Diva Tonight with Carlene Humphrey
Diva Tonight with (Carlene Humphrey) offers a unique blend of personal anecdotes, expert insights, and candid conversations, providing a safe and supportive space for listeners to explore their relationships and personal growth.
this is 40 a female perspective focuses on celebrating life at 40, what it means to live life and be happy with who you are.
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Diva Tonight with Carlene Humphrey
Are We Becoming Prisoners of Our Own Online Bubbles?
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Hi, my name is Carlene and welcome to Diva. Tonight, the podcast for women who are 40 and older and just a different perspective altogether and actually tonight we're going to change things up a little bit may not necessarily talk about life at 40, but we are going to talk about online communities, online chambers, with my colleague, ashley Newport of InSaga. Before we start the conversation about echo chambers is what you were saying I do want to say I read an article that you wrote recently. I was doing my homework and I think it's quite interesting that now they're starting to do operations with robots. I just read an article that you wrote where one of the patients this woman who lives in Brampton she's one of the first people to have assisted surgery with a robot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so not not one of the first. Well, kind of sort of yeah, not exactly Right, yeah, so kind of sort of. So the technology is relatively. My understanding is. I'm not a doctor or a medical expert, but I am very fortunate that I get to talk to quite a few for stories, so I've learned a lot from them. But there is a technology called well, actually they call it ROSA. It stands for Robotic Surgical Assistant, and so far I think there's probably a lot of robot assisted procedures, but this is specifically for like knee replacements procedures, but this is, uh, specifically for like knee replacements.
Speaker 3:So I was, uh, we have a good, you know, relationship with william osler health system, who runs a few hospitals in the gta, namely, uh, the one you'd be most familiar with would be brampton civic. Uh, they are brampton civic, so we write a lot about them for in saga. I was chatting back in early february with osler and they said that they were going to be coming up on their 1000th procedure with Rosa and they're only they're one of only three hospitals in Ontario that offer Rosa for knee surgeries. So, yeah, this woman who said her legs were in horrific shape, she said she was literally crawling like a child before she had her first knee done in September and then when she had her second knee done in March, that was the 1000th procedure with Rosa, so they were kind of excited. So technology has not been in Canada that long only since 2023, I think. I think that was at least the first surgery at Brampton Civic was 2023.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm glad that this woman was able to get the surgery that she needs, because it seems like it was life changing, so now she can do things that she wasn't able to do. Right, so yes, Yep.
Speaker 3:But like her and her husband were telling me that she was able to walk up the stairs to their home, they're actually planning a trip to India in the summer and she was saying that she'd been in pain since 2009. That's a long time, forever, forever. So it took 14 years, 15 years sorry, 15 years to get that final knee operated on from you know which is. It's honestly insane and like nauseating. How long ago 2009 was yeah, that is scary.
Speaker 2:I know, I was just thinking about, like I. I don't remember 2009, but I remember 2008, when we graduated from York and I don't think I realized that we were dealing with like an economic downturn, in a way where it was so hard to find work, like Wall Street crash so hard to find work, like when Wall Street crashed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we were. I was kind of I was insulated from that too, because I, you know, I I actually graduated in 2007 from York.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh yeah, the year before.
Speaker 3:Oh you, you did it in four years. I did it in four years, yeah, yeah. So I did the program four years, worked at my dad's office for a few months and then decided in the winter of 2008 that I was going to go back to school. So that's when I applied for the journalism program at Sheridan, got into that. So basically, when things were going off the rails with the economy, I was a little insulated from it because I was in school, so not in the job market. And then I was very fortunate because 2010, I did an internship and then I was fortunate that after that internship wrapped up, a few months later, they actually hired me for a contract job. So I did that with them for about a year and a half. So then after that I was able to go back to my dad's office. So I wasn't really pounding the pavement during that time. So I was fortunate that we are now in other very harsh economic times and so far so good.
Speaker 3:Knock on wood, knock on wood. Yeah, I feel like my job is okay for now, of course, because we're not really impacted by tariffs in media. Yeah, you worry, of course, about knock on effects, right, like if you know, know, because everything's uh, it's all a community, everyone's connected. So you know media survives on. You know advertisers, and if advertisers are tightening their belts you never know what you know the effects will be.
Speaker 3:But we've, you know, been very resilient through the past. You know the challenges of the past few years, very resilient through covid, and we've been busy. Honestly we've been busy, Honestly we've been busy. There's been lots of news, there's been lots of readership and engagement. We've been busy. We're lucky so far. But I mentioned my dad's company where I had worked off and on for many, many years. He's no longer with us but the company remains and pretty much my whole family works there and it is a company that specializes in, you know, imports, exports, shipping and receiving that sort of thing. So tariffs are definitely a huge concern for them. So it's been a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear around that. So that's been honestly terrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's actually mind-boggling because, like you said, your family business is impacted by these tariffs. And I mean, obviously I just read the headline and I'm sure you did, because you're in news and so you're always watching what's going on and so even the company I work for is directly impacted because Of course, of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, directly impacted because, yeah, so, like I mean, it's interesting when I have customers coming in asking for products that they normally drink without realizing that it's made in the US. It may not be produced, like you know, they're not produced, but it may not be like what do you call it like an American drink, but because it's produced in the US, we took it off the shelf. And it's interesting because, you know, when it's not available, people are asking for it. Right, some people realize that it is and some people don't know what to say at this point, other than I hope that people vote at this election because it will affect, you know, trade relations in the next few months.
Speaker 3:Like I mean, I don't, I don't know if there's any you know it's kind of sad about it with this election coming up is I don't think there's anything we can do. I don't think there's anything we can do as Canada. I don't think there's anything we can do about this. It's not really something that we can. That's not true. There are things we can do to respond to it, but I don't think there's anything we can do to prevent it. No, we can't.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, like we can, we could send our and obviously I'm not in government and I'm not an expert you know you could send your finest negotiators, you could send, you know, the sharpest people. You've got to come up with retaliatory measures, which which we have to beg and plead and cajole and flatter and do everything in their power to try to kind of carve out exemptions for these tariffs. But at the time, you know, at the same time, these tariffs were initiated by the US and not just like Donald Trump. Yeah, trump came out, said I want these tariffs, and it seems like he can kind of steamroll over everyone. We haven't really seen much, if any, moves to stop him. He seems very unstoppable at this point. So I think you know you have to vote for the party that you think is best equipped to handle it, either by diversifying trade with other countries and by keeping the economy as strong as possible under the circumstances.
Speaker 3:But I think that when people say there's going to be pain, you know you can't transition overnight. You can't undo 60 years of yeah like trade overnight. Uh, you can't. Basically, this country has, you know, the us has turned to us and said I'm going to roll over on you, I'm going to crush you. Um, if you don't like it, you can be our 51st state, uh, which is not a fair negotiating yeah, it's. It's basically like we can do this the easy way or the hard way. Uh, it's very. You can be our 51st state, which is not a fair negotiating yeah, it's basically like we can do this the easy way or the hard way. It's very mobster, like so, and I don't think there's anything we could have done to prevent it.
Speaker 2:And I don't think there's close bond with the United States of America because of the US dollar and how it's used all over the world. In many ways, we could go on a long history, a long historical conversation about it, but what I do have to say is that I feel like the only solution would have been doing business with other countries, but that's something that you do over time and do that overnight, and we didn't do that in the first place yeah, yeah again, this isn't you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean of expertise, but I know and neither is mine, but I mean, I do read on history and and certain things. Obviously, this is not my, my expertise and, like you said, you're not an expert on it either, but I do think, based on your own experience, like with following the news channels and and just doing your own personal research, that you do have, yeah, opinion on it. Yeah, I think you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, we, we've put our we're in a bad, we're in a bind. We kind of the expression goes uh, putting all your eggs in one basket, we, because of the convenience of having them be long term eternal almost allies and being literally next door, we have, you know, a very large undefended border. We kind of said you know we're set, you know we'll trade with them. And I think something again don't quote me on this, even though I'm saying it on your podcast I think like over 50 percent of our exports potentially go to the US. So you know, we put ourselves in a vulnerable position by relying on one country to be our main, biggest, best trading partner. So now when they turn around and say well, we're going to make trade excessively difficult by making it 25% more expensive at a time when we're already in a cost of living crisis, at a time when our economy is very shaky because of, you know, we haven't grown in the past 10 years.
Speaker 3:We kind of pivoted away from selling and taking advantage of our natural resources. There's been, you know, a lot of shift to like green energy, which is seems all fine and well and good when you have concerns about climate change and other things. But we've been kind of caught flat-footed, and I think that the thing that's most shocking about this is that you can have a really great you mentioned, you know, a long, great relationship, but it doesn't have to be you know, a series of fights with a country that put you on the outs. It just has to be. In this particular case, the country elects a lunatic who's like I don't like you and I'm going to punish you and I'm going to destroy your economy. And if you don't like it, well, you can become part of our country.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't understand the whole 51st state thing. I don't know where this idea came about. I don't see that happening. We've always been separate. I don't see Canadians being okay with the idea of becoming a 51st state. No, no.
Speaker 3:And one thing, yeah, one thing that I find a little bit funny reading some American media about it, where they're like, oh you know how would it happen. They kind of try to take apart the mechanics of it. They kind of try to like rationalize and explain you know the process, and it's like I don't think you understand that this is not like acquiring a company, this isn't like purchasing a house. You, we, we've, our continent, really has never known in our lifetime and in the in our lifetime, um, and in the lifetime of our parents and in the lifetime of our grandparents, has never known. You know, really, on the ground, conflict, um, that's not to say that there's never been war or battles on north american soil. Obviously there have, but conflicts have by and large in the past, you know, 100 years, been abroad, they have not been here.
Speaker 3:So to act like we're somehow a nerd or that this would just somehow be, you know a bureaucratic thing, you know rolling, you know you know going saying telling another country no, you, you belong to us, now your land belongs to us, uh, leads to years, if not decades upon decades, of violence and unrest and warfare. And I think the lightness with which sometimes this is treated in the US like. I mean, in a sense it means that they don't think it's going to happen and the idea of it happening is still quite wild. But it's come up consistently and often and constant. It is a huge threat, a threat that people should be taking seriously and that's, you know, something to think about. The federal election coming up is like who's the best person? What's the best party? Who are the best people to shore up our defenses Literally, Well, I mean I have my opinion on both parties.
Speaker 2:You know, pierre Poglia, opinion on both parties. You know, pierre Poglia. Just, I guess they from people who've been researching the political campaign and what Canadians are think are important, you know they say the Conservative Party is a good choice if you're looking at immigration, but if we're looking at trade relations and dealing with the united states, donald trump you know they say, the liberals is probably a better choice because donald trump apparently thinks that you know it's a little bit, he would prefer to live deal with the liberal party versus the conservative. I mean so he says.
Speaker 3:He says a lot of stuff two years and also, you know, we talked about health care. Our health care system completely buckled and has not been able to recover and doesn't seem like anyone's interested in helping it recover, which is quite sad, uh, devastating and terrifying actually. But you know, we hear about little know bits and bobs moving here and there. Maybe there'll be a new hospital here, maybe some more beds there, but we don't really see a fundamental shift in how the system is managed, which is unfortunate. But of course, you know, beyond that, there was talk right in the midst of recovering from COVID about labor shortages, a lot of businesses and companies saying you know they couldn't get workers, a lot of businesses and companies saying you know they couldn't get workers. And at the time, during the thick of things, I was still writing for a furniture trade magazine called the Home Goods Home Goods Online or slash the Home Goods Merchandiser. I've been writing for this trade magazine for about 12, 13 years, I think. Yeah, it was a fantastic, fantastic little side gig, loved it. And I was writing, you know, during COVID, when I was, you know, on mat leave and everything. And one thing I was hearing a lot too from you know people in the furniture industry was they couldn't find workers everywhere. They couldn't find workers for the warehouse, they couldn't find workers for delivery, they couldn't find you know workers for the stores, for the retail, and I think that this caused a lot of panic and there was a lot of pushing and lobbying by you know companies to get you know workers through the door as fast as possible, and this was obviously a temporary problem, right Like COVID was hugely disruptive and terrible, and it seems like it opened the floodgate, though, to really quick and fast and unsustainable immigration really quick and fast and unsustainable immigration.
Speaker 3:And Canada's, you know a country of immigrants and has, you know, traditionally prided itself on its immigration system, but it just we went pretty wild, you know. We started taking in significantly more people than we could house. Suddenly, the rental rates were through the roof. As you know many people experience, rental rates were climbing significantly month over month. Housing prices, which had been climbing astronomically for the past 10 years, were like shooting up even higher Suddenly. No one could get jobs, no one could find houses, and there was even people don't talk about this as much as they should, but you might recall, and I think it was two summers ago now. There was a horrific incident, scandal really, where a significant number of refugees, I want to say from sudan, were obviously given. You know, they were welcomed to canada as as refugees is this before?
Speaker 2:this is after. Justin promised to bring more refugees into the country, right this? Was like because it sounds after his first term, because it was after the first year, it was certainly this was during his.
Speaker 3:I want to say it was during his third. It was during his term, so this was in 20. I want to say this was 2023. I'd have to fact check it, but I feel like this was 2023, possibly 2024. It was fairly recent and, of course, you know people fleeing war.
Speaker 3:So Canada offers asylum to a huge number of refugees from Sudan. Asylum to, you know, a huge number of refugees from Sudan. They come to Toronto and they ended up sleeping on the street for the better part of three weeks. I want to say there was just nowhere for these people to go. Nobody knew what to do. Every system was paralyzed. That the federal government had let them in, but the city did not have shelter space for them. Just straight up didn't have any shelter space for them because, as you know, we've got quite the shelters are full. There's encampments, mental health and poverty crisis, kind of compounding things, and I believe a church ended up stepping up to take them in and, who knows, maybe some of these poor souls are still sleeping in pews. But it was quite a scandal and and just pretty awful.
Speaker 3:So you know, going into this particular election, I think that people were prior to trump. Uh, they were very ready to turf the liberals because one, they'd been in power for 10 years. People were tired of them. Two, they had genuine reason to be upset. There was severe mismanagement of the immigration system and that had kind of exploded.
Speaker 3:You know that kind of pushed the housing crisis further, made the health crisis worse, of exploded. You know that kind of pushed the housing crisis further, made the health crisis worse. It's because you know you have all these people coming in. You already don't have a very robust healthcare system, so now you're putting more pressure on it. More people, inevitably more people, need to use it. So, and then, of course, you know inflation was high, the cost of living was astronomical still is. You know you had the government sending out rebates for grocery prices, because every grocery shops costing 200 bucks, and these are all still problems. But trump has been a game changer because it went from being an election about your average kind of meat you used the term meat and potatoes earlier about being a meat and potatoes election, literally about meat and potatoes and not being able to afford them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean, according to the statistics, it's like number one, canadians are more concerned with the trade war and then number two it's the cost of living and the food prices. You know, it hasn't changed, it's gotten worse.
Speaker 3:It's, it's, it's bad, it's bad and I think tariffs could make this worse. Actually, I was talking to someone today. I'm working on a feature for our newest website called your city within. It's more lifestyle focused, but I'm doing a story about the restaurant landscape, which is kind of, you know, lifestyle-y in toronto, because I've just noticed a lot of closures of restaurants. I kind of wanted to get to the bottom of it and see if there's been, you know, an uptick in closures year over year compared to openings. Long story short, yes, there has been, and I was asking you know about, you know, the impact of tariffs because, of course, it affects alcohol, it can affect ingredients, it can affect food.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so the thing with, with with certain rules when it comes to alcohol this, this, I know, is that there's certain alcohol we don't make here in Canada because of the laws and regulations, so we don't produce bourbon, and so that's been an American thing that there, in terms of the supply that we were provide, that you know, know, lcbo was providing. You know what I mean. So there, yeah, there's there's certain things. Unless they're gonna, we're gonna change the laws with that and then all of a sudden, canada is gonna produce bourbon and it's not something that can happen overnight. There's so many rules and regulations when it comes to alcohol and, like you said, even the restaurant industry that's reliant on American alcohol. You know what I mean. It's like there's certain things that they produce that's a lot better in terms of taste.
Speaker 3:So it's the crazy battle, it's just crazy and it affects every facet of life and I think, too kind of going back to our, uh, our topic, which we've kind, of strayed from, yeah, I think we're in the situation we're in and I truly believe this because of the internet.
Speaker 3:Um, that's not to say that there were not crazy people before the internet. Obviously there were and obviously yes, but I think think we kind of got to a sweet spot where, in the early 2000s, early 2000s, mid 2000s, something like that, I remember reading an article about how, at that particular point in time, the world was very safe and that wasn't to say that every country was safe, but just overall, on average, you had more peace than you had war, had more peace than you had war. Okay, yeah, and that's. We're seeing a really dangerous kind of shift, with people being very partisan and clinging to things that are not true because it makes them feel good and you can go into.
Speaker 3:You know, I mentioned online echo chambers and they're everywhere, like you can find them. You mentioned facebook groups. Yes%, facebook is probably the biggest originator of really toxic groupthink. It used to be that if you had a weird conspiracy theory or you were really fascinated by something strange or weird, use an example If you believed deep down in your heart that the agents used to clean drinking water were making people crazy, right, like believed it was causing brain damage.
Speaker 3:If you told your neighbor that you thought about this, like if you cornered somebody at work and started talking about this, people would be like, oh my god, no, like you would be kind of, unless you're really nuts, your behavior would be neutralized by people pushing back on you, being like, not wanting to talk to you, not wanting to engage with you. But then you know, there's the internet and it's been around for a while. But with social media you could join Facebook groups where suddenly you're meeting all these people who also believe that clean drinking water causes brain damage and you're feeding off each other and feeding off each other, and feeding off each other, and then these networks kind of grow.
Speaker 2:I think I've heard of this vaguely about why some people don't drink tap water. There is fluoride.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mm. Hmm, yeah, there is. There's concerns about fluoridation in water. But even like you know, this is a really touchy subject. But like vaccines right, like we've been doing, you know, like vaccines have been around for however many years we start seeing diseases disappear. We don't see people getting polio anymore, measles is pretty much eradicated, in Canada at least, and you know, other things start disappearing, diseases start disappearing, and then we kind of get into this comfy position where it's out of sight, out of mind. So suddenly someone comes to you and says, oh, you know, maybe these vaccines are what are causing us to get cancer in our 70s or something like that. And then you know, suddenly now you have these you know measles outbreaks that are happening. We've had a child in Ontario in the last year die of measles and we're undoing the problem.
Speaker 2:This is definitely a controversial topic. It is a controversial topic. It is a controversial topic. But the measles vaccine I do believe that I I wouldn't I would have to check, but I do believe there's certain vaccines we took when we were in school I do remember in grade seven and eight, like hepatitis b, and I'm fine. I'm actually quite grateful for that because I did a check and obviously the antibodies are protecting me from something.
Speaker 2:But it's one of those things where we are not I'm not a scientist, you're not a scientist but I remember in science class when they're doing research and they have a hypothesis and in order to come to the conclusion, like in this scenario, they do enough research and enough study on patients obviously not live people, but they do it on rats before they can test on on human beings whether or not the vaccine would work Right. And so there's usually a like a time in which they are testing a vaccine Right, whereas because of covid there was a rush for that vaccine. Yes, yeah, yeah. But getting back to measles and what you were saying, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So with, like with measles, we're seeing these huge outbreaks, these massive outbreaks, like there's been over 400 cases, I to say, in ontario this year. Uh, very unusual, highly unusual. If you have your shots, you're still protected, like it's. It's not like early covid where you could go to a mall and be like, oh my god, I'm gonna get sick. That's still unlikely to happen to you.
Speaker 3:But I became a lot more concerned about just communicable disease when I had my son, um, because just infants are so vulnerable, so susceptible, yeah, so susceptible, so fragile. So you start reading it. If you're like me and you're paranoid and terrified about death and dying and disease, which I am you learn about like just all these things that can, like all these misfortunes that can, that can befall your family. So you worry about meningitis and you worry about that. One was a big one, I was really worried about that one. But you worry about meningitis and you worry about that. One was a big one, I was really worried about that one.
Speaker 3:But you worry about, you know, invasive strep and and all this crazy stuff and you learn just when you take your child in, for you know their regulations, like what they are, what they're for what they prevent and it's really and I just kind of think, you know, oh, we sit on the shoulders of giants Like we. Someone else's hard work and research and intelligence has brought us to this point where we don't typically lose children under five anymore to infectious disease the way we did throughout history, and it's such a blessing. And it seems really terrifying and sad to watch that potentially slip away, because I can't imagine something more terrible than having your child die of anything, anything, anything, anything, but especially something that could conceivably potentially be prevented. And you can't prevent everything. No, you can't.
Speaker 2:And you know you can't prevent the flu even though you take the flu. Yeah, so I mean we can take the flu vaccine. Take the flu, yeah, so I mean we can take the flu vaccine. Mind you, I'm not a big advocate for taking the flu vaccine and I took the COVID vaccine because I felt like my hand was forced. But as you are a mom and you are very concerned about your son and you know taking, obviously there's certain vaccines that you know should be taken because it is a preventative in some ways, because you know, like, like we're having an outbreak and you're talking about that, and so I don't understand how we had an outbreak, unless the vaccine is not something that's like mandatory anymore, or if we've changed that whole idea, that's yes, that's interesting, so they're mandatory is kind of a tough.
Speaker 2:I know, I know it's kind of like if they're saying in the school system that they're going to be given this vaccine and the parent does not agree with it. Obviously they can't force the child to take that right. I mean.
Speaker 3:My understanding about the Ontario outbreak is it started with a Mennonite gathering, so this could be people schooled like homeschooled in their own community, so they're not necessarily required to be vaccinated to attend school. But a few doctors that I've spoken to and public health representatives that I've spoken to over the past couple of years few years about diseases and about measles I've done a few articles on measles is obviously during COVID. Vaccinations in general they lapsed because people were not going for routine medical care, because you know doctor's offices were closed or virtual appointments, only phone appointments, only that sort of thing. So people, you know some kids, so are we? Wow, yeah, so some kids just didn't, just didn't get vaccinated because you know that. And then, of course, you know it can kind of end up being a little out of sight, out of mind, right, like you miss these routine vaccinations but you're going about your life, you don't really think about it and there's not anyone reminding you and it's not like you know you get a letter in the mail saying like, oh, you know your child is due, or oh, you know we recommend this for you because it's been 10 years since your last tetanus shot, like there's nobody to remind you that this is recommended for you or that you know you're eligible for this. You know particular, you know shot or whatever. You have to have a family doctor who's kind of doing that work and a lot of people don't have one, so that's kind of part of the puzzle too. So people basically are there are a lot of people who are choosing not to vaccinate because, again, they've a lot of them are online getting scared by non-experts telling them crazy things that the measles vaccine is called MMR will give their child autism or will cause brain damage or will give them cancer. You know there's a lot of and these are not, these are quacks and people you know drumming up engagement who are saying these things.
Speaker 3:It's funny too, because I think traditionally anti-vaccination sentiment was kind of popular amongst your further left wing groups, like you're kind of crunchy granola, earthy kind of parents you know, like the home birth and raw milk, you know type of people. But now it's become very much kind of part and parcel of some in some more right wing circles. Has a lot to do with COVID, right and vaccine mandates, so they kind of pushed against that. So that's kind of become a bit more associated with like right, some right wing movements now, which is kind of interesting that that happened. But you know there's a lot of misinformation out there and so there are people who are just choosing not to vaccinate for that reason, and you know that's a shame because measles is quite dangerous and children can and do die of it.
Speaker 3:But you also have people who did kind of fall through the cracks during COVID and people who continue to fall through the cracks because they don't have a family doctor. So basically, like I had to enroll Archer in kindergarten because he starts in September and they, you know, required, and I even had to. I don't have like an electronic record, I just have like the yellow card. So I actually had to like put everything into, like a like input everything into like at the Toronto Public Health System. But I don't know what the consequences are if I said no, right, like I don't know. If I were like no, I couldn't, possibly I don't.
Speaker 2:Like are they going know if they actually? Yeah, because it's a lot has changed since then. But I mean like it. It seems like it's one of those things where I feel like the district school board you know, whichever board that is would probably use it the same way that they would with COVID Cause, like if you're sick, like they don't want you bringing your child to school to get other kids sick. You know what I mean, unless you're saying that they're fine, right, you know what I mean. It's a little bit different now but I think, like you said, I am on looking at the CDC website and it looks like things have changed because, like you said, things have fallen through the cracks, especially if you don't have a family doctor. But the first measles dose is usually given at 12 to 15 months, is that a year, a year?
Speaker 3:Yeah, archer, he got his MMR when he turned a year old. And that's another thing too is that you cannot get the measles vaccine too young. I think if you are going to be traveling with an infant to an area where measles is very endemic, like meaning very common, maybe like to a country that doesn't have like an organized vaccination program, I think you can get them vaccinated a little bit younger than that. Like you can get them one dose maybe, if they're maybe a little less than a year, but not not not brand new for sure. But generally speaking, like children are not vaccinated, like infants generally are not vaccinated for for measles in Canada until they're 12 months old. So that means that if a baby is exposed to measles it's it's pretty dangerous and there's really not much a parent can do about that because it's scary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really scary. Yeah, so it. You know, we we live in strange times where people kind of live in these little online enclaves, and it's scary because we're losing touch socially with each other too, at a time like we've never been. We've never talked to each other more, but it's not in person as much, and and I see people out and about all the time. So I sometimes wonder if you know, this talk about loneliness and isolation is maybe a little exaggerated. I don't know for sure, but because you know, you do go out and you see people out and about. You see people at restaurants, you see people in people. I haven't been to a movie theater in forever. I really miss it, but I haven't been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven call them the Gen Z to be able to socialize more in terms of making a phone call or receiving a phone call, where they don't really answer the phone when they receive a call, because we're a society that texts more. There's so many ways to text, you know, there's texting, there's voice messaging, you know, and it's so. It's become so easy that I don't know. I mean, I still have conversations with people, but not as much as you know. A text, like you said, with these online echo chambers, as you call them, it seems like it can cause mass hysteria in a way.
Speaker 3:Yeah and distrust and a lot of like the things that we're seeing now we would not have seen in the 90s. We just wouldn't have. The culture was different. Our ways of communicating were different. We just didn't. We had the internet in its infancy, like it was. It was around but it was not all-encompassing. We didn't have computers in our pockets like we didn't. We weren't, we didn't constantly have a little computer in our hand like we do now.
Speaker 3:And you're the computer in your hand, like you know, tells you all these things that you want to see it and connects you with people who say the same things, who kind of feed you know anxieties and who might bolster your bad opinions. Unfortunately, yeah, and it contributes to anxiety and it shortens our attention span. Like I have, my attention span is like shit. Like it, my attention span is terrible and I know it's because of my phone. Like I can't, I need to. I've been saying this to like people and I'm saying to my husband for a long time. Like I and he says it to me too like I need to do one of those like detoxes, like where you go to like a cabin, you can't have any like technology and you're forced to like read a book. You need to do that diva tonight. Glamour for your ears.
Speaker 3:This is 40, a female perspective like I have a lot of friends who are teachers, who teach at various levels too. Like I have friends who teach elementary school kids. I have friends who teach high school kids. I have a good friend who teaches the college level, and one thing they're all noticing is just it's different little kids, but just like a lack of engagement and a fear of trying anything new.
Speaker 2:When you say a lack of engagement, what do you mean?
Speaker 3:They don't engage with each other, like they're always on there. They're engaging, they're actually that's. I guess that's not fair for me to say they're engaging but like, not with each other. You know, like they they're on their phones all the time, they're on TikTok all the time. They'll chat with each other on FaceTime. But my friend said that when she'll ask them you know she's a high school teacher and she says, when she asks her kids, like you know, what did you do this weekend? Or what did you do over Christmas break or March break or whatever, they'll say that they, you know, facetimed or played video games. And she said it's rare that they tell her that they went out with people in person. And it's scary and it really is.
Speaker 3:And this is a weird thing I've noticed because, again, like I'm a terminally online person. I'm online all the time, so like for work and just also, again, like in my purse, like in my spare time. I spend too much time online about this. And there's like literature about this because it's I don't think it's affecting everybody, but it's affecting a big enough cohort of people that there's definitely been some intrigue and some study about it. But there's this kind of rejection amongst some people, probably of all ages, but maybe centered a little bit more in younger groups right now of romance, of connection, and that's definitely just like a fear of being vulnerable and getting to know someone or getting too comfortable alone and being isolated.
Speaker 3:I know we've talked a lot about like TIFF and movies in the past, and have you seen Anora? Anora, no, ok, so like one best picture at the Oscars. Who's in that? No one's super famous, actually. Ok, the lead actress who won the best actress name's mikey madison, I think I hope I'm pronouncing it right. I hope she doesn't go by mickey, but I think it's okay, okay, and and then the rest of the cast is like some like russian actors.
Speaker 3:It's a really interesting movie, okay, yeah, so I recommend it. It's too long, as every movie is, but it was, it was good. Cut it in half. There was some stuff I think you could cut, but yeah, yeah, like the the cole's notes with this movie is um, which is very good and I strongly recommend it.
Speaker 3:It's this, uh, this woman, uh, she's a stripper and she, you know, is working at like the club, young, beautiful girl, and she meets this like also very young russian guy who is, you know, very fun, really wild, very, very rich. And you know, basically he comes from money, his father's like this, like oligarch, and they have this whirlwind kind of romance. At first it starts off where he just like invites her over and like they have sex, he pays her um, but then, you know, it gets really like wild. They end up getting married and then when his family finds out that he's, you know, married this woman, they're like, oh my god, this marriage must be annulled, like this can't continue, like we can't have, like he can't marry this woman. So it becomes this like really wild kind of balls to the wall movie.
Speaker 3:It's not disturbing, it's not scary or violent. It's very funny. But it's also very sad and I couldn't help but notice the discourse Everyone calls it that when they talk online about, on Reddit or Twitter. Reddit is also a big place where you can find, you know, online echo chambers.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I go on there all the time.
Speaker 3:You just read things where, if you don't know how to do something or you're unsure, there is a Reddit group for that right, there is, there is, and actually if we had more time or we could talk about a different day, I could talk about parenting groups and toxicity that I see in Reddit. Parenting groups, again, encouraging isolation oh my goodness, it's crazy, crazy, crazy. Encouraging a lot of isolation, like encouraging people to reject help from family and friends, encouraging people to reject their own husbands I don't think they think they're it, doesn't? They're not like they're in a cult and they're trying to convince people to do things. I think they just think that's kind of the right way to live your life and it's really scary and unfortunate.
Speaker 3:But again, with like Reddit and Twitter, with this movie Nora, people were taking a lot of issue with like the nudity and the sex and some of the more off color jokes that really if in the average millennial, I guess who's like not particularly woke like myself, wouldn't notice or take issue with this stuff. Like in the context of the film, it's perfectly normal to see it. It's not exploitative nudity, it's not. It's not like a graphic kind of 80s sort of movie, it's just, you know, like it's an honest kind of depiction of this kind of whirlwind, sexy relationship and so many people were really uncomfortable with it and I found that fine. I mean, people have. There's always been people who've been uncomfortable with sex in film. That's not uncommon or abnormal. But also last year, you might recall, I think the best picture winner was poor things, which was a movie with emma stones I am so out of the movie world.
Speaker 2:I really am. I'm telling you now. It's like I talk about like movies with my sister and we're trying to remember the florida project, which is something we watched in cinema years ago. But, like getting back to what you said about anora, that's also. That's not the director of the florida project. Are you serious? Oh, that's so crazy. Okay, so I don't know if you've seen the florida project. This is heading off. I we found the ending to be abrupt and it left you like like shocked. I was like okay, like how am I supposed to? Left you like like shocked. I was like okay, like how am I supposed to react to this? Like it kind of made you feel like you. It left you without an answer. Like usually, movies either have a happy ending, a sad end, something to think about, but I think it just ended. The Florida project yeah, my sister and I still talk about it and I think I have to re-watch it.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I have to re-watch it too. I watched it years ago. I remember enjoying it, but I don't remember. I only saw it once. It was a few years ago, so I'd have to like see it again to remember the ending.
Speaker 2:But okay, but going back to what you said about Anora, it made me think of Pretty Woman with Julia Roberts and Richard Richard Gere. So I don't know the ending of Anora and I'm sure you're not going to spoil it for me because you want me to watch this film. But it makes me think of that because it kind of shed light on the fact that you know, julia is a stripper as well and you know the the whole idea that someone like with of her caliber wouldn't be they wouldn't they treated her differently. You know, like she was not a part of pop culture or mainstream because of she's a working girl, right, and in society a working girl doesn't get the same treatment. But here we are, she meets this, this handsome man, and like she gets the happy ending.
Speaker 3:So yeah, like the best way I can describe a nora is like pretty woman, but crazy, yeah, crazy.
Speaker 2:they're both like enjoyable films in very different ways, in very, very different ways but getting back to our original topic with echo chambers, you're saying that the online world is.
Speaker 3:I'm basically seeing some Puritanism creep into. This has been the case for a long time, but I've really noticed Puritanism and conservatism really creep into liberal circles. I've said this before to other people, kind of informally, that liberals are the new conservatives, and they are, and like I was mentioning poor things, so if you ever see poor things, it's also a very sexually charged film, but absurd, completely absurd, very memorable, very silly. Emma Stone's performance, though, is like it's, it's incredible.
Speaker 2:Like I love Emma Stone. Oh, my goodness, she's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's amazing, and she pulls off this wild role. But the movie has a lot of sex in it, lots of nudity as well, and people were like, I didn't like. Those two films were returning to a time of a male gaze, of an exploitive look of you know of of women as objects. In my opinion, those two women as objects.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, I think you know like we're taking film too far, we're taking comedy too far, like certain things that I think in in our when we were growing up it wasn't so serious, we didn't take everything for face value. Like, could you imagine if, like Seinfeld was on now, so many people would be offended by so many things? You know, like oh yeah. Or mad tv, oh my goodness, like I. I go back and I watch old, old comedy reels, like when Eddie Murphy made fun of Mr Rogers' neighborhood and I laugh. It's funny.
Speaker 3:I didn't even know that it was a thing, but hearing you talk about how people take offense to a movie, yeah, and it feels like everything needs to have a moral message which is very biblical and very churchy, where everyone you know needs some sort of moral anchor to what they're watching or reading. And I feel like for a long time, you know, liberal thought kind of moved away from that, like you didn't need to have a message to enjoy something and you didn't need to frame things in a certain way, and it didn't mean that like there was no movies or films or TV shows where women were treated as objects. Obviously there are, but I found the people accusing these two particular films of doing that. I found that very short sighted. And it's not I don't know if it's necessarily like, oh, it's just a matter of opinion I think it's that people are thinking in very binary ways, being like oh, there's when you say binary ways, what do you mean um black and white?
Speaker 2:okay?
Speaker 3:okay, um, I don't mean in like terms of like I know binaries used a lot in terms of like gender oppression and I don't mean it yeah, yeah, and I don't mean it that way.
Speaker 3:I mean like black and white, right. So this film was, and it's not even like they see, like oh, there's nudity, this is like an exploitative, you know, anti-feminist film. They're like this is a I see, like I see nudity. This is an exploitative, you know, anti-feminist film. They're like this is a I see. Like I see nudity, but this director is male. Therefore, you know, this is a bad film because they'll defend the substance, which don't know if you saw that but there's a ton, ton, ton ton of nudity in that movie.
Speaker 3:But it's kind of excused by these same groups because they're like oh, you know, it's told from a woman's perspective, it's shot by a woman, it's about, you know, aging. But that's just because someone checked different boxes in their mind of what is and is not, you know, dumb and I find it really close minded and I find it concerning and I just think that there's a lot of puritanism kind of creeping into, you know, discourse and discussion about art, discourse and discussion about art and makes me kind of worry that if you know art, suddenly you you don't. You've always seen certain types of people reject certain types of like art and movies, you know, usually on moral grounds, and this was kind of something you'd be like. You know, some people are churchier, I guess, or, you know, a little bit more prudish in some ways, but now you're seeing people who claim to be very left-wing, who claim to be, you know, very open-minded, very progressive that's their word, progressive being very regressive about arts and culture, and I think it has just a lot to do.
Speaker 3:Again, being online, you know everything's exploitation, everything is oppression, everything is violence, oh okay, and we have no ability to see things that make us uncomfortable or that make us think, and I find it bizarre that we're in this time where we need messages spelled out for us like we're kids. I was watching this movie a few years ago, very good movie, very good movie called the perfection on Netflix, and I don't want to spoil this, but have you seen it?
Speaker 2:no, I haven't okay, I feel like there's certain things I haven't been watching on Netflix, like, or I have watched some films, but clearly not the TIFF contenders in that way. But yeah, you were talking about the movie.
Speaker 3:Yeah the perfection, um, perfection, yes, yeah. So you find out midway through the film and the film is crazy. It's a wild ride from beginning to end. It's great.
Speaker 3:But they have this weird kind of scene of exposition in the middle where they start explaining about how this one character was like sexually assaulting these like other characters. And you know that this is what happened, because, like, it becomes very clear and apparent at this point that this is what happened. So you're like, okay, I get it. But then they take all this time to kind of be like he did this and this is wrong. And this is what happens when someone grooms you. And grooming happens when and I was like why, why, why are you making this into like a health class? Like I don't need you to explain this to me, I know exactly what happened. And it's like they had to like suddenly take this moment to like explain that like this was an assault and assault is bad. And it's like I don't, I didn't need it, I don't need. It's a saying that people use for politics, but it's when you're explaining, you're losing, um because I guess they're.
Speaker 2:It seems to me like when you explain something it becomes a documentary, not necessarily a film. Yeah, like it just became.
Speaker 3:It became suddenly kind of bumpy and you felt like your intelligence was being insulted because you're, like I understand. Like I'm I've been watching this movie from beginning to end. Like I understand what happened here I don't need you to spell it out for me. Like looking at the camera breaking the fourth wall, being like oh guys, did you know that rape is bad? Like yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like they're trying to cover certain things, because people are not understanding certain things anymore, like people don't understand.
Speaker 3:Oh okay, I think I don't know yeah. Yeah, like maybe they're talking to weird focus groups or something, but like I don't know, there's there's just been little shifts in in behavior and not, you know, and it would seem good I remember to reading this again, it not, you know, and it would seem good I remember to reading this again.
Speaker 2:It was a twitter thread, so it's like this my husband's always like, don't like listen to people on like twitter. They're just weird. So I want to say this because we were talking about it, and since we're talking about the online community, I was watching a ted talk, as I said to you earlier, and, um, the ted speaker you should watch, it's, uh, jim ross and he's from Georgia University and he says, I believe that one tweet can change the world, and so it seems like now we're having courses online and everything's online and we're not meeting people in real life. I just go back to this boot camp at Sheridan and, because of COVID, I never met any of my classmates. Everything was online, right, and so that's where things are going now, right, yeah, and it's scary.
Speaker 3:It's scary. It's scary. It's not a good thing, and I say this like I, my I make a living on the internet. Like our, our website, like our new site, is completely online A hundred percent. I work from home. I have since 2016. Wow, which is a long time. It's a long time. It's a long time.
Speaker 3:It's convenient for me in a lot of ways, but and I've, I've, I'm very blessed and fortunate that I've been able to maintain like a pretty good social life Like I've. I keep in touch with like so many friends from different parts of my life. I've made new friends since I moved to like this neighborhood a few years ago. Like I try to see people as often as possible. One friend of mine, like we've been like you know, like I have friends here now that I can like hang out with like fairly regularly, some with kids, some without Went back to like a yoga class last week, a hot yoga class for the first time in a long time, speaking of mindfulness and wellness, first time in a long time speaking of mindfulness and wellness, beneficial to my very tight muscles.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so I feel lucky that I've been still been seeing people like just hanging out, going for a walk, going for dinner like I love going out for dinner, it's my favorite. I just like I love drinking. I'm drinking. I don't get to do that as often anymore just because, you know life, I'm an alcoholic, I'm not, I just love it. I get to do it. That's so funny.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I feel, like you know, like fortunate that I've still been able to kind of get out there and see people face to face and hang out. But I think you know, sometimes you know you're in your pajamas, you're sitting on the couch and you're like you know, like I'm okay, kind of staying home. But when you force yourself to actually go out and do things and interact with people in person, you feel better. You like we're meant to kind of be with people and I think, because we sit online, so much of us, we get angry, we start thinking about how people want to, we start ascribing motives to people. Like you know, everyone is, you know, oppressive. Everyone is innately selfish, everyone is terrible, and it's why you have, you know, political movements that you have. It's why you have like MAGA. It's why you have you know Donald Trump is the president is because you know you had people become very angry, very vengeful.
Speaker 3:At the same time, too, we saw kind of you know the bottom fallout of liberal and progressive movements. They became honestly very toxic for voters. That's part of this too. People didn't want to support parties that you know that they also thought were vengeful in their own way. So you know, your average person, I think, has been kind of like pushed out in a lot of ways. At least you know in terms of you know because I think, with you know, in terms of you know because, like I think with you know politics and elections and stuff, when people are doing research for you know their candidate, for their party, they're doing a lot of that research online and thinking you know this is what the voters want.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. You say that we're doing research online. I think there's a lot of it, because both of us I, you know we're part of the, the era where we didn't have a computer to look up something. So if there was a rumor happening at school and I got around, that you know hey, you, ashley, here, apparently she slept with this guy, paul, and you know the rumors going around and then you either believe it or not. You know what I mean. You ask your, you know you whether or not this is true. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's that was kind of like Facebook or like how rumors started, right, you know what I mean. And, and there's no way to fact check back, no, no, right, but, but yeah, but going back to doing research online, I just remember how many times I had to go back to the library if I was doing any research because the books were the thing. And now students can write an essay using chat, gbt, and I'm just like that is unbelievable, as someone who had to cite every reference to avoid plagiarism. Here we are where we have a smartphone and a smart TV and it's very, yes, it's unreal, it's very bad.
Speaker 3:The academic dishonesty is very bad and friends that I have in academia basically say it's so out of control and that so many people are using ChatGPT to write essays that it's become impossible to enforce. There's you can't enforce it they can't suspend everybody.
Speaker 2:Well, it's, it's, it's. This stuff is not being spoken about. This is crazy. The only reason I even knew is because a co-worker of mine was telling me how to use chat GPT. You know how he uses it to do his homework and stuff and I'm just like, if you didn't have it, would you be able to do your homework? You know, are you learning how to do, how to actually do programming?
Speaker 3:you know it's kind of sad yeah, no, and it takes away our resourcefulness. Right, like every we are never we're very isolated. We're very isolated. We're very, some of us not everybody, of course Like I don't know in generality but like a lot of people are very isolated, a lot of people are very angry, a lot of people are very distrustful. Hence, you see, really polarizing political movements and a lot of people are not resourceful anymore.
Speaker 3:And I say I'm not resourceful anymore, either, right, like I've been using GPS on my phone more, either, right, like I've been using GPS on my phone, I, if you were to give me a map and tell me to go somewhere, I'd be like what, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Like, you know, if we've lost our resourcefulness but myself included and we've lost our resilience in a lot of ways too, because there's always some, you know, same thing, these online movements, which can be very abrasive and kind of militant at the same time, you know, don't really encourage any self-improvement. They encourage, you know, isolation and abandonment of people who, you know, kind of defy the cause, but at the same time, you can also go online to find a lot of people who will justify your behavior and actions, like if you say you know I'm, I haven't left my house in six months. I'm, you know, I'm a shell. I'm, you know, that's fine. Who needs to go outside? So it's, it's kind of you can really pick your poison. I mean, you can find people who kind of you know, justify, you know, every shitty thing you do.
Speaker 2:That's crazy because I guess it's true. In a way, you can find a group of people that match your ideals and your way of thinking and I guess you have to look for it. But I go on TikTok and I've had to remove the app on my phone many times because it's very addictive. The algorithm is quite crazy. Like it knows exactly what I like. I love music, I love listening to music and video after video, I mean I think I've learned about new artists that I would like you know, like New Medicine.
Speaker 2:But, like you said, there's an online world and it's kind of crazy, and so I'll describe it to you. So, basically, you can go on TikTok and there are people who have a TikTok following and we can't talk to these people. Like, I follow this one guy. His name is Dawson, he's in BC and you know I don't go on it a lot, but once you have a certain following, ashley, on TikTok you have people and they're talking to you, obviously texting you, but he's talking to us. You know what I mean Responding to people's questions and that kind of thing, and that's how you have isolation, because I mean I don't really need to socialize with people. I was on the outside because there's so many platforms to do it online. Like it's crazy, like I mean it's sad that there's a room of people who go online and watch someone because we find them attractive or whatever it is. But I was just like, oh wow, and they're live. You know what I mean. Like live chat room yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's a really bizarre thing that we and we've always had this to an extent, I guess like people we did, we did, yeah, yeah, like that, oh, yeah for sure, but it's just, we can live a whole life like in a room on a phone and it reminds me of this, like, oh, my god, it still disturbs me and I still get like I can't even listen to the song when it comes on the radio because it gives me like this, like oh my gosh, what on earth is that?
Speaker 3:just gives me like this, like icky feeling, but I can't remember. But do you okay? So pearl jam, you know the band like, yes, pearl jam, yes I remember pearl jam yeah everyone knows pearl jam.
Speaker 3:But they came out. They have a song, probably from the early 90s, oh, maybe even mid 90s. Basically, the song's old. It's called like evolution or do the evolution or something like that. And okay, it has. It has a. The song's like a banger song.
Speaker 3:It's a good song, but the song it has a grotesque music video. It's animated and it's just like super, like violent and like aggressive and very like. It's a very confronting video and it's meant to be like it's. It's. It gives you like a visceral reaction to it, which I guess it does what it's supposed to, but it gives me like this, just like awful feeling, like I find it unwatchable. But there's a scene in this music video which is like this really dark kind of dirty animation. And there's a scene in the music video where this man's like typing at a computer and then like suddenly, like computer, shoots out these wires and these wires like go into his eyes and like attached to his hands and like go into his mouth. So like he's just like sitting there at a zombie, like physically attached to the computer and he's just like typing, typing, typing, like constantly, throughout, like, and I feel like the world we live in now like is that? It's that we're heading that way?
Speaker 3:we're that guy like it's like he's been, you know, like literally, like his body's been taken by this computer, um, like it's like plugged into all his orifices and he's literally attached to it and it's, you know, horrifying. But that's kind of like where we're at in a lot of ways and I think we've seen a lot of degradation in our political systems and our, in our friendships and our society. You know because, as I've said, I say this jokingly to my brother often, but we talk about this a lot that you know, as I said to you, I make my living off the internet and I benefit from it in a lot of ways and I use it constantly, but I think we need to destroy it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's. I had this discussion with a colleague of mine because there's some people, like you said, we're going around like bots, like you watch people walking and now, like there's so many, there's really bad drivers now and, like I, I constantly pay more attention now than ever before because I watch people and I'm like are you watching where you're going?
Speaker 3:no, the facts bear that out. Since COVID especially, there has been an uptick in car accidents and fatal collisions. That, that is data supported. Yeah, our driving has gotten worse since COVID. I don't know if that's kind of going back to baseline, but uh, yeah, that, yes, yes and you know we're talking about the negative side of this online community.
Speaker 2:But like, how, how could we possibly change this?
Speaker 3:I don't um, I think, you know, I think the cat's out of the bag or you know it's done. There's still positives to it, of course, right like we're doing this right now like, yeah, I wouldn't have this podcast otherwise, but yeah, like we're doing this right now. I mean, ideally we should just be at a studio doing this yes, of course, because we're actually both living at the same place.
Speaker 2:But you know what? Maybe we will do that. Right, we should do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, definitely do that you know, it makes it easier to do.
Speaker 2:It makes it easy, it facilitates like I wouldn't be able to talk to half the people I I've spoken to because of it. You know, I've, yeah, people in Las Vegas. I remember one couple they were in was it New Zealand or something, but they I don't remember exactly how far away they were, but it was like 12 hours apart, like was it was evening time for me and they were just waking up. It was just crazy. But, like you said, it's food for thought. I am going to walk away and think about this in a different way, because we have to be mindful more, like we do.
Speaker 3:We do we do Like there's there's, so there are benefits Online banking Amazing. There are benefits Online banking amazing. It's the best.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is there's pros and cons to everything, but, like the saying is, it's so cliche, everything in moderation, as people say, like turn off the internet at six o'clock, you know. But I like what I've learned about these echo chambers, as you say, because I guess, at the end of at the end of the day, you really can find people to back up whatever you believe, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 3:Because, yeah, you can and, like I said, it used to be, if you were, if you believe something really crazy, really nutty, and you started telling people this, there was a natural consequence of that, which was rejection. And it's not like you don't get rejected now, but you can find acceptance online. You can find, you can find a subreddit, you can find a Facebook group, you can find people on Twitter who will back you up and who will affirm what you say and believe. And it can go dark places when you have no kind of checks and balances on your most. You know, when you're having your dark night of the soul and people are encouraging that it's dangerous, what can happen, and again it's.
Speaker 3:I think we came, we had kind of an enlightenment where we were really living our best lives to use like a new cliche where you know life was not perfect or but it was, you know, very peaceful for the most part, very prosperous for the most part. We had seen unprecedented breakthroughs in health and technology. You know like we were living in. You know homes that were safe with carbon monoxide detectors and fire detector, which we still have, but we just you know homes that were safe with carbon monoxide detectors and fire detector, which we still have. But we just, you know, we were living very safe and prosperous lives and we still are, for the most part, here.
Speaker 3:But that is fragile and I think that that's what we're seeing now and I think it's a consequence of being terminally online for so many years, also kind of little post-covid crazy. But I think that maybe we got bored with our prosperity and affluence, maybe because we didn't have, you know, that kind of like hand-to-mouth struggle. We weren't worried about warlords, we weren't worried about starvation, we weren't worried about, you know, famine and other, you know, very significant existential crisis. We started to invent them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it's kind of crazy now, like if you wanted to buy a house now, like even the simple things it's very, it's hard, I don't know. Like I mean, I talked to someone who said they spent like the older, the baby boomers, as you call them. He was like oh, I bought my first house at 69,000. I'm like that is-.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those days are over and housing is no. Like that is yeah, those days are over and housing is no. That's a real problem like that. That is a real problem because you can expect houses in Toronto, for example, to be a certain price, like, if you, you know, like a shitty house in Toronto being a million dollars is something that you can say, I get it to an extent, it's. You know, it's the biggest city in Canada, it's the financial and cultural hub of the country, but people should not, absolutely should not, be paying a million dollars for a townhouse in Barrie Bowmanville.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, yeah, the further out you get from the city, the more affordable your property should be. And it doesn't mean that these towns or cities are like not desirable, they are, they just shouldn't. The further they are from, you know, the financial hub, the transit hub, like, the more affordable they should be. That's kind of the social contract. So it's really unfair and terrible to kind of push people as far away from the city as possible and still, you know, expect them to pay two thousand dollars a month for an apartment.
Speaker 2:It's unreal in the end of the stage. But I will say this that life as we know it is a little bit different now than it was before and it puts things in perspective. And I think, like you said, you know, when you feel like you're a little isolated, it's time to go outside. Like you said, I think we've a lot of us have gotten comfortable staying inside, even myself and I live on my own and so sometimes, like I like because you're, when I'm always around people like I don't work from home, so because I'm always out, I like my quiet time.
Speaker 2:But for you, when you work from home, like you want to go out and do things and it's important to do both and I think we've been blessed that we were part, like, of a generation that got to experience both, and I think I'm happy that I was able to dial, make a phone call, you know, use the phone book to look up somebody's phone number. You know what I mean the little things and spend hours in the library where people think like, oh my gosh, you're going to go crazy. I'm like, how am I going to go crazy from reading too much? I don't know how, but Now we need to go back to reading and it doesn't have to be anything super intellectual.
Speaker 3:I mean, people want to read. You know, very challenging stuff, by all means, of course, but like I'm really trying to just get back to reading like top 40 novels, right, like heather's picks.
Speaker 2:Like I just need to like, oh my god, emily giffen, the reason for heather's picks. That was like the first book, I think, from heather's pick that I read. But yeah, like I am trying to get back to reading and, like you said, it's hard to read now I I the attention span, you know, yeah, my attention span is shit, it's just shit.
Speaker 3:I've like read, like I've read like two novels in like four years and it's terrible because I used to like go through spurts right where I would suddenly be like reading very like all the time I'm reading a lot I would. I would go through, like you know, like novel after novel after novel, you know having fun, you know nice little escape from real life, but doing something you know a little bit more stimulating in a good way, not just like watching screens and you know doom scrolling, um. So I need to get back to that.
Speaker 2:Um, I think yes I have a book for you to read. I'm gonna say this, I'm car to say this I'm Carlene and this is Diva Tonight with Ashley Newport. Thank you, ashley, for sharing the craziness of society, you know thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me on, for sure.
Speaker 2:Always fun, always fun, indeed, indeed.
Speaker 1:Diva Tonight with Carlene will be back. Send us a message on Instagram at diva underscore tonight.
