Stop your deals slipping in the last mile: JD (John Dean)

Have you ever left a client meeting with a handshake deal, thinking it was done and dusted, only to later realize it was only the very start of the process and not the end?
I know I certainly have; I also have the mental scars to prove it.

So how do you navigate this LAST mile in the sales process when we find ourselves in these situations? Better still how do we avoid them altogether?

JD, from Sales Director Central, is a guy who mentors sales leaders, business owners and entrepreneurs who are driving really important sales initiatives inside their organization.
 
He says more and more salespeople are falling over at the last mile than ever before.
In this show, JD is going to share with us some really cool things we can do to avoid making these common mistakes.

Also, you'll get to hear about how one of our price negotiations involved a guy threatening to drive his Range Rover through our office front door if he couldn't get a $20K discount.
 

JD (John Dean)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jdthekatalyst/

Email
JD@salesdirectorcentral.com

Sales Director Central
https://www.salesdirectorcentral.com/


Mark McInnes
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mcinnes/

VIP Mailer
https://markmc.co/salesmail/ 

Catch all versions of me here.

https://linktr.ee/markmcinnes
LinkedIn profile
VIP sales mailer
Tactical Pipeline Growth
BOSS Podcast
1 on 1 Consulting

Transcript

Mark McInnes: 0:05

Hi, thanks for listening. Have you ever had a big client tell you that they're going to go with you? That you've been successful in being put forward as the preferred vendor, perhaps you've even had the handshake of approval and then only later realize that there's still a whole lot of work to be done, to get the deal signed and get the deal. I know I have, I've also had more than one of these fall over because the internal buying process or the business case case being made internally by my deal champion, didn't hit the mark. Not only did I not get the deal in the end, but I looked like a fool to my boss for calling out that I'd won the deal too early. And I felt like rubbish because in my head I'd already started to spin the commission. So how do you navigate this last mile in the sales process? So guide from silence rec to central is a guy who mentors, sales leaders, business owners, and entrepreneurs who are driving really important sales initiatives inside their organizations. He says more and more salespeople are falling over at this last mile. In this show, Jaeda is going to share with us some really cool things we can do to avoid making these mistakes and falling over. Also, you'll get to hear about how one of their price negotiations involved, a guy threatened to drive his range Rover through our office front. Welcome to the boss podcast. My name is mark Munis. And thanks for listening. If you're a sales person or sales leader that wants to be better at selling and starting conversations with your ideal buyer, then you're in the right place. There are lots of podcasts on sales around, but I try to bring you a pack and AINS in specific content to really help those of us selling in these locations. Before we jump into this episode with JD. If you'd like to level up your sales skills, simply jump across to my LinkedIn profile and feel free to connect with me. If we're not already connected right there. In my featured section, you'll see a bunch of content you can use right away to be better at selling. Take as much as you can, if you'd like my best content delivered directly to your inbox twice a month, why not join my VIP sales? You can access that via my website, which is mark mc.co or also from my LinkedIn profile. It's just one email. Every fortnight, no spam, no rubbish, Gus great sales tactics. Why not join me in over a thousand sales professionals in that group. All right. Now let's jump across into the show with JD. JD welcome to the podcast.

JD: 3:16

thanks mark. Thanks for having me.

Mark McInnes: 3:19

Absolute pleasure. So JD, your LinkedIn profile says your, a sales director and mentor at sales director central. So does that mean you're like a freelance sales director or what does that mean?

JD: 3:34

Yeah, sometimes it's called being a fractional sales leader. So mark, we come into businesses for a day, two or three a month and we put frameworks in to help them drive their revenue. The low end of the market, and then the higher end of the market, we help people who are new to sales leadership, put a framework in, enable them to be better latest.

Mark McInnes: 3:57

Right. Okay. So is there any particular businesses that you work with? So is that like a, a freelance sales director? Right?

JD: 4:03

It's like, yep.

Mark McInnes: 4:06

Yep. Okay. And any particular businesses that you work with or is it everyone?

JD: 4:13

the general market is quite wide, so we do work outside it, but we spend most of the people. So we have 12 mentors up and down the Eastern seaboard and in Perth. And we work a lot with technology businesses that are trying to get a return on their investment at some level. But we've also done work in, in other industries. We've done work in financial services. In, in food, manufacturing, machinery, believe it or not. So it does apply to many different industries in trying to scale and grow their business. It's a lot of organizations have processes in place to win a deal, but by the, the bulk of time, it moves with gut instinct and the ability of the sales leader and the sales rep to drive it. We put frameworks in place to enable scaling.

Mark McInnes: 5:02

thanks businesses. Any particular size or.

JD: 5:05

They typically the lower end of town is somewhere between one and $20 million and then the corporate's going to another level. So with one particular customer working at the moment, we're working through both sales leaders as a team of over 40 people. And when. Well, the very effectively got to where they've got that they wanted to get. They, they had some aspirational goals of where they need to be in the next couple of years and realized that there was some things lacking from a framework perspective. And so we come and put in what we call Panisse, planning, accountability, methodology, indicators, Cades, and execution, which the thing that we sell. And then we enable them to, to, to facilitate that.

Mark McInnes: 5:47

Ah, so, so yeah, you help businesses with this sales strategy and sales and also the execution. So on one day, a week or two days a week, that sort of thing. So you basically are a senior sales leader for hire for those businesses that perhaps couldn't afford somebody with that level of experience.

JD: 6:04

Yeah, exactly. So if you think about everything as sales director does, there's a whole bunch of stuff, customer facing, and there's a whole bunch of stuff in the back office. We take on that back office response.

Mark McInnes: 6:15

Right.

JD: 6:15

we drive, we drive sales meetings, do deal reviews. We do territory planning sessions. We, we run all of the back office componentry to enable the business to be more effective. And in fact, in, in one particular customer they've just sold the business. We, we played a very large role in idling, the CEO to go and find money. And then he actually got the ball, the business sold, but we either work through the individual. So the, through the owner, through the founder or the appointed sales director, or we actually take on the responsibility ourselves.

Mark McInnes: 6:50

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, that's pretty interesting. Well done. Cool. So tonight we're going to talk about. W what you call the last mile in sales. So I love this because, you know, I was, I used to be a sales rep. That was the kind of sales rep and it took me a long time to change. But you know, when I got somebody to agree, you know, say EMR, you look like the we're going to go ahead with you. You know, even if I didn't get the purchase order at that second, I was off to the. You know, almost like the early celebrator. So I'm really looking for this has made to a T you know, a lot of the ways I felt like my job was completed when I, when someone said, yep. You know, it looks like we've got a deal here where right. I'm not big on detail, you know, overall it sounds, it really fit my personality. So I found this all pretty difficult. So let's talk about the last mile in Silas. Why, why is this important to us? Tell us a little.

JD: 7:43

So the, the the picture you painted is exactly. Well, if I go back and mockery, yeah. Sales is a really interesting. There's almost no one trains you other than the training programs that are available, you learn by osmosis. You learn by the people around you. Good habits, bad habits. You just, you just actually got through it. And I'm exactly the same as you in my early career. If someone said hi here, we're going to re you. You're being recommended. We're going to recommend we go ahead with you. I started to count the commission. I'm pretty good at maths. So I, I was PR I was pretty good at figuring out, okay, what am I going to buy with that money? I mean, I would come back to my boss and I'd say, Hey boss yeah, well, I've just got the verbal go-ahead. In fact, I remember a specific story where the CEO of a business we went and met. This was about 15 years ago and the CEO said to me JD, I think we're going to move ahead. I'm recommending an, our Mac meeting, their internal management meeting. We're going to buy from you. And so I left there, rang the CEO and said, Hey, we're in good shape. I've just had a handshake. We've had the nod. I know it hasn't happened for the last four months, but we're, we're definitely we're on the agenda. We're going to be high up and overnight 10 trucks broke down. I kid you not 10 trucks broke down and he rang me and he said, I'm sorry, 10 trucks are broken down with Dick goodbye, allocate the money to somewhere else. So how do you get. And in that example it was alternative use of capital, but how do you get an organization where you've won the right to be selected, which is the challenge, every sales person, how do you get them to do the internal sale? So, yes, the last sale we hope essentially people sell a complex product to an infrequent. So complex productivity is a SAS product in it speak or a product that has a layer of complexity to it. It's not a, it's not a consumable product. And an infrequent buyer, I guess, is the key here. So this person is actually not used to buying. So they're either not used to buying or not used to buying what you're selling, if that makes sense. So. If, if they're not used to buying, it might be a finance function. It might be a highchair function. It might be an it function. And they're not used to going through and looking at the thing that you sell all the time. So it's hard for them, or it can be difficult for them to navigate the internal business, the internal sale or what we call the last mile.

Mark McInnes: 10:13

So they don't have a defined process that they've done before that they, they can follow when they know.

JD: 10:20

Yeah. So.

Mark McInnes: 10:21

And the bar side.

JD: 10:22

Th th they're unsure. So there might've been one or two scenarios. One is they've gone looking for because they've got a business problem. Or secondly, they'd been told to go looking there on a fishing trip and, and, and in either instance that I really know how to navigate the existing business. So there's two really interesting stats that we have I spoke to the CIO and the CFO of both these organizations, deputy self. And I said an Optus. This was about four or five years ago, 80% of the business cases that were written internally. So that business case is written by Optus paint executives to get approval for project got rejected because it didn't make the internal rate of return or the internal metric for revenue and Exxon 85%. Didn't meet that metric. So. There's people that have decided how we're going to go with you. They've gone to go and get the money. And actually haven't met the internal internal metric or measure of how to get a project approved. It's a very high percentage.

Mark McInnes: 11:28

So, and typically we're, we're excluded from that process. Right. So if I'm selling to you and your let's who did you say.

JD: 11:36

Yep.

Mark McInnes: 11:36

so if, if I'm selling the opposite and you're my stakeholder, inverted, commerce helped this, where are we talking about buying new software? And you're like, yep, mark. I love this. I'm going to take these two internally to get this saw not off. What you're saying is even at that stage only two out of 10 and getting, getting through.

JD: 11:54

Right. And then, and then the gosh from the guy from Exxon was interesting. He says all of the 15% that meet the internal rate of return or the internal metric, half of those actually finally get. So it's even worse than that. So there's, there's, there's initial hurdle or gate, which most those two organizations, most internal business cases don't get approved. And then there's, there's actually getting the money. So the question for the last Marlene's, how do we help someone who's infrequently doing this, get a buying decision. And, and to your point, you said a minute ago, and I love the comments. If you cast customer, can I help you with the last bit? I will sign up all the time. Cause it's, it's our internal process. Right? You, you, you don't, you're not going to win that.

Mark McInnes: 12:42

Well, everyone says, you know, hold their hand, but no one ever does. Right. Every salesman in the world says, you know, to ask them if you can be there when they present. And I think I've had anyone say, yeah, that's a great idea.

JD: 12:55

It's it's interesting. There's a clod of mine that actually was the number one. Sales guy will wide for an American vendor. Who's now been bought by Workday. And he would say to Pete, he would actually start positioning the last mile early with salespeople, sorry, with with these prospects. And he would say, we often get to the final one or two and more than likely you're going to select our company. Cause it's very, very popular. We always get to that phase. How do I help you get the internal sauna? Cause that's, that's our biggest challenge. He was selling to the fondant. And then he would start asking questions early. Like have you got a business case like this approved? Can you show me an old one where you've got something like this approved? What would that look like? So he's looking, you know, we talk a lot in sales and in, in, in these sort of podcasts around adding value, how do you really add value for the infrequent buyer to assist in the process for them? So I guess that's the question I'm going to put to.

Mark McInnes: 13:56

So, but what I would do, so I like this because, you know, it's, you're going into the conversation with your buyer, with a plan and a strategy about the entire sales process. You, you know, instead of trying to convince them to take a conversation with you, then convince them to take a demo. You're actually going all right, I've got to look across the life cycle of this deal and be ready to head off, you know, the calendars. I know I'm going to. As I walked through the steel, but, but, so that makes good sense straight away. I love that. But how open are people to share that information with you when you were at the other end of the deal? You know what I mean? Like, sorry, if, if we're still being an evaluation and I say, well, show me how you get this sign off internally. My guess is I'd get some pushback around that. And I haven't got that rod or

JD: 14:40

You, you, you have, there's a, there's a thing we want to set up early. So not only do we want to get the positioning right. Of how do you add value to the last mile for the prospect? So how do I help you get this project approved? Because if you really want this thing approved, how do we help you with that process internally? So one thing is, understand the evaluation cycle early in. So if I'm talking to in discovery and we're having that free flow of information, and I'm asking you lots of questions, one of the questions gotta be two of the questions got to be, why do you have to buy critical event in a lot of methodologies? And then, and then secondly, what are all the processes between now and new signing off? What are all those steps in all those stages in your business? So then, then I, I, I email that back to the prospect because we sometimes talk about being a dermatologist in sale in, in this once you've got that, you're looking for change, right? Crawl yoga. I got freckles everywhere. And next week I'm going to go and get a couple more Kansas cut out, just a part of, you know, going to a dump. Nope. Once we've got the meth. Once we got the evaluation cycle mapped out. In fact, I heard of one case where a guy was X procurement and he went mapped a procurement cycle out and, and, and did it as a like a handout. And he would hand it to prospects and say, this is a soccer we typically work through. Can you show me how this differs in your business? I love that. You really adding value and you assign to this person, do you really get, you know, once you signed off and said, hi, I want it, do you understand really what that looks like?

Mark McInnes: 16:25

Yeah. And I, and I think I was going to say, it's calling their bluff by coming up with the paperwork and the mapping advanced, but I think it's showing authority and saying, look, you know, this is the system that we know works in most businesses just like yours, is this the way? So it's, it's low friction, right? So I think people, buyers don't want to share what their buying processes, because they think they're going to give away some sort of strategic advantage, you know, like, so if I tell JD how we make our decision, then he'll make all of these people. Feed that decision-making process and I'll give him an unfair advantage. But interestingly, that thought process from the buyer, I think comes after demo. And once you get into that negotiation stage, right? So in the early stage, they like, what does this do? What does it look? Oh, well, this is interesting. Yeah, we've got 156 trucks and you know, our biggest biggest problem is with guys going across the Nullarbor. So there's lots of compensations going backwards and forwards once I go. Yep. Okay. I think this software has the right guess the shadows got.

JD: 17:20

Yeah,

Mark McInnes: 17:20

at least that's what I think. Right. And then when you're trying to get that information at that stage, it's probably harder. So is that what you're saying? You get that information earlier on?

JD: 17:29

Get it early on. You started getting ghosted late in the process. So there, there are the there's three reasons why people are coming back to you. They're embarrassed. The process is completely different to what they thought or told you. And, or they haven't heard. So, so any one of those three days ago, you, so yes, you're missing, you're more disarmed early on the process. So for people listening to this, I'm going to give you a challenge. I'm going to give you an offer. The challenge is go to all your existing customers that have bought this thing from me, whatever you sell and ask them for a blinded copy for a copy of the business card. That they got approved and actually start a library of business cases. In fact, if the people on this podcast want to get access to one, I've got a business case template that I can get, which is I asked a corporate, can I, can you show me the business case template you write to get projects approved? So again, we're coming back into, how do we add value to that, that last mile process for the.

Mark McInnes: 18:31

Okay. So I'll put a link to that template in the bottom of the show notes. So if you're, you know, on, on iTunes or whatever, go to the shower and then the end of the link will be at the, at the bottom there, along with guide, I use LinkedIn profile just to make that relevant. Cool. Thanks Mike. That's a good chair. I appreciate that.

JD: 18:49

Cool.

Mark McInnes: 18:51

All right. So what else, what else do we need to look out for? What else? How else can we manage this last small section?

JD: 18:57

There's a really interesting exercise. I asked to a colleague of mine who's in procurement and he recently left one of the larger universities in Australia around the business process. We talked about 85% and Exxon 80% and Optus, and he was taking me through a procurement process. Again, which is all about the last mile, procurement legal, they're all in those processes. 90% of business plans, business sorry, account plans that we see have no mention of procurement or legal on it. And again, from a sales rep perspective, you need to be understanding that if not understand the navigation of that, but anyway, he said, That they wanted to replace this particular capability within the university. There'd been four business case written and every one of the made sense met the internal rates. They're all very valid for the organization. Everyone got this thing needed to be replaced. It was old clunky. So it wasn't a question of, does this make sense? The reason why the last business case got was not approved. We went through every internal sign-off from the last. The person who wrote the business case and the I believe it's called the vice chancellor, hated each other. So the reason that one didn't get approved was a pure personality conflict.

Mark McInnes: 20:21

Yeah.

JD: 20:22

and I'm not trying to scare you. I just understand what that looks like. Right. We, we use the analogy often with, with selling, we, you know, most tents have got four pegs or so. We probably want to put as many pigs in the tent, so it's just not going to blow away. So the more things we can control in, in putting pigs in the tent, it's the tents got 10 pegs with less likely to give you blown away. So we're not, we want to control the process as much as we can. They control the decision tough when we're doing tenders that as much as we can control and understand the process, then we're in better shape. Alignment and buying cycles and also understanding when they're going to buy.

Mark McInnes: 21:03

Yup. Yup. Okay. So, you know, what's interesting when you came on and we started talking about. You know, sharing this last mile concept, I was thinking you were going to say things like, well, you know, if you celebrate too early, like mark did and went to the pub, your mind switches as a salesperson. If I've stopped thinking, you know, oh, well there's 15 grand, that's a new mountain bike for me. Beautiful. Right. And then, you know, procurement comes back and goes, oh, I'm not sure that you've got the right sign offs. You know, I'm not sure, you know, an actual factor. You Mo a sales person and also the suppliers, mind switches for. This is a deal that we're trying to win to two. This is a deal that we've got and you start to look at these deals as loss of version, rather than benefit and people, as you know, people will do more to look to save something that they think they already have. So therefore, I'd be more likely to discount, you know, like if I think that I've already got the deal and I don't, and then the procurement or my psychotic comes back, cause I'm like, we just need another 15% and I've already given you 10, you know, ah, mark, we just need you to throw in an extra six months. I'm like, you know, and my mind now, if you'd asked that upfront on a bank, Right. But because my mind is flipped from, this is an opportunity. So, you know, there's lots of unknowns. It's one of, many to, you know, of celebrated decent of, of one it to, I've got to save it at almost any cost. And I think that's a procurement tactic. They're all going to all fall and fall in the, in the past, but that's what I thought you were going to highlight. So it's interesting that, you know, does this come into it at all or.

JD: 22:39

Th th there's a really interesting paradigm. We. We talk it, you know, I with sales director, central I'm sales director in six businesses. And so I sit in slash run every sales meeting for those businesses and the amount of time that the, the price lever is being pulled is out of control in sales meetings. Like it's, you know, Hey, we need to get it. We're coming up with the end of June. It's the end of September, whatever the quarter is it's we need to get this thing across. So I'm very fortunate. I sitting six meetings. I'm also super fortunate that I sit on some advisory boards in a couple of different businesses. And I've never been on an advisory board that says, if we get this for 10% less, let's go for it. Right. it's, it's like, if you think about the paradigm of that last mile from a customer perspective, what is the business value? What is the reason we're going to do it on all the advisory boards? I see. I'm not an operational or functional expert in their business. I'm there because I bring other value. So when, when the thing's going up, that those price things that every sales, you know, Hey, if we get them 10% off and we tell them that they have to buy by the end of the month, you know, we, I often say to salespeople if you're a prospect, you're going to say, Hey, mark, thank you for that discount. I'll use that when I feel like I'm ready to.

Mark McInnes: 24:02

Yeah.

JD: 24:03

Because we, because price is never going to be a reason to buy. In fact, you've never bought anything on a price basis in your life. Everything you've bought has some, you know, you said $15,000 mountain bike. I reckon a lot of people on this call, we reckon you can buy a mountain bike for about one and a half thousand dollars or maybe even $500, but again, perception of value and what you want.

Mark McInnes: 24:24

Well, everyone's got their boss, right. And that's mine. So.

JD: 24:29

Absolutely.

Mark McInnes: 24:34

Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And just going on that discount pace at the last, at the last minute, and I often talk to sales people and say, you know, if your sales manager, and this is not going to win me many sales managers, hearts here, but you know, you have a sales manager or the VP of sales say, come on two weeks ago or, you know, it's the end of the quarter. You know, what, if we give you an extra 10% off. You know, sometimes the best defense has go to the CFO and go, Hey, if I can get an extra 10% for this deal to wake up the next, would you be happy with that?

JD: 25:01

Yeah.

Mark McInnes: 25:02

cause that's 10% you know, top line is going to be a lot more than 10% profit, right? Depending on what it is that you're selling, but you know, so most, most CFOs are gonna say, well, I don't make the money so bad. The, you know, the, the VP of sales needs needs the numbers, but the. If you're going to discount it, just to get it into the gloss. The last two weeks of the quarter, the CFI is probably going to be much happier with the what is it? 30%, extra, 30% GDP. Not giving it away. If you get the deal two weeks later. Sorry.

JD: 25:30

I remember I remember deal. I was in a mark. I could not get access to the CFO of this. It's a public list listed. Company could not get access to the CFO for love nor money. Hopefully we're adding a lot of value along the way. I did understand the last mile early on in this deal. And I finally get access to the CFO of this business, right? So I'm in good shape. And the requested that my CEO comes to the meeting. So I then brief the CEO and say, Hey mate, we're in super good shape. I have not been able to get access to this guy. I did a call brief executive call brief. And I said we are in this meeting to negotiate. Let's not be fooled by what's happening or what's going on. We're here because the, here are the circumstances. And so, yeah, we're halfway through the meeting and the CFO turns to my MD. So clearly I'm just, I'm just the handbag. That's come into the meeting with it, with the guy who's going to make the decision. And he turns and says, can I get 20? What can we get off? And the CEO says, And I'm like, have you not read any of the briefing notes? Have you not seen any of the thing? And back in the Dima? When I was a rep, every time, every time I sold something of significance, I would buy something with the commission. You were talking about calculating commissions. And so I built a balcony at the house that I was living in at the time. And Neil's corner was the, there was five slots meeting missing on the, on the corner of the balcony, because that was the, that was the percentage discount that he, the revenue he'd given to this particular customer. And it almost kind of made me giggle that, that that was the, that was the reminder of so many times we're in a situation where. We're not talking about value, we're talking about price and the leavers we can pull.

Mark McInnes: 27:21

Yeah.

JD: 27:22

and when they, when they bought the house, the people that bought the house asked about the, about game with the missing slats. And I had to tell this story about my managing director.

Mark McInnes: 27:32

Yeah. Oh, they got, so I'll just share it with you and listeners, the, the worst price negotiation deal I ever entered into. And I'm pretty sure they won't be listening to this podcast. I won't name them, but they'll know exactly who they were. So they had missed the, the buyer had missed or had done the numbers incorrect for a project and they demanded a 20% discount. You know, we're talking about.$35,000 worth of gear, right? So they wanted the 20% discount. And the rationale was, if you don't give me a 20, 20% discount, which was over 20,000 bucks, I'll drive my land cruiser through your front window. He didn't get a discount. So, but he wasn't happy. But he did, we did, he did buy the stuff in the end. So there you go.

JD: 28:20

We're moving offices.

Mark McInnes: 28:23

So you've really shared some great stuff there. If people are trying to navigate or, you know, they're new to navigating this last mile, what's the one thing you, you know, they've listened to podcasts about a chuckle. What's the one thing that I need to remember when they, when they leave us, what do they need to know about the last mile? The most important thing?

JD: 28:42

I was going to come with two things. One is early, early on in the process track the bong. Sokal not the selling. We're so caught up in, have we done a proposal? Have we done a proper presentation track the buying cycle and the evaluation cycle and then understand how you're going to help the person you're connected to get the internal sign-off so understand how you can add value and help that individual with that process.

Mark McInnes: 29:09

Yep. Okay. Good stuff, man. I've really enjoyed having you on the podcast. You people want to get in contact with you. What's the best way for people to do that.

JD: 29:16

So the website is sales director, central.com. And my email is JD at sales director, central.com. And my profile, my real name is actually John Dean. So if they go to the profile, I think there's 190 recommendations on there, so they can. A whole bunch of people saying a whole bunch of nice stuff about me, which is a miracle.

Mark McInnes: 29:40

Yeah, I don't think I've given you one on either. So you probably don't. Well,

JD: 29:43

I haven't, I haven't hit you up at night. That's a miracle day

Mark McInnes: 29:47

all right, so it might, I really appreciate you coming on. I'll put all those links in the show notes. So people want to get access to you. They can just click straightaway from wherever they're listening to these podcasts. Right. Thanks for coming on the podcast, talking about the last mile.

JD: 29:58

and we made it through the last ball. I love it. Thanks, man. I appreciate your

Mark McInnes: 30:02

He is my thanks a lot.

JD: 30:03

Okay.