There's a lot of forgiveness there, I am still trying - Rohit R

Growing up in Essex as a child to immigrant Indian parents Rohit Raval's early life was filled with many different and difficult experiences that included deep seated inequality and racism.
 
This is a deeply personal conversation where I am joined by my husband and life partner, Rohit who reflects on his passion for art, forgiveness and his connection to the feminine and masculine energy.

Rohit speaks about nature in art, creativity, meditative mind and human spirituality.
This is a snap shot of some of the conversations that me and Rohit have almost on a regular basis as we share our lives together. 

Please note: This episode contains expletives.

Guest: Rohit Raval
Host: Urmi Raval 
Sound Editor: Maja Pronko 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to Eternal Paradigm. Together, we're uncovering human experience by exploring physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual stories. With me, your host, Ermi Ravel. Hello, welcome to this edition of Eternal Paradigm. I hope you're enjoying your journey to find you. So the last couple of weeks have been... busy and interesting. Things in the UK are now changing slowly. And as things change, a lot of things are going to have to be factored in as we return to normality. But what I don't want to do is dwell too much on what those changes would mean for people. But what I would like to share with you is what we've got coming up. in terms of episodes for Eternal Paradigm and also some new kind of exciting developments really. Before I go into this week's episode, I have to do the usual stuff guys. Just a quick reminder that you can find Eternal Paradigm on Instagram. It's a growing community on Instagram and I'll update there on what's happening with new episodes, when they're releasing. Generally, we have an episode out every Wednesday. So did you manage to catch up with last week's episode with Camilla? Or wasn't she just absolutely brilliant? I mean, every single guest who has joined me on Eternal Paradigm, and I say this all the time, has been absolutely incredible. What's even more interesting is the feedback that I get from you guys as you've listened to each episode. Thank you so much. And that's incredible. The fact that you feel that way, Mandy, the fact that listening to these people share their stories while you've been in a place of searching has helped you to understand that it's okay for everybody to go through different challenges in life. But ultimately, by connecting with the tribe in ways that helps nourish your soul, has allowed you to understand and open up different possibilities for you. So Maddy, thank you so much for sharing that email and for taking the time to send that to me. So a call out to you guys, if you have any feedback, please keep it coming. It's always, always incredible to hear what you think of the episodes. And also I've had some great people, great people have been recommending new guests to me as well. So I've had former guests who have introduced me to new guests who are going to be coming up. And I've also had listeners put me in touch with some guests who are going to be coming up. So I'm really excited to share all of those things with you. We have got a few more episodes to go before I do kind of roll things down in preparation for the next round of Eternal Paradigm. I'm really looking forward to that. So there have been lots of celebrations. You know well over 3,000 downloads. We have an active community of listeners and I am so eternally grateful to you. It's just absolutely phenomenal to think that I started the podcast off thinking that it would go absolutely nowhere and yet every single one of you who chooses to listen to every episode and every single guest who has who has showed up, showed up for themselves and showed up for the listeners and showed up for everything that they believe in has totally proved me wrong. And it's actually helped me see the value of doing this. So in addition to the value that podcast offers there are lots of things that are going to be changing now I do absolutely love putting together the episodes every week it does get quite challenging having a podcast is definitely not for the faint-hearted we've got some incredible guests coming up over the next few episodes as well I mean seriously I could honestly talk to so many of these people forever you because they're just so incredible in terms of what they do and in terms of what they offer, in terms of who they are. But I digress for the time being. So just a quick heads up, Eternal Paradigm Facebook group, we're at 30 members now. So I don't know if that was the same as last week, possibly. Come and join the group. It's a place where you can share your ideas. You know, if you have an event coming up, you're more than welcome to share that in the actual group because the group is quite receptive. What else have we got happening guys? Just to round up, not much really. This episode is actually very close to my heart and it's a very personal episode. If you have been listening to all of the episodes and for those of you who know me, you know that there have been challenges that have kind of sprung up in life. And for those of you who don't know me, I'm just like you. Things have happened, things haven't potentially have gone to plan, but actually I'm in a different place now. What this different place has allowed me to really, really do and see is to understand how incredibly amazing it is and how powerful we are as individuals once we uncover and unlearn and actually work on connecting with what really makes our own hearts sing. Everything else... does fall into place. It hasn't been an easy ride and it's still not. There are still very difficult days, very difficult moments, but I understand that the dark and the light now serves a purpose. One of the people that I am absolutely grateful to and for in this life of contrast and this life of seeking fulfilment is my husband. So we've been together for quite a few years now and he has been an absolute rock. He's truly incredible. He has been my teacher in so many ways and I have probably been, I don't want to say I've been a nagging wife because I don't think I have been, but there we go. But yeah, he's been an absolute superhero for me. Because he's shown me how incredible it is to be able to look at a person and to consistently and constantly and even in the darkness, even in the light, just to see their potential. And that is what has been truly phenomenal about kind of our relationship, because ultimately we are friends and we are companions before anything else. And, you know, above all of that, we're humans and we believe in connecting with the soul. This episode is a snapshot, really, of a conversation that I had with my husband, Rohit Ravel. And it came about because I really wanted to understand more about him. And it's really important because we go into all different types of relationships and we don't honestly and truly spend enough time really getting to know this person and what makes them, what's made them who they are today. And who is it that they are so desperately or wanting to be, that they are yearning to be? And that's what really prompted me to have this conversation with him. Last week, the episode with Camilla was also really, really significant because her work is with parents who have been conditioned to create an imbalance in their parenting relationship with their child. And when we then grow up and enter into relationships, We carry this imbalance on. Last week, I was at an incredible event for the RTT. So for those of you, again, who don't know, I am now officially a licensed RTT therapist and hypnotherapist. And last week when I was at this event at this Anxiety Forum, Marisa Peer, who is the founder and the teacher of RTT, in her thing, she was saying that when parents don't love their children, The child doesn't stop loving their parents. They actually stop loving themselves. That really kind of got me thinking about Camilla's episode. But also what came up from that is when a child is growing up, every parent has good intentions for their child. But it's the outside world that often causes incredible anxiety for the child growing up. But because they don't know any different. or they haven't really been taught another way, they carry a lot of that baggage into their life afterwards. And so for my husband's unlearning experience, equality and inequality has been such a big part of that. And the balance of like male and female energies has also been quite significant in his journey. So here, I'm really, really happy to bring to you a snapshot of our conversation today. And just to add that Eternal Paradigm is now going to be available on various different other platforms. So I don't know if you've heard of Audea, but it's great. It's like YouTube for audio. Because I haven't really ventured into having video for the podcast, the audio has been so well received and the video is going to be happening. But if you have a look and Google Audea, you will get access to another platform. So by the end of August, you will be able to hear more content from Eternal Paradigm. And it will actually be digestible episodes, which will become available to you. And the reason I say that this is a snapshot of our conversation is because there are snapshots of many conversations that are going to become available on different platforms. However, for the time being, I'm really, really pleased and excited to bring to you the love of my life, Rahit Ravel. When you say that inequality and feeling singled out based on the bullying, is that what made you realise that there's no such thing as a kind of a push and pull or a, not so much of a push and pull, but made you realise that it's not, whether it's a female or a male or anything, it's just purely the fact that when people make you feel singled out, that level of inequality that you feel is, it's unforgiving.

SPEAKER_00: 10:45

Totally. Because some people aren't as, I don't think I would say I was strong. I genuinely have Three-inch skin. I don't know how I put up with it, but some people can't and some people haven't. And so much talent, so much potential has been lost because people have been singled out. I mean, just take our neighbour Tony. Tony, he was our old neighbour in Croydon. Really nice guy. And he was bullied because he was gay in the 80s. He was a newly qualified lawyer in the city and got bullied into... mental depression, which ultimately stopped his life. So potential lost, you know, he could argue a good case. He does still do really good work, but he's taken a long time to get through that.

SPEAKER_01: 11:34

If we kind of bring it back to you again, in terms of inequality and feeling singled out, what else happened apart from being singled out because of your disability? skin colour, your background, the aspect of you that there is no choice about. What other things happened to you where you felt singled out or bullied or less equal?

SPEAKER_00: 12:00

There are hundreds, if not thousands of examples. So if I just give you a few, loving trampolining when I was young and I was actually quite good at it, but bullied out of there because I was brown, not being able to join the local football club. Because I was brown. My mum took me for the trials and the manager gave her a false phone number. And, you know, just silly things like that. It's 2021 now. You look back, you know, this was 86, 88, whatever it was. And you just laugh, you know, you just see the silliness of it. You know, getting a job, somehow getting a job on the market. Because I was a hard worker when I was young. I started working on the milk plants when I was 11, you know, waiting. to 4 o'clock in the morning at the milk yard to try and get a job for the day. A lot of the other kids were getting picked up. They were getting£10 a day, which was a lot back then. And I was just getting used. If I did get a milk round, they'd use me for the entire day, 12-hour day, and I'd get£5 if I was lucky, sometimes£3. It was a bit of a shock, but I just wanted to go out and earn. I wasn't too aware that they were taking full advantage. Obviously they were. And then after a while, nobody wanted to take me on. And it wasn't for the lack of not being there on time, not working hard, working on the market, which I loved. But it seemed like every other kid that was my age on the market wanted to trip me up. And they would do things like rack up bills on the calf, in the market calf, and say it was me. And at the end of the week... I can't remember the guy's name who I used to work for, but it was like a dried fruit stall. He said I racked up 12 quid's worth of hot cross buns and tea on the calf and just sat there. I didn't have enough chance to argue my case. And at the time I thought, oh, you know, they just did it because it must have been a mistake. But you go back, you think back, not too much, but you go back and you think, oh, gosh, that's what it was. Some of the examples that were going

SPEAKER_01: 14:08

through. You said that you haven't, spent too much time exploring and going back or spending time looking for those signs that were always there but when you do now look back you said you laugh which seems to be the most logical thing to do right just to laugh but what other feelings are there

SPEAKER_00: 14:30

I laugh because I probably would truth be told cry, but I'm not going to waste my energy on that. I laugh at the silliness of it. How can you hate a person? It is hate. How can you hate a person that much that you would want to, you know, just use and abuse? It's probably a strong word, I don't know if that can be used or not, but it was... how it's just totally alien that you can hate another person that much. And they've done nothing, you know, as far as I was concerned. I joined in. I was never trying. I was stuck out like a sore thumb. I did what everybody else did. Not because that's what I'm doing. I was a regular kid, you know, just in brown skin.

SPEAKER_01: 15:17

You said use and abuse, and then you followed up with, it's probably too strong to say that, but did it feel like abuse or... Does it feel like abuse now as you look back?

SPEAKER_00: 15:29

No, it's definitely abuse now. You look at it back then, you know. I remember working a full day, 12 hour day, four o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the afternoon and getting three quid. I can't remember his name now, but I remember the short, fat bloke with glasses and a flat cap. I did nothing wrong, you know. I'd done all the running. I'd deliver every single bottle of milk that morning for three quid. Even if it was night, you know, when all the other boys in the street were getting a tenner, how does that even compute?

SPEAKER_01: 15:58

And what was it like for you in a wider context? What was school like for you? Because everything you've talked about is kind of work related. You want it, you know, you're having a work ethic, you wanting to get out there to work. And also how, you know, you said your mum was given the wrong phone number. by the local football coach intentionally. What was school like and what did you then discover that changed or helped you focus on something?

SPEAKER_00: 16:28

This is not on your list of questions, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: 16:32

I'm allowed to add in extra questions.

SPEAKER_00: 16:36

Yeah, when we went for the football trials, I was so excited because one of the friends in my school said, you know, We all play for friends, community boys. Why don't you come up? And it was great. I went up there. I was so excited that I was getting into a team, possibly. But looking back at that specific example, I remember the coach just wasn't paying any attention. I remember my mum being quite angry. anxious and a bit annoyed but not trying to look annoyed at the time because he wasn't paying any attention to her I was trying to show my skills but I was just excited to be there you know and um he just reeled off some stupid phone number although mum didn't remember it I remembered it and it didn't work I asked can I ring the number and she I think she knew what was going on But probably didn't want me to dial the number, but I did dial the number quite a few times. I was like, you know, it's not working. And the next day, went into school, you know, what happens? You know, how come, you know, still blind and oblivious. And it was just fobbed off, like, you know, oh, you know, you're not good enough. I was like, this is just... I thought it was a club so we could train and become better, but it was all fobbed off after that. So like I said, that was a knockback of hundreds of knockbacks. That just didn't knock me down. It didn't knock me down. I don't know why it didn't knock me down. I don't know why it didn't deter me. I don't know why it didn't break me. If you go back to all of the examples of things like that, I just don't know why it hasn't knocked me back, but it didn't. So on to your next question, how was it at school? I can't really swear, can I? It was fucking awful. It was fucking awful. I hated it. I didn't mind primary school so much. We called it the infant school. Infants, yeah, infants was cool. I had a black teacher, Miss Carol. I still remember to this day Miss Carol. She told me I was brown. It's making me a bit emotional now, but it was in a sea of white. Miss Carol told me I was brown, and I was like, what the fuck? I couldn't understand. I was like, because I only thought I was pink. Because you draw your faces. Everybody's drawing their faces. And suddenly you're a little bit. I don't know why it was a shame. I suppose you pushed into feeling that you're not. So you just draw your picture. You're pink. And I was being naughty one day. And she was, I still remember today. She commented on my T-shirt, how nice it was. And I thought, fuck this kindness. Because every other teacher was a C-U-N-T. They were all bastards. But this woman was really nice. And she didn't last that long because I'm sure she felt like, the fuck am I doing now? She disappeared. You know, it was exciting times when she was around. Yeah, Infants was okay. Primary was okay. Secondary was just a fucking abysmal, full of... I mean, the first year was quite cool. Everybody was OK, you know, with friends and stuff. And second year, third year, fourth year, fifth year, forget it. It was just a joke. I was hardly ever there. Just because of the physical bullying, it was just... He was just relentless sometimes. What the hell? And it was because, and I wasn't the only brown kid in the school. There was another brown kid, and we were the only two, really. He never got bullied because I considered him to be a bit of a coconut. I know that's a bit of a shit word, but it is what he was. He really used to toe the line when it came to acting up. I wasn't that. I was just myself. And I think that's partly probably the case. I was always myself. I didn't really give a shit what other people think that much so he didn't get bullied so maybe because I did give back verbally I ended up having to take the physical punishment accordingly and after a while you one or two fights you can handle like if it's just one on one or one on two but these fuckers they were like you know they were always five six seven eight nine ten and it wouldn't stop just at the school it would carry on on the way home from school so you'd end up trying to find all sorts of genius ways to walk home So yeah, didn't learn much, but enjoyed the art.

SPEAKER_01: 20:57

In terms of the other person, the other brown coconut who was at school, I guess everyone's experiences of bullying and being singled out are different. And you said that you felt that yours was quite severe partly because you were yourself bullied. And that's a very, at that age, at that stage, to be clear that that is who you were, just being yourself, is quite a big thing. From here, definitely I'm interested in looking at the art aspect more. And I love the fact that you had a teacher who, you've mentioned her before several times when we've spoken, so I know how much this lady shifted something quite big, quite deep for you. There's a lot of stuff happening, and you know that we both talk about this as well, around epigenetics and about holding on to ancestral trauma. And for you and me to be, or anybody to be, holding on to these lived experiences in our lives, compounded with everything that's happened before us to our nearest families and our ancestral lines, is big. You know, it's deep. We live with it. It's in our cells, right? It's in our cell memory. So in terms of everything that you've been through and your realizations and your reflections in your experience, how are you at when it comes to now? Are you feeling any compassion? Are you feeling forgiveness? Are you feeling... able to to take these things head on and go to those dark places and deal with them reflect on them and really let them go to overcome that cycle

SPEAKER_00: 22:52

it's um i'm still digging yes there is there's a lot of forgiveness there because one of the biggest bullies that i had was a half jamaican kid his dad was jamaican his mom was white divorced but this boy thought he was not a person of colour, quite frankly, and gave me the hardest time. Yeah, that was crazy. But he obviously had a lot of hurt or something was going on in his life that made him act the way he did. Kids aren't born by being nasty or vicious. He learnt that from somewhere, but I don't know. Forgiveness is quite easy. It's just the effects of that digging down. You think... I think we all need to, to actually address the problem. But that's really, that's the hard part because a lot of that, I've just blocked it out. I've blocked it out because nobody really wants to dig it up. It's like, remember, I think it was about four or five years ago, they had a reunion at school, and I was like, what the fuck, serious? And Jamie, the kid that called you, the guy, well, he's a man, obviously, who called you, he was actually a really nice guy. He was one of the, don't get me wrong, I had a few friends at that school, and Jamie was a really nice guy. I just didn't have the, I couldn't bring myself to call him because of just what it would unearth. because there's still some people there that if I met today, words would be said, even though we were blokes in our mid-40s with kids and everything. It would kick off because they're just mongrels. They were absolute mongrels. I'm sure they're not now. I'm sure they're all overprotective of their kids and all the rest of it, watch Peppa Pig, whatnot. But yeah, it needs to be dug out and it needs to be addressed. Obviously, I'm working on that, but that's a toughie.

SPEAKER_01: 24:44

You mentioned art at school. Tell us more about that.

SPEAKER_00: 24:48

Art. Always loved art from early age. It was brilliant. Just loved doing art. First year, second year, Chinese teacher, Mr. Duncan. Brilliant. Really inspiring. Just a cool dude. I mean, he was strict and everything, but he was just a cool dude. He didn't have... A lot of these teachers do not have to do after-school activity. They do not get paid extra. He did it for the love, and people wanted to be in that class. It was amazing. Pottery, charcoal, all these things that you just wouldn't do in a normal art lesson. That sounds pretty standard now, but back then that wasn't the case. And there was other art teachers coming in and talking about arty things. And it was like another world, and I really wanted to be part of that world. But that's how the fuck I left in year two, and I was a bit perplexed. stuff about that but he fell in love with miss partridge the english teacher who was also very cool because everybody fancied her but um yeah they left went somewhere east london to do good so yeah that left a vacuum and mr plumbridge turned up and mr plumbridge was a bit of a prick because he was i mean the name mr plumbridge you couldn't make it up he was like a little drill sergeant and that doesn't work well with art so he was old school english art teacher and And he didn't kill my passion for art because that's impossible. But, you know, it went a bit dead because it was just, we didn't see eye to eye. I didn't like him. And although he was trying to set me up for A-level art, I did not want to do A-level art because I thought that was very towing the line, you know, for what it's to be in art is anything. So why should I just have to sit there and draw an apple? You know, it's boring. But yeah, he killed it. Well, numbed it until I got to college, obviously.

SPEAKER_01: 26:35

So how important after that experience has art and creating with different materials, how important has that been for you? And what have all of your experiences when it comes to art and creating taught you?

SPEAKER_00: 26:51

We'll start with the last question. What has it taught me? It has taught me, I didn't know this until we started thinking about it, but it's taught me when I'm alone, it's cool. When I'm sketching, when I'm drawing. When I was practicing art design or something, it's just, it's like a meditation in a way. You get zoned into whatever you're doing and it's just bliss. I didn't realize how much of a bliss it was when I think back, especially to my college days, when you were just art all day, every day, five days a week. It was amazing. Big smiles on faces, on my face. Working with all sorts of materials, wood, was working with wood, you know, furniture, obviously, one of my degrees, it's too hard to put into words. If anybody knows George Nakashima, I look him up. He's one of my inspirations, I suppose, when I did furniture. He's very much connected to the wood, to the trees. So, again, the circle of life and humans being in harmony with nature and respecting it. Yeah, it's taught me a lot. that creativity can be applied to anything. It's not just art. It can be applied to any business. Life, family, it can be applied to anything. You've got a little bit of art and creativity in you, then it goes a long way.

SPEAKER_01: 28:13

Now I am coming back to two things. Firstly, going back to that line of questions I started with, which was how do you connect with your female energy? Now, creativity... is considered to be part of the female force when it comes to that. I'm just putting that out there. So creative energy is a significant part for you, how you express in life. You also mentioned the whole connection with George Nakashima, wood and connecting to nature, which is how we really kind of should be living. It's human spirituality. Yeah. What is your take on a lot of the stuff that I keep going on about? You know, I'd be interested to know what your take is on human spirituality being ultimately connected to the earth and to a collective soul. Has that been something that's always been there, or is it something that's become more prominent recently?

SPEAKER_00: 29:22

It's definitely always been there, but in the background. It's more and more prevalent now, and you just begin to question more in life. You know, what are we here for? How come we're here? How come there's no end to the world? How is this even real? How is this, me and you, you were just sitting here. How is any of this real? know absolutely real it's almost a part of me thinks it's a dream this is all a dream nice dream a very good dream but um yeah it's just you know how we're connecting to our bodies now through meditation and vibrations is it's incredible and sometimes i know don't i don't obviously meditate as much as you do but uh there's times where i have done And it's been like a mad high where that vibration's touched. And it's just like, whoa. And it's only been, you know, for a few seconds, but it's sent me off. And a part of me is actually quite, I know it sounds really, I'm actually quite hesitant, scared with a small s. Yeah, hesitant. It's just that I don't want to end up like a monk. Because as much as that's cool, you know, you want to be a monk, it's cool. It just looks a bit boring to me. So, you know, I do want to dine out in fine restaurants, holiday, play on my motorbike. I'm sure monks can do that as well. But I just, you know, we've been... I have been fed and, you know, I'm a very busy, you know, I'm a very visual person. I just feel like I'm going to enjoy meditation so much that I'm just going to be like, no, I'm meditating now for the rest of my life. And part of that scares me because I think, well, I don't want to do that. I want to do other things as well. So it's maybe, I'm just working on it, you know, trying to not convince myself, but just say like, hey, Just stop being an idiot. Just get on with it. Because you know it's good. Just stop fucking dreaming and meditate.

SPEAKER_01: 31:17

I hope you enjoyed that. Thank you for joining me for this episode of Eternal Paradigm. Join me next time.