How Scalable is Your Talent? Part One (#264)

In this week’s episode of "Maximize Business Value," Dave Casey sits down with Melanie Shaffer, President and Founder of Talent Suite, for an in-depth conversation on a critical business hurdle: removing the barriers that prevent leaders from maximizing the potential of their people.

#maximizebusinessvalue #masterypartners #MelanieShaffer #TalentSuite #ScalingYourBusiness

GET THE BOOKS: Start with Maximizing Business Value by Tom Bronson

Learn More about Dave Casey
Dave Casey is a seasoned business owner with deep expertise in all aspects of organizational behavior and a passion for helping entrepreneurs reap the full rewards of building their companies. He understands that a truly valuable business isn’t just profitable—it’s secure, scalable, and transferable. In addition to his work with Mastery Partners, Dave actively gives back to the entrepreneurial community through leadership roles with organizations like Business Navigators, Biz Owners Ed, and Liberty Ministry. Whether advising on strategic growth or mentoring the next generation of business leaders, Dave brings clarity, integrity, and decades of real-world experience to every interaction. His mission goes beyond exit planning—he’s committed to helping owners build lasting legacies.

Learn More about Melanie Shaffer
Melanie Shaffer is President and Founder of Talent Suite. This Dallas-based talent strategy firm helps businesses grow by removing the barriers that prevent leaders from getting the most from their people. Her team designs turnkey solutions that provide their clients with the ability to consistently hire, develop and retain top talent. She has worked with companies in varied ownership structures and sizes ranging from Fortune 500 to emerging businesses which allows her to translate best practices from large companies into viable options for the mid-market. Prior to Talent Suite, she was a Partner and Owner in an executive recruiting and consulting firm that placed twice in the SMU Cox D100 fastest growing companies. Melanie is a top-rated speaker in the talent space that is frequently requested by Vistage International CEO Peer groups, professional organizations and leadership conferences. She is a Talent Optimization Certified Consultant, Predictive Index Certified Partner, and a Gallup Certified Strengths Coach.

Mastery Partners

Elevating Businesses to Achieve The Business Owner’s Dream Exit 
The unfortunate reality is that for every business that comes on the market (for whatever reason), only 17% of them achieve a successful exit. You read that right. 83% of attempted business transitions never reach the closing table. Mastery Partners is on a mission to change that. We ELEVATE businesses to achieve maximum value and reach that dream exit.

Our objectives are simple - understand where the business is today, identify opportunities for dramatic improvement, and offer solutions to enhance the business, making it more marketable and valuable. And that all starts with understanding the business owner’s definition of his or her dream exit.  
Mastery has developed a 4-Step Process to help business owners achieve their dreams.

STEP 1: Transition Readiness Assessment
STEP 2: Roadmap for Value Acceleration
STEP 3: Relentless Execution
STEP 4: Decision: Now that desired results are achieved, the business is ready for the next step in the journey!

CONNECT WITH MASTERY PARTNERS TO LEARN MORE
LinkedIn
Website

© 2025 Mastery Partners, LLC.

Transcript

Tom Bronson (0s): Welcome to the Maximize Business Value Podcast, brought to you by masterypartners, where our mission is to equip business owners like you to maximize your business value and achieve the exit of your dreams, whatever that means to you. With insights gained from over a hundred business transactions, we share real world strategies, lessons, and expert advice to help you build long term sustainable value in your business. 

Each episode is hosted by one of our Mastery certified partners, their seasoned experts who've helped countless business owners navigate the complexities of growth, scaling, and building value. They bring firsthand experience, actionable insights, and a passion for helping you build a business that thrives. So, let's dive in. 

Speaker 2 (1m 3s): This episode is the second of a two part release. To hear Part One, follow the link below. Thank you for listening to the Maximize Business Value Podcast. 

Dave Casey (1m 12s): Hi, this is Dave Casey and Welcome to the Maximize Business Value Podcast. So this is a series of podcasts that are specifically for business owners that are intent about building long-term sustainable value in their business. Today I am so excited to be joined by Melanie Shaffer of TalentSuite. So Melanie, welcome to the podcast. 

Melanie Shaffer (1m 35s): Thanks Dave. Thanks for having me here. 

Dave Casey (1m 38s): So, I know you've been on the podcast before with Tom and you know, with dealing with Tom is just kind of a whirlwind. So we, we'll forget about that whole experience, but it, 

Melanie Shaffer (1m 48s): Hey, he's like me. So I, I feel at home with Tom. It's okay. Yeah. 

Dave Casey (1m 53s): It's hard to keep up with 'em. So tell me a little bit about your background and, you know, for our viewers that may not have seen that podcast, you know, your background and how, how you got to talent, you know, how you got to found your company. 

Melanie Shaffer (2m 6s): Yeah, so this is actually my second company that I founded. I started my career as a CPA and quickly realized I was misplaced and fell into, 

Dave Casey (2m 17s): I can't even comprehend you being an analyst or a CPA, 

Melanie Shaffer (2m 20s): Oh, let me tell you, you don't wanna see the work I produced. It was not my best work. Took me a while to figure that out, but it gave me some exposure that helped me when I got into the recruiting space on the agency side. Most people fall into agency recruiting 'cause they don't know what else to do. Yeah. So I recruited CPAs for many years and then I founded a executive recruiting firm several years ago with partners and got into the space of supporting CFOs and transactions and placing CFOs. 

And that really opened my eyes to the need for CEOs to better understand how to be, bring in the right executive team members and integrate them. And that's what led me to starting TalentSuite nine years ago. Wow. When I started TalentSuite, it was born from a mission to help leaders work better and be more productive and ultimately more fulfilled. 

Dave Casey (3m 18s): Neat. That was neat then. It's been expanding since then. And, and I know that I think the last time you were on the podcast we talked about using analytics and using, you know, predictive index in in particular and stuff like that. But I know what you do is, is way beyond that. So that, that's one aspect maybe of of what, what, how you help folks, but what, what has that expanded into now? 

Melanie Shaffer (3m 45s): Well, I, I know you and I both have had many expanded roles that when you start a business out of a passion of solving an issue, you think it's X, but it's really like x plus all the things that get to Z Right? And so when we got in and started working with Predictive Index, because I'd used it in the other business, I was an owner in to hire people and then also solve the dilemma of is it a hiring or a training problem that we have? Like once they're getting here, is there a bigger issue in how we're deploying people to be able to be productive and supporting them? 

And so we had that problem, but I kind of forgot the second half of the equation when I started this company. It was more like, let's focus on helping them hire the right people and put them in the right seats. And as the company evolves, make sure they're in the right seats. That's the obvious problem that most business owners wanna solve because it's a check the box thing. Like once I have someone in the right seats, they'll magically do everything and they'll be able to scale leadership in the organization. What we do today that we didn't start out doing is as we implemented a behavioral analytic, which is predictive index and there's many of them out there that companies can use to understand their people, we started seeing that putting people in the right seats is only half the solution. 

The other half is how are you providing them with the ability to create ownership in the organization at all levels. 

Dave Casey (5m 18s): Yeah. It's not just a skilled thing or even a, you know, a passion thing. It's you, you've gotta, they've gotta feel that same desire that usually the business owner has, but, but certainly getting the rest of the team into that, that desire is, is a, is a difficult deal. 

Melanie Shaffer (5m 36s): Yeah. And the complexity of that issue obviously varies depending on the owner's desire for how far they wanna go in scaling their business and what their goals are, at what point they wanna exit or transition it. Sure. 

Dave Casey (5m 51s): Yeah. And that's kind of where we, we get involved with folks. So one of the challenges, I've gotta ask this, 'cause one of the challenges I would think there is if it's an owner led business, they don't like to let go of stuff like that. You know, they, they are, even if they want to build a team, sometimes they, it's very hard for them to turn things over to where every, all the team members are actually leading that, that section of the business and, and making those, making those decisions and doing that. 

So to me that's, that's one of the biggest challenges we have. Overcoming probably the number one, I think is the number one problem of, of owner led businesses looking to transition in some way, is that they're way too dependent on the owner, you know, that they haven't done what you do is, which has helped develop this team. So where it's a, it's a self-running kind of situation. 

Melanie Shaffer (6m 49s): I think you're right. And it, it's interesting. Sorry, there's a fly when you're thinking about 

Dave Casey (6m 53s): That makes for a good television. Yeah. 

Melanie Shaffer (6m 55s): I'm like, well what's she doing there? The 

Dave Casey (6m 58s): Squirrel? 

Melanie Shaffer (6m 59s): I would agree with you. So what's interesting is we've spent the last six months gathering research on our 250 clients and dialing down into the root causes of why the companies had hit a plateau and were not either able to move forward and continue growing or they were growing at what we call all costs, which is eh, eh, eh, 

Dave Casey (7m 23s): Yes. Oh yeah. Right. 

Melanie Shaffer (7m 24s): Yeah. So 'cause that's what we solve. Yeah. And so we wanted to look at our own data and see what are the most common root causes of these people issues. And we found three when we dial down, starting with like a hundred and started creating themes and bringing 'em down and down and interviewing our clients. It boiled down to what we call ownership gaps is the number one, which is what you just said. And sometimes it's the founder, sometimes it's some person on their team that's, you know, the sacred cow that's been allowed to retain ownership and the owner knows they need to do something about it. 

Yeah. 

Dave Casey (7m 59s): Uncle Charlie, I call the Uncle Charlie syndrome, you know, what's Uncle Charlie here? Well, he's always been here know, 

Melanie Shaffer (8m 5s): But that's always calls into, in our assessment that we give around people drama that's ownership gaps. Yep. The second one is what we call the under performance trap. And that's where you have leaders in the organization that don't understand how to delegate effectively, how to set expectations and how to deliver feedback. Hmm. And so we end up working with those types of companies, meeting them where they are looking at what they're already doing and giving them like bite-size ways to start implementing those things in their organization. 

And then the third is what we call the role fit gap. And that's where you either are hiring some of the wrong people, you're missing someone you need to continue moving forward, or you've got one or more people in a critical seat that are misplaced. Yeah. And so it's a matter of stepping back to deciding can we equip this person to function in this seat? And that takes some work on our part to assess and understand that, or do I need to separate some of their work? We call that kind of repurpose reallocate, you know, or is this just not going to work and we need to figure out the right graceful asset. 

So 

Speaker 3 (9m 20s): Now if you, if you run into the, the scaling issue, which the way I describe it is, you know, and I I just have kind of the evolution when I had my company and, you know, we started with two people and then we, we, we started adding people eventually. We didn't get huge, we had like 30 folks when I, when I exited the company. But the, the situation was you'd hire somebody, you'd kind of enable them and equip 'em and, and get 'em going at their position, but inevitably the position kind of outgrew them. 

You know, we had that scenario where they were great when we were a $5 million company, but when you're a 10 million company, maybe they're not the right fit anymore, at least for that position. Certainly a fit within the company somewhere. But, but to scale, sometimes you need somebody with just more horsepower at certain location, certain parts. And those are hard conversations. You know, when, when you, when you're in that scenario and they're very hard. And, and we've always tried, well we tried and we encourage our clients, obviously to everyone that comes on board, you wanna hire the best person you can for the position that that has some capability to, to grow within that position. 

But also you map out a career path. You know, so one of the challenge, and you probably run into something like this, the company that I worked for before I founded my company, they had a thing called a senior sales role, which was, this is a, this is a salesperson that's never gonna go into management, he's never gonna manage other sales folks. No matter how well he does or she does in that position. They, they're, they're really good at what they're doing and that's what they want to do. 

And they don't want to manage people. That's just, they're, they're good at what they do and that's fine and they'll follow a process. You change the process, they'll follow it. But it's a situation that you, you kind of eke out a spot for that person. And, and, and that applies across the organization sometimes. So, so to me that HR and people problems were the most challenging thing I ever dealt with with a company. And it's so great that you have an organization that can address that. So that's huge. 

Melanie Shaffer (11m 31s): Well, I always say these things are not one and done. There's no push button solution outsourcing it is gonna be a temporary relief. Yeah. So I'm not denying that it is a journey if you wanna continue to have a sustainable, growing business Yeah. And you can grow at all costs. That is possible. We are for the companies that wanna grow in a way that's sustainable. Yeah. 

Dave Casey (11m 57s): Yeah. Well, and yeah, that's, that's man, that, that is so key. And, and, and as you mentioned, kind of doesn't necessarily mean people come and go. It means maybe their roles change over time. 

Melanie Shaffer (12m 10s): Yeah. And if people have the opportunity to have a relationship with their boss where they're having conversations on a regular basis with a structure we provide where there's clarity on where they need and want development. Yep. Then they can decide what they're willing to own. Yeah. And oftentimes when we're able to get in and get the analytics and spend time coaching someone that's having performance issues, we're able to bring back information to the owner that allows them to decide, do I wanna continue investing in coaching this person or do I need to have a bigger conversation? 

Yeah. Yeah. And I've told owners many times, sometimes you have to invest in coaching one of your key leaders because you're not emotionally ready to make a decision. And when I told you data not drama, part of collecting data is performance data. So let's invest in this person Yeah. To help you make this decision. And they are saying they want coaching. So get them coaching for six months. And if that doesn't move the needle, you've now got performance data that's layered on performance data, that's layered on performance data and then you feel comfortable making an emotional decision. 

Yep. 

Dave Casey (13m 37s): Yep. Instead 

Melanie Shaffer (13m 38s): Of letting drama continue. 

Speaker 3 (13m 39s): That is, you know, we, we talk a lot about systems and processes with, with with business owners. 'cause a lot of our, a lot of our clients are in that three to $15 million range of companies. And unless they came from a bigger background, a lot of times their systems and processes are just kind of make do or we kind of Sure. Invented on the fly kind of thing. That creates a lot of drama because, you know, you, you particularly, I'll just use sales as an example 'cause it's one of my my areas. 

But, you know, if, if a salesperson could be doing great for a while, then they're not. And then, okay, how do we get you back on track? And, and, and many times it's, you know, it was a series of events that that led to their success. A different series of events led to their less than success. But if there's not a built-in process, a very well-defined, this is our process, if you follow the process, you'll be successful. 

That, that leads to a lot of one-on-one person to person kind of confrontation versus Okay, are you following the process? If you are, then inevitably you're gonna get better results. If you're not, then we found the problem and you know, we've gotta, we gotta work on that. But it takes a lot of the drama out. It's really all data driven at that point. 

Melanie Shaffer (15m 5s): Yeah. I see it as kind of three pronged in what you're saying. So in running a business that size, you absolutely have to have core processes in the areas that you guys come in and help them create mastery around. Yep. Okay. That's number one. You know, number two, you have to have a process for how you structure and hold people accountable to having ongoing one-to-ones with their team members. And that's the gap I see most missing. And that's because leaders don't know how to, even when they have the process, they're like, what if the person says this? 

What if they say they don't like their job? What if I don't have the answer? So they resist number two. And number three is you've gotta give them the training of how to have relationship based conversations with their direct reports. That's we do number two and three. Number two and three. Yeah. And If you don't have these two, it doesn't matter if you have a bunch of processes in your business. Yeah. 

Dave Casey (16m 10s): Yeah. And that's, I came from the tech, you know, IT world. So it's all systems and processes in it. And there is this huge gap of, of people, well people handling issues, I guess, you know, and, and it's, we're where we've always seemed to have problems. We've got engineers, right? Engineers do not want to have person to person talk. Give me, give me all the data, give me the, give me the process, I'll follow the process. 

I would like to do it on my own. I really don't wanna be on the team. I don't wanna do this. So it's, it's, and that's a generalization, but just in typically engineering folks and engineering minded folks are, love the process. Don't really like the human interaction as much. And that was a always a challenge because who's gonna manage, you need somebody that has all those skills to manage that kind of team. 

Melanie Shaffer (17m 6s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I'd say it's across all the industries right now, Dave, I'm seeing, you know, I speak nationally and Vistage. So I'm in the room with the key executives, the CEOs, all the way down to the emerging leaders all throughout the year in all kinds of places and companies in varying sizes that are, you know, members in these groups. And you know, one company that we've been working with recently that's in the footprint you serve, they're around 7 million top line. They're a marketing agency. Yeah. The president reached out to me because he said, oh, the Vistage chair, who runs this, the group he is in, so I need to talk to you about this predictive index because I'm having people issues. 

I'm like, okay, so let's talk about what is it that you're looking for this to provide in your business? And let's talk about where you are as the questions you would ask in your business strategy and blah, blah, blah. So it turns out he called me to have a transactional process, push button conversation, which is where most of these people start with me. Yep. By the end of the conversation, he realized I have a much bigger issue Yeah. Than slapping a process or slapping a tool in place to solve it. Yeah. And it turns out he had a leader that had been promoted that was having issues with how she was behaving with her employees. 

And he thought a tool could solve that. Yeah. Number two, he was promoted above someone else in the organization where there was, when I started asking questions, some tension he had not even acknowledged until we had the bigger conversation. So I often say that my job is reframing. So when CEOs reach out to me, they think they need one thing by the end of the conversation, they either are like, this is too hard. And I, I'm, I just wanted the tool and so I refer 'em somewhere else. 

If that's all you want is a tool, we're not Yeah. We're really not the value that you're gonna, we're we provide so much more. Yeah. So we're not for you, but if you're looking for a way to grow a sustainable business and embed habits, that's us. Yeah. And so that's what we've been doing for that company, is getting in and helping him even have conversations with this person that's having behavioral issues that the question I asked him is, how important is it to you to retain this leader you've promoted that is not behaving appropriately? 

He said critically. Yeah. Okay. Do you think she's coachable? I don't know. I haven't talked with her about it yet. So I mean, it turned into like, I'm coaching him how to approach her. So, you know, those size of companies, how we engage with them. Dave looks a lot different than how I engage with a 50 million plus company. Sure. Right. Because they already understand these things that I'm coaching this $7 million company about. But I work with all ranges because I love working with companies Yeah. 

At his size to move past these things that they just take some habits we have to help you create and some coaching, and then you're gonna be off to the races. 

Speaker 1 (20m 11s): Yeah. 

Dave Casey (20m 13s): Yeah. That was, that was another question I was gonna ask you even before we started on this conversation was, was where have you seen what's, what's been some of the most fulfilling type engagements you've had where you, what you brought to the table really moved the needle for these people and do that? 'cause then I, and I know that's, that goes way beyond just providing a tool. So that's, that's a lot deeper. 

Tom Bronson (20m 48s): Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Maximize Business Value Podcast. I hope today's conversation sparked new ideas on how you can continue driving value in your business. But remember, it's not just about listening, it's about taking massive action. Visit our website masterypartners dot com for more resources. Grab a copy of any of the books in the Maximize Business Value series on Amazon or via the links below. 

And don't hesitate to reach out if you want to know how to apply these concepts to your business. So until next time, I'm Tom Bronson reminding you to relentlessly execute while you Maximize Business Value.