Disrupting Burnout
Disrupting Burnout with Dr. Patrice Buckner Jackson is dedicated to overworked, undervalued high-achieving servant leaders who give all to serve others and leave very little for yourself. You are an accomplished woman with many responsibilities and you often find yourself overwhelmed, exhausted, and burned out. I’ve been there. As a matter of fact, burnout almost cost me everything. Compassionate work can carry a high price tag: your mind, body, spirit and relationships may be in distress as you serve the needs of others. I am here to equip your hands and refresh your heart so you can serve in purpose and fulfillment and permanently break cycles of burnout.
Disrupting Burnout
123. How to Have the Hard Conversation
Hey Friend,
Ever wondered how to handle those tough conversations that you know are essential but dread having? This week on the podcast, I, Dr. Patrice Buckner Jackson (Dr. PBJ) am here to guide you through the art of navigating difficult dialogues to prevent burnout and foster healthy, fulfilling relationships.
In episode 123, titled "How to Have the Hard Conversation," I draw from personal experiences, including a transformative lesson from my husband, Edward, to share practical tips for ensuring clear communication and mutual respect. You'll discover strategies for taking breaks, jotting down your thoughts, and engaging in calm, productive discussions that help you be heard and build trust.
Before stepping into these challenging conversations, preparation is key. We dive into the necessity of self-reflection to ensure your emotions and personal experiences don’t cloud your judgment. By checking your emotional "backpack," you can approach conflicts with empathy and respect, making sure all parties feel acknowledged and valued. Learn how to package your message thoughtfully, manage your tone and body language, and create an environment where effective communication thrives.
Join us in mastering the art of handling tough conversations with dignity, ultimately leading to stronger, more resilient relationships.
**P.S.** Don’t forget to subscribe to our newsletter at https://www.patricebucknerjackson.com/ to stay connected and be the first to know about upcoming episodes and special incentives!
Love Always,
PBJ
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Friend, is there a conversation you've been avoiding having? You know you need to say the thing. You know you need to set the boundary, you know you need to address the behavior, but you've been avoiding it. Or is there a conversation you've had recently and you wish it had gone better? You recognize you could have done better. Let's talk about it, friend. Hey, friend, I am dr patrice buckner jackson, but you can call me pbj.
Speaker 1:Welcome to another episode of the disrupting Podcast, where we are giving you the strategies for pouring out purpose without burnout. And one of the ways that we avoid disrupt burnout in our lives is by having hard conversations. Now, friend, if you are anything like me, you would much rather avoid, run away from, stay away from the hard conversation. I know, I know I'm not proud of it either. It's just in my nature. I just want everybody to be happy. I want everybody to feel loved and feel like family. That is just my nature. But leadership has taught me, life has taught me, that every now and then we need to have the hard conversation. And, friend, you may say hey, ppj, I'm good, I don't mind having a hard conversation. I don't have a problem saying the thing that nobody else wants to say it doesn't bother me to be the bad guy. But what I want to ask you is how's that going for you? Because sometimes, when you're the one who doesn't mind jumping in, it doesn't mean the way you jump in is effective. So is your approach to the hard conversation working for you? So that's what we're talking about today, friend how to have the hard conversation. And I want to start this out with telling you all how my husband, edward, taught me how to have the hard conversation. So it was about a month into our marriage and it was our first intense fellowship. Now, friend, we don't argue, but every now and then we have a little intense fellowship. All right, every now and then. We haven't had a lot, we haven't had a lot, but we've had a few over the last 13 years. And our very first one, I'll never forget it.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what the disagreement was about. I don't remember what we were angry about, I have no idea, but I do remember we were both angry. I mean, it was not a good day in the Jackson household that day. Not a good day in the Jackson household that day, to the point where, at some point, edward said okay, we need a break. We need a break, we need some air. We need to stop because this is not working. So Edward decided to go to a different room in the house. He did not leave the house, but he did go to a different room and I remember that being probably the cleanest house I've ever had, because I had to put that energy into something and I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned.
Speaker 1:Well, eventually Edward came back out and I remember the sun had gone down. I don't remember how long he spent away, but I do remember when he came back to me it was evening and he came out with two folding chairs, which we still have, and he brought those folding chairs into our living room area and he sat those folding chairs facing each other and he came over to where I was and he grabbed me by my hand and led me over to the folding chairs and I sat in one and he sat in the other and there was just enough room for our knees. I remember our knees were touching as we faced each other in those folding chairs and he had a legal pad and a pen in his hand and he handed me some paper and a pen and he looked me in my eyes. He said I have some things to say to you and if you will allow me to get them out, I promise you I will be quiet and listen to. And he started reading from that legal pad Friend, I don't remember to this day what he said, but I certainly remember how he made me feel as he read each line on his legal pad. I remember feeling like my defenses were coming down. I remember feeling like my defenses were coming down. I love this community because you all show up and show out.
Speaker 1:Friend, we are 97% towards our goal of 25,000 downloads of this podcast. As soon as we hit the goal, as soon as we hit it, I am going into our email list and I am going to pull three names from my email list of people who will win a one-on-one, one-hour coaching session with me. Friend, listen, I cannot wait to support you. Let's keep going. Listen to this episode, share it with a friend. We are 90,. We got 3% left, 3%, friend, and we have hit this goal. I cannot wait to celebrate with you and I cannot wait to support you. Be sure that you are subscribed to the newsletter patricebucknerjacksoncom. And click subscribe patricebucknerjacksoncom. Click subscribe. Let's celebrate, friend.
Speaker 1:In that moment my husband taught me that it's okay for me to be an independent, strong, fiery woman. But I could trust this man. I could trust this human being sitting across from me. Again, I don't know what he said, but I remember how it made me feel. I remember feeling empowered. I remember feeling heard. I remember feeling loved and when he had read his list, just the point that he took the time to go and write his thoughts and to bring them back to me meant so much to me. But in addition to that, in his reading, I remember thinking he actually heard me. He heard what I was trying to say.
Speaker 1:See, I need to give you the context. So my husband's parents have been married over 50 years to this day. Over 50 years and that's not my testimony. As far as how I grew up, I grew up with some very fiery, powerful take no stuff women, right, and I love that and I appreciate that. They put that in me, that fighting spirit when I need it, that stand in the middle of the storm, you can't shake me, kind of thing. That's what my mama and my grandmamas and my great grandmother and my great great grandmother I got generations that I know spent time with love before they left this earth, and all of those generations of women put a strength in me, a fire in me that I'm so grateful for, and in that moment my husband taught me that I do not have to bring that fire against him, that I don't have to defend myself when it comes to him, that I don't have to fight when it comes to him, even in disagreement, even if we're not on the same page. He taught me that I am safe with him, and I took that lesson. I took the way he approached me. I took that lesson. I took the way he approached me. I took that lesson to the workplace. I took that lesson into friend relationships. I took that lesson into my relationship with our daughter, and anytime I need to have a difficult conversation, I follow the pattern that Edward taught me.
Speaker 1:Now let me just qualify some things. So, not only being a leader in higher education at the highest levels, but I've also served as the conduct officer. What does that mean? As the conduct officer, I've been in a position to tell people that they are suspended from school, they are expelled from school, they are on probation. I've been in position to explain to parents why we are holding their student accountable for a violation of our code of student conduct. I've been in position to tell a faculty member, a staff member or another student that whoever they accused was not found responsible for what they accused them of, and that was not a fun conversation either. Unfortunately and tragically, I've also been in position to break news to parents and siblings and significant others that they've lost somebody that they love.
Speaker 1:So this is coming from that experience with Edward, but also using that framework in some of the toughest conversations that one might need to have, conversations that one might need to have. So I want to equip you on how to have the hard conversation, because I am convinced that we are not living by our boundaries. I'm convinced that we are ignoring misbehavior in the workplace. I'm convinced that our cycle of burnout, the phases of burnout in our lives, may be amplified because we are avoiding a conversation that we need to have. And I've also seen where a person may not avoid the conversation, but they may not approach it in the most effective way. Um, so I want to offer you some thoughts. Again, this is just for your consideration, right? Everything that we share here on this podcast is from my personal and professional experience, from what I have seen what I've read, but I want you to consider what and how these tips may fit into your life and your needs and make a decision as to what will work for you.
Speaker 1:So let's go back to this conversation with Edward and break it down as far as the template and the format that he used to have the hard conversation with me, the template and the format that he used to have the hard conversation with me. The first thing that I learned is taking some time to evaluate yourself is important. The first thing Edward did when he realized our intense fellowship was not going into an effective direction, he put a pause on it and he separated himself to go think about it. And I have found massive value throughout the years in pausing for a moment. Now, if you're pausing for two weeks, three weeks, that's not a pause. That's ignoring. So that's not what we're talking about. But if you pause for 24 hours, 48 hours, it gives you time to do a few things. First, it gives you time to check your own heart right, and I'm not talking about gaslighting. I'm talking about, I believe, an effective leader in self-leadership.
Speaker 1:I'm going to start with me. Am I tripping here? Is there something in my backpack that's causing me to feel the way that I feel or see this situation the way that I see it, because you know you don't see things the way they are. You see things the way they are. You see things the way you are. So I think it is responsible for a person a leader, a professional, a spouse, a friend to check your baggage first, just to see is there something here that is causing me to see this situation? Do I have a filter? Do I have an experience in my backpack that's causing me to see this situation a certain way? So take a pause to check your own backpack, to see how you're feeling, to see what's showing up for you, what emotions are you feeling and why are you feeling those emotions? What's causing the anger? What's causing the anger? What's causing the frustration, what's causing the disappointment, what's really behind it?
Speaker 1:Taking a pause is to check your own baggage, but also taking the pause allows you to prepare for the conversation. So, after you've checked your backpack and you've determined that this is indeed something that needs to be addressed, then that pause is an opportunity for you to gather your thoughts, for you to make some notes, for you to prepare for the conversation, for you to even rehearse the conversation if that is needed. For example, if you need to address misbehavior of a staff member, it may be helpful for you to work with somebody in HR to walk through what you need to say, how you need to say it, what points need to address and some what ifs in the conversation. What if they disagree? What if they walk away? What if they're not willing to hear you? Taking a pause gives you some time to work through some scenarios so that you feel more comfortable approaching the hard topic. So it's okay to take a brief pause.
Speaker 1:Don't feel like you have to jump right in. Every situation is not urgent Now. There are some that are more urgent than others. I've been in situations where we've had to break news to family quickly before it was shared on social media or before they found out in a way. That was just not empathetic, and that's harder and harder with the internet age. But we try our best to connect with loved ones and give them bad news before they hear about it a different way. In those situations I didn't have 24 hours. I definitely didn't have 48 hours. So having practice with this process and having other hard conversations helped because I already had a format in my mind of how I give this kind of news or how I give an update or information that people might not necessarily want to hear. So you won't always have the 24 hours or the 48 hours but, friend, when you do have it, use it. When you do have the time, use it one to check your own baggage and two to prepare yourself for the conversation.
Speaker 1:In preparing for the conversation, I want you to consider how you address all needs involved. Let me tell you what I mean. So most of the time when we need to have a hard conversation, there is conflict involved. Now, conflict doesn't have to be a dirty word. When you study the origin of the word conflictus, it literally means to strike against, and when you have conflict, it is differing needs striking against each other. So all of the people involved in the conflict may have different needs and those needs are striking against each other. Those needs may be in opposition to each other. So take some time to identify not just your own needs, but what are the needs of the other party. What are they fighting for? What are they desiring? What are their real feelings and values? Within the conversation, within the conflict? What do they need.
Speaker 1:Because when you address, when you have the hard conversation, it is so powerful not just to say what you need, but also to show that you've been listening and you can identify the needs of the other person, so that they know that you're not just thinking about you, but you're also thinking about them. You're also thinking about them. So what are the needs of the other person, the other party, the other group, what do they need? To accomplish as well, not just what you need and don't leave out what you need, because that's not effective communication but to at least identify, even if you are not necessarily coming up with the solution for everybody, right? I don't suggest that. I think when groups are involved, then the group should be involved in the solution, but to be able to identify the needs, to let them know I hear you, I'm listening and I'm not just invested in what I need, but I'm also invested in what's important to you and what you need, friend, that's powerful and it draws that person in, it helps them to release their defenses, it helps them to trust you because they feel heard and they feel seen.
Speaker 1:So you want to take time to check your own baggage, to see what you're carrying what filter you might have on this situation. Number two you want to prepare for the conversation. Maybe a script, maybe an outline, whatever helps you be ready to share the most pertinent points, right? And in those points you're including not just what you need but what the other party or what the other group may need as well. Just identifying those needs as you've heard them, and make room for them to correct you if you've heard them incorrectly. Make sure that you make room to check in to say did I hear you? Am I missing something? Right? So you prepared for the conversation, you have your outline, you have your notes, you've even rehearsed it with a trusted person an appropriate trusted person, right? And it's time to have the conversation Always address it with the package of love.
Speaker 1:Now, this is whether you are at work or whether it's personal. When I say love, I'm talking about respect for humankind, respect for the other person. Your package matters. Your tone of voice, your eye contact, your body posture, even how you're seated being seated versus standing and whether you are in close proximity, like all of this matters when you are prepared to have a hard conversation. So think about where are we going to have this conversation.
Speaker 1:Edward positioned those folding chairs. He didn't have it on the couch, we didn't have it at the dining room table, but he brought out those folding chairs and positioned them in a way that I could look him in his eyes and he could look me in mind. He positioned them in a way that he could hold my hand as we were talking Now. Professionally, of course, I would not have a setup so close right. There would be some space, some room, whatever is appropriate for that particular relationship and that conversation. But think about, think about the room, think about the positioning, think about the seating, think about the positioning, think about the seating. Think about what would invite trust. Think about how you create an environment where a person is not being torn down, but they're being built up.
Speaker 1:Just because you're telling someone something that they may not want to hear doesn't mean they have to leave you feeling torn apart. There have been moments where I've had to tell a student that they're expelled from school. You know they've been found responsible for a violation of our code of student conduct, or several violations of our code of student conduct, and they're at the point where expulsion was their sanction. But even in that conversation I was determined to do it in a way that they didn't leave me hopeless. I was determined to give them that information in a way that they knew I cared about them and I was on their team.
Speaker 1:When a person is at that point whether you are speaking to a student, giving them a sanction, or whether you're speaking to an employee and you have to put them on a performance improvement plan whatever the hard conversation is, it can feel very, very lonely. It can feel like you're being thrown away and like the person speaking to you doesn't care. So it's very, very important to share and support. Even in what, in the moment, seems like the worst of circumstances, it's very, very important to still be loving and caring and nurturing and supportive. One way you can do that is to talk about what's next, what happens after this, because the news that you've just given them can be so overwhelming that they can't even consider that there's anything next. Talk to them about what happens next and how you may be able to support them or connect them with resources that will help them with what's next. So you want to take time. If you can take time, prepare yourself, address and identify all needs of everybody in the conversation.
Speaker 1:Say it with love. Package it with love. Set the room up, make sure your tone of voice, your eye contact, your body posture, make sure you're talking about what's next, no matter how difficult the news is, and finally be clear. Be clear and direct. Say the thing, whatever it is. Whatever you need to address whether you need to set a boundary with someone you love or you need to address behavior of a staff member, or you need to say something to a student or a patient or whoever you serve say the thing.
Speaker 1:I know that we've been taught to sandwich things right, like say a nice thing, then say the hard things, then say another nice thing. But research shows us that human nature, we only remember the hard thing anyway. We don't remember the two nice things. And when you give me the two nice things only to say the hard thing, then the two nice things don't even matter to me anymore. It doesn't seem genuine, it doesn't seem like you mean it, it doesn't seem real. So it is more impactful just to say the thing. Identify the behavior, identify the setting of what happened, say exactly what happened. Say exactly what happened and the impact of that and say what happens next.
Speaker 1:Be direct, say the thing. People can handle hard news if you'll just say it. People can process, they can deal with it. It may be hard, it may be emotional, but you got to trust your people that they can manage it. But you got to say the thing. Whatever the hard thing is, you got to be clear Don't walk around it, tiptoe around it. Don't talk around it. Don't take 30 minutes to get to it. Get to the thing, say it. Take 30 minutes to get to it. Get to the thing, say it. Respect that person enough to not hold them in limbo waiting for the shoe to drop. Just say the thing and I'm going to close with a bonus.
Speaker 1:I didn't plan this one, but it just came to mind, so I want to share this one with you as well. Allow the person to prepare for the conversation. So, if you know you need to have a difficult conversation, a hard conversation, you're preparing, so let them prepare. Hey, tomorrow at three o'clock I need you to meet me in my office. I need to talk to you about A, b or C. I know, I know it may seem like oh, how are they going to respond? No, I need to talk to you. I need to talk to you and, even if you can't say specifically, say enough so that they can prepare themselves emotionally.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we withhold because we don't want the person to have a response ready. But what I've found is when I've given that person time to process as I've had time to process the conversation can be more effective. So again, work with your HR people, whoever your people are. You know your people. People take from this what works for you and what means something for you. But I've found that if I'm going to take the time to prepare, I want them to walk in and know what to expect. I don't want them to be side swiped or surprised. Okay, all right, friends. So I think we're going to keep talking about this next week because I've got more I want to share with you, because I really think it comes down to avoiding conflict when we don't want to have the hard conversation.
Speaker 1:So next week we're going to talk a little bit more about conflict and how, what we need to address conflict head on. So come on back next week, let's continue the conversation. Friend, you can have the hard conversation and you can do it well. You can have the hard conversation in an effective way if you remember that the person that you're talking to the human being, regardless of what they've done, they deserve respect, and so do you. So prepare yourself, take the time, address all needs, be direct, say the thing All right, okay, friend, as always, you know that you are powerful, you are significant, you are significant, you are brilliant, absolutely brilliant, and you are loved. Love always, pbj you.
