Quality Meat Scotland Podcast

Series 13 The Supply Chain Story - At the Farm Gate with Murray McConchie

• Quality Meat Scotland • Season 13 • Episode 2

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Join us as Murray McConchie shares his journey of modernising a traditional family farm in south-west Scotland. In conversation with Kirsten and Robert, Murray discusses his farming system, the role diversification has played in building resilience, and how he is adapting to environmental and market challenges. From practical insights on livestock and land management to opportunities beyond the farm gate, this episode offers valuable ideas and inspiration for farmers looking to strengthen and future-proof their businesses. Plus, hear the unforgettable story of a 100th birthday celebration featuring a zipline...

Here is a link to all episodes of QMS's podcast https://qmscotland.co.uk/news-media/qms-podcast

SPEAKER_03

Hello, welcome to the QMS Podcast. I'm Kirsten.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm Robert. We're your host for season 13, taking you on a journey through Scotland's red meat supply chain from farm all the way through to fork.

SPEAKER_03

Across the series, we'll be chatting with farmers, vets, processors, chefs, and lots of people from behind the scenes, sharing real stories, insights, and experiences from across the industry.

SPEAKER_01

Whether you're working in the sector or just interested in where your food comes from, there's something here for you.

SPEAKER_03

And don't forget to hit subscribe and follow us in socials so you never miss an episode.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so today starts off our farm to fork journey. So we start off obviously with the farm with the primary producer, and I'm really pleased to be welcome to be joined by a good friend, a and beef and sheep farmer from the South West and Murray McConkey. Murray, how are you?

SPEAKER_00

Very well, thank you very much, Robert.

SPEAKER_01

Excellent, excellent. So I'm I'm sure you're wondering why uh you've been dragged into this, but I'm certainly very grateful and excited to get in about your story. We've had a wee bit of chat before this, and certainly there's lots and lots to go at. So could you give us a bit of an introduction in terms of where you're from, what you do, what what you're all about?

SPEAKER_00

So um I'm a beef and sheep farmer from uh South West Scotland down near uh Gatehouse of Fleet. Uh, we have currently farm about uh 1,300 acres, which is actually reduced as we speak to about I think it's about a thousand acres with uh some of the the hill grounds being planted. My brother owns about a thousand acres of the hill ground, and uh he is currently in the middle of planting some. So uh we've got about 100 beef suckler cows, and we're running about 450 ewes, which are a mixture of cross ewes, down the low ground, some blue faced Leicester pedigrees, and some pure chibiates, some kept pure, some are crossed, um, for breeding our own replacements. And what's your um all what's your cow of choice?

SPEAKER_01

What's the what's the head made up of?

SPEAKER_00

Um, so we used to buy a lot of suckler um dairy cross, limousine cross type uh cows in, and when I came home, um you know, every year we'd be buying sort of 10 10 cows in. Um, and then I just thought to myself, you know, we're crossing all of these with Charleys, why are we not trying to breed our own um replacements and you know improve our um herd health uh so dramatically changed predominantly now to to the Angus? Um one for easy calving, two for you know um replacements was a big one. Um no dehorning, which is great. Uh and and trying to make it simpler, you know, get to with calving especially. I can get to 10 o'clock at night and I can go to bed, and I can wake up at five in the morning and know that anything that has calved overnight nine times out of ten is up in its feet and sucked and it's running around that field. Um whereas with a Charlie, you could wake up and it would be half a calf hanging out of the back of a cow and the cow would be lying in the ground and it wouldn't get up again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So not always, but you know, it was uh it's funny how that Charlie story has actually changed. You know, the Charlie breed have done a lot of good work and and fairly improved the job they're doing, but yeah, there's nothing beat beats what you're talking about, is that more relaxed, more straightforward a system. And then you've got the hassle that the challenges of breeding your own and selecting your own, and you know, it's a different job altogether.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's just me at home. Well, don't get me wrong, my dad's my dad's here, uh my dad's 81 now, um, although I think he still thinks he's about 50, um, and he runs around thinking he's invincible, um, which is great, and you know, it I I couldn't be doing without him. But um at the same time, I am aware that you know it's got to be manageable. Um, with with ideally just myself, you know, I'm I'm trying to breed uh replacements with temperament is key, you know, making sure that they're milky, making sure the easy calvin, trying not to get in, you know. But if I go out to a field and have to walk a cow in a cabin or a heifer in a cabin, um, you know, last thing I want to do is 10 laps around the bike, um and and then still not get in, you know, which has happened. But uh, you know, these things for me are quite important.

SPEAKER_01

And and it is worth saying we can still get that hassle with a black cow, too.

SPEAKER_00

Oh hundred percent. No matter what. You think they're all all nice and you know, and scratch them in the back, but uh no, you you still get still get one or two. Doesn't matter what you do. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So I first met you, I think, in I was thinking back, I think it would be would it be 2018.

SPEAKER_00

I think so.

SPEAKER_01

I think through through rural leadership, which was all all good fun. Um so I've seen what your how your business has changed since then to now, and it's there's obviously quite a lot has happened, and we'll come into that just shortly. But I think what would be worth doing at this stage in terms of introduction to what what Mossyard's all about is maybe to look back the way a bit, is to go, you know, what where did the McConkies come from, or where did where did your business evolve from, if you like?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so um our our business uh or the McConkey family started farming as tenant farms at Mossyard in 1911. My great-grandparents took it on then uh as tenant farmers, and then I think in 1956 we got the opportunity to buy by Mossyard. Um and within that timescale, my grandmother had already started her evolution into diversification. She'd put a small caravan site on. Um we're very lucky in our location coastal, beautiful beach here. Um and so that was where the the sort of I suppose agro-tourism journey started in our business. Um, and it bolstered, I suppose, a small income for a small farm at the time. And my parents came to Moshyard um and have sort of grown that side of the business as much as the farm. In 1970, we bought a thousand-acre hill farm at Lagan, and uh my dad and his brothers um farmed farmed that uh alongside the the tourism side. Um and then I suppose taking that forward to the next generation, which is myself and my two brothers. Uh, my big brother came home in 2001 with his wife or partner at the time, now wife, um, they've taken on the caravan site, and then I think I came home in 2003 um a fleeting visit to to say hello to my parents, and uh my dad was flat on the floor, begging me to go and buy him a packet of JPS from the local shop because he'd hurt his back. And uh I think at that point I realized that I wasn't really going to go anywhere, and uh, you know, here we are today, uh 23 years later, um, still here. Um then that that business changed again when my little brother came home, um, and then we got uh we got involved with uh Caroline Miller in 2015 when she came a chap in on the door, and Duncan was desperately keen to figure out how we're gonna split the business up into three separate businesses. So through the the agritourism uh monitor farm, we did a succession planning, which was uh very interesting project, and at the end of that we came out with three separate businesses. So at that point, I came out myself with mossyard farm, which is 250 acres of uh of ground, but also within that split I get the free use of the hill ground, so I get free use of uh the thousand acres of hill ground. Um and that that is really where we're at today. However, that is that is changing as we speak. So every day it's uh it it's sort of it's it's getting it's getting trickier because uh as I said, my little brother's planting um 200 uh three 250, 300 acres of that hill ground at the moment. So there's 90 acres of summer grazing for heifers and replacements gone. So we're just trying to figure out where we go from here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Carsten, you're doing a bit of mediation stuff and succession stuff with our ACBI, you know? You could be the person to go through.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I was just thinking there, buddy, it's it's really interesting listening to that because you've obviously had a lot of um history there with family. I think would you be fourth generation that's a farming moshard then?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I'm fourth. My kids are coming up fifth, so it's uh you know, it it's it's quite a feat to you know, there's quite a lot of history there going backwards.

SPEAKER_03

Um it's amazing as well that each of you have managed to make a business out of that area of land as well. Which would be quite unique, I would say, that all three of you have managed to to stay there. Um and you can kind of with with the story you were saying and the the diversification especially started so long ago, that that would be quite unique as well, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, you know, um I suppose the the the the the agro tourism were the or the the the or diversification in and going back to you know I think in in the day war broke out in 1945, my grandmother had 80 touring caravans, my grandparents had 80 touring caravans uh in a field on the on the farm. And uh by my dad says by by tea time you know they'd all gone because war had broken out and that that was it, you know, everybody scattered and went back to to where they came from. But um, you know, in in those days it was it was not the done thing, um, really diversification. You know, you're a farmer, you know, what you what are you doing? But um they've my my certain you know my granny and my parents have have been very open to to the changes that they've had to to witness over the over the generation, certainly since the three of us have come home, you know, it's been I suppose monumental in some respects of the change that they've had to witness and and accept.

SPEAKER_03

Before we go back to speak about livestock, can can we just acknowledge the legend that is your granny and tell us a little story about why she's a legend, Muddy?

SPEAKER_00

You know, she's just been um so she's she's just been this sort of almost royal member of our family. She she sat out so latterly they moved up to to Lagan and lived in the hill uh and in in the farmhouse up there, and they overlooked everyone else. And uh she she was just this sort of matriarch in in the family, and everybody sort of looked up to her for uh approval of whatever they did, and uh but she was just this character, you know. She she could she could bite, but at the same time, if you pushed her button, she would purr like a pussy cat. And she loved nothing more than seeing the the changes and the developments of the the businesses. I think the the biggest one for her was when Duncan Little Brother went and built a wedding venue 50 yards from her house, and you know, for a 95-year-old to have to try and get to sleep to Abba's dancing queen on a on a Saturday night, um, then followed by 10 minutes of fireworks, followed by some drunken bloke peeing in a flower bed uh as he's trying to stagger back to his lodge. You know, she's she was always this uh, you know, and everyone morphed to the kitchen, and you know, she made fresh pancakes and scones daily until she was about 99. And uh, you know, she she uh she died in I think it was 2021, 2021. Um and it was just like you know, as I said to you before, she was she was someone who deserved almost a royal send-off, certainly in our eyes. Um, and uh, but because it was in COVID, you know, it was uh literally strictly immediate family. But uh we had we had one hell of a send-off for even if it was just 20 of us. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Phenomenal to have such a driving force behind the business with such things, but so much respect from everybody as well. So she's uh she's certainly left a legacy behind her, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely, and any definitely anybody that goes down a zipline on their hundredth birthday is that's that's up to them.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, I know. Uh and and to come off it unscathed at the bottom, um, even if it was with a little bit of assistance to to lower her down, but no, she enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01

It's good, and she would must have been you know very proud to see what had happened because it's the a farming business is interesting, like it is that multi-generational story that you do obviously if when it when things go to plan, somebody does retire and look back on what's on what's ha happened and what's happening, and you know, it must be it must be really brilliant to see that that business, the way that business has evolved.

SPEAKER_00

Um it you know it's tricky though because people you know different generational views are the uh so many people, I mean I'm one of them, don't like change. You know, I like to know sometimes when I you know, or certainly a dead, uh, you know, know what you're doing, know what's happening when you get up in the morning, you know you've got this, this, this, this, this, and then you get into a structure, and it's it's so difficult to get out of that. So I suppose for someone um who's had a structure around her life um for such a long time to to witness the changes. And when when I say changes, I mean the monumental changes, they weren't just um you know uh first of all, the zip wire, for you know, then people segueing past her window, and then you know, as I said, a wedding venue, and it's like, but you know, she she loved nothing more than a wedding family to come and sit on her veranda or her her outside and just talk to her about how proud she should have been, and and you know, she was just that that's what she just loved about you know, everything morphed into that.

SPEAKER_03

So you've you've obviously got a lot going on within within the business. You also have like down down here in the southwest gatehouse fleet, um you are very close to the sea, and that in itself is uh unique selling point for your diversification side. But what challenges does that actually create for you as a livestock farmer?

SPEAKER_00

So I suppose uh first and foremost is uh you know your your your business having to make sure that you know everything is watertight, you know, you do not want slurry running straight into the sea, you know, you've got so many people running around. Um because we have a public access through the farm down to the public beach, as uh in in my grandfather arranged with the council when he bought the place that they would they would upkeep the the farm road and allow people access to the beach. Um and that is the same today. But in doing that, you know, it it can create all hell, certainly in the summer, you know, when you're trying to make silage, when you're trying to move cattle, when you're in the middle of lambing, when you and you've got car upon car upon car up and down the road. Um I mean, this whole host of problems. It's interesting how many farmers um you know I speak to, and they just say how I don't understand how you can actually cope with with the number of tourists you have, certainly in the peak season, floating around. Um, so I suppose that you know health and safety, which is a a massive, massive word at the moment, is uh is one of the key things, you know. You need to foolproof everything you do. Um but you know, you've just got to look at it and and try and make sure all the all the all the boxes are ticked when you're doing anything, you know. I mean, I'm trying to move all of my livestock handling, my sheds, slowly, gradually moving them away from the being so close to the the shoreline. And uh over over well over time, I'm sure there'll be more more sheds will go up, but they will be further away from the shoreline, which again has to be, you know, and it's um so many things that you've got to be gotta be aware of being down here.

SPEAKER_01

It's probably not not dissimilar to what we our our hill, you your beach and our hill are probably the honeypot that people are heading towards. And yeah, the thing that frustrates me, particularly this this time of year, is nothing, you know, people we are we are now very accessible, you know. Folk can phone you, text you, uh message you, what whatever way they can get hold of you, and the least we thing at Lamont time or something that just needs out the shed for a chance, and then you get the oh, it's you know, it's just a it's quite frustrating, and and it's frustrating when you get lots of people that they entirely mean well, yeah, but they stick their oar in. Or the worst one is when you get the someone comes to the door with a wet lamb says this this this lamb's mum ran away. You've got to pretend you're really grateful. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you'll get people that come from the city, like I had about three years ago, and I found a girl running around the field chasing the cows, and I was like, Yeah, terribly sorry, but you know, can you what what do you think you're doing? She's like, Oh, I love cows, I love cows. I've just wanted always it's on my bucket list. I just want to stroke a cow. And I said, Well, you know, I really don't recommend it out here. I said, um, you know, I said, but please, you all they're gonna do is they're gonna turn around and say, Enough's enough and run back at you. I suggest you get back in your car and you you maybe go back back to the city and uh we'll we'll discuss this another time.

SPEAKER_01

So amongst friends, Murray, so what did you actually say?

SPEAKER_00

I I was I I was very polite that day. I don't know why. I think I must have uh been at a barbecue or something. Uh but I I did by I managed to I usually send my dad because he's far more diplomatic than I am. Um I I tend to my my fuse is a little shorter than his is. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But while while it brings challenges being in such a picturesque area and having so much public, it must The opportunity as well to really show people that this is how food is produced, this is what we do, this is how we manage the land. It must be really quite rewarding, some some aspects of the opportunity as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 100%. Um, for for myself uh and my wife, um you know, we've been farming down here. Well, I've been home since 2003, and we've never once had the you know, nobody's ever thought, right, okay, well, we should be selling our our produce. You know, you've had you do get every year, you somebody will come in and say, have you got any burgers or you know, meat off the farm? No, no, no, no, no. Um and it was really in the last sort of four or five years that we started thinking. I mean, we'd gone down the diversification route further, myself and my wife, um, and you know, so we built a bit more tourism, uh the holiday accommodation, and then we're sort of scratching our heads, and actually my wife went off and did the rural leadership, and um she came back, and she's been like uh sort of um oh, she's been like the possessed ever since, and uh it which has been wonderful, but she's completely and utterly the driving force um behind the the changes that we're making just now. You know, I'm at sort of 49.50. I'm just like just you know, kind of needs to have a wee bit of time off, isn't it? You know, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, we're we're gonna start a farm shop and uh we're gonna we're gonna start selling our own meat. And I was like, okay, that's a great idea, great idea. I'm I'm keen. Um and then so you know it it sucked our own arms and legs from there. But you know, it's amazing how many people love the fact that now they can come and stay on site and they they have the opportunity to buy burgers, sausages, steaks. Um, they can come and eat a hot sausage roll, they can come and eat pies, um, you know, fresh bacon. You know, I obviously don't have a coffee plantation yet, uh, but you know, they can come and have takeaway coffee and sit and meet the farmer or my father.

SPEAKER_01

I already's dad, because he's more chat.

SPEAKER_00

Who, you know, in the peak season is absolutely useless because he just sits outside the coffee shop vaping and chatting. And it's just like, Dad, you know, you're blocking the blocking the public road here. So I'm chatting, I'm chatting. But uh, if you want any lamb's tail, there's no hope. No hope. So our our field to fork sort of um that that's really where we we started thinking about, you know, we need to be looking at selling more produce direct customer. You know, we I'd mentioned it in the past to um my I think it mentioned it to some relatives in the past, and and they were very much like pointless, don't do it, don't do it. And I was just like, why not? You know, and then you know, but this I suppose the old school is very a lot of them are stuck in their own ways, and it's like, but I find that quite I don't know, it's it's um anyway. We just said we're you know, we're gonna we're gonna try it. We've got our prime location, we've got in the peak season, we've got my brother has a caravan site, um, and there can be three, four hundred people, I suppose, including kids, on there at any one time, and we've got the public access to the beach that can bring in any on a hot day, you could have four or five hundred cars up and down this road um on a good day. So, you know, it's like, well, let's let's you know, so Amy's been the driving force behind setting that up, and uh yeah, it's it's gone from strength to strength. We're three years in now to setting the farm shop up.

SPEAKER_01

And do you think at the moment, so we're obviously in an interesting place at the moment where certainly store the store cattle you would normally be selling or you are selling are worth more than they've ever been worth before, or certainly in the last couple of years they've been flying. Are you at a point where do you think you're better off financially selling your own stuff? Or do you think it's spreading risk? And where do you think we're at with that?

SPEAKER_00

So that's quite an interesting one because um the way that the structure of the business works at the moment, it's it's run all run under the the the farm. Um so that the farm shop isn't um so it's not its own entity, so it's still part of the farm. So on paper, yes, the accountant will do the the the moving of uh, but you know, I'm not selling my my 2,000 pound heifer to the farm shop. Um cattle, I suppose, are different because we're only putting two or three through the shop a year at the moment. Um so I suppose I suppose that's still, you know, you think of it, that that could still be four four to six thousand pounds a year. Um lambs, I think we're looking at I think the last count we were putting 20 last year was 20 lambs through the shop, and then we're putting about 16 pigs through the shop. So the farmer shop has started buying the pigs recently, which is quite good. I have to feed them. That's not so good. But so but the the the upscaling of of the I suppose so a 2,000 pound heifer, I think I think we can probably make around about four and a half thousand pounds out of her. You know. Um so I think and and certainly in the pig side, so initially when we were killing and putting the a fat pig, so we we buy wieners and we're taking them on to fat. And initially, when we were were selling them, I think you're looking at about 500 pounds, um, so it's very little profit in that. However, we've started turning them into so we've started cooking the roasts and turning them into pies, making sausage rolls, doing a lot of mincing. Last last price, I reckon it's 1200 quid out of you know what would have been five if you're just selling it. So it it's turning that produce into something better, and then and and and trying to sell that. So it's always evolving, but you know, we do other nights, we're hoping to do some burger nights this summer, so yet again, you've got a burger at X price, let's cook it, let's sell it, try and make it as good as we can, and and you know, add value to that that product. So it's um there's a lot lots of things going around in in our heads, um exciting things.

SPEAKER_03

If you've got the like say the caravan site, so if people are looking for that burgers, sausages, steaks, yeah, how are you coping with carcass balance?

SPEAKER_00

In what respect? How are you making sure that it's it's all sold and that you're not left with well so we've got a year, obviously, from a lot of it's frozen, so we get our um two weeks of fresh, so we try and hit the hit the market, so we'll put uh a heifer into slaughter on beginning June, so it it comes into the farm shop at beginning July-ish. Um we've got that two-week window to sell fresh, other than your burgers, which have got a shorter shelf life because they're they've got generally preservative flavourings, things like that in them. Um then they then goes into the freezer, so you've got then got a year from that date to to to sell it, and we so anything we don't sell fresh is is kept, but we also work locally with um the Galloway Food Hub, which is a sort of organic producer. Um almost we don't sell the beef through that, but the lambs and pig uh pork goes through that. Um so throughout the year, um there's a hub locally that people people are buying from from us. So we're we're selling, and you know, we don't we make sure that if we have a freezer full of meat, we're not just continually um topping it up. You know, we we do try and uh and and keep an eye on on you know making sure that things are moving. If things weren't moving, we wouldn't be doing it. So it's uh we put a a beef, we put a heifer in just before Christmas, and there's nothing left. I think um you know it's it's like well it says, well, where are all the burgers that we we set aside for for the burger nights? Oh no, they've all sold. So it's uh it's quite an interesting one.

SPEAKER_03

And earlier on at the start, you were talking about the cattle system, and see if I can remember, I think you said you were looking for an uh animal that was had ease of calving, had a good temperament, and you you rallied off pretty much the ultimate suckle cow, I think, with all your all your wants and desires. Um that that will lead, I guess, to a low intervention animal. But from a welfare kind of perspective, do the customers ever ask? Do they ever ask how has this animal lived? Has it been out in a grass system? Do you get those kind of inquiries?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, we get a lot of interaction. Um, especially in the shop, if if people see, I suppose, you know, Amy does a lot on social media, a lot on uh Instagram and Facebook, and well, my daughter's suddenly taken on the TikTok um arm of our business, which beyond me, I have nothing to do. I just get that I have to be in the photographs, um and and people come and and they like they know you, they're like, Oh, hi, this is Farmer Murray, and it's like, you know, how do you know me? It's like, oh, we've seen you in the videos, it's like da-da-da. But you know, a lot of people come in and ask about tell me about your beef, you know, it's like okay. And I will talk to them about, you know, about the you know, 100% grass fed. Well, I say 100% when they're when they're young stock, they'll get a minimal amount of uh concentrate just to keep them growing in the shed, but um we don't certainly not got creeps out that are they're just getting stuffed full of cake, you know. For me, it is about creating something going forward that will be 95% grass-fed. Um, and you know, why why wouldn't you want that? It's about having, but it's also about creating something that is going to be you know tasty. It's uh and the feedback we've had so far has been been very, very good. Um I don't think we've had one customer come back saying uh that was bloody awful, that was as uh chook as uh uh you know an old uh cast cow that you've had for you would certainly have that feedback, wouldn't you? Oh well, you know, but I think it's good to get this feedback. You know, I if someone comes in and says, Oh, I know that that was terrible, you know, please take it off. You know, you would go and try some yourself and and you know, make sure that it was just their you know their dentistry uh that is causing the problem problems.

SPEAKER_01

And when you're selecting, so if you're looking towards breeding, so in terms of yeah, are you now so it's obviously still a small percentage that you're killing yourself. Yeah. How focused are you on the store ring and what that guy's needing, and how much of it's about the farm shop?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, you know, nine ninety percent of it is still about the store ring. Um well, actually, no, I would say I'd take that back. I would say it's about 50-50. I I I'm looking for a good replacement as much as I'm looking for that um that that carcass. Yes, I'm looking for for a good bullock um with some great shape if I can. Um but at the same time, it has to be e fairly easy calving. I'll take a gamble. Um I don't like to go for you know, like I'll go for a minus five and and the the calving ease. Um, you know, it doesn't have to be plus five, plus fifteen, whatever. Um but at the same time, when I'm looking at a bull, I'm looking at a you know, it has to have a bit of length, it has to have that shape, so that that the females have to have that bit of length. I I'm not into creating a smaller and smaller and smaller cow. I like to have a, you know, for me, it's it's having a good sized cow that will hold a good calf and give a uh easy birth. Um, although some of these cows, my god, they can the Anguses can, my god, they can put the fat on with with you know, and you that's that's where you've got to be a bit careful because some of them just it's the odd one. But again, this is where natural, you know, you with selection, you know, you're getting these cows that are putting condition on themselves. The calves are doing, they're they're not doing a you know, they're not doing so. You know, well, she's away, and that's where with the computer system I use, I'm looking back through and checking mothers and mothers, mothers, and you know, for for selecting heifers, um, making sure that the plenty, milk, temperament, feet, all these things are really key. And then, but for at the same time, you're looking for that that bull calve or a calve that's gonna have a resale value. It has to be so it's a bit of both in there.

SPEAKER_01

And do you have any more now you're now you're a finisher as well. Do you have any do you speak to the guys buying your cattle any more than you used to, or are you targeting, you know, is there anybody doing something similar that's actually now buying your cattle because of what they are, or not quite at that stage?

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't think so. No, not we're not at that stage yet. Um it's I mean, the people that are buying the stores, you know. I mean, we're hitting uh we're predominantly autumn calvin, so about 70 cows are autumn calving. So our our main sale is end of September. Um and you know, when you're going to these sales, there's there's a lot a lot of cattle, you know, you're 1300 cattle getting put through the ring. So I'm not targeting yet um any any particular buyer or or trying to target other other shops or or you know get into retail that way.

SPEAKER_01

So but yeah, you target the highest price.

SPEAKER_00

That's unfortunately that that that's how it you know it does come down to that. Yeah. Um again, the but the way the system I'm running, I'm I'm trying trying to put less uh less um into the the animal itself. I'm I'm certainly not force feeding these out these cattle on creeps, these uh they have to come on naturally. And the trouble is with an Angus calve, if you start putting too much cake down in front of them, they just go and you know, fatten just like that, and and just too fat. Um and certainly the heifers, you know, they'll get a little dribble uh uh concentrate through the winter, but other than that, I don't want them too fat because as soon as she put a calve in them, uh you know, you're just having all sorts of trouble with your your first calves.

SPEAKER_03

So you say that you're predominantly autumn calving. So I take it you've got two herds of you, and why why predominantly autumn?

SPEAKER_00

Um because I suppose it's it's the system that I've been I've inherited, um but we lamb sheep in in March and April, so there's always been this little um pocket of uh 30 cows that we've had in the hill ground that we've we've uh calved um in in the the the spring alongside doing the lambing. Um I I don't know I've been trying to figure out if we could tweak our our system or our shed system that we've got to allow us to um to either not not so I I I'd probably still go autumn. Still probably go autumn. Yeah, I think the inputs are slightly still probably slightly higher because we're buying straw in um for bedding them, but the shed, the infrastructure's there. I've been lucky that I've you know inherited that over over since my dad put it in. Uh I'm I'm modifying it slightly by putting scrapers and things like that in, but um, you know, so it it works quite well.

SPEAKER_03

The costs will be higher, but then you'll be gaining that and a heavier calf to sell, I imagine.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So the the the the back end calves tend to be that little bit heavier. So I think this this spring we had um we had a pen of four away, uh 450 kilos at 12 months, 13 months, and then the other the next pen down, second pen in was about 380 kilos. So it's quite a big difference in weight. Um so yeah, but you know, the back end cavers I think would average about 440 kilos last sale we had. So that you know there's quite there's quite a bit of difference, quite a bit of income difference as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And you're selling them through the live ring rather than private, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I have I've gone down the private route in the past, um, or through an auction mark but privately. Uh so I've done that in the past, mainly when we had Charleys. I've tried with uh the Anguses, but they've never really been offered. Um I've always been better selling them in the ring. Uh I I I would I would certainly you know never say never. Um but I you know having an auction mark as a locally is it's you know it's pretty vital.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Without these uh without these commodities, it's you know I think it's gonna be a really tough job.

SPEAKER_01

Where the dairy industry is at at the moment in terms of you know you've you're tied into a contract to one uh you know one buyer, you're you're it's all or nothing. You know, yeah, we've yeah, no, absolutely clients, neighbours, friends that have lost contracts just recently based on their postcode or based on their litres or based on and actually having that live market for us, I agree. I think it's so important just to have that. If you don't want them, someone else will buy them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And you know, the the number of livestock marts in in Scotland, I mean it's it's there's there's far and few between now. Yes, we're lucky. We've got two or three in the southwest. We've got you know Newton Stewart, which still runs a few, Castle Douglas, you've got uh Lockerby, Dumfries, and then you're on to Carlisle, but then obviously after that, you're up you're really up to Stirling, and uh you know, it's uh three hour journey up to Stirling. There's a lot of people do send livestock up there, but um you know, so far, I mean, we used to sell all our. Haves in Carlisle up until about five years ago, and then I decided actually I would give Castle Douglas a go again. And you know, I've been delighted with trade so far, more or less.

SPEAKER_01

And Castle Douglas for you will be what you half an hour, will it?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it's 15, 20 minutes. Yeah. So you know, for me to to especially spring calving, you know, when you're selling your yearlings and and you're in the middle of lambing, you can you can nip up and and make sure they they sell um watch them go through the ring and then get back for around two of lambing.

SPEAKER_01

So it's uh you know it's handy for just long enough as be seen again.

SPEAKER_00

It's long enough to have have a chat, yeah, uh and and freshen your head up and realize that you know talking to sheep um isn't actually that satisfying.

SPEAKER_01

I think you also talk to other people who are having the same issues, and I think that's really valuable. Like that's I think it is yeah, really important.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but you know, there's uh it it yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I'm aware we've not really spoken about the sheep, but before we move on to the sheep, I'm interested to know what is your main productivity driver with your cattle? What do you really want to achieve from that herd?

SPEAKER_00

Um I would like to my my aim is to become 100% grass fed uh in the beef, and realistically I suppose that that for me is that that's where I want to get to. Um, and I want to be able to run my herd of cattle predominantly on my own. Um, I'm trying to make it a bit more of a foolproof system. Yes, we've got the sheds there, but if I could the longer I can keep them out in the winter, but it trouble is in winters, and in you know, every winter's different at the moment. This winter was appalling. You know, the cows came in in December. Uh, I'd love to be able to keep the cows out all year. I hate seeing them inside for three, four months. Um, but you know, we couldn't have done it this year, but I've nothing left for them to go outside to. So, you know, we're we're very lucky that we've we've got these sheds um that that you know, nice airy, you know, good sheds. But so yeah, that that's my main target is is to reduce you know, reduce inputs.

SPEAKER_01

And and do you think you know, concentrate or you go to pasture for life or you go and be accredited for it, or are you just aiming to reduce it and and keep it as an option?

SPEAKER_00

I I'm I'm I'm open to to all options. If I can go to pasture for life, great, you know, and if if it's gonna work, then you know, something to work towards. Um we did uh a thing through the Bank of Scotland with uh the Soil Association recently. Um interesting one. I asked, I was I was quite keen to to get put in touch with other people locally that had done the same thing so that we can actually maybe create a group of like-minded people and and you know knock heads together and see how you go about you know without ploughing and without cultivation, and you need to obviously direct drilling and whatever, but they were like, nah, we can't uh not let it pass other people's data. And I was just like, Well, you know, what waste, what waste. So, um, but you know, to to sort of get get you know, like-minded people together and and um you know, it was a bit like the rural leadership, you know, that's what I really got out of it, you know, bouncing ideas off people that are in the same boat and um networking. It's just such a good tool. Um and I I just would love to be able to do much more of that to you know find find ways around it.

SPEAKER_01

Um so if you're listening to this and you want to get in a group of money, go to Mossyard, buy a burger, meet his dad, absolutely speak to Marty, give me a discount. Um but yeah, I I I mean you cannot the value of that network, the value of getting off farm, discussing things, actually you realise that you're doing a good job, and also you pick up wee bits and pieces that make you do a better job.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I think so. Um and it can be something you know, it can be mid minuscule, it really can. It can be just something that you say, God, I've why I I mean it wouldn't take it take five minutes to do that, or implement that, but you know, a lot of it unfortunately is uh you know it's gonna be big change, um, it's gonna be a lot of in a lot of cost going forward and and a lot more time. Um and that is you know, at the moment with with our diversifications, you know, time is uh time is pretty precious. Um and you know, trying to juggle cooking pizzas on a Friday night and and lambing sheep and calving cows and and keeping kids happy and taking them to pony club and swimming and gymnastics and you know making sure you're trying to be the best dad you can. It's it's like it's uh it all eats into your your I mean you know there's not a lot of time left at the end of the week.

SPEAKER_01

So and that that's there's an exciting and positive change there, but if you go back previous generations, the the dad just went and worked.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was speaking to my auntie about that tonight, and uh she was just saying, you know, you you know, I I don't know how you do it, you know, with the amount of time that you invest in your kids, because your dad and and his brothers, um, you know, the the structures of of their businesses didn't allow, or or you know, it was something that they they didn't really get involved in.

SPEAKER_01

I think it was a couple of things.

SPEAKER_00

Um left to to the wives to take the boys or the girls to scouts and brownies or to gymnastics or to cadets or whatever, and you know, they would they still in some most most cases they expected still to come in and have the tea in the table and and you know so whereas I things have changed somewhat um positively 100%.

SPEAKER_03

It's also a great excuse to get off the farm and just talk about something else, see something else, and just get if you've had a bad day in the lambing field, it gets you off the place, doesn't it? It's it's a great mental change.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's uh it's really important to to have that. I mean, as I said, you know, the structure of where we are, we've always got tourists floating around, you know, in the middle of lambing time, the shops open generally sort of four days, five days a week, and there's always somebody there that you can actually just have a chat to. Um, and yeah, there's times that you don't want to to have that chat, and you can just jump on your cord bike and vanish, but there is times that you you need that, and um you know it's quite an isolating industry, um, and you know, you spend a lot of time on your own, so it it can be, you know, those days off the farm, as you say, um, or or just having having somebody, you know, the days of having reps popping in uh to come and see are are far few between. Now, you know, some some of these reps you don't want to see, some of them it's quite nice just to sit down and have a cup of coffee and just chat. So it's uh yeah, you know, the likes of all these you see likes of Armstrong, it's probably you uh you know, all these things are really good. Um just trying to get people to talk and you know, be a bit more open and and not so isolated, but there'll be so many people stuck up in the hills that don't see people for weeks and weeks. I I just couldn't I for me I you know I'm very lucky that we've got the the I've been brought up with the tourism side and that that's been great for me.

SPEAKER_03

So I think we we've not spoken about sheep, and obviously sheep are the most important thing in any farm. So I think we better talk about the sheep. Talk us through the sheep enterprise, Murray.

SPEAKER_00

So up until about um seven or eight years ago, we were um we'd have a small flock of blue-faced Leicesters, we'd have some cross ewes, and we'd have about 500 blackie and 550 blackie ewes predominantly on the hill ground, um breeding our own replacements. Uh and then and it was starting to become more and more of a problem. Latmings were becoming a problem with the horns, the horns were getting stronger, the heads were getting stronger, and I was getting a bit disillusioned with it. Um, I had a young lad working for me at the time doing doing my shepherding up on the hill. Um, and we introduced a few. I thought I'd try a few chiates. Somebody had said, oh, you should try a few chibiates and see what they're like. So I bought some chibi at Ulams and stuck them in the hill, thinking, well, we'll see if they survive, you know, the the ground we've got, and you know, there they were the next year, ready for tupping. I said, yeah, okay, go and buy some more chi viet U lambs, so bought another 50 uh tupped those and uh produced some good lambs. And a few years down the line, when we're about half and half, the the shepherd young lad um decided he he needed change of uh job, so he moved on somewhere with a house. And uh at that point, I mean I'd I'd I was like, I'm done, done with blackies, so I just sold a lot and uh replaced them with chibiates. Um so my Hill Crown is uh we're we're 100% chibiates up there. Uh again, I think we're down to about we're setting about 250 ewes up on the hill, um, across about 120 of them to the Leicester to produce the mules for Moss Yard. And um, you know, the it's day and night, I have to say, the carcass on the lamb, we're finishing them 100% grass fed. Uh and we're getting these carcasses to, I think we're killing them out, you know, sort of they're going to market about 46 kilos. Or not going to market, they're going to uh the abattoir, you know. Um we hang a lot direct to slaughter with a lot of them. Um the heavier lambs will we'll put through the ring, but uh nine 90% of them will be hung up and with some good through the shop.

SPEAKER_03

So using a really nice kind of stratified system there with with the assets that you've got landwise, and you've got your hill reading the sheep for your lowland. Yeah. What kind of lambing percentages are you getting from hill to so when we had the blackies, I think we would be scanning about 130%.

SPEAKER_00

Last year we scanned the cheviates at 160. Now I was always told that you'll never get the same number of lambs out of achievement, and I've um it was all rubbish. This year the scanning percentages were about 130%, so we were back down there's a lot of singles in there this year. Um, and there would be some overfat haul uh gimmers that there was quite a few over fat that didn't get in lamb, but again, at the same time, I'm trying to pull in my my lambing period from what would have been six weeks, tups are out for four weeks now, and that's it. So I'm at that stage in in the cutback to four weeks that you know you're gonna lose a few more, but at the same time we're tightening that that lambing period up.

SPEAKER_03

So um you're on a true hill lambing though, uh you maybe end up with a higher lambing percentage at a scanning at 130 rather than 160.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so we've got in by fields uh up in the hill ground, and you know, predominantly all all the the twins will stay in by uh and then the the singles will be in by for about a week and a half, and then they're they're marked and put onto the hill. Um, and that's it. You know, you just chuck them out. So they've then got the they've got 800 acres of you know Heather Hill um to to graze on. And last year actually we had this time of year we were actually burnt up because it'd been such a dry period and we had no grass left, so literally I put everything on the hill, twins a lot. Um and you know what they did bloody well, came off there in great shape. So I was was delighted with that.

SPEAKER_01

I I always think it's interesting what so obviously I'm not I'm not saying you've not got a hill, because it definitely is a hill, proper hill, but it's definitely a southwest hill. If you went to you know, if the if you went to the the northwest, what you've got is effectively a really, really good hill park. You know, it's yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you've got you know those gimmers that are too fat, you've got you know it's all pointing towards a s a strong hill that carries stock well, does you know it's it's but I suppose as well we've we've we've reduced in reducing our um sheep numbers up in the hill dramatically.

SPEAKER_00

So I mean with pretty much half them, but it's day and night, you know, would be we'd be properly pushing the boundaries with with 550 sheep up there, um blackies originally, and uh, you know, coxie, worm burden, um, all of these things were were an issue. Um were I'm noticing a big difference now, you know, things the coxie, yeah. You can still pick up the odd bit of coxie here and there, and the worm burden has dropped, dropped dramatically. So it's um you've I mean it's got to be an easy system as much as as much as the calving. But I'm finding that the cheviates are are um bloody good mothers, you know. I mean, if you're not careful, you can go up the road in the morning and and you know, three mothers will be trying to steal the one lamb. You know, they're they're you've got to be on top of it. So but they're great for twinning on.

SPEAKER_03

And again, that's having that plenty of scope will be helping that in a way as well. Yeah. If they're on top of each other, it could be a different game altogether.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, definitely, definitely. So it's uh but you know, also we've had customers coming in just saying that the the lamb is phenomenal, they haven't never had lamb like it. So that you know is it's great when you get customers just saying, you know, just the feedback you get. And we've had farmers coming in saying what what what's your what breed is it because I want more of it. Um I'm not saying that the blackie, it's still one of the top meats you can buy um in in lamb, but I think the chevias whether it's the fact that it's 100% grass fed now, um that and it's slower matured, you know, we're probably selling the last of our lambs in February, March. Um, you know, but majority of them are away by by Christmas, January time. So it's uh they're a wee bit slower, slower grown.

SPEAKER_01

Lamb's such a difficult thing because some people's preference would be you know that Texel straight off its mother, you know, still on milk, and then somebody would want uh blackie hog at 12 months old, and yeah, and everything in between because it the gaminess, the gaminess, the you know, lamb's quite a strong taste. I enjoy lamb, but I wouldn't want it too strong.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we've got a few people asking for mutton in the shop, and you know, it's a different as you say, the older it gets, the the stronger it gets, and um you know the older generation love mutton, but it's not something everyone wants. I make sure that our our animals are are kept the highest welfare, and and that's really important for me, even to the point of taking them up the road in a in a trailer. I'd rather I love them to be if we could set up some form of system where we could slaughter them on on farm, it would be I'd I'd love, you know, it'd be the the best way for me, but it's just the red tape is is phenomenal. So I ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

SPEAKER_03

It's very interesting you're you're saying about somebody's uh wanting to know about the the whole journey. Like you you are in charge of the majority of its journey, but yes, it's it's going away for the processing, and it's quite interesting. Like we do Christmas turkeys, so we talk to quite a lot of customers at that time of year, and I always find it interesting that most years we'll have a vegetarian buy a turkey off us, and it is largely that we want to know the journey of it, we want to know its high welfare, you know, like those uh those parts are actually more important and and that makes them want to try. So I don't know, have have you had any um vegetarians want to try anything?

SPEAKER_00

Um we we there's there's always a couple, there's always a few. We've got a friend in Kakubri who's uh who's been vegetarian for 20 years, um and I think between him him and his uh him and his wife uh they they lapse once or twice a year. Um, and his lapse is to go and buy a donut kebab. Now, if I were if I was a vegetarian uh that wanted to eat meat, I mean I would be going down the route of a steakhouse, I'm sure, not going to get a donut kebab, which is I I mean, you don't know what you're eating, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01

You've got a good chance that you've selected all the meats though. They'll be you know, it's all mixed in and I think so.

SPEAKER_00

Uh, but you know, um there is people that come in. Um, we had to ask a lady, a vegetarian lady applied for a job in the shop this year, and Amy was like, Look, you know, I'm really sorry, but you know, how's it gonna work that you're selling our meat, yet you're a vegetarian? So I'll get around it. I'll get around it as well. Okay, okay, let's we'll keep you in mind, and then thankfully, um, you know, someone else came up uh and and has ticked the box, but it was like that that's a tough one when you're sending you know a sausage roll is the the finest, you know, free-range pork, um, which you can see over here, and uh, you know, it's like running okay, but yeah, it's uh you are you gonna be giving it that gold star? Uh or are you just gonna say try the the the roast veg quiche uh in the bottom counter?

SPEAKER_01

Hidden away with the light off.

SPEAKER_00

No, they're never hidden away because they're all fresh as well. Amy does does do a fine selection of quiches.

SPEAKER_03

Where do you go next for the business then? You've you have you're well you've succeeded after four generations. You have beef, you've got lamb, you've got pork, you've got a farm shop, you've got diversification. What does 10 years time look like for you?

SPEAKER_00

It's an interesting one. Um so I'm at a crossroads at the moment because um my summer grazing is now being planted in trees. Um my hilt ground, the hilt ground itself is is not well 300 acres of that has been planted. Um the rest of it's okay at the moment. Um my brother owns the ground, and it, you know, rightly so, he can do what he likes with it. But obviously, I at the moment I'm farming it. Uh his his son Robbie has got about 30 sheep, and his other two boys have about 150 chickens. Um so that that free movement of livestock is is getting smaller. And smaller. Um, so I'm at a a difficult crossroads at the moment about knowing what to do. I've priced up buying some land locally. The cost of repayments is terrifying. You know, do I want to be paying that off until I'm 70 years old? And then realistically come that point, I'll be selling it anyway. Um, maybe I say that my girls might suddenly decide they want to farm, but at the moment they are not showing any interest. So we're at this this crossroads of you know, do we go down the route of um downsizing to 250 acres? Um, and figuring out how we can manage it'd be some big changes, I think. Um cattle numbers would be reduced, sheep numbers would be reduced. I'd have to probably change to getting rid of cross shoes and putting on a pedigree flock of something. Um so yeah, there could be some big changes there. Uh we're looking at pushing the farm shop offering. Certainly, that is uh changing as we speak. So we're putting on in a commercial commercial kitchen to um to do some more, hopefully some more home home meals for for tourism, you know, for people coming to stay in the caravan site or whatever, uh, but also doing some more breads, things like that, trying to work with collaboration with local restaurants or um, but also putting on an outdoor kitchen to do more pizza nights. So at the moment on a Friday night we'll do a pizza night, wood fired pizzas. Um, so we do that every Saturday or every Friday during the summer. But if we can possibly extend that window, we'll we'll do that looking at possibly a barbecue beat burger night. Um we also have permission for another three shepherd's huts uh on the farm down here, but that that that in itself is uh fairly I I there's a part of me that thinks that the clamping sector could be a bit saturated. However, we have quite a unique location um with with the beach and uh you know with with the offerings at Mosheard. So that might but it's the cost of doing, you know, we're sort of priced up putting the three shepherds huts up, and it's just you know, it's it's absolutely terrifying. So the the the return on investment would be quite quite minimal. Um so you know that there's masses to to go forward with, but it's it's just how I get my head around it, um, and and you know, just where we go.

SPEAKER_01

I think for me it's something you've not said actually, but I think it's quite exciting that where the red meat sector's at at the moment, things are pretty positive. You know, there's some scary stuff in terms of macroeconomics and diesel prices and fertiliser prices and things, but we are selling a product that people want. Yeah. We're we still have you know, we've had a there's pretty big there's been a pretty big reduction in the suckler herd, and we're now at a place I think that the long-term outlook for what we are doing is pretty positive, and so it's good that if we had that conversation maybe five or ten years ago, the first thing you might have said was I would just put my cows off, and actually the cows now are a pretty integral part, and and one swallow doesn't make a summer within a few good years, yeah. But um those cows are now an integral part of how what that business is and how it works, so it's it's exciting, I think, that the the future for the core bit of the business it looks to be really pretty positive, yeah. And you your issues are in terms of succession and and succession's always ongoing, like you think you have the meeting, you get succession done, and then you leave it a year and realize that it's your turn, you and it's passing on to cats the next bit. So and the more the the more successful your business is the harder it is to deal with in the end.

SPEAKER_00

Well that that's it, you know. I mean, we're we're again so lucky that we've uh we've managed to develop, I suppose, three entities to our business. You know, we've got the holiday accommodation, um, we've got the farm shop now, and we've got you know a farm that is you know is making money, obviously, but the change in subsidies going forward, you know, currently at the moment, you know, we are we're making a profit, but take those subsidies away, I think there's always going to be something there to bolster uh or or prices are gonna skyrocket, um, or they're gonna have to uh to to to back that up. But you know, yeah, I I completely agree. I think you know, we're at a stage now that I can't see beef beef really dropping a huge amount more, but it's um it's just I suppose for me it's the it's just trying to pinpoint the direction I'm going to go down over the next few years um to secure. I mean, I'm I'm you know, don't go wrong, I've got my 250 acres and and that's manageable, but if I can still have my my spring calving cows at lagging, maybe have to outwinter them. But there's there's options, and I just need to to I think my slatted sheds probably had it, but you know, there are other options as you know, just by you know, we could put in a field of kale and then bring them in, um, come closer to to calving and and things like that. So, you know, well, we've got options there and the sheep side, yeah, I think uh I think that's certainly fairly manageable, but it would have to become something, you know, uh rather than having to buy buy sheep in every year. I think if I can you know have a purebred flock that I can you know breed my own and uh you know maybe buy the odd female for a bit of a different bloodline here and there, um but you know still keep it a closed flock going forward is is is quite important to me. Um so there's lots to think about.

SPEAKER_01

Dramatically expand expand that blue flock, that would be the way forward.

SPEAKER_00

You know, yeah, I'm not 100% convinced about uh the expanding any blue face Leicester flock. I think for sanity reasons it might have to go the other way. Oh yeah. Or or maybe I start lambing them in in uh August.

SPEAKER_03

I think though, like from what you've spoken about throughout this podcast, it's clear that you've got resilience in mind. Um you have like you've spoken about, you've got the the shed that's reaching the end of its life, but you do have other options there. You've spoken about you could outwinter, but you've got a cow that sounds she's very adaptable and very suitable to that type of um management system, and same with the sheep. So um I have no doubt that that in the future you're very much going to still be um surviving and thriving very, very well. Um you've got, by the sounds of it, a lot of different uh habitats and a really kind of biodiverse area that you're working. We've spoken about you've got scrub, you've got grassland, you've got a hill, you've got um coastal land, you know, you've you've got a bit of everything that will really help with adapting to what the future brings as well. So it's been really, really good speaking to you, Murray. Um I've really actually enjoyed it. I don't know about yourself, Robert.

SPEAKER_01

I just want to come for a pizza night now. That's a big plan.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you're always welcome. You're always welcome. Do you a good deal?

SPEAKER_01

I always have to pay.

SPEAKER_00

Nah, don't be silly. I say that now. I'm not in the till.

SPEAKER_01

Get us there first, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You don't have to pay for the pizza, but you've got to buy all those burgers, Robert, when you're there.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I do make podcast fee now as well, so that's good.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's been good. I've enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, it's good to catch up, it's good to see you.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. It's uh it's been far too long.

SPEAKER_01

That's all for this episode of the QMS Podcast. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_03

We hope you've enjoyed hearing another story from Scotland's Red Meat Supply Chain.

SPEAKER_01

Across this series, we're bringing you real insights from the people who make the industry what it is, sharing their challenges, their opportunities, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_03

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Thanks for tuning in. We will see you next time as we continue the journey through the supply chain.