Episode 20: Transitioning To Post High School Life with Dan McManmon of CIP (College Internship Program)

Dan McManmon grew up in western Massachusetts with four sisters, six foster brothers, and an adopted brother. Dan’s father, Michael McManmon, founded the College Internship Program (CIP) in 1984 and was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome in his late 50’s. The experience and relationship growing up with his father have had a profound effect on his understanding and compassion of Autism, ADHD and related learning differences.

Dan studied multimedia and marketing at Champlain College and Autism Spectrum Disorders at Elms College. He began working at CIP a residential instructor and National Marketing Coordinator in 2005 teaching independent living skills and person-centered planning at the CIP Berkshire Center in Lee, Massachusetts. In 2007, Dan assisted with the opening of CIP’s fourth program site in Berkeley, California. In 2010 he relocated back to Western Massachusetts and served as CIP’s Director of Admissions and Marketing.

Dan is a member of the Autism Asperger’s Network (AANE), Learning Disabilities Association of America (LDA), Autism Society of America (ASA), and the Young Presidents Organization (YPO). His co-authored work on Reframing was published in the Autism File Magazine and he is a contributor to Autism & Learning Differences: An Active Learning Teaching Toolkit released by Jessica Kingsley Publishers in 2015.

As President, Dan strives to achieve long-term vision and alignment with CIP’s core values and founding principles by ensuring operations, marketing, strategy, and programming are effectively implemented across the organization. He enjoys producing music, photography, hiking, biking, and spending time with his wife Nicole, son Marlow, and daughters Arbor and Juniper.

https://cipworldwide.org/

Transcript

0:07  
Hello, and welcome to the autism in real life podcast. In each episode, you'll get practical strategies by taking a journey into the joys and challenges of life with autism. I'm your host, Ilia Walsh, and I'm an educator and the parent of two young adults, one of which is on the autism spectrum. Join me as I share my experience and the experiences of others so that we may see the unique gifts and talents of individuals on the autism spectrum, fully recognized.

0:41  
Hello, everyone, and welcome. This is Ilia with autism in real life, and I welcome you to today's episode. Today. I'm excited to have Dan McMahon in here with me from the college internship program or as I first learned CIP. So some of you may have heard that he's the president of CIP. And we're going to talk a little bit about transition and programs like the college internship program. So welcome, Dan. Thanks so much. Thank you for being here. And if you could just give a little background about yourself, that would be really helpful for listeners. Sure. Yeah. So I've been in the field of autism and transition services for the past 16 years.

1:27  
kind of had a an interesting way of getting involved. My father was diagnosed on the autism spectrum in his 50s. He's a psychologist, and he's also the founder of CIP. So I was always familiar with the work that we did, and helping people at a young age. But going into college and coming out of college, really, I had a knee injury that brought me home three consecutive years for surgeries, that was unexpected. And I had been studying multimedia, graphic design and marketing. And took up that opportunity, literally, when I got back on my feet to both blend my interests, passion for marketing and graphic design into the work that we were doing at the time for my father's organization, and then also just helping out in life skills arena with our students, as a direct support professional, teaching students, person centered planning, cooking, shopping, recreational activities. And I really got a lot out of that, personally, of doing the work with the students and being in a role model position with them. And even though I had grown up in and around the CIP centers, it was different being in that position. So from there, to kind of a long, slow journey of working in different positions within the organization, moved out to Berkeley, California, and we opened a center out there,

2:53  
had our first child in the Bay Area, and then moved back here to take on a position as director of admissions and marketing, and then eventually as president. So it's been kind of I always joke and say, it's the slow, boring version of recovered boss, right.

3:11  
You know, a 10 year period, essentially, when I was finding my own way,

3:15  
in life after shifting courses, so I've always had, you know, fondness for the population and familiarity. It's sort of been ingrained in our family since the beginning. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, it's, it's interesting how sometimes we find our way to things.

3:34  
And so I'm curious, I know, you said, you opened up at AIR, a center in the Berkeley area, where else is CIP located? Yeah, so we started in 1984, here in Western Massachusetts, and Lee in the birchers.

3:51  
So after, you know, this is when I was pretty young here, and my father was running CIP. And after about 12 years, we opened up a location in Melbourne, Florida, based on just a recommendation of one of my father's close staff members. And at that point, we had really started to carve out a specialization in autism and realized here in the Berkshires, that that worked really well and developed the whole curriculum. And then as we expanded that, we really realized that the students with learning differences and the students with autism really all benefited from similar services. So we took that model and went down to Florida and open that center.

4:35  
So within the next, you know, about two, three year period of time when my father sort of saw this and was kind of a maniac and is hard to develop in these things. He went to Florida, he went to then Bloomington, Indiana, then went to Berkeley, California for a little bit of time. We were in Amherst, New York, near Buffalo, and then to Long Beach, California. So currently we're we

5:00  
have the five locations. Two in California, one in Indiana, one in Florida and one in Massachusetts. Wow. Okay, so you are a pretty I mean, yeah, you got something in in most areas, although not in any, you know, you'd have to travel a little bit. But I think we should back up. You've talked about so many things. You talked about a lot of different, you know, terminology within the transition world. You talked about the CIP in general, but can let's, let's I think back up a little bit and talk about what is the college internship program, and what does it offer? Sure. So it's commonly known more as a transition program.

5:38  
So this is an alternative coming out of high school to more of a specialized program with a residential component, that CIP at least, in which you live and study and learn,

5:52  
in concurrently can attend the local college or you know, and develop skills in employment arena through internships, community service jobs. But essentially what CIP is, is you take this unique set of people coming out of high school who need to be prepared for that transition from adolescence to adulthood. And if you were to bring all those key services under one roof, creating a community of its own, that's within the local community, and then individualizing, certain services to those students needs. That's the general idea of, of CIP, and many transition programs. CIP probably has a bit more range of services and depths of services than many places.

6:38  
We've been at it for a long time, and we've built something pretty robust.

6:43  
But a student coming into this program would typically be 18 to 26, they would be having fairly comprehensive needs in terms of social skills, help with academics, college, help with time management organization, some activities of daily living and could use support and structure to maintain. So you're sort of taking all these building blocks in you're seeing what the priorities are, and what the needs are. And you're providing those that amount of support and structure through a student's daily, weekly, monthly time. Over the course of a year, typically two to three years is a common window of staying here. But helping that student then find their path through, you know, higher education, employment, independent living, and doing so with a community of peers within the program. So they're living learning together and participating and sort of forming that critical mass of focusing on what comes next. And, you know, the real need here that we're fulfilling is that many students on the autism spectrum or with learning differences, really have trouble fitting within society within the world, identifying what they're good at getting help addressing their specific challenges. So this type of environment

8:04  
is very conducive toward helping that student chip away, day to day, week to week through that time period of establishing goals, building on experiences and finding that direction of what might be a happy and productive pathway for them as they enter into adulthood. Yeah, I mean, this sounds like a very comprehensive, and I would even say, intense kind of program. And so before we kind of go down into what that programming looks like, what what was the inspiration for creating an end? Again, I, as I said to you, before we started recording, I know CIP from, you know, working with various families and clients, and I've heard some amazing things. I was really only familiar with the Massachusetts

8:53  
piece of that, and you know, just have recently come to realize it, you know, you are kind of naturally a little more broad. And I'm curious what the, what the reason the why and why CIP was created? Yeah, that's a good question.

9:11  
So get in prior to 1984. My father, he, he's a psychologist, and he had worked in group home settings. So he had made his way after,

9:24  
you know, working in a few different settings to Las Vegas where his brother lived. And he actually started a group home there and ran that for a number of years.

9:34  
There was some work that brought him to Massachusetts, essentially. And he stumbled upon the area in the Berkshires and liked it. And he worked for a similar kind of organization in some ways here, but very shortly after that, he really was inspired by this whole like, it wasn't that long ago, but this deinstitutionalization process was occurring in which, you know, people were put into institutions as a

10:00  
solution for their challenges, right. And, you know, that was something that felt very wrong to him and was a movement at that time. So that was his inspiration for creating at the time in a transitional apartment setting program. So taking individuals and putting them into real life and teaching them real skills to function within society, was really where his passion was, was at the time and continues to be in when he started CIP, it really was an evolutionary process to begin with that in mind, as he was the the gardener, the director, the therapists, you know, everything

10:38  
and took something very small in, made it successful in its own right. And then once that was the case, and he built a curriculum focused on autism, and he developed a professional advisory board, he always tells the stories where he is, at that time, we didn't run in the summer, his whole staff he took, they developed this curriculum, they presented it to some key players in the autism field. And they all just, it all passed with flying colors, they said, this is beautiful, perfect, this is what's needed.

11:09  
So I think that gave him that that clarity of okay, this is something that is, is very valuable in this time and needed. And honestly, there weren't too many programs or services at all, or even an understanding of autism in any major way. Back then. So that's kind of how we got our roots. Yeah. So let's talk about the programming. So what is the what is the outs? You know, I always like to ask, like, what is the day to day look like? So what what would a family and student or client expect when they you know, from the beginning to when they show up? I mean, it might be a lot, but I'm just curious what that looks like? Yeah, so we run about 43 weeks a year. So we have some small breaks in between three major terms. So kind of like a trimester model, like higher education. So there's a familiarity and then enrolling and, you know, we start in the fall and in there's kind of a school setting type of model there. But what you're doing is you're moving into an apartment with other students, so you have roommates, you're sharing responsibilities and taking care of you know, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, your organizational systems, then you're attending the CIP center for usually about 20 to 30 hours of support a week, these might be an individual model, like a module like advising, where you have a personal advisor who helps you goal set and budget and really keeps track of your progress in the program. Or it might be a group modules such as, like peers. For young adults, you know, the UCLA program, that might be a small group module, you may be attending a college class, usually, students come and they might take one or two to begin with, to get their feet wet, and to balance everything out. And then you may be involved in volunteering and community service, during the course of the week with a lot of fun social and recreational opportunities. We've done it. So the typical day is, you know, around an eight to four, the services within that time period, and then then the evenings, you might have some support with,

13:25  
you know, some of those other items like cooking, grocery shopping, menu planning, roommate meetings, you know, things to essentially help facilitate productive, residential living and apartment living.

13:40  
So generally, students are staying for two to three years, they're establishing personal goals within the program.

13:49  
When they first start, they're creating a person centered plan. So we're, you know, this is the important part of the process at the center of it all has a lot to do with self determination being the end run. So our students come in, they typically have a good understanding of what their diagnosis is, they've had past experiences, but they haven't really commonly had a successful experience in which they lived away from home for a period of time and manage that. So they're either coming in proactively needing support or coming from a failed college experience, for instance, where they're really needing to find their path. So when you do this person centered planning process and you put them in the driver's seat, you're really facilitating that.

14:34  
You know, that focus on you're an adult and you're going to drive your life and you need to learn how to do that. So we facilitate that and you know, look ahead 10 years and walk them through, you know, where would you like to be living? What kind of car would you like to be driving a car? What kind would you like to be married in a relationship have a pet? They build these visual boards using using like PowerPoint or something similar?

15:00  
And they build a plan for their life right on the onset of coming to CIP. So, what we're learning from them is what are the interests and the things that make them tick in that they love in that bring value to their life? Who are the people they rely on? What are the goals and things that they want to achieve. And that becomes kind of a dynamic process, because no one sets their life in motion and follows it in a straight line.

15:25  
But that that's an example of kind of trying to tee up the student to be, you know, their own driver in their life. And to do that is often focusing on their identity, you know, who are they? Do they really understand who they are? And then do they really accept who they are. And you can see that in a lot of adults who are really trying really hard, and they're trying to be something that they're not, they're trying to be like other people, and we're trying to help them really embrace themselves really see themselves clearly and be them, their genuine self, which is going to be the best for anybody. And to learn to advocate and disclose and essentially come down to a point in which they're self determined, which means they have some freedom of choice in their life around decision making. And they're equipped to do that in a productive way. Oh, yeah. I mean, again, I want to go back to that feeling like a really intense process, which is definitely something that that age group does face. You know, I mean, it sounds like this would be a really great transition program for most people in that age group. I think. And that sounds like there would be a lot of resources that would be needed. I mean, I often think, you know, back to when I was a parent of a young, you know, a child, and the different resources that I would try to pull in to help. See, right. So I would say, Well, what do we need now? And it would be this again, I was I didn't know what I was doing. But I guess it was person centered, right. But I was like, pulling in, okay, what is this? What is my was my kid need right now? And let me pull in those resources. So different therapists, or maybe it was different programs or nurturing different interests? So whatever that would be. How does that work within the the CIP model? Yeah, that's a great question. So the important point is that it's almost a necessity. If you have a young adult who you feel I can live a fairly independent life, that you give them an option, and that you're not managing their lives for them. So you've done all of that up to that point, and then you get past the high school age here, things need to shift. And it's challenging, and that's where it's really hard for parents to let go of that. So a place like CIP can provide a very safe, structured environment for that kind of growth.

17:53  
And that's kind of a necessary piece of this, you know, you can't really just make your kids independent by making them. And then they have to go through, you know, those steps. So, when they come in, you know, our admissions process is largely an assessment, we have an orientation process, that's further assessment. And then what we have is a variety of services. And we individually assess the student into any of these areas. Some of this is pre teaching and pre learning that is key and important to have on the front end. So we have, you know, ef 101, executive functioning 101, for instance, which teaches you all the terminology of, you know, what executive functioning is and how it works, so that, you know, you're going to, to have that content fresh in your head as you're going through the steps. And the same with life skills, and these other areas. So there's some preliminary modules that are designed to pre teach you on key areas that you need to know.

18:54  
There's some services that you would require or have when you come in related to, you know, making sure you have food on the table every night. So grocery shopping, menu, planning, cooking, cleaning. So there's a whole host of services that are just generally required when you come in. But ultimately, you're picking one of two paths. We have two tracks. So you have more of a focus on college academics or more more of a focus vocationally within the program.

19:24  
And that's going to steer the primary focus of your program, but you're also learning in the students are going through the program, maybe dating for the first time, you know, maybe having a monthly spending budget for the first time. Going to college for the first time. You've got some big milestones in there. And CIP is providing a proactive, you know, guide along the way but also a very strong safety net. So if a student does fail, which they will, that they don't fall too far and they have mentors and guides around

20:00  
on them to help them learn from that experience, reset, and move forward.

20:05  
So we're constantly assessing, but typically, because we have those three terms during the year, we're adjusting on a three term basis, ideally, the services that the student is receiving. In within that two, there's kind of two versions of the services we provide. One is more of a curriculum focus, where there's actual content over a number of weeks. And the other end is more of a coaching model, in which we're meeting the student where they are and trying to progress them along various competencies toward, you know, higher levels of achievement. Right. So, yeah, so I mean, so as we look at an individual becoming more independent, learning more about themselves, and, you know, kind of figuring out their path.

20:52  
Are there. Are there other specialists that work with individuals? Like, I mean, are we still thinking like their speech or their mental health, you know, support and, you know, whatever else, you know, is there still sort of, is it extending that sort of safety net that we would think may hopefully, high school and elementary school have provided? Yeah, yeah, the big, the big ones there, so that the different functions that exist within CIP are academics, career, life skills, social skills, health and wellness, clinical and advising. So clinical, for instance, is our licensed therapists. So each student typically meets with a therapist once weekly, maybe twice weekly,

21:42  
really designed to cope to cope with the pressures and existing challenges of transitioning and what comes along with an autism diagnosis, which usually is a sprinkle of anxieties, sprinkle of depression, you know, largely helping that student process this transition and keeping them on track, helping ensure that they stay that their meds continue to be effective for them. So they're continually checking in and bridging to maybe the students prescribing. Psychiatrist, for instance,

22:15  
typically, most of the services students are providing are within CIP, if they're at college, our staff can coach them in terms of coordinating, but we're really trying to put the student in the driver's seat. So some of our locations where we're friendlier with the disability support offices in which we're able to work right off campus. But in most cases, we're just guiding the student along that process and helping them achieve what they need to in terms of registration and coaching and breaking down work in chunking it out and meeting deadlines.

22:51  
So we have a variety of these services under one roof.

22:57  
The employment aspect is like very much a continuum, it's always better. To start with community service and volunteering, for instance, because you're in a lower pressure situation, and you're able to really explore, we find that many of our students may have an idea what they want to do, but it's really not been

23:19  
unreal, unraveled enough to really understand if it is something that is a is a, you know, a potential workforce option for them in the future, or if it's just a passion or an interest. So a lot of what we do is about gaining the experience. And now you've gone into higher ed, you've experienced that you progress through some courses, and you're continuing there, you've gotten your feet wet and some employment opportunities, and you're figuring out, you know, how these two ends come together. Socially, you're developing friendships and relationships and you're you may be dating, you may not be, you're interacting with people in the community, there's a lot to that there's transportation needs. So because we're pretty holistic in the sense of having, you know, really 24/7 time with students, over the course of a year at a minimum is sort of the year to year commitment that students come into the program, we're able to facilitate very healthy relationships from that standpoint. And the challenge for us is not delivering on the services as much as it is coordinating internally as a team, to make sure that that's fluid in to make sure that the student is driving their experience. And also just a lot comes up in the context of life that

24:38  
affects a student's experience and our ability to drive the services. So it's a great proving grounds for experiencing life in a safer setting with a variety of resources. When you look at all those different teams working together,

24:54  
sort of like for for us in the world of work if you had a board of personal advisors

25:00  
There's, you know, helping make good food choices, helping you, you know, go for that promotion you want in your job, you know, stay energized and intrigued around, you know, your education. It's a similar type of way to think about the programs that you have these resources, but you have to be willing to be in the driver's seat and take those steps, we can't do that for you. Right? No, and this is why, you know, personal coaches exist, whether they're for, you know, fitness, or whether they're for being a leader, or, you know, we have a whole industry around personal coaches for all of the things that you're talking about, that anyone can tap into. So to have them all housed in one place is, is super interesting. And I wonder, you know, as, as people are sort of in this program, what is, what is the transition out of your program look like? So, you know, once they once, I guess, a team decides that, okay, like, it's time to go, I imagine first, that would be a difficult process, because they've been so ingrained with you, but also, what does it look like? And you know, what are the outcomes look like, after a program like this? Yeah, so did way the program generally is designed as a student average stays two to three years, typically.

26:20  
Really, what you have is you have a high amount of support

26:25  
that tapers and you have gaining independence that increases over time. So the idea here is that around to a year, or two or three, if a student stays that long, or even within the context of a year, that you're you're being provided adequate supports being met where you need to be, but also tapering that out to give you the most opportunity you can to sort of show improve and practice these skills. So it's a very individualized process for each student. And especially if you get into pursuing like matriculating at a college.

26:58  
Sometimes students are here to get into it, and they transfer off to a four year college, sometimes they want to complete it all while they're with us. So there's really no definition of success for any individual student. But how we work is on a year to year basis, right around now, in the earlier part of the year.

27:19  
We're already talking about next year, and we're already planning for next year, and we're speaking with the families in the family in the student are indicating that they don't intend to come back and that that's where their trajectory is taking them, then we're already kicking in the transition out services that we would provide to ensure that we have a healthy offering for them. So they might be looking at apartment options, they might be applying to colleges. So we're trying to phase that in to the end of our program, because it is very individualized for each individual student, and family. And there's life circumstances that come up that change.

28:01  
So it's not as defined on that. And that's why it's flexible. But typically, you know, the minimum a student comes is a year.

28:09  
And typically, you know, a maximum, probably we've had students stay up to four or five years, but that's less common. It's usually about two to three.

28:18  
So when they're partying, you know, again, that's the challenge is, what are they intending to do? And families when they come to us in the first place? often ask that question. Okay, this is great. What happens, you know, after that, right? Oh, that's always the big question. But our goal is to provide the experience to help prepare the students so that they have a resume, they have defined employment experience that they've, if they're in higher ed, that they've established themselves onto a career path, you know, that socially, they've made friends and learned how to,

28:51  
you know, interact within the community and environment that, you know, through life skills, focus, that they know how to take care of their basic needs, and, you know, make their money stretch. So is each of our functions has a certain mission and objectives related to it, too. And then the students and the families have individual goals within that. Yeah. So I mean, I'm curious, your your name, his college internship program, and I'm hearing that there's two tracks here. So how do you reach families that might not realize that this is also could also be a career track, like some people, and I actually just had this conversation a couple weeks ago with people saying, well, no, they only do college. And I was like, No, I don't think so. Because I'm actually talking to Dan and a couple of weeks that I think they do other things. So even who I would say, you know, people in the know, didn't all know so.

29:49  
You know, I'm curious how you kind of share more so people know that it's not just college. Yeah, no, it's that's a good vignette into the problem that exists for a family

30:00  
So, families are very much on their own to just identify these resources. And it's so individualized because it's because each student or you know, their children are very different. And their needs are very different. So the problem is that they're navigating these things. And that's why places like A and E and other organizations are really a great clearinghouse to connect you to a community of people who have experience professionals who are really aware of what options there are. But the amount of services and differentiating factors that do exist in these programs and the amount of change that occurs on a regular basis. Even within CIP one center might skew a little one way, we might not have many females one year, we have many females next year. So these are all factors that require families to get their feet wet, and go out and take a look and ask questions, which is not easy at all. So it's a real problem, there are educational consultants who can help you for a fee. There are some great websites out there that are emerging, but are usually focused around college. So on the vocational end, it is a challenge because, you know, people typically think, okay, you know, career tech programs, and there are some great things, but a lot of it focuses around technology, and it and it's really again, supporting individuals who are already pretty capable.

31:31  
So I don't know what the answer is for us.

31:35  
We get out there in a variety of ways. I mean, we're we do podcasts, we do opportunities, conferences, and events, advertisements, kind of the whole gamut, a lot of social media stuff.

31:50  
If I was to point families in the direction of how to best find these resources,

31:56  
I would say you have to sort of identify if you can identify a group of families who like a very solid support group, or an organization like Annie that helps bring that together. That's your best bet. Because you need real solid advice and information. And then you have to fully go in and ask the right questions and get past, you know, the glossy websites and the the information that is out on the internet, because it's just the nature of this that you need to see it for yourself. Yeah, no, that's a that's an excellent point, it really gets into I know, this is this is a well respected program.

32:36  
But there are some people who might not be able to access this. So first, yes, you might have five locations, but for some families, or for some people that might feel too far from where their home of origin is. And it might not be something feasible, also, you know, maybe budget wise, it's not something that fits into their budget. So and you've given us so much information already on like all the different aspects of transitioning. But if there was something I know educators think about this to not just families, like how do I prepare my students? How do I prepare my kids, whether they're your students, or your own kids, to be able to be independent, and to really get them set up for whatever the next thing is, as they move past the school age? Yeah, yeah, good question. And, you know, I think

33:28  
there's two points that sort of come first one is,

33:32  
our types of students, the people we work with tend to skew earlier, younger are socially and emotionally, right? Like, they might be two to three years behind the typical traditional student without learning differences or autism. So you've got that in there. But then you also have this sort of coming of age timeframe. So there's a gap that does exist in that. And that's a real thing that can be difficult. So I would say for families, you know, give like recognize that as a gift. Give yourself those two to three years, don't feel so pressured. But at the same time, you've got cognitive rigidity that can set in with age, and you want you want to address things early. So there's a, I think it's important to understand that a lot of what happens in the younger population, you can address a certain way. But when you get into young adulthood, you're really helping that person fend for themselves and be accountable for themselves. That's different than what's taught at earlier ages. So some of the things that are really beneficial are very practical. Having your child just a child is easier. Having your child do laundry, cook grocery shop, have chores around the house in which they have to contribute. Those are key things not to be overlooked. And you might think, oh, their life is so hard and these are just simple things I can do to help them but it's the wrong thought there. You really have

35:00  
To get them engaged and taking care of themselves. Executive functioning wise, there's many great tools out there. I know it's kind of like a very scientific brain based

35:12  
concept here, but the reality is you can do time estimation activities. Even George McCloskey is like an elf guru, he talks about, just have them guess what time it is throughout the day, like get a sense of time, then guess how long it takes for them to do that chore, right, and help them understand, oh, that took twice as long and wonder why and just be more inquisitive on that end.

35:37  
Too big things, though. Social skills. Again, you can't be the everything for your child. So an easy opportunity is to find someone you trust to act as a social mentor, someone who shares similar interests with your child who can go out in the community, and practice some basic social skills, stay engaged in the community, stay excited, in you know, get some feedback from someone else, all of my kids are young, they all listen better to other people. And there's probably not much difference there.

36:10  
The other thing is community service, again, as I mentioned, so volunteering and community service, you know, if you're interested in animals, these are, for instance, these are easy opportunities to get involved in something you love, and you're passionate about, and you want to show up and you want to be a part of, and then to bridge that, you know, especially if you think about, okay, social mentoring and community service. Now, I'm involved in an area of interest with someone who's a social navigator, who can help bridge that interest to this is why it's important to connect with people and create these relationships. And really understanding that, from a social capital standpoint, you know, they're the people with disabilities really do die earlier, if they don't have a certain amount of social connection in their life. And you can really map that and understand that and make that a driver, you know, there's a logical way to look at that, that many of the students on the spectrum really connect with. So these are ways to keep students engaged productively in in things that bring enjoyment to their life, or to stretch them further by having someone else who's not their parent, you know, that parent dynamic can shift a little bit,

37:22  
setting them up and having them test the waters and try new things. In doing it, we use it a lot in general, but doing it based on their interests, so that, you know, they're more willing to stretch themselves. Yeah, no, I think that's all important stuff. And I think a lot of what you've been talking about here is,

37:42  
it's just sort of scaffolding on the building self awareness, so that there's the more self awareness we have, the more we can address a lot of these,

37:53  
all of these topics that we've talked about, right, because you don't know what you're interested in for work, if you have no sense of what it is you enjoy and what you like, and how it might be applicable. Or, you know, you don't know how to necessarily manage how to go grocery shopping, or how to manage, you know, a, like a kind of a spike in anxiety, if you don't recognize, oh, this is anxiety, or Oh, I really don't know how to, you know, manage all the aisles that are in a grocery store, because it's like cold and bright and all these things. So I think there's like multiple steps that happened here to be able to kind of, I think some of it sounds like you build a little bit of that within the program, but you need to come with some sort of baseline of self awareness in some of these areas. Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, we, we don't accept a variety of students either for, you know, their challenges or are too great, you know, maybe in the mental health side of things behaviorally.

38:50  
Or if there's this underprepared, if they've really can't manage in a semi Independent Living setting,

38:56  
it often is the case that they just haven't been given enough responsibility or opportunity to, to try or to experience new things. So

39:07  
you know, staying at a relative's house overnight, like these are all important factors, because you think about, you know, life happens at this age, and you don't plan it well. So you have to be, you have to show up, and you have to be open to things. And those are two things that are really difficult for, you know, the young adult population in general, but now with autism, especially in this day and age, the default mode is often isolation, right and rigidity. And so that's really what everyone is battling. And I think, as a parent or caregiver, the more that you can

39:44  
create, you know, that scaffolded support, but that URL starting at an earlier age and the expectation of these things being done.

39:55  
You know, maybe that's where some of the behavioral approach works at a younger age just to really reinforce

40:00  
like exercise, for instance, or movement, you know, students are on medications, they're on screens, like, like we at our house have a rule, like you can't be on a screen unless you've done some form of physical movement or activity for a certain amount of time. And it's a good balance point. If you can create these rules early, they can help create healthier habits. And those habits can, you know, persist lifelong, which is huge. Yeah, many people. Yeah, no, I mean, that sounds like a pretty good thing I should think about doing myself. But you know, I spend most of my time on the computer for work. So but to take that break in between is important. But again, I think you're right, like building some of these skills early on, would be super critical. And, you know, I think all of the things you've mentioned, here are things that we can think of, and are really hard as a parent to think about. And even educators, again, also sometimes can think, hey, you know, this, this kid is, is already struggling with so many other things like, you know, I'll go, I'll go get their, you know, lunchbox for them, I'll go help them open up their snack or whatever. And I'm just thinking of examples that people have told me about, but again, like, key teaching strategies of how they can do those things for themselves. And I think there's also a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment, when, you know, kids, teenagers, young adults start recognizing that, oh, I can do these things, I actually can do so many things. And I think sometimes it's hard, because they've been hearing for so long, that there's difficulty with things that when they can do things, I think that needs to be celebrated even more, because I think that's that's looking at it from the strength based model instead of just the deficit model. Yeah, yeah, no, it's exactly right. And I think like parents specifically need support around themselves to make sure that they can sustain that it's not, it's, it's just parenting is difficult enough, but you know, at this age, where you're, you're, hopefully taking some risks with your student to get them out there and to, you know, let them take the bus home or whatever it might be, but you really have to support yourself, you know, I, I find that feedback goes a long way with families.

42:22  
But it's not easy. And it's everyone's on an individual journey. So if you have a community around you, you know how or that comes together. And you get your students started early on these types of items.

42:35  
There's so many dynamics, and then patience, right is sort of that big. Next ingredient, is just allow it to happen and have trust and faith that, you know, figure out what what you feel like is what you can put into it, and recognize that, you know, you can't fix it all and that life will need to happen. But the circumstances just change dramatically in

43:00  
many cases around, you know, once a student has some opportunity to do something, if they're in the right setting, and they have the right support around them, oftentimes are far more capable than parents assume. Right? Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. And that's what we're, that's what we're aiming for. And so I appreciate you joining me today. And I've I've learned a lot here. And I'm really hoping that families and other listeners, you know, have taken away some some really good information and nuggets here. And if people want to learn more about CIP and your programming, what's the best way to find you?

43:39  
Yeah, just on the web, CIP worldwide.org. We have

43:44  
a educational resource library, a lot on our social media channels of content, lots of articles, information, so plenty of plenty of resources there on all topics related to transition and adulthood. Thank you so much. I will put all of that information in the description for this. So thank you so much, again, for joining me. Thank you. I really appreciate the time and the opportunity. You're very welcome. We'll take care and we'll talk to you soon. Take care thanks.

44:21  
Thanks for listening to autism in real life. This is Ilia Walsh. And if you like the show, please hit subscribe so you can get notified each time a new episode is released. I also offer training, consultations and parent coaching and would love to help you in any way that I can. You can check out my offerings at the spectrum strategy calm and when you join my email list. You can get a code to receive a discount off of an online class or a coaching session. Looking forward to hearing from you take care and see you next time.

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