5 Things to Consider Before Projecting

 On this episode, Coach Gabe Olson shares his wisdom and expertise in climbing mindset, intention, and skills development. We talk about 5 things to consider when you are projecting a climb and how to improve your chances of success!

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Dr. Tyler Nelson @c4hp
Coach Gabe @technicallystrong
Coach Collin @liftsmcgee

www.camp4humanperformance.com 

Transcript

Welcome to the Camp four Performance Podcast, the official podcast of Camp four Human Performance, A company started by Dr. Tyler Nelson. To give you the most practical and up to date, rock climbing information on rehab training and performance today, it's Coach Gabe. And I'm Coach Gabe is our skills.

There is no one better or has a more wealth of knowledge when it comes to Gabe behind mindset, intentions, skills, drills, tactics, and how to improve your physical on the wall climbing. And today we're gonna talk about projecting and in specific five things that he wants you to consider before you go out and start projecting this season.

So let's get into the podcast.

Today we're gonna talk and try our best to stay away from strength training and all the physical assessment side of stuff and really talk about climbing, and that is Coach Gabe's expertise and his wisdom. This episode is essentially the birth child of what we've always done after every single clinic, and we just kind of sat on the porch afterwards, cracked the beer and said, let's, let's just talk about things and see where things go and be really introspective on what we taught the student's reactions and feedback.

And that's how this conversation's probably gonna go today. It's gonna be nice and flowy and really talk. What to do outside. Especially now the weather for the majority of the world is getting really nice and what we can do to utilize our timeframe, whether it's two weeks or about two months of, of send temperatures wisely.

And so that's why I'm here with Coach Gabe Olson, and he's going to direct me in that direction. What's going on? Yeah, I think today I just wanna talk about, um, you know, things to consider when we're projecting and my approaches towards things. Some things have helped clients, um, and so forth, like keeping it pretty, pretty open.

Uh, but I first, I think let's just start with like, for you, what are you, what are your best and worst habits when it comes to projecting for yourself? Hmm. I. My best habit when it comes to projecting is maybe to a fault, kind of believing it can go like I am. I can get on to climb all the time, all day, every day.

I, I know not to cut myself off when I'm getting tired and whatnot because I know the quality of improvements going down, but I don't really get turned off too easily. Uh, I don't know if that came from like my baseball background and striking out a billion times and, you know, you gotta show up again the next day, but I.

I can stick with a project for a long time and make literal, micro adjustments, realize that the progress is there. Note that come back. I think that's my best quality when it comes to projecting. I can stick with, no, that's huge. Like optimistic , like just being optimistic is like one of the best traits, you know?

And then that's, that's a great one. What about worst? I think because I am still a baby in the climbing world, only about maybe like five or six years and even less when it comes to caring about footwork , um, being able to identify useful beta and I think I get kind of married to a move. And I kind of think about when you came out to Pennsylvania and helped me on my projects when it was snowing.

Um, and just a little bit of rain. Nuance and rain. Yeah. Rainy. That was so cold. . Um, but I still got my high point and the little nuance into how you moved your body to make. The move I was doing, which felt like a nine out of 10 because I was just kind of like going straightforward, dead, pointing into something a little bit more smooth and more realistic and added to the optimism that, oh wow, this thing could really go if I started doing this.

Um, and so I think that tunnel vision in this is the way and not being able to better identify extra beta or other options is my, my. . That's, uh, that's a kind of funny because, so my best habit is what I said is finding the beta that best fits me. Mm-hmm.  and that like, whether nobody else does it, that's fine.

Like, I, like, I love to look at hard climbs and be like, oh, like, well, why don't we just do this way? Or like, everyone's using this. What if you just resequence that or you, you know, grab this foot chip or something instead. Um, and so finding beta that fits myself, but also because I've been a coach for years, I'm good at looking at somebody else that I'm working with and being like, oh, well, like this beta would be good for you.

And so I think like finding beta is that fit the athlete, whether it's myself or others. It's one of my biggest strengths when it comes to like hard climbing strike, uh, or project. I would say my worst though, um, probably comes from my years of just rope climbing and then and approach to like early years of climbing.

But my worst would be accepting that projects are hard and trying hard is hard, you know, like that it's not going to go down quickly. And so maybe on top of that would be that. , it's hard for me to fall a lot in front of others when I know that somebody else who I may be falling in is going to flash my project.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Which, you know, that's partially ego thing, but it also goes to show like, I need to be on that route. And they didn't, you know, and so that's, that's good. You know, like, and I can, most of the time I'm good about still learning from them where I'm like, whoa, they, they're able to flash something.

I'm projecting like what mechanics are, like, what happened? That I like am not seen, so sometimes I can use it productively. But I would say that the trying hard is, is like at a, at a limit. And accepting that I'm gonna be on this long term is a problem of mine. Right. We, I'm not used to it. Yeah. We talked a lot about that.

Uh, this weekend at Cornell when we did the clinic, uh, two of the ladies mentioned that trying hard was some type of skill that they needed to work on. I was like, absolutely, like trying hard is a. It is not something that you are just gonna wake up and be able to do. Like knowing how to go zero to a hundred, whether it's like a low start boulder problem, or if it's a crux move after you're pumped to break through.

A little mental thing is totally crazy. Especially, and I always think back to when you hopped on Alzheimer's on your own, like Attempt 25, super tired, whatever. And I was like, I don't know, maybe you can just kind of go for it. And you're like, yeah, screw it. I'm tired. Why not? And then you almost pulled the boulder.

Yeah. Yeah. Just. Getting after a little bit more than you would normally do. And so those of us that come from a very analytical and technical background, one of your biggest buckets that fills probably trying hard and climbing like footwork doesn't matter. But then the other, sorry. It's true. Where if you are a big muscley, I don't know how to use my feet kind of person, footwork might not be u bad for you.

Yeah. I think this podcast is gonna work out well because I think I have five themes to considerable projecting and I. Somewhere in our intro here, we've hit all five topics that I want to, like  Nice. Bring forward. And so I think we can kind of start off and then see, you know, try to tie it together for people.

Um, first one I would say that everyone should consider, um, is the timeframe. And I think it's something. It's often overlooked, probably when people are projecting is, and like really like asking themselves, you know, like what kind of project is this to you? And so like, is this a project that's in your gym right now?

Is this a project that's at your local Craig? Are you on a climbing trip? Um, you know, or are you breaking into a new grade for your first time? Because I think each one of those has its own timeframe that you have to be kind of comfortable with or. Understand kind of both the expectations, the parameter that's involved in that.

Um, you know, if it's in a gym, like how old is that problem? You know, like it's probably gonna be a reset. Most commercial gyms like it's, it's on a fine, you know, it's on a timeframe. So it's like, maybe did you accept that project? Because it's the new set and you've gotta site that one day. But like, are you gonna be excited about it next week when the new sets up?

You know? So is your project truly a project for you? Um, sometimes I think limit bouldering and projecting gets kind of confused. Um, because I think one is like a limit bouldering in my sense, in my opinion, I guess sometimes can be more about the performance of hard moves. Right? And, and still trying to really send it.

I think projecting is trying to really learn and, and.  and accept that you're gonna be on something and you, it's, it's hard enough for you that you can't just perform on it. You have to actually understand it to be able to perform. So, um, something like that. I think timeframe's interesting. I think local Craigs, um, are amazing for you to try your hardest.

I think, uh, I think. . There's the really cool part about being able to go on a trip and look at the hard classics that you've seen in all the magazines you've heard about, but I think your timeframe to likely get that done as a project, unless you're going to be traveling back to that area often, maybe not as likely, it could be a good goal for your trip, but then you might need to decide like, well, how much time am.

putting, you know, taking out of my trip this one thing. And are you cool with that? Like, you might be psyched that like, yeah, I'm going on a seven day trip and I'm putting all seven days on this one. If you're into that, then great. I'm not saying that's wrong. Um, it's just something to consider. Uh, and then I think, you know, breaking into a new grade, that's kind of an interesting timeframe as well because it might.

Take you a lot longer than you think. Like, like how much, how much time have you put into, you know, you know, building that pyramid or something like that. Like, are you ready to break into that new grid? Are you right on the cusp of it, or is it kind of a goal that's a little out there still? And so are you currently climbing V seven saying that I wanna break into V 10?

You know, like, well, there's grades in between, uh, you know, or if it is just that from eight to nine or whatever the case is, um, that's still a, you know, it's still a big jump. And so what's involved? That would be, I guess, my, my number one thing to consider. Timeframe. Any, any thoughts on that? No thanks.

Tell us. I always think about going to West Virginia, um, which is our local short duration ish trip. It's like six hours from where I'm at in Pennsylvania, and I have a lot of climbs that I'm just like the classics and I'm like, oh, that's my project. That's my project. But looking back at what you just said now, that could be a little.

Unrealistic for me to have a positive association and a positive experience in this projecting process with those climbs. Cuz last year we got there maybe five or six times this year, zero climate trips. It's painful. Um, but it wouldn't be a reflection necessarily on my. Improvement as a climber in general, it's just I haven't had enough time to get there because it's six hours away and time and life and all that kind of stuff.

However, I do have a local crag project and that's where, um, I can have a lot of time. It's 15 minutes away. It's definitely out of my realm, so to speak, kind of thing with that jumping a new grade. But I can see the most progress on it because I have the amount of time. So my efforts and expectations, um, can be met a little bit better there, and I have to.

Be a little bit more realistic and reflect better on the West Virginia type projects or anything like that. So that's, uh, I like that kind of helps me. Yeah, actually I just started thinking a little more with that and I guess it could tie into a couple different things, a little mention, but, um, I do think that you can go to a trip, you know, or go somewhere, try something.

And whether you, you know, if you didn't send it, but you're like, eh, it's gonna be a while from here. Like, it can still be a project that you can take the idea or the difficulty of that boulder and you can still learn from your project back home, whether it's on a simulator or you're setting something or you're doing something similar where you're learning like why that was difficult for you and maybe why, why you didn't send it that trip.

Or, I think there are, you know, there's other professionals. They're learning the movements before they ever see the project. And I think like, you know, um, there's the burden of Dreams, you know, likely's, hard Boulder, but there's like quite a few professionals right now who are like, they have simulators at home for it.

And some of 'em have been practicing the move before, actually, like seeing the boulder of their first time. They've just like watched videos, kind of understood that like the size of the hold and things like that. And they're like creating. They experience before actually getting to the boulder so they can make that project time and that goal, you know, come to reality a little faster.

And so I think their timeframe has started before they even got to the boulder, you know, which is kind of a cool thing is that like your project can, you know, like that, that that's a part of your timeframe is that you can practice and learn. But I think the performance versus the learning, um, is still.

Kind of the difference between those two is they're not going there to just limit Boulder. Right. They're kind of going there to. Discover it, , you know? Yeah, absolutely. Engage, gain some new skills and knowledge. Yeah. The modern age. Forget the video I saw, but I, I think I know what you're talking about, like the modern age of bouldering where you can just 3D scan the boulder and have it shipped to you before you even go to wherever it's, yeah.

That kind of crazy. I think. Yeah. I think there's, like, Aiden Roberts has like the 3D mold of that one, and then I think there's like, uh, vine or something like a Russian, uh, I forgot his name, who, like, he just set his on like the moon. Which is like funny cuz it's like different holds but it's like, yeah, it's the same kind of idea.

You know, like I just grab, go ahead and like, and I think they're both cool ways cuz it's like you don't always need an actual replica. Right? You know, it's, you're trying to understand kind of the move and the distance and the speed that it takes. You'll figure out the rest of the fine tuning later, number two.

Who's all involved in your projecting, and I think you kind of brought that up with us on Alzheimer's, but I think like it's good for you to recognize like, is this a solo mission? Um, do you need, like if you're rope climbing, do you need a Blair? Who's your Blair like, that you actually trust? Same with a spotter.

Um, or do you just need like your support crew or like hype man crew, you know? , are they involved in your process? Is there a, is there a climber who's climbed that, that boulder or climbed above that grade in your group helping you, you know, in that process? So I think projecting doesn't have to be alone, you know, and I think that's both obvious and not obvious to people is that they think like, this is my project, but it's like, well, there can be a lot of other people aiding you in your project.

Um, So yeah, I mean, I think it was funny with like Alzheimer's is like, I had tried a million times, but I kind of tried almost ladada where I'm like putting in a lot of attempts. But it was because I was like, well, if I'm doing everything right, like I shouldn't have to try hard. But then it was like when I'm done and then you're just like, well, what if you just like.

Grab harder and just like  kinda like throw your like technique to the wind and like grip it. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, whatever. And like once I dropped my guard and didn't care, then's suddenly I performed really well because again, like I had somebody else kind of remove me out of my head, give me a different prompt and that prompt was enough.

So it'd be like, oh, high point. And then I could even go back to my technical way and high point back on that. And it was just kind of, it didn't matter what I did, it was better. Mm-hmm.  than my other attempts. Both frustrating and awesome , you know, experience. Cause you're just like, ugh, dumb. Exactly. Um, if you're listening to this, that means everyone needs a column AGI in their background.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Hype man. Hype man. That's right. Um, and I guess, yeah, yeah. Does it matter? Like another thing I guess when I'm talking about the crew is like, doesn't matter to you, who is in that crew because. Like, there are plenty of people I know who like will walk to Craig and be like, Hey, I just need Alay on this.

You know, 12 R Trab climb. And you're like, , what? No. Like don't find just a random person to do that. Like even if it's a safe sport climb, like do you know that person? Like, can they do it? You know? Like some people are really comfortable just having anyone spot them. And anyone and everyone. I am a person who's like, I trust like three people to blame me at my limit, where I'm like, Nope, if you don't know, same way lifestyle.

I don't like, I don't want you to be attached to my rope and I'm a heavy catch. So you are gonna fly like weight matters. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean it, yeah. I mean, I've blame you and like I like. Really competent Blair like, like to do it. But it was one of those things like the first fall I was like, okay, like , like I gotta get used to it.

And. You know, like you're, you're somebody that if a Blair is still feeding you a bunch of slack because they just think that is the right thing to do, it's like, no, no, no, you are the slack. You know, like I am late, you know, like I am the slack. I'm gonna go up already hundred percent. And knowing you were on belay, I was very confident.

It was like, I'm just gonna kind of run this out a little bit more, cuz I know down there is very safe. But in doing so, so that's that dynamic that we're kind of talking about is totally how confidence changes, how attention to detail changes with who you.  and then I guess from the bouldering side, like spotter.

Yes. You know, it's like awesome to have good spotter people who are like managing the pads and taking those elements out from you, like where they're like actually moving pads, keeping it nice and clean and safe landings. That's awesome. I also think though, like I said back on the first one, or like one of my weaknesses was like climbing with people who are stronger or something like that.

Like, am I gonna still perform? Is that gonna be good? Like, you know, am I gonna, is that gonna work well for me or not? Yeah. And I think it's, do I know that person? Do I not know that person? Am I okay in falling in front of that person? Am I not? That's like kind of anything. Um, but I think when, if it's like a busy Craig and you're all getting on, you know, the same boulders or the same rope climbs, it is interesting.

I think I've had a couple experiences where you'll have somebody who's on the wall, like ask the crowd. You know, like, nobody talk, I'm on the wall. You're kind of like, whoa, this is interesting demand. You know? Mm-hmm. , and you're like, what is, what is allowed? You know, like mm-hmm. , like if you come in with your own little crew and you're like, Hey guys, like when I'm on the wall, like I just want it like quiet.

Like I don't need somebody screaming at me and telling me to like, go get it. Go get it. Come on, come on. Like, no, I, I want this, like, that kind of works for that little crew that you went in with that plan. Hey, there's 15 other people here now. Like can you demand the crowd to no longer talk? Hmm.

Interesting. So I think that like has to be a consideration of like right, people you're around when you're choosing to go project and like, are you choosing times where you can set the conditions, you know, um, that's something to consider . Yeah, for sure. Cause. Say, Hey, if my project's in like a busy time, I always think to West Virginia when it's nice out and there's a big river behind you, you probably don't want a project down in Summersville because there's a hundred people floating and boating and it's loud.

So if you're someone that doesn't like getting amplified with noise, probably not a good time to go down there. And so you gotta have to switch around. Maybe that affects your seasons of height. Granted, summertime's not maybe the best ascend temperatures for most climbers, but that kind of speaks to the.

Your environment is gonna shape depending upon where you go, what time of the year it is, who you're with, that kind of thing. Good . Okay. Number three. Uh, when should you start to go for the send on projecting? And I think there's a lot of people who like the second they get to the boulder, like, I'm gonna project this.

And then, okay. Like if this is your project, you probably already have the idea in your head that you're not going to flash it. You know? So if you're not gonna flash it, do you have to?  from the ground the first time. Mm. Like, where's your crux? Like go feel the Holts. How's the top? Is that even a consideration for you?

Like if you're not gonna flash it, why sit at the beginning of the climb every time? Mm-hmm. . Um, and so like, are you ready to send it or have you started to apply different tactics that you aren't applying? Or, or I guess I should say, how do does your projecting tactic. Differ from your flashing and on sighting tactics.

Right. And I think those are very different. Very. This brings me to a quick aside that I brought up your drill or um, teaching mode with your students where you don't start and you don't finish a climb and you just learn how to learn. I. Brought that up at this weekend, and I saw the widest eyes ever.

Like , what do you mean I'm gonna go into a gym and not get to the top? How are you're crazy, dude? I'm like, just the thought. Just the thought. You know, it's, I mean, and that's the thing. The pushback is there because the, I think again, people aren't recognizing what they're trying to. , you know, and I think I, I probably talked about that a little further down actually,  on the list, so we might move back to that, but No, I think it's, that's exactly, it is like, how are your tactics changing?

Um, are you doing individual moves? Are you doing links? Um, are you, have you tried out a bunch of different betas? Like you get a married to a beta? Well that makes sense kind of when you're just trying to send it mm-hmm. . But if you're just trying to learn it and feel positions and say, okay, efficiency.

cool. This, this beta is way easier for this move, but then once I get to that move, getting out of this beta is way harder. I just had that couple days ago where I have this one project that. It's, uh, really, really glassy pinches up to a crimp and then bumped to another terrible glassy pinch. And it's a really high foot and I have a hard time with it.

And if I'm towing into it and going up, the move is extremely hard. But if I heel hook, The foot chip, I can pull extremely controlled to the pinch and just hit it every time, but I cannot get out of the heel hook to then do the next move. Hmm. So it's like I learned this beta that I was like, oh my God, this changes everything.

And I got super efficient at getting to this whole completely static and no energy, but then it's impossible for me to get outta the position. I ended up spending an entire session just trying to get a heel hook back out into a. Without cutting. And so it's like, okay, well I spent a lot of time here, but I didn't think about the next move.

And if I had just set myself in the next move, I knew immediately a heel wasn't gonna be there cuz I would have to jump off a bit. So it's like sometimes just going to the move above and working the move backwards or positioning it allowed me. But if I'm only starting from the bottom, I would just never see it.

That makes, yeah, ton sense. This guy coming to the fork in a road and you're like, oh, this is great. This is gonna take me faster into it. Nope. It's an outlet. You gotta turn around . Sorry. If you would, if you would've just brought up your Google Maps and zoomed out a little bit, you would've saw . But yeah, that's, that's wasted time.

Perhaps a good learning experience. Kinda reiterates maybe learning the hard way about this. Assessing climbs top down versus bottom up scenario. But uh, yeah, that can happen. Oh yeah. That's interesting. It's very interesting. Um, I think that's pretty much all I have to say about three. I think three is a big concept, but not that much to say it's right.

And it makes me think about my project where it is a. 40 foot 10 C that I can almost do blindfolded now and I even turn some of the be maybe the beta talk and go into another. One of your topics, but I end up skipping the last clip before they first climb, or first pitches, anchors to create efficiency and not having to clip off my right hand because the crux move at the way up is a right hand move.

Um, but then there's like a little gray area getting from the anchors of the first pitch to the initiation of the crux up top. Reflecting now on this conversation I might need a little bit more time on, cause I don't think I give as much attention cause it's kinda like this sandwich section. Like I have this thing I'm trying to flow through blindly and then I'm already thinking about the crux move up top.

But I still have about 15 feet to climb and you can mess that up. And looking back on it, I think I need to now. Maybe at this point say, okay, first pitch, cool, I'm just gonna climb that rest completely and turn the second pitch into another climb. Now I want to turn that into this nice flowy thingy and to get more skill and time on that, because I've only ever done the top in send attempts compared to the bottom.

I'm learning. Totally. So that would be, I think what's considered kind of a low pointing tactic is that you actually. Yes, yes. Work their climb backwards. So I, I'm on my last bolt to the chains. Oh, I can do that. I can go this bolt to the chains, this bolt, you know, and you're working it down so that way, like you've got all those moves dialed, you've been fresh for all the hard stuff, and then you've just been adding in a little section.

And so then you're starting to see like, oh, well man, it was really easy for me to go from anchor to, you know, six. . But now when I add in those, those extra, you know, that next bolt, like fifth, sixth to the top, like that suddenly was just enough to get me retire. So there's like probably something in that, that you're like, oh, these couple extra little moves, added something, or there's a positioning or like, there really isn't any arresting anymore.

And so like sometimes I think again, just, uh, whether it's like casual, it doesn't need to be ascend. But just, um, timing your timeframe between bolts and like, you know, if you go up for ascend, like how long do you think it, is it actually gonna take you to climb this climb? And then you can kind of see like, oh yeah, like, I like on my high point attempt.

I got to this anchor in a minute and a half. Okay. And so then it's like, and then from here fully rested to here. I got in this timeframe, like you can kinda look at videos and attempts and being like, well how fast did I move through that? Um, and use it to kind of help whether you need to rest longer or um, you know, head bolts, you know, change the tactic.

Right. Yeah. That's something what I'm gonna be going into, I think. Cause that's gotta be a little bit more useful after I get my.  beta burns on it and just kind of say, Hey, where do I need to allocate my time the most? And that low protein, low pointing tactic sounds a lot like what I needed to do. Yeah, I, I have used it a couple times.

I mean, definitely I think don't fall under the trap of like, if it is extremely easy terrain, like there probably isn't a reason for you to. You know, hammered that side too much, um, because it is just more volume, you know? And so sometimes I'm like, yeah, well you, you do have that dialed. And so it's like the second where you're like, oh, this is hard.

I should kind of learn those sections. And you can kind of low point in those. And I like to, you know, my entering the crux and exiting the crux by at least a bolt or two, I think. . It's the important part, right? Um, for me anyways, um, that's what kind of has really dialed me in. The rest of it is, doesn't mean I'm not gonna pay attention to, um, I'm gonna, you know, like give the move credit.

Even 10 d moves are hard at, you know, like they add things to 'em, right? Um, that's the reason their 10 D and not, you know, five, nine, or, you know, or whatever the case is. Like it is harder. And by great, you know, multiple steps. So for four, are you climbing your project? Kind of via submission or by climbing it with intention.

And so like, are you just gonna attempt it enough to kind of hope that things clicked and you stuck the moves and you just sent it? Or are you learning from each past attempt and you're actually paying attention to like, From your mistakes in the previous attempts, what happened? Like why did that idea not work?

Why did that attempt not work? And now on your next attempt, you're actually gonna place intention on what you're doing? Or are you just, oh, I fell, I'm gonna get back on, I'm gonna rapid fire it and tell I see success, and then if I happen to send it, like I'm just like, woo-hoo, I did my project and I move on.

If you probably got right back on that climb or you revisited it again, you would probably fall multiple times. Again, like I think that's kind of the difference is climbing with kind of via submission I think is closer to kind of the performance side of it where it's like, which is kind of weird in a way, but like I'm going to just throw at the climb enough until I land it verse learning why I am not landing it the majority of the time.

Um, and so I think, yeah, like if you're really paying attention to each attempt and, and not essentially giving yourself the excuses, like I think of, you know, how many times have you heard it or said it to yourself or anything like that. Like people are trying something really hard and he immediately, that's when the, you know, I suck.

I am, you know, I'm not strong enough. It's a weird move. All that stuff flows out. The thing that I think is a habit is that all of that, those sentences that you said are probably somewhat true.  , but, but like you're not finishing the thought. And I think what I mean by that is like I suck at heel hooks. , if that gave me a point of direction to focus on, right?

My next attempt I can focus on like, why am I heel? I'm not like that person's holding their attention and levering up. Mine's slipping out. Like, there you suck at heel hooks. Now focus on them and learn about 'em. Ask about them. Bring it back to your gym. Like something like that. Like I'm not strong. Like, I'm not strong enough to maybe hold this position.

Is my hip up right? Like, I'm not strong enough to be in or, or move in or out of this position. Okay, well, are, am I correct? Am I in the correct position? You know, so I think holds can feel way harder if you're in the wrong position. You know, and so I think that's something that people are like, oh, I'm not strong enough.

I'm like, well, yeah, like I'm not strong enough to be in the wrong beta. You know, like  . Like, you know, like that's really hard. Like I can make something harder. How do you know you're right? Hundred percent. You know, I've made five plane, five 13 all my life so far. Yeah. I mean that's the thing is you can climb easy stuff a really hard way.

And I think, so that's part of it. And then like, One of my pet peeves with like, you know, team kids. For sure. I hear this a lot, but I hear this from everyone and I've said it probably funny too, is like, it's weird. Who cares? Who told you it was meant to be comfortable? Like when is rock climbing meant to be comfortable?

Like I think that's, it's weird is just, that's okay. Like learn to manage being uncomfortable. Mm-hmm.  like that is a skill alone. Mm-hmm. , like that's a big part of projecting is how do you comfort that position? For you not to think about the weirdness and the uncomfortable side, but like, oh, here's the position to now get out of it.

Like if it's uncomfortable, learn to get out of it. Right. But you just saying it's weird. Just essentially says, well, I should quit, like mm-hmm. . Okay. I don't wanna do anything that makes me feel uncomfortable. Okay. That, I mean, if you wanna accept that answer, then that's fine. I mean, gym climbing and commercial gym climbing will probably be something.

Appealing to you because it tends to be more comfortable Competition climbing probably be very against you because you'll probably hate it because it's very uncomfortable. It's not meant to be fun. Right? It's meant to challenge you. Same with like kind of weird climbs. Like there's this, there's a good weird and bad weird, you know, at times, but realistically that's weird.

Is okay. Yeah. And I think a lot of people forget that. Absolutely. Definitely a mindset. Coming into something and seeing thing as a challenge rather than just writing it off. Kinda like I said, that's weird. Like, oh, I quit. I don't wanna do this. You know, I always see that from a movement side of things where movement variability is what makes good rock climbers.

The more your body can access, the more tools in your tool bag makes you a better climber for something else maybe in your style. So if it's weird now, it's gonna be helpful later, even if it doesn't seem. Absolutely. Um, and, uh, you know, that that position may be weird, but you can also probably create that same position in more comfortable holds maybe.

So like, and just get used to being in that small box, like a really high foot, you know, or something like that is kind of a weird, uncomfortable position. So it's like you can try to like, mimic those and, and set those. Weird positions up on holds and stuff that you enjoy more and just kind of expose yourself slowly to it.

You don't have to just do it on that move, but, um, yeah, I mean, like, kind of on this whole topic, like, I think like all in all like climbing with intention and like really feeling the detail, like every detail of the rock and what's going on in your body, uh, to make the moves. Like, yeah. Essentially just feeling everything executing on that feeling and then reflecting upon the, you know, what happened, whether I sent it or I fell, that that is projecting.

Ah-huh. . And so if you like,  being that present in the moment is extremely tiring. Yep. And being and, and being that like aware all the time. So I think, you know, you have to kind of give yourself a little bit of grace in the sense that like the tiring and the heart of the project might not be physical, but it's just the mental capacity that it's taking to perform.

Like the act of learning is often much harder than the. Learned, you know? Mm-hmm. , so, oh yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. You know, that's the thing is like, yeah, like that. I think that's a huge part of projecting is that you have to be willing to pay attention and learn and get mentally tired. , you know, in a way. It brings me back to this weekend talking about some program examples and samples, and we went over like in a sample strength phase where we might be getting heavy on our fingers two to three days a week, and, uh, introduced like a fun day that you can climb, but like have it focused on a skill or, or something like that.

And one of their questions that came up was like, well, when do we get to climb? You, you are planning, are you not? But I kind of forgot the little context. Come like this is a training focused session and from the outside, not everyone's goal is to be so optimizing on training or so optimizing on projecting.

So you do have to self-reflect on how much do you want this in a sense and how much are you willing to invest? But make sure that your expectations.  go up or down with that. So don't expect a ton out of anything if you're not projecting hard or if you're not training hard. But it's not to say that you have to do those things.

And so I thought it was funny just because like, oh, you're climbing four days a week. What do you mean you're, oh, you're right. Like some of these people don't want to just like, I have a plant every single time. And I think that's a hundred percent valid. Mm-hmm. , like, I think climbing by submission isn't a bad thing.

If your intention isn't to get something faster in that timeframe or the focus, like that's just, I'm, I'm climbing it by submission because I'm having fun rock climbing. Like, that's great. And so I think again, there's, it's not bad, it's just maybe. You know, matching other things that we're looking for, which is in our timeframe, how fast do we want this to go down?

Right. You know, do we actually care if we break into the next grade or not? Like right. Are we on a multi, you know, we could be five seasons from now or it could be next week. Like, we don't care. Right. Then something like that's, that's awesome. Like if climbers don't need to always be trying to perform and, and treat this like they're trying to be a professional, like this is just a hobby.

Cool. Have fun. Like you don't need to be training all the time. Right. Um, so I think yeah, that's a really important thing is absolutely you can like training and not have to do it all the time. Exactly. It's just kind of knowing what it could do for you if you want it. Yeah. Or, uh, you know, realistically, like when you, if you are running into those injuries or you are running into, you know, things like that, like strength training helps you climb more, you know, and so I think that's the thing is like, you don't need.

Apply all these training drills on the wall all the time. You could go lift to help make you more robust and then just go climb. Right. But I think, yeah. I'll let, I'll let, let the climber choose. . . It is your journey. It's your journey. Not us. Exactly. Yeah. We're just here to aid and help all, we're not here to tell you what to do.

That's right. Um, number five. . Yeah. Probably for me, I put, uh, knowing when to move on. Hmm. And I think that is a part of projecting is like, it's closely related to number one in the sense of like the timeframe management, but also I think there's a lot more factors involved because you've tried and you have considered a lot of other things along the way.

And it's either just not working out at the time and like moving on doesn't mean giving up. It might just be moving it to the next season or the next year, or that you recognize like, whoa, I don't have that skillset for this, this climb or this grade right now. I just need to go back in and put in the work on similar styles and things like that.

So, I mean, um, One of my examples I guess right now is that like I've always been a sport climber, always been known for face and slab climbing. I think I've probably done one, two, maybe three sessions of face and slab climbing in the last two years because I've tried to actually work on my weaknesses and to like learn how to, to climb steep and get something much more kind of out of my element.

Because anytime I would want to push my grade locally, what we have is we don't have any hard stuff that are faced in slab climbing. So if I want to go try these other things, it's gonna be on steep climbing. But if I wouldn't allow myself to be on it, I couldn't gain the skills to suddenly go out and expect me to get it.

And so I could, you know, yep, this is gonna be my project. , but I didn't know how to climb on it. Like I didn't know how to project it. Cause I didn't know how to do that type of climbing. Right? Yep. And so it's like I've had to put seasons and take away from my strengths a little bit because I actually am trying to tap into something that like we have more of.

And that style that I happen to be around, I have more of. And a couple, it's probably one of those three sessions or you know, or couple sessions was a, uh, maybe last.  climb with two clients and, uh, we just climbing around the gym. But it was funny. I gotta go back to face climbing and side climbing and I loved it.

Mm-hmm. , like I had a great time, but I was, I pretty much immediately good at it again, cuz I, it's like I've had 11 years doing that. Like I haven't done it in two years, but I know how to do that. Mm-hmm. . And so even in that one session, like. Yeah, I've taken that time away, but the skills have stayed. I have a great understanding of how those, how I move on that, but I, and, but overhang is still a battle for me cause it's only a couple years of truly trying to learn it and not just hope.

I get lucky on the hold and operate it a little bit, but understand like how to apply a pattern or a t. To that climb. So, you know, and that's his thing. Time, time under tension in a way. Time on the wall. Right? It's like 11 years, hundred two years. Makes sense. I, uh, I hate slap climb as much as the next person.

Oh, maybe not you, but I love it. Yeah. Yeah. , I love it. But God damnit, if it didn't help me climb better, especially when things that looked face climby or overhung involved slab like features and. Damn it. I gotta use this foot in this way. I don't know how to do this. And so you spend a little bit of time doing the other skill and you come back and you can do the thing you want to.

And I think that might maybe speak to a sub, maybe like a bonus sixth thing to do. Um, and maybe your thoughts on, maybe you just said is like climbing things out of that project's style or out of your style and how it can aid in. Patterning and skills and tools and toolbox to then do that specific thing a little bit better.

I agree that, I think that's really important to do. I would say I don't put it, the reason I wouldn't put that in with the projecting is probably because that's just great skill development as a climber. But if you're, to me, I think projecting is leaning into a strength at the time or projecting something of that type of skill that you're looking for.

Um, and so like, I think you can have slab projects and, and overhang projects. Definitely. And they, and they might be vastly different in grades and things like that. And so I guess I'm not necessarily, yeah, I mean, it can apply. You have to climb multiple styles if you want to climb multiple styles, right?

Mm-hmm. . And so it's like, yeah, if you don't climb base climbing very often it's going to be hard for you, even though you can cruise anything. Steep roof, you know. Put the time where it's needed, but it's only needed if you care about it. Gotcha. Like, you probably aren't gonna go climb a bunch of slabs out in Yosemite or, or like dig that like, I love to climb slabs.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , but I just don't have enough or either around me. Mm-hmm.  and I kind of have the skillset and so now I, I want spend my time somewhere else. Um. That being said, one of the most, one of the closest Craigs to me, I've gone to it three times in 10 years living here and stuff because it is the anti style of, like, I just don't even care about it.

It's thuggy, roof climbing, , and like, it's just something I don't care about. And, and so, but it has the grades that I like. It has probably the best grade range of stuff that I want to do. Like it's got upper thirteens and fourteens and cool stuff that would be good for me. I could learn and spend a ton of time gaining that skill, but the style does not appeal to me.

Mm-hmm. , that area is beautiful. You gonna climb over a waterfall, you gotta do all this thing. That's kind of cool. I like to hang out there, but I don't want to take those skills somewhere else. Like I don't wanna travel to another area to do that style of climbing, cuz it's not, it's not my style. It's not something I enjoy.

Right. Maybe in time, maybe next season. Something will switch and I'll That's strong. Fingers. Come in, dude. Yeah, that's right. Now , I don't wanna do it because I have a couple other things, but maybe like that's the coolest part about climbing. Every season, every year we can switch to a different discipline and kind of start the game of learning and projecting in something else.

Like I can get into Triad, I can get into face climbing, and I can get into overhang, roof climbs, like I can find it and the skills are gonna be waiting there because I haven't put the time into 'em. . And so that time under attention or time on the wall just hasn't been there. Right? And so, yeah, I think that's another big thing to consider is, is that project hard for you, but because you didn't put the time in to it, you know, uh, I think that's gonna be very different.

Oh, absolutely. That's a good list. Um, and so for the listeners we wanna start doing, I mean, especially if you have any questions, man, shoot us questions, comments, and all that kind of stuff. Um, we can tailor these a little bit more specifically to anything like that. We do have a ask the coaches episode planned and that theme plan for the future.

Um, But these things are always, you know, it's gonna be in general. And so how to apply them specifically to you comes from asking us questions, either personally or, you know, through coaching and whatnot. Um, but this was very thorough. I know I learned a lot. I've got some ideas and some reflections to do on the things I wanna do, and especially to continue to expand.

Skills as a, as a climber, and then be able to apply them coming back into something more. Um, so I'm gonna, I'm excited. I guess I could give like a, a prompt to the listeners and to you. Like, I just did this with two, two athletes, uh, I guess last night, two minutes ago. Anyways, um, I love working with these two because they're strengths are polar opposites and, but it was kind of cool to just, when you're, they're asking like, Hey, what should I be working on?

And I was like, well, I mean, again, like I can give. Giving somebody a skill and a drill doesn't mean it's gonna actually apply to them. And so like you have to kind of want to learn a skill or a drill and then go seek it. And they're like, well, which one should I spend the time on? I'm like, well, what ones are you avoiding?

And to get 'em to answer that is before the session started, I just had them walk around the gym and just. Don't touch anything, but if you've seen it before, if they've been on it before or looked at it and kept walking cuz they got either intimidated by it or something like that, had a lesson in there mm-hmm.

like, there's a lesson right there. Like, okay, why have like, oh, you are having a hard time standing on those bad feet. How many, how many climbs in this gym with bad feet have you? They're pretty much actively avoided all of these areas.  an expert. Oh, I'm terrible at like powerful moves and steep stuff.

Cool. Like, where are you avoiding? I've never been to that back room before. Oh. Where all the steep, powerful stuff is. Yeah. You know, so it's like they absolutely knew the answer. And if you just said, okay, walk the gym, where do you avoid? You know, like, what have you been on? That was hard for you no matter what the grade was, even though, and you probably didn't finish it because you were like, oh my.

I had this hard thing, I fell on a three and I normally climb eights. It's like that three has a million lessons for you. Yep. Who cares what that eight has over there? You know? So I think part of it is just we all know what we should be working on and that when we ask for skills and, and drills that you're probably not asking for the ones that you need.

Uh, you're probably looking for other things that are. But it's like, yeah, I mean, chances are you need to just learn how to pull on steep overhang and, you know, on this thing and, or you need to learn how to press through these bad feet, like Right. You know, and so whatever the case is, or carry momentum, not go static, you know, all the time.

Um, and so walk the. What do you actively avoid? What do you look at and say, Ew, that's probably good. You know, that's probably a tell sign that there's something there. You don't have to enjoy it, but you probably have your most low handing fruit of anything you cringe by. That's awesome. And that will be the homework for you guys.

So you guys are gonna let us know in our Instagrams, again, at technically Strong at Lips McGee. At c4, hp. You walked by, you said, ill, then you actually got on and what lesson you learned and you're gonna let us know, um, and we'll start sharing those and talking about those. So that's a wrap. Ow. Thank you everyone for tuning in today and listening to today's podcast with Coach Gay Olson.

I hope you guys have learned as much as I did. I always take something incredibly valuable from any conversation that I have with Gabe, whether it's out at the Craig or after clinics, or even just over our Zoom calls. Remember, coach Gabe can help you one-on-one and help clarify these concepts for you specifically.

He works with clients from all around the world remotely, helping them work through the projects, climb and improve their technical skills. So make sure you visit our website, camp four human performance.com. If you're looking to improve your climbing skills, tactics, or behaviors with coach gay Bolson.

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