Holding your Revenue Drivers Accountable - Part One (#253)

Join Dave Casey on "The Maximize Business Value Podcast" for the first installment of an essential two-part introduction featuring Chris Goade. This week, they lay the groundwork for effective leadership strategies focused on creating a culture of accountability and consistently hitting revenue targets. The conversation continues next week!

Tune in weekly to hear more from Mastery Partners and to receive relevant key content on your journey to maximizing your business value!         

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Learn More about Dave Casey: 

Dave Casey is a seasoned business owner with deep expertise in all aspects of organizational behavior and a passion for helping entrepreneurs reap the full rewards of building their companies. He understands that a truly valuable business isn’t just profitable—it’s secure, scalable, and transferable. In addition to his work with Mastery Partners, Dave actively gives back to the entrepreneurial community through leadership roles with organizations like Business Navigators, Biz Owners Ed, and Liberty Ministry. Whether advising on strategic growth or mentoring the next generation of business leaders, Dave brings clarity, integrity, and decades of real-world experience to every interaction. His mission goes beyond exit planning—he’s committed to helping owners build lasting legacies.

Learn More about Chris Goade: 

Chris Goade is a co-founding partner of 360 Consulting, where the mission is to drive businesses to achieve exponential growth. 360 Consulting was developed on the founding principles of helping clients develop scalable sales systems and winning performance-based teams that achieve revenue growth and profit goals. The results of Chris’s work and the 360 Consulting methodologies and process are successful at identifying gaps using an outside, diverse perspective and focusing on how businesses can produce repeatable and sustainable sales results. Chris works with leaders to get out of the weeds so they can work on their businesses at a higher level.

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Transcript

MAXIMIZE BUSINESS VALUE PODCAST - EPISODE 253 Transcript

Tom Bronson (1s):

Welcome to the Maximize Business Value Podcast, brought to you by Mastery Partners, where our mission is to equip business owners like you to maximize your business value and achieve the exit of your dreams, whatever that means to you. With insights gained from over a hundred business transactions, we share real-world strategies, lessons, and expert advice to help you build long-term sustainable value in your business. Each episode is hosted by one of our Mastery-certified partners, their seasoned experts who've helped countless business owners navigate the complexities of growth, scaling, and building value.

Tom Bronson (45s):

They bring firsthand experience, actionable insights, and a passion for helping you build a business that thrives. So, let's dive in.

Dave Casey (58s):

So, hi, this is Dave Casey, and welcome to the Mastery Partners Maximize Business Value Podcast. So this is a podcast for business owners who are serious about building long-term sustainable value in their business. Today, I'm excited to have with me Chris Goad, a principal at 360 Consulting. So Chris, welcome to the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I should

Chris Goade (1m 22s):

Say. Yeah. Hey, it's been, it's been a little while, so thanks for having me on. I really was excited to do this.

Dave Casey (1m 28s):

Believe it or not, we're up to this, which is like number 2 47 in this podcast series, so it's been going for a while, but

Chris Goade (1m 35s):

There you go. That's good.

Dave Casey (1m 36s):

Yeah. So, so could you give us a little bit of background about you and, and, and the company and kinda where you, where you got where you are?

Chris Goade (1m 44s):

Yeah. Well, you know, I spent lots of years in the corporate world, like many of us, and 10 years ago, or almost 10 years ago, you know, kinda launched the whole 360 consulting business along with my business partner in 360 consulting, Dean Ash, who, you know. Yeah. And we, we both met each other through licensing with a company called Sales Acceleration, and we're still licensed with them today. And they kind of built the original model that we started our consulting practice on. And what do we do? We really help, you know, companies specifically SMBs, you know, even some mid-market companies, build out sales infrastructure so that they've got sustainable sales engines to drive growth in their business.

Chris Goade (2m 33s):

And as you know, Dave, a growing business is way more valuable than a stagnant, stagnant business oray client business. So I think that's why we've always had an opportunity to work together with you guys and some, you know, mutual clients. And it's been a, it's been a real godsend, you know, we've worked with probably over 140 companies in those 10 years. Those are not all solely me or eight of us in the firm now, and every industry you can imagine. So, you know, we kind of, we kinda like to say we're agnostic, you know, from an industry perspective, but, but that's because we bring a lot of experience in having worked with companies and lots of different industries, kind of running the GA gamut.

Chris Goade (3m 20s):

So yeah, it's been a, it's been a lot of fun. You know, we kind of have two golden rules with 360 consulting. We only work with people we know we can help. Yeah. And we only work with people we like, you know, so those are two important things. And obviously that second one is just a double down on the first, you know, when you Yeah, sure. When you're working together, you're, you're, you're collaborating, you're really building something for the business. Those relationships are deep and rich and go on for a long time. Yeah.

Dave Casey (3m 49s):

That, that parallels so much what we're, what we do engaged in. Yeah. Yeah. That mastery. Same, same way in that, you know, my background was in the IT world. So when I joined Mastery, I was sure that all my client base would come from IT services companies and people that I knew, and the company, you know, an industry that I knew well, and it's been all over the gym. I mean, I've been, you know, my first client was in the steel fabrication business, and then the equine genetics business, and then you name it. I mean, it, it's, and that's kind of one of the things that makes it, makes it wonderful is, is to, is to learn about all these different industries and how, how they tick and how things work and, and have the pieces fall together.

Dave Casey (4m 31s):

So that's a lot of, a lot of fun. So yeah, we, we've definitely enjoyed the, the partnership with 360 and, and obviously that, you know, many mutual clients. And I think when, when we uncover when dealing with clients, we do a lot of referrals back and forth, and I know that's part of what, what you'll talk about a little bit, but, so mainly, I mean, revenue, I, I know that, that the accountants think differently and, and so do the HR people, but to me, revenue makes the world go round, right? It starts with a sale. And, and, and so what is your approach to keeping a company's revenue drivers, those people that are, that are out there actually booking the business accountable?

Dave Casey (5m 13s):

How do you keep those folks accountable?

Chris Goade (5m 15s):

Well, I mean, I think it's a, it's a really great question. And you know, the difference, we, we always say the difference between success and failure in selling is the actual work, the actual doing it. So, you know, it's really important, Dave, when we, when we engage with a company that, that they clearly, and that we help them clearly understand what their go-to market strategy is, and what does that mean? It really means, who are they, who are their ideal customers? Yep. And the ones that they really did deliver value for. And what, what is that value proposition succinctly, right?

Chris Goade (5m 55s):

Like, you clearly understand that. So that once you, once you kind of define that now, you know, okay, how are we gonna engage with those companies? Here's the clear value we deliver for them. Now you can start to build tactics around that and how, how do you help your salespeople and your sales organization really hone in on those customers that you deliver value to? And, and that they clearly are able to uncover the opportunities to help those clients and those customers, and that they walk away from those that they, that they don't. But

Dave Casey (6m 31s):

That last part is so key. We only

Chris Goade (6m 32s):

Have, yeah. We only have so much time, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's one of the, you gotta start at the top. You gotta have that really good strategy and clearly defined kind of go-to-market before you're able to really put together the right tactical plan. But then it's critically important that you begin to put together the tactical plan. And that's more than just a revenue goal. So, you know, we like to build systems that have indicators to the furthest point upstream possible, and that's different for every business that we work with. And quite frankly, sometimes it's d different for companies in the same industry.

Chris Goade (7m 13s):

Yeah,

Dave Casey (7m 13s):

Yeah.

Chris Goade (7m 14s):

But at the end of the day, it's really about getting that clarity of task for your sales team so that your accountability is meaningful and impactful, and how you help those people win incrementally is really critically important. You know, we can't always, I mean, we've had companies that have extremely long sales cycles, and we have worked with companies that have a combination of long and short and mid, you know, mid-term, and we worked with very transactional companies. Either way, your sales team and your sales people, and everyone that touches the customer, have to have an opportunity to win incrementally. Yeah. Because the likelihood that you're gonna snap your fingers and sell something most of the time doesn't happen.

Dave Casey (7m 60s):

Yeah. I'm, I've seen that so many. Of course, I started out selling mainframe computers, right? So if you sold a mainframe every two to three years, it was a big deal, right? But certainly you weren't idle for those two and three years. There are lots of incremental sales that go along with it. In our case, we sold peripherals and we sold software and other pieces and parts that, that, that went around that. But we, we could expect a, a big hit every two to three years in the mainframe world. And it's rare. You know, I've, I've, other than that, I've not seen too many other engagements with clients where it's that long. I mean, you know, a six-month sales cycle sounds like a long time these days.

Chris Goade (8m 42s):

Yeah, it does. And I think too, you know, you're, when you're, when you start to think about those, you know, whether it's short sales cycle, long sales cycle, whatever, whatever's most important for your business, business in the, in the industry and the business that you're in, you need to have, you know, we hear, we hear the KPI thing a lot, right? KPIs and, and they are critically important, but it's the, but it's more important to find the exact right ones. Measuring activity for the sake of activity is not a, not a road to success. So, but you also need that, you know, that ability to, you know, not just for the business owner and for the, you know, for the stakeholders in the business, but you need to be able to say, I've got a, you know, here are my goals, here are my pipeline, here are my leading indicators of whether it's meetings or demos or whatever those, you know, identifying customers or bids.

Chris Goade (9m 39s):

If you're in construction, you know, you've got to find those not truly meaningful KPIs. And that kind of goes back to allowing your people to win incrementally. Yeah. And know they're doing the right things, results. Hey, you know, what, if we, if we had the magic elixir to just snap our fingers and produce results and, you know, everything was just linear and just went, you know, just grew perfectly like a spreadsheet, we, you know, we'd be done, right? Yeah. We'd already sold that magic elixir. Yeah. So it's really, it's really important to have those, those meaningful KPIs, and then you can, that accountability coaching, teaching, training is so much more impactful for your team, no matter what that team looks like, whoever's driving sales within your business.

Dave Casey (10m 30s):

Cool. Yeah. And that, that's really part of it. It's interesting when we, I think back, you know, my evolution, like I said, starting with mainframes, it was, it was pretty clearly defined what we did. And we spent months training, actually, to even understand what the product was about. And then, then to get into how, how do you actually sell something? It's five to $7 million a lick. You know, it's a little different discussion, but part of it that we found is that process, and you've alluded to it several times, and, and, you know, in your opening statement, I mean, you used the word that I really like, which is sustainable. I mean, you, once you build the process and continue to refine that process, that gives you that sustainability that, that you can lose someone or promote someone and not worry about a lack of production because you've got, you know, the engine is built and, and, and, and you kind of move people through the process that you know, you're okay.

Dave Casey (11m 31s):

You, you've been an assistant in this area, now you can become the lead, and you already know the process, you know, and you've lived it. So, that's where I see, particularly in the range, we are the small to medium business size. You know, the business owners, they either got there by having one way to do things, and it worked, and boy, they built a business around it, but then they haven't looked at how do I, how do I transfer that to other people? And, and that, that will bring up something a little later that I'm gonna ask you about. But, but certainly that process is so important to me.

Chris Goade (12m 7s):

Yeah. And I also think that if you, if you're, you know, really interesting, you know, talking about when you started and selling mainframes in the training that you went through, every business needs to have a way to train people. Yeah. If sometimes that can happen very quickly in a matter of weeks, and sometimes that has to happen over a longer period of time, whatever that is, it is critically important. You know, that you, that you have a process to be able to train people. Again, that accountability, that coaching, those things have got to be meaningful, impactful, measurable. And if not, you're really, you're, it's guesswork, right?

Chris Goade (12m 50s):

And yeah. And I, the one thing I don't like about business is guessing, you know, sometimes we have to, right? Sometimes we have to use our instincts and our gut. But at the end of the day, you know, we wanna find ways that we're not guessing that we, that we know the things we're doing or building value and incrementally moving us along the path to success.

Dave Casey (13m 11s):

Yeah. I don't know if you coined this phrase, but I always give you credit for it. So, you know, when you were working with us and helping us to find all these processes, and we're talking about training, you know, and I, and I've heard this pushback from more than one business owner. Well, the problem is that I've trained people in the past. I train them up and then they leave, you know? And I think you're the one that said, well, what if, what if you don't train 'em up and they don't leave?

Chris Goade (13m 37s):

Yeah.

Dave Casey (13m 37s):

And you've got another problem. So

Chris Goade (13m 39s):

I sure as heck didn't make that one up. I don't think I've invented anything, but I've heard that said for years, and it always makes me chuckle every time I hear it, because, you know, what could be worse, right?

Dave Casey (13m 52s):

Yeah. Exactly. What could be worse? Well, there's a couple of questions that I have around leadership, and, and this is, this is one I've actually had a client ask me, not not too long ago, within his last six months, and it's, so they were looking for a new sales leader for their organization, and they asked this question, they said, we found a guy that we think is great, and, but he's never really carried a bag. He's been a, he's been a management guy. He's a great manager, and he is great with people, and he has all those skills, but he's not been a frontline sales guy. You know, can he effectively lead?

Dave Casey (14m 35s):

And I dunno if you've ever run across that, but I

Chris Goade (14m 37s):

I certainly have. I, you know, well, the fir the short answer to that question is yes, he can effectively le lead and, you know, we've all, we've heard, you've heard me say this and you've heard it from others, and we've all heard this before, you know, one of the bi biggest mistakes that, you know, business owners make, business leaders make, and I certainly saw this in my corporate career as well Yep. Back in the day. And that is to take your very best salesperson, and then make them the sales leader. Yep. And so, great salespeople are not necessarily great leaders or coaches or mentors, and great leaders are not necessarily the best salespeople.

Chris Goade (15m 21s):

Now I think that anyone who's leading a sales team, even if they haven't carried a bag before, to use your terminology, they're probably gonna learn how to do that in the process. Yeah. So it's, it's important that they're able to effectively be able to do that, even though you're clearly not gonna ask them to do that.

Dave Casey (15m 49s):

Yeah. And I think they have to have respect. Yeah. For the, the aspect of sales. That's the other thing.

Chris Goade (15m 55s):

Yeah. Because I, I've seen, you know, it's, this is not uncommon. And again, I think especially in larger organizations and more enterprise organizations, but not solely there, that people get put in leadership positions, and they come in with a very, you know, kind of hard line stance on what's gonna happen and what's gonna be done. And, you know, you've gotta be able, you know, leaders aren't anointed, Dave, you know, leaders are people that others will follow and want to follow. And so, you know, I think it's a, it's a very delicate situation to, to be a leader and to be effective as a leader.

Chris Goade (16m 42s):

And so the, the short answer is, sure, someone can be put into that sales leader role, not having carried a bag before and be successful at it, but they're gonna have to be even more intentional as they go through their learning and coaching and earning respect and building the right way to do things, and the right processes and the right accountability and the right KPIs. And so, but absolutely, there's no, there's no question. You know, and I, we get the same question when we've worked with companies. This doesn't happen very often anymore because of the many opportunities that we've had. But, you know, I've had early days in the consulting career, I've had people say, well, hey, you don't, you don't have this industry experience.

Chris Goade (17m 29s):

Yeah. How are you gonna be able to help us, you know, do this? Well, you know, there's, it's you, you learn, and there are certain ways to lead people. There are certain ways to build great sales systems, and there are certain ways to go, you know, build value for your customers. And we're able to define those things. And through that process, you learn about the business, and you learn about those.

Dave Casey (17m 53s):

Things. Yeah. And you, and you can tailor, you know, some of the processes and some of the methodologies, really trend, you know, go across industry. It, it's, you do have to incorporate, obviously, something that's unique to a particular industry. It might be regulatory, it might be, you know, there's a lot of, lot of situations where you do need to know how they, how they operate and how they make money. But, but yeah, so much of the base stuff, you know, I've always seen that, that, you know, good people are good people, good processes are, good processes are gonna work. So

Chris Goade (18m 28s):

Yeah, no doubt about it. Yeah, no doubt about it. I, I think you know, in a leadership role, in business, in a leadership role, in any organization, in a leadership role in your family, you have to be able to earn respect. Yeah. You're not anointed, whether we appreciate that or not. That's the very, that's the simple fact of the matter. Sure. So, and also think too, businesses that have a really good sales system in place, you know, can put a leader in that spot who maybe is not industry-wise, or maybe not, maybe they never carried a bag.

Chris Goade (19m 9s):

But if that company has a really good process, a really good sales system in place, has good people, knows the roles that need to be on their team, understands who their ideal customers are, clearly knows how to articulate their value proposition, and really has a process for the top of the funnel sales cycle and account management. If you have that system built, it's much easier to plug someone into that leadership spot than it is when you do not have that in place.

Dave Casey (19m 38s):

Well, it's a lot easier to bring an individual contributor aboard and make them more successful quickly. 100%.

Chris Goade (19m 46s):

Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Dave Casey (19m 47s):

And that's, that's usually the selling proposition we've talked to people about. Yeah. So one trap that I've seen, I've been guilty of early on when we formed our company, not Mastery, but the company that I had years ago, is a principle that's in the business that is carrying the load of business development and booking sales, and is reluctant to let go of that. And I know, I think you've probably run into that as well

.

Chris Goade (20m 19s):

All the time and currently.

Dave Casey (20m 22s):

And currently. Okay.

Chris Goade (20m 24s):

So

Dave Casey (20m 25s):

Not gonna name names now,

Chris Goade (20m 27s):

No names, no. We'll, we'll, we'll hold back names to protect the innocent, but, you know, it's really, look, you, you know, entrepreneurs get in their businesses because of passion or specific knowledge, or a combination of both and grit and determination and just, you know, just boots on the ground and just hard work and sweat equity and all that stuff. Yep. Right? And so that's awesome, but to get to a point, you get to a point where you're getting diminishing returns. Correct. You kind of hit the ceiling. Yeah. And it's really interesting, Dave, we've, we've seen so many of these situations where, you know, that business owner really has a hard time letting go of the reins, but kind of, it kind of helps, it's kind of an identity thing, right?

Chris Goade (21m 16s):

This is, they identify with their company, with their business, and being the rainmaker for the business. Yep. Bottom line, though, in every business that we work with, we try our very best to help that business owner get completely out of the sales seat. Yeah. They can't own the key customer relationship, so that doesn't mean that they can't still be involved. They should be. Yep. But they can't be the rainmaker for the business. And so, you know, if they're willing to be humble enough to appreciate that and be hungry enough to be able to want to actually grow their business, Yep.

Chris Goade (21m 56s):

Then they can let go of those reins and put the people in place, build the training and the process and the playbooks and the KPIs and all that system where they can have great success and focus on things that a business owner or a business leader needs to focus on. And it's often not that day-to-day grind of being a salesperson. Sure.

Dave Casey (22m 21s):

And that's, those are hard conversations, but I think they're necessary in a lot of cases. And I remember going through this myself. I mean, two of the things that bugged me, or were hindrances to me, had given this up, I guess one, one of 'em was the time to take and close the deal. It was like, I felt like I could go in and close a deal quicker with a comp, with a pers prospective client than the sales guy or the sales team that I had. And I'm just looking at it. I, you know, we want revenue quicker. I want to close the deal quicker. I think a lot of that, in retrospect, was just arrogance on my part.

Dave Casey (23m 1s):

I don't think we may have really closed 'em any faster than they would've closed them, but I sure thought we did. Right. And the second thing was just, and I think it was an ego deal. It was really just something that you guys line 'em up, and I'll come in and close 'em for you, you know, and that kind of deal. And, and it's, I had a great friend for many, many years. One of my best friends worked in the car business, and he says, and he said, car dealers are not all alike. Car dealers are way different if you go dealer to dealer, and there are certain dealers that are called liner closers that you hire kids, and you send them out on the lot, and they track down anybody that steps foot on the lot and gets talking to 'em and talk to 'em about cars.

Dave Casey (23m 42s):

And they're, these kids are all about cars. They know every, every specification. They know everything about cars. And then they get their idea is to get the client or prospective client all excited, and then you bring 'em in, and we'll close the deal. You know? So it's kind of a liner closer thing. And he says, other dealerships don't work that way at all, but some work that way, you know? And, I thought maybe I, I was guilty of that. I mean, I was guilty of hiring people who would go out and find, you know, prospects. And then I would go in and be the hero and, and then, and then partially take the credit, say, well, you know, you did a great job lining 'em up. Good thing I was here to close 'em. Right. Terrible, terrible way to build value in your business long-term.

Chris Goade (24m 26s):

Well, you know, there's a thing about being a, a great producer or a sales individual contributor. And that is, you know, when you really can help a customer, and they're happy and the company's happy, there's, there's the greatest feeling in the world putting. Yeah. Those two together. Right? And so there's a lot of satisfaction and gratification that comes from that. And so the business owner has to figure out a different way to fill that kind of gap. Right. And a lot of that is what you're describing, you know, and I, I also think that, you know, it's, you know, I can remember when I was a young sales manager back in the day, and for whatever reason I gravitated to, to coaching and teaching others how to do it, it wasn't, I felt like, I felt like I had accomplished enough as an individual contributor that I didn't need to prove that anymore.

Chris Goade (25m 19s):

Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's a, that's a difficult thing to get away from. But, you know, it's a mindset thing. It's, yeah. It's getting yourself in the right place to understand what's really important. And if you look at the big picture of a business, then you can step back out of that, and you can really make sure, hey, look, you've gotta have, you gotta have the right people. You know, you've gotta have the right compensation for those people. You have to have the right way to onboard and train them on the right metrics and accountability. All those things have to be in place. But if you do that, you can be very confident as a business owner that you can step out of that sales seat. Yeah, yeah. And let others do it, and multiply your knowledge, you know, there's power in that.

Dave Casey (26m 2s):

Yeah. If you're busy out there closing sales, you're, there are other aspects of your business you're not paying attention to first. Yeah. And then yeah. If, if you can find that force multiplier, that's a, that's a huge aspect to that. Yeah.

Chris Goade (26m 15s):

You know, I, I, I, I grew up in the restaurant business and learned how to cook at a very early age. And my dad was a great teacher, and the way he taught me was that he would just let me prepare things on my own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would tell me how to do it or take me through it, and then he would just let me do it. And if I messed up, well, we would have a conversation about that, or it'd be a learning experience, but,

Dave Casey (26m 41s):

Or you might not enjoy dinner that night.

Chris Goade (26m 43s):

But I learned how to, I learned how to be a really cook really fast because of the way he kind of, he kind of fed me the rope, you know? Yeah. Yeah. He let me make those mistakes. And so, yeah. You know, I mean, in business, you kind of, maybe sometimes you have to be careful about that. You know, you don't wanna lose a big deal, you don't wanna lose a big client. You can't, you know, it's all about preparation. It's all about the right people. It's all about building out that, that that ability to transfer that knowledge Yeah. Is just so important in a business.

Narrator (27m 15s):

Thank you for tuning in to the Maximize Business Value podcast. This episode is the first of a two-part release. Part two will be posted next week.

Tom Bronson (27m 25s):

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Maximize Business Value podcast. I hope today's conversation sparked new ideas on how you can continue driving value in your business. But remember, it's not just about listening, it's about taking massive action. Visit our website masterypartners.com for more resources. Grab a copy of any of the books in the Maximize Business Value series on Amazon or via the links below. And don't hesitate to reach out if you want to know how to apply these concepts to your business.

Tom Bronson (28m 6s):

So until next time, I'm Tom Bronson, reminding you to relentlessly execute while you maximize business value.