Reverse Heart Risk Without More Meds (Food, Fiber, Stress & “Personalized Cardiology”)

Most people think heart disease prevention starts and ends with cholesterol—or a prescription.

In Part 2 with board-certified cardiologist Dr. Royce Bargas, we go practical: food, fiber, sugar/fructose, exercise, stress, inflammation, and personalized lab markers that help you reduce risk (and in some cases, reduce reliance on meds).

In this episode:
* Why fructose can drive cholesterol production
* The “cholesterol myth” nuance: why eating cholesterol ≠ high cholesterol
* How fiber and whole foods can shift LDL particle quality
* The truth about exercise: what it can and can’t change
* Supplements that may support healthier lipid patterns (and why results are usually “small but real”)
* The overlooked driver: stress + trauma as inflammation fuel
* Case examples: how fast people can feel better when they actually do the work
* Why integrative care is growing… and why the system fights it

If you want the hopeful episode after the statin conversation—this is it.(For education only; not medical advice.)

📌 Disclaimer: Educational content only. Not medical advice.

Listen to the full episode here or watch it on YouTube!: https://youtu.be/nUJWi4l6VWk

Visit UltraBotanica.com to learn more about us and how you can get a free sample of our products.

Transcript

0:00:00 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): We haven't even talked about stress. But stress is wicked inflammatory. It will increase your inflammatory biomarkers. And if you think that stress does not affect your vascular system and every other organ, you're wrong. It does. And so all of my patients get stress resiliency recommendations. I mean, it can be as little as like just going internal and doing focused stress square breath work, five minutes, twice a day.

0:00:28 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): It can decrease your blood pressure and decrease your inflammation and is a huge part of my practice. It's kind of a side note, but a lot of the world has trauma, childhood trauma, adult trauma. And the body has this amazing memory for trauma. And if you just push your trauma under the rug. Oh, I'm fine. It's not affecting me.

0:00:54 - (Josh Bellieu): It's.

0:00:54 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): It will come back and it will cause physiologic disease. You will be sick. It is not all in your head. And you have to get rid of trauma.

0:01:14 - (Josh Bellieu): Hey, everyone. Welcome to Ultralife. Today we have an episode today that's going to be awesome. A previous episode, we talked about statin drugs. The good, the bad, the ugly and hopeful. You weren't like falling on the floor crying and weeping at the end of that saying, there's no hope for me. Because the doctor we have here today, Dr. Royce Vargas, is here with us. Adam Painter almost called you a doctor, but I think you should have been, you know, you probably could go get your boards, you know, in a couple some days maybe.

0:01:42 - (Josh Bellieu): But Dr. Royce Vargas, she's a do a board certified cardiologist. She gave us some incredible insights into statin drugs. Really opened my eyes because I was one of those naysayers that you never use statins for any reason at all. And wow, you floored me. And welcome back again, Dr. Royce Vargas. And let's get into the hopeful things regarding lifestyle changes, diet, exercise, stress management, and how you and your practice. The thing I think is so cool about your practice, you are so non laissez faire.

0:02:18 - (Josh Bellieu): You say if people will do the work, they come see me. We will figure it out. If they'll do the work, they'll have changes. And I've heard you tell some amazing stories, but so give us a. Give us the idea of where you start as it relates to lifestyle changes. Diet, exercise, supplementation, maybe.

0:02:37 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Okay, so, yeah, functional medicine is just a much more holistic approach and uses a lot of things besides traditional pharmaceuticals. And if you didn't listen to the last episode, please, please, because I give a lot of good information about statins and that they aren't all evil and Bad and that they do have a role, but still not everybody needs them. And so my approach really is to look at all those factors that we talked about that participate in cardiovascular disease and decide, is a statin necessary or is it necessary to decrease cholesterol? Let's say that. Okay.

0:03:18 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Or are those other factors present and how can we do all of them? And there are many non pharmacologic ways to decrease a person's risk and even non supplemental. And so, you know, we are what we eat. Food is medicine. And it is really the top priority and should be the top priority for everybody what you consume. Because all of the factors that drive cardiovascular disease, dementia, diabetes, cancer, they're nutrition based. They stem from inflammation that comes from the diet. And what things that we should not be eating that we do, all the physiologic effects in our body that cause problems with our cells that lead to bad outcomes.

0:04:06 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): So food first. Don't eat inflammatory foods. Don't eat foods that were created in a factory somewhere.

0:04:14 - (Josh Bellieu): And that's a real small list, right? Inflammatory foods.

0:04:17 - (Adam Payne): It's like, oh, Jo.

0:04:19 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Yeah, so really whole foods. And so from a, specifically from a cholesterol standpoint, what a lot of people don't know is that fructose is the driver that turns on the machinery in the liver to make cholesterol. And so fructose is obviously in every processed food. High fructose corn syrup is everywhere. Nobody should consume it. And the more you eat, the higher your cholesterol will be. It is a myth that eating cholesterol causes high cholesterol.

0:04:47 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): There was actually a study that took people and had them eat four or six eggs every day and compared them to people who didn't eat any eggs, and it did not increase their cholesterol at all. There is a small subset of people who do have over absorption. And that's actually one thing that I look at in my practice. If you have high cholesterol, are you a producer or an absorber or both? And there's biomarkers that tell me that, and I use that as an opportunity to reduce the cholesterol. Do I have to shut down production or do I have to shut down absorptions back to pharmaceuticals? It is an opportunity to get away from statins. If somebody is a hyper absorber, you can shut that down with different supplements. But also Ezetimibe, which is a very common pharmaceutical that decreases cholesterol absorption in the distal gut. And I've had people that I optimize all of their biomarkers on Ezetimibe alone with lifestyle, of course, and don't have to use a statin at all.

0:05:49 - (Josh Bellieu): Ezetimibe doesn't. Doesn't freak out our microbiome.

0:05:54 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): It doesn't.

0:05:54 - (Josh Bellieu): How nice that.

0:05:55 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): I can tell there are another drug side effect, but it doesn't. It's pretty effective at decreasing cholesterol and it's pretty well tolerated in general. So other things about lifestyle. Fructose is the big one. Fructose is the main sugar in fruit. And so if you have very high cholesterol, you should be careful and not consume a ton of fruit. That's aside from the whole hyperglycemia, metabolic dysfunction epidemic that we have.

0:06:24 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): You have to eat all the colors of the rainbow because all the phytonutrients are important for all of your cellular function and decrease of inflammation. And then I would say the other thing is fiber. If you can consume a huge amount of fiber, that can also decrease cholesterol production. And sugar and refined processed foods are also the driver to produce those teeny tiny bad particles. And so the more whole foods and vegetables you eat, the larger and fluffier.

0:06:55 - (Josh Bellieu): Your particles are on an unusual.

0:06:59 - (Adam Payne): Is that a good thing? The fluffy particles? I thought the fluffy particles were not a good thing.

0:07:04 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): If you're going to have high LDL and apob, you want the particle to be larger and fluffier and less likely to become oxidized and inflammatory. You don't want the teeny tiny small.

0:07:19 - (Adam Payne): Ones that can actually infiltrate into the tissues.

0:07:23 - (Josh Bellieu): I remember my dad who was really into supplementation and diet and lifestyle way back in the day, before it was popular, back in the Adele Davis days. Anyway, I remember when he got the high cholesterol notice from his practitioner. He utilized niacin, oat bran and a very intense form of garlic and was able to actually lower his cholesterol and keep it under control using those things. I just thought, wow, that's pretty simple.

0:07:54 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Yeah, There are many supplements and so bergamot can be helpful. Bergamot actually affects production and absorption.

0:08:01 - (Josh Bellieu): Earl Grey tea. That's a big plug for you, eg.

0:08:05 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): It can modify the particle, the characteristics of the particle, and can decrease production. Very potent antioxidant, too. And so if you're worried about oxidized ldl, EGCG can be helpful. I use pomegranate, pantothenic acid, resveratrol, curcumin. All of these can modify the particle size and can help to decrease production. When I'm talking to a patient, I explain all These things. Now, what one has to understand about supplements is that they make microscopic, like teeny tiny changes in what our physiology already does.

0:08:46 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Now, if you eat a ton of sugar and don't eat any fiber, and you completely turn that around and start consuming 30 grams of fiber a day and completely avoid sugar, you can radically change your cholesterol numbers. The other lifestyle factor is exercise. And so it's a myth that you can burn off bad cholesterol. That is not true. You do not burn off your LDL by exercising. But what you can do is increase hdl, which is a beneficial form of cholesterol that can be somewhat helpful.

0:09:19 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): And the main driver to increase production of the HDL is exercise, specifically high intensity interval training.

0:09:28 - (Josh Bellieu): Wow. Hit. Okay, now you've shared with Adam and I before, I think, on another episode about some specific case studies. And I know this helps people that are viewing to hear you say, I took somebody in this kind of shape and we looked at them, here's what we found, here's what I said to do, and here was the outcome. Could you share a couple of case studies of your own patients? Obviously, it will be confidential information there, no names mentioned, but can you give us some of those little slices and snapshots? Because this makes people feel like there's a lot of hope.

0:10:05 - (Adam Payne): Yeah. Before we get into that, I just wanted to. We didn't touch base on how autoimmunity affects the cardiovascular disease when I was heavily into the rheumatology side. Oh, this is a great story of cardiovascular wellness. Back in 2006, 2007, in fact, Dr. Joan Bathan, who is the head of the American College of Rheumatology and one of the chief editors of one of their key journals, we wrote a grant with the American College of Rheumatology to look at whether we could measure biomarkers in people with rheumatoid arthritis that correlated with cardiovascular disease.

0:10:53 - (Adam Payne): And what we found, so there was this phenomenon that was happening, and you probably, I'm sure you've seen this, is that the inflammation in the joints was actually leaking out of those cytokines and chemokines that act that are part of the inflammation signaling process that's proliferating, that autoimmunity in the joints actually leaks out of the joints and affects all sorts of different organs and body systems.

0:11:24 - (Adam Payne): But primarily what they were seeing, which is why cardiovascular disease was being studied in rheumatoid arthritis, is because lifespan for people with RA was seven years earlier. The death came seven years earlier, on average. Because of cardiovascular disease.

0:11:44 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Yeah. I think that is a complicated issue, Adam. So, as I said, inflammation is the root of all evil, and people who have rheumatoid or any other autoimmune disease have higher levels of inflammation. I would argue that there is no such thing as inflammation, only in the joints. I measure Interleukin 6 is one of the inflammatory markers that I measure. That is an independent risk factor for cardiac disease, not necessarily because Interleukin 6 somehow causes the unstable atherosclerotic plaque, but because it's just a marker of inflammation. And higher levels of inflammation are going to equal higher levels of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, regardless of what is the root cause of the inflammation, which is. It's why it is so important to put out every fire, no matter what, if you want to decrease risk. I think the other complicating thing about that is the treatment.

0:12:40 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): But for autoimmune disease often involves medications that increase cholesterol, and then the mainstay of therapy is prednisone, which causes hyperglycemia and diabetes, which is a bigger risk factor for vascular disease than cholesterol.

0:12:55 - (Adam Payne): Yeah. I think most of the researchers I worked with would absolutely agree. They saw a direct correlation with the amount. They would measure the amount of increased circulating cytokines with people, and that was correlated with the increased cardiovascular disease. So that ultimately we came up with six biomarkers that directly correlated for people with rheumatoid arthritis with a higher propensity for cardiovascular disease as a tool.

0:13:27 - (Adam Payne): We're trying to develop a tool for rheumatologists to say, okay, which one of your patients do you need to specifically get a cardiovascular consult on? Because these people are the ones that are probably having. The intermediate thickness on the carotid artery was thickening because of blockages. Their coronary calcium scores are going up. It was just. It became a whole conundrum for the rheumatologists that now I have to manage cardiovascular disease.

0:14:03 - (Adam Payne): Why do I have to manage cardiovascular disease? I don't want to do that. They didn't want to do it, but they had to bridge that gap in order for them to take care of their patients, honestly. But what we're learning is all systemic inflammatory diseases are having a huge impact on cardiovascular wellness.

0:14:27 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): 100%. That is functional medicine.

0:14:30 - (Josh Bellieu): Yeah. I have to believe it's. Well, yeah, functional medicine. Tying it together in a holistic thing, because it just seems like this ripple effect. I remember hearing stories of doctors saying it was like, whack A mole. Conventional doctors with no holistic mindset saying, it's like whack a mole. I do the one thing for the person, and another thing pops up, and then another thing pops up, and it's like, how do we handle this? Well, in a holistic mindset.

0:14:53 - (Josh Bellieu): So a couple of case studies for us, Royce.

0:14:56 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Oh, case studies.

0:14:57 - (Josh Bellieu): I know you've got a lot.

0:14:58 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): I do, and it's so hard.

0:15:00 - (Josh Bellieu): And one of the ones I. One of the ones I remember. Maybe this will spur your memory. Is you said, I have those that won't do the work. I give them the roadmap. We know it's going to work. We know their health is going to turn around. They don't do the work, their health doesn't turn around. But then I remember you mentioning a male person, probably, I'm going to say, 50 to 60 years old. There was a wreck and a mess. When they came to you, and when you told them to do the work, they did the work. And I just remember these markers of how rapidly this is what I want our viewers to understand.

0:15:38 - (Josh Bellieu): You just mentioned stopping sugar. Talk about a radical change. Somebody is going to feel that within three or four days, it's going to feel good. I mean, it's instant results after you.

0:15:49 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Get I did it withdrawal because.

0:15:52 - (Josh Bellieu): Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

0:15:53 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): You both have a symptom, like opiate withdrawal when you give up sugar.

0:15:58 - (Josh Bellieu): Okay, so that one case study, if you'll. If you'll share that, about that particular male.

0:16:02 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Yes. So he mid to late 60s, a metabolic disaster. He ate the standard American diet. He has atrial fibrillation. He's a vasculopath. He's had stents. He had had a stroke, which may have been related to afib, may have been vascular disease. And his numbers were horrible. So I call it my Fiery five. I hope nobody steals that, because I do want to write a book someday.

0:16:32 - (Josh Bellieu): Oh, it's trademarked. We' already done that for you in your name. It's good.

0:16:36 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Thank you. And so those biomarkers, all the things that I look at, they were all abnormal. And he got his lifestyle prescription. I give everybody a meal plan, an exercise prescription, stress resiliency practices. We haven't even talked about stress, but stress is wicked inflammatory. It will increase your inflammatory biomarkers. If you think that stress does not affect your vascular system and every other organ, you're wrong. It does. And so all of my patients get stress resiliency recommendations.

0:17:14 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): I mean, it can be as little as, like, just going internal and doing focused square Breath work five minutes, twice a day. It can increase, decrease your blood pressure and decrease your inflammation and is a huge part of my practice. It's kind of a side note, but a lot of the world has trauma, childhood trauma, adult trauma. And the body has this amazing memory for trauma. And if you just push your trauma under the rug, oh, I'm fine.

0:17:45 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): It's not affecting me. It will come back and it will cause physiologic disease. You will be sick. It is not all in your head.

0:17:54 - (Josh Bellieu): Goodness.

0:17:55 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): And you have to get rid of trauma. I refer a lot of people for trauma release therapy, like get rid of the trauma super inflammatory, like bioenergetic therapy.

0:18:05 - (Adam Payne): Or something like that.

0:18:05 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): So releasing different things that work for different people. I do. I actually have a guy who treats people in my office that does bioenergetic therapy. Some people can do hypnosis. I love, like Plant Based Journeys. That's a whole other podcast. But like psilocybin can be super helpful for trauma. I cannot wait until that makes its way kind of mainstream in the world. I hope that happens.

0:18:33 - (Josh Bellieu): After the MDMA thing got firmly shot down two weeks ago by the fda really crushed it.

0:18:38 - (Adam Payne): Oh, they crushed it.

0:18:39 - (Josh Bellieu): Yeah.

0:18:40 - (Adam Payne): I thought MDMA was really being beneficial in a.

0:18:43 - (Josh Bellieu): Well, no, they were proving that it was very beneficial, but it's a small company that doesn't have a lot of ties in.

0:18:49 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): It's not supported by big Part, pull the strings. It's going to mean the use of less antipsychotics, antidepressants, anti anxiety.

0:18:57 - (Josh Bellieu): Yeah, Literally. Adam, you've got, you know, like with ketamine, mdma, you've got three sessions and people are so much better that it's like they don't need the other things anymore. Well, that doesn't support. We won't go there.

0:19:08 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): It will change the world. But you have to get it through the US government, which is going to. It's going to. I don't know if I'm going to see it in my lifetime, to be honest. I hope I do.

0:19:18 - (Josh Bellieu): Anyway, so many people are going out of control. Yeah, let's do. Indeed, let's do. And it's so cool that you mentioned that you just probably gained another 10,000 fans for us by your insights. Because people understand.

0:19:32 - (Adam Payne): I was just watching in Cancun, people are going there for DMT sessions.

0:19:36 - (Josh Bellieu): Yes.

0:19:36 - (Adam Payne): They're going there for the. What, the. The toad thing. And they're getting incredible. Whatever that's called. The.

0:19:42 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): I don't even know what that is.

0:19:43 - (Adam Payne): But it's the other you know, it's the same, it's like even more intense than dmt. They're getting these.

0:19:47 - (Josh Bellieu): That's scary. Religion.

0:19:50 - (Adam Payne): No, they, they, they extract from the.

0:19:53 - (Josh Bellieu): Kiss it and then it turns into. While you're on the drug, it turned now.

0:19:56 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Oh, a prank.

0:19:58 - (Adam Payne): Well, you might experience that, but they have these reintegration experiences when it's done properly and when it's done in an appropriate setting and when they come back feeling that they're not separate from the world, that we're all part of one organism and more grounded.

0:20:16 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Yeah, it's really phenomenal therapy. So anyway, I wish I could refer people for that, but it does work and some of my patients have done it. It's hard as a medical provider to get resuscitated resources for that to send a patient to because it's all so much kind of, you know, on the underground. And then, I mean, some people do really well with talks therapy. There's people that were, you know, victims of like childhood sexual trauma that have never even seen a therapist.

0:20:47 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): And then they come to me with, you know, 25 different medical diagnoses and it's really all from one core.

0:20:55 - (Josh Bellieu): It's amazing. So we paused in the middle of your case study and I'm so glad we did because trauma, it's something that I'm finding functional and integrative medical people. We met with a bunch of oncologists that are naturopathic in a couple of different settings. And I was hearing that over and over. It was the subject of some of the sessions. You've got to get to the trauma thing. And they were also talking about the use of psychedelics and things.

0:21:21 - (Josh Bellieu): So that's really interesting that that's a part of your deal. So you told us that this person was a mess. Their markers were completely off and he.

0:21:29 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Did all the things that I told him to do. He was on a statin as well, probably 5 milligrams of rosuvastatin. That's kind of my go to. And all of his markers at his three month follow up had improved. And I mean, he was one of my first patients and he's kind of like the prototype of my practice and he continues to do really well even today. I just saw a person yesterday, she's 72 and she had high cholesterol markers and some inflammation.

0:22:03 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): She's been with me for a couple of years now. Super anti opposed to statins. I determined that one of her markers for absorption was high. I begged her, please just try ezetimibe. We had tried all the things. So, you know, who do I really kind of twist their arm for statins when we do all the things. From a lifestyle standpoint, sometimes people have taken supplements. Unfortunately, like I was trying to get to before supplements, they're tiny.

0:22:37 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): The changes are tiny compared to even a tiny dose of rosuvastatin. And so if you're looking at dependency on supplements, you are going to have to take a handful of different things two and three times a day to have the same effect.

0:22:52 - (Josh Bellieu): The compliance is tough there.

0:22:53 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): The compliance is tough. But when we've tried all the things and at the end of the day, I recommend a statin. I recommend a statin. If I can't manage it any other way, it's definitely not my go to. But back to this particular patient. So I put her on Ezetimibe and all of her numbers yesterday were where I wanted them. Nobody thought that it would be effective. The literature wouldn't really support that, but it really worked for her.

0:23:18 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): And she's happy as a clam. She's like, she literally went like this in my office and no statin.

0:23:25 - (Josh Bellieu): And that's personalized medicine. That is personalized approach. You spend so much time with your people. So real quickly, back to your mail case study. How quickly did that individual begin to notice? As you gave them their plan and they started to do the work, how quickly did that individual begin to notice changes in the way they felt, energy levels, brain fog, whatever other symptoms they were experiencing? How quickly do people notice?

0:23:55 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): I think it was about two weeks for him. So he also had really horrible joint pain. And I think I may have taken him off a really high dose of Torvastatin. I can't remember, but he had tons of arthritis just from too much sugar and too much inflammation in his system. And he actually had difficulty walking, so he couldn't do the exercise program because he had so much joint pain. And I think it was within about two weeks, all of his joint pain was gone and he was exercising every day.

0:24:28 - (Josh Bellieu): Last question for this episode, and you're a very hopeful person. As we talked about during the Psychedelics segment, what do you see for the future of cardiology as it relates? I mean, you, you have this incredibly cool hybrid practice that welcomes individuals that are totally into the conventional standard of care mindset, and then you educate them into this beautiful, hey, let's treat everything as a whole. Let's look at root causes.

0:24:54 - (Josh Bellieu): But do you have. Can you be a prophet for a second and put your profits hat on and say what you potentially see as the future for cardiology. And is there a broader acceptance now for individuals to embrace more of this integrative and holistic mindset?

0:25:13 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Well, the people want it and they need it now. The providers and the system that is backing medical providers does not want it. And so it's going to remain a battle and, and the people will seek it out. Unfortunately, it is going to be a small set of those people because personalized medicine is not for everybody because it's not paid for by insurance.

0:25:44 - (Josh Bellieu): It's not paid for by insurance.

0:25:46 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): Of course there will remain, unfortunately, this whole segment of the population that is under the mantra that if my insurance doesn't pay for it, I can't have it and they won't get it. They will get their prescription for atorvastatin, 80 milligrams and their coronary stent when they develop vascular disease. I am hopeful that more and more people in the population are demanding it. Covid has helped that because it has raised the scrutiny and prejudice against Big Pharma and it's kind of driven people into that integrative space and really woken people up to maybe drugs are not the answer to all people's problems.

0:26:30 - (Josh Bellieu): Yeah. And maybe I should be a little more proactive about investigating my own health and taking charge of it and seeing if there are other answers out there.

0:26:39 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): There will continue to be a very much increase in education for the community and for the population. And population will demand this form of medicine. Now will the system change to accommodate it? That's a much higher road.

0:26:58 - (Josh Bellieu): Well, that's why we need Elon Musk in the spirit to be hearing what you're saying today and saying, you know what, I'm going to fund that alternative form of insurance that will actually prove people can live longer, be healthier, and it'll cost the system a whole lot of money. Elon, I hope you're listening.

0:27:14 - (Adam Payne): Yeah, much less money, actually, because you're healthier people. We're going to avoid people being, you know, having all of this end stage cardiovascular disease.

0:27:21 - (Dr. Royce Bargas): The system is so broken. It's not a population who doesn't want it or doesn't need it. It's a system that's broken. And the population is dependent on the system to get their health care. And it is not health care.

0:27:32 - (Adam Payne): There was a recent study came out just to finish this idea that correlated directly the amount of dementia that happened in terms of incidents directly correlated with the amount of processed food, the percentage of processed food that that person had in their diet.

0:27:49 - (Josh Bellieu): No surprise. No surprise.

0:27:50 - (Adam Payne): So, I mean, there's all of these connections that connect. How far away are we from a whole food diet, from foods that actually are nutritious and feed us to things that are easy to access? We need to go back to our roots.

0:28:08 - (Josh Bellieu): Absolutely. Well, you've been listening to Dr. Royce Bargus, Dr. Of osteopathy, board certified cardiologist, has this incredible hybrid practice of understanding people that are used to standard of care and insurance and pay and that kind of thing, but helping to educate and bring you into a place where you can actually turn your life around, turn your health around and move into a place of wholeness and have a long, healthy life.

0:28:34 - (Josh Bellieu): Bargas wellness.com b a r g a s wellness.com Royce Vargas, Adam Payne, I'm Josh Bellew. This is Ultra Life Today. Sam.