Industrial Marketer

Taking a Holistic Approach to Search Engines

May 25, 2021 Joey Strawn & Nels Jensen Episode 12
Industrial Marketer
Taking a Holistic Approach to Search Engines
Show Notes Transcript

Much like the larger world around us, the manufacturing and industrial information ecosystems have become very fragmented. People consume information in all sorts of ways through all sorts of channels. In this episode, the Industrial Marketer Podcast looks at combating fragmentation by taking a holistic approach to search engine marketing. Plan your paid search investments to align with and coincide with your organic search efforts. 

Make sure your paid search is properly targeted to marry up with your content marketing to reinforce how your solutions help your prospects and customers. Consider the many ways you can target paid search:

  • Geography
  • Timing, including these parameters:
    • Buying cycling; when you need to get prospects into your lead gen funnel
    • Seasonal
    • Trade publication editorial calendars
    • Events and trade shows
  • Customer segments
  • Product launches 
  • Personas

Targeting your paid search increases the odds that you will bring people to your good work and what you have been building toward.


Joey Strawn:

Welcome, welcome listening audience to another industrial marketer Podcast. I am so happy that you have joined us. This is your place for the tips, tech trends and tactics for industrials, who care about driving leads to their companies. I am one of your hosts. My name is Joey Strawn. And as always, I am joined by my brother in arms, Nels Nels, my tender heart melts, Jensen. Now, how are you today?

Nels Jensen:

I'm doing splendidly, Joey, that my son is the sun is shining in the industrial market or podcast world.

Joey Strawn:

It definitely is. And the sun is shining outside. Today we're getting into the warmer seasons. And so it's fun. I am so happy to hear that you're splendid. Because once again, I have forcibly dragged you away from your desk, when you're doing very important, helpful work for other people to make you talk with me about industrial marketing, and giving our listeners helping them learn from your expertise and our experiences together on on this wacky trail? Are you ready to dive in and talk about kind of the strategy and some of the interconnected tissue that is in industrial inbound marketing?

Nels Jensen:

I am, you know, and on my other job, I'm currently working on some supply chain issues. And that is so complex and convoluted. And the degree of difficulty is ultra high. So I'm looking forward to something that even if it's a high degree of difficulty, it's a little more attainable. So you know, how can I unders help me understand how we get there, because it's a little mystery to me. But I also don't know this turf. So I'm eager to hear how we how we go from sort of, you know, we're in the game to the nuanced, you know, tactical approach.

Joey Strawn:

I, I'm glad that you mentioned tactics, because we're gonna start there. But essentially, the idea of this episode came from questions that we get a lot, and especially from people that are in the supply chain, you mentioned supply chain, we're going to talk about that. But in the industrial market, specifically, you know, people that are dealing with sales and marketing practices, people that are the actual doers on the floor, they hear this term inbound marketing a lot, whether it comes up in their like HubSpot reading, or they hear it on a podcast like ours, or it just as pot is just a term that's linked around, we all kind of have an idea of inbound marketing, but in in theory, and to lay it out easily. It's the interconnected aspects that you do of marketing to draw people into your funnel. And one of the things that's really key to an inbound marketing approach is all of the different channels and tactics working together. And the specific tactics and the specific channels that we're here to talk about today now, are media and organic, when it comes to a holistic approach to search marketing. This is one of those topics that is, has been divided for a long time, you'll hear a lot of people talk on both sides of the fence about it. But the idea of well, media doesn't affect what you do on the organic side. And organic doesn't affect what you do on the media side, the only thing that really matters is keywords. And that's how we have to look at it. We're seeing more and more, especially in markets, and let's stick with supply chain nails. In markets, like the supply chain, that thinking of these activities in a silo just isn't cutting it anymore. It's the difference between being a tactical executioner of, say paid search ads, versus being a marketer, for your company and your company's businesses, business objectives. I mean, there's there's a wide Gulf there. And in the past, it was like, Oh, well, we bid on keywords. And those keywords don't affect the organic attributes of our site at all. And that's where we're gonna land. And and it's really a bit more nuanced than that. I mean, and even now, I know that you and I have been talking about inbound methodology and a lot of that theory lately, quite a bit on and off the air. But when you're approaching, you know, understanding how those two methods work together, because you get asked to do stuff for paid ads, and you get asked to do stuff for organic site content, you know, what is it that you're looking for when you're approaching those, and we're making them work together, as opposed to just doing one effort, a one effort be hope for something else? Sure.

Nels Jensen:

Well, I think the world is so fragmented in terms of how people consume information, that you can't sit there and think, Okay, this is part of a newscast where it's pure content, and this is that commercial and that runs in between segments, you know, that simple world is long gone. So for instance, when you're on social media, you know, you're looking at paid and organic content in the same place at the same time. Right. So that delineations are gone. So, yeah. And that's we'll talk a little bit about that in terms of how much does the messaging need to vary? Because I think, you know, the answer is always It depends, right?

Joey Strawn:

Right, right.

Nels Jensen:

You know, there, there are reasons why you want things to be different, and there are reasons why they don't have to be. And I think the key thing for a lot of us is the difficulty and understanding when you apply one versus when you apply the other.

Joey Strawn:

I couldn't agree more. And honestly, I know a lot of people that are listening are like, well, Joey, you're coming at this from a very organic based perspective. And, you know, that's what I do day in and day out. So I understand that. So in our segment to for our on the shop floor, now, I am bringing a media expert. So we can talk about how these two things and these two tactics need to work together. And a lot of what I imagined we're going to talk about is going to boil down to some version of keywords and intent. And this is where probably the easiest connection point between the two tactics of media for search and organic for search really start to intertwine because if you know the intent of your audience, so then you can know how you need to show up for them. For instance, if you know that they're going to be searching for maintenance requests for a certain piece of machinery, then one, you can do the research set to find out how much how often maintenance requests for that certain piece of machinery, our search online, and also how many other people are ranking for it, you know, the we can use certain we've mentioned tools in the last episode like SEM Rushj, or SpyFu, or Google Keyword Planner, they can show you a variety of that information. The other elements are okay, well, now that we know that this collection of keywords, or this collection of questions or intent based phrases are important for us having visibility for audiences seeking these services, then now, we need to differentiate between we have no chance of ranking for these terms anytime soon. I mean, we'd be competing with Amazon, or Wikipedia, or Walmart or whatever. So maybe that's where we use some of our media focus to get first page bid opportunities, while we build the content necessary to show up more places organically. That is one aspect to it. Another aspect would be using content and using ads and bidding mechanisms to get people onto your site to then increase the time on site. And the number of pages and pages visited by relevant audiences to then have organic metrics show a spike based off those metrics. So it's almost a ground up versus pulled down method. Keeping people on the site, that's your domain like, right? Yes, I tend to make people stay on a site is what you do. So

Nels Jensen:

in some cases, the challenge is just to get them to the site to explain those nuances. Oh, I'll give you one example. We had used to have a client who was basically involved in press and automation controls, right? How do you make machines behave and do certain things in sequence and things like that? And the the easy, the top keyword phrase, among that is going to be PLCs, right? Programmable Logic computers, you know, that kind of turf? But it's like, well, that's not what we do. But you know what, that's how people will find you. And it was a struggle to convince them that yes, once they're on the site, you are educating them about how you are bigger and grander and better. But you have to use that language to get there. Nobody comes to the site, you know, the way that you guys message. So you had to bring in the you know, if you think about it, I talk about this all the time, those concentric circles, right? What is the message you want to convey? versus what are the words that people are searching for, for their solutions? So in this case, getting people to the site, then you have a chance to educate? Right?

Joey Strawn:

Well, and that gives you the opportunity to then be creative about how you're using those terms, or how you're using that infrastructure. Because I mean, Nels to your point, PLC might be the term that everyone's starting their search with, but you need to educate them that on a term that you use or that you've certified or trademarked or whatever. So that's where you write a page that's like PLC versus my right Mark thing. So you're still getting the people who are searching that thing that don't know it's your solution that's necessary for exactly the right example of being able to use those intent based terms. And we can even then bid on those terms. We can have organic content, show up On purpose around some of those terms and some of those questions that people may be asking,

Nels Jensen:

Right? It could be the Q&A can be misconceptions. It can be five things you need to know about, it could be the side by side comparison. But in you know, you engage all of those terms together, and then you increase your chances organically of people arriving at your site, when you want them at your site.

Joey Strawn:

I, I'm glad that you said the word misconceptions. Because I, there was one of the things that I was writing down, I was jotting Notes for this episode nails, when you know the idea of media and organic working together for search, there are a lot of misconceptions just in the market in general. So there were a handful that I wanted to just dispel here for our listeners right away. First off, and I've sort of mentioned this one already, but the organic and paid have no connection or relation together whatsoever in search. I mentioned before that, yes, in theory is not like if we bid on this term, that we're going to rank better for it on our site. But there are ways if you know, the systems and you know, what you're trying to rank for on the site, to have the two systems and the two tactics work together, very harmoniously. And our guests in the next segment is going to talk about that. Next is that paid social media and paid marketing is very, very expensive. That is something we hear a lot. And I'm just gonna say one, no, it's not. And we're going to talk about more in the next segment. Why it's not because if you're focused in the right ways, and you're doing the right research and asking the right questions, you can use your money very, very efficiently. And then three, is you have to pay to be on the top spot of Google. And that's not necessarily true. A couple things, one, you might compay, you might be on the top spot of Google organically, there might be a local search that you just dominate or a very specific question search that you don't have to pay a dime for. There are other ways that you could pay to be on the top of Google. But a lot of times being on the bottom of Google of a Google search is even better, because we in our minds, have almost figured out a way to tune out the ads at the top of a Google search. So the ads at the bottom in some instances, and based on some keyword performances will do better than the ones at the top. So guys, always keep in mind, make sure that your ads are performing and test where they're showing up. Because you may need to be a be testing placement, as opposed to just descriptions and titles. So but now those are those are my Those are my misconceptions that I wanted to I wanted to clear up. Is there anything any other final things that you want to bring up or that you want to ask before we head on down to the shop floor and meet the special guest I've hidden for you today?

Nels Jensen:

Yeah, and you know, and I come at this, as everyone knows the content guy. So I really don't pay a lot of attention to some of these inbound strategies, or at least I haven't until very recently. So I got a couple of these, you know, questions for you.

Joey Strawn:

Wait, wait, wait, are you telling me we have a Nelson needs to know segment we do we Yeah. Nel needs to know Nels needs done. Oh, all right. That's the theme song for this segment.

Nels Jensen:

All right, I have 10 questions, but we're only gonna do three. So

Joey Strawn:

Okay, perfect. That's all I was gonna allow.

Nels Jensen:

So all right, as soon as we get our SEO house in order, the page structure, you know, h ones h twos, you know, everything. Google stuff just gonna change its algorithms, right? How often do they change these algorithms? And, you know, should I be concerned about that at all?

Joey Strawn:

That's a very good question. And the answer is, there's no real set schedule. Um, Google changes their algorithms really, really frequently. There are massive changes that happen at certain times or certain instances. And usually, those are probably at 123 a year. Most SEOs are people using tools, you know, that we've mentioned, or that I use, get notified via those tools that happens. And Google has a great blog about all the changes that they're that they're doing and some of the things that they're focused on. So most of the time, there are changes kind of happening all the time, major ones that get a name that have like penguin or things like that, or Panda, those, those will happen more or less frequently, and are usually advertised and talked about more often than not. Now, more often than not, those types of changes. And even all the frequent frequent ones throughout the year are not going to affect the SEO of a site unless something major is being changed about how it's being shown in mobile or about how Yeah, a crawl like a sitemap or something. And those those changes are very, very rare.

Nels Jensen:

Yeah, somebody told me a long time ago, as long as you're not trying to game the system, don't worry about it just follow best practices, you're fine, right?

Joey Strawn:

I and I, I've used that theory my entire career. And that is that is what I see always work is just pay attention to what Google says works, do your damnedest to do it, and then most of the time, you're going to be fine. Okay, question two. So you've talked about the harmonious harmony, you know, organic and paid got to work together, whatever. Does the messaging need to vary? I mean, is it? Can I use the same phrases and words on my, on my pain that I'm using on?Organic? You can? The the actual, the most frustrating answer I know is it depends. But it depends. But in general, yes. It's all gonna be based off the keywords. So if we know that these types of keywords rank very, very highly, and they're all question based, then those types of phrases should probably be included in the ads that we're placing. But they may very, very well be the same questions that we need to title, a blog post or title, the subhead of an E book section or something that's being organically crawled. So the only real difference is going to be in the intent of the audience. And then we're going to talk about intent and the next segment quite a bit. But the intent of the audience of saying, This is what I'm looking for the closer you can match that in your messaging, the better off you'll be. And that will vary depending on just the Pirker of the piece of content.

Nels Jensen:

Right? And I would think it's not that hard to vary it a little bit.

Joey Strawn:

No, no, there's no my like, variant testing is a great, great practice to be in.

Nels Jensen:

Right. In my last question. So we went on, we typed our brand name in hidden just to see what happens. And sure enough, the competitors keywords are at the top, you talked about how people, you know, maybe, you know, avoiding those naturally or learning to do it. But still, it's irritating that you know, do it, do I need to buy my competitors keywords to do you know, I, they're buying ours should I be buying?

Joey Strawn:

You know, honestly, not only are they buying your competitor terms most often, and a lot of times you'll see that competitors are buying your brand name, and bidding on that term online. That's a sneaky practice. It's one that I love. To be honest, I think it's great. You want visibility for people searching for your stuff, people are searching for your competitors stuff. So get in front of them, if you can, they're spending money to do it on for your brand, most likely. So there's no harm in doing it the other way you don't have to, again, a lot of people's media budgets are based on where the priorities are, you may be really, really focused on hitting trade shows or building a great you know, account based marketing or collateral set for your sales team. And digital marketing or search intent may not be the biggest avenue for you. And that's totally fine. But if you decide that search, marketing and search advertising is an avenue for you, then being competitive about it is a very, very good way to approach it. Make sure that you have content if you're if your competitors are writing blog posts about educational content, make sure that you have educational content about those topics as well. If they're bidding on your brand name and on your product names, make sure that you're also bidding on theirs. It's It's It's good competitive intelligence. And it's can be used as you see fit. So yes, and no, it kind of depends on where your priorities.

Nels Jensen:

Sure, yeah right.

Joey Strawn:

So now, I think actually, that's a very good segue because I am ready to bring in a different perspective here and have a media specialist. Tell us how these two avenues and these tactic channels can work together. Are you ready to head down to the shop floor? And

Nels Jensen:

Let's do it more.

Joey Strawn:

All right. All right, everybody. Let's follow Follow us on down to the shop floor. Okay, now, we have walked all the way down here we are on the shop floor. And I am so excited. I've been teasing you the saying we've got an A Maven, an expert, a marvelous person here to talk about media. We've been talking about holistic approach to how organic and media need to play together, we've dispelled some discrepancies and some misunderstandings in the market. You know, now, I brought you down here to really bring in the experts and here he or she is right now I would like to introduce you and our listeners to Draper Brown, the media maven Draper, welcome to the industrial marketer podcast.

Draper Brown:

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, having me.

Nels Jensen:

So Draper one of the things we talked about was we've invested in good content. We've taken the time to really work on our page structure. Why do I still need paid search?

Draper Brown:

You needed break? The people to all of your good work, you need to bring them to what you have been building, they ultimately need to be shown the way by you, the advertiser that you have the right solutions for them. Nine times out of 10, your target audience has already indicated that they're interested in your product. You've targeted them specifically based on, you know, a myriad of their opportunities categories, what they are interested in, potentially their household income number of kids their hat, they have their job title, where they work, the location that they work in. And so now, you want them to come directly to your website and see the solutions that you have specifically tailored to what it is that they're looking for.

Nels Jensen:

Sure. So is this the same intersection of, you know, the message that I want to put out on my site, the company wants to put up intersecting with what people are searching for what people or solutions they're looking for,

Draper Brown:

you absolutely want to make sure that your content marries up directly with those keywords and key terms that you are wanting to put some paid dollars behind. So making sure that let's say the search term that you're that you that you're promoting, is listed on that web page, because you want that one to one direct interaction, you want a parallel.

Joey Strawn:

So what I'm hearing Draper is that if I just make something and I throw it out on the internet, there's probably so much going on, that it may not be the easiest for my particular stuff to get found, right. There's a lot going on on the internet. Yeah, hard, if you're just not putting any effort into put like foot like generating leads and putting your message out in front of where people are searching. So that's a great segue, I want to lead into why we brought you here today to talk about this particular topic. So Draper, you direct media strategies, you talk to people every single day about where they need to be putting their money behind, because in the industrial segments, one of the things that our listeners are very keen on is not everybody is an industrial, it's not just a matter of like, oh, we're gonna spend a million dollars and put up an ad in the Superbowl, because that's advertising and that's marketing, that we're not we're not at that level, we're talking to industrials, who know have very specific needs very niche things that they need to be found for. So, you know, someone may not have millions and millions and millions of dollars to throw at, you know, search on the internet, but a lot of people think that they have to. So when you're talking to people about the media choices that they make, or that they need to make, how do you navigate some of those misconceptions of Well, I have to spend millions of dollars a month, right, like, I have to, that has to that's what this all this means, isn't it? Like, how do you talk people through some of that?

Draper Brown:

Well, I think, I think that everybody automatically thinks that there's this high price when it comes to quote, advertising, right, in today's day and age again, so you spoke to the idea of fragmentation, the internet is very fragmented. So if you think about that, and you think about where those dollars are going, a lot of people are looking at different media types, media channels, they're looking at websites, they're looking at apps, they're listening to a podcast, they are listening, maybe to traditional radio, they're doing all of these additional activities. So the marketplace has grown. But with that growth, you know, it comes that you could do some niche targeting, you can do some niche planning, you can look at it by geography, for example, so that you're looking at a very small segment of your target audience and the markets that have the most opportunity.

Joey Strawn:

So and I regionalized over here, sorry, and not to interrupt, but I heard you mentioned that earlier, you're talking about geo targeting or targeting people by like, their, like median, I think you said income or investment level income. Yeah. So how, what types of targeting abilities to some of these media channels even have? So let's say we've got our organic content on the side that we know we're talking about, you know, well, it may be fluid control or you know, in what cybersecurity management or something, you know, something very niche. How, what sort of targeting opportunities, would you as a media professional, even have the ability to go after with some of your the media choices.

Draper Brown:

I think in looking at the terms the example that you just threw out which which I believe is fluid control. Yeah. For example, you want to think About the application of that, right? So is it fluid control in the sense of, you know, it's oil in somebody's car? Or take it one step further? Is it oil in somebody's commercial vehicle that they are using while doing their job. And we as industrials are going for that ladder. And we're trying to dig deeper and understand the application of that term, and connecting that with the audience that we're trying to serve our clients ads to. So we want to be as specific as we can. And with some of that specificity. You can spend less dollars, because you're only going after a segment of that keyword audience.

Joey Strawn:

Wait, wait, wait, wait as the media profesional telling me to spend less? No, no, it's not I'm joking with you. You were saying there's a way that you as a professional would say you could spend less in media? No, but you're not being efficient. Right. Right. Come on. Yes.

Draper Brown:

Well, you want to be efficient. So again, fluid control is probably not the best example. I think I could give

Joey Strawn:

No, no, I was just hypotheticals up. But..

Nels Jensen:

Draper it speaks to our industrial buying cycles to where, you know, we have this elongated cycles, and they're not even linear. And how do we target the purchasing manager? While we also target the engineer who's more interested in whether we, you know, have the exact fluid control parameters you're talking about? But the purchasing manager is looking at it from a completely different lens? Can you target personas as well as targeting segments?

Draper Brown:

Yes. So the purchasing manager, nine times out of 10 is looking at bottom line, how much does it cost to get what they're trying to do? Done? The engineer is, is countering that and saying, we might have to spend a little bit more, because we have to get these certain controls to meet either certain standards, maybe it's an OSHA standard, or maybe it's something that, you know, they're missing from their overall output to make them more efficient. So, you know, it's trying to marry the right message with the right audience.

Joey Strawn:

So if, for example, sorry,

Draper Brown:

I doubt that purchase manager, we might want to include the price tag, or we might want to include a price range. Or we might want to connect him directly to the sales team so that he can get a quote immediately, with the engineer or somebody who is looking into the specifications of that product or of that service, we might want to provide them with a checklist or we might want to provide them with, you know, specific information that pertains to that product, so that they can look at the specs and say, yes, this meets all the criteria that I need, I'm ready to purchase. C and that's later on.

Joey Strawn:

I love that, because that goes ties directly back to something you were talking about earlier, which is keywords. And I know some people will hear keywords and that are listening and be like, Oh, no, like, I don't want to dive into keywords. But like, this is a great example of where that ties to say, you know that an engineer and a facility manager or a purchasing manager are going to be asking different questions. We know that that's an easy way to say it that there questions, not keywords. So let's make sure that when we're spending money to answer those questions, we're spending it correctly. Like I like that. And that ties back I mean, now. So you and I talk on this show all the time about the importance of personas and understanding who you're creating content for. I mean, no, that's your life. You're living Yeah. content for that mindset. And here, again, is that holistic approach to all of this, not only are we creating organic content with a mindset of what our customers asking, what are our personas that our markets thinking and needing from us, but Draper, now you're saying that in connection to that, even though it's not like we're going to spend a million dollars in our organic rankings are going to rise? That's not what we're saying. But we need to create content with the same universe and the same mind frame of these are the questions and these are the things we are answering for these target markets. And that I think that's a great marriage of kind of a lot of those concepts. Because whether you're spending money or whether you're spending time, you're always creating towards those goals, to try and hopefully produce something beneficial for your market or something helpful or answer a question or lead someone into your funnel at the right place and at the right time for them based on why they're doing it. I like that a lot. I mean, and we're not just talking digital marketing. I mean, I know Draper you live in like media kits all day long looking for opportunities like this.

Unknown:

I was just about to say that, you know, I think that also people think that advertising has to be constant 24/7 365. But you also want to look at the timing throughout the year, is there a hot season? Or does do you have some periods throughout the year that you know, aren't as busy. So maybe you can taper off on your advertising during those months, and then ramp up in the hotter season. And then again, you want to look at media kits, like what is okay, so say you're in the oil and gas industry, let's just stay in this industry for a minute. And you got four or five different media kits, trade pubs, you want to look at those editorial calendars and see what they're talking about throughout the year. And there could be some things that are directly tied back to your product or service. And those are the ones that we want to focus on, where you think we think you should be. And then some of the others that maybe fall on the outskirts of the message that your message that you're trying to promote, maybe those aren't the ones that you identify as the issue or the the timeframe that you want to add to your media plan. And it's it's all about balance, truthfully, to maintain your your spend to understand like what your your clients or potential clients are wanting. And to also understand that, you know, the target audience may have identified time of year that they're going to be making these purchasing decisions and you want to a lot of there.

Joey Strawn:

A lot of industrials have planned shutdowns. So they know from Alright, from September 17, through November 3, we're shut down for maintenance for this for that for this. So we either need to a be very heavily ramping up our book of work or be not be adding a bunch of stuff to a queue that we can't finish. Right. To your point, knowing that and approaching that in a planning and thoughtful way is key to just not wasting money. I mean, we're in the industrial b2b segments, we don't have money to waste,

Nels Jensen:

Right, Draper let me trade for let me throw another layer on top of that for question. So is this could be internal or could be external, it could be around a product launch, which is more internal, or maybe it's around trade shows and activities that we know involve the prospects. So that could be more external? I mean, is it probably one or both, you know, product launches or trade shows or I think is good,

Draper Brown:

I think I think it's both. And I think that that's the other thing that you want to make sure that you uncover when is the product launch is the product launch going to coincide with the tradeshow because then there's an opportunity to promote that product launch at the trade show, and get more legs and more miles out of that trade show sponsorship. And also, you have a good way to go ahead and like introduce the product, maybe you're making it exclusive to the tradeshow attendees that attend your booth, and then you're going to release it to the rest of your target audience. So it's an opportunity for you to promote that partnership, ensure them get it on the ground floor, before it's opening to the public or into adjuster group.

Nels Jensen:

Or I think I'm gonna answer my own question or let's align with our company goals. Maybe it's to increase the certain segment, maybe it's to reach a new market, you mentioned geography. But obviously, the more you know, as a planner, about our goals and our objectives, the easier it would be for you to come up with a strategy.

Draper Brown:

So lately, if you're trying to make a sale, what does that sales cycle look like? Is it a four month sales cycle? Is it a 12 month sales cycle? Those are the kinds of things that we also need to know. Because we want to bring that audience in to your funnel, we also want to make it beneficial for not only them, but also for you like, how is this going to affect your bottom line? And getting this person in the funnel? How soon are they going to be willing to make this purchase? If they are indeed ready? Press get

Nels Jensen:

Right. Right. It might not be the new product launch, it might be the old standby that actually has a shorter sales cycle. And we haven't emphasized that in a while but maybe we should.

Draper Brown:

Or maybe it's both maybe you get with the with the lower hanging fruit and then you you know, tease the the new product and then maybe they're ready, you know, to, to sign on for that when it launches. Right?

Joey Strawn:

Well, and I mean, and, and to kind of wrap in and pull everything together. There's that old adage and Draper I'm sure you've heard this being in media as long as we have but like the well I waste 50% of my marketing but I'm not sure which 50% so you know, the old, the old the old adage I think the ultimate goal here and what we're trying to get towards is we can do way better than that. We can tell Way better percentage of what's working and we need to be able to account for that because just throwing 50% of the marketing budget away, it's not good enough anymore like we can do better. We can do better than that we've I feel like and so Draper, thank you so much for joining us today we will definitely be having the media maven back as the more and more we talk about, we've got an episode coming up and a little while about trade. You know, his trade dead we hear trade is dead all the time. And I want to know if that's true, and our listeners want to know, so we're going to dedicate a whole episode to it coming up here soon. So Draper, we're gonna have you back. But thank you so much for joining us today. And I will let you get back to work but what you've been a valuable asset here on the shop floor today.

Draper Brown:

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

Joey Strawn:

Well, Nels, it has been a fan another fantastic episode. And as always, I've been thrilled to go on this journey with you. I hope that our listeners have enjoyed it as well. And if this is your first time listening, thank you so much, feel free, and definitely subscribe to the podcast, you can go to our website and industrial marketer comm and find old episodes, old articles and a lot more resources there. Follow us on social media, Facebook, and we you can find us on LinkedIn as well. But as always, we are here to help make this industrial conversation more impactful, more meaningful and more profitable for you guys. So keep joining keep listening and we will listen to you and see you next time on the industrial marketer podcast.