Hormone Pellet Therapy: What to Know About Bioidentical HRT, Testosterone & Detox

Thinking about starting hormone therapy? Wondering if testosterone pellets are right for you?

In this episode, Juanique and Dr. Brian Rodgers unpack the real story behind bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (HRT)—with a specific focus on pellet therapy. Whether you're navigating perimenopause, dealing with low libido, or chasing energy and mood stability, this conversation covers what hormone therapy can and can’t do.

They explain why so many people don’t feel better on pellets, why hormone imbalance symptoms are often misunderstood, and how gut, liver, adrenal, and mitochondrial health play a critical role in getting real results.

What we cover in this episode:
• What bioidentical hormone pellets are and how they work
• Testosterone therapy for women—who it’s for and when it backfires
• Common HRT mistakes that lead to estrogen dominance and symptom flares
• How to support detox pathways before starting hormone therapy
• Why gut and liver function determine how your body handles hormones
• The difference between symptom relief and true hormone balance
• DIM, methylation, and why your hormones might be getting recycled
• When pellets work—and what to fix first if they don’t

Timestamps:
• 03:00 – Hormone pellet basics: how they’re made and how long they last
• 06:30 – Jumping into HRT too early: what most people get wrong
• 14:00 – Detox, DIM, and liver support: how to prep the body
• 22:30 – Women and testosterone: the case for and against
• 29:00 – Recirculation risks: why symptoms flare post-pellet
• 35:00 – How to fix hormone issues from the ground up
• 45:00 – Final thoughts: test properly, follow the order of healing

Key phrases this episode touches on:

• Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy for women
• Hormone imbalance symptoms
• Estrogen dominance and perimenopause
• Testosterone therapy for energy and libido
• Detox before hormone therapy
• Root cause approaches to HRT
• Hormone pellets pros and cons

This episode is essential if you’re considering bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (HRT), weighing the pros and cons of hormone pellet therapy, or wondering if testosterone therapy for women is the right step for you. You’ll learn why symptoms like low energy, mood swings, and estrogen dominance can’t be fixed with pellets alone—and what to do instead for real, lasting hormone balance.

Resources & Links:

• Book a consult with Dr. Rodgers at Provo Health: 801-691-1765
• Join the final live cohort of Gutsy Health Academy: https://www.mygutsyhealth.com/gutsyhealthacademy

Related episodes to listen to next:

• Sex Hormone: Sex Hormones: The Final Layer in the Order of Healing with Dr. Rodgers
• Thyroid Health Series (Part 1 & 2)

Transcript

Dr Rodgers (00:00)
Now, one thing I'm not a big fan of is when just for the sake of it, giving Pregnenolone or DHEA, because these are precursor hormones. And if you give too much or too little, you can unbalance all the hormones below them in this hormone cascade and you will accelerate dysfunction. So you've got to be very careful when you're giving Pregnenolone and DHEA. And I use them, but I'm careful about them.

Juanique Grover (00:28)
Welcome to the Gutsy Health Podcast where science meets soul and healing becomes a reality. I'm Jeanique Rover, your guide on this transformative journey to reclaiming your health, vitality and freedom.

This season, we're diving deep into the order of healing, starting with mindset and working through the layers of what it truly means to heal. Each episode is designed to empower you with tools, knowledge, and hope so you can become the self-healing advocate you were meant to be. For more resources, free classes, and downloadable quizzes and guides, visit MyGutsyHealth.com. Let's rewrite the future one step, one insight, and one courageous choice at a time. Now let's get gutsy.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Getty Health podcast. I have my favorite Dr. Rogers here. So Dr. Rogers, welcome back. You know, it's funny, we were just talking before I clicked record on like how I get several emails, sometimes a day of other guests wanting to come on the podcast. And I'm like, I don't think I want to do that anymore. Like, I just want us to talk about the knowledge that we have and how we can share it with people so they can become like their most

Dr Rodgers (01:12)
Thanks for having me.

Juanique Grover (01:34)
empowered self-healing advocate. So you guys don't be surprised if you just get a lot of me and Dr. Rogers in the future. And this is also a very selfish opportunity, Dr. Rogers, for me to just pick your brain. Let's be honest. Like I didn't have to go to medical school. You went to medical school for all of us. So you give us like the most important and juiciest details that we need over our bodies. So thank you for falling on that sword for us.

Dr Rodgers (01:45)
Okay.

No problem.

Juanique Grover (02:01)
All right, so today's podcast episode is kind of like part two of sex hormones. So last week, if you didn't listen to last week's podcast episode, highly recommend that you listen to it because when it comes to healthy sex hormones, they don't work by themselves. They work as a cohesive unit with every other aspect of your body. Sex hormones influence almost every cell in your body, but every like organ and system, when you look at the order of healing,

Every step in the order of healing has an immense impact on sex hormone health. And so if you want healthy sex hormones, you have to have a healthy mindset, healthy mitochondria, a gut that is functional and that doesn't have dysbiosis, a liver that is working and detoxing. You have to have adrenals that are working properly. You have to have a thyroid that's working properly. And then only then

do we start to kind of like micromanage sex hormones if they're not working very well? And so go listen to last week's podcast episode because even though we didn't directly talk just about sex hormones, we spoke about all of its friends that influence it. So if you want to become a sex hormone expert, listen to that podcast first. Today we're going to be talking directly about sex hormones, what they are, the different types, the organs and all of those things that...

influence sex hormones or make the sex hormones, we're going to be talking about bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, the different types. We're going to be talking about hormone imbalances and symptoms of hormone imbalance. I think we talked on that a little bit last week. We'll brush up on it today. Who's a good candidate for bioidentical hormone replacement therapy? And then we might touch on menopause. As it always goes with every episode, we kind of just fly by the seat of our pants and see where it goes.

end up talking about menopause, amazing. If we don't, we'll just create another podcast episode around that. But before we launch into hormones and everything that I told you we're going to be talking about, the Gutsy Academy enrollment starts August 1st. If you want to become a self-healing advocate, if you want to do the 90 % of your healing journey, like you want to be in charge of that, which this is your reminder that you are in charge of 90 % of your healing. It's not Dr. Rogers. He's 10%.

If you want to learn how to be the expert in that 90 % of your healing and then bring on amazing doctors like Dr. Rogers to help you co-collaborate that last 10 % to get you over that hump, the Get's In Academy is enrolling all of August. We start September. It's now an eight month program versus a seven month program because we've added the section of thyroid and the module of thyroid and teaching you about thyroid health.

And this is also the last time that I am going to be coaching a cohort in the Getzi Academy. I'm probably going to take a few years off to just kind of be a mom and take care of my kids. Something else is in the pipeline though. So look out for that. But like, this is going to be the crème de la crème of all cohorts and I'll tell you why. Not only do we have Gina, who's going to be taking us through body mindfulness, but we're bringing on belief system coach, Britt Lefkoe. She's

honestly world renowned. Like she rubs shoulders with like Oprah's life coach and Prince EA and she's incredible. She works with top CEOs that run multi-million and billion dollar companies. And I've said this before, she's 1500 an hour guys. And she is giving up time and energy to help coach our cohort.

through mindset shifts and blocks that everyone has. Like every time that woman opens her mouth, she blows minds over and over and over again. And so she's such a powerful tool and asset. We're bringing on Kelly Clark, who's gonna be teaching cooking classes, and she will be doing individual, like one-on-one cooking sessions with you. If you are not feeling confident about how to cook, how to like retain the nutrients in your food, you can schedule.

30 minutes with her as many times as you like, and she will take you through the steps and the skills and what it takes to learn how to cook healthy, nourishing, tasty food. that's awesome. Isn't it crazy? Yeah. And not to toot my own horn, this course is amazing. It changes lives. Like you will be a different person after eight months. If you put in and again, everyone asks me, what's the time commitment?

Dr Rodgers (06:20)
That's a bargain just there.

F

Juanique Grover (06:37)
One to two hours a week, that's it. And that includes joining the Zoom call. you can't, there's prerecorded classes. Let me explain to you guys what to expect. Every month, there is a section that we're talking about. So September is mindset, October is mitochondria, November is gut, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So every month you are released prerecorded modules on that topic. And then every week on Wednesdays, you join the coaching call. We're talking about that topic.

we're integrating about that topic. You're asking your questions about your healing. Like I am your BFF health coach in the back of your pocket answering questions for you. Like I am helping you understand your body, the information that you're learning, and I'm teaching you how to integrate it. Gina is teaching you that. Britt is teaching you that. Kelly is helping you with that. And when I go to like companies and I tell them about this course and they ask, how much do you charge for it? And I'm like, well,

When people sign up early, it's $9.95, but technically it's a $1,400 program. Everyone comes back to me and says, that course is at least eight grand, if not 12. And I'm like, I know, I make it really inexpensive because I want everybody to access it. I want no excuses for people, right? They're like, I can't afford it. You can't not afford it. It is so affordable. And we have payment plans too.

If you're like, can't afford the thousand dollars upfront or the 1400, then you can do three different installments, but you're handheld, you're taught, you're coached. You are taught how to integrate that information. This is truly a course that I am beyond proud of. I'm beyond proud of. It is, I don't know how to make it more perfect. And so if you put in the work, you will be a different person in eight months. I even have a full money back guarantee.

If you attend all the Zoom classes, if you watch all the classes that are pre-recorded and you still don't think that this course was valuable, we'll refund your money 100%. Because I know if you do the work, if you watch the courses, if you take in that information and you participate in your healing journey, because that's the thing. This course isn't for everyone, guys. Like you have to be an active participant.

in your healing. You can't just show up to a doctor's office, pay a bunch of money and be like, fix me, give me a protocol. It's not going to work. Remember, that's 10%. What about the other 90 %? You have to be an active participant in your healing. If you don't want to be an active participant, this course isn't for you. I don't want to waste your money and I don't want you to waste my time. So this course isn't for everyone. But if you're ready to empower yourself and if you know that you can become a self-healing advocate,

Like you feel it in your core, in your bones, and you're like, I know this is possible, and I'm ready to step into that vibration and frequency of self-healer. This is the course for you. If you don't believe that, this might not be the course for you. And so you might need to do some work first before you embark on a journey such as this.

Dr Rodgers (09:47)
And I find from my standpoint, when they take this course, people are so much more prepared when they come talk to me and are my job can be so much more effective. If people know what they're doing, coming in, if they know how to cook for themselves or to do these other things and prepare themselves in the order of healing, it helps me to help them much, much better. We can get to the root of the problem.

Juanique Grover (10:11)
People would have to see you less, so they're saving money, they do less protocols. Again, they're doing that 90 % of the work. Like wouldn't your jaw just drop Dr. Rogers if someone came to you and said, hey, I'm having these chronic infections. I know there's a biofilm involvement. I'm doing this protocol so far. How would you have me change it? Like what would you do if someone said that to you in a consult?

Dr Rodgers (10:35)
That

would be amazing if people understand that. The other thing is sometimes they might need a little bit more education in another direction. Sometimes we may need to enhance what they're doing, make little teeny changes, but they already have the knowledge so they can understand those changes that are happening.

Juanique Grover (10:52)
But what you're doing is you're saying, I'm going to help guide them and help them make teeny changes. You're not like completely taking control of their healing. They are already in control of their healing. They already have the ball rolling.

Dr Rodgers (11:06)
We become a better, more effective team. Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (11:10)
Exactly.

And wouldn't you say people that are educating themselves, implementing and integrating all of this information, they don't come into consults with you with a victim mentality, right? Like a lot of people come in and they'd be like, I tried everything, nothing works for me. I'm a lost cause. You know, like I find when people are already defeated and already are telling themselves that they can't heal, they're not going to. It's kind of like this like,

Okay, how do we get you out of your head and out of your beliefs to help you further your healing? How do we get you out of the right? Because when they stay in victim, when they feel that helplessness, we can't fix that for them. We can't help them progress. But when they are empowered, when they have that core belief that their body is a self regulating organism, and it is designed to fix itself. Now we can work with that.

Dr Rodgers (11:44)
Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (12:06)
Now we can move mountains. Now you're going to see miracles because that's what self-healing advocates do. So I am so proud of all of my past alumni students. We have these gutsy hangouts like every other month and like we get together their language, their confidence, their excitement over their healing. It is so invigorating. And again, I wish I could do the coaching this program every year, but like I said, I just need a few years off to just

Kind of be a mom. I'm not going to be gone forever, I promise. But like what a beautiful, beautiful journey to witness is seeing people completely change and heal. Change their language, change their energy, change their biochemistry. That is magic. Like that's magic. It's miracles happening, but based in science and soul. So without further ado, let's talk about hormones. If you're ready to heal, I highly, highly, highly recommend the Get's You Academy.

it is going to rock your soul this year, I promise. So, Dr. Rogers. Yes. Let's talk hormones. Let's pick up where we left off last week. We were just about to talk about the different types of sex hormones. let's start there. Hormone 101. What are sex hormones like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, pregnant alone? Tell us a little bit about all of their roles in

Dr Rodgers (13:10)
Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (13:31)
menstrual cycles, fertility, mood, bone health, libido, brain function, you name it. Give us what you've got.

Dr Rodgers (13:39)
Okay, now if we were gonna talk about all of their roles, we'd be here for days, but I'll give you the highlights. Give us the highlights. Absolutely. Let's talk about estrogen first. As I have dealt with hormones for long time and helped women with perimenopause, menopause, the first thing estrogen does is help women feel like a woman. Now, I don't know what that feels like, never been there, never done that, but women tell me that.

It's very important to have that estrogen there to feel normal, to feel empowered, to feel like a woman. And it needs to be there. Early on, estrogen helps with breast development. helps with the menstrual cycle. If the uterine wall, it helps the endometrium to grow in the uterus. Estrogen has 400 functions in the body. It helps the skin to be healthy. It helps bones to be healthy.

again, breast tissue, 400 different things. Most of the cells in the body have estrogen receptors. And so that's really, really important.

Juanique Grover (14:46)
there's three different types of estrogens, right? So, estrogen sounds like all of these magical things, but then we hear about bad estrogen. Can you talk to us about the three different types of estrogens?

Dr Rodgers (14:56)
Absolutely. In the human body, there are three types of estrogen. Estrone, which is E1, estradiol, which is E2, and estrone, which is E3. E2, or estradiol, is the estrogen that the human body uses the most during its lifetime. It's the safe one. It helps do all these estrogen functions. When we're talking about estrogen in the body, we're usually talking about estradiol, or E2.

E1 is really, really important when you're a fetus and you're trying to develop into a human. But later in life, E1 is what really can cause breast cancer. And so it's not our favorite estrogen. When you're doing estrogen replacement therapy, you should never ever use E1. E3 works to help protect breast tissue, but the biggest thing that E3 does is help with vaginal health.

And so if you're trying to treat vaginal health with estrogen, E3 is probably the number one thing to be using there.

Juanique Grover (16:02)
Okay. So what is the difference between estradiol, estrone, estriol, and then like estrogen metabolites? Because as you said, like E1, you said it's more cancer prone or inflammatory prone. But then first tell us what is an estrogen metabolite? And then there's different types that are more cancer producing and others that are more protective.

Dr Rodgers (16:25)
Correct. When estrogen metabolizes, it usually goes down one of three pathways. The E2 pathway, the E4 pathway, and the E16 pathway. The four and the 16 can lead to breast cancer. It does a whole bunch of other things, but for the sake of this, they're bad. E16, E4, bad metabolism leads to breast cancer. We prefer E2.

And there are certain things that we can do to help enhance that metabolism so that you're safe. And that's where we look at a Dutch test to look at urine metabolites to make sure that the estrogen is metabolizing correctly. The first thing we can do is make sure people are methylated correctly. If the methylation is correct, usually estrogen goes down the correct pathway. And you talk about methylation earlier on, especially with liver and liver detox. And that's why.

The order of healing is so important. The other thing is, is you can use a product like IC3, DIMM. Those products can help metabolize the estrogen down the E2 pathway to reduce the risk of breast cancer.

Juanique Grover (17:35)
Is that something that people can just take as like preventative, protective? And what are some symptoms of estrogen dominance of inflammatory estrogen metabolites as well as estrogens?

Dr Rodgers (17:48)
Yes, people can take DIMM and I think DIMM is a good thing for women to be taking, men too, because it's a good detoxifier and it helps estrogen go down the correct pathway and in theory should reduce the risk of breast cancer. So estrogen dominance, new subject here with estrogen dominance. Yes, you can have more inflammation. You can have more mood issues. You can be more angry, more aggressive. You don't sleep well.

You can gain weight. There's just, when you have too much estrogen, it causes those aggressive anxiety-ridden type moods. Problems with when you have too much estrogen, you have to detox more estrogen. Detox pathways can get clogged up and so you have to make sure that they're working properly. Have you noticed anything more with the estrogen dominance?

Juanique Grover (18:40)
I was going to ask you, wouldn't estrogen dominance also look like, does it affect skin, weight?

Dr Rodgers (18:45)
Absolutely. With estrogen dominance, you can see more acne. You can see swelling in the skin. You can have swelling. You can have

Juanique Grover (18:57)
Painful menses.

Dr Rodgers (18:59)
Yeah, you can have menstrual problems, obesity, all these types of things can come with estrogen dominance. Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (19:06)
Do want to hear something funny? I was talking with my best friend and I was telling her that I can tell I am entering perimenopause, like the very, very beginning, because I was telling her, I see all these like reels and TikToks of women like joking and being like, me and my follicular phase. And they're like all lovey-dovey with their husband and then me and my luteal phase. And then they're like angry and they're like, don't touch me, you know, and they're like grumpy and blah, blah, blah.

Dr Rodgers (19:08)
I would love to.

Juanique Grover (19:36)
And I told her, I was like, I never knew what that felt like. I couldn't relate because I could never tell when my period was starting. I was just always happy or normal or like stable. Like I never had mood swings ever. And literally the past three months, two days right before my period, I'm grumpy. I even say things I'm a little ashamed to say. I'm like, I don't love anyone. I don't want anyone to touch me. I feel dead inside. I'm like, my gosh.

I can relate to those reels now. And my best friend was like, you don't have any mood swings around your period. I'm like, none. I have no cramping, no pain, no nothing. I'm like, now I'm cramping a little bit. Now I go from a pain scale of like zero to like two or three. And I'm like, why is my back hurting? And then I start my period the next day. I'm like, that's why. And I'm like, this is so weird. I've never experienced this before. And she's like, I just thought

everyone experience insane moods and painful periods and all that. I'm like, no, that's all signs of estrogen dominance. And so I'm noticing, I'm like, uh-oh, I'm starting to have this like estrogen dominance happening because I am now experiencing these symptoms that I've never experienced before, which is why I'm so excited that we're getting pellets in the clinic. Cause I'm like, I need balancing Dr. Rogers. I need some help.

Dr Rodgers (20:59)
As you said, balancing is crucial. It's important because when you have estrogen dominance, it also means your progesterone is likely low. And low progesterone will also contribute to that moodiness, menstrual dysfunction, and pain and all those other types of things. So low progesterone and high estrogen contributes to all those symptoms that we just talked about. Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (21:24)
This is a good segue to talk about progesterone. Progesterone is the mother hormone. Progesterone is this beautiful, lovely hormone that not only helps us make babies, but it's neuroprotective and joint protective and immune protective. Tell us all the things that progesterone does for us and why we love it so much.

Dr Rodgers (21:42)
Well, progesterone helps with your mood. It helps with anxiety. It helps with depression. And if you notice women on birth control pills who are on fake progesterone, it helps with their cycles, but they get all moody and such because those fake progesterones don't do the brain effects of the progesterone. Progesterone is very important for those types of things. Progesterone helps us to sleep. Estrogen causes the endometrium to grow.

Progesterone cuts it off and causes that cycle that menses to happen. Progesterone helps women during pregnancy so that the baby is carried and everything works well. A lot of times with fertility issues, if you give some progesterone, you can help them to have, to carry a pregnancy. And so a lot of those things are really helpful with progesterone.

Progesterone and Pregnenolone are really close together. Let me just touch on Pregnenolone just for a minute. Pregnenolone really helps with the brain, the nerves, the joints and such. And it is the hormone that turns into everything else, including progesterone. And Pregnenolone comes from cholesterol. In fact, if your cholesterol gets too low, you have a hard time making hormones. Pregnenolone can help with sleep also.

But it helps the brain function, memory, building nerves and such progesterone helps more with moods. It helps with uterine health and such.

Juanique Grover (23:17)
So here's some fun facts about just progesterone. And I want to talk about estrogen in a second, go back to estrogen. But progesterone is your natural anti-anxiety drug because it actually activates the GABA receptors in your brain, which is the same calming pathways used in anti-anxiety meds. Like women, when they're actually going through perimenopause and menopause, they're actually put on anti-anxiety meds, which have like negative side effects.

when they could literally just be given progesterone and maybe something like NeuroLink, which has GABA in it. And GABA is a precursor neurotransmitter, I think, that creates like serotonin, dopamine. Also, it just like calms your brain down. I think I got that right. I don't know. I'm not a neurotransmitter expert. You are, Dr. Rogers. So tell me if I'm right or wrong. You can be my facts checker. I quickly want to jump back to estrogen because I forgot to ask about this. Vaginal rhinitis.

Dr Rodgers (24:03)
You're close enough there.

Yes!

Juanique Grover (24:10)
Like tell us about estrogen and vaginal adrenals. So that's a big issue for women, especially as they get older.

Dr Rodgers (24:18)
Yes, their estrogen comes down, they have more more vaginal dryness. With more and more vaginal dryness, you have a change in pH of the vagina, which can lead to more vaginal infections. So UTIs, absolutely. It's important that that's fixed so that people have the comfort and not have those infections.

Juanique Grover (24:29)
UTIs

We're talking about like the pH, would that also play a part in like BV, like bacterial vaginosis? Great. So people are having BV, they're having chronic UTIs, like have your hormones checked because that could be playing a part in it.

Dr Rodgers (24:45)
Absolutely.

Absolutely. As you talk about estrogen and progesterone, what I'm taught about uterine bleeding, the cause can be too much estrogen, too little estrogen, too much progesterone, too little progesterone. How in the world do you know what's causing the dysfunctional uterine bleeding? That's where balance comes in. All these hormones have to be balanced for people to feel right and for these things to work correctly.

Juanique Grover (25:21)
So talking about specifically estrogen and progesterone, what's good, best as far as how do we know if it's bioidentical? How do we know if it's synthetic? Estrogen and progesterone, what are the best forms of it? Oral, topical, pellet, you name it.

Dr Rodgers (25:36)
Okay, that's a huge question, a bunch of questions in one. We have to first look at the difference between what is a bioidentical hormone, which is a synthetic hormone. When it's bioidentical, it means it's the exact molecule that our body makes. And we can look at pictures of what they're supposed to look like and such. And when it's synthetic, it's what the body doesn't make. A good example of that is Premarin, which is

horse estrogen. And in that horse estrogen, the horses have 50 different estrogens in there. Humans only have three. And so even though it came from a natural source, a horse, it's a bunch of estrogen molecules that the human body doesn't know what to do with and how to deal with them. And so they muck up the detoxification systems and the body gets confused and does weird things. I talked about fake

progesterone or progestins. Those are synthetic progesterone that do not have all the same function that bioidentical progesterone has. And they're synthesized in the lab. They're not the same molecule that the human body uses. And they focus the progestins on uterine function, but they don't function on brain function and mood and sleep and such. so people on these fake progesterones start getting

more and more anxiety, more and more depression, more and more insomnia, a lot of times weight gain, other bad things with these progestins. We see those in birth control pills. And that's one of the reasons why women don't do well on birth control pills. And so they have those problems. And so that's the difference between bioidentical and synthetic. And so we here at Provo Health like to stick with the bioidentical hormones.

Juanique Grover (27:14)
interesting.

Dr Rodgers (27:29)
the same molecules that our body makes because our body knows how to use them.

Juanique Grover (27:34)
So you were telling me when we were talking about this hormone podcast a couple of weeks ago, you were telling me some interesting things about like oral estrogen, oral progesterone, vaginal estrogen. It was like blowing my mind where you're like, hey, oral estrogen and testosterone is actually very pro-cancer forming. Can you tell us a little bit more about the best forms of hormones and what we should be mindful of?

Dr Rodgers (27:59)
When we're taking hormones by mouth, when we swallow them and digest them, they go through our livers first, it's called first-pass elimination, get detoxified, and then go through the body. When that happens with estrogen or testosterone, quite often the liver metabolizes those things into molecules that can increase cancer. So we want to stay away from those types of things. So we don't want to be swallowing estrogen.

and testosterone. Now progesterone doesn't do that so we can take progesterone by mouth safely. The first pass elimination doesn't cause problems with that. And so I stay away from all oral forms of estrogen testosterone for people because I don't want to increase their risks of cancer. Vaginal estrogen, I typically use E3 and that's a great way to help with vaginal health for people. So that's not a problem.

Juanique Grover (28:57)
Vaginal estrogen versus a pellet estrogen, which one would be better for vaginal health? Just vaginal estrogen? Because I can imagine if you are intimate with your partner, they're now being exposed to estrogen and that's bad? Or is that not contraindicated at all?

Dr Rodgers (29:14)
we're

looking at the nuances of different types of like you said, that could be a whole podcast talking about all these different types of things. You're correct. If someone puts the vaginal estrogen in and then they're intimate, yeah, the husband can definitely have some problems. But if it's done in the daytime and intimacy happens at night, usually not a problem. However, if patients are having their estrogen levels

corrected properly, whether with a transdermal or with pellets, usually the vaginal health is just fine and they don't need to use vaginal estrogen.

Juanique Grover (29:50)
Interesting. Is it systemically good or just for the vaginal pH and health? Because it sounds like pellet would do the same thing as vaginal estrogen and would have better upstream effects, meaning brain function, bone function, skin function, uterine function, etc.

Dr Rodgers (30:08)
Yes, if we go into all those types of things, absolutely pellet estrogen is going to be more systemic and do all those types of things. Vaginal estrogen typically stays right in the vagina area. However, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. This type of medicine is personalized. Every individual is unique and you have to treat them as an individual. You have to balance their hormones. Each woman is different. Each man is different on what

their hormone needs are and how to balance those things and what their life is like and what their needs are. All that comes into play as you're deciding what type of dose and what to dose.

Juanique Grover (30:50)
So Dr. Rogers, I'm glad you mentioned that. Like everyone's individualized. What I have learned over the years when it comes to hormone, hormone dosing, different sources, different imbalances, different procedures of administering hormone is that hormone replacement therapy is a fine art. Meaning it takes a ton of knowledge, practice, experience to become an exceptional

doctor with bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. What do I mean by that? Well, you've been doing hormones for 20 years. Like I feel like with what I've learned from you and from what I've heard from other people, you could prescribe hormone in your sleep. Here's two stories that I want people to understand because this matters. So one of our nutritionists at Provo Health, her name is Leanne. She used to work with Dr. Rogers years ago at one of his other clinics that you had. And she said that when she was perimenopausal and menopausal, she

breeze through it where she was like, what menopause? She was like, she had no symptoms whatsoever. She felt amazing. Like she had no issues, nothing, right? Isn't that the dream? Like that's life goals. Like that's like middle-aged goals right there, right? Who would love to not have the fluctuations, the sleepless nights, the mood swings, like the anxiety, the depression, the anger. How amazing would that be?

She said she had nothing, like absolutely nothing. But the second data point that I had about rave reviews about you was hormone company instructor. Her name's Tasha. We're probably going to get her on the podcast. But when she came to our clinic, because we're getting pellets in our clinic soon, when she came to us to like onboard us, she was like, Janique, I don't think you realize how lucky you are to have Dr. Rogers. And she was like, Dr. Rogers is the creme de la creme. Like he is what?

doctors like aim to be because he is so good with hormone and he is so good with dosing and he is so good at looking at the body as a whole system. She's like, you are the luckiest clinic on the planet. And Dr. Rogers like, I can't wait for you to see my hormones so that you can just help me with my moodiness around my cycle because it really, it's like artistry, you know, like how an artist would paint a painting with

details and vision and, you know, like different colors and strokes and brushes and different types of paints. Like this is what hormone replacement therapy is like. It is an art form. It is not just something that you look at a number and you slap on hormones, which I see all the time, by the way, it is infuriating because everyone is jumping on this hormone bandwagon. Everybody wants a piece of the pie and they're like, low hormones. You're really low. So we're just going to

course correct with a lot of hormone. And guess what? People are now having these hormone fluctuations, they're metabolizing them wrong, and they're messing people's bodies up. And like, people are like, whoa, that didn't go well. And it's like, well, yeah, and now your liver's failing. now you have elevated AST, ALT, you have elevated homoacistine. Did they talk to you about your liver health? No, that's weird. Did they check your homoacistine? Yes. Did they talk to you about it because it's extremely high? No, that's weird.

Doctors just don't see the big picture. What do I mean by the big picture? We did a whole podcast about it last week where we're talking about all the organ systems and how they play into hormone health. You don't just play in a hormone arena when you're dosing hormones. You have to look at the whole picture. so doctors like Dr. Rogers do that. Wouldn't you say Dr. Rogers, like it's such an art form when it comes to hormones.

Dr Rodgers (34:32)
Absolutely. I had a patient yesterday in her early thirties. She had low libido. She had other issues, menstrual issues that were all out of whack. And a lot of people would say, oh, let's just give her a bunch of progesterone, which progesterone is likely the right thing to do. But in my case, I wanted to check her labs first. I did put her on a little supplement to help her out.

But I want to see what her progesterone is. What I find have found in these clinics, when a woman's just in her early thirties, she doesn't need a lot of progesterone to help things work. A small dose of progesterone goes a long way. Now, when she's in perimenopause, she needs a bit more. When she's in menopause, she needs even more than that. I've seen clinicians, there's a typical dose you give during menopause. I've seen

People give four times that amount. And then now these people have high progesterone symptoms and it's just miserable. They're out of balance. They feel terrible.

Juanique Grover (35:38)
That's crazy. And it just happens all the time. Like all the time. I would say I, out of like eight out of 10 times, I see hormone mismanagement and it infuriates me because the client in front of me has no idea. They're clueless. They're just like, I don't feel good. And I'm like, yeah, I can see why. Let's talk about testosterone. Tell us about testosterone for women, testosterone for men, why it's important, what it does for us.

Dr Rodgers (35:58)
Okay.

Well, we all know about testosterone. It's the male hormone. It makes men men and it, it helps with our brains. It helps build muscle. It helps build bone strength. It helps with libido. It helps all these things. But the interesting thing about testosterone, it's testosterone is also higher in women than estrogen is. Women have more testosterone than estrogen and testosterone is essential in women.

It also helps them with muscle growth, bone growth, and such. And just like estrogen, if you don't have it, can cause Alzheimer's and heart attacks, if you don't have testosterone with the estrogen in women, you get osteoporosis. If you have both those, you can reverse osteoporosis.

Juanique Grover (36:54)
Did I hear you correctly that you said women have more testosterone than estrogen?

Dr Rodgers (36:59)
Yes, that is correct. Really? Yes, more testosterone than estrogen. Yes, obviously men have 10 times or so more testosterone than women do, but women have more testosterone than estrogen and it's crucial to be there. But again, it has to be there in the correct amount, not too much, and it needs to be balanced with all those other hormones. Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (37:04)
No way.

I had no idea. I had no idea. Because we never talk about testosterone. It's always estrogen progesterone. Women are never given testosterone, ever. You know, men, they're given tons of testosterone. But I know testosterone is extremely neuroprotective. It helps with the immune system. It helps with muscle building. And we all know the more muscle you have, the better you age. You know, so...

Dr Rodgers (37:33)
Correct.

Juanique Grover (37:54)
So talk to me about why women are not given testosterone.

Dr Rodgers (37:59)
because

there's a fallacy that testosterone is the male hormone and estrogen is the female hormone. And so people think about that. Men do have a little bit of estrogen. If they don't have that little bit of estrogen, their moods and emotions aren't right. I've seen men who've been put on estrogen blockers who feel terrible if they don't have that little bit of estrogen. On the same hand, women who are not given testosterone

in the right amount, not a lot of it. They also have problems with mood, libido, body strength, enough bone, et cetera, brain health, protecting the heart, all those things are important.

Juanique Grover (38:41)
I love the way that people describe testosterone as it's like, get your shiz done hormone, because low testosterone is like fatigue. It means like your brain is tired. You know what I mean? It's not like a body tired. It's a brain tired. know, low ambition, like you said, no libido.

Dr Rodgers (38:57)
lack of motivation. You can't sleep at night if your testosterone is low. Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (39:02)
Right. Like I'm still blown away that women have more testosterone than estrogen and yet it is never spoken of. And in fact, isn't it like, it's not even covered by insurance. So right now there's a bunch of doctors over at the FDA trying to get testosterone recognized as a part of women's bioidentical hormone replacement regimens, right? Because it comes with like a black box warning for women and testosterone.

And that's such a misconception because so many women are not getting access to testosterone replacement therapy and they're not aging well and they're having all of these things that can be prevented. You know, I love how Tasha says, suffering is optional. You don't have to suffer. Hormone can help you.

Dr Rodgers (39:45)
Absolutely.

And I'll give you some example of that. Now you do have to do the order of healing and do all those things. But I have seen women who've had multiple children and children wreck everything and they're the best things in the world, both at the same time. women who've had a bunch of children, their hormones can be off and giving them a little bit of testosterone, their body's already making estrogen and progesterone enough, giving them a small amount of testosterone helps them to get through these things.

You talk to women more than I do. How many of these women in their 30s and 40s have no libido? And they want to be there and strengthen their marriage, but with low libido, it's difficult to do that. A little bit of testosterone can help with that. They don't have motivation. They can't sleep well at night. Testosterone really helps if it's done in the right amount. You do not want to give big doses of that. That can be bad.

Juanique Grover (40:43)
You know, I truly feel that we are here to live life to the fullest, but hormones can absolutely block that, right? Like you said, like if you don't have proper testosterone, you're not excited and motivated about life. You have low libido. And I have so many women that are like, I love my husband so much and I need help with my libido. I can't just turn it on. Like I can't just like get in the mood. And it's like, yeah, because you're like, you have low testosterone.

you need support. so many people talk to me about this really fast because a lot of women are like, I'm scared to do hormone replacement therapy because it's going to stop my body's own ability to make hormone. When you hear that, what is your response?

Dr Rodgers (41:30)
Number one, if you're going through perimenopause or menopause or andropause, your body is already not making those hormones. Our bodies are designed to stop making hormones at a certain age. So the body's not gonna make them at those ages. And if they're imbalanced at ages that are earlier than that, yes, we try to do the order of healing and make everything right.

But with all the toxins in our environment, all the extra stress, it's very difficult to have those hormones run correctly. Dysbiosis can mess up our hormones, all those things. And even though we do everything to try and fix them, sometimes we can't and we need to give a little hormone to balance everything.

Juanique Grover (42:15)
Well, and you know, a lot of people will say to me, I just want to take a supplement. I'm like, a supplement will only get you so far. Try the supplement, see if that works, but don't be discouraged if your body just can't produce it anymore because we're biologically designed to stop producing hormone after a certain age. Right. And like you said, all the toxins, the stress, it could accelerate the timing of your body's biological clock to stop making those hormones. So

Dr Rodgers (42:34)
Absolutely.

Juanique Grover (42:44)
it's naturally gonna happen. Like don't get discouraged, don't think your body is broken. I'm always saying, hey, your body is capable of healing, but when it comes to hormone, it's also like biologically designed to stop producing it after a certain amount of time. So I'm all for bioidentical. I'm all for supporting the body. I am all for you having the best life you can possibly have with the support of hormones because hormones will make or break you.

And here's the crazy thing, we spoke about this last week. You don't need sex hormones to live. You can stay alive without sex hormones, but to thrive, to enjoy your life, to be low pain, high libido, high motivation, high happiness, high calm, amazing sleep, like hormones are the cherry on the top. They're the icing on the cake. They're the sprinkles. They make everything fun and wonderful and vivacious.

Dr Rodgers (43:18)
Correct.

Juanique Grover (43:42)
and exciting. They just make life worth living.

Dr Rodgers (43:46)
Absolutely. Hormones slow down aging. If you look at people, take a picture of them in every decade, the biggest change you see is from their 50s to their 60s. You can see the aging just really hit hard between the 50s and the 60s. And the reason that happens is because of the hormones. And we start aging really, really quickly.

We've seen what happens as people go through menopause and enterpaws. They age, their bodies don't work as they used to. And so it's so important to keep these hormones there to keep us young.

Juanique Grover (44:25)
Again, suffering is optional. You can survive if you want, but why wouldn't you want to thrive? What are some of the other important hormones other than testosterone that you think we should include in this podcast?

Dr Rodgers (44:38)
Look

at DHEA. We've talked about it a little bit before with the adrenal gland. DHEA is a precursor to both testosterone. Testosterone is a precursor to estrogen. DHEA is also a precursor to the adrenal hormones. And so you want to make sure in the order of healing, you fix the adrenals or the sex hormones are not going to be working properly. DHEA helps with all kinds of things. And that's something we look at.

Usually if we balance the estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, DHEA balances, but on occasion we need to give some of that DHEA to help with brain function and such. We talked about pregnenolone helping our brains a lot. Now, one thing I'm not a big fan of is when just for the sake of it, giving pregnenolone or DHEA, because these are precursor hormones. And if you give too much or too little.

You can unbalance all the hormones below them in this hormone cascade and you will accelerate dysfunction. So you've got to be very careful when you're giving Pregnanolone and DHEA. And I use them, but I'm careful about them.

Juanique Grover (45:50)
actually just going to ask you that. was like, is everyone a good candidate for DHEA? And it's clearly no. Like in certain situations, in certain cases, again, this is why it's so important to have a doctor who's very knowledgeable, who in my mind and my understanding, you don't want to give DHEA to someone who has a lot of inflammation, a lot of stress, a lot of adrenal and thyroid dysfunction, because that DHEA is going to convert into not good hormone for you, right? So have a doctor that can look at the whole picture.

who can see that upstream effect and dose you accordingly. So glad you brought up DHA, because that's kind of a big deal. It's a really, really important one. It could make or break you, honestly. It could really make or break you.

Dr Rodgers (46:31)
Let's also talk about dihydrotestosterone. Testosterone can convert into dihydrotestosterone. Dihydrotestosterone does a lot of things. It causes baldness. I probably have too much of it here. It can cause acne. And so when women get testosterone, some of that can convert into dihydrotestosterone. And so you've got to be careful with that. First of all, you have to give them some DIMM or other

types of supplements to help prevent that reaction from going from testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. And you have to give less testosterone if you've got too much dihydrotestosterone. It can be bad. It can cause prostates to increase in size. So you've got to be careful.

Juanique Grover (47:16)
How do you prevent that from happening? You said dim, like what are some other

Dr Rodgers (47:20)
Usually

does it damn I see three. Yeah, absolutely

Juanique Grover (47:24)
So

men who are balding, they can take them.

Dr Rodgers (47:28)
In fact, in men who I give hormones to, I give them twice as much DIMM as I do women because there's more testosterone. There's more that can turn into dihydrotestosterone. And so we want to prevent that from happening. The other thing is there's a medicine called spironolactone that will also help with that.

Juanique Grover (47:46)
So you're giving people hormone and you're telling them to take certain supplements and medications to like help them convert it properly so it doesn't convert into bad things basically.

Dr Rodgers (47:56)
Exactly. Everything to balance and the DIM helps the hormones to balance properly.

Juanique Grover (48:02)
You know, because again, hopefully people are understanding this. When you put a hormone into a body, you are hoping it's going to convert in the right ways that make you feel good, but there's chances that it will convert into the wrong pathways that make you feel not good. And so that's why it's important to have the right doctor on your team. It's important to look upstream. It's important to consider the order of healing when it comes to hormones. Again, that's why we did an entire podcast on it last week. It's so, so important because you can throw a hormone in a body

and it'll convert into many, many different things. We want it to obviously convert into the good things, but a lot of the time in people, it doesn't. So can we talk about pellets now? I'm dying. You guys, we're going to do a part three episode because there's just so much to talk about. There's so much.

Dr Rodgers (48:47)
We'll talk about pellets and a little hint. Now, as I evaluate people, I look at the best way to give them hormone, whether that's gels and creams, pills, vaginally, or through pellets. A lot of times I prefer pellets because they give the right amount of hormone for a long time. You don't have to think about them. Systemically, you get the right amount.

If you know what you're doing, you can make this happen in people. It's an easy thing. You do the pellet and you don't think about it in women for three or four months, in men for five or six months. And that's great. You have children. You've got all kinds of things going on in your life. If you had a pellet, you don't have to think about great. If you have to think about doing something every day, much more difficult. We'll talk about the pluses and minuses of each of these different types of things.

and why we might choose them on our next podcast. But that's the biggest thing is the pellets go systemically. They help us out. They give us the right dose. They're actually safer than most of the other ways of doing hormones.

Juanique Grover (49:58)
Well, and from what I understand from pellets, there's different technologies, there's different releasing mechanisms, because there's a few things I want to say about pellets and then we'll do more on the next episode. From what I understand, when you're exercising, for instance, your body utilizes more hormone to support the exercise. ⁓ You can't go in and be like, okay, I'm going to add more estrogen cream and I'm going to take more progesterone and I'm going to inject a little bit more testosterone.

Dr Rodgers (50:17)
For me it

Juanique Grover (50:25)
You can't do that because that's way too hard and dysfunctional. And like you can't micromanage your hormones like that, even though your activity is increasing. But with pellet, what's interesting is the more active you are, the more blood kind of flushes over that pellet, which releases a little bit more hormone into your system, supporting the activity. So the more like dormant you are, the right dose of hormone is released into your system. The more active you are, the more hormone is released.

and it's mimicking a natural hormonal cycle. Is that correct?

Dr Rodgers (50:55)
That is correct. It's the heart rate that increases. And so you have more pulses going by the pellet capillaries form around that pellet. Yes, exactly what you're talking about with a cream blood supply doesn't increase with a shot blood supply doesn't increase around that shot. so you don't have that reaction when you're exercising or when you're sleeping. It just doesn't happen when you change your pulse rate like that.

Juanique Grover (51:22)
interesting. I love from what I know about the technology of these pellets that we're using at Provo Health. I love how they work. I love how they function. But again, dosing correctly using the right technology that is patented, the right dosing, the right doctor. Here is a story I've been debating this whole episode if I should share it or not. But I got a text from someone a few months ago and they were like, Jeanique, I need to tell you about a certain doctor.

who is dosing people's hormones incorrectly, and they're talking all about it in this Facebook group. And they were like, this certain person, it's actually not a doctor, it's a nurse practitioner, but they're like, this certain person dosed this person incorrectly and is dosing a bunch of women incorrectly, so much so that the police had to come to their house and arrest this woman because she was acting so aggressive. That to me is terrifying that there are people out there practicing hormone medicine

and they're doing it so incorrectly that people are becoming extremely aggressive that they actually have to get arrested. Like that's really, really scary. Like vet who you're going to, make sure they are excellent because things like that do happen all the time.

Dr Rodgers (52:37)
another patient that they went to somebody else and know that somebody else never got arrested, but they didn't balance their hormones well enough. And so that patient came back to me, even though it was a much longer drive, because they wanted things done correctly. I see that all the time. I see overdosages of hormones because it's easy to overdose them. And initially things feel great, but then when things unbalance,

They feel miserable.

Juanique Grover (53:06)
Totally. So again, just be careful who you're going to. Make sure that you're seeing someone who is very well versed in all the different technologies and administrations of hormone and that they are looking at the whole system of your body, not just hormones individually. So next week, join us for pellets and the technology around pellets and other really fun things we'll talk about. Menopause, perimenopause, like you name it.

It's going to be really, really awesome. Dr. Rogers, thank you so much for our Hormone 101 class today. And anything you want to say before we close up this episode.

Dr Rodgers (53:44)
No, I think we covered a good amount today. I'm excited to look at the different forms of hormone therapy next time and some of these other diseases.

Juanique Grover (53:53)
Also, one last thing, Dr. Rogers is doing hormone consultations. So it's not an initial 60 minute, it's a 30 minute hormone consultation. At Provo Health, we're actually doing this really rad special. And so it is schedule a consultation and bring a spouse or a friend or a best friend for a free consultation. And we're only doing this for the first 50 people. Isn't that crazy? Because we're bringing up our hormone program. We wanna market it. We want people to get excited about it.

Dr Rodgers (54:15)
Wow.

Juanique Grover (54:22)
This is literally the deal of the century, right? You get a free 30 minute consultation with Dr. Rogers. And again, it's only the first 50 people. So that means the first 25 people to book can bring a friend. So come do that. Come get your consultation. From your 30 minute consultation, Dr. Rogers will order some labs for you guys. And then after you do your labs, your next follow-up is when he reviews those labs with you and you get your pellets or you get

prescription or whatever it is that you need to help balance your hormones or your next steps. So that's the process. 30 minute hormone consultation, lab work, follow up with pellet or other hormone replacement therapy. So jump on board because this will go fast. I don't think we'll ever do this again. Again, like I said, we're launching it. We're trying this out. So if you and your husband want to come again, bring your spouses guys, bring your husbands.

Chances are they're probably low on testosterone. They need some hormone balancing too.

Dr Rodgers (55:21)
Let me ask you this. If a husband's watching, can he bring his wife? Yes. OK.

Juanique Grover (55:27)
But again, 98 % of my viewership is women. So I just assume that they're all women. So yes.

Dr Rodgers (55:36)
Someone's gotta speak for the man.

Juanique Grover (55:38)
That's true. know. Thank you. Thank you for advocating for the men. Men, if you're listening, the three men that are listening right now, I am so sorry. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. There are men that listen to this podcast. It's true. But it tends to just attract women. think women are like way, way more into healing than men. Men just kind of...

Dr Rodgers (55:55)
They certainly are. There's no question about that.

Juanique Grover (55:57)
on cruise control and they like it that way. Don't touch their cruise control. They'll get mad at you. It's like fishing. So don't interrupt them when they're fishing. All right, Dr. Rogers, thank you so much. You guys, if you want to do those consults and you want to take us up on that deal, call Provo Health at 801-691-1765. Dr. Rogers is obviously taking patients. And like I said, this will be very, very short. If you've listened to this podcast like months after it's released,

This deal probably won't be going on, but call anyways and schedule with Dr. Rogers. So again, suffering is optional. Sometimes it just takes a sniff of hormones to make you feel like yourself again. Who wouldn't pay to feel like themselves again? It's priceless. It's so priceless. So come in and get better guys. Also, if people are out of state, you can't administer hormone, can't prescribe hormone, but they can still do a consultation with you. They can still do blood work with you and you can still

coach them and counsel them on how to advocate and for what with their doctors. Is that correct? Like, so you guys don't let being out of state prevent you from getting high quality help that you need for hormones. Like have Dr. Rogers coach you through it. He can talk with your doctor or send them an email and kind of guide them on what recommendations they should give you. So come and see him guys. Like if you're out of state,

Dr Rodgers (56:59)
That's correct.

Juanique Grover (57:21)
fly in, obviously that's the ideal. But obviously if you can't fly in, just do the 30 minute consultation with hormones. And that's it. Anything else? You guys will catch you next week for part three on hormones. Have a good week.

Dr Rodgers (57:29)
That should do it for today.