The Truth About Herbs: Wildcrafting, Kratom & Ephedra

What do Valium, Ephedra, and Kratom all have in common?
They all come from plants — and today, fourth-generation wildcrafter Ed Fletcher joins Ultra Life Today to reveal the hidden world behind the herbs you see on store shelves.

🌿 Discover why wildcrafted herbs can be more potent than cultivated ones, how stress in nature changes their chemistry, and what really happened when Ephedra was banned overnight.

We’ll also explore:

• The real numbers behind herbal safety and recalls
• How Valerian became Valium
• Why Kratom is both controversial and promising
• How to tell if your supplements are genuinely natural or just labeled that way

Whether you’re an herbal enthusiast, health professional, or just herbal-curious, this is one episode you’ll want to save.

Listen to the full episode here or watch it on YouTube!: https://youtu.be/2-9F48fWXZM

Visit UltraBotanica.com to learn more about us and how you can get a free sample of our products.

Transcript

0:00:02 - (Ed Fletcher): In other words, he accepts a lot of recalls. I believe his company does that for pharmaceutical drugs and also for dietary supplements. And that shines a light on the low number of recalls percentage wise compared to drugs caus of side effects. And I just think if people would just look at these safety issues, the safety numbers on herbals are really such a low amount that I believe more and more the general public will be comfortable being able to take these in the right amounts and in the right dosage, of course.

0:00:43 - (Josh Bellieu): Welcome to ultral life today. You are so going to enjoy our next guest. We consider him a friend. His name is Ed Fletcher. Edward Fletcher. This man is a fourth generation wildraftter in the herbal business and really is renowned worldwide, known by so many people. Ed, we're so delighted to have you on the broadcast. By the way, I'm Josh Bell, you.

0:01:09 - (Adam Payne): And I'm the little guy over here. I'm Adam Payne, a little guy.

0:01:13 - (Josh Bellieu): So Ed, just remind me really quick, tell our viewers really quick. Gardens of the Blue ridge founded in 1892. Fourth generation your family. Give us a snapshot of how you were raised in this business.

0:01:30 - (Ed Fletcher): Sure. Thank you Josh and Adam, good to see you guys again and glad to be here. So yeah, how I was raised in it. I was born in it first of all, as my great grandfather founded the nursery and his passed down through the generations. And I was just, I was raised learning how to propagate and grow these plants for our nursery. We were selling them in the ornamental industry and we would run low on the stocks of things that we needed to propagate. We would go out into the woods and wildcraft to get planting stock to bring back into our nursery where we could propagate them and sell them. So I learned that expect of it early on. And then we were selling in the ornamental industry. And then in the mid-90s, a company came to me and said hey, we need someone who knows how to propagate, cultiv, grow and cultivate these botanicals for the medicinal uses. Because there's being a lot more pressure put on them from the wild. So that's when I was hired into this medicinal industry. And I had to flip my brain thought a little bit. Instead of nice color and height and beauty to yields, constituent levels and when to harvest. So it's been a transition, but the basics are the same. You find a species and either wildcraftd the proper time and replant it or you cultivate it. Bringing domestication to supply what your customers are looking for. So that's what I'VE been doing all my life actually. It's been fun.

0:02:54 - (Josh Bellieu): So Adam, I had spoken briefly with Ed and something crossed my mind today that might be fun for us to go down this path up, pun intended. Mood altering herbs Ed, you so many people want to pick up something that's actually going to elevate their mood, going to change their mindset, maybe enhance cognitive function. What are some of the more common mood altering herbs that people can find at the health food stores and online?

0:03:24 - (Josh Bellieu): But then also I want to ask you as well, should people take those for long periods of time or should they really only be used therapeutically for shorter periods of time? But.

0:03:35 - (Ed Fletcher): Well, you'll have to ask someone else more on the therapeutical use to ad that. But I can tell you the ones that I sell to companies who utilize those. I don't sell mushrooms. The psychedelic mushrooms are getting a lot of publicity lately. And I know that's a different real. Yeah but I mean things like valerian, I mean that Valium was derived.

0:03:54 - (Josh Bellieu): Right.

0:03:54 - (Ed Fletcher): Sold a lot of valerian through the years. Customers are looking at valerianic acid's. That's one thing that's a little bit people may not understand that if you're buying a powdered product, it's more of the how many milligrams per capsule. It's not always standardized to a constituent level. But if it's an extract customer they're looking for a minimum level of very laantic acid. There's a lot of others. I mean California poppy they use in blends with you know, chamomile to relaxing everything.

0:04:23 - (Ed Fletcher): Passionloer a lot ofing seems like there's a lot more demand lately for passso Florianarnada.

0:04:30 - (Adam Payne): That's the passion flower. That's actually a really interesting botanical ingredient. We've used it in some of our products just for its ability to mitigate the body's pain sensation. Right?

0:04:44 - (Ed Fletcher): Yes.

0:04:46 - (Adam Payne): It doesn't necessarily. It's not used directly to mitigate pain, but it can indirectly help in how the body's perceiving pain, it seems.

0:04:56 - (Ed Fletcher): Yes.

0:04:57 - (Josh Bellieu): Now are there any herbs that also, you know, we all remember the big ephedra or ephedra, however you say it craze. And then we remember when that basically got taken off the market. Are there other herbs that have thermogenic properties like that that can actually help individuals with their metabolism, losing weight, energy, things like that?

0:05:21 - (Ed Fletcher): Oh yes. I'm trying to think of the one, the one that made sense to me because of its traditional uses in Africa. Maybe you can remember it, Adam. It's the one that when the travelers would go from one tribe to the next to deliver the message, they'd be running, you know, from miles on the end, half a day at to time.

0:05:42 - (Josh Bellieu): It's not go to cola, is it?

0:05:45 - (Ed Fletcher): No, it's not cola.

0:05:46 - (Josh Bellieu): No. Okay.

0:05:47 - (Adam Payne): No, begin. I think it begins with a D. It's like it's an herb that they would chew Devil'cl. No, no, no, no. Devs.

0:05:56 - (Ed Fletcher): Sorry, but I'll think of it in a minute. But, you know, to me, the guys were running and they would get tired and thirsty and they would stop and have some mom and give them energy to make their trip. There was no scientific backing or anything. It just. Hey, they knew this herb worked.

0:06:11 - (Josh Bellieu): And among Asian populations, it's been very common for people to chew ginseng, right?

0:06:17 - (Adam Payne): Ginseng, yes.

0:06:19 - (Josh Bellieu): For the very same. You know, it's very adaptogenic, but it also seems. I mean, I guess the Russians have done so much work in that area, and they've used it with their high performance athletes for decades and decades.

0:06:33 - (Adam Payne): It's just a staple that in the luthherra, which is. Right. That was like the Russian secret weapon. At one of the Olympics they were using that herbal concoction. There are. So, I mean, what we forget, Josh and Ed, is that most of the pharmaceuticals that we use as pharmaceutical drugs really have their beginnings in herbal medication.

0:06:57 - (Josh Bellieu): I had no idea that valium came from valerian until just now. That's crazy.

0:07:02 - (Adam Payne): Is it?

0:07:05 - (Ed Fletcher): But, yeah, you're right, Adam. Over 70% of the drugs started out as a botanical product. They just took it into the lab. They were able to sensthitize it and produce it in fing it. Yeah.

0:07:19 - (Adam Payne): And some are still used with the herbal roots, like digitalis. Is that still harvested for medicinal purposes?

0:07:26 - (Ed Fletcher): It's a small degree, but most of that is into the pharmaceutical realm now. Yes.

0:07:31 - (Adam Payne): That's very interesting.

0:07:32 - (Ed Fletcher): Yeah. Going back to ephedra, that's an interesting story. Josh, you mentioned. I don't know if you all know the background of that, but I was on the board of trustees for the American Herbal association when that happened. And you're right. Do you know ephedra was the one product that still holds the record for being the fastest withdrawn from the market of any herb. And a little bit of the background was there was a minor league pitcher who was hoping to be drafted into the major leagues, and he was in spring training in Florida, and he had been overweight and he'd been taking ephedra and Doing some other things for his diet. But he was taking ephedra and his teammates in there said that he had said, oh, it's helping me a lot, so I'm going to take more and more. So he was taking more than he should have been taking. Unfortunately, one day when he went to the mound, he knew that the scouts were in the audience and he was really trying to make a good impression. It was a really above 90 degree day.

0:08:37 - (Ed Fletcher): He was dehydrated, they said been taking too much ephedra and he collapsed on the mound and died. That was unfortunate. But why it came off the market so fast. He was a, I don't remember the exact relation. He was a distant relative, maybe a cousin or a second cousin to one of our senators. So that, so that ephedra came off the market like that. So ephedra, I mean it's still used around the world. It's actually a really good product.

0:09:05 - (Ed Fletcher): It's just again, the dosage, the, the dosage is what's important.

0:09:08 - (Josh Bellieu): So. And I remember too Ed, that some of the products that had come out that were such good thermogenic products for helping people lose weight, they were combining certain herbs with ephedra that they should not have been. And so it was creating problems for the lung and even potentially the heart. And they should have never combined some of those herbs together. Which guess is another big story.

0:09:30 - (Adam Payne): I mean In America here, one is good, one is great, 10 is better.

0:09:34 - (Josh Bellieu): Yeah, you're right, you're right. More is better. More is better.

0:09:40 - (Ed Fletcher): Another one that's in the news for pain or pain deferring effects is a kratom which has been usedh.

0:09:49 - (Adam Payne): Yeah, kratom. Is it kratom or is it Kratom IY here called Kratom Potat? Potat. A lot of people say, you know what, you know what's really interesting about kratom?

0:10:00 - (Josh Bellieu): What is the history on that?

0:10:02 - (Adam Payne): Well, it's Thailand, the Indonesia area. But what is kind of what's emerged in the folk culture is that for people that are trying to withdraw off of opiates, they'been A lot of people I've heard have been using kratom successfully heard to mitigate their cravings for the.

0:10:23 - (Josh Bellieu): Opiatesactly for the exact same thing. Wow.

0:10:26 - (Ed Fletcher): I have a personal friend who was a masseuse therapist and she's small and she bends over so much. Her back gave her a hard time. Well, then she went to the doctor, he prescribed pharmaceuticals and she said she didn't like what it did. Her head she just didn't feel comfortable, but made her loopy. She started taking crratam and she knew just how much to take the right dose. She said it alleviated the pain so she could work, but it didn't make her head loopy. And she's had no problem being hooked or anything. She really swears by it.

0:10:59 - (Adam Payne): Yeah, there's actually a really strong lobby that's actively trying to protect or keeping protecting Kratom in the public space. And I think for a good reason. It doesn't seem to be doing harm to the community and it does seem to be filling a need, an unmet need in the of the folk space of people looking for these non tradditional interventions.

0:11:23 - (Josh Bellieu): Ed, you were mentioning powders with milligram amounts and then standardized extracts. And I know that there's the stem, there's the leaf, there's the aerial portion of the plant. Now, how does somebody. Are there some good reference books out there that people can get to know how to use herbs? Because I understand people that really know their stuff, they will only want to use one portion of that herb and then they may prescribe to someone else. They may recommend to use the entire herb or then they may recommend a standardized extract as is there any good information that people could find? Because I know for me and a lot of people I run into, the more things are processed, the less we seem to like them. We love finding things like your family generational wildcraafting of herbs. So where's the place people can go to find out good information?

0:12:15 - (Adam Payne): Wow, that's a loaded question.

0:12:20 - (Josh Bellieu): I mean, I have a couple of really cool older books on herbs that were written by guys from around the world, you know, that like you, it had been their family forever.

0:12:30 - (Adam Payne): Are you asking where can people find.

0:12:32 - (Josh Bellieu): The good information to know what use? Right, yeah. You know, a reference volume. Well, a field guide.

0:12:38 - (Adam Payne): So you could go, you know, enter into a school of naturopathy. That would be a good start, which.

0:12:45 - (Josh Bellieu): The average person will never do. So anyway.

0:12:48 - (Ed Fletcher): Yeah, you're right. I mean there are a lot of good books out there in my library. I've probably got four shelves of books that you're just referring to Josh.

0:12:57 - (Adam Payne): Oh, wow. Really?

0:12:58 - (Ed Fletcher): Yeah, and that's, that's really hard. It'd be hard for me to point to one. I mean, some of them, you know, look at the safety, some of them look at how you use them. And you were talking about what part of the plant. I was grinning because I may sell one plant, one botanical species to three different customers. And they may buy it three different ways. One's going to want the herb or one's going to want only the flower.

0:13:22 - (Ed Fletcher): One's going to want only the root, one's going to want the whole plant. So it really depends on each company may want to differentiate what their product is. And so they've done research based on that form or that part of the plant and when it's harvested, the constituent level, the marker compounds. So there is a lot of, you know, I would always try to go back if at all possible to some of the homeopathic or as you said, some of the older books. Because to me back in then it was sort of like, like I was tell you the African who was running through the wild and he may, you know, eat five different plants and if that one works, that's the one he's gonna eat the next time, right? All with somebody documented. To me, those without going through a double blind placebo study, if they've made it through several generations and they still work generation after generation, that's the book I would buy.

0:14:17 - (Josh Bellieu): You are listening to Ed Fletcher. This is Ultra Life Today. I'm Josh Bellu.

0:14:22 - (Adam Payne): I'm Adam Payne and we'll be right back after this short break. Our mission is to take nature's most beloved botanicals and enhance them with our liquid protein scaffold technology. This helps it reach your cells faster and better with exponentially enhanced bioavailability. You'll feel better every day. Ultra Botanica the feel Good curcumin.

0:14:57 - (Josh Bellieu): Welcome back to Ultral Life Today. I am Josh Bell.

0:15:00 - (Adam Payne): You, I'm Adam Payne and we've been enjoying the company of our one of our favorite people, Ed Fletcher. But a botanist of somebody that's learned on the seat of his pants and in the trenches of wildcraftting and what was the other term? It's a wild harvesting or wildraftting and cultivating. Cultivate, foraging, foraging, wildcraafting and then cultivation. One of the topics that's been coming up recently, Josh, in some of the botanical conferences like Supply side West has been what's the difference between a wild crftted product and a cultivated product?

0:15:39 - (Adam Payne): So Ed, how does the industry or how do we differentiate here what those are and why is this important to the consumer?

0:15:49 - (Ed Fletcher): Well, just to differentiate, a wildraafd botanical is something that is harvested out in its native environment. Someone goes out and collects it in its native environment in situ. That's also called foragg. And then any type of cultivation you can also cultivate in the woods. Not Just in a field. People think of cultivation out in the woods, but there's a really big movement for forest farming recently, and I've been a part of that, which is really makes sense to me because a lot of people would try to take a woodland botanical like goldense seal and put it in a field setting and put the shade up and they think, oh, we've got it. But that's not true.

0:16:30 - (Ed Fletcher): The wood, the microbes and all the biological activity in a woodland soil is so complex and much different than a field soil. So. But anyway, bringing something into domestication and cultivating is not an easy task to be successful at it. But that's part of what I do and I enjoy.

0:16:50 - (Adam Payne): I mean, is the resulting herbal product. Can it be that different? I mean, it's just, it's growing and it's soil. But is it different? I mean, how different can it be?

0:17:02 - (Josh Bellieu): It is.

0:17:03 - (Ed Fletcher): I've got many stories that come to mind, but it sure can, Adam. I mean, first of all, the first story I can share with you is Echinacea and Gustopolia. So Echinaceaustifolia, when you harvest it from a wild, which is up in the Midwest, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, you know, it's a kind of harsh environment in the wintertime when you harvest it from the wild. The echinecaide levels, which a lot of my customers are looking for, is above 1%, 1.2%, it's higher.

0:17:33 - (Ed Fletcher): If you cultivate echinacea and gstopolia, your echinacco side are less than half of that. Most of the time it's unacceptable. But in the Traverse side, customers are looking for the alchemides. The alchemides are higher in the cultivated material than they are in the wildcraafd material. So interest complet completely change the constituents. And there's a lot of different things that affect that. But my general opinion is that some of the stress values that we put that are put on plants by nature, Mother Nature, the way it treats them, as opposed to makes sen.

0:18:06 - (Ed Fletcher): We pamper them, we water them, we fertilize them, we irrigate them, we keep the weeds out, we make it too easy on them so they don't stress and produce some of these constituents.

0:18:16 - (Adam Payne): O yeah. So mean. We're not going to expect a marine to be born in a school of poetry, right? And so. And I guess we're not expecting a poet to be born in a marine boot camp, though. I guess it could be possible.

0:18:31 - (Josh Bellieu): Yeah. I was reading a Story Ed, of one of your friends that you've hung out with over the years and lectured with. I can't remember his name, but it was so fascinating because it ties right into what you were saying about the whole natural environment that herbs are found in. Because this man was said he was going along with this older guy back when he was young. The guy only had like a third grade education, yet he knew all the Latin names, you know, the binomial names of all the herbs.

0:18:58 - (Josh Bellieu): And he said the guy kept looking up at. At the foliage, at the canopy of the forest. And then when he saw just the right amount of light coming through and certain types of trees and stuff, he goes, here's where we're going to actually find Bloodroot, you know, And I thought, that is just insane. To me, it's so. But it really does. It does speak to this interesting idea that nature does different things with plants in different areas of the world. Even the same plant, like gening know so different.

0:19:30 - (Josh Bellieu): American Geneng, Siberianian, Geneng gening from China. It's all just so different.

0:19:35 - (Adam Payne): I mean, think about the truffle story, right? How truffles grow or don't grow and how you need truffle pigs to find these things that are. And it's such an amazing biome that these things are growing in. And I don't think anybody has ever been able to cultivate a truffle because of just the nature of that. And it's not a plant, it's a fungus, right? Which is completely different. But nonetheless, I mean, there's such stark differences between wildcraft and cultivated.

0:20:09 - (Adam Payne): Boy, I never really appreciated, Ed, that those differences until you really brought out the difference between wild and all of the stresses that would be on that plant in the wild versus a cultivated environment where everything is kind of babied and provided for. The plant very different.

0:20:27 - (Josh Bellieu): So, Ed, do you think, because recently you've been doing these lectures at, like, supply side and Expo, do you think there really is a revival right now in the movement? Because it's been so scary to me to see so many of these herbs disappearing from different areas of the country through mining and other things like that. Is there really kind of a grassroots movement where people are really trying to get back to nature and do it, as I say, God's way?

0:21:00 - (Ed Fletcher): I think so. And it excites me because I can tell you, in the last five, five to six years, I guess I'd say I've had more customers. You know, they'll ask you on the phone, is it wildcraft that or cultivator where to come from. But in the last five or six years I've had more of my customers want to come visit and see where the plants come from and tell the story. They want to see how we grow them, see how we wildcraft them, and they want to share that story with their customers. And I think that's coming.

0:21:28 - (Ed Fletcher): Well, I know it's been coming from the consumer level. The consumer is a more educated consumer these days and they want to know where their plants come from, they want to know they're safe, how they're sustainably produced and grown or sustainably harvested. And you know, that's what's a big movement in the organic movement, the fair trade movement. All of these new movements are yes, they consumer pushed or else it wouldn't be supported or else they wouldn't be standing. But I do believe that's a new movement and it thrills me. I'm really excited to see people who want to know more about what they put in their mouth, in their body.

0:22:04 - (Adam Payne): Are you seeing emerge new people that are interested in how they can participate in the wild crafting movement and learning how, how to find these different herbs out in the wild?

0:22:15 - (Ed Fletcher): They, they want to, but then when you show them the work that's involved, they'll go, oh yeah, that's right. Yeah.

0:22:22 - (Josh Bellieu): When they, when they drive up in their Mercedes with their smartphone on their ear, it's like, really, I have to get my hands dirty.

0:22:31 - (Ed Fletcher): When I take my customers out. I said, you know, either bring gloves, you're going to get dirt on your fingernails one way or the other because that's the way it's done.

0:22:39 - (Adam Payne): Most of these wildrafterss are generational, right. So they've, it's been, you know, and they keep their little secret hideouts of where these herbs are grown kind of as family secrets. It's truly amazing. You must have tons of stories, Ed, about what's going on there. So are there any herbs that have been emerging recently that are, are endangered or are that we need to watch out for, Ed?

0:23:02 - (Ed Fletcher): Well, one that's not native to the U.S. well, I take that back. It's very small. Rhodiola rosaod was just added to the CITES at the last conference of the parties meeting, which is the conventional on international trade ofangered in endangered species. So that's one that's getting a lot of publicity, rightfully so. It was being harvested just in large, large numbers. But it is being cultivated in Canada, Alaska and other all around the world. So it can be cultivated. But that's one that's really got a spotlight on it right now. Adam.

0:23:38 - (Adam Payne): So Rododioa, is that that adaptogenic is Ye.

0:23:43 - (Josh Bellieu): That's also one used in Russia.

0:23:45 - (Adam Payne): Quite. Yes, sure is'very interesting. Yeah, we've seen that actually have a big effect on people for energy and kind of not weight management, but for energy management. Amazing, amazing.

0:23:58 - (Josh Bellieu): So, Ed, I was watching. I've been watching this growing movement of people that live in the city, but they want to kind of get back to nature and maybe they're planning on moving out of the city. And I've seen these YouTube videos where they go out and literally spend two weeks as a couple or a family at a farm, and they will learn everything from milking cows, how to sustainably raise agriculture, how to grow things.

0:24:23 - (Josh Bellieu): Is there also some places where people could go? I mean, if somebody types in, you know, herb weekend or. There are some places where they could actually go for like two or three or four days at a time and learn how to do this?

0:24:35 - (Ed Fletcher): Yes, there's a lot of places. There's a lot of small herbalist schools. There's at least two or three here in North Carolina, some in the Northwest that you can go and do internships. And there's farms, too. Several of my customers have farms that they let. They'll. They like interns to come and spend the summer on. I have some of the farms we work on. One in particular in Canada, we have two to three interns every year that come and help us do the work in the summer. So, yes, there are just, you know, my suggestion is look the closest in your area and what you're looking for.

0:25:06 - (Adam Payne): To find some free labor is fun.

0:25:09 - (Josh Bellieu): It is, it is. Very much is. So do you see anything coming down the pike, Ed, for the future as it relates to the herbal industry? I know, Adam, and you have discussed at length regarding the contaminated or counterfeit products that are out on the market that you're not really getting what you want. Is there anything that's going to help move that into a better regulated state? You know, across the nation, across the.

0:25:41 - (Ed Fletcher): World, I think the spotlight is shown on our industry quite a bit. A couple of things that stand out. Number one, we as the Herbal of Products association, we've always encouraged the FDA to enforce d. The sha was drawn up to help protect, make sure the safety and the quality of herbs and that. And, you know, they have a hard time enforcing their enforcement numbers or just, you know, they don't have enough people to do the Work. But that's one thing we've always said, just enforced to shave.

0:26:16 - (Ed Fletcher): We have rules and regulations to follow. Just enforce those. And then another thing is Rick Kingston. I'm not sure. I can't remember his organization. Adam, you probably remember him from our conferences down in Mississippi. You know, he runs some of the recall, I believe, recall. In other words, he accepts a lot of recalls. I believe his company does that for pharmaceutical drugs and also for dietary supplements.

0:26:41 - (Ed Fletcher): And that shines a light on the low number of recalls percentage wise compared to drugs becauseus of side effects. And I just think if people would just look at these safety issues, the safety numbers on herbals are really such a low amount that I believe more and more of the general public will be comfortable being able to take these in the right amounts and in the right dosage, of course, makes.

0:27:04 - (Adam Payne): That makes complete sense. Yeah. Was there have been a couple of movements there with the FDA involved and the Herbal Products association working hand in hand to understand where there's being counterfeit things done and how there they can be controlled. Most of the energy is on all of these cannabis products, especially with the artificial cannabinoids like Delta 8. And that's been determined recently that Delta 8 is not a natural cannabinoid and therefore it's going to be scheduled rather than allowed in the marketplace.

0:27:39 - (Adam Payne): So are there'some significant changes that are coming in the medical marijuana and in the hemp space that I think is a little bit long overdue, but. And necessary in order to protect people.

0:27:55 - (Josh Bellieu): So we've got about a couple of minutes left. Ed, is there seasonally, are there herbs that traditionally are used more, for instance, in the spring and summer and then are there some that then are used in the fall and winter more?

0:28:09 - (Ed Fletcher): Oh, yes. I mean, generally speaking, in the fall and winter there you're looking at your immune support, I mean your immunity stimulators, support systems. And then, then I think in the fall and through the dead of the winter, the mood more the ones that support your moods with the winter blas, I think, as they call it. And then the summertime, I think more people want energy. So I think it does have a. It does have a flow with the demand and usage with the seasons. Yes.

0:28:36 - (Adam Payne): Interesting.

0:28:37 - (Josh Bellieu): Makes sense. Well, you have been listening to Mr. Edward Fletcher, one of our friends, and just it's always amazing to speak with him and learn more about our history of plants, botanical extracts here in the United States and around the world. Next time we have that on, I'm going to get him to promise to tell us some more stories about hiking through the jungles of native lands because you've done some pretty crazy stuff. I of kind of look at you as an Indiana Jones of the herbal world.

0:29:08 - (Adam Payne): Yeah. Ed and I, we were hopefully we'going to be heading out to Vietnam together to take a look at it. Some plantations there.

0:29:15 - (Josh Bellieu): That's right.

0:29:15 - (Adam Payne): For some Quilla latifolium, but that has been put off, hopefully not indefinitely, because that's an important herb for women's health and men's health. And we'll be able to speak more about that later.

0:29:27 - (Josh Bellieu): Thank you so much for joining us today. We so appreciate it.

0:29:31 - (Adam Payne): Yeah, Ed, we really appreciate you. Thanks for joining us.

0:29:33 - (Josh Bellieu): This is Ultra LIFE today. I'm Josh Bell.

0:29:35 - (Adam Payne): You I'm Adam Payne. Thanks for joining us. Stay tuned.