Exploring the Power of Three in the Gaming Universe: 3rd Anniversary Celebration

The magic number is three, as we explore the significance of threes in the gaming universe! Join us, your hosts Dr. Gameology, Jenny Lebron, and Gene Wong, as we mark our triumphant third anniversary with a vibrant discussion about our gaming journeys, the power of the number three in video games, and our top picks for the third installments in popular game series. From Janie’s passion for the board games Carcassonne and Dominion, to our shared experiences with Magic: The Gathering, we promise you a nostalgic trip down memory lane.

What does Magic: The Gathering have in common with early game-based gambling? Immerse yourself in our conversation as we navigate our way through this fascinating history. Then, buckle up for a thrilling debate on the best third games in popular series - Metroid and Super Mario 3. We can't wait to share our cherished memories and experiences with these classic games. To sweeten the pot, we've thrown in a lively discussion about creating character profiles in video games and the challenges that come with editing game footage. 

We round off this episode with a heartfelt thank you to our listeners for their ongoing support and feedback.  We've had an incredible journey so far, and we are excited about the road ahead. So, until next week, keep gaming! And remember, three is the magic number as we continue to explore the gaming world together!

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:14

Welcome to episode 115 of the Gaming Persona Podcast. This is the show that explores who we become when we play games. I'm your host, dr Gamology, from Twitch and grad school classrooms across the country, and I'm joined by two of my best friends from my gaming journey, janie LeBron and Jean Wong. So, friends, how are we doing this week?

Speaker 2 0:33

I'm doing fantastic and I'm excited to be here, yeah you're doing pretty great actually.

Speaker 1 0:39

Hey, jean, the last episode I edited, you had a much worse answer to that question than you did this week yeah.

Speaker 2 0:47

Progress.

Speaker 1 0:49

All right. Well, I'm glad to hear all of that Before we get started. Where can our listeners find us?

Speaker 2 0:57

You can find my photography page on Instagram at JayLeBronPhotography or JayLeBronPhotographycom, if you're curious about what nerdy person's photos look like.

Speaker 1 1:06

And I'm Dr Gamology on Twitch and all the other social apps I possibly could find and, of course, you can find me on this show every week.

Speaker 3 1:17

The Gaming Persona can be found on Apple Podcasts, spotify, google and most anywhere else podcasts can be found. If you're enjoying our content, be sure to leave a review on your favorite listening app.

Speaker 1 1:26

Yes, 5 Star Reviews. Let the world know how you feel about our show. And I was actually lucky enough to get to meet one of our listeners who's really into what we do over the past week and it really just impacted me how word of mouth and sharing our ideas with other people can make a difference. So please go and do that and if you do, let me know on socials and we'll definitely give you a shout out and acknowledge you on a future episode. So, jenny, what are we talking about from our world of video games today?

Speaker 2 2:08

Well, it is our third anniversary podcast episode, so we're going to be talking about just, I guess, that number three and the significance of it.

Speaker 1 2:23

The power of the number three. Well a couple episodes ago we broke out the dice and if you roll a three on one of those dice it's actually not very good. So sometimes three is not good, but tonight it is amazing, it's fantastic. It's wonderful, it's surprising. So I can't wait to do that conversation with all of you, and so let's start it off with the ordinary world so we can share everyday life through our games. Okay, so, jenny and Jean, we actually have had a little bit of a sort of sabbatical kind of of happenstance between episodes that have the three of us on it we switched to every other week, and then last episode we had implicit conversions on, and so that could have been a four person episode, but there were obstacles that evening, so it was still a three person episode and we missed. We missed you, jenny. So it's actually been a while since we've connected, so what. What have you been up to in your video game side of life?

Speaker 2 3:35

So video gaming haven't done much of duh, but I have been gaming. I played a couple new board games that I actually really liked. They weren't the too hard for me to understand and and get the hang of and we just played them once. And what? The first one we played and I'm gonna butcher the name of this, but is Carcassonne.

Speaker 1 4:03

Okay, I don't know?

Speaker 2 4:05

Yeah, do you either of you. Have you ever heard of that game?

Speaker 3 4:09

I've seen it in stores, but I've not played it.

Speaker 2 4:12

Yeah, so it's like a tile placement game. You kind of it's like you have to kind of like gain control of areas. So they're the one that we played had water, mountain and grass and you place tiles down until you complete an entire section of grass or water or mountains, and however many of your little meeples are on those tiles is how many points you get.

Speaker 1 4:50

Anyway, I'm not explaining it great, but is that like lines or dots, where you you connect the dots and then you put your initials in all the boxes you create?

Speaker 2 4:58

Similar, yes, yes, yes, very similar to that, to the ideas like that. That's the most basic form of this game, so you just called me basic.

Speaker 1 5:08

On our third episode.

Speaker 2 5:12

Oh, no, well, I got second place on that game and I lost my one point, but it was really fun and I enjoyed battling everyone and battling the meeples and then, yes, the meeples. Okay, then the other game that I played was called Dominion, which this one, I don't have as much of a grass have you. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun, it's a card game. It's a card game and you have to, like buy access to different cards that that help you to do things in the game. So, like there's different actions that you can take and each card that you draw has an effect on your particular turn. So you can buy certain things with your coins. You can buy cards with your coins, you can. Essentially, the point of the game is to have the most victory points, which are a little bit more expensive to buy. But it's like a deck builder game, so each turn you get more cards to put into your deck and you shuffle them in and then you draw on your next turn and you just keep going through your deck that way. And, yeah, that one was also very fun. A little bit more complicated for me to understand, but because I have a strong background in magic, it was. It wasn't too bad and that one I believe I won. Yeah, okay, I won that one.

Speaker 1 6:56

You just made me have a really weird thought. I'm just gonna share it. So, since you have such a strong background in magic and then you're playing these other games that rely on you to iterate on that, do you ever finish one of these new games and feel like you should have just played magic the whole?

Speaker 2 7:15

evening. No, because magic is. Those games are very involved. Like, depending on what kind of magic you're playing, those games are very involved and they take a long time, and Dominion was a pretty quick game for us. Okay, I think it only took us like 20 minutes or 30 minutes to play. Magic is a lot more involved. There's a lot more rules, it's a lot more strategic and complicated, so sometimes it's nice to play something quick and easy.

Speaker 1 7:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2 7:43

I have played magic quite a bit since the last episode I was on and have won pretty much all those games.

Speaker 1 7:49

So I'm sure you have, jenny, so I want to share an experience I had this past weekend. There have been times where I'm editing the show and the magic talk from you, and sometimes Jean is going and I have no idea if this content is good or if it's bad. And you know, one of the things that we've talked about is the minute total and how we have a target that we have to hit and, oh my gosh, I did not turn on the timer, so, wherever we're at. So one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about is you know, how do we hit that minute mark? And so I got to talk to Dr Neil Stafford in Arizona, who is one of our Patreon subscribers and one of our fans of the show, who reached out to me at the beginning of the year and invited me to come speak at his Psychological Association conference in just just over by Phoenix in Chandler, arizona. And so I was there this past weekend and my presentation was on the Gamer's Journey, my book, and how to use that to help clients pursue life changing goals with meaning and purpose. But we were eating dinner the night before my presentation and he brought up how funny our show is, which I'm just my usual sarcastic self. I don't know if anyone else in the world thinks I'm funny or you're funny or Jean's funny, or. And then he brought up how important some of the things you've said about magic are and I'm just like, really, because, I'm gonna be honest, I don't play magic and I can't tell what's going on during that part of the episode. He's like no, it's really important. Let me tell you about some of my cases. And then he laid out two or three different ways that he's used card games or, specifically, magic to help different kinds of kids open up and enjoy their therapy and learn something during the process. So I just want to say good job. Jenny for making me expand the way I look at even the concept of our show to where even I can learn things sometimes, and I think that that's one of the neat dynamics that we create is, you know, I'm here because of some of the things I do, but all of us, really the three of us really bring an interesting dynamic to the table that I think any mental health professional, parent or game player could listen to this conversation and think deeper about the way games impact their life.

Speaker 2 11:00

Agreed. Anytime, I'll talk about magic anytime.

Speaker 3 11:05

I know, then you might. You might not know how the context, but basically magic is for card games and board games, the equivalent of war to warcraft, so you're gonna hit a lot of people that are affected by it.

Speaker 1 11:19

Yeah, yeah well, word of warcraft is that starter game that Changed the way psychological studies were being done about video games, and you could say something like ever quest came before world of warcraft. But I read some of those 1990s research articles. They were calling it ever crack. They had an agenda. They wanted to make it seem like that video game was electronic heroin and that's ridiculous. So shame on you 1990s researchers. No, they, their heart was in the right place, but they didn't sit down and actually look at what playing the game was like and Made a lot of judgments that were based on uninformed opinions. And so World of Warcraft is one of those really important games for the History of researching video games from a psychological perspective.

Speaker 2 12:28

I'm sure magic is like gene said on that tier.

Speaker 3 12:34

Yeah, I mean I don't know of another game that basically I'm done gambling as early as that one did.

Speaker 1 12:42

Oh no, why would you say that?

Speaker 3 12:48

Like, besides, like coin operated arcade games, I'm not sure what, and pinball.

Speaker 1 12:54

I'm not sure what other early form of Game-based gambling there was until magic I'm not sure yeah even as a young child, though, I had Sports cards that had either baseball players or basketball players on them, and you would get those packs for different occasions or buy them from the gas station, and you would hope that you get a Michael Jordan card, but you very rarely ever did.

Speaker 2 13:22

That's collecting.

Speaker 1 13:23

That's not really a game Then why would you call magic gambling, but you call the sports cards collecting?

Speaker 2 13:31

it is also gambling. He was just saying it was the first introduction or not the first, but one of the first introductions to like game-based gambling.

Speaker 3 13:41

That wasn't like just straight up gambling like blackjack.

Speaker 1 13:45

Wait, so magic introduced game-based gambling.

Speaker 3 13:50

I believe it's one of the first.

Speaker 2 13:52

I'm sure yeah be sure, but what do you mean?

Speaker 1 13:55

What does that look like?

Speaker 3 13:59

The idea that you would have to just one there was actual tournaments around it and two, the the concept of you having to cycle through a million packs or you'd be competitive to terminate play.

Speaker 1 14:13

Yeah but what do you win by winning More cards or cash? And if you lose, you lose cards.

Speaker 3 14:22

In the early days. Yes, the early game formats. You would actually lose cards to players. They got rid of that at some point.

Speaker 2 14:32

Thankfully.

Speaker 1 14:33

I have a very sad story about Pokemon to you. Pokemon. Yes, that's my story, so this magic is older, but yeah, is it?

Speaker 3 14:42

and all all. Yeah, I also had Destroyed cards. There were parts of the game where, after you played his card, you must tear it up.

Speaker 1 14:54

Such a waste of money? Why do you listen to the card? Okay, well, jean, what have you been playing?

Speaker 3 15:02

Uh well, I've been dabbling in the new Resident Evil 4 DLC. I say dabbling, dabbling, well, in terms of the mercenaries mode, because I don't know if you know about unlocking Rpd Leon and how much time that consumes.

Speaker 1 15:20

I just played my first two matches of mercenaries ever last night on my stream.

Speaker 3 15:25

Okay, so there is a hidden costume. We're not hidden, it's. It's in the list of unlockables, but people have been trying to figure out how to get it for a while. It's Leon's rpd outfit, so like they've been asking why it doesn't Leon have an rpd outfit ever since the game came out, and so now they have. Now you can unlock it, but it requires getting s plus rank on every single stage or every single character Okay, so it's very time intensive.

Speaker 2 15:56

It sounds just up your alley, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 16:04

I don't feel like the way that game is that I need to push or grind to Accomplish anything, because I've beaten Resident Evil 4 so many times on all the difficulties in the old version and it's the same game, so I sort of feel like I'm done with it. I finished separate ways last night on my stream and so we got to see the story. I have a little bit. I'm testing my video editing skills because I'm trying to do a character profile for Ada Wong and what she represents as a video game character and what's her archetype and why are people interested in her as a character. So this is just Once I get that formula down and I have my editing Ability up to where I want it to be, I can make hundreds of videos like that for different characters and franchises. So Ada's just the test subject, because separate ways is what I was playing when I had this idea. So I'm not really great at editing game footage to line up with my work, game footage to line up with my words yet, but I've never tried to do it before. So that's one of the extra doctor game ology kind of things I'm working on. Um, is there anything else you're playing, gene?

Speaker 3 17:33

Uh well, continuing ballers, day three. We are very close to end of act one. Now, wow, we're doing literally everything.

Speaker 1 17:41

So two weeks and you're still on act one.

Speaker 3 17:44

Yeah, like to do literally everything in act. One is it's kind of a painstaking process. I mean I'm, there are certain things we just literally couldn't do because we've botched it. Um, mm-hmm, like, uh well, we found dead kid, so obviously we didn't save him in time. Whoops, oops, he has a pack of orphan, other orphan friends that you're supposed to like save them, and he goes back to them. It's a good time, but we let him die.

Speaker 1 18:12

My run through this game is going to be a catastrophe, because I don't even know what's going on, to even realize that I missed something.

Speaker 3 18:21

Well, the funny thing is we let him die by actually helping the orphans because the so we say we resolved the crisis so that the orphans can move on with life. But before we encounter the, um, the Imperald lost orphan, so he never got to go home to the other orphans, basically.

Speaker 1 18:43

Jenny. It sounds like jane is heartless, doesn't it?

Speaker 3 18:47

No, it's like. Well, I saved the rest of the orphan, so there.

Speaker 2 18:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:53

Well, okay, yeah, moral dilemmas are one of my favorite things in video games, but when you pair that with a confusing uh quest list To where the quests actually affect each other and you can't remember all the characters, then you get chaos and it kind of feels like the chaos of Some of the things I I encounter in jobs and work where it's like it's the. It's a challenge just to keep track of all the things that are going on with everybody's life. Um, you know, like tracking a hundred students and trying to make sure you remember what's stressing out all of them. There's a couple things I want to add that I've been working on. I have I submitted a chapter proposal for the psychology of the last of us and that got accepted, and I'm deep into working on my chapter for the witcher three. So, um, that's, that's exciting. I'm, I'm deep, I think I'm deep into the witcher three Wild hunt to try and actually finish the game this time, but I'm definitely deep enough to know that I am, uh, team yennefer as far as gerald is concerned, and, uh, I let tris sail away and not be a part of the story anymore.

Speaker 3 20:30

Um, so, no love triangle stuck on gwent for a hundred hours.

Speaker 1 20:35

No, I actually pass on gwent every time. I don't care. Uh, I'm getting. I'm getting heartless when it comes to declining in activity that game developers spent hundreds of hours creating for me.

Speaker 2 20:52

Sounds like me playing final fans u14 definitely, except I'm actually playing the game. Well, I said when I played yeah, All right.

Speaker 1 21:08

Well, I think that we should abandon the stages of our episode and just do the episode. Does that sound okay? Yeah so, jenny, third anniversary of our show, so that means 2020. Right, that was the first episode this time of year. Did you ever think that this episode was going this specifically, that this episode was going to happen?

Speaker 2 21:42

Absolutely not, for a lot of different reasons, not because I didn't think we could do it, but I would say, like the first year of this podcast it was, my doubts were because of imposter syndrome and just my nerves and anxiety surrounding speaking. Second year, I don't know. I probably could start to see it during the second year of the podcast, second anniversary episode. I was like, yeah, we got this. I definitely didn't see it coming that we'd have three hosts. That's like that was new. Since the last right, were you with us for our last anniversary.

Speaker 3 22:32

Yeah, he did DVD with us last year right, I joined only a couple months before the anniversary.

Speaker 2 22:39

Okay, well, yeah, I didn't see the evolution of the show to what it is now. I am just so proud of us.

Speaker 1 22:54

Yeah, we're at an episode count where when people hear about the show and ask about it and then I say we have 115 episodes, they're like, oh, you're a real podcast. We crossed this imaginary line where people question if this is actually a real thing we're doing or just a hobby or it's going to disappear in a month, and so now we're at the point where, even with our topics, I think we've covered a lot of my favorite franchises. There's still some that we could do episodes on, but it really is about timing and it's best, I think, to time those with those franchises having something relevant. So, for example, we haven't done a bio shock oriented episode because bio shock's not doing anything the last four years of our lives. So if it ever does, there will be a bio shock episode. So, yeah, I really love that we have the three person format and, from the technology side, I also have a window for if we ever had four people. So, who knows, fourth anniversary episode, let's clutter up the screen with talking people. And Jean being the person that entered with us right before the second anniversary, you just have done your first full year of the show. I mean, I'm not talking calendar month here, I'm talking like season wise one year of the show, yeah. So how is this living up to expectations?

Speaker 3 24:52

It seems, about what I expected, I guess. I mean in the sense that it was a combination of episodes where we just come out and gab and occasionally we are achieving having more and more famous guests, so to speak.

Speaker 1 25:12

Oh my gosh, Jenny, we had the person on last week that was in charge of porting Resident Evil Directors cut to the PSP. What yeah? And so cool that is the game I would play on my PSP whenever my drum students would miss their drum lessons. So before I was a counselor and I was just finding my love of Resident Evil, I was playing a version of the game that this guy programmed so that it would work on things that are not the PlayStation one. When he told me that I had like a quick, like 10 second out of body brain experience, so yeah, that was pretty cool, yeah, yeah and we're meeting people like Stanley from the ESA.

Speaker 3 26:12

That's someone with potentially millions of people that he is in contact with.

Speaker 1 26:21

Well, the ESA used to put on E3, which used to be one of the biggest industry events for showing off games in the technology related to games, and they've run into some problems the last few years getting that event to happen and there's some competition with other events that are happening right in that same space around that same time of year. So I don't know what's going on there, but the ESA continues to do all the background work. Just that conference was a very public facing thing for over a decade, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 3 26:59

Right, but yeah, it's cool seeing our gradual upwards trajectory. Yeah.

Speaker 1 27:10

I agree. I think that oh man behind me you can't see it because I'd have to angle the webcam up more but there's a series of badges and medals from different game related or fitness related activities that I've participated in, and conferences and fan conventions that I've spoken at my badge for the Arizona Psychological Association under job. Since they invited me, they didn't ask me what to put on my badge, they just did it for me. So at least that's how I remember it. Maybe I'm wrong, but they put for my job Dr Gamalogy slash, grand Canyon University and when I saw that I was just like I did it. I don't know, like, maybe that's like going overboard, but that's kind of how I feel about this podcast. Now is people across the world, the world, actually hear us talking about video games, and sometimes these are clinicians, psychologists and counselors. Sometimes it's parents with kids who play video games and we change their minds about whether their kids allowed to play or we gave them new ideas for how to have conversations with their kids, and those stories are starting to get back to me and I'm not going to lie, maybe after the first year I wasn't sure if it was making a difference, but I got to talk to Nick Yee on the show, and so it was okay. So let's keep going. But things like this past weekend at the psychological conference, I had a few people who listened to the show who came up and said Are you, dr Gamalogy? And I was like, yes, I am. And they talked about a couple of the episodes that they thought were really great that we did earlier in the year. And I don't know, I try so hard to keep doing new things and better things and constantly improving and sometimes I get in my own head that shadow self starts saying like that's not that much better. Are you sure you're getting better? Are you sure this is worth your time? But there's been so many signs the last month or two where, like absolutely the shows exceeded my expectations too. So thank you both of you for coming and doing the show consistently and just giving me and our audience this opportunity. I just so. Let's go to our next segment. All the sappy self patting ourselves on the back is over. Let's make this a debate. What is the best game series with a third game? Or was what game series has the best third game? We have to figure this out for our third anniversary show.

Speaker 3 30:35

Metroid. Every single game has been tried to chase Super Metroid in that whole series. Every, every day it comes out afterwards like this isn't as good as Super Metroid.

Speaker 1 30:49

Wait, but wasn't Super Metroid the second?

Speaker 3 30:53

one, oh no, it was the third. Metroid 2 came out on the Game Boy.

Speaker 1 30:58

Oh my gosh, that's cheap, jean. Nobody knows about Metroid 2.

Speaker 3 31:03

It literally has two and a title.

Speaker 2 31:07

It counts. Okay, I'll be the referee because I haven't played very many games and Super Metroid is literally a direct sequel to it, because it talks about how oh yeah, we went.

Speaker 3 31:17

The prologue of Spiel is like saying yeah, samid did go to that planet and did go capture a Metroid.

Speaker 1 31:25

Isn't that pretty relevant for the final boss of Metroid, super Metroid? Yes, because the capture baby is what causes you to that, right? If you don't do that Metroid 2 mission, then Samus has no way to triumph, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 31:44

Yes.

Speaker 1 31:44

I wrote about that in the gamers journey, jean, oh, my gosh Cross promotion. Okay, so your first nominee for franchise with the best third game is Metroid. Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 32:06

Mine is Super Mario 3. Okay.

Speaker 1 32:10

Yeah, yellow background hat with the tail. Yes, okay, see, jean, that's how it's done, that's solid, that's a solid.

Speaker 2 32:21

Although I will say I guess it's too. Is it Super Mario 2? Is it even called that? Isn't it called something else?

Speaker 1 32:30

Doki Doki Mario 2.

Speaker 3 32:33

Yeah, Super Mario 2 in America isn't technically a real game.

Speaker 1 32:37

It's not Mario game. They took a different game and put Mario characters in it.

Speaker 2 32:42

Gotcha. Well, that game no one likes, but I actually remember playing that game a lot.

Speaker 1 32:50

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 32:51

And like a lot. Yeah, it was really fun it was a fun game. Yeah, it was very weird and I played it not recently, probably within the last 10 years and remembered so much that I'd like you know like sometimes when you pulled out a little turn up, it would be like a potion or whatever.

Speaker 1 33:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:14

And I remembered where they were and I was like I haven't played this since. I was like five, that's how long?

Speaker 3 33:18

term memory is yeah.

Speaker 1 33:23

I've only even seen the ending of that game once, apparently Mario's dreaming the whole time.

Speaker 2 33:30

Yeah, oh yeah, that makes even worse.

Speaker 1 33:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:35

Oh no.

Speaker 1 33:36

It's a dream bit. It's not even canon.

Speaker 2 33:39

No, but yeah, three was amazing that Super Mario 3 is such a cool game. Yeah, it's that one. I also remember playing an insane amount.

Speaker 1 33:51

Well, since both of you went into your early childhood lives, I'm going to keep that going and I'm going to say Mortal Kombat and I'm even going to say actual Mortal Kombat 3. Not even it doesn't have to be ultimate, but it can if it needs to be, because I remember the first time that I held the buttons down and Cyber Smoke came out and did his salute in front of the logo and then you could play as Smoke and if you didn't do that, you could see Smoke and there was a little shutter that would go over him and you couldn't select him, oh yeah. And then he can blow up the world with one of his fatalities. And, by the way, mortal Kombat 1 has come out since the last time all three of us were on an episode and Cyrax can do that same fatality now.

Speaker 2 34:51

Wait, mortal Kombat, what One you said one.

Speaker 1 34:54

Yes, it's yes.

Speaker 2 34:56

Remastered or something.

Speaker 1 34:57

No, no, no, it is actually the 12th game, but it is called Mortal Kombat 1 because Liu Kang is an elder God and he creates an alternate reality where everybody is in a state where they can live and fight without destroying reality. Except Shang Tsung learns that his destiny is greater than the stupid peddler that Liu Kang makes him be in this timeline. So he still becomes an evil sorcerer and causes all kinds of problems and Mortal Kombat happens anyway.

Speaker 3 35:34

Ah, he's a real hero's journey of this iteration.

Speaker 1 35:38

Well, yeah, it's. So let's talk about this. Do you remember Mortal Kombat, deadly alliance, jean, somewhat? Yeah, it was an interesting game. The opening credits they snap Liu Kang's neck and the final bosses are Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, so they team together to become the new bad guy after the deaths of Shinok and Shao Kahn. Well, in this game, mortal Kombat has been doing some interesting things the last 10 years. Mortal Kombat 9 was a redo of the story from 1, 2, and 3. And then Mortal Kombat 10 was a redo of the story from 4, because Shinok is the final boss. And then Mortal Kombat 11 was its own story. They had Kronika and it was a timeline kind of story. And then they disrupted the timeline by killing her, and Liu Kang had to become an elder god to stabilize time. And so that's why Mortal Kombat 1 is back to what seems like the beginning again, but it's not. It's actually a redo of deadly alliance, which is Mortal Kombat 5. So that right there, that right there could basically be its own YouTube video. Doctor Gameology explains what Mortal Kombat is. But Mortal Kombat 1, 2, and 3 is perfect, and Mortal Kombat 3 is my first nominee for franchise with the best third game. So let's do another round, Gene or Jenny. Let's throw another one out there.

Speaker 3 37:30

Oh, franchise, another franchise, the best third game. Yeah, let's see, let's see.

Speaker 1 37:42

I stumped him. I stumped him Jenny.

Speaker 3 37:46

I'm debating of whether or not. Well see, the issue is, I was about to say don't make cry three, but don't make cry five is definitively a better game. So that didn't work.

Speaker 1 38:00

OK, wait, but if you look at games that have amazing third games, is Devil May Cry still in there in your opinion?

Speaker 3 38:08

Yes, because that. So they'll make right, it's in a sub, so there was a subset of this topic I was thinking about, where when there are various franchises where the third title is what made that series like hit, legendary status and that may cry three would be that for this series, but, yeah, other ones like that, like Zelda, link to the past. You know, basically, if it wasn't for link to the past, that franchise might be gagged because no one like Zelda 2.

Speaker 1 38:42

And then we have different tiers, not of the kingdom.

Speaker 3 38:46

Right, yeah. So yeah, there are certain games that were like that might cry three. Again similar situation. Everyone had that may cry two, three made a legendary.

Speaker 1 38:56

Yeah right, it's not even worth remembering, it's no, it was stupid. It doesn't factor into anything.

Speaker 3 39:05

It wasn't even like a bad day may cry game. It was a bad game period. Like the game performed not well.

Speaker 1 39:13

So, jenny, I'm going to, I'm going to bring you up to speed on Devil May Cry.

Speaker 3 39:18

OK.

Speaker 1 39:18

OK, so you play as a demon hunter named Dante named after Dante from the Divine Comedy or Dante's Inferno and he is the son of Sparta, which is an ancient demon, and so there's daddy issues. In Devil May Cry one, you guys stop dad. But this is where it gets really good. He has a twin brother that has a different. He has a samurai sword instead of a big like giant broadsword and he wears a blue trench coat instead of red, but otherwise they look pretty much the same, and his name is Virgil, who is the character that guides Dante through the underworld in Dante's Inferno. So Devil May Cry is both amazing to play as a video game because it's a combo button masher with melee and projectiles via guns or other pretty cool weapons, and it also has a lot of mythology and demonology kinds of stuff in it. So for someone like me who's saying video games are the modern mythology, devil May Cry is a smorgasbord of important ideas, and Devil May Cry 3 is the game where Dante really gets to go after Virgil for the first time, and lots of, lots of good. It wasn't Lady introduced in Devil May Cry 3 also.

Speaker 3 40:52

Yes.

Speaker 1 40:52

Yeah, really good story, but it's on the PS2 originally, so even when they update it to modern times, it still kind of looks like a PS2 game to me. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 41:08

And oh, yeah, we already talked about earlier but the Witcher 3, like people liked Witcher 1 and 2, but it was not a you know billion, mega, millions, multi-dollar franchise until the Witcher 3. So yeah, I was thinking about games where the third game elevated to mainstay legendary status.

Speaker 1 41:31

Yeah, I had. Oh man, should I tell this story on the episode? Okay, I'm just going to tell the story because I didn't do anything wrong. I was on the airplane playing the Witcher because I need to finish it so that I can make sure my chapter is exactly where I want it to be. And so I'm doing this mission and I'm trying to take this plague out of this tiny deformed monster man, and so we do that whole mission in the hold, and then Yennefer is like that was tiring, let's go have sex. And I'm on the plane, so I have a window seat, luckily, but and you know, headphones so people can't tell what's going on on the Steam Deck. But I just felt weird because I didn't do anything to initiate this and some fun stuff is happening on the Steam Deck screen.

Speaker 2 42:34

I always have that same feeling. If I'm watching like a downloaded Netflix show or something, I'm like, hmm, put a test to my test. This is weird, I'm not watching what you think I'm watching.

Speaker 1 42:49

So yeah, video games have all the content now, not just, not just the gamey content.

Speaker 3 42:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:58

So, but that being said, baldur's Gate just destroys the Witcher on that front. Oh my gosh, I've not played Baldur's Gate at all since the last time we had an episode because I've been too busy with life and other goals. I'm not writing a chapter on the psychology of Baldur's Gate, so therefore that game can wait. But it's such a fun game to play I want to play more. So you nominated the Witcher, jenny. Do you have another nominee for?

Speaker 2 43:35

I really don't. I have a nominee for something we talked about before the show started, for one that I don't think the third iteration is the best one.

Speaker 1 43:48

Oh, share that. Spill the tea, Jenny.

Speaker 2 43:51

Mario Kart 64 is the best, the best Mario Kart there ever was.

Speaker 1 44:01

No, no, we were talking about this. Double Dash on the GameCube is the third iteration and it is far superior to then 64.

Speaker 2 44:12

You disagree wholeheartedly.

Speaker 1 44:14

Oh no.

Speaker 3 44:15

But isn't that OK, but the third game, I believe a super circuit, which was not.

Speaker 2 44:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1 44:24

That was a Game Boy Advance game right.

Speaker 2 44:26

I don't remember actually. Yeah, it was Game Boy Advance. No one who had Game Boy Advance?

Speaker 1 44:32

I didn't I did. I did.

Speaker 3 44:35

That was a good system it had.

Speaker 1 44:38

it had the SP version, so it flipped like a clamshell, like a phone.

Speaker 2 44:44

Oh OK, yes, yes, yes, never mind, I did have that.

Speaker 1 44:46

It had a rechargeable battery, which was like life changing for me, because I used to have to mow lawns and spend that money on double A batteries.

Speaker 2 44:56

I actually think I still have a Game Boy Advance somewhere.

Speaker 1 45:01

Oh full circle or two. Two had a Game Boy Advance and it's like, oh, I have one in my drawer right here.

Speaker 2 45:07

I was thinking of something else, oh no.

Speaker 1 45:12

OK, well, I mean. Thank you, jenny, for sharing your incredibly wrong opinion about Mario Kart.

Speaker 2 45:20

Welcome for being right.

Speaker 1 45:22

Do you like the current Mario Kart, the Mario Kart 8 deluxe?

Speaker 2 45:30

I don't know, I haven't played it. The last Mario Kart I played was Mario Kart 8, I think, and I hate it On the Wii U.

Speaker 1 45:38

Yes, you played that with me.

Speaker 3 45:40

Yeah, it's just in game, just continued.

Speaker 1 45:44

Yeah, they actually keep adding tracks to it. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 45:49

Yeah, it's not my favorite, Not a fan Mario Kart. They need to stay in Go Karts. We don't need to be flying around the universe.

Speaker 1 45:59

That's what Rainbow Road always has been anyway.

Speaker 3 46:03

Now they're going to add flying. I want them to give me an actual flying racing game. There's not enough of those.

Speaker 2 46:08

That's true.

Speaker 1 46:10

Hmm, yeah, so you want a Z axis.

Speaker 3 46:14

Yeah, like I feel like everyone loves the F zero series, but it's like you could just make those in the spaceships.

Speaker 1 46:24

OK, wow, I I'm trying to think what. What games do I think are the best third game besides? I mean, devil May Cry would have been in there for me. I like Resident Evil three Nemesis a lot. I do think Resident Evil one is the strongest of the first three games, though, but I think Nemesis when it first came out or when I was playing it first. Just the idea of running from Nemesis the entire game or trying to blow them up to upgrade your weapons, it was just such a cool video game.

Speaker 3 47:09

Yeah, Nemesis had an interesting factor for me that is lost with more modern games. Even the remake of Nemesis is that is the sheer Rulety at which the developers would inflict Nemesis upon you Like yeah, just having pop up in the police department with your back to the wall and yeah. You have a few seconds not to die Right? I mean, that was still the gay days of fixed camera angle so you could come out of the door and literally not see him throw a punch at you.

Speaker 1 47:46

You would get hurt, but that's kind of a technology thing. To Mr X in the Resident Evil, two remake had the constant roaming the police station until you trigger certain events.

Speaker 3 48:02

Yeah, but even new Mr X was not as cruel as original Nemesis. Original Nemesis had situations where you're in a two foot hallway and an undodged rocket would fly down the hallway.

Speaker 1 48:13

Yeah, that's true, and the remake for Nemesis. He was much more staged, yeah, but when I was trying to beat all the difficulties of that game, I had a lot of fun taking him on in fights and trying to figure out how to kill him in each situation, so I don't think they did a bad job. I think also the Internet is a culprit here that there was a lot more having to figure it out on your own in the late 90s and early 2000s. And yeah, now I feel like the solutions are all on the Internet, so you just look them up and get guided through games, or you don't need to do that, because the solutions are a lot more obvious, because the games are designed so that you you notice the answer before the questions asked.

Speaker 3 49:10

Sure, it also helps that Carlos doesn't blow anymore. Oh, he was a punishment to play, as in the original game.

Speaker 1 49:22

I'm going to bring up my own opinion, and you know what? I've read so many things on the Internet where people did not like this game, but BioShock Infinite is actually my favorite BioShock, and that's the third one.

Speaker 3 49:37

I don't, I wouldn't put it on my top. I still put the original BioShock at my top. Well, because it's amazing too, Well, yeah, but also because I, to me, as a player, I really enjoy survival aspects. The idea that you have to scavenge and craft your own guns and stuff is a thing that I felt sad was gone from Infinite.

Speaker 1 50:00

Yeah, Infinite, you do have to get everything you need there. You can't really miss anything.

Speaker 3 50:07

Yeah, but like the idea was like oh yeah, if I can stab this dude in the neck and take away three of his screws, then I can have more bullets for an X guy. That's that fits into my, like you know, Resident Evil save every bullet mentality.

Speaker 1 50:25

Also, this is a game that is completely outside of my field of vision, but don't a lot of people hold highly in regard Grand Theft Auto 3?

Speaker 3 50:39

Yes, because isn't that the one?

Speaker 1 50:40

that had San Andreas and Vice City kind of. No no, those are games afterwards.

Speaker 3 50:47

Those are separate games.

Speaker 1 50:48

But can't you buy GTA 3 with those two packaged in Like it's all, it's all like a similar period in gaming history? I believe you might be right.

Speaker 3 50:58

Yeah, but yeah, three was the first one to have a real like well developed game. The first two games they're really, they're really kind of top down right, like yeah, they're top down and it's more in the sheer chaos factor. But you could like like I remember playing Grand Theft Auto 1 at one point and it's like you can just die in like three seconds, like because you cross the street wrong and you got hit by a car, like that sounds like life.

Speaker 1 51:34

Okay, well, are there any other game franchises that we really want to mention? I mean Persona 3. Is Persona 4 and 5 that much better.

Speaker 3 51:48

I think. Yeah, I thought about 3, but the issue of the Persona series is that, even though Persona 3 has the title of 3, technically its franchise is like 20 games before it.

Speaker 1 52:01

Okay, sure, if you want to do that, that's fine. Then what if we did Final Fantasy XIII 3, lightning Returns? Oh, okay, I don't know.

Speaker 3 52:17

I have mixed feelings about that.

Speaker 1 52:18

Final Fantasy VI is actually Final Fantasy III in the United States.

Speaker 3 52:26

Yes, which is ludicrous.

Speaker 1 52:28

A lot of people think VI is the best Final Fantasy. I do not I think so. Yeah, I don't either. I think VII is.

Speaker 3 52:37

so we'll just do that Even among the classic Final Fantasy. I consider IV or II for Americans to be better than VI.

Speaker 1 52:47

Yeah, but not II for Japan. That one is awful. Get hurt to have better endurance. Yes, oh, no, yeah, in that game you can make any character, whatever you want, but the catch is you have to have them practice the thing in order for them to be able to do it. In order to have better endurance, you have to have them get damaged on purpose.

Speaker 3 53:13

Yeah, and Raider MP, you're just casting spells repeatedly for sake of casting, very hard game to play and enjoy.

Speaker 1 53:26

Okay, I can't think of any others off the top of my head, but what's going to happen is when we end the episode, they're going to flood my brain and I'm going to be filled with regret, yep. So I hope everyone enjoyed our rundown of threes in video games. So after we put this episode up live, I'm going to start numbering our episodes, with season four in the front Right now. I'm currently about three episodes behind where we're at, so people who are doing the podcast feed are not going to hear this episode, probably until November, but that's okay.

Speaker 3 54:16

Yeah, I remember one infamous one.

Speaker 1 54:19

Yes.

Speaker 3 54:20

Dead Space Three killed the franchise.

Speaker 1 54:23

Oh, that's bad. That's really bad, especially in 2023, the remake for that came out and it was so good. Yes, All right. Well, hopefully when they remake Dead Space Three, they revive the franchise and we want more. Yes, okay. Well, we're at the final part of our episode tonight, so is there anything we hope we can line up and do in season four?

Speaker 2 55:06

That's tough. How would we even do?

Speaker 1 55:09

a live podcast episode, since Gene left us for the northeast. No, you'd have to travel, gene.

Speaker 2 55:19

That would be cool like a gaming persona reunion.

Speaker 3 55:25

You guys could show up early. The packs.

Speaker 1 55:29

Well, no, I mean live episode. Like we have a panel at PAX that is a live episode. Oh, that would work too. Yeah, yeah. I think, that's completely doable. The New York City Arcade Expo.

Speaker 2 55:45

No, no, when I know what it is.

Speaker 1 55:48

I think it's in the spring usually. Okay.

Speaker 3 55:53

Yeah, it's like Season four goal yeah.

Speaker 1 55:58

Why not? That sounds fun.

Speaker 2 56:00

I actually will be on your side of the world, Gene, in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 56:06

Oh.

Speaker 2 56:06

Flying into Boston.

Speaker 3 56:08

Cool Doing anything good or just work.

Speaker 2 56:11

Work.

Speaker 3 56:13

Still good.

Speaker 1 56:15

I don't know If all of you keep talking about tabletop stuff and Magic, the Gathering and things, and I keep learning more about D&D. Maybe we should try to do a panel at PAX Unplugged.

Speaker 2 56:30

I am fond of board games.

Speaker 1 56:33

It's in Philadelphia, usually in December.

Speaker 3 56:37

Yeah Cool.

Appreciation and Farewell to Listeners

Speaker 1 56:40

I don't know. We don't need to talk about this on the episode, because then, if it doesn't happen, it looks like we didn't care. All right, well, I want to also include the episode for our listeners. Thank you so much for coming back week in and week out, downloading the show, sending us messages and letting us know what you thought was fun, what you thought was not very fun at all, and what we're doing to help you see video games and other games in a positive and insightful way. That's why we do it. So thank you for being there and I hope you continue to enjoy the show. If these conversations sound fun to you and you're looking for some great people to play online games with, check out aie at aie-gildorg. And I have one last quest for everyone to collect for the day Enjoy all of your quests in threes and continue the journey.

Speaker 2 57:39

See you next week. Bye-bye.

Speaker 1 57:49

Now I'm going to be thinking about how many things I can do in three this week Good or very strange.