204 Menopause: The Portal to Your Power with Carla Wainwright

This conversation is not about ‘surviving’ menopause.
It’s about claiming power, pleasure, and potency on the other side of it.

Sally sits down with Carla Wainwright, holistic wellness coach, sexual awakening facilitator, and self-described midlife alchemist, for a deeply grounding, myth-shattering conversation about what really happens when women cross the threshold of midlife.

With a background in biology, homeopathy, and over 30 years of embodiment work, Carla bridges science and the sacred in a way that feels both practical and deeply liberating. This isn’t woo for the sake of woo, and it’s not cold science either. It’s the place where metabolism, trauma, hormones, pleasure, and power actually meet.

In this episode, we talk about why menopause is not a decline but a rite of passage. Why so many women feel unprepared for it, and why the years after perimenopause can become the most creative, sexually alive, and authentic chapter of a woman’s life…if she’s supported properly.

Carla shares how her own journey — from wildlife biologist working with endangered species to guiding women through sexual healing and midlife transformation — came full circle when she entered perimenopause herself. What emerged was a model she calls sacred metabolism: tending not just to blood sugar and hormones, but to the nervous system, the inner child, and the feminine life force itself.

We explore why unstable blood sugar can keep women stuck in fight-or-flight, amplify trauma, worsen menopausal symptoms, and quietly erode desire. Why pleasure isn’t indulgent. And why many women lose touch with intimacy, not because something is wrong with them, but because no one ever taught them how to stay connected to their bodies as they change.

This episode also dives into sex in midlife — honestly, tenderly, and without shame. We talk about why desire changes, why stress is the ultimate libido killer, and why reconnection always starts with the relationship you have with yourself. No pressure to perform. No swinging from chandeliers. Just curiosity, safety, and choice.

You’ll also hear:

• Why menopause can make women less people-pleasing and more clear about what they want
• How sexual energy shifts when menstruation ends — and why some traditions call this phase “the second spring.”
• The link between trauma resurfacing and perimenopause
• Why women initiate most divorces between 45–55
• How sacred feminine practices reconnect women to intuition, creativity, and embodied wisdom
• The myths about menopause that quietly serve patriarchy
• Simple daily practices that build momentum when you feel stuck in survival mode

This is a conversation about remembering who you are — in your body, in your desire, and in your power — at a stage of life that has been deeply misunderstood

📲 Connect with Carla:

Website: https://www.carlawainwright.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carlawainwright/

Free Gift: https://www.carlawainwright.com/vibrancyguide

Sally's Links:

Email: info@sallygarozzo.com 

[Free Guide] Healing The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtraumatheguide

[On-Demand Masterclass] How To Heal The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity [£17]:

Transcript

Sally (00:01.502)
So my guest today is Carla Wainwright. Carla is a holistic wellness coach, a sexual awakening facilitator, and a midlife alchemist. She helps women in midlife reclaim vitality, balance hormones, and reconnect with their pleasure and power through a unique blend of metabolic health, nervous system healing, and sacred feminine practices.

With a background in biology, homeopathy, and more than 30 years as an embodiment teacher, bridges science with the sacred to guide women through perimenopause and beyond. So Carla, welcome to the podcast today. How are you this morning?

Carla (00:44.606)
I am great. I'm so happy to be here, Sally.

Sally (00:47.764)
That's fantastic. You are so welcome. So how did you get into this work? I mean, you said that your background is in biology. What kind of biology is that? And how did it lead you into the medical space?

Carla (01:02.99)
So I originally started in the health sciences after high school and transitioned then into wildlife biology because I've always had just such a passion for nature and animals. And so I actually have a master's degree in conservation biology and worked as a wildlife biologist, primarily supporting endangered species for many years. And I, you know,

Sally (01:23.124)
Wow.

Carla (01:31.798)
Some of that job I really loved, some of it, like many jobs, was not so great. And at the same time, sort of as a young adult, I began my own healing journey to really heal myself from sexual trauma that I'd experienced. And also just, I was in this quest to really heal a very dysregulated nervous system that had just been present since childhood.

And so I kind of did this double duty for quite some time. I opened a yoga studio while I was working as a biologist and I would do that in the evenings. And then slowly I really found that my passion came with supporting people, primarily women, on their own healing journey. So I actually ended up giving up my biology career and focusing on embodiment and the power of connecting with the body.

initially through yoga, but then moving into the more sacred practices of tantra and sexual awakening. and then that really became my path through my thirties and forties. And then in my forties, as I started to go through perimenopause, and had my own challenges through that, I began to drop back into my scientific knowledge of really wanting to understand what was happening with the body and how I could support the body.

physically in addition to all of the wonderful embodiment practices, but I really saw the need in my own life and in the women around me to become more metabolically healthy in order to be more easeful in that transition into menopause. And so I kind of in some ways came a little full circle and I'm really grateful for my scientific background because it's actually allowed me to, think delve into the science of metabolic health.

and wellness, yeah, in a really profound way that marries really beautifully with the sacred peace as well.

Sally (03:35.061)
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I always feel that at some point we do come back full circle. I feel like a lot of people that I interview start life in something different, whether it's in a legal profession or corporate or, you know, something completely unrelated. And then as women, because we have so many biological changes, we have to tune into our own bodies. And so something happens, I think, for a lot of us within that.

and we learn all this stuff and then we come back to, or the thing that we did early on, can sort of, so we have the gift of hindsight and it's almost like we have this knowledge of what we could have done differently or if we'd have learned this earlier on, how might that have helped? And so we kind of go back in and try and help those people that are at that stage that we were perhaps. It's so interesting, it really is. So yeah, biology, because I mean, biology is...

really connection to nature, isn't it? how do we, how, do you, do you see that there was some kind of like primal instinct within you early on that was really interested in nature or how things work, like how living organisms work? Was there something within you that, that you perhaps couldn't quite put your finger on?

but that that still exists within you today that makes you passionate about menopause and sexual awakening.

Carla (05:07.908)
absolutely. So nature for me, even as a really young child, was my sanctuary. And it was the place that I felt the safest, in the turmoil of my young life. it was the place that I actually felt like myself and I could just be myself, even though I was on my own. Yeah, and so that connection to the natural world and

I would say that if I remember those times as a child, just being so fascinated and curious about what I was seeing, especially the things that were so small and that people would miss. And so, yeah, absolutely, I do feel like that curiosity and that connection has been a thread through my entire life.

No matter what has been going on nature has always remained that sanctuary for me as it is for so many I mean I hear this over and over again that you know Nature is the one place where people feel like they can actually take an exhale And just actually begin to feel what's happening in the inner landscape of their own beings so

Sally (06:14.835)
Yeah.

Carla (06:22.454)
Yeah, I feel really grateful that I've had such a profound connection with nature and that that's been that thread through my entire life. And it is something that I think, know, modern humans, of course, we like to think that we're so apart from nature and that, you know, we're separate in some way. But of course, we're not. We still very much respond to the cycles of nature, circadian rhythms. We actually need that. And in large part, we're suffering because we don't honor.

our natural cycles and rhythms and that deep connection. So I think there's always an invitation to return back to the very basics that our ancestors have been doing for tens and tens of thousands of years. Because I do think whether you know it or not, that deep connection to nature is within each and every one of us.

Sally (07:12.788)
That yearning to be with nature. Yeah, to be in it. So, menopause then. Why do you see menopause as a powerful portal rather than just a biological transition? I mean, the two are linked, aren't they? It is both a transition and a portal. But what's your take on that?

Carla (07:42.671)
Absolutely, it is both of those things. I think that it's important to see it that way. I, menopause is really a rite of passage. And I wish it was recognized more as that, you we go through rites of passage in our lives, often that are celebrated, right? You know, perhaps our first menstruation, getting married, having a baby, all of these things are things that are celebrated, but menopause is rarely celebrated. It's actually

told to us, although that, of course, that conversation is changing absolutely with podcasts like yours. The narrative is changing in our culture slowly, but that it's seen as a decline rather than some of this powerful portal. And for me, the way that I see menopause is it is this opportunity for a woman to cast off.

so many of the layers and the roles and the expectations that she has in her life and step into a place of deeply embodied power and authenticity in a way that just was not available prior in her life for all kinds of reasons. You know, we have roles to play at various points in our lives. And when we come into this stage of menopause, we actually have the opportunity to start living for ourselves.

So we're not taking care of children typically. We're maybe in a partnership with somebody, but things, the dynamic changes and we can get clarity about what's happening or not what's happening, but rather what it is that we want. And biologically, our bodies are supporting that. So there's a whole shift in the neurochemicals. In our body, we become less people pleasing, which means that we're able to in many.

for many instances for the first time actually saying, you know, this is what I want and it's actually non-negotiable. We have other changes that are happening in our bodies from a neurochemical perspective that just start to give us more clarity and authenticity. It's a very, very potent time. And from an energetic perspective too, I'd love to share that

Carla (10:04.29)
Some of the wisdom traditions also recognize the power that was coming in at this time in our lives. So the Taoists, for instance, talk about the second spring. So the second spring is this time where instead of us losing our sexual energy through menstruation every month, that sexual energy then becomes channeled up to the heart and is available for us to create the most beautiful and expansive life. That sexual energy is our creative life force energy. This is our

inherent power. And so instead of losing that energy, that energy becomes 100 % available to us. Of course, we have to choose that, right? It is a choice and we have to actively be participants in that. But it is this powerful portal, I believe, for the most powerful and potent time in

Sally (10:41.972)
Mm.

Sally (10:52.596)
What do you mean by losing that energy? Instead of losing that energy we can re-channel it into something else. How would we lose that energy?

Carla (11:03.352)
Well, we would lose it through our menses. So through our cycle. Yeah. So, so that energy would be building in the body. And then of course we would be menstruating monthly and then that energy exits the body and then builds up again. So it's always, you know, women are cyclical. We're always in these cycles. But when it comes to sexual energy, when we cross that threshold of menopause, the energy gets channeled to the heart and

Sally (11:05.692)
Okay, I see.

Carla (11:29.55)
throughout the body and it just continues to amplify if we give it the space and the intention to do that.

Sally (11:35.413)
That's really powerful. I hadn't actually thought of it like that. Yeah. And I mean, I've spoken to a lot of people on the podcast. I mean, I had heard it, Denitza Apaline, he's a homeopath, said that the energy moves from the sacral chakra up to the heart chakra, I believe, but I didn't...

Carla (11:43.406)
Hahaha

Sally (12:01.564)
It didn't quite land with me the way that it's just landed as you've spoken. Sometimes you need to hear things twice, don't you? Or in a different context. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay. So the energy, so when we are bleeding, we are cyclical and obviously the energy bill is sort of like rises and falls like these waves. But, know, I'm post menopause now. And so I definitely...

Carla (12:10.722)
Or more. Yeah.

Carla (12:24.238)
That's right.

Sally (12:30.356)
feel that my energy is more linear. don't have as many peaks and troughs in my energy. And I do feel something building. Although I did have a little, it's something weird happened recently with the dark moon. So it was about, I don't know, a week ago we had the dark moon and I was like, God, I feel like I'm having a period. I felt like that sort of slump in energy, like I was having a period. And I was like, oh, okay, it's the dark moon. I wonder if there's a correlation there.

So I'm gonna start tracking my energy against the moon cycle, I think a little bit more now. I've completely forgotten what I was gonna say. Energy and anyway, nevermind. Let me move on to the next question because honestly, these questions are great. How do shifts in our hormones during midlife impact our sense of desire?

creativity and purpose.

Carla (13:34.786)
So, you know, as we were just saying previously, the biological shifts that happen are very real. And as a woman is in this transition period, perimenopause can be a very challenging transition period, we're seeing those hormones fluctuate. So estrogen can go up and down, progesterone is going down.

Sally (13:42.163)
Mmm.

Carla (13:57.879)
And when estrogen drops, it affects serotonin and dopamine. So we have less motivation. We have more mood swings. Our energy is not as high. Changes in testosterone can also affect our libido, how assertive we feel, our drive.

Progesterone means we have less GABA support, right? So GABA is what kind of modulates the cortisol response and helps us feel more calm so we can feel more anxious, we can have more sleep issues. So all of these things kind of can create a perfect storm where we feel our desire begin to tank. We feel that creatively, we just don't have the energy to access that and purpose. All of those things can really be tied up in these shifts of hormones.

the dips are definitely destabilizing, but at the same time, it also creates space for reinvention. And I will say for the women listening who are kind of in the midst of the perimenopausal shifts, that when you're on the other side of menopause, and I can speak to this myself and maybe you too can Sally, that once you're over on the other side, things begin to level out and the desire, creativity and purpose feel much clearer and

Sally (15:09.587)
Mm.

Carla (15:15.704)
feel like you can access them again. you know, if we look at the beautiful analogy of the butterfly, of course, so the caterpillar creates the chrysalis. And then in the chrysalis, it's in this transformation, it completely dissolves and becomes the goo. And it's almost like that perimenopausal journey is a bit of like the complete dissolution, like becoming the goo, so that you can come out on the other side, formed and ready. And then even

when the butterfly comes out, there's this beautiful pause that happens as the butterfly just allows itself, it swings to dry and is able to come through on the other side. So yes, there are these shifts in hormones, but it isn't a forever thing. And there are many things that we can do to actually make it a whole lot easier. I think that there's a little bit of a cultural narrative that it's going to be horrendous and we're gonna just suffer and it's gonna be awful.

I don't think that that has to be true at all. But you know, that the whole idea of desire, creativity and purpose are so, so important to each and every one of us. And so as we begin to redirect energy from reproduction to creativity, we can step more into that space. We can step into possibly if we're drawn to a step of leadership and new forms of desire begin to.

Sally (16:17.3)
Mmm.

Carla (16:40.502)
really there's like a wellspring. So we come back to that idea of the sexual energy, it's not coming out. It's actually becomes this impotent and powerful wellspring that then begins to be the fuel of our lives in that phase.

Sally (16:52.308)
I definitely feel it happening. I definitely feel that change in potency happening and that potency feels more permanent. It feels more grounded, it feels more stabilized in my body rather than it waxing and waning through the whole month and like you know what one week I feel potent next week I feel tired and withdrawn.

I do feel more potent more of the time. And that's such an interesting word, that potency, it came up. I did a transactional analysis course at the weekend and that word potency came up a lot. we lead from potency, we're leading from our adult self rather than the traumatized child self that kind of plays games or...

you know, the victim, rescuer, perpetrator role. We can play these roles when we're stuck in our trauma profile or we're acting from our wounded, traumatized self. We act from one of those three roles usually, but when we start acting from our adult self, we act from potency. And there's also another two that I can't quite remember. I think one is to do with responsibility and...

Yeah, I can't remember the other one. But I love this idea that actually the menopause transition gives us this potency to be able to live out our desire, our creativity, our purpose with this potent energy as the driving force behind that. It feels special. It feels spiritual. feels very strong, actually.

going back to why women will burn at the stake probably because of that potent energy and people not knowing the patriarchy, not really knowing how to deal with it, I guess.

Carla (18:59.042)
Yeah, absolutely. just to just to add to that, I think that one of the reasons that there's this cultural narrative around menopause being in decline is because it served the patriarchy really well. If women step into the most powerful time of their lives in menopause, then wouldn't wouldn't society or a patriarchal society want to suppress that in some way? Right. And so all of the even the word crone, all of these negative connotations that are attached to it.

I think have been very serving to a patriarchal culture.

Sally (19:33.108)
Yeah, yeah definitely. So I'd like to just sort of move into metabolic health actually if that's okay with you because I know you've got lots of good knowledge around this. Can you explain the connection between metabolic health, nervous system regulation and this idea of thriving through menopause?

Carla (19:57.539)
Yeah, I would love to. I really believe that metabolic health is, it is so important to pay attention to for women in the perimenopausal journey and then of course menopause and beyond. I mean, we should be paying attention to it all the time, but the effects of poor metabolic health really start to become apparent in our perimenopausal journey. So from a physical standpoint, our metabolic health really determines how a body

how well a body manages our blood sugar, how well it manages inflammation and how much energy we have access to. So when we are metabolically unhealthy, and I should say, because it's quite a staggering statistic, that this is from the United States, but I imagine it's probably pretty similar across the world, that only 8 % of people are metabolically healthy. That's insane. Right.

Sally (20:51.573)
That's mad. Yeah.

Carla (20:55.864)
So 92 % of us are not metabolically healthy, right? In our modern, in our current modern world. So what this means is that we are constantly under the influence of blood sugar instability and this puts enormous stress on the nervous system. So we have spikes and crashes for women.

in this transition, this will amplify all of her symptoms. It will amplify her mood swings, her anxiety, the hot flashes, all of the symptoms that she's experiencing because her blood sugar is not stable. It also really dysregulates the system. Anyone who's experienced trauma, it keeps you in that trauma loop because the body doesn't feel safe. It's called the HPA axis, the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, which is

what connects us to our stress response is kind of put on high alert all the time. So your amygdala is basically continually with all these blood sugar spikes, continually feeling like it's under threat and attack. And so if you've had trauma in earlier in life, a lot of the time when women are moving into perimenopause, the experience of that trauma becomes heightened once again and becomes very, very difficult to navigate.

So we can end up in this continual cycle of fight or flight, which then dampens our hormones even further. So of course there's a natural progression of our hormones declining, that has to happen, that is what is supposed to happen, but it is amplified by being in poor metabolic health. So conversely, if our metabolism is, if we're metabolically healthy,

We have more brain clarity, our mood is more regulated, we feel safer in our bodies, we're more resilient, and it creates a foundation for thriving. So addressing metabolic health through what we're eating, when we're eating, making sure we're getting enough sunlight, managing the stress in our bodies, all of these things become so, so important, not only to navigate the perimenopausal transition with more ease,

Carla (23:15.042)
but also when we're on the other side that we can really thrive and step into this portal of power and incredible opportunity that awaits us with full and vibrant health. So my message to women is you have to start paying attention to some of this stuff now. It is so, so important. I always say to myself, my future self, my 90 year old self that's hiking mountains and is a super badass, she's thanking me every day for the decisions I'm making now.

So future cast yourself, like what do you see yourself as in the future? And then have her thank you for the decisions that you're making each and every day.

Sally (23:52.95)
I love that. That's such a beautiful tool to do actually in your imagination to visualise that older version of you just being so grateful for the love, care and attention that you gave her and the knowledge that you absorbed and how you acted on that. Yeah, it's lovely. And I love how you talk about this interplay between metabolic health and trauma because I come primarily

to menopause through a trauma lens, a childhood trauma CPTSD lens. And I can see how our trauma, our childhood trauma can affect our menopause symptoms severity. And so when I'm working with people, I help them resolve their trauma and those imprints and sort of bring the inner child, the frozen lost inner child that's sort of floating around in the psyche. I bring

them into the current warmth of the adult. But what I love about your take is that we actually can't address our trauma unless our metabolic health, unless we've got some semblance of metabolic health, because we're always going to be, if we try to address the trauma, but we're still metabolically poorly, and we're peaking and troughing our blood sugars all over the place, and we're highly inflamed, and we have low energy and brain fog.

we're not going to have the resilience in order to do what we need to do to support that inner child. I mean, I do think the two kind of lock in a bit like this. I'm interlacing my fingers. I think there is probably a path or a moment where they interlink. By looking after your inner child, maybe you'll be more motivated to support your metabolic health. You'll have more motivation, you'll have more...

energy and inspiration to create healthy meals and to not snack in between meals and things like that or to do what we need to do to support that lifestyle. But equally, sometimes if we want to do the trauma work and we just find ourselves butting our heads against a brick wall, we just can't do it, it might actually be worth addressing some of the nutritional and lifestyle aspects.

Sally (26:20.703)
first to give us that clarity and the ability to regulate our nervous system. Cause if you imagine your nervous system is dysregulated and you're going into do some regression or some trauma work and you open everything up. Yeah. Do you have a rooted enough system, a resilient enough system to be able to deal with those wobbles that that pathway might bring up for you?

So yeah, I think that's a really, really good point that you raised there actually. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Go on.

Carla (26:55.31)
Absolutely. And I do agree with you that what's beautiful about so many of these healing modalities is they do interconnect. It's not an either or. It's not that you have to do one to be able to do the other. They do go hand in hand. We have to tend to the inner child, the emotional body and the physical body. They're both so important. And this is actually what I term as the sacred metabolism. So the sacred metabolism is

the physiological metabolism we've just been talking about in terms of metabolic health, but there's also the other part of the metabolism, your energy metabolism, which your inner child is part of that, the sacred feminine is part of that, all of the, have to come together. we are not, science has separated us for so long that we're an entire whole holistic being. So absolutely, they do need to go hand in hand. And I think that

women thrive best when the approach really gives the space to allow all of those pieces to come together.

Sally (28:00.02)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I would love to talk about sex a little bit, if that's okay. We haven't spoken about sex for a while on the podcast. Okay, so why do so many women struggle with intimacy during midlife? And how can they perhaps start to rekindle connection?

Carla (28:06.99)
Always.

Sally (28:26.153)
with themselves and their partners if they want to? And is it okay to not want to as well?

Carla (28:33.262)
Well, I should say, of course it's okay to not want to, right? We all have agency and I think if we come back to this whole idea of not people pleasing, know, being very clear about what your wants are, I think is so, so important. So, you know, this is a very common time for women to struggle with intimacy. And I think the greatest number of divorces happen between 45 and 55 and over 70 % of them are initiated by women, which is also really interesting.

And I think intimacy is a huge part of that. So if we just start, of course, with the hormonal changes, can have less vaginal lubrication. Our arousal response can shift. We might feel super tired. If we come back to the whole metabolic piece, our body's changing. A lot of women gain weight at this time in their lives. And we have an enormous amount of stress. The buffers for stress aren't there.

is a pleasure killer. It just is, right? So because we are less resilient to stress and we are experiencing more of it, then our desire evaporates. you know, as many of us know, like men for sex for men is the way that they often for them are, is one of their coping strategies with stress. That's not the case for women. Women need to be able to let go of stress in order to be able to, you know, waken arousal.

It's not true for every woman, but it's sort of a generalization, of course. And I think that there's a lot of shame around midlife sexuality, and this adds more layers of disconnection. So again, this whole idea that, well, you know, that it's a decline and we have a youth obsessed culture and we need to look like we're 25 all the time and we need to sexually perform like we're 25 all the time, all of these things. So again, it creates like this convergence of

Sally (30:03.893)
show.

Carla (30:30.156)
a lot of challenges that really add on to just the struggle that a woman might be feeling around intimacy. So how do you begin to rekindle connection? So in the work that I do, the self connection is the place to start. So many women actually have no idea what they really like.

Right? They've been kind of going through the motions. They probably had lots of enjoyment, but they aren't really totally clear on what it is that they like sexually or in intimacy. So creating space to find out what that is. I am very much always not what do I want to say? Not in favor of, but like I always recommend to create space in your schedule for pleasure.

Sally (31:24.073)
Yeah.

Carla (31:24.28)
Right, pleasure is, so as I said earlier, like stress is the killer of pleasure, but pleasure is the antidote to stress. So this is so, so important. And women need to make space for this. It is so easy to prioritize everything in your life and put pleasure last because we're hardwired as women to choose stress over pleasure. There is an evolutionary reason for that. We did that because that's what kept us safe. You know, if we chose pleasure over

being aware of some stressful thing in our environment, we might've been eaten, let's say. But in our modern context with so much stress all the time, it is not serving whatsoever. So we have to be very, very intentional. making sure that every day you pause to find pleasure.

So one of the practices that I invite women to do is to find five pleasurable moments every day and you can connect those with your senses, right? So what could I look at that gives me pleasure? Now, I know we're talking right now about sexual intimacy, but often for women, particularly who may feel so disconnected from their pleasure potential, let's even just take it a step away from sexual pleasure and just like pleasure can mean so many things.

Right? Can you look at a beautiful painting or piece of artwork in your home that just lights you up and just look at it for two minutes or a minute even and see what that hap what happens as a result of that. Can you listen to a piece of music that evokes like a beautiful feeling in your body? Can you touch your softest blanket that you just enjoy? Is there a smell that you essential oil that you love? Is there a strawberry or some fruit that you can take time?

So awakening the senses and being present with it. This is so, so important. In the way that we live now, we have this kind of like goldfish attention span and we don't actually let ourselves just be present with moments of pleasure. So this is the first step. Then the next step is to schedule in that time for you to actually be with your body, right? Maybe you've never self-pleasured.

Sally (33:28.277)
Hmm.

Carla (33:41.359)
Maybe you have a lot of hangups around that. So you could do that even with clothes on. Maybe you're feeling ready to give yourself a beautiful breast massage with some lovely oil. Maybe you want to really enjoy a different kind of masturbation practice, which instead of just like, you know, getting the orgasm one and done as soon as possible, giving yourself, you know, a lot more time to luxuriate in that practice. So learning to,

Sally (34:05.557)
and

Carla (34:08.076)
learning and being curious about what feels good in this body now. It will not be the same as what felt good in your body even five years ago, right? And you have to be curious about that. Nobody can do that except you. So the rekindling of desire begins with self-connection. And then at the same time, working on communication, know, nobody taught us to have good relationships.

Sally (34:13.012)
Mm.

Carla (34:35.886)
My parents didn't, society didn't, TV didn't, you know, so we kind of like try to figure it out and nobody really wants to ask for help because you're supposed to just magically know how to do relationships perfectly. It's ridiculous, right? You know, if you needed to learn how or if you needed help with your sink, you'd get a plumber, right? So someone who knows how to do it. So it's like there's so many resources out there, right? So you might have to

Sally (34:58.781)
Yeah.

Carla (35:04.418)
get some resources to be able to figure out how to create communication. And then exploring new kinds of intimacy with your partner based on what you do in your own self-connection practice and creating more safety. there's lots of pieces to this, but the connection to yourself is really what is so important because it's from that place that you will be able to express what you want with someone else and be able to rekindle that desire.

Sally (35:32.822)
Hmm, that makes so much sense. And I think sex changes so much as we cross this threshold. You know, the way that it, the way, there's, I think there's like a lot of shoulds. I think we are conditioned, as you said before, that sex needs to look a certain way, that if we're not swinging from the chandeliers, if we're not, you know, if we're not doing it like a porn star, or if we don't have.

I don't know, a pristine vulva, shall we say, you know, and everything looks perfect, then it's not worth doing or we're not desirable or, you know, we need to be ashamed of ourselves. But our bodies change, everything about our bodies change, the look, the smell, the texture, everything about those body parts changes. And I guess it's...

if we're not comfortable with that, how can we expect someone else to be comfortable with that? we've got to be really, or start to get comfortable with those changes and perhaps look to look for other role models, look for other people who are getting comfortable with themselves.

have the conversations really, talk about it. I know it can be a cringey subject, I totally get that and totally understand, but if we can just start to talk about it a little bit, perhaps we start to normalise it a bit more. And I think it's in that normalisation that we reduce the shame around it that can come up for so many women at this time in their life.

Carla (37:16.748)
Yeah, absolutely. This is the power of women's circles, right? Of coming together as women and having these conversations. I've led women's circles for many years and when we come to topics like this around sex, especially in midlife, I hear over and over again women saying, I thought I was the only one. I didn't realize there were others that felt the same way that I do, right? So absolutely just.

Sally (37:18.037)
Yeah.

Carla (37:41.432)
taking the shame away and normalizing the experience and creating support is so important.

Sally (37:46.856)
Yeah, definitely. Talking of women's circles, I wanted to ask you about sacred feminine practices. I don't know if women's circles are part of that for you or if there's other aspects that go to make up this idea of sacred feminine practice. What is sacred feminine practice and how does it play into helping women move through the menopause transition?

with a sense of, I don't know, power, grace.

Carla (38:21.848)
So I really feel like we need to go back to the wisdom traditions in the world that recognized the power of both the sacred feminine and the sacred masculine. And they would have practices that would support men and women to really be really embodied, embodied being like, I am fully in my body. I can feel what's happening in my body and I can source.

the deep, powerful intuition that resides there, especially for women. So many of us are, you know, we're disembodied, right? It's like we're a walking, talking head, but we don't really know or feel what's happening in our body and have trouble discerning that deep inner wisdom. And so this is the role of sacred feminine practices. So for instance, you know, in the Taoist tradition, there are so many practices through qigong.

that come from this, even the whole, we talked earlier about this, the second spring that comes from the book of the yellow emperor that was written in 2600 BC. This is like 4,600 years old. There are practices in there of, you know, how women can channel sacred feminine energy through different types of movement patterns, through different types of breath work.

Sally (39:31.433)
Mm.

Carla (39:46.927)
These things anchor women in their bodies in ways that our modern life cannot do. Ritual, ceremony, all of these things are so important. This is encoded in our DNA. Our ancestors did ritual and ceremony connected to the earth, to nature, to cycles, the moon. All of these things were so important. And when we connect to this, a remembrance begins to stir up and

and live in the body. think it awakens that sexual life force energy we talked about earlier and really begins to connect us with our innate power. It is so, so important. And so you don't have to necessarily even know practices, although you can find them, you know, there's so many resources online and in books and things like that, but simply creating your own rituals, like being in,

being on the earth, know, lying on the earth. One of the most powerful practices is just womb breathing of lying on the earth on your belly and letting your womb connect with that particular location on the planet and just receiving like what can the earth like bring me into my body, into my womb space and then just listening like what is alive here, what wants to be said, what wants to be spoken. So all of these kinds of things are

are so essential for women to...

come back into this incredible vessel that has the potential to feel and provide so much deep wisdom and insight that we have largely become disconnected to. So I encourage women to, if you're curious about this, do some research, see if you can find a women's circle with a teacher who can teach you these things and then they can be integrated into your life. It's incredibly powerful.

Sally (41:27.186)
Hmm.

Sally (41:41.63)
Yeah, I really enjoy sitting in circle. I don't do enough of it. And I always, always think I don't have time for it or there's nothing around, there's nothing local. But when I do, when I finally do go and sit in circle, I'm so nourished by it. It feels so enlivening. It really stokes the life force and particularly that feminine life force within me that often I think

we can be so disconnected from because of the linear, you know, patriarchal system that we live in that's, that doesn't, that's not supportive of our cyclical life. And so we exist, we exist in that, that linear way. But when we do sit in circle, something really magical happens. You feel nourished, you feel connected, you feel like,

yeah me too and also I get you you know that that I always get tingles when I get that like that resonance always gives puts the hairs on the back of my neck up and I just get this lovely it's almost like angel feathers you know just brushing my skin and it's to me that's a resonance signal you know that you're in tune with something or that something is in tune with you it's like a it's a it's a subtle

pleasurable yes feeling in your but it's not like a deep guttural yes it's like a kind of very soft on the skin sort of yes do you know what I mean?

Carla (43:22.702)
I absolutely know what you mean. I've experienced that many times. Yeah, the Power of a Women's Circle is, I think it harkens back to that deep remembrance. there's, women have been doing this for centuries and centuries and centuries and coming together like this is, it's just so powerful.

Sally (43:41.237)
Mmm, yeah, you've given me a thought. You've given me a thought I should set up a women's circle in Brighton. Okay, so what are some of the common myths about menopause that you would like to debunk?

Carla (43:59.565)
I would love to. So the first is that menopause ends sexuality and your sexual life. So not true. It does for some women, but that should be a choice, right? Not because they're feeling like they don't have any other option. Many women in their 60s, 70s and beyond report having the best sex of their lives. And it really opens new realms of intimacy and deeper pleasure. So it changes.

but can be the best sex yet. So that's myth number one. The next one would be that symptoms are unavoidable. So I think that we're just told that it's going to be really difficult and absolutely there are going to be shifts and challenges, but that if we pay attention to our lifestyle, our metabolic health and get support, this can radically shift the experience. does not have to be

Sally (44:31.529)
Yeah, I like that.

Carla (44:57.602)
you know, terrible, absolutely. I know that, you know, deep in my bones. Another myth is that women lose value after menopause. So that menopause is a decline somehow. And I think that, you know, as we've talked about it is this portal of stepping into your wisdom self, right? The wise woman, a time of incredible creativity and leadership. And so in fact, I think we become

Sally (45:02.023)
Yeah.

Carla (45:27.286)
even more valuable to ourselves, to our families, and to society.

Sally (45:28.947)
Hmm.

Sally (45:33.823)
Yeah.

Carla (45:35.215)
Another myth is that only medical interventions work. Right? I think that the medical system is really good at medicalizing everything. Right? And so, yeah, exactly. So, you know, if you just take this cream, then everything's going to be okay. And I'm not saying you shouldn't take the cream. But we do need to do, we need to do more than just the cream. We need to address

Sally (45:48.873)
Yeah, well, it's what they do, yeah.

Carla (46:05.164)
the sacred metabolism. We need to address our lifestyle. We need to bring back the energy of the sacred feminine. We need to do the deep healing work. We need to do all of those things. And then if we need additional support through creams or whatever that is, then they will be so much more effective because we are treating the whole entire woman. So those are just some of the myths that I think I would love

Sally (46:31.177)
Yeah.

Carla (46:34.488)
to see evaporate from the current conversation.

Sally (46:37.233)
Yeah, yeah, my husband went up to Wembley Stadium a couple of nights ago. The band Oasis were playing and he got tickets for that. And on the way home, he had an absolute nightmare trying to get home. I think it took him six hours to get home, back from London to Brighton. And he was on the tube, the tube was packed and a woman fainted as she was...

as the doors were opening, she sort of fainted and kind of fell onto the platform. And he's a nurse and he ran over to see if there was anything that he could do. And she was sort of coming around and he asked her, are you menopausal or how old are you? She said, I'm 47. And he said, do you think you could be menopausal? And she absolutely raged at him. I'm not menopausal.

poor guy obviously because he's heard me talk about menopause so openly it's a natural transition this that and the other but he was so shocked that someone else could be offended by asking that question are you menopausal and it made me think where does that offense come from where does it come from you know because it's it's I understand

I think I understand, as a therapist, excuse me, as a therapist, you have to take a very broad perspective and you have to ask the question, why a lot? And you have to dig underneath the surface. So I kind of get where it comes from, but it was such a shock to my system when he was telling me that story and a shock to him as well, that anyone could be offended by that question, are you menopausal? Do you have any thoughts around that at all? And that's a bit of a random one, but.

Carla (48:26.87)
Yeah. Well, just to add to that, I am shocked by how many women in their 40s don't consider themselves in midlife and find the term midlife somehow difficult or unkind or something like that. Would she? Okay, you know, that's fine.

Sally (48:28.533)
haha

Sally (48:41.332)
Yeah.

Carla (48:52.142)
I think this very much relates to the obsession with youth culture. so, you know, menopausal, the association that this is it, this is a decline, I'm gonna be cast off. I'm gonna be, if I'm menopausal, then I'm old and I'm withered and all of the associations that go with that. And so my heart really breaks for that woman. I mean, she probably, anyway, that felt so...

Sally (49:10.837)
Yeah.

Carla (49:20.91)
It's so indicative of how women feel in our society that if we're deemed menopausal, then we're just, we're invisible and we're useless and we don't have value and we can't hold a position of any meaning, you know, any meaning in society. And so that probably in her moment of, you know, stress of whatever was going on was just coming through the depths of her. Like that was her, her fear response that's encoded by all of these beliefs.

Sally (49:29.876)
Yeah.

Sally (49:47.167)
year.

Carla (49:50.37)
most of which aren't really hers, but have been thrust upon her and all of us. So that to me is just, there's a lot of work to do.

Sally (49:55.113)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I just thought it was really curious. And also shows that there is perhaps a lack of a defined idea about what menopause is, because maybe people who haven't been in the menopause space or sphere as we are, perhaps don't even consider that menopause can be anything other than when you don't have periods anymore. You know, so it's like...

Of course, if you're still bleeding, even though you're having symptoms, you're not going to consider yourself menopausal. Yeah.

Carla (50:35.352)
Yeah, absolutely. I wish your husband had your business card and he could have just listened to this podcast.

Sally (50:41.587)
Well, I did say to him, I'm pretty sure you've probably planted a seed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe she's gone home and started Googling, but then goodness knows what you find. So, for women who feel really overwhelmed or stuck in survival mode, what's one small step that they can take today to shift

Carla (50:48.642)
Yeah, I'm sure, yeah.

Sally (51:11.461)
into a state of thriving.

Carla (51:16.632)
So it really is all about just creating some momentum. So it can be as simple as starting with your breath, feeling your feet on the ground and just taking five deep breaths, right? In those five deep breaths, just being really present with what you're noticing. And then what's happened in my body as a result of taking those breaths. You can come back to those five pleasure moments that I talked about earlier.

I think every woman needs to ensure she's done five pleasurable things that boosts oxytocin. It's the antidote to cortisol. And yeah, really weave that into her day and then take a moment at the end of the day to just remember what each of those things were. Right? That's another beautiful practice you can do. And from a metabolic standpoint, women need to more protein.

Sally (52:01.845)
Hmm.

Carla (52:11.05)
Make your first meal of the day have protein so that you're feeling energized and you have that capacity to have more energy in your body and get more sunlight.

Sally (52:23.315)
Yeah, and those

Carla (52:23.854)
Stop hanging out inside, go outside.

Sally (52:27.899)
Yeah, yeah, I'm really feeling that one and screens as well. They're so addictive, aren't they? But yeah, it's those choices, isn't it? Those choices in the moment. Every moment there is potential for a new choice, new choice, new choice. How we can either frame something. I was working on this today with a client about framing how she sees something. Do you see it as something?

trying to think of an example of what we were talking about.

I can't remember now, it was basically, are you framing it negatively? Are you framing it through the lens of your trauma? Or are you framing it through the lens of your choice? Like your autonomy? get, I see it. It was to do with people coming over. That's right. People coming over to her house. Are you, or getting a lodger?

Are you framing it through the lens of your trauma? you know, I'm weak because I need to be around, I need someone to live with me. Or are you framing it to do with your autonomy, your choice? I get, I'm curious about living with people because I'm interested in people. It gives me a sense of connection. Yeah. So it's like same decision, but the way that you see it is very, very different.

way that you choose to see it and that's not anything you need to pay for, that's not anything you, it's not a cream that you've got a rub on your skin, it's not a protocol, it's not an ice bath that you've got to do or you don't have to do fasting, you just get to make a choice in your head about how you want to do the next moment. Do you want to just do the next moment?

Sally (54:22.757)
easily like I'm just gonna take a breath right now and choose that I'm gonna wrap this podcast up with a sense of joy, gratitude and release yeah it's nice isn't it it's nice to know that we've got that that choice and I think what you've said there those small those little things that we can do you know massive change is built on little tiny steps

Carla (54:50.926)
Absolutely, absolutely. And it is really just about creating. It's less about motivation. It's more about momentum. It's always more about momentum. Yeah.

Sally (54:58.1)
Yeah.

Yeah, and those small things help me to build momentum. Yeah. I've really, really, really enjoyed this conversation. You've got a lovely, warm, relaxed, calm, regulated energy, which is great. Yeah, I believe you have a free gift. Is that right? It's called the Vibrancy Guide.

Carla (55:04.396)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Carla (55:21.57)
I do, I do. just it, beautiful segue. So if women are listening and they want to know what some of these shifts are that they can do to create momentum, this is what this guide is for. So it is to help bring you back into feeling really great in your body and everything is very small and doable. And so you can find that at vibrancyreset.com.

Sally (55:44.113)
Lovely. And where do you hang out on social media mostly?

Carla (55:49.612)
I'd say Instagram. Yeah.

Sally (55:50.835)
Yeah, Instagram's your thing. It's just at Carla Wainwright, isn't it? Yeah, perfect. Nice and easy. Well, look, thank you so much, Carla. Like I say, it's been a lovely, lovely chat. Thank you.

Carla (56:03.715)
I've so enjoyed our time together. Thank you so much.

Sally (56:06.325)
That's brilliant.