QMS on Leadership, Livestock and Looking Ahead

As the Royal Highland Show gets underway, we sit down with QMS Chair Kate Rowell to discuss her final months in the role, reflect on eight years of leadership and explore what's next for Scotland's red meat sector.

Plus, Abby Tong joins us with the latest consumer insights, unpacking the trends influencing purchasing decisions and what shoppers are looking for from Scottish red meat brands.

A must-listen for anyone with an interest in Scottish agriculture, consumer trends and the future of the industry.

Here is a link to all episodes of QMS's podcast https://qmscotland.co.uk/news-media/qms-podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the QMS Podcast, where we explore the issues, opportunities and trends shaping Scotland's red meat industry.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

In the QMS focused episodes, we'll be speaking to the Chief Executive, Chair, Board members, and Market Specialists about the topics that matter most to the sector. From market trends and policy developments to practical insights and supply chain challenges.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

This podcast is your opportunity to put your questions directly to QMS and to industry experts. If there's something you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can submit your questions through our social media channels or anonymously using the link in the episode description. So I'm joined today by uh a friend and important industry figure and Kate Rowell. How are you, Kate?

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I'm fine, thank you, Robert. Not so bad.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Good. I'm just I was just trying to think how long ago it is that I first met you on rural leadership. When would that be?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

2015 it was October the 31st, 2015. There you go, I can remember it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Yeah, in the Fennec Hotel.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

It was.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Yeah. I know I was lucky enough to facilitate that. It was my first year facilitating as well, so we were we were both under pressure, but certainly a lot has changed since then. So at that stage, you were, I think you were just at home, just finished being a monitor farmer. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yeah, we were monitor farmers uh 2012 to 2015. So yeah, we were just about to finish. Um uh I think it was November 2015 we finished, and I had joined the QMS board uh April of that year. So uh 2015 was a big year. Yeah, you was a highlight.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Yeah, of course it was. And then uh when did you become chairman? When did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Chair.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Sorry, of course, yes, chair.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

I always say to people, Jim McLaren would not have been uh very pleased if somebody had referred to him as a chairwoman. So uh you don't refer to me as a chairman.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

That's quite reasonable. Maybe from now on we should call him the former chairwoman.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Well, there you go. Uh yeah, I became chair in October 2018. So I was on the board for three and a bit years and then became chair in 2018.

unknown 2:19

Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

And you're now the longest standing chair, is that yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

So, Jim, the the way it works is public appointments, so you have a limited term, so um, you have the maximum of two four-year terms, uh, but they've extended mine by just a few months just because of the election that was in May and the disruption that caused to the sort of appointment process for the next chair. So I've got a few extra months. Um, so I will I will outdo Jim by the time I get to the end of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Excellent. Yeah. Um so what obviously QMS, the industry, everything's changed since that, since 2018 to now. I suppose what are you most kind of proud of that you've done and and what are we pushing forward for just now with QMS?

SPEAKER_00 3:07

So I've just been reflecting it on this actually, because um I think uh this goes out on the first day of the Highland Show, and I will just be giving my speech uh at the Highland Show breakfast as we do every every year, and this will be my last one. So part of what I'm gonna do is reflect on how things have changed. So I have been thinking about this quite a lot, and when I first came into the role, the big the big challenge that was coming up was Brexit. That was the big thing that was going to affect everybody. Um, the sheep trade was going to be decimated if we didn't get the right sort of deal, if you remember back to then. Nobody really knew where we were going. And looking back from this end of the whole process, looking back the way, Brexit, yeah, it happened. Um, but it was very kind of minor when you look at all the other huge things that have happened, like COVID and the the war in Ukraine, and the war that we're in now, and the rise of veganism, and the fall of veganism, and the climate change emergency. You know, Brexit is in there, but uh it's not nearly the big the big thing that was it was going to be when I first started. Um I remember going to Orkney and I think it was January 2019, and veganism landed on Orkney the same time as we did in the plane, I'm sure, because there'd been some sort of um interview or or something on Orkney radio that everybody was absolutely up at arms about this. And we we went around quite a few different farms, and it was all anybody could talk about, you know. Oh, we're gonna have to if they want to stop us, stop us eating meat, um, everything's gonna be plant-based. Uh, you know, it was a it was a real threat, and it you can look back now and think it was a bit funny, but at the time people were really, really concerned about this, and now look at where we are, you know, nobody's speaking about it. It's a fad that's been and gone. People are are really, really interested now in protein, they're interested in where their food comes from. Nobody wants to eat sausages made out of tofu or soy or something. You know, they want real food. So, yeah, really interesting journey for for various different things. And of course, the sheep trade, far from collapsing, is about the best. Well, it is the best I've ever seen it in my life. So, yeah, just interesting how you expect things, and sometimes they work out, and sometimes they're completely different from what you expect.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

I know there would be some pretty bad decisions in hindsight made about sheep and people that sold breeding sheep at Brexit with a view to do something different or buy them back when the trade collapsed and all sorts, and it really is it now makes it a challenge. I mean, getting it's a real positive for all of us that are in, but it's very difficult for those who are not in. You know, that that taking on a tenancy, new entrance story is a real a real worry for me, anyways, how we actually get new blood in if if a mule gimmer's now £300 and if a sucker a suckler cow with Cabot Foot's now three grand, it's it's a difficult road in, but uh it's nice to see it. Certainly the industry has grown and blossomed, really.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah, tell me about it. I persuaded um my husband to sell uh we sold all our sheep quite early. Not our sheep, sorry, our lambs. Um usually we would keep some store lambs, and I made him get rid of them all before the before the actual sort of knife fell on Brexit, and then of course in the next sort of few months they were worth about twice what they had been, so I wasn't very popular. Um, but we didn't sell any of our yows or any of our cattle. But yeah, absolutely. Get how you get into that. I mean, sheep are obviously a bit more accessible for people, but it's still a big capital outlay, and there's just there's just few and you know, tennis, and and opportunities are few and far between. We were up at um I was up at Monitor Farm meeting last week, uh up at Banf and Bucken, and and there was talk of uh contract farming up there, and there was actually an opportunity that Strathmore estates were were um highlighting that they had going uh for somebody, and it just sounded really, really good, but it did strike me that you very, very rarely hear of those opportunities coming along.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Yeah, but I suppose we could talk about that one all day. It's uh a separate series of podcasts in its own right. Um what about so obviously as you see this because this is going out the morning of day one of the Highland Show, so you've already made your announcement. So, what is it that you're going to be announcing at the Highland? What's what's occurring?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Well, one of our big launches, um we're sort of launching half of it at Scottsheep and then half at the Highland Show, is to do with the second part of meeting our potential. So if you remember last year we we did a huge amount of work, Ian McDonald and our intelligence uh market intelligence um department did a huge amount of work on looking at what the demand for beef was going to be over the next five years or so. And what what he came out with, having run the models and all the figures, was that we were either going to have to produce more beef ourselves to meet the demand, or we were going to end up importing more. So that all went um along last year, and actually the big win out of that, uh and it took a lot of work from ourselves and a lot of other organisations, was that the Scottish Government said that they were not going to follow the Climate Change Committee's recommendations to reduce livestock numbers, and they did not want to do that. And that was, as I say, the result of a lot of work from our our campaign, but also others, you know, across the industry. So that was a real win last year, and then um discussion turned to looking at the other two species that we look at, so sheep and pigs. And this year Ian's been doing some work uh on the sheep sector to see what the potential is there, what the opportunity is there, um if there is, if if there are going to be, if there is going to be a shortage, if you know what we need to look at there. So and then pigs are coming later on this year as well. So uh at Scott Sheep, we launched the first part of that, and um we then have combined the the sheep figures and the cattle figures to do a big launch at the Highland Show to look at really the economic um potential when you combine both, because many, many farms in Scotland, as you know, are are sheep and cattle. A lot of farms are mixed. So uh although we have to look at the species separately when we look at figures, in reality, you know, people have got cattle and sheep on their farms. So to get across that combined opportunity to to decision makers and to general public and consumers, it's really, really important.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Yeah, and and is it a similar story in terms of the extra two cows? Is it a similar story in the sheep sector as well?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

So sheep, you numbers fell, I think, quite dramatically, uh, a bit earlier than cattle numbers, and over recent years they've been reasonably stable, they've declined a little bit, but not nearly as much as cattle in the past sort of five years. And interestingly, the productivity for sheep has gone up, and when you look at Ian's figures, that's really interesting. In England, the product the numbers are falling much faster, and their productivity's gone down. So number of lambs per U in Scotland has gone up, and number of lambs per U in England has come down, which could be for you know a huge variety of reasons, including weather and all sorts of things. But that is a really good news story that our productivity is up. So we're still producing a good amount of um lamb and sheep meat, and we're producing more from less, well, more from the same. So that's a really good news story. Um, to get us back to um being in a position where we wouldn't have to import it, where we would be completely self-sufficient at a UK level, um, we are self-sufficient at the moment, but the model shows that in five years' time, so by about 2032, we won't any longer be self-sufficient because consumption and the population have increased, and that's particularly down to sort of ethnic, um, the ethnic population in the UK. Um so there is going to be a gap, it's nowhere near as big a gap as the cattle gap, but there is going to be a gap in five years' time unless we hold our sheep numbers stable or increase them slightly and increase our prof our productivity. So there is an opportunity there, absolutely. Numbers-wise, it's nothing like as big as beef, but it is there. Um, but what we've looked at as well is the the sort of opportunity for rural communities and social cohesion and all that as well, because sheep are spread out far more thinly over Scotland than cattle are really. You know, they're there's sheep everywhere, and some of the remote island rural areas rely entirely on sheep. You can't put cattle on some of the mountains in Scotland. So it's really, really important for that. So some of the parts pieces of work that we've done have been to do with that um social opportunity for either keeping sheep or increasing the numbers. So, what we're really doing is targeting this part of the campaign less industry to say keep more sheep because people will will respond to the market anyway. It's more targeted at decision makers to say, look, this is why sheep are important to Scotland and to the Scottish economy and to remote rural areas and to consumers to say this is um an important part of Scotland and to focus on the provenance and the the good that sheep do in the whole of the sort of social fabric of Scotland. So it's a it's a it's the same sort of thing, but it's got slightly different focuses.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yeah, I I think the frustration out there, a lot of it is you know the processing capacity in Scotland for sheep. We're in a great position, we've got a great climate for producing sheep meat, we produce the best sheep meat in the world, which we know we're doing the job, and what percentage of that are we actually processing within Scotland? You know, it's it's pretty poor on the whole, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, I mean there are several um processors who do process sheep in Scotland, and I think as far as I can gather, there is capacity to do more, but it is down to their business structures. As you know, most of them are um are not just Scottish, they're based across the UK and Ireland, and it's down to their decisions what makes most economic sense for them to do. There is one processor that does all its land processing for the whole of the UK in in its abatto and Scotland. Um, so it's about us trying to show um policy makers why it's why that would be good, giving them the figures and the the facts behind that, so that they can then make decisions so that the these companies want to come to Scotland to do their to do their work, you know. So it's about the business environment that they're in, and that comes down to things like um food processing grants, um, planning, you know, um just sort of business conditions and trying to make Scotland as favourable as possible within that UK and Ireland context so that processors are are persuaded and encouraged to do more processing of uh sheep up here.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

Yeah, you certainly if you look, I have a lot of dairy clients in a in a live in a dairy area, and when you look at the the difficult place the dairy industry is in at the moment, a lot of well, most of that's driven by the main issues global economics and oversupply. But the the acute issue for a lot of these businesses is actually to do with contracts and processes down south, decisions being made in boardrooms abroad, and you know, I just I personally I think that Scotch Lamb stories it's going so well at the moment, but we need to have control and and the the power of the industry needs to remain in this country.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah, and I mean part of why we are so focused on all three species, but Scotch Lamb um being born, reared, and slaughtered in Scotland, you can't put the the um brand on it unless it's been slaughtered in Scotland. And part of the reason why we're so strong on that is to try and keep that focus on on keeping the processing in our country. So if there are retailers who are demanding Scotch lamb as opposed to just Scottish lamb or or British lamb, if they want Scotch lamb with the brand on, which some of them are now committing to, then they have to have that lamb processed in Scotland. So they then say to the processors they work with, well, we want we want lamb that's been slaughtered in Scotland. So the whole thing is is driven through that way, and that's what one reason why we're so um strong on that that whole born reared and slaughtered piece. Um and I know there are processors out there who who maybe don't process their lamb in Scotland, but they're having to contract other um processors to do some for them so that they can use that Scotch lamb um badge. And and that's really really important that we keep that there. And that's obviously what QMS is here for, is to try and promote those brands so that people the consumers understand what they mean, so they're then demanding them from the retailers, so the retailers are then saying to the processors this is how we want you to do it. So, you know, it's it's all about having conversations with um people so that they understand what it all means and why it's important.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Yep. Now, just on the consumer bit, what you've obviously been in this job a while, and it's obviously not all about the farmer, you know, ultimately it's the consumer that drives everything. I think there's been a good job of work done in terms of educating the public and young people, but is there anything particularly you think that they don't get yet? Is there anything that we need to really focus more on, or anything that really frustrates you about consumers?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

We're all consumers, aren't we? So I mean I frustrate myself sometimes. Um it's not there, I I don't like the term educate because I always think we need to we all need to understand where things come from, but we don't necessarily need to know all about it. So I always sort of as farmers we're always very keen on saying people should know how this works. Why don't people know what silage is? Well, why don't they understand the production cycle? And actually, they don't need to, you know. I I maybe go and buy a sofa. I don't need to know how that sofa was was built, and I don't need to be educated in that. I just need to know the basics of it. So I think we need to make sure that people understand that the high level stuff. If they want to know more, um there's loads of people out there to explain it, but it's the high level stuff about why it's important to buy Scottish, why Scottish livestock are good for the environment, the economy, the climate, nature, all those sort of things. Why, how how much knowledge and experience farmers have, and all that sort of um traditional farming that's happened in Scotland, people love all that sort of stuff, and and that's the sort of stuff that we're trying to get across to them. So when you know you know campaign, the the the one we've been running for three years, it's really about saying these are real farmers, and this is this is how they raise their livestock. They're they're care they care about the welfare, they care about the environment. It's not about um which I think we sometimes fall into the trap of because we're all so invested in farming, explaining about how if you cut grass at six weeks you get good quality silage. And do you know what I mean? It's I think we need to we need to back off and do the high-level stuff as much as possible. And I do get frustrated as well that consumers do tend to conflate what happens here with other places, and that's again another thing that we need to talk about. You know, you'll you'll see people talking about practices and and they don't happen here. And and again, that's something that we really need to get across. That that's exactly why you want to buy Scottish because these things don't happen here. Um, if you buy Scotch lamb, Scotch beef or prime Scottish pork, you can be guaranteed that that those things aren't happening in your food. So I think for me it's about trying to keep it that high level um way. But I will I also get frustrated at farmers because we often don't try to understand consumers very much either. You know, we're often not very good at that. We tell people things, and actually what we should be doing is listening to them.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Yeah. So pork. We mentioned that the three species, we we probably Kirsten and I will be guilty of talking to the beef and sheep sector because that's the one that we're immersed in. But obviously, the pork sector is hugely important and equally hugely under pressure at the moment. So, assuming you've had your breakfast, done your announcement at the Highland Show, you've done the probably done the easy bit first because you'll then have four days of talking to farmers, which I always thoroughly enjoy, but it's a full-on day. Um, what are you expecting to hear, and what I suppose what messages have we got for the the pig sector at the moment? Is there room for optimism or or you know where are we at?

SPEAKER_00 21:01

The pig sector is in a is in a really difficult place at the minute, and as you said before, it's global issues that are the problem there. You know, we've got some of the best pig farmers in the world, we've got fantastic units, we've got fantastic pigs and sows out there, but pork more than almost more than beef and lamb is is really subject to the to global pressures uh in the economy. And the big problem at the minute um for for pig farms in Scotland, as far as I can gather, is because there was an African swine fever outbreak in Spain, there's a lot of very cheap European um pork out there, um, and uh it's getting dumped, it's getting dumped uh all over Europe, but a lot of it's getting dumped into the UK, which is pushing the price down, and pig farmers are now producing pigs below the cost of production, which is completely unsustainable. And actually, looking back in my 2018 to now. Figures, beef and lamb farm gate prices have gone up, albeit inputs have gone up as well. I totally get that. The pork figures have barely changed. So I think in 2018 it was 145, and from what I can see just now, we're not looking very much above that at all. So it's really, really worrying. I know when I spoke to someone from NFUS the other day, they were saying that they've got evidence to show that our numbers are down 15% just recently, which is not good. And again, you get to that critical mass. We've only got one pork abattoir in Scotland. So if the critical mass drops below a certain level, you end up with abattoirs not being able to cover their overheads and moving into something else or going out of business altogether. Not that there's any sign that that's going to happen, but it's just a risk if numbers do keep falling. So it is really difficult to know what to do. Pork is it has got such opportunities as a meat. It's more nutritionally dense than something like chicken, but is much at the same price as chicken. So I suppose from our point of view at QMS, what we are trying to do is focus on helping people understand how to cook with pork because a lot of people don't understand, you know, a lot of people have lost that ability or they've maybe never had it in the first place. So it's about recipes, it's about value for money, it's about directing them to local butchers and retailers who are selling prime Scottish pork, and just trying to encourage them to use it. That's the bit that we can do in this whole jigsaw. But like I say, it's it's global, um it's it's global issues that are that are driving this. And I suppose I'm not a pig farmer myself, but I suppose like sheep, you can rebuild slightly quicker in the pork sector if things do turn round than you can in in the cattle sector because of the production cycle is so much quicker.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Yeah, I I just wonder if if we went back, we don't have a time machine, but if we went back to COVID and if we told a beef farmer that was getting 330 a kilo that actually within the next five years you'll be going you're gonna be getting, well, at the moment obviously somewhere about six but up to seven pounds a kilo in that period, what would they have done? You know, they would have gone to town, put numbers up, you know, the thing's been good. But what what would the pig farmer have done if during COVID you said that actually after COVID five years down the line you're gonna be getting the same price?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Well, exactly, and a lot of them went out of business um during that time. Um there was a there was a huge contraction of the pig sector at that point in time, and then it was stabilised and things were going really well for a bit, and and now it's dropped back again. I mean, I think pigs have always been, from what I can gather, have always been a bit more volatile. Uh, you know, there has been a bit more boom and bust in pigs than in in the other species, but no, it's um it is worrying, and we're doing you know, we we're doing as much as we can, and like I say, the the meat and our potential pig figures are going to come out later in the year, which hopefully will help to show uh again decision makers, politicians how important the pig sector in Scotland is, and we're we're working at that at pace.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Um wait a second, sorry. Sorry. Um one question I've got, and I've had it for a wee while, and I'm gonna ask it because you're here. There's obviously more than QMS across the world, there's bodies like QMS in every country or in most countries, uh very important they're there. Do they all say that they produce the best beef lamb or pork in the world? Or do you think we genuinely do?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Of course they all say that because that's that's what you say. Um but when you benchmark what we do across other countries, um, particularly the the assurance standards, you know, we are up there with the with the top in the world. So everybody does things slightly differently, don't they? But we've got the we've got the ideal climate for producing uh beef and lamb um here uh sustainably, we've got the the sort of uh landscape out there that we can grow grass but not much else, so it's the ideal place to produce it. And for centuries, Scotch beef in particular has been known um globally, worldwide, that it's uh maybe not centuries, that's maybe an exaggeration. Decades, let's say decades. Um we'd be known worldwide. I mean I went to I went to Japan in 2019, I was really lucky to go on a trade mission, and there hadn't been any British beef in Japan for 25 years after BSE, and the Japanese importers were saying we want Scotch beef, you know. It's a world-renowned name. So yeah, everybody's going to say they produce the best, but we produce the best.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Excellent. So we can hand on heartwicking, yeah. So um Highland Show, what you're looking forward to. So obviously there's the pressure bits, the speaking bits, and the the maybe the hairdryer from some farmers here and there, but is there any real highlights for you and the stand this kind of thing to be looking forward to?

SPEAKER_00 27:30

The best thing for me about the Highland Show is just a chance to speak to as many people as possible. I mean, how many conversations do you have, how many unfinished sentences do you have because someone else speaks to you as you're halfway through a sentence to someone else? For me, the best thing about the show is just getting that taking that temperature of everything that's going on. So there always tends to be a theme that comes through, more the thing that more people are speaking about than anything else. And that's really, really important because then you know you get that temperature check how how the sector's feeling, and you can you can look if there are challenges that have been that have been missed that we're not really seeing um when we're when we're working away in our day-to-day, you can really take that on board. I think it was a couple of years ago, the big one was really everybody seemed to be talking about young people in the next generation and the difficulties in succession. And I think that that really sort of pushed uh a focus onto that a little bit. Everybody obviously got that feeling, and it pushed a focus onto it, and so there was a lot of work done on it over the next sort of week while so um yeah, that's the bit that I like the best, just speaking to speaking to people and hearing what's going on and the busyness and the bustle, and yeah, the churos on the Sunday afternoon. There's a churos stand outside the sponsor tent, and uh I love red meat and I eat lots of red meat over the show, but the churos with the chocolate sauce are my go-to on the Sunday afternoon as a treat to say well done for getting through another four days.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Yeah, the integral part of a balanced diet is plenty of red meat and churros.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Good.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Um and then the horrible feeling on the Monday when you feel like you've been hit by a bus.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

But yes, exactly, and you don't want to get out of bed.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Yeah. Kate, that's been brilliant. We've touched on a lot there. I know there's been a lot of questions come in for you specifically. Hopefully, we've managed to cover a lot of them. And certainly, if there's any more, we're certainly keen to take any more, and and hopefully we'll we'll see you again soon. But certainly we'll look forward to catching up at the island show.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Brilliant. See you then. That's great. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Thanks, Kate.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

So today I'm joined with Abby Tong. So hi Abby, thanks for joining us. Hi, I'm a pleasure to be here. Can I just get a bit of background about you, Abby? So, what your role is within QMS and how you fit in with the team.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yes, of course. Um, well, I actually have joined the QMS about four years already. Uh, so my first role at QMS, actually, not my current role, um, it's actually a marketing intelligence project officer. I was mainly working with Yin, our marketing intelligence uh manager. I believe you have met them already, met him already. Uh, so my first role is all about uh data and how to improve the viral impacts of uh of the reports we prepare. For example, our annual biggest report is uh Scottish Red Meat Industrial Profile. You probably know it around it already. We are working on it at the moment. Uh so um I think it's uh it's it's a fact, it's uh it's itself is uh like more about the data and about improved real impact attract me a lot in with industrial because my background, um actually I have a master degree in finance, I have a bachelor's degree in economics, and just getting to data and getting out all these insights and making a positive impact on business is the all I'm interested in. So let's uh fit for my like uh kind of a career very well. And after one year's time in the original, uh original role, I move into my current role, which is uh category specialist, or now I change the title into insights specialist, it's actually the same. Um, and uh I think this uh it so so previously, my previous role is more about like farm data side, is the supply side. And my current role is more about like uh demand side, focusing on this consumer and the retail insights. I think it's my background is these two different roles and just give me uh very complete like knowledge into uh this Red Mate whole supply chain and so equip me with uh very um good kind of knowledge to give um useful and impactful insights um whenever it's needed. So yeah, I think it's uh that's uh that's me and working at the QMAS.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Brilliant. Well, a lot of your your retail and your insights will bring into our conversation today. But I just wonder with the background on finance and economics, what brought you into agriculture?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Oh well, yeah, that's true. That's a very interesting uh kind of a background for myself, and uh because uh I'm I'm actually coming from uh originally coming from China, even though I have been living in Europa for many many years, the majority of the time living in Europe, but still I uh it's my hometown. It's kind of like uh we have a lot of like cattles and sheep as well. Our cuisine back in my hometown, which eat a lot of red meat, and so the red meat itself is attracting me quite a lot. And uh coming to Scotland, I have tried out so many good, like good quality red meat, and it reminds me of my hometown. I really love this industry, even though I'm not coming from the farming program, but I love red meat.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Can I ask you who has the best red meat? China or Scotland?

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Uh well, it's uh I should say the same and the same meat in my heart, and they're still they they all got their own places in my heart. I love them all. And even some of my parents or like our friends coming from China is coming to visit us and try out and meet here, and they still feel oh, it's good quality, you know, it's like really good quality. Um, I could say even this uh its tenderness, it's so much better in Scotland compared to what we have in my hometown. So it's probably uh it's uh slightly much better uh in Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

And if we think then to the sheep sector, so today we're focusing on sheep, and we are seeing complete and utter record prices at the moment, and it's it's very interesting when other sectors, pigs and cattle, the prices are on the decline. Why are sheep performing so well?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Uh well I as probably um I'm thinking about the demand side really, and if we're so looking at the retail side, retail kind of sales, and lamb have been uh an outperformer in Scotland since last year. And so, for example, I'll just give you uh several examples. For example, the in the most recent 12-weeks period, which is including the um the uh Easter holiday celebration, and we have seen uh like a third demand for uh lambla roasting, and the lemlack roasting its volume has been increased by 19% compared to last year. So you could see a great need like is coming from in in Scotland. And if you look at uh another card, another card is very interesting, it's lamb steak. For the lamb steak, for the most recent 52 weeks period, we could tell that the volume increased by 52 percent compared to last year. Well, that uh is really a significant growth in demand we could see. And also if you compare with uh Scotland, with GB and Scotland for the past 52 weeks, Scotland's volume increased for lamb, um lamb sector, as retail sales increased by uh 8%. But if you compare with uh GB as a whole, GB has seen a decline uh of 5%. So you could totally see there is a surging demand for lamb cuts, lamb products in retail at the moment. And looking ahead, like summer summertime, um I'm I'm probably will still see the lamb going to flying because simply because for the summertime it's a barbecue season and the lamb, some of lamb kind of cuts like lamb steak and the lamb chops, and it is very popular when you go out for the barbecue occasion. So that probably still drives the need for lamb products. So from the demand side, I would say that is a strong demand and driving up the prices. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

It's very interesting that that we're seeing both volume and and price increasing with with the like the demand is still going. Because quite often when when the price goes up, the volume doesn't increase, does it? Sales might because it's it's worth more per kilo. Yeah, why why is that? Why why is more people turning to lamb?

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Uh well, I think some other reason probably we could go back to beef, we could talk about the beef sector. For example, the the lamb steak I have just mentioned. Lamb steak is volume increased by 52%. And it still is a very like premium cut. Its price is like um say 18-18 pounds per kilo. But if you compare to beef steak, and beef steak as currently probably is um is I think it's if I remember right, is around 23-24 pounds per kilo. That's quite like a kind of uh price premium, uh, if you compare the beefsteak to lamb steak. So I'm thinking probably some of the volume has been switching uh from beef steak to lamb steaks. They are still the same premium kind of steak for special occasions when people want to dine at home, but beef steak is kind of like um it's too expensive for some for some of the families. So they have a trip down to lamb steak. I think some of the uh reason could be attributed to that.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

And with with like that, that's such a big increase, your 50% increase in lambstakes. Are you seeing when you look at the retail kind of insights, are you seeing that people are diversifying away from the the typical cuts more so than just just with steaks? So are are people looking more towards I don't know, marinades or easy, easy, convenient type meats? Or what what what what cuts are people buying?

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Uh well it's uh it's a very good question, actually. And uh from the from what we see, and actually beef is still kind of a staple for Scottish households, and its volume is still 63% of the volume goes to uh beef consumption in Scotland. So you see the beef is still very, very important. I think the top uh kind of a cart for uh for the beef sector is the beef means, and people still consume beef means even though its price has been rising so fast. But we still see some uh quite emerging kind of a trend coming up, especially for the summer, summertime for the barbecue occasions. For example, uh the kebabs. Um, I have been into store and visiting store recently, and there's so many different types of MPD and new products around about kebab. Uh so I think it's unfold according to our data from Verpanel by Numerator actually last year. Um so the Kebops, its uh volume has been increased by I don't know, 20-21% volume. Um, so compared year to year. Uh so that's a great increase. If you look at, and I think it's another card is worth to keep a close eye on during the summertime, probably is rapes. The rapes, the packs have been sold and last year increased by 11% year in year. So that's just another card is quite popular during the summer occasions. And if you're talking about, yeah, as you mentioned about convenience, of course, um that we have seen the strong demand from consumer side. Convenience is very important to them. So we have seen some of the like a premium kind of private label product, like convenience pack ready ready meals, and their sales is flying at the moment. So, yeah, this is a lot of like cards and products that we could keep a close eye on, and convenience and house, and that they are both very, very driving demand. But at the same time, I just want to say that real price and provide a good value for the consumers is very key to drive more footfalls.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah, it was very interesting. Robert spoke to Kate earlier, and Kate spoke about how maybe as farmers we're not very good at understanding our customer. Yeah. What advice would you give to our listeners about understanding our customer?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Um, well, I I think that's um that's a very, very good question, actually. Um because as a consumer, so from our from my uh job roles, my role is to improve the various impact and try to deliver more insights to our stakeholders, especially I think for the farmers. So actually, I've been producing some of the contents online, either it's about like seasonal events, how like the retail side, how it's been performed for each card for each sector. And also there's like retail market updates and published on a monthly basis on PMAS website. So I think it's uh gradually you pick up all this information. And if for example, our stakeholders, farmers don't understand this uh content, welcome to drop me an email, whatever. I'm happy to explain all these insights to them.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

And it is interesting because consumer demands are definitely changing. We've obviously got a bit of a cost of living issue just now, um, as well as protein is a real is really, really in vogue. There's there's people having high protein diets and always eating the same, you know, if chicken's cheap, you don't want to eat chicken seven days a week. So having that ability to diversify, I mean you're saying there's the rise of steaks and there's a lot of kebabs, I guess it's looking at that diversification that the the shops or the butchers are offering differ different ways to eat the meats so that it it feels every day is is is different and it keeps food exciting as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Um so since you mentioned this cost, like living kind of a crisis, and uh I just want to uh uh mention a very key point. I think it's a very important piece of insight to our like listeners or either as we stakeholders, is like our shoppers now they're very cost conscious and they're spending less on um these groceries. Um so actually, if you combine what's happening in the beginning of this year, uh like in what's happening in the Middle East, and uh it's already have an impact on oil prices, we can all see it and feel it. And that kind of effect will pass gradually pass through to the whole supply chain of even to the like retailer end and consumer end. Um so and also imagine about like our consumer, 64% of our consumers according to over dependent on the numerator, and 64% of them feeling just managing or just struggling with their finance. If you compare to the data in 2020, um that number is 55%. So there's a nearly 10% increase. And also, we have been following their like uh product like repertoire and product mix. Basically, that means uh there's a reduced level of them, that means people are buying less uh less products and put less products in their business. And they're spending less. And so this is kind of a trend. I think it's just telling you that how people react to this price inflation. And in store, in the retail store, we've obviously seen there's more people participating in the price promotion. And of course, and there's some more like sales for a private label. Private label is cheaper than branded ones. And also we have seen some trade-down from the expensive cars and proteins to cheaper cars. For example, from beef to probably to pork and poultry. And so all these trends, I think, but but still, I would say, even though we have seen like people have very tight budget, but still there's opportunities for red meat sector as well. For example, we could focus on more affordable kind of protein. For example, we have seen this pork means. Because consumers now, because of the cost of living crisis, they have fewer trips out for out home, go to restaurants, and all of these needs occasions have been converted into the retail side. They want to replicate this restaurant kind of style meal at home. So there's more like opportunities for like in-stores. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

So we're obviously recording this podcast that's going to be put out the first day of the Highland Show. Yeah. Will you be at the Highland Show, Abby, for people that want to come and speak to you?

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Definitely. I will be there. You will see my face and around in different tents, probably. I sometimes it will have shifts to Lidl's tents. So, but anyways, you will see me quite often at the Royal High Show. Yeah. And what do you look forward to most about the Highland Show? Uh well, for me, every year probably it's just uh learn more about like different animal braids. You know, I I'm coming from not from a farming background. It's every time when I go to the different like uh different chats and look at the different animal braids, it's a blackface, the textile, it's always quite interesting to note animals. That's the exciting part for me, I think.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Brilliant. And while you're there, do you try and test some of the different foods that are on offer at the show?

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Uh well, to be honest, um while we are at Royal Highlands Show, and we are we don't have much time to like spend in to try out different foods at Roy Royal Highland Show because we have very busy with uh different shapes. But if you want me to recommend, I probably recommend our cookery demo. And so every time I could try out the different foods, the different recipes involving red meat, and it's quite uh quite easy to pick up some new recipes and even pick up some new cooking skills. So it's uh so I would recommend that.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

And is that a perk for the QMS staff? Do you get to taste the wares of the chefs after after they've cooked up?

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Uh yes. Yeah, if there is some left over, we allow the choice up.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Brilliant. Well, it's been great speaking to you today, Abby, and uh enjoy the Highland show. Thank you. Thank you, Kristen. You too. Thanks for listening to this episode of the QMS podcast. We hope you find the discussion informative and useful.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

If you've got a question that you'd like us to ask in a future episode, please send it to us by commenting on the social media channels or by using the anonymous submission link in the episode description.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please do share it with others across the Scottish red meat industry. Thanks for listening.