Nutritional Revolution Podcast

From Casual Miles to Ultras: Cindy Shepard on Fueling, Hydration & Hard Lessons Learned

• Episode 162

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 42:05

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode #162 we talk with ultraunner and advocate Cindy Shepard about:

  • Going from a casual runner to an ultramarathon athlete
  • The role community plays in maintaining momentum and training consistency
  • The evolution of her nutrition and hydration strategies, and how she continues to learn through doing
  • Post-race recovery fueling

Cindy Shepard is a Kenyan-born runner from Oregon. She has been running in some capacity since she was little through sports including basketball, soccer and track. Cindy was a casual road runner during college and after while living abroad but fell in love with trail running after moving back home to Portland in 2022. She ran her first ultramarathon in 2023 and has since completed eight ultramarathons, two road marathons, and several sub-ultra trail races. She is dedicated to increasing outdoor access and participation among people with marginalized identities.

Please note that this podcast is created strictly for educational purposes and should never be used for medical diagnosis or treatment.

Connect w/ Cindy: 

Mentioned:

MORE NR

CONNECT 

TRUSTED RESOURCES 

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Nutritional Revolution podcast. Today we have for you guys Cindy Shepherd and she is a Kenyan born runner from Oregon. She's been running in some capacity since she was little through sports, including basketball, soccer and track. Cindy was a casual road runner during college and post-graduation while living abroad, but she fell in love with trail running after moving back home to Portland in 2022. She ran her first ultra marathon in 2023 and has since completed eight ultra marathons. two road marathons and several sub-ultra trail races. She is dedicated to increasing outdoor access and participation among people with marginalized identities. This is a great episode. Cindy has some great takeaways for nutrition and fueling to reduce palate fatigue. I found it fascinating. Enjoy the episode. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Nutritional Revolution podcast. We have for you guys, Cindy Shepherd. Thank you for joining us. So excited to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to learn about all your running journey and hydration and fueling and all the fun things. ah But before we do that, we're going to jump straight into your two truths and a lie. So I'm let you break those down for me Okay, um, let's see. so I ran my first ultra before my first marathon. Okay, wow. Um, I got second in my first ultra. Okay. and I have two dogs. So listeners, you guess, cause Cindy and I were talking before the episode and I think I already know which one is the lie. So our listeners can guess. And then at the end of this episode, we'll reveal which one is is a lie. And um about and we'll learn more about the two truths. So we'll save that for the end of the episode. So why don't you take us back to the ways. What brought you to, and maybe this might reveal some of those answers for the two truths and a lie too when you tell us about your journey, what got you into running and ultra running? So I've always been like a runner in some capacity. My stepmom when I was little put me into a neighborhood track meet at like, I think it was like six years old where they give out the little ribbons and stuff. So I started doing that and I really loved it. And I remember it was like every Tuesday and Thursday after work. And it was just like a kids community track meet, whatever. And so I started that way. And then I was playing sports in college. And I remember like, you know, I loved gym class and all that stuff. And we had to run the mile when we were in grade school at one point. And I was like second overall and there was like one boy who beat me. like, it was, was just, I loved running and I really liked running fast. That was really just what I enjoyed. I ended up playing basketball and soccer and running track a bit in high school. I did end up dropping out of track because I don't know, I think there was just a lot going on in my life and I didn't really have the motivation for it. And I think even though I liked running, I wasn't a super structured runner, you know? And sometimes running around a track, I'm like, this is kind of boring. There's like no destination. But I loved basketball practice, soccer practices, game. I just loved the continuous movement. like sprinting, stopping, just, it was one of my favorite things. It's every sport I enjoyed. It was pretty much that part of it that I liked the most. And so when I went to college, I didn't go to college for any sport. I just was a casual road runner. I just did it for myself a couple of times a week. And then over the years, I did a couple of half marathons here and there, not super structured training. I would just make sure to run enough to like not, you know, die during the race. And I was living abroad and doing that for a bit. I was abroad for five years. And when I finally came back to Portland, I joined running groups. Usually the way I meet new people when I'm in a new place is that I just join a bunch of running groups or a sport group, something like that. And so when I came back, I was like, okay, well, I'll just join all these running groups because we have so many. And a lot of them are trail. And so I ended up coming to a few group runs. Like one of the first ones was Wy'east Wolfpack, which that was my coach. That was his group. And it's like an all levels, all pieces, community run. And I just like became obsessed with it. So yeah, I moved back to Portland in 2022 and then I joined in like May. I think I started running in the spring, late spring. And then it just like went from there. I met all these trail runners, started seeing people's adventures, and I was like, I really want to do that. That sounds amazing. Then a year later, 2023, like almost exactly a year later, I did my first 50K. And then after that, it just went from there. Like a month later, I did a 50-miler, which I don't recommend. was so exponentially harder, like, but, and then it just went. So. Amazing. Did you have a coach programming for you in preparation for that first 50k or were you just doing the community runs and using those as your training? Yeah, I'd say the reason I never became a super serious road runner, A, because I think I got a little bored on the road. I'm not the most structured person. I'd say lot of my motivation is not intrinsic. So I was seeing it more as a way to socialize and do something fun and healthy that I enjoy. So I was using all the community runs as my training, which I still kind of do during the week. There are four group runs during the week that I might go to. And they just help keep me consistent. When the days I'm not feeling super motivated. ah And that was what I did. So there was no structured training or anything. That was my coach's group. But at that point, he wasn't coaching me and I told him I wanted to do this and he encouraged me. He's like, I think you'll be fine. He's like, you'll definitely, you can finish that. So I was like, okay. eh Amazing. So that first 50k to now, how has your fueling evolved? Uh, it is like, I, I stopped eating fruit snacks. Like that was the only thing I could eat in the beginning was like those welch fruit snacks because I used to not be able to like eat anything and run. In fact, I used to do all my runs, prior to like start training for ultras on an empty stomach or like a banana an hour and a half before, because I couldn't digest anything. Wow. And then I would have to plan out my meals. Like, okay, if I don't want to get super tired, to eat like three hours before, but not too much. So I was basically like my first ultra as I was eating fruit snacks and stuff like that. Like I couldn't eat very much. Um, and maybe like the just things that were super easy to digest. and sometimes I would even have random things like granola bars or whatever, and I just take, take a bite of it and that's it. You know what I mean? And then in my, so one of them, I remember I had water in one of my flasks and then the other one I had beet juice. It ended up working really well, but I, man, it was gross. It just got warm and I'm like running with warm beet juice, but then like as it would go down, I would just keep adding water to it. So was like watered down beet juice, you know, until the end of the race. It's just water in both of them. But I didn't know what I was doing at all. I just heard beet juice is good for you. And it has like, vasodilation or something. I'm like, okay, cool. Sounds good. We'll just start with that. Yeah. my goodness. That is wild. that's one of the things of beet juice. I mean, we had maybe you've come across it too, is like sometimes when people get GI issues, if they done beet juice and then they start vomiting, like a lot of people start panicking because it's like, it looks like blood. Yeah. But if you drinking it like actually while you're out there on course, that's next level. But it went down well. No GI issues or anything like that. No, and I think my reasoning was has a lot of the potassium and things like that that you need, like the electrolytes. And so I was like, okay, I just need both. So I'll have one that's beet juice and one that's water. And yeah, it went really well. So I didn't have any GI issues with that. That's great. Wow. And when there's like a good amount of carbs in beet juice too. So. I might have been on to something. was, you know. you might be the next like sports nutrition product. They're like use it uh Okay, so fast forward to now and what is nutrition look like or fueling for an ultra now for you? So I actually do use like endurance products now, because I do think they offer you a bit more, they're formulated, Specifically for that. I'm much better at fueling. I realize now is probably severely under fueling for that race. And I use a variety of things. I will use gels. I will use, chews And usually in one flask, I do still have like a, you know, I'll have like a electrolyte um carb drink just to get like a steady flow of carbs like underlying, you know. So I do use endurance products now. I still don't try to keep my favorite things like a little snack here and there that's just different for the palate fatigue. um You know, if nothing else tastes good, I always have something like a backup, usually a salty backup. But yeah. So what is your salty backup? What does that look like? Like something different. I really like Cheetos, like hot Cheetos. I don't know why, but I try to bring chips or something, but for a lot of my adventure runs I've realized flaming hot Cheetos in the middle of, or like 20 miles in when you're just sick of the sugar is really, really good. It's like a nice, and they melt in your mouth. It's not like there's any effort because it's pretty much, it makes barely real food. Yeah. Okay. So that makes me think too. Do you ever get cramps during a racing? So actually, I think I'm pretty lucky I don't cramp up that much. Yeah, rarely, rarely. Yeah. I mean, the flaming hot Cheetos, like the spice, that's capsaicin. If that if there's capsaicin in it, like the primary heat source, right in like a pepper, em that is what is one of the things that can stop cramping by innervating the nerve in the back of the throat. Same thing as like the pickle juice concept, the citric acid. So I wonder if like other Cheeto hot Cheetos, you're on to something. There is like a cramp preventer too. But yeah, that's I love talking to athletes. This is so great. Yeah, I like, I learned so much stuff. So then, okay, so we talked a little bit about the feeling. What are some of the gels or chews that you like or drink mix that you feel like worked well for you? So I do like GU think their flavors go down really easily. Sometimes it depends. Like I might have to switch off. I've used Skratch before. I think their drink mix is great. I think Tailwind is a little bit on the salty side, and that's just like a palate preference. I think you just have to find the one that your body works with. But my absolute favorite one is the Summit Tea. It's the only one I found that no matter what, I don't get sick of it. Like usually, as long as there's nothing actually going on with me, the Summit Tea Drink Mix is really good. Only issue is it has caffeine in it. And so they don't always recommend, right, starting with caffeine. and right at the, like you can have your coffee and stuff at beginning of a race and a caffeinated gel, but having it the whole time kind of, I feel like kind of lessens the impact when I really need it. Um, so yeah. And the grape one is the other Tailwind, um, like Drink Mix. the rock team that I really like because I feel like it's just easy for the palette. Yeah, yeah, that's great. So going from the 2023 where you felt like you couldn't take in enough nutrition, really had to eat your last meal well enough before, how did you train yourself to tolerate more nutrition during a race? So I just had to slowly. I tried to eat really light meals before, like hour before something like oatmeal or something like that. I also just started experimenting. the chews were really good when I feel like they're really similar to fruit snacks. So I actually started with that and I started going to chews because those digest really easily and I could eat those during. And then I just sort of upgrade, I'd have, if I had a waffle, I would take a bite of it, right? So I wasn't trying to stuff myself, but just sort of figure out how to like slowly digest. but yeah, it took a while, to be able to even eat before a race, like eat a substantial meal where now I had a nutritionist for Western States. He was like, yeah, try to get like at least 500 calories if you can. I'm like, that's kind of hard, but. I can do that. Now I try to start my races full. It's uncomfortable in the beginning, but the difference down the line is huge, I think. yeah, that's great. Do you try and target a certain amount of grams of carbs per hour? Is it more based off of how you feel when you're out there? I always have a target, but it definitely ends up being based on how I feel. the standard 60 grams of carbs up to like 80 grams, I feel like I've done if I'm going really hard or something. But I definitely don't try to force myself. If I start feeling some some way like there are times when you get nauseous and you're just like, this is not working. And then I just back off. Like I don't might not take anything for a bit. So let my stomach settle and then slowly try something else or. slowly ease back into taking calories. I try not to force it down. My biggest fear is always puking during a race because I'm always afraid that once I start it won't stop. So yeah, I tend to take a more conservative approach to carbs and fueling in general. I'm feeling sick. Yeah, what does your race morning breakfast look like? So I usually like a little bit of oatmeal and actually cold oatmeal ah with oat milk and then maybe bananas, maybe not or berries or something on top. And then an egg or two. Nice. How do you adjust that when you're traveling to a race? Does it change? it does not really change because it's usually they're like, they're the most readily available things you can find in any store, like oatmeal, even if it's like instant oatmeal. You can usually find that you can find eggs at like a gas station, whatever. And so that just doesn't change. And I don't have to think about what I'm going to eat. Nice. I love that. um And then what does your hydration look like for these? Are you adjusting that based off of the race duration? How much you take in per hour? Or again, is that more kind of based off of feel as well? I do try to do like every half hour. So if I'm doing 60 grams of carbs an hour, I try to split it up into you know, I'm eating every like 30 minutes or I'm eating every 30 minutes and then I try to calculate how many carbs I'll have in my flask, which is going to add the other steady drip. So I'm always getting a steady drip of carbs. um in my flask and then depending on when I'll get to fill up again at an aid station, I can like kind of see how many carbs I'm going to eat for that duration of time. And then I try to, you know, that's how I total it up. I'll get this much during this period of time with this flask carb drink. And then I'm also eating a gel or a waffle or something. And then that's how I try to calculate it. But when you're out there, like I'm not, you know, sometimes it just goes out the window and you're like, I'm just going to eat whatever I. can, you know. So, yeah. Whatever goes down. That's great. And let's see. we talked about hydration. Do you have you done any out of curiosity, testing with different amounts of sodium too for you that you found works well or? I've not done anything with the sodium side. So this is actually something I want to do. There's a place here that does sweat tests, um, close to me. And that's my next, that's the next thing I want to do is actually figure out how much I'm sweating. I generally sweat a lot in the beginning, but then my, I don't know, usually my body will just stop sweating at some point or like it gets used to it or something happens. I feel like I do better with heat than most people or than the average person. So I've never had really an issue with sweating too much or, you know, my bigger problem, feel like I'd be more worried about maybe just not getting enough carbs, just bonking. But I usually have a pretty good idea of how much I'm taking in like in water or if something starts to feel weird, I try to just listen to my body and I'm like, if water doesn't taste good, It's probably because I need more electrolytes or something else. And then I go for that. So I don't have a scientific method when it comes to the sodium intake and stuff, even though I probably should for the longer ones, I think it would be much more helpful. 50 Ks, you can just suffer through it really, but once you start getting longer and the terrain starts getting hotter or more difficult, then I think it's probably helpful. Yeah, yeah, goodness. And let's see. So we talked a little bit about sodium, maybe some sweat testing for you in your near future. What about in the days leading up to your race? Are you making any adjustments to your meals or your diet? Are you doing any intentional carb loading? And if so, what does that look like? Yeah, so I pretty much just eat whatever I want in the three days before a race. I'm a huge fan of ice cream. And so I always try to get those glycogen stores up. And it gives me an excuse to eat the pints of ice cream for dinner. I've honestly like, I used to have a habit of eating two pints a day or like at once. just while I'm watching TV or something. And that's what I love about, you know, ultra running is like that you can totally do that. And you kind of need that before a race. Like you want to make sure that um your glycogen stores are full, that you're properly carb loading. So I just do a mixture of like complex and simple carbs three days leading up to it. And pasta, rice, I love sushi, tacos, Mexican food, whatever. And then lots of sugar, ice cream, cookies. Nice. Yeah. Diving in. That's the thing I tell my clients. I'm like, this is the time where you can actually go against like the standards of the quote unquote American diet. dive all in into the plain white carbs as much as you want. uh Is there have you had any experiences where you kind of had issues and you needed to troubleshoot it during a race? Yes. I feel like for the longer races, definitely 50 Ks of it's pretty much like my body will handle anything for that distance, or at least depending on the race, right? Like if it's within six hours of running or something, I could do gel the whole time gels and a couple of chews and a carb drink and be okay. But for longer race is like 50 miles and up. There's like an inevitable period of nausea or something. ah And so for those ones, it usually involves like trying something new in my pack that maybe was like a Whether it's switching to a salty something, you know, or even switching to real food. A lot of times I sample aid station food and I try to do that even earlier now where a piece of potato to go with a gel or just go and dipped in salt. Not like eat a ton, but just consistently throughout to try to give my stomach something real to hold on to. Yeah. and a lot of times, like I said, I had, I've had races like where my stomach just is not, working with me, nothing tastes good. So then I just back off. I lower the effort. I might go slower. I keep moving, but I go slower. And then maybe I don't take anything for like five miles just to get like a reset. And then I start taking things slowly again. Yeah. I think that's super helpful for listeners too. cause a lot of times they'll start to get that and they'll, I mean, some of them will, will withdraw, too, if they start to feel like that. But I think, yeah, if you slow down the pace, as long as you're not vomiting everything out and it's like nonstop, right. But you can kind of slow things down, core temperature down on that core temperature note. do you do any heat training like sauna or active or passive heat exposure? You're just naturally good at the heat. I think also because when was living abroad, spent like, I think at least three and a half of those four years in, it was five years at the equator. And so when I came back to Portland, I was freezing. It was horrible. Even at night, like in the summer, I'd be like, this is nice and warm. then like the nighttime would come and I'm like, I need a sweater. Like I need to have a sweater. Yeah. I think I maintained a little bit of that, even though a lot of that has gone away. But for Western States, I started heat training on purpose. And so I would do saunas after runs. I would run in the middle of the day, while it's hot, if it's, you know, and just make sure that I'm used to that. I didn't overdo it. My coach was saying it's probably better to go in a little under heat trained and just work on a really good cooling strategy than to. overheat train and actually be physically tired for the like, it's another stressor you're putting on your body. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really important for, for listeners. Yeah. The heat, the, passive or active heat exposure is yet such another layer of stress and some athletes respond fine and others it's like, Whoa, that is way too much and have to make adjustments. So, yeah. So talking about cooling, what are some cooling techniques you use to help control core temperature? Um, I basically, for Western States, it was really, it's a really hot race. I just, had an ice, bandana all the time. and every time I left an aid station, I just was sprayed down with ice water. I just was continuously wet. Every time I went through a stream, I dipped a hat in, and put it like, will dip my hat. I will actually wash my arms. like my extremities, you lose a little, I you lose a lot of heat from your extremities. um And so I would always make sure to douse my arms. And then sometimes ice in your sleeves. And if you have an empty flask, I was usually carrying three flasks on me at all times. And one of them was just for water to like pour on myself. Yeah, that's great. They're very smart. I think the cooling piece is so important. there's just such a noticeable difference too when you can get your core temperature down. like you're just so many things improve when you can manage that aspect. So from a kind of through the race to a recovery lens after you finish something like Western States. What is the appetite like when you cross that finish line? Are you able to take in food? Is it like, don't want anything for the next 24 hours. What does that look like for you? So usually after I cross the race, I'm starving. I can't eat a ton sometimes, but I definitely want to eat. I will have some food and then maybe my stomach's like, but it's really hard to eat right now. And so I just will start, I'll eat as much like whatever I can and keep nibbling throughout the day until my appetite properly comes back. And that's like, if it's like a, you know, I didn't really have too many issues. em And then after those longer races, I'm usually starving. I remember after my first 100K. It's like Gorge waterfalls. I was just hungry for days. would wake up with hunger pangs in the middle of the night, like really painful ones. And so I had to have snacks on hand at all times to just, I think my body was just so like, I don't know what that was. We were starving. We were literally starving. So I had to eat every couple hours to keep the hunger pangs away. Western States was a little different because I ended up having like first third of the race went really well. The rest of it was like, the second third was kind of like okay, and then things started going south. And then the last part of it was really, really rough where I couldn't take in any calories, like nothing at all. Even backing off of them and no water, like absolutely nothing. And I would still try to force myself to get things down. But after the race, I wasn't really recovering. So I did finally eat something after the race when I stopped moving. I was less nauseous. Mm. um so I like I just wasn't recovering and I ended up finding out because I went to the doctor I'm like, this isn't a normal recovery for me everything I ate went straight through me and I was having to use the bathroom with urgency more than I ever had in any race previously like I've never had that type of you know, and so Afterwards when I went to the doctor they found out they said I had a rotavirus Um, yeah. So we were thinking that maybe I, started kicking in during the race because towards the end, after miles 65, I could barely eat, barely drink was so out of energy. Um, needing, um, the porta potty. Like it was rough. so everything I ate afterwards was like, it just, I couldn't really, I wasn't getting any calories from it. But I was still hungry. That was the worst part is I would go through extreme periods of nausea, but then hunger because I'm not eating anything and trying to balance that. So Western States is a little bit of an anomaly where it was not the typical recovery experience. um But after races, I usually am just trying to take in probiotics. Mm-hmm. Yeah. things and lots of protein to help me recover. Yeah. Do you find you crave anything in particular like in the days following the race? I think I crave protein a lot and and and definitely healthy food. It's like you're just stuffing your body with all of this sugar and stuff that it's it's fuel, but it's also it's not exactly like great for your body. And so I find myself just craving really healthy food. It's all I want to eat that and like red meat. I think it's like an iron thing. I'm just like, I just really need like a steak or and I'm not a really huge red meat eater in normal occasions, but I really feel sometimes that like, I just really need this and craving this. And so then I will indulge. Yeah, I think that's smart. mean, yeah, there's probably so much muscle tissue breakdown and then that is a very common thing we hear and I have different theories about it, right? I mean, yes, we consume so much carbohydrates and high sugar stuff and then your brain and palate is just so over that. But I also think there's so much oxidative stress that happens during the race that we just want these like, I hear a lot of people say they just want a giant salad and it's like, yeah, yeah, that's so antioxidant. rich to help with all the oxidative stress. I can understand why our bodies are wanting these things so bad because we just, yeah, we need it. And your body's telling you the right thing. The healthy food, that's it. I'm like, I just need vegetables. I need this. I need some steak. I need just, you so even though red meat isn't always healthy all the time, it's you're trying to, like you said, put everything back in your body that you, you know, used. Yeah. Have you ever had any issues with iron levels out of curiosity? Yes, so I think I was kind of on the verge of being a little my ferritin has been low in the past and then after Western states when I was like, like, hey, this isn't normal. It's Wednesday and like I can walk just fine and I don't feel super sore but I cannot stomach anything. uh So they had me do a blood panel and the looked at that and so my ferritin and my iron, my blood iron was super low. em And so I ended up having to, like, I was supposed to take iron supplements, but I never ended up buying them. I just was eating a lot of red meat for a couple months to, like, get them back up naturally. Not against supplements. I just was, I got a little overwhelmed by doing all the research for the ones that I need. If that makes sense. I'm like, well, this type of iron, that type of iron, and then I just never ended up buying any. em So yes, I have. And then when I was... overtraining, would say that. There was a period where I dropped a lot of weight and lost my period for three months, which is not normal for me. And I was getting really tired on my runs, my normal runs were like feeling extra hard. And so that was when I was like, okay, I think my ferritin levels were a bit low. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's good you checked on those and yeah, the rotavirus stuff, that's brutal. That is brutal. Like if you can't take anything in and then you're just, yeah, your poor body's like trying to recover and that's rough. That's rough. How do they treat something like that? Do they do antibiotics or can they be antiviral? it's pretty, it's actually more common in children. like little kids get it and like, it's not usually life threatening or anything like that. So they basically were just like, eat some probiotics and avoid sugary foods I'm like, okay, that sounds fine. And I did that and like by Thursday, like finished the race early Sunday morning. And then by Thursday, I started to finally feel normal again. Um, so it did end up running its course, but I thought it was really interesting how during the race, there was a period like after like 70 miles in, 80 miles in, 90 miles in, um, I would try to take little bites of like a potato, some rice, and I really couldn't, it was really hard. But then people would offer me something sugary and I'm like, absolutely not. I was like, no, my brain was just like, no. Yeah. In the past, Coca-Cola has been a lifesaver. It just tastes so good. It's bubbly. Those things can help settle your stomach. um But I was just so opposed to it. The thought of eating sugar, and I think it was my brain trying to tell me, maybe that's not, you don't need that right now, or there's something else going on. And then to have a doctor tell me, avoid sugary foods. You have this rotavirus, so take some probiotics. Yeah. I thought that was something, okay, that kind of makes sense. Yeah, came full circle. The answered your brain's questions. ah That is Wild you poor thing. sounds awful for how you finished Western states. But and you ended up finishing, which is like amazing. It was a little rough. really glad to have a reason because I really was like, I'm never doing 100 miler again. I think that it's just not in my wheelhouse. I don't know what went wrong. Like I was cooling really well all day, you know, so I didn't understand it, but it was nice to have like a reason. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, OK, so now you're kind of post race. um What is coming up on the calendar for you now down the pipeline and the other races on the calendar? Yeah, so I just signed up for Rogue River 50 miler. It's really unfortunate. I was actually on the wait list for IMTUF And then I was able to like, I would have gotten in, which I had signed up for the wait list in the spring. And it was a race I was very excited to do. But after Western States, I was like, man, I haven't been running at all. I don't even want to the motivation just wasn't there to train hard for anything. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to pass on that. And then A later I looked at Ultrasigup like, what's between this time and this time? And I saw Rogue River. So I was like, okay, I can do that. And it's only got like 5,000 feet of gain, think, if that. Net downhill race, I'm like, perfect. Yeah, there you go. That's awesome. um And then let's see, kind of for our listeners or new runners, do you have any advice for new runners on dialing in their hydration or fueling strategies based off your experience? Hmm. I honestly, I still feel like I'm figuring it out because I just started running ultras in 2023. But I would definitely say figure out what type of sweater you are. Cause I have friends, even if you don't do a sweat test, like I've had friends who are really, really big sweaters and deal with cramping a lot. And that always ends up being a problem during a race. And so. they need even more electrolytes and the sodium tabs. So figure out like what type of sweater you are. And then you might need to carry more than you think when it comes to that, because I think everybody is different. And that I think has been a game changer for some of my friends who like when they're done running or like they're just, it's like white, so you've seen like the salt on them. Yeah. So. Figuring out if you're a really big sweater and you're cramping a lot, you may need to up the sodium intake and the electrolytes and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's awesome advice. And the sweat testing science too is evolving. I mean, so much, we still have a way, quite a ways to go, but we've learned a lot even in the last year on sweat science. So it's, it's going in a cool direction, but yeah, it is very unique essentially is the point, right? And finding out what you're losing is important to help manage that. Um, okay. So we know it's coming down the pipeline for you next. Are you going be doing anything differently nutritionally during the race compared to Western states for the Rogue 50? gonna try not to get a virus. I don't know how to avoid that, but yeah, I really, I want to dial in my nutrition more. So it was still a little bit of trial and error because I think what I will do is I was training with what I was using, but I was training with what I was using so much that I kind of up getting palate fatigue early on as well. I've. Like, okay, I've been training for this for six months and now I don't even want to eat it during my race. So, maybe I will back off of that a bit, use more variety in my actual training. uh And so I can, you know, still enjoy those things that I'm going to be using during the race for a bit longer. That was one of the things that I would do differently and moving forward. Nice. Okay. So for our listeners, jumping to our two truths and the lie, you had said that you ran your first ultra before your first marathon, that you got second in your first ultra and that you have two dogs. Do you want to tell the listeners which one was the lie? So um I have one dog, technically, but I am fostering a dog. So if you like Belgian malinois and you are familiar and looking for a dog, I've got a great one. I'm like, we have a spare. He's lovely. But I do have, right, I do have only um one dog. And so the other two were truths. Awesome. And so what was the first ultra or the first ultra you did before? Was that the 50K you were mentioning? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. So you went straight into a 50K before your first marathon and was your marathon a road marathon or trail? was, oh, my first, yeah, my first marathon was a road marathon, which I had very little desire to train for actually before I did an ultra. And I still don't like them, I've done two and I still can't figure them out. Yeah, the road is just a beast mentally and for on your body, I feel like. I think it's just kind of taxing, like it's boring. like, I can't really focus for that long. And I feel like marathons are too, like road marathons are really focused. Like you just need to like be in the zone where trails it's like, this hill's kind of hard. I can walk it. this downhill is kind of fun. I'll run faster. You know, there's variation that roads don't really provide for me. And so I always have a hard time keeping consistent pace. Yeah, and just the, I feel like it's just so peaceful, like to some degree peaceful when you're out in nature and like you said, like you get to see all these really cool things and you carried your body there on two feet, which I think is so rad. And I think this might be like, maybe it's just me. And I feel badly to say this a little bit because I'm always so thankful. It's fun to see all the signs and support out there for road marathons, but sometimes I'm like, I just don't want people shouting at me the whole time. Does that make sense? It's like over, I'm like over-stimulated. And so I think trails are amazing because you're by yourself. You can be with the runner. Sometimes you have someone to talk to. Sometimes you're alone and then when you come into an aid station and you get that support, it's like you're really needing it and then it really boosts you. So you're excited to see those people. So. moments of like peace to like process and then go through the busyness. That makes a lot of sense. I think that's yeah, that's a good one. ah Okay. So where can our listeners find you follow you reach out about the Malinois? Yeah, so um I literally, my Instagram name is @BlackCindyRuns very simple. uh Yeah, and so feel free to ask me anything or if you are interested in adopting a dog. I am working with the the Woof Project. um It's a malinois rescue. They do help some other dogs as well to foster this guy and find him the best home because, you know, Ultra runners, like they would probably be a good home for this dog, but my one bedroom of apartment with these two dogs, I'm like, okay, I may not be getting my deposit back. Oh, no. Yeah. Well, we will link that in the show notes for listeners. Hopefully we can get that. What's the dog's name? The malinois Monty. All right. Well, hopefully we can get Monty adopted. And yeah, you guys reach out to Cindy and reach out about Monty. And thank you again so much for joining us, Cindy. This has been awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

Head Shot

Kyla Channell, MS

Host