207 Attunement: The Thing You Didn't Know You Needed

If you’re tired in a way rest doesn’t touch…
If you’ve done the work but still feel slightly on edge…
If being “strong” or “capable” no longer feels like something you want to keep doing…

This episode is for you.

This is a quiet, spacious fireside conversation about something that sits underneath anxiety, exhaustion, relationship strain, and the sense of feeling subtly disconnected from yourself, especially in midlife and menopause.

This is about attunement and what happens in the body when it’s missing.

If you want to feel:

• less braced against life
• more settled inside yourself
• understood without having to explain
• calmer without being told to “relax”
• a sense of warmth, steadiness, and inner permission

…this episode is an invitation to listen.

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Transcript

Sally Garozzo (00:01.358)
So think about a tuning fork. When you strike one tuning fork and bring it near another that's tuned to the same frequency, the second tuning fork begins to vibrate too, in concert with the original one. Not because it was activated itself, but because of its proximity to the original tuning fork.

the resonance of the second tuning fork simply comes alive through this proximity, this entrainment, this co-regulation. Well, we humans are tuning forks too.

So I want to talk today about something that I think sits underneath a lot of what people struggle with, especially in midlife, especially around menopause, especially in relationships and especially in that low level constant sense of exhaustion that so many people carry because it's not something that most people have a language for. In fact,

I think it's something many people don't even know that they're missing. See, most of us can, most of us can.

Sally Garozzo (01:27.81)
You see, in my experience...

Sally Garozzo (01:35.192)
You see, in my experience in working with clients, most of us can name what hurts very easily. We can name the overwhelm, we can name the anxiety, we can name feeling unseen or disconnected, or, you know, maybe feeling like we're too much or not enough. We can name that sense of always being on or that feeling of just not feeling quite settled. But naming what hurts is not

the same as naming what is absent. And what I see again and again, both professionally and personally, is that people are trying to fix symptoms without realizing that what's actually shaping their inner world is something quieter, something more subtle, something that doesn't announce itself as a big trauma or damage or dysfunction. It's the absence of attunement.

Now, if that word feels a bit clinical, just stay with me for a moment because I want to make this as visceral as I possibly can. Attunement isn't a concept you understand with your head, it's something that your body recognizes as a sensation. And it recognizes it pretty much immediately, like those tuning folks resonating together.

you notice when it's there and when it's not there, especially if you're paying attention. Attunement is what happens when another human being is actually with you, acknowledging you, not fixing or managing, not trying to reassure you out of your experience, not analyzing you, just with you in your experience. And that requires

a lot of intentionality from the person that is attuning or intending to attune to someone. And a lot of people, especially our generation, didn't grow up with that. And this isn't because our parents were bad, it's not because something awful necessarily happened, but because emotional presence is a skill that many people were never taught.

Sally Garozzo (03:59.657)
and never received themselves. So what happens is this, you grow up in an environment where you're cared for, maybe even loved, but not consistently met where you are. Perhaps your feelings were responded to, but maybe they...

Sally Garozzo (04:24.43)
Perhaps your feelings were responded to but just slightly off beat or like too quickly or with advice or minimizing or distraction or with just like you'll be fine, don't make a fuss, let's look on the bright side. And again, none of this has to be malicious. We're not blaming anyone. and by the way, there is such a thing as healthy blame, but that's for another episode. But what your nervous system learns when you're not met.

skillfully, very quietly and subtly, is that your internal state isn't something that can just exist as it is. We learn that we can't really trust our internal state, we can't trust our feelings.

Sally Garozzo (05:16.258)
We can't trust that our feelings will work themselves out. What we are taught is that our internal state has to be adjusted, improved upon, explained, over explained, micromanaged. And when that happens over and over again, something very specific forms inside of you. You become incredibly good at adapting. You learn to...

You learn an external locus of attention. You learn to read rooms. You learn to regulate other people's feelings and emotions. You learn to anticipate reactions. You learn to quickly move away from your own discomfort and into other people's. Essentially you learn to hold yourself together.

Sally Garozzo (06:08.48)
Essentially, you learn to hold yourself together in the absence of being held.

And if you're listening to this thinking, well, yeah, but that's just life, right? That's those are the cards who've been dealt. This is incredibly common. Of course it is. So common that most people don't realize they're doing it and they...

Sally Garozzo (06:51.31)
And if you're listening to this thinking, well yeah, but that's just life, right? That's just how it is. Yeah, you're right, it's incredibly common. So common that most people don't realise they're doing it and they certainly don't realise it has a cost. They just assume that the way they feel is wrong. Like it's a personal failing or it's a mindset issue or it's anxiety or it's hormones.

or something they should be able to fix by now. But what if the issue isn't that you're broken? What if the issue is that something essential was missing and you had no way of knowing what it was? Because you can't miss what you never had and you can't miss what you never had language for. And this is where people often say things like, yeah, but nothing terrible happened to me.

And that's so true for so many people. There wasn't a big event. There wasn't obvious abuse. There wasn't chaos or neglect in the way we usually think about trauma. There was just a very, very subtle miss attunement. A sense that you were loved but not always met. That you were responded to but not always met where you were in your body, in your felt sense.

And because of that, learned very early to move away from your own inner experience in order to stay connected to your caregivers. You have to, you had no other choice. And that adaptation works. It works brilliantly actually until it doesn't. Because what tends to happen later in life, particularly in midlife, is that the strategies that kept you functioning,

start to become exhausting. You notice you're tired in a way that sleep doesn't fix. You notice that being strong no longer feels empowering. You notice that you don't want to keep explaining yourself or doing the emotional labor for everyone else or holding everything together anymore.

Sally Garozzo (09:09.186)
And often people come into this phase of life thinking that something wrong, but from a nervous system perspective, something has actually gone right because your nervous system is communicating to you. It's saying, we're no longer willing to keep compensating for this lack of attunement. And this is where the idea of holding space becomes important.

because that is the containment or container, I should say, for attunement.

But before I even talk about holding space, I just want to stay here for a moment because it's worth saying. Because for many people, the most important part of this episode will be this realization that so much of what they've been trying to fix is not a flaw or a disorder or a failure of resilience. It's a response to having to grow up

or exist in a society without being consistently attuned to. And again, this isn't about blaming parents or anything like that. It's just about naming reality, like your reality, your lived experience. And many adults alive today were raised in families and cultures that just didn't prioritize emotional presence. Instead, they prioritized coping. They prioritized getting on with it.

They prioritised being stoic and okay. And when you grow up in that kind of environment you never learn how to rest inside another person's presence. Let alone your own presence. What you do learn is to how to

Sally Garozzo (11:10.264)
What you do learn is how to stay alert, how to monitor, how to function, how to over function. And that functioning can look very successful from the outside, but inside there is often an emptiness. A sensu...

Sally Garozzo (11:35.235)
A sense of never quite landing fully grounded inside yourself. A sense of always being slightly braced against the world. It's this feeling that even when things are absolutely fine, even better than fine, something is missing. And if this resonates, I just want to say this very, very clearly. There is nothing wrong with you. There's a reason your body feels the way it does.

And as we go through this episode, I'm not gonna give you techniques to fix yourself because the idea of fixing can often contribute to your pain. I'm not gonna tell you how to be better at holding space, but what I do want to do instead is let you experience something that your nervous system might recognize immediately. Because when attunement is present, your body knows it, it feels it, it just softens, it relaxes, it slows.

it stops scanning for danger and goes inside to a felt sense of warmth and safety. And that recognition is firstly a felt sense.

Sally Garozzo (12:56.886)
it stops scanning and goes inside to warmth and safety. And that recognition is firstly a felt sense in the body and next it can feel emotional, but it's definitely not intellectual or cognitive. And you've probably experienced this for yourself, crying not because you're sad, but because you feel met.

It's like finally someone sees me. Finally I am allowed to just be and the floodgates open. I've experienced it many times. So if you're listening...

Sally Garozzo (13:43.171)
So if, as you're listening to this, you notice your breath changing or your shoulders dropping or your jaw unclenching, that's not a coincidence. That's your system responding to this topic in a way that goes, yes, yes please. So let's take a breath.

Sally Garozzo (14:07.116)
And as we stay with this idea of attunement for a bit longer, let's just move back in time a little bit. Because when we talk about childhood in this context of attunement, I want to be really clear about something. This isn't about digging for blame. It's not about finding fault in anyone. And it's not about proving that something was bad enough for you to have trauma. No, no, no.

This is about understanding how a nervous system learns to survive in the environment it grows up in. Because every child adapts, that's what children do. Because they don't have the ability to assess whether their environment is optimal. They don't have the ability to stand back and think, hmm, I'm not sure my parent is emotionally aligned to me. They simply just adjust themselves to what's available.

And those adjustments are intelligent, they are smart and they are automatic. Some might say unconscious. If your emotions were met with discomfort, you probably learned to suppress them. If your feelings overwhelmed the adults around you, you probably learned to minimize them. If there was anxiety in the room, you probably learned to scan for threat and danger. If there was emotional absence or coldness,

you would have turned that in on yourself and made that mean that you weren't lovable enough. None of this is conscious. It happens below language, below memory, below story. It happens in the body. It happens in the nervous system. And often when people think back to childhood, they tend to remember facts.

not patterns. They remember school holidays, they remember routines and whether their parents were strict or kind or present or distracted. But what shapes us most isn't the fact

Sally Garozzo (16:10.04)
But what shapes us most isn't the facts of childhood, it's not the events themselves, it's the felt sense of what it was like to be us in the presence of other people. Did you feel received appropriately? Were you allowed to have your own opinions, thoughts and feelings? Or were you constantly micromanaged and not allowed to find your own way? And if you did try to find your own way, did one of your parents go cold on you?

Did you feel like you had to read the room before expressing yourself? Because even very loving environments can be emotionally misattuned. You can be adored and still feel unseen. You can be cared for and still feel alone with your feelings. And again, this doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong. It means emotional and energetic presence.

Sally Garozzo (17:21.166)
And again, this doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong because emotional and energetic presence is really subtle. And many parents of our generation just didn't have the capacity or the sensitivity for it. So children, AKA us lot at midlife now became brilliant at adaptation. We learned who we needed to be in order to stay connected to our family, AKA the tribe.

Some of us became quiet. Some of us became helpful. Some became funny. Some became high achieving. Others became invisible. And some became emotionally self-sufficient and hyper independent far too early. And of course, the big mic drop moment here is that those adaptations don't appear when childhood ends. They just become our personality.

They become our identity. Some even become our value system. They become just the way I am until one day, often much later, something in you starts to feel off. You might notice that you're always the one holding things together or that you struggle to ask for help or that you feel irritated when people need you, even though you're the one who always shows up.

Sally Garozzo (18:58.818)
You might notice that you don't really know how to rest in silence or be fully present in relationships. That even when someone is kind to you, something in you can't quite trust that they're giving unconditionally. Or the intimacy feels like just another job to do rather than something nourishing that you can let go into. And again, people often interpret this as a personal flaw. They might say things like,

I'm just bad at relationships, I'm too...

Sally Garozzo (19:35.449)
They might say things like, I'm just bad at relationships. I don't really like intimacy. I'm just too independent. I'm too sensitive. I should be more resilient by now. All of this stuff. But what if these are not personal flaws at all? What if they are the residue of a nervous system that learned very early on that it had to manage itself in order to stay safe and connected?

Because here's the thing, when a child doesn't experience consistent attunement, they don't just grow up feeling depressed or sad, they become very, very busy internally. They start monitoring, they start adjusting, they start anticipating, maybe even shutting down as well. And that internal busyness often becomes the baseline state of adulthood. So even when life is calm on the outside,

body doesn't quite register safety. It stays mobilised, it stays braced, it stays slightly on guard. And this is where anxiety often lives. Not as fear of something specific, although we know it can grow into this, like fear of driving or a specific phobia, but as a kind of low level vigilance that hums through your days and your nights, maybe even waking you up in the middle of the night to knock on your door.

It's a sense that you should be doing something, fixing something, managing something. And because this state becomes familiar, it also becomes invisible.

And people don't realize that they're tense. They just think this is how life feels. This is how life is. This is just life. And this is also why so many people find midlife destabilizing because the adaptations that worked so well for decades start to cost more energy than they used to. The nervous system and the adrenals just get tired. It's that HPA axis that

Sally Garozzo (21:42.433)
is frankly knackered at this point. And for women especially, this often coincides with the menopause transition because this is when the body becomes less willing to buffer and compensate, which we'll talk about later on. But before...

Sally Garozzo (22:06.286)
But long before that point, the pattern is already there. The pattern of holding yourself together, the pattern of being the container for everyone else, the pattern of not quite knowing how to let someone else hold you. And again, this isn't something you choose. It's something that's formed quietly, sort of behind the scenes really, unconsciously, in response just to what was available, which is why Insight Alone,

isn't enough to change it. Insight helps and it's definitely part of the process but it has to go beyond that, it has to go underneath. You can understand the patterns perfectly.

Sally Garozzo (22:57.986)
which is why insight alone isn't enough to change it.

Sally Garozzo (23:05.688)
which is why insight alone isn't enough to change it. You can understand your patterns perfectly and still feel them in the body. You can know why you're anxious and still be anxious. You can see your childhood clearly and still feel exhausted because these aren't cognitive habits. These are nervous system strategies and strategies don't dissolve just because we understand them, even though understanding is part of the process. They soften when they're met.

with something that they need. And what they need is attunement, presence, slowness, allowance, space, not just insight. And this is where many people get stuck. They do years of self-reflection, years of therapy, years of analysis, years of personal development, and yet they still feel like something hasn't landed. They've done the work, but the work

hasn't quite reached their body or their nervous system or their energy field. The deeper layers of the psyche.

Sally Garozzo (24:19.886)
or the deeper layers of the psyche that need touching. And often what's missing isn't more understanding. It's the experience of being fully with another human or even with yourself in a way that doesn't require you to adapt. No fixing, no improving, no explaining, just presence. Just, I see you. And when that's missing, the system stays on duty like a soldier.

guarding your depths. Which brings us back to the question underneath all of this. What does it actually feel like when you don't have to manage yourself? What does it feel like when nothing is being asked of you? What does it feel like to be held rather than helped?

Well, we're going to conclude that later on and in other episodes. But for now, let's just take a breath. Let's take a pause and maybe you can ponder those questions yourself.

But what I want to do now is just zoom out a little.

Because if we zoom out, what starts to become clear is that this isn't only about our individual childhoods, it's what's also happening in the wider world. Because even if your family did their absolute best, they were still living inside a culture that did not value attunement. What it does value is functioning, it values productivity and coping and getting on with things. And when

Sally Garozzo (26:04.428)
Those are the values that shape a society. Emotional presence becomes optional and actually sometimes even a bit inconvenient. We live in a culture that subtly teaches us that emotions are something to process quickly so that we can return to being useful and productive. That feelings are acceptable as long as they're tidy and lead somewhere. That rest is allowed.

if it makes us more productive later on. That stillness is fine if it's optimised, that reflection is okay only if it becomes insight. But simply being with experience without extracting something from it is often seen as indulgent, lazy or frankly pointless. And that has a profound effect on our nervous systems.

Because when you grow up in a culture like that, you don't just learn how to survive in your family. You learn how to survive in a society, the wider world. You learn to move quickly, override discomfort, keep going, make yourself palatable, stay functional, even when something inside of you is struggling. And again, this isn't taught explicitly. No one sits you down and says, don't feel. It's taught.

through the pace and rhythm of life, just through expectations, through osmosis, and also through what is rewarded. We learn that through conditioning, you know?

So we become very good at managing ourselves. We become very efficient with our emotions. We learn how to be okay. And being okay comes with...

Sally Garozzo (28:07.31)
And being okay becomes this minimum requirement for belonging, which means that a lot of people are living lives that look absolutely fine on the outside while their nervous systems are quietly running on fumes. They're tired, they're overwhelmed, they're anxious. And because this state becomes normalized, people don't realize how much effort it's costing them, how much life force it's using up.

They just assume it's adulthood that this is life. This is what being responsible looks like. But here's the thing, a nervous system that is always orientated towards output doesn't get many opportunities to downshift into safety. It doesn't get many moments where it can stop scanning, stop anticipating, stop managing. And without those moments, regulation can't deepen.

Sally Garozzo (29:15.438)
And so everything stays superficial on the surface. So people might do all the right things. They exercise, they meditate, they journal, they go to therapy, they understand themselves very well. And all of these are really good things, right? I'm not discarding these things, but still there's a sense that something hasn't quite landed. Like they're constantly tending to themselves rather than resting inside themselves. I'm going to say that again, cause I really like this line.

They're constantly tending to themselves rather than resting inside themselves.

And this is where productivity culture really shows its impact because productivity culture shames

Sally Garozzo (30:04.844)
And this is where productivity culture really shows its impact because productivity culture shapes how we relate to ourselves. It teaches us to treat our inner world like a project, like something to work on, to improve, to optimize. Even healing can become another task, another thing to get right, another way to make sure that we're being okay. And when healing itself becomes a form of out,

put, something really essential gets lost and that is attunement to the self. Because attunement can't be rushed. The first rule of holding space or maybe not the first rule but one of the rules is slow it all down.

And attunement doesn't happen on a schedule. It doesn't respond to pressure. It doesn't respond with efficiency. Attunement emerges when the system feels safe enough to soften, to let go and let someone, even you yourself in. So this inner,

Sally Garozzo (31:23.256)
So this inner, mm.

Sally Garozzo (31:28.59)
So this sense of inner safety that many of us are looking for doesn't come from doing more. It comes from being met by yourself and others. This is also why so many people feel a kind of quiet grief at midlife. And it's not always a conscious grief. It's just this inner sense of disillusionment, a feeling that they've done everything they're supposed to do.

and yet something still feels off. And often, especially for women, this coincides with menopause when the body becomes less willing to keep buffering stress and smoothing everything over.

But even without menopause in the picture, this pattern is the same, a lifetime of adaptation, a lifetime of holding it all together, a lifetime of being capable. And capability, whilst admirable, is not the same as being held. So when people reach a point where they can't keep going in the same way, they often interpret that as failure. They'll say things like,

I've lost my resilience, I need to become more resilient. I can't cope like I used to. I've lost my coping skills. I don't recognise myself anymore. But from another perspective, something very intelligent is happening. The nervous system is saying quietly but firmly, I can't keep doing this without support. And not support in the form of advice or solutions or motivation per se.

Support in the form of presence, like a gentle scaffolding that says.

Sally Garozzo (33:23.864)
support in the form of presence, like a gentle scaffolding that's been erected to support you while you get dismantled. And this is why the idea of holding space can feel so relieving when people first encounter this type of container. Not because it's new or clever, it's not, it's really ancient in fact, but because it names something our bodies have been asking for.

for decades, something that is innately part of flourishing as a human. It gives language to an absence they felt they couldn't articulate. And it offers an alternative to the constant demand to perform, improve, and manage.

Holding space is not meant to be productive and that's precisely why it's so powerful and also if we're bringing those wounded parts of ourself to a space can also feel quite irritating.

Sally Garozzo (34:43.032)
Holding space is not meant to be productive. And that's precisely why it's powerful. Because it gives the nervous system something it almost never gets in this culture. Permission to slow down without consequence. Permission to feel without fixing. Permission to exist without being useful. And for many people, that permission alone creates a shift. It doesn't even have to be that dramatic.

Sally Garozzo (35:19.724)
And it's not even that dramatic because it doesn't have to be. It's just a subtle exhale from the in-breath we've been holding in for so long. A sense that maybe finally we don't have to work so hard to be okay. And from there, something else becomes possible. This is fertile ground for something else to emerge, something different, a new way of being.

So take a breath with me.

Sally Garozzo (35:53.645)
Wouldn't it be lovely to fully understand what holding space actually is?

Sally Garozzo (36:35.288)
So, holding space. Wouldn't it be lovely to fully understand what holding space actually is and what it isn't?

Sally Garozzo (36:55.01)
Wouldn't it be lovely to fully understand what holding space actually is and what it isn't? And I know it's a word that gets banded around left, right and center, and we can often cringe at that word, but I'm gonna spend the next few episodes really unpacking what holding space actually is, because it's something very specific.

It's not a skill.

Sally Garozzo (37:34.978)
because it's very easy to turn it into another thing to get right. the irony. But it's not really about that.

Sally Garozzo (37:50.543)
Because holding space is a state that you learn to get into. It's a nervous system state, one that really does change. Well, it changes you, it changes the other person. It's not a technique, it's not a communication skill, it's not something you do to another person. And this is why so many people struggle with it, even when they genuinely care.

because you can't hold space from your mind. can only hold space from a regulated body. So I trained formally, if you can call it trained, I trained formally in holding space through the Center for Transformational Coaching. And it's a really weird thing to be trained in because there's not actually much to teach. The learning came through a few framework ideas.

and then through practice and experiencing it, it's 95 % experiential. When someone is actually held skillfully, their nervous system knows immediately. They soften, they slow, they stop forming, they exhale, and something in them is touched deeply, and I mean deeply.

So what does it ask of us?

Sally Garozzo (39:46.009)
So when we talk about what holding space actually asks of us, I want to be really clear about something. It's not about only staying with pain and holding space for what's uncomfortable. That's just the doorway. That's the gateway, the portal. What holding space really opens up is something far more life-giving. Because when you stop rushing yourself, when you stop managing your inner world, like a project,

something else becomes available. You start to feel more with yourself. You start to feel more connected, more grounded, more at home in your own skin. Holding space is a state where you're no longer braced against your own biases, your own trauma imprints, and your own limitations. When that happens, you naturally begin to access qualities that so many of us long for.

but don't really know how to reach for, like inner warmth, inner kindness, inner self-compassion, self-patience, self-love, self-trust, being able to honor ourselves and other people. And these aren't ideas, these are real felt states. And this is what I mean when I talk about holding space from the heart, which I'll be talking more about in other episodes.

When we hold space from the heart, I'm not talking about sentimentality or fluffy or glittery-ness. I mean, it can be if you want it to be. It's what happens when the nervous system softens enough for qualities of the heart to come back online. Love, kindness, gratitude, self-compassion. When you're no longer in survival mode, you don't have to try to be compassionate, kind or spacious.

You just are. And this is also where spiritual energy comes in as well. It's about being able to access the energy of what you value. It's about accessing the energy of that.

Sally Garozzo (42:02.722)
And this is also...

Sally Garozzo (42:10.872)
And this is also where spiritual energy comes in. It's about being able to access the energy of what you really value. It's about accessing the energy that you want to operate from.

And when you're regulated and open and attuned, you bring a different field to yourself and the world, a different energy field. You just feel more alive. You feel more spacious and more trusting. You're actually more magnetic, but we're not doing it for that reason.

You can feel gratitude without having to force it. You feel connection automatically. You feel love naturally. And that's the quiet gift of holding space. gives us access to those heart-like qualities which are very, very healing for our hormones, our nervous system, our brain chemistry.

And so you don't just become better at moving through pain, even though that's one aspect of it. You start to enjoy life and you start to experience life more deeply. You feel much more resourced because you're plugged into those life-giving qualities. You're way more connected to your values as real, tangible feelings and a real, tangible output.

you're much more able to meet yourself and others from a place of generosity rather than depletion. And this is why the starting point for all of this has to be holding space for yourself first. Because when you know how to be with yourself kindly and slow your system down and listen inwardly without judgment, everything else changes naturally from this point. Relationships feel less effortful,

Sally Garozzo (44:08.322)
boundaries feel easier and more logical, presence just feels nourishing and easy to access and holding space stops being something you try to do with your mind, it's just a state you naturally slip into. It becomes the way you live. So over the next episodes, we'll explore each aspect of holding space so that you can really get to grips with it.

especially if you're interested in my membership becoming. We're gonna be talking about slowness and why it's restorative. We'll be talking about presence and how to cultivate it without forcing it. We'll be talking about how to reconnect with qualities of love, compassion and trust in a way that's embodied, not just aspirational.

Sally Garozzo (45:08.172)
And if...

Sally Garozzo (45:15.414)
And if, as you've been listening to this, you've felt moments of warmth or a softening or a sense of relief rather than intensity, that's not accidental. That's your system recognising that a different way of being is possible. So I want to end with a gentle invitation to you. If this pace and this tone and this way of relating to yourself feels like something you've been craving, then I've created a space for that.

It's a new membership called Becoming and it's a place where we get to practice this way of being through the art of holding space and mindful conversation. At the moment, Becoming is open via a wait list where if you join the wait list, you'll be privy to founding member rates. Obviously there's no pressure around that. If it's for you, that's great. If you feel that quietly in your body and if this episode is enough for now, that's perfect too.

Sometimes just being reminded of what's possible is enough to begin this process. So let's wrap things up now. As we finish, just begin, just...

Sally Garozzo (46:29.218)
So let's wrap things up now. As we finish, just bring your awareness to your body and your breath.

Just notice the quality of presence inside of you.

Sally Garozzo (46:45.346)
Thank you for listening and I'll see you in the next episode. Take care, have a great week.