Referrals! You’re doing them wrong: Dean Mannix

The easiest way to grow your business & create sales today, even in the middle of a pandemic is through referrals.

Referrals are easier to talk to, easier to convert and are less likely to ask for significant discounts. Yet, we all know we are still not using them to their maximum.

Dean Mannix is the master of making difficult things in sales easy to for us to put into action.

He is also a sales Trainer extraordinaire and someone I really look up to in relation to sales skills.
Dean's been instrumental in framing the way I think about selling and my hope is that some of that Dean Mannix Magic - will rub off on you the audience.
 
Today. I wanted to talk about referrals for a couple of reasons.
 
1 - Very broadly sellers don't leverage referrals enough.
2 - Right now - sellers feel conflicted about whether they should be selling right now or being more empathetic.

So lots of conversations sellers are having are with friendly customers, easy people to contact.
This being the case, how can they try to derive a benefit from those easy conversations? - referrals.
 
Dean argues many of us are simply doing the wrong things to get referrals.
He shares some great ideas around how you can position yourself to be referred more often without all those negative feelings that are often associated with asking for referrals and then not getting them.


Dean Mannix
https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanmannix/

Dean’s website
https://deanmannix.com/

Mark McInnes
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mcinnes/

VIP newsletter
https://markmc.co/salesmail/ 

Catch all versions of me here.

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Transcript

Mark McInnes: 0:02

Hey, thanks for listening. I really appreciate it. Welcome to the boss podcast. I'm Mark McInnes. If you're in a sales role and you need more sales or you own a business, and you're trying to increase your revenue, this episode is going to be helpful for you. Have you ever noticed that people talk about referrals being the best and easiest way to grow your business yet? So many people were pretty bad at it. I mean, if it's such a well-regarded approach, why aren't more businesses kicking goals with referrals. Well tonight, we're going to take a different look at referrals today. It's less about how do you ask and more about how do you set yourself up to receive or ask for more referrals in order to help me through this I've Dean Mannix sharing his experience. Dean is a sales trainer, extraordinary, and someone I really look up to in relation to sales skills, Dean's been instrumental in framing the way I think about. And my hope is that some of that Dean Mannix maggot will rub off on each of you too, by listening to die. Dana has a special ability. The ability to be able to make complex sales strategies seem easy to take action on and the ability to really understand the roadblocks to success and how to remove them. Regular listeners will know Dean was on an earlier episode and he shared a great tactic and strategy around building out a framework on how to develop a new sales plan. It was like a DIY sales kickoff program. So if you liked this episode, make sure you go back and check that out. That was had enormous amount of. Before we jump into this episode with Dino, if you'd like to level up your sales skills. Head across to my LinkedIn profile and feel free to connect with me there for not already connected and right there more featured section, you'll see a bunch of content that you can use right away to be better at selling, you know, take as much as you can. If you'd like to get access to my very best content, I can deliver it directly to your inbox twice a month before. Simply join my VIP sales Mylon. You can access that via my website, which is mark mc.co. And you can sign up right there on the front page, or also from my LinkedIn profile. It's one email, every fortnight. There's no spam, no rubbish, just great sales value and sales tactics. Why not join me? And I've rested a thousand sales professionals in that group today. Now let's jump into the show on referrals with Dean Mannix. Dean welcome back to the boss podcast. Thanks for coming in.Hey,

Dean Mannix: 2:28

Markie Mark, its great to be here.

Mark McInnes: 2:30

Yeah, it's always good to have your own mind is such an absolute legend have really enjoyed talking to you because so many of the things that you present to salespeople and to me, you know, it's just pragmatic, easy things to do that make really good sense. And when you, when you apply them, they, they really create a big difference. Two sales results. And I think that's part of the reason why it's so popular. So for those people that don't know, you've trained people all over the world, you've been doing this for

Dean Mannix: 2:58

You like 25 years mark, nearly 25 Very

Mark McInnes: 3:03

So, so you certainly know what you're talking about, right? So

Dean Mannix: 3:06

that's what I'll put lighting down in here. Cause I'm looking older and we'll hack it every day. So that's why all I mushed duty.

Mark McInnes: 3:14

Yeah. Well, you're, looking at the video file, you'll see, we've certainly got locked down here. That's for sure. Well, since the guy from the gold coast, nice work, listen. The reason why I wanted to get us on tonight was partly because of lockdown. Right? So I want to have a chat about referrals because first of all, I think they're underused, right? So eight we've I say it like a broken. But I'm very sure that people aren't asking and setting themselves up to get as many referrals as I should be. But what I'm also seeing is that a lot of salespeople, while they're working from home are still got that bit of hesitancy about, you know, should I be selling, should I not be selling? And I know you and I both believe that they should. But the reality is they still looking for those easy conversations, right. So who do I know, who did I use to work with? Who do I currently work with? So when they're trying to draw business, they get on ways and an easy target for me to have a conversation. And I think the reality is that a lot of those conversations could sometimes result in an opportunity to start talking about a referral you are too, if you're too gutless and Vodacom has to doing outreach right now during lockdown. Right. So how can you let's assume that's correct. And, and try and promote. You know, some backbone or some, some frameworks I suppose, for referrals. So that's where I've got you in. Cause you're the guru.

Dean Mannix: 4:36

Nice. Very nice. Great. And look, if ever there was a time to be focused on this side of your business, which is, which is how do I leverage my existing client base as my outsource business developers. Right. If, if ever there was a time to be reflecting on that, thinking about that and actioning that it's now, because if you can't be spending time or you're not comfortable spending time making those outbound calls or outreaches going to networking events, being at conferences, doing all the things where you just happen to get lucky enough to come across opportunities. If you're not doing that sort of stuff, then the question you have to ask is where can I spend my time and be pretty. And the really obvious one that I think a lot of people are missing is inside my existing client base, you know, doing high quality retention activities, doing high quality needs analysis opportunities that expose opportunities to do more business deliberately. Introducing them to other people in my net. That as a result of introducing them will improve the quality of their business life, but also cause that referrer, that person are referring to be more likely to refer me all these sort of golden activities that we never have enough time for. Other things we should be doing right now. If we're not out there selling

Mark McInnes: 5:50

Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. And you know, a lot of those things that you've mentioned when you think about them, they sometimes second and third tier, you're like, oh, I'm busy selling. I'm busy writing proposals, you know, we're right now. I think those things are probably just as important. If you're not doing a lot of outbound, it means certainly.

Dean Mannix: 6:07

yeah, I'm too busy to be successful with less effort. It's challenging. It's a really challenging one and it's so common. You know, but it's, I look, I'll put my hand up. I always like to let people know when I'm perfect. I'll let you know. You'll be a long time waiting for that statement. So, you know, it's not, it's not that I knew. It's not that you and I are perfect. And we do this stuff every single day and we're super regimented or you're a lot more regimented than I am embarrassed me. And, But, but the simple reality is now's a good time. Just take a step back and go. All right. Can I start to reallocate time given the vacuum that this has created and can I move forward into the coming year, smarter and better? And Goodness,

Mark McInnes: 6:45

So why do you think that we're not doing that already? Like,

Dean Mannix: 6:50

I think that, you know, all right, so I'd suggest the number one reason we're not doing it is we don't have a strong association between doing it and achieving an outcome that's meaningful. All right. So the simple reality is, is that, is that dopamine, which is the motivational drug that flows through your brain, which causes you to take action is triggered off by the anticipation of success. And the simple reality is most people when it comes to referrals and re engaging in further conversations, have a very poor association between taking that action and achieving an outcome. Now there's a couple of reasons for that one. Is there they're there. Their desired outcome is very, very messed up. When you actually think about it from a relationship perspective, the only outcome that I've got in mind is I immediately get the name of somebody who's totally qualified that I can sell something to straight away. And if that's the attitude you take into referral conversations, then you're a huge part of. But there's also an added problem that if that's the only outcome that your brain is focused on, the probability of achieving that specific outcome is actually quite low, which means if you do a referral generation activity four to five times and fail four to five times you go, this doesn't work. What's the point. And you reduce the amount of dopamine that your brain creates when it thinks about engaging in referral activity. So the first thing is we have a terrible association. That's a combination of, of trying. And expect too much on the try and fail though. There's also another element to that, which is a lot of us are set up to fail because the strategy that we're given to ask for a referral is poor. And I, and I I've experienced this so many times. I get a sales manager saying Denny, my people need to be better at getting referrals. I've got these NPS studies and 87% of my clients. That people they're happy to refer, but they're not referring. So my sales people must be at fault. They need to be asking and I'm like, cool. All right. Well, I want you to coach me on how to ask and they say, what do you mean. Coach me exactly. What should I say to my customers to engage them in a referral conversation? And they're like, well, well you just kind of, what I'd probably say is I say, no, no, no. Imagine I'm your customer. And it used the exact words that you would use and, and they cringe. The sales manager starts to fall to pieces. Then they might come up with something like this welding given you being happy with my service, and you've had great success using our products and services. Is there anyone that you'd like to refer me to now? I would rather stick needles in my eyes than say that to someone that I have a great relationship with. And the reality is the same with your salespeople. And even if you are saying. It just, it doesn't fit into the context of a good relationship, because that is not the way that you would talk to someone that you have a great relationship with. And normally the delivery, even if you're going to site is terrible because no one practices it. And so it damages the cause it damages the conversation, it damages the relationship. So if that's the best, the sales manager's got, how can they expect their salespeople to be comfortable engaging in this. And there's a third thing, which is basically if I put you on the spot mark, like if I sit right now, mark, come on, mate. You're in sales training, I'm in sales training. I do stuff that you don't, you must have a client that can use some of my services. Come on, mate. Give me a name. What about Brian? Yeah, your Imagineering customer, not your real customer Mart. And so, because I put you on the spot and like we're in the same game, we should be able to go bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. But because I put you on the. Your Brian does not go to a place of, yeah, I've totally got the answer to that. It actually freezes up and says, I'll get to you. So we're not getting referrals because we've been set up for failure or we failed, or we feel incredibly uncomfortable given the strategist, using the strategies we've been provided. And we wonder why people are not asking for referrals. It's. Oh, there's one last one, which is classic. I remember doing a project and I've come across this many times since back in 2004, where once again, incredibly high NPS, considered the most relationship relationship bank in the marketplace and couldn't understand why their people weren't asking for referrals. But when we actually researched it around about 90% of their people felt that actually they didn't want a new customer because their service was suffering so much under the. That was currently taking place, that they were afraid of a new customer and especially one referred to by a happy customer because they thought they would probably drop the ball, upset the referred customer and therefore upset the refer. And they had an association that actually, this was a really bad thing to be doing. And the leadership had no idea that was going on.

Mark McInnes: 11:47

so was that a lack of confidence at frontline or the ability to be able to produce the

Dean Mannix: 11:53

I resolved. Exactly. And you'd be amazed. You think about it. How many of your people, when you ask them, how are you going? That first response is so busy and if that's your response and you've programmed your brain to tell yourself that you are so busy, when you then tell your brain, Hey, let's go and create a never ending stream of new opportunities in client. Your brain goes, dude, I've got to sabotage this and maybe you don't hit that problem, but you have a negative association with writing quotes. Oh my God. Proposals take such a long time. There are conversion rates, so terrible. It's horrible. Well, then you've got another negative association, your mind that says do it. If you go out and start using these referral generation strategies, you're going to have to write another 20 quotes this month. You simply can't do that. And your brain self sabotages, or puts it to the back of the. De-prioritized it subconsciously and you just kind of forget to ask. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of reasons.

Mark McInnes: 12:54

So do you think? Yeah. And do you think, fear of rejection comes into that as well? You know, so if I ask you for a referral and you don't give me one straightaway, you know, it's probably that your brain, if I've asked you is probably just in the freeze mode that mine was in when you asked me to sing. Right. And I'm like, oh, I can't think of anybody. Even though there's probably 20 people I could tell you to go and have a chat with, but then when you don't give me one, instead of my understanding that I'm like, oh, actually, Dean doesn't think I'm the.

Dean Mannix: 13:20

where's the relationship like one of the main reasons we need to. Yeah. One of the main reasons we need to encourage salespeople with portfolios of, of customers or clients to be asking is it's one of the best ways to gauge the relationship, because if you're uncomfortable asking. That's telling you there's something in that relationship that you are not confident about. And if they're uncomfortable engaging in the conversation, that's telling you, there's something that needs to be fixed in the relationship. So, so, yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of salespeople, suffer that rejection before they even ask. But don't deserve that they don't believe they deserve to ask. See if I say to you, mark, why do you deserve to be referred? What is it that you're doing? It's so special. the response?

Mark McInnes: 14:09

will you start your self doubt straight away? Right. So, I dunno,

Dean Mannix: 14:14

Well, I hope you can do better than that. Are you all going to have a session?

Mark McInnes: 14:19

locked me in from 1130 to 12. If you wouldn't mind for a conference session. Sorry. So how do we start? How do we start getting us brains out of these, like this loop of

Dean Mannix: 14:32

Yeah. Okay. So, so, so I think it's like any, it's like the start of any great processes, define a clear set of outcomes. All right. So you, you, you, you, you, you've got to sit down with your team and say, okay, great. Well, what do we, what do we expect our referral percentage to be given that you've got a hundred customers or clients. How many, or how many referrals would you need to actually fill up your entire pipeline for the year so that you didn't have to do any other outbound marketing is another way to think about it. Which of your 10, which, which 10 of the client of the, of your a hundred clients would be most likely to refer. Which father of your clients have the biggest and the most suitable networks that you could tap into for referrals. So, so better questions focused on better outcomes. As a starting point will often generate some really good conversation around. All right, well, where should we be spending our time? Why is this an important activity? Why does this need to be one of our key outcomes? How has that outcome linked to the outcomes that I get measured on in my KPIs? How could this actually save me time? If it new. So the first thing is you've got to fall in love with the outcome, right? The second thing minis is, and most people jump straight to, well then how do I achieve the outcome? But I think the better place to go to is, well, why haven't I already achieved this outcome? Like what, what, what are the barriers? Well, I'm an under, why am I not already doing this? And. And, and, and a full day of reflection on that question before you go into planning, how to achieve it will often identify a lot of these barriers and limiting beliefs and previous poor experiences, and challenges. Then I think there's a third question. Why do I deserve this outcome? So I think that's a really important question. So, so I'll throw it back at you, Marky. Mark, why do you deserve to be referred? Like just seriously, give me a reason why you deserve to be.

Mark McInnes: 16:24

Well, I think my clients get a great result. I get a result better than what they are expecting in 90% of the instances that they employed me, you know? And I think that's a, that's a, that's a good reason for people to be confident in referring me. And for me being referred to.

Dean Mannix: 16:42

absolutely. And I think that's a relatively unique thing in our market, which is pretty sad. Is the number of sales, trying to social selling trainers, people out there that are running training courses that are slightly educational, highly entertaining, but driving their results. All right. So, but here's the thing. If I made you keep a journal. Right called my reasons to refer me journal. And every single time you've got a result for a client. Are you going to post a testimonial or you got a great piece of feedback or you go to sales men just signed Marquette conversion, right on XYZ. It just went up or I got 27 leads last month. If you get that general, you'd start to think. You'd start to think of yourself as much more. Referrable right.

Mark McInnes: 17:22

Yes. And in fact, I believe you told me to do this. And five years ago, I started doing that and I actually have that now. So in my one, on one of my tabs on my OneNote, I've got my confidence story and I've got the confidence story because I've now helped so many people that's listed by. So if I want to, you know, say the people in manufacturing, I've helped people in fast moving consumer goods faster, you know, people have helped me, sexual sailing. People have helped with that band, you know? So, I've, I've lived this one.

Dean Mannix: 17:48

yeah, bang on bang on. And I still have to remind you. But I think that, you know, but I think that, and then they're really smart. They're really smart operators go. What can I deliberately deserve outs do? Sorry, what can I deliberately do outside of purely delivering results to deserve, to be referred? So you say, if you want people to be actively referring, you, you have to, you have to create an emotional imprint on them. You have to, you have to do something that is emotionally impacted. In their head and on their heart that causes them to have you top of mind and causes you to cause them to want to speak about you. So I'll give you a really simple example, like really simple example. One of the most successful, mortgage brokers that I know whenever she, puts in place a new line for new, for new client or a new client or an existing client buys a new house. Okay. Changes at the house. She buys them eliminate. And she handled live is that lemon tree within the first week of them being in the house, if they buy a unit, she delivers it in a really nice pot with room to grow and instructions on when to reproach, if they want it to get to the size of growing lemons. Now. So she turns up with a lemon tree, which is a gift, but guess what? That's the gift that keeps on giving because as that tree grows in their backyard, every time they pull lemons off it, when am I most likely to pull lemons off at when they're going to be drinking Coronas with friends at the bar,

Mark McInnes: 19:12

Yeah.

Dean Mannix: 19:12

Right. That thing becomes part of their home part of their life and is a constant reminder of her and her association with where they live and how they live.

Mark McInnes: 19:25

Yup.

Dean Mannix: 19:25

And funnily enough, she gets an insane amount of referrals and gets called the lemon tree lady. Right. But she occupies that space emotionally. In the Hudson and the hotspot clients with a very, very deliberate and very, very smart strategy.

Mark McInnes: 19:44

Yep. Yep. I don't think that would cost a lot either.

Dean Mannix: 19:47

No, I, I think if, if the first thing that comes to mind for everybody out there listening to this is, but how much does that cost then? Your you've got a very bad association with investing in a healthy pipeline and zero stressing relations.

Mark McInnes: 20:03

Well, the reason I say that is because most people go, oh yeah, I've got some really good clients I can put on a bottle of grinds. Cause that'll be impact. You know, people will remember that, you know, but

Dean Mannix: 20:11

well, they'll remember it, but it's drunk and then it's gone. It doesn't truly create an emotional imprint. Right. It's just like where you must've been a lot of money out of this.

Mark McInnes: 20:20

And it's not terribly thoughtful. Yes. Correct.

Dean Mannix: 20:22

not thoughtful and see, this is the thing. Okay. Now, now maybe if that Grange was, was, was this year's grind and it was like, Hey, keep this for five years and drink it on the fifth anniversary of the day. My and Maggie, if they got a note two weeks before to say, make sure you drink that bottle of Grange to celebrate five years. I don't know, but you could probably do a hell of a lot better than that because see, it's it's we get back to fundamental principles around reciprocity, right? What drives true reciprocity, because referrals are genuinely at their core driven by combination of reciprocity and. So reciprocity and the science behind reciprocity tells us that the more tailored the gift and the more surprising the gift, the greater the impact it will have on the feeling of reciprocity and the sense of obligation to refer. So, so the, the validity of the lemon tree is that it's highly tailored to the fact that you bought a new house, plus from a consistency perspective, it lives in their house, which means if, if your gift lives in my house, then I must like you. And then it gives gifts of lemon. Every season, which means it keeps generating reciprocity. And that's why I love that as an example, but gifts doesn't have to cost money. If they're tailored, they don't have to cost money. So one of the, one of the best gifts I can think of that I ever gave was a client told me that I would do it going to New York for their 30th anniversary. And I said, look, have you got a nice restaurant to take your wife to, for the actual dinner? And he said, no, I haven't figured that out yet. I said, leave it with me. I was doing a lot of work in New York. I had a particular client who did massive amounts of entertainment with their clients. So I rang up the executive assistant of the CEO of this client and said, I'm really hoping for a favor. And here's a funny one. When you ask people for favors, they actually, it deepens the relationship. So I basically said, can you help me out? I've got a client there that they're doing the 30th anniversary with their wife. And I was hoping you'd give me a recommendation on a nice restaurant. She said, let me come back. She emails me back the five best, most romantic restaurants that the, the, the website, the contact details and the name of the concierge to speak to and says, Hey Dean, if you have any problems getting here, Just give me a call all sorted out. So I then on send this email to my client saying, Hey, by the way, he's five recommendations, the websites, the phone numbers, everything else. And the client comes back, goes, that's amazing. They ring me back a week later. So I'm actually having trouble getting in. Can you help me out? I ring my sister, the executive assistant. She goes, don't worry. Leave it with me. Dino organizes them a great table. Okay. And that was the gift that kept on giving. Believe me, I've got a lot of work over the next five years from that. And that costs me nothing. Now some of you are probably going, yeah, but dang, I don't work in New York. It's like, well, God wake up. Right. And, and wake up to this mentality. The more you focus on being valuable, across many different aspects of the relationship that don't just relate to flogging your product, the more valuable you become and the more referrals. So this could be as simple as just as, as, as if somebody's moving house saying, do you have a good cleaner in the area? Because I've got three strong recommendations from other clients that moved into that area. It could be as simple as, you know, as just something aligned to your product set. so, you know, these, the more tailored.

Mark McInnes: 23:48

So I find a enormous amount of, conversation starters on LinkedIn can start by sharing connections. So let's say for example, you and I had just become connected. We've clearly got a bunch of things in common, and then I say, Hey, do you know what I can say? You're not connected to. You know, Kane McGlaughlin well, Tony Hughes, do you know those guys at all? And what would you want me to introduce you to? I can put us in a group message and say, you guys should connect. All right. And then as the new connect and you, I, okay, well, that's pretty valuable. And you know, again, it doesn't cost a lot. It doesn't cost you anything, but it's a real conversation starter and it sets you apart and people feel like you said obligated to then go, Hey, mark, thanks for that. You know, and before you know it, you've got a conversation going.

Dean Mannix: 24:26

but it correct. It also creates a dynamic on the relationship. It says part of being in a relationship with me is me referring to peop you, to people that I think would be valuable for your network and from a reciprocity perspective, you go, well, if that's part of being in the relationship, then I probably should do the same thing. And, and going first is a great strategy. And once again, you know, so, so if, if you're in a business that has a portfolio of a hundred clients or a hundred customers, whatever you want to call them, if you put down 20 of the old customers on a white board and you get one of your colleagues to put 20 of their customers on a whiteboard and you get another colleague to put 20 of their customers on whiteboard, and then you just brainstorm, who'd like to meet home. If you can't come up with three to five introductions out of that conversation, then you're not trying to. And some of you are probably going patina. Don't have time to do that. The reason you don't have time is because you're fighting so hard for new business because you're not generating referrals.

Mark McInnes: 25:21

Got it. All right. So look, I wanna ran the stop cause we want to bring some really good high quality content in short periods of time. What's the, if I'm now going okay, are you right Dane? I should be doing more of these. I'm not doing them. What's the one thing people should go and do now to set themselves up to be better for

Dean Mannix: 25:38

So the one thing, one thing now is, is really reflecting on what have you got to give? What have I got that makes me, makes me deserve referral, but then the other question is, do I have the how to handled? Right. So do I, do I feel genuinely confident in relation to engaging in a conversation around referrals? And I think the big distinction here is mark he's rather than doing a, how to ask for a referral, they should be asking, do I know how to engage in a conversation around referrals? So the distinction there is market. You've got a referral for me. Mark, can you come up with anybody that I should be talking to? Right. That's that's asking for a referral. I don't strongly recommend that versus a referral conversation is something as simple as. Hi, Dane, you know, is there anything I could be doing to make it easier for you to. Now, this is not immediate pressure on you to come up with a name I've just opened the door to a conversation around referrals. It could be, you know, you and I talked about the agenda item and this is strategy. I've had a lot of research on this strategy, but basically, one of my clients over in Canada, who is a financial advisor, showed me a spreadsheet where he used the strategy for a year and he could connect$225,000 of recurring annual revenue. This one strategy. So if you do an NPV on that, that was about a two to two and a half million dollar strategy. And all it was was before his annual review, which he was doing anyway, he would include in the agenda as item three or item four potential for introductions bracket, brackets, referrals, closed bracket.

Mark McInnes: 27:15

Okay.

Dean Mannix: 27:15

And he would send an email at two days before the meeting saying, bill, just not even realize to autumn for, you know, if you could have a think about who you could potentially introduce me to, I would really appreciate it. And he said his best meeting with someone came in and said, look, I've got eight names and phone numbers. Can we go through those now when they got to agenda item three and he could constructively link that agenda item to$225,000 of annual revenue from brand new clients that year through pure referrals. the hat is important.

Mark McInnes: 27:46

Yeah, well, that's cool. That's a very good story. So, and this is what makes you so special day now. He's like no one Tom's had the 10, if we got somebody on to talk about referrals, I go, yep. I've got six things to talk to you about, you know, different ways to ask. I think you've provided so much more value, so, so if people want to get more of the medics or the, or they'd like to get in fact more info on referral strategies and stuff like that, how can I, you know, what's the best way for him to get in contact with you? What would you like him to do?

Dean Mannix: 28:12

Hit me up@daneatdanemannix.com. In relation to what did you go on referrals? We do have a specific program. Now that program we rolled out in one client, re researched exactly what the results were in eight weeks. We generated, over 12 months of pipeline for that client. So in that scenario, in that scenario, that was 10 and a half million dollars of approved loans and two and a half million dollars of deposits done and dusted, eight weeks from a baseline of zeros. So that program I know could have a major impact. If you wanna roll out across the team or do it personally, that's probably the best way to reach out to me to say, Hey Dean, what have you got related to referrals? Bunch of the links on my website are broken at the moment, cause we're going through the back end and fixing it all up. So you can try and buy it online, but if you don't have success, just, just give me a

Mark McInnes: 28:55

Well, I'll put your email address, et cetera, et cetera, in the show notes. So people can find that, Dana, thanks for coming on the bus podcast. Another great episode. Thank you for.

Dean Mannix: 29:04

take it down and Sydney she's ready.