Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Welcome to Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart—the podcast dedicated to empowering men to break through barriers and achieve their full potential.
Hosted by Lachlan Stuart, this show dives deep into the challenges men face, offering actionable insights, real-life stories, and expert advice. Whether you're focused on fitness, business, personal growth, or fatherhood, you'll find inspiration and tools here to help you rise above any challenge and become the man that can.
New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Tune in, get inspired, and start living the life you’ve always wanted.
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Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Enhance Memory, Focus & Mood with Sleep | Shea Morrison #512
Prepare to challenge the misconceptions you've held about sleep with our sleep wellness expert, Shea Morrison. This episode is a wake-up call to the transformative power sleep holds over our overall health and well-being, and the stark reality of what we risk when we neglect it. Shea takes us on a journey through the mysteries of our sleep rhythm, shedding light on the significant role sleep plays in our mental, emotional, and physical health.
Did you ever think that sleep could have a profound impact on your body image? Well, it does, and we're not holding back in this discussion. From the dreaded 'dad bod' to skin health and recovery time, we delve into the adverse effects of not prioritizing sleep. Shea provides practical techniques to help you respect your body, slow down, and analyze data from wearable tech like aura rings and whoop bands.
Grab your favorite drink (but not alcohol, we'll tell you why!) and get ready to redefine your morning routine, balance your work and personal life, and confront the anxiety-inducing effects of screens and streaming devices on our sleep.
We also walk you through creating a sleep routine that works best for you and explore lifestyle choices that can optimize your brain health. This episode is not just a discussion; it's a path to better days through better sleep.
Shea Morrison:
https://www.sheamorrison.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/sleep-by-shea/id1511881659
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Do Something Today To Be Better For Tomorrow
for melatonin, which is our sleep hormone. In the morning we want melatonin to switch off. So by switching melatonin off, we go outside, we get some sunlight, you know 10 to 15 minutes, 20 minutes if you can direct sunlight. Morning sunlight is beautiful and that's going to switch melatonin off.
Speaker 2:The man that can project podcasts, a podcast empowering career-driven men to live more fulfilling lives. We are here to challenge your beliefs, redefine success and talk about the important stuff in a relatable way. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. My name's Lockies Stuart. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3:I have a very exciting episode for you, one that is going to touch on a subject that, when you've listened to this, you'll go, wow, that was staring right in front of my face, but it is the easiest thing that will change your life. That is, you know, you can just neglect, and I'm guilty of it. So in our fast-paced world where, you know, burning the candle at both ends is all the hustle, culture is a badge of honor. We're going to flip the script today and dive deep into one of the most underrated aspects of health and performance, and that is sleep. So our special guest today Shane Morrison, a renowned sleep wellness expert who is passionate about helping people transform their lives through better sleep. We're going to debunk myths that have kept us from tossing and turning at night and to shed light on a profound connection between sleep and our mental, emotional and physical well-being. One thing I read on your website as your co-founder of the Good Night Co, is your mission, which I love to help you create better days through better sleep. That is punchy. That is very, very punchy.
Speaker 3:So in today's episode, we will explore the critical link between sleep and brain health, including Alzheimer's and dementia. Why the days of bragging about surviving on three to four hours of sleep are long gone. I used to be guilty of that one. The mysteries of melatonin and our psychedium rhythm, and how sleep can be a superpower are some of the things that we're talking. So if you've found yourself counting sheep at 2 am I've done that many times or waking up feeling like you've barely slept at all, this episode is going to be your wake-up call around the transformative power of sleep. Before we dive into the conversation quickly, a quick shout out to all our amazing listeners. As I mentioned last week that 64% of you have hit follow on Spotify and Apple is winning the race. Apple is at 73%. So whatever platform you're listening on, make sure you hit follow so that you never miss an episode and you'll also keep me very happy. So let's dive into today's episode with our incredible guest Shay. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me Really looking forward to this conversation with you.
Speaker 3:I feel like I know so much about you. Obviously, I met my wife at an event and she's like you've got to have Shay on the podcast, she will be amazing. Then I went through your podcast as well and I've listened to probably six or seven episodes. You speak really well. You have some incredible guests and incredible topics. We dive deep on these smaller, I guess, micro-initials and issues of sleep, which is beautiful, but I'd love to start with something that I think is on a lot of our listeners mind. So in today's fast-paced world where we're constantly juggling work, family, personal time, sleep often takes a backseat. I'm very, very guilty of it. As I've mentioned, can you help us understand just how critical quality sleep is to our overall health and well being and what we are risking when we're constantly neglected?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, as somebody who is so passionate about sleep, this is what I live and breathe. I think that one of the quotes that Matthew Walker, who is probably the world's most renowned sleep expert, has said is that if you are getting less than five hours sleep a night constantly, then you are going to have a shorter life. There is absolutely no two ways about it. But, categorically, our body cannot survive on this lack of sleep. So I often get asked why do we need seven to nine hours? So adults need seven to nine hours sleep a night, and people are really often wanting to question that and they're like no, but I don't need that much, I get five hours and it's fine. But the reason that we need seven to nine hours is that each night, we cycle through stages of sleep. So we've got our four stages of sleep, and these include our deep sleep and our REM sleep so a really restorative stage and then our dream state, which is also amazing for cognition and memory, and we need to cycle through four to five of these each night and they last for 60 to 90 minutes. So if you do the math, this is why you need seven to nine hours. It's not up for quick for question. It's just a simple biological response of what is required.
Speaker 1:So I think, for anyone who is questioning, why then really delving into the science of sleep and getting some understanding about your own body and what is happening for you?
Speaker 1:Because I think that we are caught up in this really fast paced world where we believe that the answers sit outside of us and that everybody's got the answers for us and that we need to go and see doctors and need to go and see these different healthcare practitioners and they're going to give us the answers. But really, what it comes down to is that if we tune into our bodies and if we can sit for long enough and really understand what is happening for us, because each of us has a completely different genetic makeup. There is no, there are no two lockies, there are no two shades. We are absolutely individual and we have a completely different fingerprint. So every person has a different fingerprint and this is why we need to work out what's going on for us. So, within this seven to nine hours of sleep that's required each night, you might need seven hours, locky, but I know that my ultimate number is eight and I can survive on seven, seven to eight, eight to nine, that is my sweet spot.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know that because I've really sat down and listened to what is happening. I've read my data, I've got my order ring, I'm constantly checking and so I know that when I'm in really optimal health and wellness and that really feeling great and able to tackle life is when I get my eight to nine hours. But, as I said, everybody's going to be different.
Speaker 3:And it makes it very simple when you think about those 90 minute cycles. And then you can obviously track it for yourself. Use the Aura ring. I've used the Aura ring as well. The whoop, but it puts it. It makes it like you can break it down and work out where you sit in that thing and when you've got it sitting right in front of your face especially for men, because we love to see data, it's like our kind of numbers they will tell you exactly what's going on For yourself. Where did the I won't say obsession, but where did the extreme interest in sleep come about for you?
Speaker 1:It's interesting, my background was in radio, so my something that's probably not good for sleep. Yeah, you know I was living this extremely fast-paced life, had a basically a 20 year career in radio advertising and you know lots of late nights, lots of functions, lots of parting and but one thing that I'd always I was very, I've always been very health conscious. I think it comes from my mum a little bit alternate.
Speaker 1:And you know, it really had picked up on that from a young age, and even during school and university, I was the person that would need to count backwards to work out okay, so I've got to stay up to do this, and how many hours sleep, because I know that I've always needed sleep.
Speaker 1:I am just that person that needs sleep, and so, when it came to after my career in radio, I really wanted to look at doing something different. I really wanted something in the health and wellness space, and it was when I had to was when I was pregnant with my second child and you know I thought, oh, you know, what can we look at doing? It was with my business partner, Danielle, who's a good friend of mine, and it was around sleep, because, as new mothers, sleep is a really big problem. You know, for lots of new moms you're not really getting a lot. So sleep was up there on that list of priorities and we sort of started off. It was quite I call it a bit fluffy, so it was silk, eye masks and pillowcases at the time.
Speaker 1:And then this was back.
Speaker 1:This was 10 years ago and this was when sleep was still not being taken seriously and was not being spoken about as the third pillar of health, really died an exercise with the only two things being spoken about.
Speaker 1:And Arianna Huffington, who owns the Huffington Post in New York at the time, was probably the first global leader that took charge in this space and she had a really bad accident and had a fall through sleep deprivation. So she was definitely somebody walking around saying that three to four hours of sleep is amazing and that's all you need and wearing it as a badge of honor. And she had a fall, had an accident. They're like no, this is not right and really, you know, her doctor's advice was to do something about it. So she wrote a book called the sleep revolution, went on tour throughout America and we participated in her book tour and and that's really, I guess from that, that turning point was in reading her book, understanding what was going on, seeing that there was this big gap around knowledge and education and, you know, then just diving into the world of sleep from there.
Speaker 3:What have been some of the benefits you've experienced personally from really prioritising your sleep?
Speaker 1:Oh look.
Speaker 3:Endless list.
Speaker 1:Endless and I think you know looking and feeling good that is one of our cornerstones, that we talk about at the Good Night Co. And really for people that are looking for the answers, to look and feel good and if you look, there are millions of solutions out there and we are being marketed to left, right and centre constantly.
Speaker 3:Hills and potions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anti-aging this and that, and you know, even grade 5s, my 10-year-old daughter. They're talking about the salty-denerive bum-bum cream. You know it's like this is for cellulite.
Speaker 3:Are you?
Speaker 1:kidding, I'm not kidding. So they're doing a very good job. Mecca, I would say, is doing a great job.
Speaker 3:I'm so naive to all of that stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's out there in a very thick way and I guess, for me, looking at, what can we strip back? And really why do we? You know, because we are charging through in such a high-velocity way of wanting more and being more and doing more, and you know it's all about doing less. So how can we do less and strip it back? And I think sleep provides this answer, because not only are you extremely well rested while you're sleeping, it has these amazing benefits to help you look and feel good. And when you think about skin being the biggest organ in our body and how it is what makes us glow and, you know, makes us look and feel good, then let's start with that. So, you know, you can add the hydration levels in and stay out of the sun, but if you can sleep, then you can look up and wake up and feel amazing and look amazing.
Speaker 3:I love that one. I think it's such an important part because body, I guess confidence and body image things are. For women it's huge Amy, my wife's a big advocate in there but even for men men just don't talk about it as much. But I know a lot of men are worried about their appearance, the dad bod, weathered skin from, you know, working out in the sun. And one thing we do neglect is the sleep component, where we'll train harder, because we're like if I train harder I'm going to get more muscly and I'll look better and I'll feel better, but it's like well, your body's probably not going to recover or regenerate the way it should if you aren't prioritizing your sleep.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think that this is the part that we want to think about is that there is such a strong message around pushing through and, I think, taking the time to honor and if you have had a bad night's sleep, maybe don't get up at five and push your body even harder, because, as you and I both know, when we're reading our data, and now we're covering then it's not.
Speaker 1:It's going to be counter-intuitive by pushing ourselves the next morning. So it's really honoring where you're at and doing something that's a bit more slow-paced. So if you're awake, then sure wake up, but do something that's a little bit more kind and a little bit more gentle for your body.
Speaker 3:I look at it as what I always tell myself is I need to earn the right to train. So if my data's off, for example, I had a few beers yesterday and it's not hugely detrimental, but my heart rate variability is down, heart rate's elevated overnight and my body's not as well rested as I would have liked for the training I had today. So I modify that based off that data rather than just going. I've got to punish myself because I drank beers yesterday, which is what a lot of people do and you're like you're so close to burning out or injury that you're better off doing some yoga or Go for a gentle walk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, anything like that. Which one thing that a lot of the men that I work with they struggle with that, but I'm like, dude, trust me, you'll thank me for it at the end of the week.
Speaker 1:I'm getting out into nature and not putting on music or a podcast, maybe, and just actually tune into what is around you.
Speaker 3:That's one of the challenges I have is, I'm always like, even when I was sick, we were supposed to do this last week or the week before and I was croaking, I was laying on this couch and I was like it's the first time I haven't even been able to watch YouTube, or yeah.
Speaker 3:I always learned, so I was just sitting there like my body just needs to rest and recover. So sleep, hydration, all of those key factors. Talking about the aura ring and I guess, the whoop as well, for those who are interested in one you can educate yourself working with yourself or reading or listening to podcasts, which is extremely important but tracking your own data so you can work out what's impacting you directly. What are some of the key metrics that you would look at on the aura ring, for example?
Speaker 1:So I always like to just look at the sleep first. So you've got sleep and readiness. So there's sort of two key things that I'm looking at and I'm interested in how much time I've had in bed and how much time I've had actually asleep, and then working out how much of my deep sleep I'm getting and how much REM sleep. So they're sort of the two key things. And then when it comes to my readiness score, it's obviously looking at heart rate variability and heart rate and understanding that heart rate variability and having, you know, not being rested is not giving us the full recovery that we need and just then not pushing through. So I know that through tracking this immensely. Alcohol is the key here Alcohol and stress. So if I have had probably more than two standard drinks, I will absolutely see it in my data.
Speaker 3:It's not that many drinks when you think about it.
Speaker 1:Two standard drinks.
Speaker 3:That's like half of the glass of the wine, not even a high tide of wine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's for me and unfortunately and I know that we're speaking with lots of men, but for women it is also a lot more challenging we cannot process the alcohol as well as men can. It doesn't mean that men can drink more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was like don't you go drinking more that?
Speaker 1:But you know, none of us can really detoxify and clear the alcohol as well as what we think we can, and we're living in a society that is fueled by alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and it is causing some pretty big problems, because so, when we go into this, when we're going into our sleep stages, and if you're not familiar with the circadian rhythm and you're looking to find out some more information about sleep, I would start with circadian rhythm.
Speaker 3:So what is the circadian rhythm for this?
Speaker 1:Circadian rhythm is your internal body clock and there's some beautiful diagrams. If you Google circadian rhythm, there's some beautiful diagrams. It just paints a picture of there are certain things, processes, that are happening throughout this 24-hour cycle. So our body cycles every 24 hours. We absolutely underestimate how amazing our bodies are and we do need to take stock and thank our bodies on a daily basis. Just do a little check-in and see what your body is saying to you, because your body talks to you. So this is what happens in our cycles is our body is talking to us. So in this 24-hour cycle, our circadian rhythm, the key factors when it comes to sleep is understanding melatonin.
Speaker 1:But when we come to alcohol, I also like to paint a picture here as well. So melatonin, which is our sleep hormone in the morning, we want melatonin to switch off. So by switching melatonin off, we go outside, we get some sunlight 10 to 15 minutes, 20 minutes if you can Direct sunlight. Morning sunlight is beautiful and that's going to switch melatonin off here in our pineal gland. And why we want this to happen is so that then adrenaline and cortisol can kick in. So adrenaline and cortisol naturally kick in then, probably around 9am, and this is also why we don't really need to have coffee first thing in the morning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've been reading a lot about that recently.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So if we're relying on our natural circadian rhythm, we get this automatic boost of energy and so, shortening the caffeine window between sort of 10 and 2, that's the ideal part of when to receive coffee based on adrenaline and then, as we cycle through to the evening, we want melatonin to switch on in the evening, probably around, you know, 8pm, 9pm, and this is where we want less light.
Speaker 1:So we want lots of natural light in the morning and we want as minimal artificial light in the evening so that melatonin can release the hormone melatonin can release, and this is what's going to allow us to feel sleepy and tired. Now, as we keep going through, between sort of 1 and 3am is when our liver detoxification is doing its best work. So all of our hormones and our organs are doing different processes during this 24 hour cycle, but between sort of 1 and 3 is the liver detoxification process. So if we're drinking alcohol and a lot of people say, oh, I was up from 1 o'clock, wide awake and couldn't sleep, often it's because our liver is saying what did you do? Screaming aren't you.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, help, because it's already detoxifying during this stage, and this is detoxifying any of the chemicals that we've absorbed from that day, so they'll be environmental or things that we've consumed. It might be all the hormone detoxification, so estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, all of those hormones. Lots of processes are already happening. Then we add alcohol or nicotine or recreational drugs or medication or whatever that might be on top of that and it can't do its normal job because we're asking it to do more.
Speaker 3:And then so would that then build up for the next day, and you're in debt almost.
Speaker 1:Probably. I don't know the answer to that, but I would assume it is so. If you're somebody who is drinking every day, the body gets to a status quo level and kind of, I guess, accepts that. But if you're waking up every night, between that window you could say and you're drinking alcohol every day, you could safely say that you're not detoxifying enough to clear the toxins.
Speaker 3:It's interesting to that point. I remember around 2013, when I was drinking and using a lot of recreational drugs. I didn't realise how good I could feel until I had about three months off. Yeah, every day everyone says you live for the weekend and it's all exciting, but I thought the hangover would last a day or two and then you just feel what I thought was good. And then, when I got of alcohol and all of that after it was about the 10-week mark, I was like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:This is living.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my memory, my focus, my mood was just I'd never experienced anything like it. And so when I see people who drink regularly or don't even have opportunities like breaks for a month or two to actually experience how good they could feel and the impacts of that because I'm always thinking about the things that we do today are going to impact your future. So, whether it's your relationship, your relationship with your children as well, colleagues, mood, all of these sorts of things will play out and determine results that you have in your life. So that's why, for me and you mentioned sleep's only just recently been taken seriously as, like a third pillar, it's the most important pillar.
Speaker 1:It's the third pillar, but I think it should be the first.
Speaker 3:It's the. In my opinion it is as well. And I talk a lot about diet and exercise and all of that, but you can't eat like you got. Your cravings are differently different. So when you're tired, your mood, your ability to exercise is completely different if you haven't prioritized sleep.
Speaker 1:And I'd love to come back and talk about mood in a minute, but also to that point, it's also understanding that in your 40s right. So if you're in your 40s right now, 40s or 50s this we still have an opportunity to really shape what's going to happen in our 60s, 70s and 80s. And if we are taking it really seriously and understanding what good health looks like, I know that I will put my hand up and say that I want to live independently, with full mobility and optimally into my 80s and 90s. That's a decision that I have made and that I want to do. My husband does as well. Now he drinks, probably too much.
Speaker 1:That's what he gets there, but he probably will. But you know, that's a decision that we have made and so and it's something that I work at every day and I and I talk about every day and so, getting good sleep and understanding how we can make these changes and start reversing some of the effects that we may have done that's damaged our body and our system. As I said, our bodies are amazing and they can do the most phenomenal recovery processes known to mankind if we allow them to. So, really understanding how sleep can play a role in that, because, also, we're looking to avoid some of these really serious conditions. So, on a day to day level, we want to be avoiding being catching the common cold, flu and virus, because if we're getting those things regularly and really compromising our immune system, this is what potentially can lead to autoimmune problems. And then, if we've got autoimmune, this is leading to longer term problems like heart disease, diabetes, cancers, parkinson's disease, alzheimer's you know the list goes on of the diseases and that's what I'm trying to avoid.
Speaker 3:I'm 100 percent with you as well. So when you made that decision I want to bring it back to you mentioned there's time in bed and then there's, I guess, the time that we have away before we actually fall asleep. And another thing you were talking about was we want to shut the melatonin off in the morning, so go get sunlight. Then at night we want to shut the cortisol down. What's your sleep routine and I guess even your sleep environment look like? To help you maximum or minimize the time in bed, yeah, that you know before you fall asleep, and also to make sure that you really have great sleep quality, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to start, I'm going to go back a whole step and talk about how your best night sleep starts in the morning. So this is something to focus on and it's a whole day experience.
Speaker 3:This is wild.
Speaker 1:So this is for somebody who's really sleep obsessed, remember, but the best sleep starts in the morning, so it starts with how you wake up, because, also you mentioned before around mood and mood is one of the key things that sleep can help with and unfortunately, there are a lot of people struggling with mood because when you've got mood problems, this is what's leading into stress and anxiety, depression, some you know really serious problems around mental health.
Speaker 1:So when we're waking up in the morning, we want to wake up and feel good and by doing that maybe that means for you saying some affirmations, listening to a meditation, meditating and getting some sunlight. So if we can get that morning sunlight, I'm so big on this and fresh air and connect with the outside world.
Speaker 3:So easy to do as well.
Speaker 1:And it's free. Crazy, but you've got to carve out the time to do it.
Speaker 1:So 10 minutes, starting with 10 minutes, and that's that's really what to focus on. And so think about what your morning routine might look like. As I mentioned, you might want to pick out one of those affirmations, guided meditations, meditations, whatever that might be for you Exercise. So getting some movement happening is great as well. Getting that sunlight and thinking about how you're going to set your day up and how you're going into it prepared emotionally, physically, mentally, so that then throughout the day, as I mentioned before, then our natural body clock can kick in and start doing its work. And then we want, naturally, we want adrenaline and cortisol to rise in that early part of the morning, give us that energy that we need. And then we want to keep a fairly consistent, stable nervous system. So by remaining calm during the day and not having massive spikes in cortisol, massive spikes in insulin which is going to drive cortisol, then this is going to help us remain, you know, really help regulate and support our nervous system, which is going to help us later when it comes to sleep. So we just want to keep this really consistent level so that then, by the time we're moving into the next stage of the day, which is, you know, for anyone that's a parent, you know that there's always that second stage, which is the busyness of picking children up or doing sporting events, getting dinner ready, getting the homework done, doing all of those things. Then you're already feeling like you've got this, you know, because you're going into it in a really calm way, so that then your body's already getting prepared for this state of relaxation.
Speaker 1:So I think that what a lot of people forget about is that, in order to sleep, we cannot click our fingers and go to sleep. It does not work for anyone and it might people will disagree with me and say no, no, I can fall asleep like that, but they're probably not getting great sleep and they're not staying asleep. And so, because we need our body to be fully relaxed and I say to people, think about that time when you know you've been so relaxed it might be after a massage, it might be when you go on holidays, it might be when you listen to beautiful music that there might, there's just you can always connect into that feeling of really good relaxation. That's the state that we want to be entering into before we go to sleep, to set us up for this beautiful, consistent, regulated sleep to try and achieve that seven to nine hours.
Speaker 3:It sounds so exciting and I think it ties in well. It definitely does tie into a lot of other things that I'd focus on throughout the day eating well, not having your energy, energy drinks and all of that sort of stuff to spike insulin, and managing stress by actually planning out your day and not over committing, like we spoke about in the beginning, but doing less throughout your day. So you can, I guess, have a better ROI on the things that you are doing and be more intentional around why you're doing a lot of the things. Most people, as we said, because it's such a fast paced world, we'll grab a snack at the servo and a quick soft drink and then we'll have 10 meetings back to back and you won't allow for any decompression time.
Speaker 3:Then you race into the house you've got kids going on and you might snap, or you mood, you know, triggers you to have an argument with your wife or your husband, and it's just this self-sabotaging behaviour that, if you can slow down and even I've never really thought about prepping for sleep starting from the morning, which is a good way to think about it that is going to set you up for success in all areas of your life, because all you're doing is thinking about how is this going to impact me tonight, which then should hopefully get you thinking about how is this going to impact the conversation I'm going to have with my wife later, or my husband later, or how I respond to the children if they have crap all over the floor. Whatever it may be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess not focusing on, you know, not sweating the small stuff, like really really just letting some things go. I think also and I'm guilty of this absolutely is that I love a really meticulously neat, tidy house. That's what keeps me sane, you know having order. And I think that we also need to just be really kind and be really gentle to ourselves and create more time so that we can feel less stressed. I can't explain how much, you know, I speak to so many people who, on a daily basis, they say, oh my God, I'm so busy, I'm so stressed, there's so much going on. And we need to start to change that narrative to enjoyment, because we are here right now and every day. We need to be living every day for what it is.
Speaker 1:And I know that sounds really corny and people are going oh yeah, but you know, I think that it's not until you have a major illness or something happens in your life. That's a pretty critical piece, that you fully appreciate and understand that and that we're here for a really short time. So let's just enjoy each day and find the things you know. For me it's crazy, but sunlight and getting you know sunshine brings me so much joy and so much heaviness. I love it. So it's just creating that time for those little things as well.
Speaker 3:I feel the same, like normally. We never have these blinds down there in the new, but I just need natural light, like I'm just drawn to it, and I feel so much better. I feel going back to what you were thinking, speaking about where we're here for such a short period of time, I was prepping dad for a podcast on the weekend because we're going to do one in two weeks Beautiful.
Speaker 3:And I think about death a lot, because I've read Bronnie Weyer's book, the Five Truths of the Dying, which was just like a slap in the face and I had my grandfather on the podcast just before he died yeah, beautiful, and getting to like he was such a tough farm man, yeah, but then to hear what was actually important to him and all of those sorts of things, I'm like okay, well, a lot of what I'm focused on doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:I've neglected my health for a long time, I've neglected sleep, I've neglected relationships, I've neglected myself. Ultimately, and because I you know you adopt this, this responsibility that you need to provide for everyone and have a certain level of success, which it can be fun to take, that on, it gives you purpose. However, it can also be a burden that drives a lot of men to combust, and it's not enjoyable, because people aren't getting the husbands they deserve, they aren't getting the fathers they deserve, they aren't getting the mates that they deserve, because we're chasing something that does not even matter when we get there yeah and one thing that I'm really trying to and I guess from a bloke saying it sounds real woo-woo and stuff but I'm trying to be present and enjoy every like, even sitting here right now.
Speaker 3:It's like so cool that we get to do this, yeah, and the next meeting that I even though most of today's work related, I still love it, like I love what I do, as I can tell you do as well. But then it's also the other things that I get to do, like baby showers and christening's on the weekend. It's like normal but fuck.
Speaker 3:I have to go, yeah but it's like I'm grateful that I got invited to go to this, like people want me there, yeah, so I hope that there's a big shift and I think majority of the bloke's who listen to this show and the ladies as well, I hear because I want more. Yeah, and I do truly believe sleep is one of those overlooked parts that you're doing such a beautiful job of explaining and articulating very easily. I was gonna ask as well how do you carve out time with family, because there will be people going. You don't, and they say to me all the time you don't know what it's like you don't have kids and like I don't?
Speaker 3:I got a lot of mates who do you know. I see, and I'm like I don't know how you do it. So, yeah, how do you manage to carve out the time in the morning for sunlight or all the, I guess, sleep prep that you need?
Speaker 1:yeah. So I, as I said, I like eight hour sleep. I don't really get it because I also want to exercise in the morning. So I generally wake up at five. So for me I actually really need to start. My routine really starts from about eight and I don't watch a lot of TV. So well, I could pretty much say nearly I don't really watch any. So that's one thing. Now, for I know a lot of men in particular do love watching TV, and I'm not suggesting to not, but that's also really interfering with our sleep opportunity. So for me it's all around okay. So start sort of doing that prep stage at around eight. I like to kind of be embedded around 839. Now this is not every night, obviously, you know I've got events and things to go to, school things, children doing whatever, but if I could, that would be my ultimate. And then I'm up at five. So I like to have my little wind down routine, which for me I've got into a really simple.
Speaker 1:It's not laborious because I don't think we've got time for it but not watching screens is a key, because not only did I mention when I was talking about the melatonin, so we want so. People will often say to me oh you know, I just don't feel tired, like I am a night owl and there are night owls. So if you have a look at Dr Michael Bruce, he's the sleep doctor in the US and we've got a beautiful relationship with him you've had him on like three or four times, haven't you? Yeah, he's great and he's got a book called.
Speaker 3:Why are we sleep? No, that's Matthew Wolf.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's the chronotype. He's got a couple of books, but there's a it's like the Wolf, the Bear and the Dolphin and something else. So there is the, the lark, the night owl, so that those people do exist. But for the people that are saying to me, no, no, but I just don't feel sleepy, they're not feeling sleepy because, if we look at who is the biggest competitor to sleep, it's Netflix, netflix. Stan.
Speaker 1:Paramount, whatever all of the streaming devices, processes, systems, whatever they are, and so, because they've got it wired so well around, next episode 10 seconds yeah, and because we are consumed, so it's not only the light, it's the information, so it's, it's, it's really messing with us and people go oh no, no, it doesn't bother me, but it is creating this sort of anxious feeling for some people, depending on the content that they're watching.
Speaker 1:You know, for those that are then just on their devices scrolling, then that's also creating, for a lot of people, a lot of FOMO. They might see something that they weren't invited to and they get annoyed and then that upsets them and then that's probably, you know, problematic to fall asleep. There's a lot going on in this space, so not just avoiding that is the best way. And also the light. So for the people that say, oh no, I don't get tired till one o'clock because the light is not allowing the melatonin to release, so they're not feeling sleepy, but they feel so wide and tired the next morning that groggyness, not able to concentrate, it's almost like a hangover feeling. Yeah, so you know, it's really just working out what routine works for you. Again, it comes back to what works for you, which is going to be different.
Speaker 1:We're all going to be different and, if you can, I think the best way to start is, if you don't have a routine is find two or three things, and that might include having a hot or warm shower or bath. If you're a bloke, you probably not maybe not doing a skincare routine, but I've spoken to lots of men lately, who love, who are interested in starting one.
Speaker 3:I keep getting scent skincare and they're always like doing some skincare and they're name is like you haven't used it yet. I'm like I don't know how to.
Speaker 1:And I know it's not for everyone, but you know it can be simple things like that. We have got these little essential oil roll-ons. You know that you can just put on your pulse points because all of our senses are so wired to to this relaxation state. So just finding some things that can move you into relaxation, reading a real book you know, before we had all the Netflix and the things that were going on, books were a really good option, and they still are. And so like an old-school book lamp that you can just attach to the book yeah, how so many people probably don't know what that is well, they're 25-95 probably or online.
Speaker 1:Amazon and these days they're rechargeable and you just clip them on and the reason why I like these is because you clip them onto your book and they are on the page. What's your thoughts about Kindle? So Kindle is okay because you can really reduce the backlit, the lighting options on a Kindle, but a real book is definitely going to be better and then just making sure that that light is focused on the book and that's really going to help with your melatonin secretion.
Speaker 3:I always find, when I read before bed, within 10 minutes I might, oh yeah, down well, and this is it. It's forget the alcohol just read a book, you put yourself to sleep and get a boring book at that, you'll be fine yeah, so that works for me every time.
Speaker 1:So just finding a couple of things that you can create a routine you know with and it might be for anyone that's interested in meditating, you know, and even if you don't know how to meditate, there's beautiful. So many free guided meditations available Headspace, insight, timer, fragrant, heartcom, like. There's so many. Just Google it, youtube's full of them. Yeah, and so just listening to a guided meditation for 10-15 minutes as well.
Speaker 3:The cool thing about meditation, which a lot of people overlook, is like the subconscious programming that comes as a result of that, like, absolutely generally, it's going to talk to you in a better manner than most people talk to themselves. So I do it every morning. I'll put on a YouTube and listen to Jim Rowan or someone that just the same stuff as well, just always telling myself how I want to think throughout the day. That's like part of my morning routine. And then bedtime, calm sleep stories yeah, awesome. Like Matthew McConnaghey telling you a story is amazing, yeah, but it's just like getting you to think in a way that's going to be beneficial to who you want to become or the way that you want to show up yeah the other thing that, like Netflix, I'm guilty of watching it.
Speaker 3:One thing that is the first to change in any of my clients routines is cutting that out, because for some people it's a distraction. They're trying to de-stress and unwind, am I okay? Well, that's the symptom of how your day is set up. Let's start looking at what we can minimize there, or the fact you may not be eating well, exercising, or even one thing I mean I do is like we'll just look at each other and talk yeah, and because so many people don't connect with their partner, they don't know how to connect with their partner. So one thing, same thing with people who are struggling with relationships is like start that ten minute conversation. The first two months might be just superficial, weird chat.
Speaker 3:Eventually you're gonna break down the barriers and you're gonna start and it sounds weird to say that for a relationship, but most relationships don't communicate well or connect or connect, so doing something as simple as that, eventually you're gonna just have the conversation that you've had this burning desire to have but haven't really been able to do that. And then, once again, for me, I sleep like an angel after I've had those, those conversations that I've been really wanting to have but haven't had the space to do that and it's interesting because I was speaking with a a counselor the other day, relationship counselor the other day on my podcast.
Speaker 1:I listened to that one yeah, and she was saying so. Her advice, she would absolutely be encouraging the conversation, but not in the bed. Yeah, and because, again, our bodies are amazing, I've said it now three times is that our body and our brain. You know this. The association piece is very big yeah and so we don't want to start a conversation that's not a great conversation yeah, in the bed because that can really interfere with the increase of stress or anxiety that might come with that and PTSD from the bedroom or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and so, when it comes to that bedroom space, this is probably a good way. Good one spot to talk about this. Is it making sure your bedroom is set up so we spend a third of our lives? Well, hopefully, we're spending a third of our lives in bed set it up.
Speaker 1:So set it up yeah, and that is a completely decluttered environment. So we want to think about our bedroom for sleep and sex only and thinking about that beautiful space for that really intimate feeling, and with that means you know, not having the kids dirty laundry basket, the scooter and work and last night's dinner and whatever it might be and don't laugh.
Speaker 1:There are people that do everything in their bedroom, yeah and so it's really thinking about that space in a decluttered environment so that we can go in and it feels beautiful. It is your sanctuary, it is that, that place where then, when you walk into it, you think this is where I want to be, this where I want to relax, this is where I'm gonna go to sleep.
Speaker 3:So you really need to build that connection so what about relaxing then in the bedroom, for example? Some people, I don't. I'll never have a TV in my bedroom but, some people have TVs there and like if you were just wanting to go read a book in the bedroom, would you sit?
Speaker 1:read a book in the bedroom, and I often think you know for anyone, if they've got the space, just have a chair in the bedroom, because that's a spot that you could go and sit and read a book. Just peace, yeah, but probably not. Yeah, if you want to read in bed, read in bed. I don't think that's going to be a massive problem because it's you're relaxing. You're feeling relaxed, but TVs are an absolute no-go and if you do have one, then you should be covering it at nighttime when you go to sleep, just because of the emissions that are coming out of that. So, really thinking about that, you know, beautiful, relaxed spot. If you're somebody as well that is waking up and finding it hard to go back to sleep, this is the place where you want to be able. You don't want to be lying in bed, so you want to get out of your bed and go somewhere and sit in this chair, breaking that bad routine yeah, because, again, the body is associating the fact that you can't sleep between one and three in your bed.
Speaker 1:It creates this. You know, we create routines really quickly and so it's like oh no, this is the place that we wake up at one and we don't go back to sleep until four, and it creates this routine. So we want to break that. Yeah, so you want to get out of your bed, come down, cuz you know, go to a quiet, dark spot maybe, if you need to, just, you know, put on a guide meditation or some music read and probably wait 20 to 30 minutes so we can come back in, fall into one of those sleep cycles, again, yep and then take ourselves back to sleep, back to our bedroom, to hopefully go back to sleep that's brilliant.
Speaker 3:So we've sort of touched on a few short term challenges with lack of sleep. So looking at mood, focus, memory, all of those sorts of things, diving into some longer term impacts obviously Alzheimer's or dementia there's a lot of research coming out around the impacts of the hustle culture, the lack of sleep impacting us when we're older in life. Can we talk a little bit more about that?
Speaker 1:five hundred thousand Australians. I think is the number right now that have dementia.
Speaker 1:Five hundred thousand it's a lot of people and we're not really fully equipped to support that either. So, and a lot of the a lot of people that are struggling with Alzheimer's, dementia, parkinson's disease. So brain related problems can be genetic, but a predominantly lifestyle driven. So these are these choices that we're making so when we drink alcohol. I know I'm talking a lot about alcohol and I am somebody who enjoys a glass of wine, so you know I'm not saying don't do it, but it's making the right choices around the fact that we are shrinking our brain when we do drink alcohol and that this is part of some of these issues that are leading into some of these problems as well scary to think that we're shrinking our brains when, if you think about and I want to bring it back we're not here for a long time.
Speaker 3:how do I optimize every opportunity that I've got here relationships, career, all of that sort of stuff? It's not shrinking my brain. It's not going to help that. So for me personally once again, I do enjoy beer every now and then. However, 95% of the time, I'm focused on things that are going to allow me to be able to be fully independent when I'm 90 years old, as opposed much like yourself.
Speaker 3:I've made that decision move, sleep, son, all that sort of stuff, because I don't want to be the guy who's dependent on people in their 50s, because there's a lot of people who they can't walk properly, not because of any injury, just purely they've neglected their body, and If you're listening to this, it's now. You're aware that you can do something differently, but the responsibility then falls on you to do something about it. So, the things that you've mentioned around seven to nine hours sleep, but actually getting your own data and starting to understand does eating late impact my sleep? For me, I won't eat sugar like desserts. I do occasionally, but very regularly, very rarely, sorry, because I know how much it ruins my sleep.
Speaker 3:Alcohol ruins my sleep, stress ruins my sleep and I know that I don't want to wake up groggy the next day because the next day I want to be the best husband, I want to crush it at work, I want to be able to have a really good training session and for me I've attached enough pain to not wanting to perform well in those areas that I'm like okay, I'm happy to not have a beer. I can still go catch up with mates. I'm happy to not watch the Netflix after nine or eight. You know I don't even do that. I do all of these things that most people are just like oh, it's fine. But for me I'm like I have to perform well because when I'm 90, I don't want to look back and go I didn't achieve X, y and Z or be the best partner because I chose easy, easy things daily.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of those things in habits. It's just forming new habits or breaking old habits, and a lot of the things that we're talking around are things that are really addictive. So addiction is what is driving a lot of these problems in our society. We've got so many choices, amazing choices, which you know, so thankful for, and, at the same time, this is where we need to really think about and ultimately, again coming back to making your own choices and what is best for you. You are the only person that is sailing your ship and that can make these choices.
Speaker 3:How do you feel you would help people get a better understanding of what they feel is right for them?
Speaker 1:I think that it's that, for people that are probably living in pain, that have somebody around them, that are seeing destruction, you need to see what it looks like in order to be able to make the step, to make the changes I think you know, to see what can a better option look like. And I think, as you mentioned before, is that by going for a period of time, you know, having a good detoxification, or you know, having a break from technology, from alcohol, from caffeine, from sugar, whatever it might be, and then really understanding how you've, when you feel good, then that's when you can probably start making some of those good choices.
Speaker 3:And actually get to see it. Because, as we've spoken about a lot of stuff here today and everyone's like, yeah, it sounds good, but when you see the result, yeah, you got to feel it. You got to. You're just like I get it. Like I was saying earlier, when I had that initial three months off alcohol in 2014, that was the first time I was like I didn't realize how crap I felt. And.
Speaker 3:I was so dependent on energy drinks and all of these things to help get me through the day. And it's not normal If you're dying by two o'clock and you're dead tired and you know it's just a struggle to get through the day. You need to start asking why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right. So we do have a natural dip in energy. Coming back to the circadian rhythm, we have a natural dip in energy between sort of one and three PM, and that's when a lot of people want to reach for the sugary sugary or the energy drinks or the coffee or whatever the need is soft drinks, and it's if you, if that's the requirement.
Speaker 1:so, yes, we have a natural dip in energy, but if you're really struggling at that point then you know you are not getting restorative deep sleep and enough sleep, because you should be able to pick yourself up. So some of the options that I like to talk to people about in the afternoon during this dip in energy getting outside, getting a little bit more sunlight, getting some fresh air, even if it's for two to three minutes. So we look at people who smoke and they they just walk out every I don't know hour two hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, have a 10 minute break, have a ciggy what?
Speaker 3:a time to be alive.
Speaker 1:So everybody can do it. Yep, you know, if you, if you, you know people say oh no, I work, I can't, I can't leave my desk. You can leave your desk for two minutes and walk outside and get some fresh air, and that's going to give you a natural boost in energy as well as maybe putting on just one song and listening to a great song, having a nap.
Speaker 1:So we haven't talked about napping, but I love Andrew Huberman and his work and he's a neuroscientist in America that's got a great podcast at the Huberman lab and he has coined this yoga nidra. It's called non-sleep deep rest, nsdr, and essentially it's a nap, so it's encouraging people to just sit for 20 minutes, close your eyes, close down all your thoughts and just sit, and so if you're somebody who is really struggling with energy in the afternoon, who may just, for whatever reason, can't break this horrible sleep battle and cycle, then that little rest period is going to be what's going to help rejuvenate you during that, during that day.
Speaker 3:I find naps very hard to do. I feel like it's one of those slow down to speed up exercises, but in the day I've only got four more hours of work. However, recently I've started doing more since I was crook, and it's more of like if I can do this 20 minutes, my once again productivity is going to increase. My mood's going to feel better because I am an absolute punished to be around when I'm tired Most people are.
Speaker 3:I'm not fun to be around. So I know if I can do that, I can recharge and I'll go. I always train around one or two because that's when I hit that lull and if I go for a quick run, which I will today, I always feel energized after it and then I've got a good couple of hours left for the rest of the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's only 20 minutes, you know, and it's accessible for a lot of people who can do it in their car or at their desk, you know, in a go to a meeting room, so everybody can access that. And I'm a massive nap believer. I feel that, particularly if you've had a bad night's sleep, or for me, if I've had a really big week, then I need a nap on the weekends, because we can't bank sleep. It doesn't work like that, but the nap will give you that little extra boost of energy that you need.
Speaker 3:I like that I might have a Tuesday nap tomorrow, just to get the advantage. But it also is it's a superpower.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:People are always going. How do I get the advantage on this person? Or a deadline, I've got to get done. And, once again, I do find it personally hard to have naps, or I'm getting much better at sleep, but when I wake up feeling fresh, my output is so much better, my memory calls so much better, as I mentioned earlier, I'm moved, all of that sort of stuff so much better, and what would normally take me three hours I can get done in, let's say, 90 minutes. I'm like, oh, that was awesome, yeah, worth while it's just. How do you change your relationship with Reframing it? Yeah, reframing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's why I think that Andrew Huberman if you have a listen to his work, because he's really giving people permission to do that- yeah, but once again, the responsibility falls back on the individual listening.
Speaker 3:You're the one who has to carve out time in your day, which, once again, easier said than done. However, if you're wanting to be a higher performer, if you're wanting to be better in all those areas of your life, that's where the discipline or rebuilding a habit or time management comes in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think if we One of the things I was just thinking about that when we were touching on bedtime and bedtime routine so also remembering that a lot of our deep sleep, so when, if you're tracking your sleep, you'll start to understand this in your graph, but understanding that a lot of your deep sleep happens at the beginning part of the sleep stages.
Speaker 1:So for a lot of people, it is important that we get sleep before midnight as well, because if we're missing that, that's where the critical deep sleep, which is our real restoration process, which is when all of our organs are going through this restorative stage.
Speaker 1:So I like to explain to people we have our lymphatic system, which is our detoxification pathway through our body that sits under our skin and then in our brain. We have our lymphatic system and it's like the brain goes through a car wash every night. So think about those car washes and it's washing away all of the toxins that are building up on your cells at night. So we've got millions of cells in our body and each cell has a body clock, so that internal body clock, circadian rhythm, is attached to all of our cells and what we're trying to do is we want to make sure that we're washing away all of those toxins to do the elimination process so that when we do wake up we can recall memories and we've got great cognition and it helps with our mood and we feel good. So that's also the reasoning why we want to make sure that we're getting that seven to nine hours, focusing on a bit of time before midnight and really make sure we get the deep sleep.
Speaker 3:So when we look at the midnight aspect, does that change at all? For example, the night hour. Who might go to bed at two every night and wake up at?
Speaker 1:10?. They're on a different circadian rhythm, so that, as long as that's what they are generally, doing you know, because what we want to do is a lot of people as well it's understanding the importance of this wake time and sleep. So wake up time and our sleep time, so if there were two key factors, it's also deciding what time you want to wake up, deciding what time you want to go to bed, and sticking with that seven days a week pretty consistently.
Speaker 3:So your body can just build that up.
Speaker 1:Form that rhythm because what happens for a lot of people, who you know we've all heard of Mondayitis or it's you know it's social jet lag. So what's actually happening is that for a lot of people they've got a Monday to Friday routine and then they've got a weekend where they sleep in. Now, when I'm talking about sleeping in, if you generally wake up at around 6am, the people that are sort of sleeping until 9am or 10am on the weekends, this is what's changing our circadian rhythm. So when we move into a time zone, we've got jet lag. Yes, so we're actually socially doing that by having a different weekday and weekend routine.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so you're then recommending, and I do do this. I get up the same time every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is why as well. So if you're somebody who wants to go out, you know you've had a party, you've been out on a Friday night or a Saturday night and you want to sleep in, then you know, sleep in for an extra hour maybe, but then then wake up, get going and have a nap in the afternoon.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:So this is what's going to allow you to not miss out on all of that, because you can't bank sleep, as I mentioned before. But if you're missing out on some chunks because you've got to go and live your life and have fun and do those things, then sort of, you know, give yourself an extra hour maybe that's not going to massively shift your circadian rhythm and then have a nap in the afternoon.
Speaker 3:I love that. It's a great little tip. So where can people find you? Because I'm sitting here. I've learnt so much Great. For the last little bit. There's so much more I want to research and go through. I'm guaranteeing there's going to be a lot of people with more questions. Where can people find more of your work if people are wanting sleep coaching?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I think it's a. You've got to have coaching for so many things that you don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely, it's so important. So we are thegoodnightcocomau and Instagram is the Good Night Co and my Instagram, shaymorisoncom. You can also. I post daily and share lots of information tips, so feel free to connect with me there.
Speaker 3:And do you do talks? Because we've had recently a number of businesses reaching out wanting not me, wanting other people. They're like does that person do? Would they come speak to my business? I'm like I have no idea.
Speaker 1:I run corporate sleep workshops. Yeah, perfect, there you go guys.
Speaker 3:I think it's a very good investment If you want to get more productive staff, or even for yourself. It's going to be good for your revenue. Think about it like that. But I spoke about an example a few weeks ago. If you're working the standard 38 hour work week and your productivity is down on 10%, let's say, just because of poor sleep, stress et cetera, that's four hours a month a week. Sorry that you're losing which, if you're paying someone $50 an hour, whatever, that's $200 a week or 204 hours a year that you're losing. So worthwhile checking out the sleep stuff, that's for sure. And for anyone who has any questions and you're watching on Spotify or YouTube, please put it in the comments or contact Shade directly and we'll be able to get those answered. But thank you so much for coming on and it's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thanks, locky, it was great to share with you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
