Series 13 Pilot Episode - The Full Supply Chain Story and Meet Your New Hosts

Welcome to a brand new series of the QMS podcast and a fresh way of telling the story of Scotland’s red meat sector 🥩

In this pilot episode, we introduce your new hosts, Kirsten Williams and Robert Ramsay. With a wealth of experience across farming, consultancy and the wider industry, they bring real insight, practical knowledge and a shared passion for the sector.

Together, they’ll be guiding you through this series as we explore Scotland’s red meat supply chain, from farm to fork and everything in between.

In this episode, you’ll hear about their backgrounds, what drives them, and their perspectives on the challenges and opportunities facing the industry today. They’ll also set the scene for the series ahead, explaining why it’s so important to understand the full journey of red meat production and tackle some of the common misconceptions along the way.

This is just the beginning. Over the coming episodes, we’ll be diving deeper into each stage of the supply chain, bringing you expert insights, real stories and practical takeaways from across Scotland.

🎧 Join us as we follow the journey from farm to fork.

Here is a link to all episodes of QMS's podcast https://qmscotland.co.uk/news-media/qms-podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the QMS podcast. You'll notice that there are some new voices on the podcast now. So we are your new hosts. So I'm one of them, Kirsten Williams and Robert.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

I'm the other one. I'm Robert Ramsey.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

So we have got a really exciting series lined up where we're going to do from farm through to fork. So there's a huge amount to cover within the series. But we thought before we got into the meat of it, that we would just let you know who we are and and effectively meet the host. So Robert, who is Robert Ramsay?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yeah, so I am an agricultural consultant and beef and sheep farmer from Ayrshire. So we farm just at Loudoun Hill, just on the Ayrshire-Lanarkshire border, for the for those of you that know the know the area. So yeah, I do a bit of consultancy off-farm and a home with got 50 suckler cows and 400 big news, a few pedigree shorthorns, and uh a weed dairy beef bit on the side as well. So a yeah, bit happening. I always wonder, does anybody really want to hear about my system? Because I've spent quite a lot of time interviewing and speaking to people who've got really exciting systems, and then mine is actually quite dull.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

But do you know hearing about different people's systems is how you learn as well. So I'm gonna probe you and I'm gonna ask you more about your system. So I'm gonna start from the back. You said you've got a little bit of dairy beef, so let's start with the dairy beef and then we'll get into the other cattle and sheep.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yep, so we got into we actually bought a wee bit of land down the road, which wasn't ideal for running cows and bulls on, so we basically upped the sheep numbers a wee bit and then wanted something to manage grass a bit. And at that point, the dairy beef story was you you could buy a dairy calf fairly cheap, fairly affordable, and turn it into a reasonable store. So I got in tow with a client and friend who he ran some fleck v Montbelliard type cows, and he basically his bottom end cows went to Belgium Blue, so we we were buying those calves, and for quite a number of years we're doing quite well at them, you know, it's a good turn at them. However, the the price he can get for those calves now, I just can't quite get my head round having to spend that kind of money. And I sat and did some numbers actually and I can actually winter a cow cheaper now than I can buy a calf, so we've come to that kind of tipping point. Also, there's more to it than that. You can keep more calves in a smaller space and there's a place for it. And I do admire those beef and those dairy beef systems, but we've upped our sheep numbers a bit and will certainly be doing less, if not maybe stopping doing that, uh, in favour of probably more sheep.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

So, sheep then, what breeds are you working?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

So it's a kind of white-faced mongrel type type uh type of thing we're working with. We started off with clin use, um, and then they've got some Aberfield in them. We dabbled with a Highlander for a wee while uh which I know I know uh some of these breeds will be turning people off. I think we've now got quite a functional U with a fair bit of Aberfield inner, and we've actually started so hogs this year, and some Gimmers are lambing to an ultimate, so uh Graeme Loft House um easy care in there for hogs anyway, they've been fantastic, different world, uh, and certainly looking forward to seeing what what lambs out of gimmers are gonna do as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

So uh so you describe it you describe it as a white-faced mongrel. What's the aim of the system? What are you trying to get to?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

I I'm aiming for a low-cost system. To be honest, so my my my money's made on the road, so we my consultancy business is my diversifi diversification, so I need to the system's built around me not being here all the time. So happily now in my new career I'm here a lot more, so I'm I'm more involved in it, but I really don't want to spend time working with individual sheep. So I'm perfectly happy working in pens of sheep and working in in sheep in numbers. You know, there's actually nothing better than having a day ideally in the sun working with sheep, but when we start treating them as individuals, I hate sheep. So my my goal, I suppose, is to have that, and it's not a hands-off total easy care, don't care system, it's a lower input while retaining that high output kind of job. So I I suppose what I'm trying to do is the same as what most other breeders are trying to do, you know, is just trying to kind of hit that sweet spot between what labour we've got making the most of grass, minimal use of feed, which we grow a bit of forage crops for cattle and sheep as well, so we can you know make use of those and really limit the the lorries coming up the road. Um so yeah, basically just trying to create a simple system. And I I'm I appreciate I've also probably had a simple system when we had pure clean news, and now I've come made it all complicated by adding lots more stuff in. But it's also quite good fun that mixing it up a bit and making change.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

So when you're adding loads of new stuff in, have you got an eye on data? Or uh what what are you managing data wise?

SPEAKER_00 5:46

It's funny, this is me when I've this is Warts and All. Um so my level of data recording for my business is nothing like as good as it is for a lot of my clients' businesses. So my at the moment, data wise, if you've got a lump out the end of your ear, it means you've done something wrong and you go down the road. So we we cull pretty hard. Um and to be fair, now the the cull use a product, you know, she's a she's got a real value and a real role to play, so I don't I'm not sorry to see them go. So anything that's causing problems it gets its ear notch and gets away. So that I know that's not it's not conventional or what we automatically think of as data, but it's my main data point, if you like, is on that shader. Obviously, we're weighing lambs and we're we're doing we're I suppose we're kind of dabbling in you know monitoring growth rates a bit, but you know, it's a it's a fairly straightforward system. So certainly data going forward, it's going to drive us all, you know, and and it's getting easier and easier to get that data. I just need to it cattle-wise we've done a bit more, but certainly in the sheep world we're we're still pretty pretty straightforward.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

I think it's always a it's always a challenge, isn't it? Time. Um like you've said you've got a diversification that is off farm, that time will be limited, so then having the time to analyse and and such like will be tricky.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Um Well our in the consultancy world we sell time for a living. And sometimes you sell out, you know, sometimes you just don't have time. So there's things there's things I'd love to do. So my the the the pinch points for my both jobs, so Ajax in the spring, lambing and calving in the spring, they both the all three jobs happen at the same time. So like the likes of what would be great for my sheep system would be to go and performance record everything, tag at birth, monitor them right through, but basically until the second half of May, I can do we do it work really pretty hard at Lambing Time, and that's why I'm feeling pretty tired just now. But work pretty hard keeping everything alive and getting the getting things off to the best start, but I don't have the time to invest in that that bit of the moment. And that's again, that's an excuse, but it's something I need to work on and adapt. Maybe I'm lambing too early, maybe that's there's there's easy options, but uh certainly there's plenty, plenty to go at.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

You're maybe lambing too early, but there is a ticking time bomb of a deadline of the 15th of May for the other thing you do too.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

So it's yeah. And I'd really don't want to start I have you know have had crazy thoughts of can you start lambing on the 16th of May, but you you can't. You know, it's it's uh I suppose you you probably could, but I know. I don't I don't fancy finishing up for the Highland show.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

And cattle as well. So how many suckler cows have you got?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah, so there's fifty fifty cows. Um so they are shorthorn anguses, probably with a heavier lean towards the shorthorn. Um we've got a um really sm a small pedigree herd of shorthorns, which I've actually just I've got four cows and started them again. Back to the time thing. I'm not looking to sell or to turn out bulls to sell at two-year-olds. Um in Stirling it's not gonna or other markets are available, I should say, but um it's not where we're at at the moment. But basically I wanted to breed an ice wee bring bring some heifers in, breed a nice wee herd of cows, and I've had 15 consecutive bull calves out of my four pedigree sort of cows. So get into pedigrees, you'll never be poor again. But to be fair, they make they make they run pretty commercially and they they make decent stores. They've been fine. But I've got another tooth calf this year, so pray for a pray for a female.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

And for your cattle, then you're selling store cattle.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah, yeah, so we're selling year-old stores, or primarily year old stores. So cows are outwintered or mostly outwintered. Uh usually on kale this year we grew a bit of fodder beet as well, and so the cow we're lucky we've got a fairly dry farm, high rainfall area, but fairly dry underfoot, so we can uh we can carry cows outside, so those cows run a basically October till about the tail end of February, beginning of March outside, and then they come in to calve at the moment. Um that it's just we're a wee bit later growing grass, so that that kind of fits the system.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

And for being your first year of having them in Fodder Beet, how has calving gone?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Uh well enough that I could get it wrong by boasting about it just now, and uh it could all go wrong, but uh yeah, so far so good. They've been calving away really quite nice. We probably the type of winter we had, we had a pretty wet interesting winter in hindsight it probably was quite a kind winter for stock in the southwest. Like it was we didn't have we didn't have any snow. A few days of a little snow, we had some frost, which is great for that system, but it was mostly just a bit of rain, quite mild, not too bad. And cows came in just just about perfect condition wise, you know, they were they were fine. We ran some younger, ran a uncalved heifers and a like calved heifers on it too, so they came in a wee bit sharper, they were just you could see them just changing a wee bit, um but so far so good. We've got another well be two-thirds of the way through Cavan and we've they've gone fine, but you know how it goes, you don't say too much.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Touch every bit of wood that's around you.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Exactly. Exactly. So that's my system. My s I and and well, some of it, and I suppose our systems will become more apparent as we go through and speak to other people as well. So our experiences and things will come out. But what about your story, Carson? Where are you where are you based and what do you what do you specialise in?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yes, so I'm up in the northeast in Aberdeenshire. So um me and my husband we farm a tenanted unit near Tarland. Um we have got cattle, so we've got both um pedigrees and commercials. So we've got short horns are the pedigrees, and then it's blue greys that we work for the commercials. We've got pedigree and commercial sheep as well. So the the sheep we've got Veltexes is the main of our pedigrees. And um the crosses, we have got Suffolk mules to cheviates to blackies, so we've got a bit of uh a bit of everything. Um we got into the farm about five years ago and um came with the Suffolk mules, but it's definitely I would say over over time we've we've moved to the the smaller, kind of low, lower maintenance type of type of sheep. Um we also do Christmas turkey production as well, so that all starts in July, the countdown to Christmas starts scarily. Um and then we do bed and breakfast pigs as well, so um we do from wean to finish with those. We also have some um arable crop as well, so we grow spring barley and then forage crops as well, so we outwinter the cattle and uh the sheep are on um crop system as well. So um there's quite a bit going on going on at home, and then just like yourself, Robert, I'm a freelance consultant as well, just in the spare time. So um so yeah, plenty plenty going on. And interesting, like you're saying that that you're on uh your cattle and sheep had quite uh easy winter. It would be quite the opposite for for us up here. We had a huge amount of snow, a huge amount of rainfall in January, but it's really nice now that we're in the spring months, the countryside is changing, grass has decided to go green, which is lovely, um and it's it's nice to see to see the end of it as well, isn't it? It's and the new life come with spring.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

It's funny how it works out because you're when you were in the depths of it all and we were we were pretty dry when you were getting it really wet, and you kind of sit all smug in January and February when things are quite good. And then we've had the slowest wet, you know, just a terrible spring so far. So we we're on we're on now day two of dry weather. Um so like so we're now we're at the moment we're mid to end of April and there's very little ploughing done, there's very little graining, you know, it's just it's interesting how it goes, and I think we need to keep that in mind when it comes to when things are really bad, you know, it does change, things do get better, and also when it's really good, maybe we just shouldn't get depressed, but when it's really good it won't last forever either.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So um I think that's what's quite interesting about us both being podcast hosts for this, is that we see different sides of the country, I'm in the northeast or in the south southwest, and climatically they are very, very different. Um and we've we've definitely seen that this winter, haven't we?

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah, no, it's that is amazing. And uh historically over the last lots of years, there's been it's not that far apart. It's a maybe three hour drive, but it's uh it can be polar opposites. What about so on your your pig story, Kirsten, what how does it how does that system work? So we we don't really in this part of the world there's not a great deal of pigs, a great deal of pigs at all, but contract rearing pigs, how what's the what is the operation?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yeah, so it um it it works quite well in that that we supply the the sheds, the labour and the straw. Um then we get the muck back, so that's that's quite nice. We produce the straw ourselves and um we get the the muck back for the all essential nutrients onto the the arable ground and then um it it stays here. We're we're quite big fans of it only leaves if it's going on four legs, don't like nutrients to walk off otherwise. So you know we try to to feed our own feed, use our own straw, um try and keep as much as of the nutrients in there as possible. Um like bringing in importing fertilizers and such, like yes, yes, we have to do it, but it's it's expensive, and we see just now with problems worldwide with conflict how quickly prices can go up as well. So it fits quite nice that that you know we get we get that muck back as well. So um yeah, they they they work quite well. We almost call it the fertilizer factory, to be honest, because um they're they're great at converting converting their feed into something that's that's really quite valuable for us. So no, so no, it works, it works well. Um and I guess that's that's with this podcast series, we are looking at the supply chain. And red meat supply chain, there's so many different elements to it, isn't there? And um there's some parts that that we know very well. We've we've spoken of our our own businesses at home and our experiences that we understand the producer. There's actually a lot in the producer, isn't there? From your your breeder through to your feeder, there's nutrition, there's the vet side, there's there's a there's a huge amount goes in there. But I think myself, the the bit I probably don't investigate enough or understand enough is what happens on the other side. So I I get it, you produce the animal, you take it to the abattoir, you take it to the market. It's the whole part, the food chain part, the cooking, the chefs, the retail. I think that that side of it is something as me as a producer that I maybe don't understand enough. So I'm quite looking forward to getting into this series and delving further into that and and I guess just taking people on a bit of a journey with it.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah, I think it's interesting if you if you speak to people at the market, you hear I think at the jet this is a generalization, but I think everybody is the same that we've got that. Farmers are pretty well read, pretty they understand they're part of the of the chain, and and that would be the the producer, the the store producer could speak to the the finisher. The feedback story there would be if we can improve that it would be great, you know, if there's a better understanding, but at least the breeder understands what the finisher's doing. Thereafter we don't get it, you know, we don't or we don't necessarily understand what's happening. Like at the moment the story is that beef is maybe not dear enough for the a finisher and too dear for the consumer. And we hear that you know that people just stop buying it. We need to know that from someone we we need to hear what the market signals are and what's actually happening further down that chain, because there are things that are happening, like pack sizes and and portion sizes, and you know, there is demand for the product that we're producing, and we I I certainly am very interested in knowing what happens further down that line. I'm also really looking forward to chatting to people that you know are at our end of the supply chain, but certainly that latter part of the story I think is really quite quite exciting and hopefully something that we can capture. I think it fits a podcast, I think a podcast is a great way of having that chat when you've just arrived in the pub, you're nice and relaxed, you're nice and you know, you're fairly open, and and I think we can without having a fully scripted interview, and you know, you get a lot more out of people and tend to get if you can get people relaxed, you tend to get a bit more information out of them. So hopefully we can um have that relationship with people over the next few weeks and months.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah, and I think I think it's just farm to fork, it's it's an expression that we hear a lot. It definitely is an expression we hear a lot. Um I guess it's it's understanding what happens from farm gate to the plate. Um and I don't know, but the the thing I like about podcasts is it's hearing the stories and it's it's the people that are behind it. It's not it's not all about the science and the why and why does this happen, why does that happen. It's the people. And I think that's that's what makes agriculture what it is. It's a character, it's that's that's within it. Um yeah, I think it'll be really nice just to to tease out probably some some uh stories along the way of yeah, just just some really good people with within the industry, all the way from the producer right to the end consumer. And we've got a plan just now, but as we talk to people, the plan's probably gonna go out the window, and we're probably gonna think, oh, we need to we need to bring them in now, or we've listened we've missed a whole link here, we need to to pull that in. So um yeah, looking forward to it. I I think it'll be it'll be good.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah. Can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

So I I guess um yeah, just just follow us along for the for the journey through through the supply chain, um, right through to to what gets delivered on our plates and to hear from And the people behind it.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

So our next episode will be with a producer, so with a store producer, a a breeder. And we'll really look forward to getting the ball rolling. So today is only about or this podcast is only about it's a starter for 10. It's only a a Wii intro to us a and a bit of context for us. But the next, you know, our next episode will get really in about it and get the get the ball rolling. So hopefully you'll join us for that. And if you're enjoying these podcasts, it would be good if you can subscribe to the podcast and follow us along the way.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Great stuff. Let's get started.