How to sell to different personalities: Jamie Martin

What do we need to consider and what should we do so that we have a deeper impact or a deeper relationship with our buyers?

Jamie Martin is an award-winning Sales coach, Speaker and Podcaster from the UK, who has some great insights on selling to different personalities.
 
We all know that all things being equal, people like to work with people who are more like themselves. And that the spoken word only makes up a very small part of the way we absorb communication. Body language, tone, pace etc all play a massive part on the way we perceive those communication signals
 
People personalities also play a massive part in the way they perceive or process our communication.
 
To be fair, this is something I've found difficult to adopt in my personal selling style. So I was really looking forward to hearing from the expert here.

Catch some great ideas about how you can change your selling style to match that of your buyer, regardless of what their personality is.

Jamie Martin
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiemartin111/

Mark McInnes
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mcinnes/

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Transcript

mark_mcinnes: 0:00

Welcome to the BOSS podcast. Today, we are joined by Jamie Martin all the way from Swindon in the UK. Jamie, thanks for joining.

jamie-martin: 0:08

Mark delighted to be here. Thank you for having me on your show.

mark_mcinnes: 0:11

My pleasure. So Jamie, you're a modern B2B sales coach with correct careers coaching. You're also podcast hosts. So your audio will be awesome all through the episode. I'm sure as well, it looks like you've got a really strong history of sales and sales leadership, through your professional career. Can you talk us through your recent sales history and, and what you're up to at careers?

jamie-martin: 0:33

absolutely. Yeah. I've really had , And an interest in silo's background, which I felt really enjoyed to be able to lead me what I do in my own business today. I think I'm going to start by saying, you know, I, I completed university with a psychology degree , and then a business psychology, postgraduate certificate. And that really helped me in understanding individual differences. We touched on psychology in the workplace psychometrics and , it's all about, you know, understanding personalities and, and building relations. Throughout the business world and the social world. So I finally enjoyed my academic background. And during that time I had now over about 10 years in sales experience. So I've done everything from telemarketing, for telecommunications. I've done door knocking sales, I've done media sales and I've done a MC career, a successful career in recruiting. And there is, you know, some people would say recruitment is one of the hardest sales roles. I don't know. Would you agree with that mark or.

mark_mcinnes: 1:29

Yeah. I'll have some recruitment based , clients currently. Yeah. And it's, it's a, it's a tough gig.

jamie-martin: 1:34

Hmm. Well, and I feel that's because , you know, it's not a product or you are selling a service, but you are dealing with people and it is about, you know, it's, it's kind of like your into me, you know, into, into intermediate between the interim, between the, you know, parties, you know, the, the camera. And the client and come up with situations that you can never be exposed to. So there isn't necessarily a rule book or a handbook for selling. So you have to really be innovative. You have to be unique and memorable. And that is, you know, a challenge within the recruitment entries also is very competitive, but I had a fantastic career there. I worked for one of the UK leading global recruitment agencies. I've been promoted five times. Won awards, broke records, recruiting internationally, all levels of personnel , to C level individuals. And the list goes on. And, you know, I talk about it because it wasn't, you know, all successful. There was certainly the, the, you know, challenges within my , Within my role. But you build character and you, you learn how to develop different ways of, of salad, salad, especially business to business central relationship building. And also, you know, within, within my role, I manage a team, so it was helping them to sell better. So that was really my background. And I probably would have stayed in recruitment for a long time. I feel it's like in your blood. But I decided that I wanted to go and set up my own business. After a nice career break, I started correct careers coaching and the aim of the, of the business model at the beginning really was to focus on three different pillars. All the employee retention, I looked at employee turnover for so long, and I wanted to look at retention strategies and I felt that sales customer service sales strategy was one. Career coaching was the other relevant and employee engagement and retention strategies was the overall model. So that's what I've been building on. And I, you know, work in collaboration with others as well to achieve that goal. As the business has been developing, I found that, you know, all different types of markets. So I've worked with over 28 different industry sectors up to 106 million plus turnover businesses , on a global platform. Now, you know, Feel that sales needs to be , embraced, especially social selling due to the digital world, being more buoyant than other , but also revisiting sort of, you know, basic selling strategies because the world has changed. And I think what's happened is, you know, because we have now a technology AI and digital platform out there, aren't salespeople losing , relationships with, with people which brings us on to what we're going to do. Discussing today is about, you know, it's, it's a very competitive market. So how do we build personalities? With our prospects to then win the business, you know, and if you look at data, which a lot of , you know, there's a term called science-based selling, it looks at the customer buying journey. So from neuro linguistic programming, social psychology business economics, it looks at what the customer experience is like basically the science of selling. And we really need. And that during the, the buy-in experience , because there's a famous quote by Tony Robbins , people who are like each other tend to like each other. And I, I think that is absolutely. You know, fantastic, you know, because it's about that renowned know like, and trust term, so, Yeah. So that's where I'm at today. Mark. It's about helping my , the businesses look at. Okay, So what sort of a sales, cadence, or sequence of actions. Such touchpoints. Do you have, are they personalized? How are you approaching your prospects? And most importantly, you know, what research and sort of structure do you have and, and, and technology do you have before you actually, you know, engage and build rapport with someone because, because of the competition out there, if you lose , the emotional buy-in with a prospect driven the journey, they may go to a competitor. So you really got to look at it. Stage of the sales strategy and process to make sure you, you, you are focused on the customer.

mark_mcinnes: 5:16

right. Intro. Yeah. So look, first of all, I've got to say I'm jealous because if I went to university and I, I , Straight out of school, I would have done a psychology degree as well, knowing what I now know. Like I think , as a sales trainer and somebody that's interested in, in trying to. Help people make transactions. That's the, that's the degree that we should have done in a, not economics, not marketing. So yeah, well done, well done on I'm picking that up, whether that was by design or by good luck, Jamie, but, I'll have to come clean here, mate. Look, I've been selling for a long time and I've been. Training people for a long time. But, well, before that, as a salesperson, some of the first training sessions that I was given, people were talking about, you have to sell to different, different personalities in a different way, and it's been something. I really just, haven't been able to get very comfortable with, you know, over the, over a long period of time. So I'm really looking forward to what you're able to share with us today, because I think it's a gap in, in, in my personal skills as being able to adapt, to sell to different people. I would think that I've got a high IQ, but I think everyone says that much, much like this. They say that I'm an above average car driver. You know, like something like this, it's something that something like 78% of people think they are. They, you know, they're they're are above average cab driver, which is doesn't make sense. And I think people use the same thing for AI or IQ, you know, on, on, you know, emotionally have a higher IQ. So I'm looking forward to hearing this. So what are some of the things that we need to know? Like where do we start here? In relationship to selling the different personalities.

jamie-martin: 6:44

Yeah. I think that this is certainly a couple of integral , areas of in this topic. The first thing I would say is, is about communication , and your, your correspondence with a potential process. Now, you know, we all, we all learn differently. We all think differently. We all emotionally react differently. There's research out there about what the decision-making process. We based that on 90% emotions, rather than 10% competence. And the reasons for that is because we. Be able to feel there's a rapport with someone and that's where personality comes into it. You know, realistically, no one likes being sold to, and even if you are looking to buy a certain service or product, you know, you don't want to feel pushed into that decision. You want to feel as the, as the customer you are in control. Like neuroscience is really all about your, your feelings and your emotions. So when, when I talk about communication, you know, some people prefer to communicate more visually. So that could be a video platforms. It could be images and graphics. Some people prefer to have auditory, so listening to podcasts. So everybody listened to the check out the boss podcast and recommend it. And that is the third to, you know, touch. Here's what's it, you know, so it's just, it just depends on your own sort of, style of learning new information, because our attention span is very short, our working memory, you know, isn't very long. I believe, you know, in, in sort of the, the marketing sense, we only have an average of about eight seconds of attention span, which is one second lower than a gold. You know, I'm sure there's different research online about that, but it's actually quite surprising. So what are your being , what are your prospects and someone, whether it's by social media, copy, social media, marketing , email copy , audio, you can, you know, send all your messages on LinkedIn, you know, really the first kind of, you know, introduction section or that is the impact that's going to have to the prospect. And if. T to that communication style effectively , or they haven't gained enough kind of , interest then, then they may not want to continue on with you during the buyer journey. So the, the, the first sort of advice I would give it, you know, it can be difficult, especially if you're researching someone on LinkedIn or you've got a list on a CRM.

mark_mcinnes: 8:43

Yeah.

jamie-martin: 8:43

And, and your prospects and so on by telephone or email, you know, how can you work out? What is the preferred method of communication style? So that can be quite challenging. So I would say a bit of research. If you see some of every, one of your prospects, very active on LinkedIn and their posts and videos, they may be doing blogging. They may be doing, you know, hiding up high volume of graphics and their posts, their, their preferred method may be visual. So it might make sense to alter your approach to that prospect to say, Okay. why don't I tailor a personalized video message and send that to them? You know, in a private message or in a direct message, or even in. And that may really get their retention because you, you kind of worked out, you know, that that's maybe how they like to communicate. Again, if you, if you do it a bit more research and you look at some of the copy on the LinkedIn profile and , heavily, you know, Yeah, academic based, or you can see by the way they write in that they may be an introvert and they may like, you know, written communication. So that means that you need to tailor your , your, your emails , your, your direct messaging on social media to make it very detailed. You know, maybe they, they liked that style of communication. So there's, there's a couple of tips and techniques I would use initially.

mark_mcinnes: 9:56

Jamie just, what would that look like? So the example you gave there, video things really easy, right? So I get that, like, I have people posting videos and they're using a lot of visual stuff that you can go, okay. I should communicate to Jamie in a video. Heavy heavy or a stronger level of video or a strong level of visual outrage. What about the other styles? Like how do I know that someone's an introvert by what they're posting typing, blogging about or the way that can I tell by the way they've written an email? Like, is that possible? I know there's a couple of questions here. Sorry.

jamie-martin: 10:28

Yeah. I'm sure there's probably AI out there, you know, or will be made to, to work that out. You know, I couldn't, I couldn't honestly give the answer to that, but there is actually a really good websites and integration to LinkedIn. It's called crystal nose. And that's Bristol, K N O w S if you have to put that in the show notes , I would suggest people have a look that you can, you have to have a free trial on it. And that actually builds like a bit of a behavioral profile against some LinkedIn , Profiles. So you can kind of see that likes some dislikes, some of the characteristics and attributes maybe, and then you can actually work out, you know, from some of that information. Okay. Should I approach them or maybe there may be more of an introvert. Should I approach them more, you know, in a written sort of style , or, or they may be extrovert, not that introverts and extroverts are in a box and they, they will use either eat a style of video and or audio, but again, there might be an app. So they might be a mixture of both. So the best kind of a solution I would give you is if someone hasn't responded to your initial , approach to them, try a different touch point and see if they, if that resonates with them, you can then record this data and work out. Actually they responded more to maybe a WhatsApp message. I remember doing some of mine. Yeah. A business, a business prospect in , they wouldn't reply to me by email or telephone. So I did WhatsApp and I was getting WhatsApp replies. You know, so it's just using your innovation approach and working out what is best for them. And then when you become a bit more, they're a bit more rapport with them. You can then ask them, do you know, what, what is your preferred method of communication? Even to the fact of, I know when some clients check their emails or what answer the phone. So if I was going to , you know, approach one of my clients who hasn't come back to me, I know Wednesday afternoon probably. 3 34. I can get hold of them on the telephone. So I make sure that's the first call I made and, you know, telephone. I don't think , you know, instead I think, you know, video conference is really big at the moment and not everyone wants to jump on video conference and especially if you're an introvert, it's taken a lot of your energy. So you might actually want to get on the phone and you might be a bit more, preferred to audio communication style. So again, if you can ask appropriately to your prospect, what is your preferred method of communication? When is your preferred, correspondence , day in time and make sure you adhere to this. You've already built a really strong rapport with that personality of that prospect, which is going to help you against your competitors during the pitch in and buy and journey.

mark_mcinnes: 12:43

Really interesting. So do you think if I'm running a training session, so I'm just using my examples here, right? And let's say, you know, there's 10 people on, on the training program and there's one or two people that constantly have them. Camera turned off, for example, would I, would I be, would it be likely for me to assume that they were more like less visual focused or is that too, too big of a boat? A draw, because they're going to say that they were saying the visual for me anyway. So yeah. Do you know what I mean? So they're getting the video, if they're visually more visually stimulated or whatever the correct term for that is , Are they likely to go, I want to project my video because that's how my personality comes across. Or are they just going to be like a, Mark's got his video on and that's going to fit more the way that I consume content, does it like, can you assume that, that if they've got the video turned off, they're likely to be on consistently. They're more likely to be an introvert.

jamie-martin: 13:45

Well, Yeah. it would be hard to assume it. And the answer to that question would be the base based on the context of the information. But to be honest, that that situation mark, I would ask them, you know, is there a reason why you don't have your video on, is there a better, communication style we can have with one? And that it may be, it might be a personalized session by telephone and it could be because they might not feel comfortable having the video on , you know, with a load of other interviews. It might be that, that they, they are distracted by video. Some of my training sessions, especially when I teach myself psychology , program, which is, you know, uniquely to what I do based on a lot, you know, some of the things we're talking about, I will say we going to turn the video off because I just want to speak audio because I want you to write down because obviously, you know, by doing things, you actually learn more process information more because I found video distracting. If they're constantly looking at me or worrying about themselves, Then not focusing their attention on what they should be doing. Again, you know, some people are video. The other flip side of that is they may turn the video off because they may be losing attention elsewhere and they may be doing other things on their , that a laptop at the time. So it depends on the situation, but engage in buys. I would ask him and just to touch point on that, you know, 93%, all of our communication. Is actually nonverbal. So body language and tone and pitch and voice 7% is verbal. You know what, what we actually say? So if, if you're having a, say a training session or a pitch meeting with someone of a video conference and they've switched their camera roll, you cannot read their body language effectively. So that's 55% that, of, of communication that you are. And you need to be aware of certain communication, whether they bought good eye contact, are they touching their hair or are they looking like away from the camera? That means they may be not engaged. So you then need to bring them back into the conversation by asking them open questions or getting them to actually do some actions on the video conferences or on the internet, because you want to get their attention to , articulate what you're saying to them at that time, whether it's a sales pitch or not. So I hope that kind of, you know, elaborate on some of those points.

mark_mcinnes: 15:39

Yeah. Okay. No, no, no, that's good. That's good. I'm just trying to get my head around this. So what does that mean for the way that we reach out to people? So, you know, one of the things I'd like to do is build out a deliberate cadence for a particular persona. Hightower or marketing head of marketing. For example, we might build out a cadence for those, for the, for the generalizations inside that particular industry. Does that mean we need to change the cadence to match people's personality as well?

jamie-martin: 16:10

Yeah, absolutely. And I know this might seem like a, you know, a mountain to climb because especially if

mark_mcinnes: 16:16

does. It seems like a lot of extra work.

jamie-martin: 16:18

it does, and you know, it might be certain technology and AI to be able to do this. It might be that you have certain sales teams or sales reps within the business to focus on this area, looking at the research stage. But if I'm honest, we're not looking at. Spray and pray kind of approach. It is about quality versus quantity. And you'll hear this term now more than ever, you know, in this sort of digital age that we don't want to work with a bad customer and a bad customer means someone that probably you're not building a strong rapport with someone that you know is just not understanding your communication style. Maybe you don't understand that and their personality. So it might be that you, you, you, you bring it back. You reset yourself and go back to the beginning. Focus on who your ideal customer profile is. So your ICP and look at, you know, Okay. So how can I personalize the cadence and the touch point sequence to resonate with that? Because if I do this effectively, then I'm going to spend less time in the actual sales conversion stage. I'm the whole buying experience of the customer, which means that overall. You know, within, within the appropriate timeframe, I'd actually be making more revenue anyway. So, you know, I mean, there are psychometrics out there. You've got various ones that's desk. You mentioned the Gallup surveys. Quite good. There was a statistic that says, data-driven organizations are 26. Times more likely to acquire new customers. So it does show that advanced analytics does work. But when you talk about other personality and psychometrics such as , Ima that's, it, that's a color one. And, and barriers that is that there's one in organizations called Myra as well. It's good to work out, maybe what you and your team are, but you couldn't possibly work out what your prospects. So you do have to kind of , use your kind of own , initiative to be able to work out. And I think probably an Omni channel approach would actually work with that. You know, what, what customer experience are you giving your prospect? You know, have, if they haven't responded to you on LinkedIn, maybe on Twitter, they have , you know, responded to you or it might be that it might be on our own. Is it messaging or WhatsApp or slack, or it might be just by telephone. You know, even to the fact of that, you know, they might not have seen your email. So why don't you just book a color calendar invite in their diaries? You know, there's so many other different ways of approaching someone and building that relationship. Once you've worked that out, you can then personalize your sequence. You can't say that, like say we talk about HR that all HR individuals are the same. That wouldn't be appropriate, but you could base on, you know, looking at what works well, what touch point in your teed and sequence did you convert that , that prospect and it might be that you tried that again with, with someone very similar like-minded individual or business to that, that first prospect you'd convert into a customer. You know, don't reinvent the wheel here, look at what's working and then if it didn't work. Look at what's not working and change it. And you know, sometimes I've got business from personalized writing letters, you know, because you've actually taken the time you've written the letter, you personalize it, you send that to a client with maybe one of your branded products. And they really appreciated that, that personalized approach, because it resonated more with them maybe because they were like, you know, like you said, more of a , a key aesthetic , individual. And they, they, they, they liked the product I get and they can put that on their desk. So anyway, so there's, there's various different ways of. Ultra in your, your strategy and your process to personalize it. It's not going to come overnight. You need to look at data over time, over a variety of customers. But what I'm saying is when you get that right, or, you know, or a good strategy and process, the conversion rates will be higher and effectively save you more time with having not having to do all these quantity of cold calling all these video conferences, which sometimes don't need on.

mark_mcinnes: 19:44

Yup. And I can say these comfortably because you're in the UK and not the us, but I get frustrated with a lot of , sales trainers and sales experts who have got some great content. I just want to say that, but because they're based in the U S they are very phone orientated, you know, and I know, you know, in your area anymore, you don't like people still use the phone, but they're not at the same level as what the us does. So, you know, there's geographical , Or cultural calendars around the way that people communicate as well. So in a lot of cases, particularly with some of these technology tools , uh, you know, sales, enablement tools, they come preloaded with cadences that are very, very heavy on telephone. And, and I think we're setting ourselves up. If we don't think about that, and I know this is slightly different, geographical culturalism or geographical communication culture, cultural differences versus , personalities, but it's the same approach, you know, we need to try and get it to fit the people that we're trying to reach out to.

jamie-martin: 20:38

Absolutely. I mean, there is a, not a universal language. I feel within some of my clients within companies and especially global locations, they don't have the kind of same sales, communication and sales approach because they do it differently. I think if we can get a consensus together and approach your target market, then it should be a lot easier to.

mark_mcinnes: 20:58

So it's is one of the shortcuts and look, Tammy, you don't have to say yes if it's really a, no, that you don't have to agree with me. Right. So, but he is one of the shortcuts here. If we have a case that was reaching out over a couple of different channels versus, you know, an, a couple of different ways. So maybe, you know, text, audio, video as an example, direct mile , they're probably unlikely to respond to direct mile, but you know, they reply via telephone or text message, for example. So if we, if we went across. Are you, is it fair to assume that that's their preferred one? Like if we reach out across four different styles of outreach and then they respond to the video, for example, is it easy? Is it okay for us to go? Okay. They liked the video as a, as a response, or is that just dumb luck or is it not that simple?

jamie-martin: 21:42

Well, I mean, I would certainly probably use it as the next touch point you have with them. But like I said, once you've kind of engaged in conversation and you built your rapport. You can, you can, you can talk about it openly. What what's, what's the harm and say, you know, is it Okay. to follow up with another video message in our, in our next proposal meeting? Or would you prefer a different method of communication? You know, obviously if someone has been approached , via several, Yeah. Sort of communication channels then yes. They, they may feel that they, they will come back to you with that stage, but it might be that you are, I would agree that that is the, the, the communication they come back to you on. So Yeah. it would make sense to repeat that. I will, we'll say another point, you know, we're talk about personality styles. So there's a Myers Briggs, like a psychology test. And I know that, you know what I am, I'm sure you know what you are. You know, again, we're looking at organizations internally, especially sales teams play to their strengths. If you have more or the, like I'm an inf J type. If you have someone who's a bit more, you know, better at communication that may be , written or , copy based, then get them to play to that. Yeah. I'm have another south team. You prefer to jump on the camera or prefer to re-do all audio recordings and maybe it's restructure your sales team based on, on, on their strengths, and then resonate that and link that to the prospects you are approaching. And, you know, you will see that the difference in, in communication and building synergy with one another.

mark_mcinnes: 23:05

Yeah. Okay, fantastic. That's a good tip. So what do you think the biggest challenge is? Like what's the biggest mistake that people make from in your experience when it comes to this Salice paper, woman?

jamie-martin: 23:18

Well, definitely assuming, you know, everybody's different. And even if the one say, for example, one touch point, they come back to one and nine are necessary. Be exactly the same again. It's, it's about not trying different approaches, you know, like, so if someone hasn't accepted you on, on LinkedIn, so you don't go and try and approach them via a telephone or email or on Twitter, for example , you know, I could give you a, another tip on how this works. So , someone, I, I tried to connect someone on to one of my prospects that didn't connect that with me. They didn't know. So I follow them. And then I, I liked him, you know, supported some of their content. They earn an emotional connection with them. I we've moved all my requests. And then a few weeks later request re requested to connect with them again, and then they reconnected me. So it just goes to show that maybe it was that they needed to get to know me more personally. We needed a bit of, bit of a relationship about with. Be aware of who I am and what I do for before someone decides to work with you. So I think the challenges are not try in different techniques, not being aware of different communication styles , of your customer being innovative with your touch points. You know, when you say, send a video message , it might be that you you've researched their website, their lip, their LinkedIn profile, and you really customize your video. Based on that. It is about the customer. And as soon as they see you've gone through that effort, that passion, that interest to work with them, you'll you are really now connecting emotionally with the, with the customer and that type of communication style. And, and that's going to help you during the buy in journey with them.

mark_mcinnes: 24:50

And when we figured this out, what's the best way for us to communicate. Could we just mirror what they, you know, so if I, if you send me an email and you're saying, mark, I feel like we should be doing this, you know , You've invested a lot of my time, you know, like, so it's a bit emotional in a, so should I then try and reply back in an emotional mirror, that same level of, of emotion. And that feels like, and use the word, feel, that sort of thing where someone says, you know, I've been looking at this and looking at that and, and, and the, the language has a lot of visual components in it that we should respond the same way as that, as simple as is trying to do that, be adaptive to do that. Like not, not in a way where. You know, you you're taking the Mickey out of somebody, but you know, just trying to be present your side of the conversation in a way that's going to be more receptive to that. Somebody that's that's demonstrating that it's as simple as that, or is it a bit more difficult?

jamie-martin: 25:43

Yeah. I mean, absolutely. My great, great points that, I mean, the first thing is you've got to be yourself, so play to your strengths, because again, we talk about, you know, who is your ideal customer? You want someone who's has similar traits and characteristics and personality to you because you know that that that's going to play to your strengths. But you know, if you an introvert, you might act your, your target market might be , You know, so it depends on the, on the, on the context, but I will say Mirrorin does still work. You know, you're not gonna, you're not going to change who you are. You have to be real because the client will know who you are over time and you can't not be yourself. But I do agree that you should adapt your approach to mirror some elements of the customer. So if they are say, for example, Or written communication using emojis. It might be that you, you also use that as well because it resonates with them, but that, that also might be part of your communication style, but you don't notice until you've experienced some level of correspondence with the, with the client. But I do think in, in building rapport, you know, your, your prospects will become your future clients, your business friends, and the more you can understand them, They likes and dislikes are how they like to communicate. And, and, and, and, and adapt your approach to, you know, resonate with them. You will see a very strong synergy being built. And to the fact of, like, I gave you some examples earlier, you know, I know when. Individuals , and now people are coming back to me, you know, those days and times over that level of correspondence. So yeah, it is going to be a bit of , research and a bit of, you know, trial and error. So, you know, w also may be testing or something, but, you know, once you really get it right for that prospect, and then you've got to do it all over again for a similar prospect , or a different individual. Cause we do it all. We're all very different with our own individual differences, you know, from a psychological perspective. But, you know, that's, it's about building those long lasting relationships with someone and, and by doing all this personalized approach , and, and reporting this information, you know, on data somehow, you know, whether it's a CRM system, CRM system, or even on a spreadsheet, you know, it's going to really show the prospect that it's really important for you to them to build those business rules.

mark_mcinnes: 27:50

This is , been really interesting. I can't wait to , see if I can knit. So it's a bit light here in Sydney, but tomorrow I'm going to start when my emails, my communication starting, trying to adapt to mirror the way that the messaging Springs being sent to me. And see how that works. So, Jamie, I really appreciate your coming on the podcast. What if , people want to get more of you and you, and you know what we're talking about today, what's the best way for people to get in contact with you? Or are you open to people connecting with you on LinkedIn or, you know, his 20th thing? Tell us how to doing that.

jamie-martin: 28:21

Yeah, absolutely. You know , grateful anyone listens, addition to show , really appreciate being on the bus podcast. Mark, thank you for having me. Yeah, I really would like to connect , build my network with you , on , you know, globally. So LinkedIn is probably the best platform for me. Just search Jemima. BSC owns one and yeah, send me a personalized message. You've listened to us on the podcast show today and yeah, it'd be great to get to know you more.

mark_mcinnes: 28:44

Great. So Jamie, I'll put your contact details in our show notes so people can access it directly from their phone or for them laptop, wherever they're listening to the shock. But my thank you very much for coming on and helping us understand how to sell to personalities more effectively.

jamie-martin: 29:00

Thank you again though.