In this episode, we talk about the different types of protein and why using a blend is so important. A WPI seems to be the popular choice but if you're not using a blend you're missing out on some serious benefits!
If you want your own questions answered on our podcast, then join our private Facebook group and share your ideas, https://www.facebook.com/groups/muscletalk
If you'd like to learn more about International Protein, visit https://www.international-protein.com/
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A Thinkroom production - www.thinkroom.com
In this episode, we talk about the different types of protein and why using a blend is so important. A WPI seems to be the popular choice but if you're not using a blend you're missing out on some serious benefits!
If you want your own questions answered on our podcast, then join our private Facebook group and share your ideas, https://www.facebook.com/groups/muscletalk
If you'd like to learn more about International Protein, visit https://www.international-protein.com/
------------------------------------------------------
A Thinkroom production - www.thinkroom.com
Ash Horton:
Welcome to Muscle Talk where you'll get well championed advice about nutrition and stacking on muscle. Our host Christina Envall, she's a three time world champion bodybuilder and IFBB professional, a food scientist, and a founding co-owner of our podcast sponsor International Protein.
Ash Horton:
In this episode, we talk about the different types of proteins and using a blend is so important. A WPI seems to be the popular choice, but if you're not using a blend, you're missing out on some serious benefits. Why is a protein blend so important, Christine?
Christine Envall:
A protein blend is important because it allows you to take the best of every different type of protein or the proteins that we've chosen and utilize those. So as you know, I like variety. So there is no one perfect thing. There is no one perfect protein that has the perfect amino acid profile and the perfect digestion rate and the perfect texture. So by making a blend, you give something where you get the best of all worlds. So you get the best of the profile of a calcium caseinate. You get the best of a profile of a whey protein isolate. You get the best of an egg albumin, but you also get different digestion rates. So just taking a step back from that, I'm going to just kind of start off by saying that protein isn't protein.
Christine Envall:
I know we talk about it like it's this big category and people needing to have protein, but just so that, we are aware, I guess, if you're eating a steak, you're eating chicken, you're eating fish, all protein sources. You're eating, milk or you're eating a protein powder. They're all different. They all have different micronutrients, they all have a different amino acid profile. Obviously they look different. If you're looking at something as basic as chicken and beef, and I know we've done a podcast on that, the texture is different. The flavor's obviously different.
Ash Horton:
The digestion's different.
Christine Envall:
The digestion different and the amino acid profile is different. So whilst they can still contain all of the amino acids that you need, they still have different ratios of those amino acids. So that's talking about the broader groups. Then when people talk about protein powder, they just refer to it as protein powder. But it's the same thing applies there. Really, I guess if you're talking about animal based proteins, you have whey protein isolate, then you have hydrolyzed whey protein isolate. So that's where you've taken that isolate, chopped up the amino acid... Sorry, chopped up the protein chains into smaller amino acid chains. That's what we call peptides. So that's a much more rapidly digested version of whey protein isolate, which is already rapidly digested.
Christine Envall:
Then you have a whey protein concentrate. Which in the processing point, it's not as isolated, meaning that there's still more fat and lactose left in with that. So it's exactly the same protein that's in a way protein isolate, but the difference is there's more fat and there's more lactose, which is the natural milk sugars. So isolate and concentrate and hydrolyze all coming from the same family, but they're all digesting differently and the other macronutrient ratios are different.
Ash Horton:
So, which is the right protein to be taking prior to a workout and which is the right one post-workout?
Christine Envall:
Okay. So post-workout is relatively easy, because you want something that's quickly digested and then has a really high level of leucine. So that's something like your whey protein isolate mixed with a degree of your way peptides. So, you can argue that you want to have more whey peptides cause it gets in quicker, but there becomes a point where that product itself can become very unpalatable because it's hydrolyzed. If you have a heavily hydrolyzed product, it's very bitter. So most people aren't going to want to... they're not going to want to take that in. When it comes to beforehand though, I would be inclined to use a blend of those different proteins, because, I didn't get a chance to talk about the other ones there, Ash.
Ash Horton:
Sorry. I jumped the gun today.
Christine Envall:
You did, you did.
Ash Horton:
Apologies. Talk about the other ones first, if you wish.
Christine Envall:
Yeah. So we've talked about the ones which had just whey. So what I'm saying about that is that really the same family. So you're really getting the same protein. What varies obviously is the creaminess because in a concentrate you've got more fats and more sugar. So it's going to taste thicker and creamier. And it is a little slower to digest, but not terribly much slower to digest. But the actual amino acids that you're getting are the same. Then if you move to a non dairy based product, you're looking at something like an egg albumin, which was the original gold standard before protein powder, I guess got invented or before they isolated and extracted the whey proteins people, used to use a lot of egg albumin, more egg white as a protein source.
Christine Envall:
Now it's a medium digestion protein. So it's getting into your body and more like that sort of four hour mark, which is where the whey's already been all digested by then and casein hasn't really started to get into your system. So it's in that middle range? The amino acid profile is very, very similar to what a human needs. So it's not particularly strong in one or another, but it's a very good overall profile. And it's also obviously coming from the whole food it's just basically being extra... Taken the yolk out and dried. You can also obviously get protein out of the egg yolk, but then that comes with a lot more fat. And that's why you don't see it too much in bodybuilding products because we don't necessarily want to eat that extra fat that comes in with the egg yolk, but that exists as well, obviously, egg yolk protein.
Christine Envall:
Then, the next more common ones are your caseins and that's your casein family. You have your micellar casein, which what that means is it's for casein how it naturally exists in milk. So, this talks about the structure of it. As soon as you turn it into calcium caseinate, it does change the structure, but it doesn't change the amino acid profile and it doesn't change the rate that you digest it. So they are different, but essentially the way that your body is treating them is pretty much the same. Then you have a milk protein isolate, which is basically like whole milk. So it has whey and casein. So it's got some quicker digesting and some slower digesting components. And that's the product which is really popular now in you're seeing a lot of the custards because the texture is totally different.
Christine Envall:
It makes a nice thick custard-like product. Whereas the whey protein isolate, it's going to turn into water. It's going to be, as you know, it's very, very runny. So there's digestion rate, there's amino acid profile and then there's the texture which all go into making these proteins different and people choose them for different reasons. So coming back to your question about before training, I much prefer to have something which has a range of different release rates. Because if you have something which is very quickly released, when you take it before your workout, and then you go into do your workout and then potentially your body has processed it and the amino acids aren't there available for you to use, you're putting yourself into a situation where you could go catabolic.
Christine Envall:
You could also take something like complete aminos in between times. So that's a possibility if people want to do that. But I like, I think textually as well, having something a little bit more substantial, which is a blended protein is going to be a little bit thicker because it has the caseins which make the product more a little bit thicker. So that's another thing to consider, obviously, you know how you actually [crosstalk 00:07:22].
Ash Horton:
Let's just backtrack for a minute. I'm here to ask the dumb questions, explain what you mean by going catabolic.
Christine Envall:
Okay. So going catabolic is when you're in a negative nitrogen balance. So what you ideally want to do is stay in a positive nitrogen balance, which means that you are in a state of being able to grow. You've got all the amino acids that you need in your system. If you don't have the protein in your system, because your body has stored it, taken it out of your blood, it's not there available for use. It means it needs to break down your muscle to fulfill that need for any protein that it has at that time. So, catabolic just basically means to break down and anabolic basically means to build.
Ash Horton:
So you Should never really work out without protein in your system? Medium release protein in your system.
Christine Envall:
Ideally. Yeah. And that's why we do have products like the complete aminos, which was another category that I didn't really talk about is obviously a hydrolyzed casein. So it's the same thing as in the whey where you take the longer chains and you break them up into smaller chains. The reason why the casein is good is because it has amino acids, which are particularly good to use while you work out. It's ones which spare your muscle and also guess spare your carbohydrates if you're on a low carb diet. So, it's basically helping with the recovery. So, it can kind of overcome the issue if you do take a protein, which is to quickly released. Because a lot of people do like to take a WPI before they train. But that potential is that the body has processed it and put it into storage whilst they're still in their workout. And that's when you definitely will need to look a product like an intro workout to give you the amino acids that you need in there.
Christine Envall:
But ideally some people maybe don't want to chain on a full stomach, not a full stomach, but I talked to a lot of people who weight train, and we all talk about like, the reason we don't like to train in the morning so much is because you feel a little bit empty. Even though you might've eaten plenty of food the night before your body has digested it. And you're training on an empty stomach if you're trying to go heavy, is actually quite difficult.
Ash Horton:
Yeah.
Christine Envall:
So if you're training, if you're eating or drinking WPI before you train, there's a really good chance that your body recognizes that like drinking water as such and your stomach emptied out and you're in the middle of a training session and you've also got now an empty stomach and it's a lot harder to train like that. So something which is going to digest a little bit more slowly, something like the Protein Synergy, which breaks down and still will be breaking down during that workout and allow you to feel like you've got something a little bit more substantial.
Ash Horton:
So is Synergy the only or the best option within the International Protein range for that.
Christine Envall:
It is. Yeah. So, the rest of the products, obviously the Superior Whey is a blend of all the types of whey. And obviously the Immuno Charged WPI is your peptides, your whey peptides with your whey protein isolate and the Gourmet WPI is just a WPI. If you're looking for a product like Extreme Mass, I think that's also a really, really great pre-workout because it has your carbs, it has your MCT oils, which break down quickly. So they are like the high energy fats, but they break down like a carbohydrate. So they don't take a long time to get into your system.
Christine Envall:
So that's also a really, really great option because it's that dilemma of what you eat before training, what's your carbs source going to be that doesn't take too long to break down? It's convenient to eat. Sometimes, you want to have something, but you don't have time to sit there with a knife and fork eating something. That is kind of like the perfect pre-workout to me, something like the Extreme Mass, because as a good balance of macros.
Ash Horton:
So Extreme Mass or Synergy?
Christine Envall:
That would be my two. I think a lot of people would also go the Heavyweight.
Ash Horton:
Which one though? For you.
Christine Envall:
Okay. For me personally, because I'm not trying to gain a huge amount of weight would be Synergy.
Ash Horton:
Right.
Christine Envall:
But if someone is going through a really heavy muscle building phase and they really need those extra calories, then something like the Extreme Mass would be a much better idea. But then if I'm in a hurry, I will definitely use the Extreme Mass as a bit of a meal replacement. Because it's got everything that I need and I know that eating it in the right quantity just gives me the calories that I need. So just because we say the serving is a hundred grams, doesn't mean to say, you'd have to have a hundred grams. You might find that 50 grams gives you what you need and perfect. But if it was a younger person, I would probably say the Heavyweight would be a good option as well. Because, someone who's doing more of a sport than just necessarily weight training someone who's going to use a lot more carbs, then that would also be a good option for them.
Ash Horton:
So with everything we've said training fasted would be a bad idea?
Christine Envall:
Yes. Yeah. Doing cardio fasted is par for the course. I think that's fairly normal. And I think that cardio is something which is probably even better done on an empty stomach because you feel lighter. If you've got a bit of a heavy meal in there and you're trying to jump around or push hard, you can feel kind of nauseous or it makes you feel thirstier and your blood's going to the wrong place. You want it in your muscles, you don't want it into your stomach, but when it comes to weight training, it's something that you need to feel solid and you need to feel strong. And if you've got an empty stomach and you're trying to push heavy weights, it is definitely a lot harder. So if someone does train in the morning, it's a really good idea if they can try to wake up early enough to at least get something in their stomach about an hour before they hit the gym.
Ash Horton:
Okay. And if someone's, I guess, in their shred cycle and in a calorie deficit, should they be using those sorts of pre-workout products?
Christine Envall:
The sorts of pre-workout products, as in meaning a pre-workout or meaning?
Ash Horton:
N, sorry, I meant the Synergy or the Extreme Mass, for example.
Christine Envall:
Yeah. And again, it really depends on working it into your diet and nutrition plan. So anything's possible. If you have a certain number of calories that you need to eat per day, but you need to put the bulk of those calories before you train, then work your diet out that way so that you have the correct food before you train. And then the meal afterwards, you're getting potentially the protein that you need afterwards. But maybe you're going a little bit lighter on the carbs, but you're having your heavier carb meal after your cardio workout, because your body's going to take those carbs up better after the cardio workout than after the weight training workout. So it's about looking at your diet, your training, and then fitting the diet around it. So you can still use those products.
Ash Horton:
Well, this is very interesting subject, Christine, is there anything else that you'd like to add?
Christine Envall:
Well, I guess I'd like to add that International Protein actually started with a blend. So Synergy being, because of my belief in that there is no one perfect protein and wanting to get something which was suitable for people to take even between meals or pre-workout and get that influx of amino acids into their system. When we were doing that, it was also a lot of research coming out how the pre-workout meal was probably even more important than the post-workout. There's so much focus on the post-workout meal, but the pre-workout meal is the one which is more important. I mean, obviously you need to get that leucine in afterwards to start the recovery process. But if protein is in there beforehand, that process is a lot better. And then obviously we've talked about how you need to have your protein throughout the day. It's not just that one thing that you do at that one point in time.
Christine Envall:
So when we were starting International Protein, we started off with the Protein Synergy and the Extreme Carbs, because I wanted to give people that option of fueling their body for training, which obviously the carbs did, or you're giving that flexibility of dosing a carbohydrate, because it's much easier to do it like that. Then rice is pretty good, but it's always not the most convenient thing to eat and everything else like a slice of bread and things like that. It's just a little bit too hit and miss, because a lot of people don't like eating just like a plain slice of bread. So it's, then you got to put something with it and then it becomes your macros are all over the place. So I wanted something that was really like pure protein, pure carbohydrate. You could mix and match and put together, but that was essentially how we got started on a blend. And then obviously the isolates came a lot later.
Ash Horton:
So, did you do that for yourself primarily to start with?
Christine Envall:
Yes.
Ash Horton:
And you decided that it was a really great product and you thought you'd take it to market.
Christine Envall:
Yeah, well, that's actually kind of the story of International Protein is that I had always been given access to just basically the raw materials. I worked at a dairy company and we were across the road from New Zealand Milk Products, which obviously had the whey protein isolates and caseinates. And the companies would give me the big 20 kilo bags of them and I would make up my own mixes. And that's what I would do. I would ask for the different ones that I could make my own blend. And that was when people started saying, "Oh, you should do your own supplement company." And so of course I based it off what I had been using myself and what I believed was the best type of products to use. So, that is essentially how we got started.
Ash Horton:
Yeah. Interesting story. So what was the second product just out of interest?
Christine Envall:
As in what did we launch after those two?
Ash Horton:
After Synergy. Yeah, what was your next progression?
Christine Envall:
While the Extreme Carbs was launched at the same time, and I think we had talked about in the past how we had the Tri-Phase.
Ash Horton:
That's right, yeah.
Christine Envall:
Which was to me a better post-workout product, because it did have the much heavier amount of your whey peptides. So, it basically had your whey family. It had your hydrolyzed or your peptide whey, your isolating your concentrate. Because that lasted in the system for about two hours, which was that perfect post-workout period. But most people just didn't want to see that amount of fat and carbs in the product. And that's where the Immuno Charged WPI took over and became a more popular product because people just want pure protein. They didn't want anything else with it. So I kind of ran with that even though to me, the other product was a little bit better, but the market just didn't understand it.
Christine Envall:
And we just didn't have the social media and things like that, that we have now to be able to really educate. It was like one-on-one at a booth trying to talk to people and people would, "Nah, it's too expensive." Because it's got concentrate in it. And that was pretty much where that went. Glutamine was actually the product that we launched after that because as you know, after protein comes glutamine and then obviously we did the extreme mass.
Ash Horton:
So coming back to the blends, do you think this is something that a lot of people, I guess, people that really know bodybuilding and are competing in everything, they are all over it, but do you think a lot of the weekend warrior is just totally miss this?
Christine Envall:
I believe so. Because as I said, I think people just see protein as protein and they don't necessarily look at what type of protein that they're taking and because there's so much marketing around Isolate and people either going, "Oh, okay. I just want the highest protein product that there is." Even though now I'm seeing a switch and people just looking for lower protein products, but they are just really getting a lot of concentrate, which is bringing in a lot of extra sugars and fats, but they're just saying, "Oh, well it's a protein powder and it's whey." And they're not really understanding the differences.
Christine Envall:
And they just get told that whey is the best. Whey does have a great profile, but as I said, it's not the be all and end all. And the digestion rate is quite quick. And I think that people don't necessarily even think about that, that there is a difference in how it digests and how long it stays in their system, because they're just being told protein, whey and they just assume that it's all that. It's either that, or it's a vegan or a plant-based protein, which-
Ash Horton:
Surely if it's this sort of sustaining you over time, it must be good for your mood as well?
Christine Envall:
I believe so, but also the caseins in there do have amino acids like tryptophan, which actually improve mood. So, that's kind of an aside factor, but obviously anything which is... It's probably not as important to say as a carbohydrate because you don't notice that drop necessarily as when your blood sugar goes out of your system, that your amino acids, like you're not necessarily aware that they've been run out of your system. So I'm not quite sure about the mood side of it, but I definitely know that obviously when I'm talking about different amino acids sequences, the amino acids that are in a casein are more of a good mood type of product than what and what then what are whey is.
Ash Horton:
Okay. This is a really interesting stuff. Thank you very much, Christine. Words of wisdom. If you like what you've heard, leave us a review and recognize that these bodybuilding tips from international protein, they are free, so show you support by becoming a loyal International Protein customer. The best supplements money can buy. So jump online, hunt down our product and hit that buy now button.