Muscle Talk - By International Protein

Unhealthy Foods

June 23, 2021 International Protein Season 4 Episode 7
Muscle Talk - By International Protein
Unhealthy Foods
Chapters
Muscle Talk - By International Protein
Unhealthy Foods
Jun 23, 2021 Season 4 Episode 7
International Protein

 In this episode, we cover which foods people think are healthy but might be tripping you up in your overall calorie intake. We cover how the health star rating works and how your combination of foods is still the most important factor.



  • The definition of a healthy food
  • Star rating on foods
  • Ready-made protein drinks
  • Plant Milk 
  • Read the labels


If you want your own questions answered on our podcast, then join our private Facebook group and share your ideas,  https://www.facebook.com/groups/muscletalk

If you'd like to learn more about International Protein, visit https://www.international-protein.com/






------------------------------------------------------
A Thinkroom production - www.thinkroom.com

Show Notes Transcript

 In this episode, we cover which foods people think are healthy but might be tripping you up in your overall calorie intake. We cover how the health star rating works and how your combination of foods is still the most important factor.



  • The definition of a healthy food
  • Star rating on foods
  • Ready-made protein drinks
  • Plant Milk 
  • Read the labels


If you want your own questions answered on our podcast, then join our private Facebook group and share your ideas,  https://www.facebook.com/groups/muscletalk

If you'd like to learn more about International Protein, visit https://www.international-protein.com/






------------------------------------------------------
A Thinkroom production - www.thinkroom.com

Ash Horton:
Welcome to Muscle Talk where you'll get world champion advice about nutrition and stacking on muscle. Our host, Christine Envall, she's a three time world champion bodybuilder and IFBB professional, a food scientist, and a founding co-owner of our podcast sponsor, International Protein.

Ash Horton:
In this episode, we cover which foods people think are healthy, but they might be tripping you up in your overall calorie intake. We cover how the health star rating works and how a combination of foods is still the most important factor.

Ash Horton:
Okay, Christine. So there's plenty of foods out there that are sleepers. I'm sure they seem to be healthy, but they're not healthy. So what are they and what should we avoid?

Christine Envall:
Okay. That's a loaded question, Ash and anyone who knows me knows that I talk a lot about, it's not really a healthy food as much as a healthy diet, so it can be very hard to single out a food out of context of the whole diet and say, oh, that's not healthy, that is healthy. Some things obviously you can say are less healthy because of certain components in them. But I suppose it does come a little bit more to the definition of what a healthy food is because people assume something's good for them or healthier for them and that's really where the problem comes in because it may be just no better than what they assume is not healthy. So I wanted to kind of start by saying, a lot of the time people are eating things that they maybe think are better for them.

Christine Envall:
So I don't know how old our listeners are, but back in the... I think it would be like the late eighties, there was the pure and natural vegetarian cafes. And back then there was an association that vegetarianism was healthy because it didn't have meat, but most of the food in there was very high fat pastries and some vegetables kind of mashed together with all kinds of different, very, very not so desirable substances. And of course, they had their famous frozen yogurt, which everyone had because they thought, oh, it's frozen yogurt, it's healthy. But in fact it was really no different to just a regular soft-serve, except that it had a little bit of yogurt powder.

Christine Envall:
But if you want to break that down, then is the yogurt healthier than the milk powder because it has cultures and probiotics and things like that. So that's the bigger dilemma, I guess, or the bigger confusion is it really depends on what is your definition of healthy? What is your diet? What is your diet structure? And does that fit into that because if it fits into your diet structure, then maybe it is actually healthy. So I have a little, a little definition down here as to what a healthy diet actually is.

Ash Horton:
Okay.

Christine Envall:
To sort of frame it.

Ash Horton:
One thing I want to throw in there is maybe there are healthy foods, but it's at what quantity do you have them so they remain healthy as well. And then maybe there's something we can cover later on as well.

Christine Envall:
Yeah, that's actually one of my notes that I wrote for this it's like quantity versus frequency.

Ash Horton:
Okay.

Christine Envall:
And that is another one of my little concepts that I run by is that there's obviously, you can't beat yourself up over a food and eliminate it totally. Because if you put it in the right context, in the right quantity and the right frequency in your diet, then really nothing's that off limit. And that's kind of where I think people need to get to, rather than having these hard and fast rules of like, that is bad and that is good because again, as my uni lecturer used to say to me, when I would have this argument with him and he'd be like, well, is an apple healthy? And I would say, well, of course. He goes, well, can you live on apples all day? No.

Christine Envall:
So therefore in context, you can't... There is no such thing as the single food. It is a diet. And that's where this definition of healthy diet is a diet that helps to maintain or improve overall health. And I think that's the key thing there. A healthy diet provides the body with essential nutrition, fluid, macronutrient, nutrients, micronutrients, and adequate food energy. So it has to encompass all of that. And that's why it's a very, very difficult to say something's good or bad and be really, really that simple. So in Australia, we have a rating system that's not mandatory, but it's voluntary that food manufacturers can put onto their labels.

Ash Horton:
This is the health rating star.

Christine Envall:
Health star rating. Yeah. Now that is interesting in itself because it compares foods like foods within the same category. So it compares like breakfast cereal with breakfast cereal. You cannot take that five-star rating on a breakfast cereal and compare that against a ready-made meal or a milk product or something because it's two totally different categories. It's not really clear or easily to determine what they actually base it on because it's not simply about the nutritional panel. It's not simply about the fat, protein and carbohydrate that's in there. It's also, if there's vegetable in there, if there's fruit in there, like it's different kind of scoring system. And also it's up to the manufacturer to calculate that. I have a breakfast cereal at home, which has a better star rating, but the nutritionals to me look like why? It doesn't make any sense, compared to something else, which has a lower star rating, which looks like a healthier product, not only from its nutritionals, but also its ingredient list.

Ash Horton:
That's interesting. Isn't it?

Christine Envall:
Exactly. So I'm really skeptical of those.

Ash Horton:
So how many people are just sort of trusting that label and picking the wrong products.

Christine Envall:
Exactly. And I think that is part of the... I'm going to have a little bit of a go at the Australian food industry here is because they really don't... They overestimate sometimes what people understand and then they don't give enough information and their own website wasn't easy to find, how they actually develop that criteria. So you would need to be right into it, being day in, day out, doing those calculations to understand what criteria they've done. Now, we also have like the Heart Tick, which is the same kind of thing, except there's some pretty clear definitions around having to meet certain fat, salt, sugar, fiber levels to be considered heart healthy. But again, that's a paid endorsement. You need to meet it. And then you pay some money and you'll get that endorsement. And again, it's category by category.

Christine Envall:
So what's considered healthy for a margarine is not the same criteria for what's considered healthy for again, a breakfast cereal. So there can be a lot of confusion around that because you can just kind of go for like the quick check, okay. The higher, the more number of stars. Okay. I'm assuming that's going to be better for me, but they do also stress that you cannot take it out of context of the whole diet and it doesn't... They also say that it doesn't imply that you should eat more of this or less of that. It's just kind of saying, okay, if you've got two different products, this one's better. But then because it's not a regulated thing and it is self-regulated by the manufacturers-

Ash Horton:
So is there any comeback on the manufacturers if they just simply lie?

Christine Envall:
No.

Ash Horton:
Nope. So they can put anything they want.

Christine Envall:
Sorry. No, there would be a... It'd be more of a, what's the word for it? Consumer, a triple C type of territory. If you felt that that was out and out deceptive, then yes, there's a comeback against that. You'd have to say, look, that is not correct. But as far as, you would have to go and ask further questions of the company, like why did yours get rated there when this one appears to have less sugar, more fiber, less salt, why is yours ranking higher than that company's product? So what's the other definition?

Ash Horton:
Tell me if the manufacturer has the choice of whether they put it on the product or not, the packaging, why do manufacturers with like one or two stars, put it on their packaging?

Christine Envall:
I think for transparency.

Ash Horton:
Yep.

Christine Envall:
Yeah, because it's in our industry. So the sports supplement industry, it's not something that's carried through because ours are products or supplements whilst they're food. They'd like... For example, a protein powder is very skewed because you are simply buying a protein powder so when you rank it up against like, well, I guess there's not even a category for it, for that type of rating, but it's very skewed in one nutrient and you're getting that. It'd be like putting it on chicken. It's very skewed on that. And you don't see those ratings on chicken. It is more for mixed food products, which have a mixture of protein, fat, carbohydrates, salt, sugar, fiber, what other things are in there. So I think when it comes to some products, I think if everyone's doing it and you're in the supermarket and you don't have a rating, then people question, they sometimes will just walk away from it completely because it's like, what are you trying to hide?

Christine Envall:
So I think that's why people put it on. And then, in confectionary and things like that then because it's fat and sugar. So-

Ash Horton:
It is what it is.

Christine Envall:
Yeah. It is what it is. And people know that. And then they try to say, well, we're being responsible and normally saying, snacking is part of, it's got to be... Snack responsibly is basically the message. And that's exactly what I'm saying, that you don't have to eliminate those things completely, but you have to put it in context of what is a serving size and is it something that you have weekly, monthly? It certainly shouldn't be something that you have daily. So that's, I guess, kind of pre-framing and putting it into overall kind of a context. But now I want to get into my favorite [hit 00:09:00] Foods.

Christine Envall:
So anything that is processed and comes out of the health aisle at the supermarket. Big, broad category there, if you look at majority of those products, I guess the issue that I have is that they are actually promoted as being healthy or being better for you or more nutritious. And a lot of them are really just a whole bunch of sugar. Now the argument of course around whether something's a fruit sugar versus a refined sugar, at the end of the day, there comes a point where what you're putting into your body is concentrated calories, majority coming from sugar. So whilst there might be micronutrients coming in from say, you know, dates, squished up dates compared to just table sugar, it's still very, very, very small amounts. And you're still got to be mindful that you're eating a very densely laid in, it's a little tiny snack. So a couple of hundred calories probably not a big deal but if you're-

Ash Horton:
We're talking about those, they're like little,

Christine Envall:
Little mush balls, all that kind of stuff that is popping up in the supermarket now. And in the serving size of a little, single ball, which has a lot of either peanut butter or dates is generally what most of them are made out of. Then, if you look at the definition if you're trying to meet an energy requirement that you have, and you need to have some carbs and some sugars, then that's not a bad thing, but don't be eating it thinking that you're doing better, like avoiding a piece of bread because you think it's got carbs and calories to go eat something, which is proportionately got a lot more sugar is probably not your best choice. So it's putting it in context of when you're using it.

Christine Envall:
That's kind of like the thing to be mindful of. So again, people kind of gravitate towards those things, but then the issue does become the serving size. So some of those things come in a bag that might have say a hundred or 150 grams or something versus a single serve. And it's very easy to eat the whole thing, which then becomes kind of an issue in that quantity versus... What do you need and how often should you have it? So snack treat kept into that same kind of thing.

Ash Horton:
Would it be fair to say that the least the humans touched a piece of food, the better.

Christine Envall:
Yes.

Ash Horton:
Yep.

Christine Envall:
Yeah, that's the whole idea that the unprocessed food, more natural food, whole food is obviously healthier, just intrinsically because you haven't stripped something out of it. You haven't put it through heat, so you haven't destroyed certain vitamins and minerals. You haven't changed the glycemic index of it because when you break something up mechanically, it changes the glycemic index. So it's easier for your body to digest. So of course all of those things apply. So I think that when you're looking at any particular food, that something just because someone put the label healthy on it and stuck it in that aisle, as far as it being any better than an uncle Toby's muesli bars, probably arguably not.

Ash Horton:
Right.

Christine Envall:
So it's just being mindful. Protein bars fall into that same category where you are better to have a protein shake than to have a protein bar.

Christine Envall:
Number one, because you're generally going to get more protein out of the protein shake because of the serving size. And number two, you're not getting all of the extra binders. So either the sugar alcohols, or even just straight up sugars that have to tie that product together and make it hold together. And generally you're going to get a lot more calories out of like, say, if you want to get 20 grams of protein, the protein bar comes with a whole bunch of extra stuff. So the calorie count is higher for that 20 grams of protein than just a straight up protein shake.

Ash Horton:
While we're on shakes, what about the sort of ready to go shakes versus the powder that you mix yourself?

Christine Envall:
Yeah. You have to be careful. And I've got a note down here and that goes for the same with just protein patterns in general, you need to look at not only your protein count, but look at everything else in it. So some of those ready made protein drinks are made with a whole bunch of sugar. So the carb count might be up around 30 or 40 grams of carbs for your 20 or 30 grams of protein versus something like the international protein RTG, which the only sugar in that is coming naturally from the milk. So it's about eight grams or something. So it's as kind of as low as what you can get, given that it has got dairy product in there, for your 30 grams of protein. Whereas some of the, again, I'm not a hundred percent certain now, but I know the old Ozzie bodies ones that first came out had 30 or so grams of sugar because it was actual sugar was added to it.

Christine Envall:
So you need to look at your nutritional panel. You need to look at your ingredient list and see what's going into a product obviously, versus if you get superior way, you're going to have a kind of a similar type of carb count because you're out using a whey protein versus a WPI, which is going to have a much lower carb count. So again, you've got to look at all of those things, but having said that, when it comes to protein powder, depending on what brand you're buying, a lot of the proteins on the market, the protein count slipped down, although 70 grams per hundred. So therefore there's a lot more carbs and a lot more fat, sometimes fiber. So you got to, again, you can't just go protein powder and put it all into one big grouping because you've got to really look at nutritional panel and look at where the proteins actually coming from and put everything in context.

Christine Envall:
So that's just a watch out. You don't just assume that because it's a protein powder, it's going to be pure protein.

Ash Horton:
Okay.

Christine Envall:
Yeah. So I already had that one down there, but we skipped ahead to that. But yeah, that particular aisle, not only that, you're also paying a lot of money for the pleasure of having someone processed it. Whereas if you've got like a bag of nuts or if you wanted to eat dried fruit and nuts, you're probably going to eat a lot less to get that versus that little ball, which kind of, doesn't probably fill you up as much as what you might want it to, or having an actual piece of fruit or something that's filling you up a lot more. Now, next on my list is and you know this is one of my pet peeves or not pet peeves, but my watch outs is most flavored yogurts.

Christine Envall:
So again, yogurt naturally has a certain amount of sugar coming in from the lactose, from the milk, but then to make it flavored. And even if it's fruit flavored, it's normally like a fruit syrup or a fruit concentrate or something that is again, very, very high in sugar mixed throughout the yogurt. So the count becomes quite high unless you're looking at one of the ones which are out lately like Greek style yogurts, where they're actually not adding that, they're sweetening it with Stevia or something. They're not necessarily adding actual sugar to it. So again, you just got to read the label and there's quite a marked difference in the calorie count and the sugar count for just a regular kind of Shabani yogurt versus what I like the YoPROs, which have no added sugar. But again, people find it really hard sometimes the taste of those products and it's a struggle for them to kind of make that cut.

Christine Envall:
But if you're going to have a yogurt, that's got full sugar in that, you potentially could just have a tub of ice cream, like a little single serve of ice cream and enjoy that a lot more than eat the yogurt and think that you're being healthier for that. And especially some of those ones, which are the full fat versions as well, which tastes really, really good, have an amazing texture, but it's high fat, high sugar. So at the end of the day, is it more healthful because it has a little bit of probiotic. Okay. Yes. Potentially because ice cream is not going to have that, but it's where your diet sits and what you put importance on as to whether you believe that you're going to be better off from having that versus having the other one.

Christine Envall:
If you're purely looking at it from that point of view, majority of breakfast cereals, especially muesli Is always a favorite one. You really have to look at your nutritional panel again, because there's normally a lot of sugar associated with it. Even some of the ones, which again, are promoted as being more healthier or gluten free is a favorite because people think gluten-free equals health and gluten-free just means it doesn't have gluten in it, which is the protein from wheat or oat. So you're not really, unless you have an issue with gluten, then you're not going to have a health benefit from having something which doesn't have gluten, because it's going to generally have some other kind of refined carbohydrate that's replacing that. And the thing with the muesli and especially toasted muesli is it's usually sprayed in an oil coating and then toasted-

Ash Horton:
And sugared then toasted. Yeah. So good.

Christine Envall:
And syrup made out of fat and sugar sprayed on it, let it absorb in and it does taste really, really good. But if you think you're being healthier for having that, you're probably better off with your good old Weet-Bix, which again, those don't taste very good, but they don't have a lot of other stuff with them. So again, I love breakfast cereal. So I'm the first person to say that I eat a lot of breakfast cereal, but I'm always mindful that I'm buying a product, which has less than about 15 grams per hundred grams. Putting it in context, if I'm having about 40 to 60 grams a day, then my sugar count is quite low coming in from that. So again, you have to put it in the context of how much you're having and maybe for some people then 25% sugar might be fine. If you're having 40 grams, you're still only getting like 10 grams of sugar.

Christine Envall:
So, that in the context of your day, if you're aiming for 50 grams of sugar, then that's not a bad thing. So that's something you eat. Sometimes you stay away from stuff that you don't need to. But if you're just overall trying to reduce, say your sugar count, get your fiber up, get your whole grains up. Then breakfast cereals can be a good option, but if you choose the wrong product, it can be a very, very bad option. And a lot of those mueslis and things that can have a quite a high fat content. But if you're following a high-fat diet, then it's not problem.

Ash Horton:
So a good alternative to that is just make your own muesli.

Christine Envall:
But if you do it at home and you make your own muesli and you make a syrup out of sugar and fat-

Ash Horton:
Without the syrup and without the sugar. Yeah.

Christine Envall:
Then it's just boring muesli. You can just buy the same thing at the supermarket, untoasted muesli.

Ash Horton:
Okay.

Christine Envall:
Yeah. Which leads me to one of my other things about healthy food, things that people think are healthy than not what you make at home.

Ash Horton:
Right.

Christine Envall:
I love it. People always say, oh, but it was homemade or it was home cooked food. There is an automatic assumption that because we make something at home that it is healthier than something that is not made at home. Now that is totally, totally wrong to think that because it depends again what you use in it and again, how many people make peanut butter balls, protein balls, all that kind of stuff. And what are they putting into them? It's the same as what's going into the ones that the shops, squished up dates, sugars, a bit of protein powder, a lot of peanut butter or something, then it's really no better.

Christine Envall:
Maybe it doesn't have preservatives in it or something, but it's at the end of the day, you end up with the same thing and cooking and things like that, if you're doing something and you're maybe putting a little bit of oil spray in the pan and doing it, then you know what's going into it. But then someone else might be putting a whole bunch of oil or cooking it in a whole bunch of oil. So yeah, to automatically assume because you've made it at home, that it's better is not necessarily correct.

Ash Horton:
Okay.

Christine Envall:
You know what's going into it and you can control it more than what's outside of it. But if you're just going to make muesli, but not add all the stuff to make it toasted then you can also just buy an untoasted muesli.

Ash Horton:
So what about foods that are more natural, like avocados, avocado on toast?

Christine Envall:
Ash, as I said, it's going to be the context of your diet. A whole avocado on toast might be for most people. Yeah. That's probably a little bit too much. But again, in coming back to the diet, if you're following a diet where you're eating 50 or 60% fat, 20 or 30% protein, and you're following like a keto type diet, then that's possibly not a problem because the definition is that it's got adequate food energy, and maybe you're only eating a very small amount of food every day. And it's coming from these particular ingredients. That's why it's kind of hard to really point at a food and say, that's really, really wrong. We can compare foods and say, okay, avocado versus nuts kind of got fat, different nutrients. Maybe if you're comparing those two, they're both very, very good options.

Christine Envall:
Because they've got a lot of other stuff with them. They've got other vitamins and nutrients, not so much as minerals. Minerals in the nuts, a lot of zinc and magnesium from that point of view. Yes they are. You're always going to be adding to your health by having those things. But again, if you're following your diet and your struggling with keeping within your calorie range, then maybe reduce the amount of avocado even though it's great. It is still a high source of fat and high energy.

Ash Horton:
You always see on Facebook those ads that say foods to avoid, and there's a little picture of a banana and it's illustrated. I see them all the time. What's-

Christine Envall:
What's with that?

Ash Horton:
What's wrong with bananas?

Christine Envall:
Bananas have a bad reputation because of course they are a high sugar fruit. So if you look at fruits, fruit being made basically carbohydrate and water, vitamins and minerals. So something like a strawberry has got a very, very high water content. So even if it has the same type of sugars, say as banana, a banana is way more concentrated and I'm actually forgetting the exact percentage, but I think it's like in the sixties, the percentage of solids, what make up a banana. So therefore a hundred grams of banana versus a hundred grams of strawberries has a lot more sugars and carbohydrate, has a lot of other really good things with it. I actually eat a banana every day, very high in potassium. And it's one of the good mood foods. But it's that context of if you're having, you know how you can get a banana, that's like quite small and you get bananas, which are really, really huge. So it's going to depend on what, again, serving size. And I knew that was going to [inaudible 00:22:27].

Ash Horton:
I tried not to. I tried not to.

Christine Envall:
But you get what I'm saying. It comes back to serving size. For someone, half a banana or a little lady finger might be good. Someone else needs a big one.

Ash Horton:
I didn't say anything.

Christine Envall:
No, but your face said it all, but that's why it gets a bad reputation because people look at the carb content and this is what I'm saying. In the context of a day, if it's eaten pre-workout post-workout or it's making up your calorie count, making up part of what you need in your day, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it because of all the other good stuff that comes with it. It is not the same as having the equivalent amount of sugar coming from a couple of tablespoons of sugar or from a can of Coke or something. So that's where you can start talking about better choices, healthier choices, because it's what else isn't with something. So if you're looking at food as purely as for my protein, for my carbohydrates, for my fat, what else do I get with it?

Christine Envall:
Do I get other nutrients with it? Do I get fiber with it? Do I get more antioxidants with it? Do I get more vitamins? Do I get more minerals? It's looking at the... It's almost like they need a rating of for every calorie, does it have a higher amount of other nutrients. And if so, what? And that everything that you eat, you think about, they talk about empty calories and refined sugar, and really they add in now refined carbohydrates as being empty calories because they've had most of the good minerals and vitamins stripped out when they took all of the brand and everything off of the carbs. Yep. So those things for the calories that you're getting, you're purely getting it for carbohydrate, but that isn't always a bad thing because then you have, in a sports context, you might want that.

Christine Envall:
Because you don't necessarily always want the fiber when you're playing sport. You don't need the extra water in your intestine. You need to eliminate all of that and be able to perform. And you don't want stomach cramps and upset stomach and all that. So you just need to feed your body purely with carbohydrate and that type of product is great. Would I give it to someone who's sedentary and not needing those kinds of carbs? No. So again, you've got to put that in context and that's when you're... And again, that's why sports supplements are supplements because you're building the perfect framework of your diet versus just naturally kind of going out and just eating whatever crosses in front of you. So, which brings me to plant milks.

Ash Horton:
Okay.

Christine Envall:
So plant milks is one of those things where, when it was only soy milk, as the alternative to plant milk and was really, really well-regulated and you had to have the same amount of protein in the plant milk as what was in dairy milk.

Christine Envall:
And then you were allowed to fortify it with the same minerals, sorry, vitamins that are in and minerals because calcium of course, had to be in there to make it equivalent to cows milk. So they said, if you can't feed your child milk, dairy milk, here's the alternative and nutritionally, they're not missing out. That's probably like a perfect example of creating an equivalent food nutritionally. But now with all the oat milks, almond milks and all those kinds of things, it is literally like the milk or the fluid that is coming off once you've soaked that almond, for example. So in its natural native form, it has no protein, even though almonds have protein, once they derive that the milk out of it, there's really no protein. A lot of them are sweetened because they don't taste that great without it.

Christine Envall:
So there's sugar added back in and sometimes there's even some stabilizers and gums to make them feel like you're having something substantial. So there are fortified ones now, and they're putting a lot of pea protein in to bulk those up, to make them more equivalent and make them more nutritionally desirable. But essentially if you're thinking that it's actually a healthier option, it's kind of not because you'll either get it. You might as well just... You're kind of drinking water, just it's like having flavored water or something or your having something which has got sugar added to it. So you're really just like having flavored milk, but without the protein. So it's just a bit of a watch out for those-

Ash Horton:
Is one better than the other. So is almond better than the oat, for example?

Christine Envall:
Depends what your allergy is and what your taste preference is. So they have very different nutritional profiles, obviously. So it would really come down to, do you have an allergy for gluten? Do you have an allergy for nut? What's your preference? Oat milks, I haven't looked too closely at, but I know that they weren't running at a very high protein level, either. Coconut, anything coconut tends to be really high in fat, that I do know. It tastes great, but there's a generally quite a high fat content. But if you're following keto and you're wanting that fat, then that's actually a great thing. So as I say, it's really hard to put it into what's good for one is not necessarily good for the other. So it depends what your diet actually is and what you're looking for. So you need to know what macro structure you're looking for, what protein you're trying to hit, what carbs, what fats you're trying to hit and then put your food into that to make it, make that up.

Ash Horton:
For people that are taking dairy supplements regularly though, the proteins, is just adding milk on it. Just more dairy and not necessarily a good thing.

Christine Envall:
It's not a bad thing. It's not a good thing. It depends again, if you have a dairy intolerance or allergy or something like that, then potentially. If you're trying to, as you get older, then maybe you want to be reducing your dairy because of the potential cancer risk that comes from the dairy protein, helping with the production of IGF-1. But if that's not an issue for you, then, no, that's fine. A lot of people are actually putting water, hence why putting almond milk or that it's like putting flavored water. If it's unsweetened, it's like putting water on, but just got better flavor than water. So it's not really comparable to milk as much as it's comparable to water.

Ash Horton:
So it shouldn't really be called milk.

Christine Envall:
No.

Ash Horton:
No.

Christine Envall:
No. And again, the food industry used to fight pretty hard against that. They wouldn't let it be called milk unless it had that exact criteria of milk. So it's really like, that's why I call it like a plant beverage or a plant-based beverage because it's definitely not equivalent to milk. So it is a better tasting option than water if you're using an unsweetened one.

Ash Horton:
So with dairy milks, you know how you can get the cheap dairy milk and they're very, very expensive, dairy milk? Quality difference?

Christine Envall:
No.

Ash Horton:
Marketing.

Christine Envall:
Marketing. Yeah. Well, that's what you're paying for. Basically if you buy the, the home brand, whatever, if you look at the nutritionals, it should be the same. There may be a couple of percent different point percentages difference in protein. If you look very, very closely, it might be, say 3.2 versus 3.4 for a more premium one, there could be some minor differences like that, but essentially it's like how much advertising and marketing are you paying for on top of that? Because it [inaudible 00:29:09] white milk process-

Ash Horton:
Isn't there like an A2 milk or something like that, that's better quality.

Christine Envall:
That's different again, that comes down to the... What is it? Is it the gene or is it... There's the part component of the milk, which people believe is the reason why a lot of people have allergies or creates a lot of allergies. So therefore people don't want to have that particular protein. So it's the protein in the milk coming down to kind of like, not just the overall protein, but then obviously that's made up of different types of protein in the milk and there's this particular A2 which is what they think gives kids a lot of allergies and that. So whether or not that's proven, I don't know whether anyone has any experience with that. It's not something that was around in my day and very few kids actually had dairy intolerance. So it's something of the modern era. And I think it's something which was kind of isolated and then made us believe that there's a big problem around it so people feel a little bit guilty for giving that to their kid, because what if I am creating a problem was kind of where that all comes from.

Ash Horton:
It's great how I can throw these random questions at you and you've got an answer for them, just to throw you on the spot.

Christine Envall:
Well, I did used to work in dairy and I worked in dairy when A2 hit. It is going back into the memory recess as a little bit there to try to remember it, but-

Ash Horton:
Got lucky on that one.

Christine Envall:
I did. Vegetables snacks and chips, just looking at those kinds of products. Normally, if you're going to eat the vegetable, it just is the vegetable. As soon as you turn it into a snack or a chip, there's normally got to be some kind of oil, salt, sugar.

Ash Horton:
Dip in it in something.

Christine Envall:
No, I'm not talking about that, Ash. That's as well. That's as well as. You probably haven't discovered it, but there's like in the, again, the healthier food aisle, instead of being potato chips, there's all kinds of chips made out of it. Whether it be chickpea, whether it be actual snap peas, whether it be... I've even got like, I don't know, some kind of mushroom thing and broccoli and all these kinds of things, which have been turned into snack food, crispy snack food, but there's normally to give them a bit more flavor.

Christine Envall:
There is some type of salt being added onto it. There's got to be some oil to kind of cook them in. So again, you've got to read the nutritional panel because there are some good ones out there.

Ash Horton:
Do you know some of the good ones?

Christine Envall:
I can't remember the brands, but there are some which do have, like if you're looking at a snack food and again, looking at a balanced nutritional profile, generally a snack food is very low in protein, very high in carbohydrate and somewhere in that 30 to 35% fat is generally what you're looking at for, at a chip, for a snacking chip, Dorito, all those kinds of things. So with these products, if you're getting something which has somewhere between maybe like 12 and 18% protein, you're already miles ahead in that count. And if the fats down around about 20 to 25% is a massive, massive improvement on a potato chip, but it's still not necessarily the greatest food.

Christine Envall:
And again, you've got to kind of watch the salt content because that's the other major thing, which obviously has health implications around blood pressure to say, but on the flip side, if you eliminate salt totally, then that's also a problem. So in the context of your diet, if you're eating a lot of really salty foods, that's a problem. If you don't eat a lot of salty food and you're having this one thing, which has salt in it, it's not a problem. That's why I kind of don't want to pick on too many things like that. But don't think that again, they're normally very concentrated in calories because it's like dried and light versus having to chew your way through a piece of broccoli. So yeah, that's where they kind of fit. Same deal goes for any of those like grainy, sounding crackers, like, oh, it's got like whole wheat and this and that.

Christine Envall:
Generally the percentage that's made up of it, that's actually whole wheat is quite small. There might be some extra fiber over a regular cracker. So again, if you're replacing a cracker with a better cracker, it is healthier, but if you're eating it because you think it's a healthy food, then again, it's kind of just be mindful. But at the end of the day, you need to eat something.

Ash Horton:
And you got to enjoy it.

Christine Envall:
Exactly. Otherwise, what are we here for? So-

Ash Horton:
A hundred percent.

Christine Envall:
So as I say, don't get too hung up on specifics. Look at your overall diet. There could be room for any of these things at the right frequency and at the right quantity.

Ash Horton:
Look, that was fascinating stuff. Thank you very much, Christine, you certainly taught me a lot and I'm sure we could talk for another half an hour quite easily on it. So I'm sure we'll cover more of this as time goes on.

Christine Envall:
If anyone has any questions or has a food that they want to pop in there and say, Hey, where does this fit then certainly come jump into the Muscle Talk Facebook group and ask the question.

Ash Horton:
Awesome.

Ash Horton:
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