: 23:03

When I don't.

Speaker 2: 23:04

That's right.

Speaker 1: 23:05

When I know there's a word and I don't know what it is, i'm not going to waste time thinking about it, so I just literally write. if you read my first copy, it just says blah, blah blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Yeah, I'll put like four or five capital X's because I can control F, control or command F to find those later.

Speaker 1: 23:23

But blah, blah works too. That's the kind of tip I like.

Speaker 2: 23:27

Yeah, it's so easy.

Speaker 1: 23:29

I love that Right, i suppose I could do control, find blah, blah. You could, yeah, in general I find that when I go through it again, then it'll come, or actually, quite often what happens is the same sentence appears again with the missing bit, or the other half of the sentence appears somewhere else, and then it's like a puzzle, a giant puzzle, and you have to. It rearranges itself in my I can see it moving like this, and then I have to, yeah, see what it says. And then something happens.

Speaker 2: 23:58

Yeah. So actually I'll tell you a secret here. The secret is that everybody's first draft is terrible, and so there's no point in getting yourself worked up over I don't know what to write. Just write something stupid. Write blah, blah. Just write something that doesn't logically flow from the thing you wrote before, because books are created in the revision, they're not created in the first draft. So when you go back and you do those revisions and you see you started talking about I don't know how to open an ice cream shop here, and then the next paragraph is how to develop ice cream flavors, and that doesn't make sense logically when you wrote it.

Speaker 2: 24:41

Just having those two pieces there gives your brain enough to work with to fill in the gaps during revisions, and that's how the book is created in the revision. So your brain knows okay, piece A is here and piece C is here. When I'm writing the first draft I don't know what piece B is yet, but when you come back through and do the revisions, your brain sees piece A and piece B and says or piece A and piece C, and it knows what piece B is at that point because it has two things to anchor to. So when you have writer's block quote unquote the thing to do is just write another sentence. It doesn't have to even be on the same topic. Just write something else. Write one more sentence and then you might end up moving that whole next section to another chapter. You might cut it, you might turn it into something else completely, it might become part of your marketing material or it might become a blog post or social media content, but it's not wasted. The only time that you waste anything is when you just stare at your blank page and that blinking cursor and don't put anything down because you're afraid that it's not good enough or it doesn't make sense or it's not on topic. Just write.

Speaker 2: 26:05

And actually there's this quote. It's been attributed to probably four or five different authors. I think I've heard it attributed to Mark Twain and several or more people, so it's very apocryphal. But the quote was I only write when I'm inspired. But fortunately I'm inspired every day at 9 am. And that is how I feel about writer's block that you do not. Inspiration does not come to you. You create inspiration when you sit down to write.

Speaker 2: 26:37

And so, to answer your original question of how can you make writing more efficient, the first thing is is you want to have a plan. You want to have your little map, your hero's journey map to what your reader is going to, where your reader starts the book, where you want them to end up and the steps you need to teach them along the way to get there. There's a format for like self-help books or how-to books that I give my clients And it's kind of just like mix and match. You know, put this in here, fill this in, fill this in and then, surprise, you've written an entire book. You just have to put it together To make it more efficient. You need to have that plan.

Speaker 2: 27:20

I also believe that everybody is very different and everybody needs to have their own little ritual around writing. What do they call it? I mean, i have it stacking. You know, like when I brush my teeth I'm going to also floss, or something like that.

Speaker 2: 27:39

This is finding your particular place and time and circumstances that you write best to create your own little ritual. So maybe it's before you've had morning coffee only between the hours of 5 am and 6 am and you have to experiment to find what works for you, because, you know, i always thought it's better for me to just get it done out of the way. So my you know brain is in good shape in the mornings, but that's not true. I actually don't write very well until I'm tired, and so I write better late in the evening. And fiction, anyway nonfiction, of course I need to still do in the day, but fiction, like I don't know, when I'm tired I can create more fantastical situations with my brain and it just works better. So that's something you can only figure out through trial and error, and so I really believe in writing rituals to help you create more efficiency, because it helps you find the right time, so that you're not, you know, struggling at 4 pm when 4 pm is not a good time for you.

Speaker 1: 28:47

No, no, i don't know. I'm OK with the writing rituals. I think what happens is they don't. So I was back into writing daily writing day and I don't actually believe in the whole. You have to write every day for the rest of your life. I do think that sometimes we stop writing and then we start writing again.

Speaker 1: 29:06

But then the builders came and I've realized that's not. The builders came through my entire routine And I was working around them, but obviously client works more important than writing the book And it's just thrown me completely, particularly as they were very unpredictable. I expect that's normal. All builders work in a pretty unpredictable way. But despite having very, very stable weather which is not usual in England because we get a lot of weather they just I don't understand why, but they managed to screw up my routine for for much longer than expected And I expect it's completely normal, but it's. I've noticed that has thrown me because I'd anchored my ritual and then it's gone out the window And in some ways I quite like that, because I quite like the can you still do the things you want to do, even when all of your anchors, even when all of the space you've created around it, gets thrown in the air.

Speaker 1: 30:08

But I think for me it's not the writing, it's the editing. So I like what you said about the book gets created in the revision, the revision. That's cheered me up, because now that feels different, whereas I notice I have this natural resistance to editing. It's like, well, i've already written that and now I don't understand what's going, and then the next ideas come in. So what's happening to me is I'm just writing and writing and writing, and often the same is the same stuff. So I'll have written exactly the same blog post but not published it six months or a year ago. And I think it's new, but it's not because it's keep snocking on the door until. So basically I I've got a bit of overwhelm of writing, like Too many things going on.

Speaker 2: 31:02

Well, if you've got too many things going on, especially the builders it's going to be overwhelming.

Speaker 1: 31:07

And I don't mean too many things, I mean too many bits of writing.

Speaker 2: 31:11

Oh, too many bits, right? Yes, having too many projects is also a problem of mine. You have to. Well, again, everybody's different, so I work with each client individually. But I would say if, if you're looking at these different bits of writing, i would ask myself Couple questions which one am I most excited by right now And I know they're all exciting, but which one do you have to pick up right now? And then I would say which one is going to grow my business, if that's your goal for your writing? Or the last question I would ask is which one is going to help grow me? to write it out so that I can grow other people, other clients, my business, things like that. So if there's one that you need to explore more right now, because It's something that you're still working out for yourself, that can be very valuable. But if you are trying to reach a specific goal and there is one piece that's going to take you further for that goal, that's one way to prioritize That one.

Speaker 1: 32:14

I'll do, which is interesting, isn't it? with this whole, do I prioritize my self-care and growth over business growth? If I feel like it ought to be done, then it gets done. But I really also like there was a method I learned from a writing course about writing to discover, and I really ask yourself a question and then you just follow it and you just see what comes up, because I do believe we have all the answers inside us And, yeah, so I can see the difference in some, even though they're all for the business. I can see the difference in some of those and I really like your questions. Thank you, i found that really, really helpful, actually.

Speaker 2: 32:56

You're good. That's what I'm here for.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Right, tell me your top tip for listeners of this podcast.

Speaker 2: 33:07

Yeah, so I touched on it a little bit. My top tip would be to create an environment for success for yourself, so that you can write and be successful writing. So I believe that I don't believe that creation happens in a vacuum. You need to have you exist within the influences that are around you, whether it's your kids next door or not. Next door, hopefully they're at your house, your kids making noise in the other room, or the builders are coming. These are all things that influence you, and also like how much sleep did you get the night before? and things like that.

Speaker 2: 33:42

So having a dedicated time, a dedicated space, a dedicated even like perhaps ritual, if you do a little habit, stacking, i think, is a really key way to write without feeling the burnout, because it starts to become just a muscle that you use. The first time that you go to the gym, it's very difficult. The more you go, it's less difficult, and then it becomes something you don't think about and there's no emotion attached to it. You don't have to be overwhelmed or dread or feelings of procrastination. It's just something you do And even if you just devote five minutes a day or some people start with just one sentence a day just write one sentence.

Speaker 2: 34:28

It doesn't have to be. If you can't think of one sentence on your book topic, then write a sentence on something else And it'll all come together and you're just slowly building that muscle and creating that ritual around writing so that it becomes something that feels normal to you. Like you said, i also don't believe in writing every day. I write in seasons. So also being gracious with yourself and allowing yourself flexibility, because if you try to push through it when it's not a good time to push through, it's like trying to push through a sports injury.

Speaker 1: 35:02

You're just going to make it worse. And, as you're saying all of this, i'm just thinking this really applies to achieving anything. It's just, these are skills for life which I think, actually I really think most people would benefit from the practice of writing to discover for themselves And what and the method and philosophy that you have for getting a book out of someone is really, really helpful for achieving anything. I think so too, but I'm biased. I really love that And I was also going to say I'm thinking about when people get that writer's block.

Speaker 1: 35:42

I think I know a really good thing I don't get writer's block, but if I'm getting that resistance to editing would be my thing, then a really good practice I find is to write to discover why. So it's just so I'm feeling resistance to editing. I'm feeling like rebelling and running out in the garden and doing something instead. Just examining that, i feel is like really interesting. So even if you don't want to be a writer, there's so much benefit because it's journaling right. It's just writing to discover who am I, why do I feel like this right now, or not even why, because I think why can be quite an aggressive question, but how am I feeling? What's going on for me, which brings self-awareness, which brings self-knowledge, which brings self-acceptance.

Speaker 2: 36:28

Eventually, yes, And sometimes it's just that resistance is just procrastination, because you have some sort of fear there around writing The more you want to do something right, the more likely you are to procrastinate on it, and so you can create that feeling of writer's block quote, unquote, scare quotes, and that is just not. It's not really a blockage, it's well. It's not a blockage of words, it's a blockage of your feelings of I can do this And that's just something you need to. Yeah, journaling on that is great.

Speaker 1: 37:09

And then you're writing, and then you're writing, so that a by accident.

Speaker 2: 37:14

Yeah, yeah, i think everybody should write to, even if they don't plan to publish a book, even if they don't think they're a writer. It helps you get your thoughts down. And you know there's, i'm kind of a verbal processor. I just like think aloud, but when I sit down to write, the words come out in a much like better way than they come out of my mouth. So that's one way that I'm actually able to get my thoughts down after kind of like processing them in a way that makes sense, and a lot of people I found are like that too.

Speaker 1: 37:49

Yeah, it provides a mirror, doesn't it? It provides a mirror, so it's like a bit of a self-sorting process. Somehow. There's something about well for me when I do that. It's better if I hold a pen actually than typing. I don't know this. Oh, you mean the writer by hand? Okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:11

But if I'm, yeah, if I'm writing with a pen, that's going to have a different impact, although now I'm trying to, i'm deliberately getting myself out of. I need to hold a pen, i need to write with a pen, because then you have to copy it up. So I'm trying to get out of that. But I can only do certain ways of writing with a pen. I think I think there is some research, but I don't know of it, that says when you hold a pen it is different. But I think it's just getting the words out And I think the fewer blocks we put in front of it, the better, the easier we make it. Does it matter? I don't know. I don't know if it matters about the pen. I like pens. Well, i only like this particular pen, which apparently is a much loved. Somebody told me that big biros are one of the most something. I can't remember what you said, something to do with one of the most loved objects, which is hilarious because they're cheap biros.

Speaker 2: 39:05

But they're very distinguished and like appearance, i wonder if that's it, i don't know.

Speaker 1: 39:12

I will only write with these pens.

Speaker 2: 39:14

They're good pens. I have those. They're gasey Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:20

Tell us where we can find out more about you. And also know you have got a nice freebie that people can download if they want to write. So tell us about those. Tell us about that.

Speaker 2: 39:31

Yeah. so if they want to create a ritual for writing so they can start developing that practice. I have a writing ritual tracker And it's more than just a word count tracker. It's an editing tracker and it also lets you track how you're feeling and where you're writing and what you're accomplishing on those days. And then you can start to sort and filter the tracker and see oh, this is where my best time is And this is when I get the most words written, or this is when I get the best editing done, and things like that. And that's available on my website, booksanacamecom. slash writing dash ritual, dash tracker. And then I'm also on Instagram at Holly O'Stara.

Speaker 1: 40:12

Thank you, and we'll put both of those in the show notes for people. And I think I need to go and get that work, need to go and get it. I don't like the whole need to do things. I think I would love to have a tracker to see if I can work out when I want to edit, because in my head I think they're separate things the writing and the editing.

Speaker 1: 40:32

I think they need their own space and their own ritual, and I think that might help me get more stuff out into the world, which would be a delight. Thank you very much, holly. It's just been such a good conversation. I know it's going to help a lot. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 40:47

Thank you so much for having me. I'm going to go ahead and start the chatting.

Speaker 1: 40:53

Thank you so much for being part of this podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please do take a little moment of your time to share it, like it, etc. To help other people find it And if you'd like to know more about my work, please go to wwwtidymarkcouk.