The Gaming Persona

Elden Ring Tears: The Thrill of Defeat and Victory

• Daniel Kaufmann Ph.D. | Dr. Gameology • Season 5 • Episode 6

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Engaging in the emotional and psychological depths of gaming, this episode reflects on how titles like "Elden Ring" can transform our approach to resilience and personal growth. We share insights on the game's unique mechanics, character choices, and captivating quests that resonate deeply with players.

• Exploring personal growth through the challenges of gaming 
• The psychological connection between struggle and gameplay 
• Analyzing character classes and their significance in player identity 
• The emotional attachment to NPCs and their quests 
• Understanding the lessons gained from failure in gameplay 
• Discussing the therapeutic potential of engaging with “Elden Ring”

You are all Maidenless. Continue the journey, thank you.


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Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast. This is the show that explores who we become when we play games, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just vibing in cozy indie worlds. Join me, dr Gamology and my good friend Marcus as we search for all the ways gaming and personal growth collide. Grab your controllers and let's continue the journey Now.

Speaker 2:

How good is the new intro, Like how really good is it? You know, when something is good and then there's great. Actually, have you ever seen the movie Miracle?

Speaker 1:

Like the hockey movie.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

No, but I do know that we kicked their ass and we won that game.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's just like what hopefully we're going to do to Canada tonight. But no, but back to the intro. It's what you outdid yourself. It's good, I like it. I like it, but I got to circle back.

Speaker 2:

So this week I just a little I Marcus fighting moment. Okay, so I was on the ice and I was playing and I was fighting for the puck in the corner. Okay, this is real, this isn't NHL 25. This is me on the ice. So a guy comes in, he's trying to get the puck and I'm digging, I'm like hiding it inside my skates and because I'm waiting for a player to come over so I can kick the puck out, so the second player comes over and he starts fucking jamming me into the wall and I'm like, all right, this is a non-checking league, I'm not going to be that guy. He gave me a cross check and it hurt Like he railed my back. I came up and elbowed him in this cage of his mask. He did a flying. Remember in Mortal Kombat I'm circling back Remember, when you uppercutted the guy into the pit in their arms?

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Okay, he did that onto the ice and I took the penalty. It was fine, like it's okay, but my point is I had my own real life fatality this week.

Speaker 1:

Hans Gruber at the end of Die Hard oh.

Speaker 2:

I just had to share it. That's my sidebar of the day.

Speaker 3:

That's so good.

Speaker 1:

And now we got to check the box for mature content on our podcast.

Speaker 2:

What do you mean? New ground? I think I swear more than most humans alive you have not sworn in the last five episodes.

Speaker 1:

Marcus, you might've said shit one time, but is that really a swear? No Cause. I remember as a child when South park got permission to use that word on television and they did it like 200 times yeah, I do remember that episode yeah, although it's funny when you're watching wwe. Now they can't. They just mute entire segments of nxt because the Orlando crowd that's apparently our only vocabulary word.

Speaker 2:

I thought it's they have to when they do the holy shit chant like they actually do. It's like in the contract that they have to mute it. It's crazy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because we can't have people who watch CW or USA being aware that word exists.

Speaker 2:

Tonight is a special night because we're going to get into Elden Ring and I'm just going to preference this that I'm a failure. Yeah, you're showing up the book you wrote the final chapter in and I have not beaten it, but I have a lot to say about it. And I have a lot to say about Night Rain, the network test. I'm going to let you tell us a little bit about From Software, because I think they're the most masochistic people that have ever created a video game.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I actually have a mental health angle here. It goes all the way back to the foundation of psychology with sigmund freud and carl young so should I do the rewind? Yes, it's 1908 and sigmund freud is making us believe everything we do psychologically is because of our sexual urges, related to our upbringing and relationship with our mother. And but it's early 1900s. I promise it's not super gross, it's just regular gross. This is where psychology started everyone, and I wish I was joking, but my sarcasm is actually founded in a lot of truth here.

Speaker 2:

Sarcasm is at an all-time high right now.

Speaker 1:

Yes, absolutely so. I just want to say, as a professor, I teach counseling theories a lot. It's the course that I teach the second most now, but the first five years of my teaching career I by far taught this class more than any other class. Okay, and during that time I grew a real love and passion for understanding why we talk in therapy with certain keywords and phrases and how we build a person towards growth, but using our theories. So the theory is a set of ideas and philosophies that help us to make sense of a situation, ideas and philosophies that help us to make sense of a situation. It creates our understanding of why things are a problem and it creates a pathway for understanding how to resolve that issue and move forward. The better for it.

Speaker 1:

And a lot of negativity comes up in modern times towards those early psychological theories because they were the beginning right. So think about A New Hope in Star Wars, marcus. It's a classic, it is a wonderful movie, it is perfect as far as what could be done in 1977. But George Lucas needed to fix it in 1997, and then he needed to fix it again in 2004. And then we keep getting tweaks, and now grito shoots first and says some funky phrase at the beginning mcgruber or something I don't remember what he says now yeah.

Speaker 1:

So my point is that, just like those early psychological theories and just like star wars, episode 4 and new hope, which originally was just Star Wars we take something that was usable in the past and was viewed as really helpful, cutting edge and well thought, and then we have to adapt it to modernity. Right, we have to make it work right now. And those early psychological theories were actually not just about being efficient in life, not just about pushing down our negative thoughts and twisting them into positive. Just think positive, like toxic positivity, a lot of basic psychological approaches. Now they prioritize efficiency over enduring the struggle and if there is a struggle, we bypass it instead of helping people dive into it and overcome it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and from software games are like those early 1900 psychological theories where they're saying here's a struggle, are you gonna do it? Are you gonna be a whiny little bitch and quit this game too? And I think that a lot of people in my YouTube comments, for example and pardon the swearing and harsh words, I know it's a little different than normal, but I really have a passionate perspective on why Elden Ring games matter and I think that is the edge that I feel when I'm talking about it.

Speaker 2:

And I'm just going to preference this doc. It and I'm just gonna preference this doc. So all you doc is on a whole new level of energy. So he's bringing the swears, he's bringing the anger and he's bringing it all to us today yeah, I think that.

Speaker 1:

Remember, I'm a counselor too. I do psychotherapy with people, I train other counselors. I get to hear about all their cases and there are a lot of people in this world where they got to get the fight in them. It's not just about running from our problems, it's about believing in ourself that if I go into that room I can take this problem on and it might hurt a few times, a few hundred times, I might have to walk away feeling unsuccessful a lot, but I am not going to stop. That's right. Right. Like I think from software, games are about playing a game with the vision that I'm going to happen to this game, not this game is going to happen to me.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And I really wish, in a way, that I could get in a time machine and see what it would be like to actually practice psychology before cognitive behavioral therapy became a thing and made it all about redirecting your thoughts. Focus on the positive. Do not acknowledge the negative right. The negative is sometimes very true. You're not good enough to win this fight. You can't handle the smoke, but you know what. You can learn the mechanics. You can fail 100 more times and 75 of those times you can get a little closer. I might have to try 10 more times. I might have to try 100 more times. I might have to try 100 more times, but I know I can win this fight and once you have that belief, you're gonna get it I don't disagree.

Speaker 2:

It was a great. That's a great way to look at it. I for me, it's like. What I love about it is you can explore the game. But for the most part, when I get stuck in a spot and I shut off the game, it almost deters me from playing it because I know I'm going to turn it on and instantly be stressed out. But I just need to overcome that. And the other thing I really want to do is I want to play it on my couch in front of the big tv and I want to see if that's a difference of me doing that versus sitting right here in front of my computer.

Speaker 2:

You, know what I mean and so I I need to try that, because I feel like I would be in a better mental state if I'm sitting on the couch dying, versus sitting in my office, like right in front of the TV, I mean my computer monitor.

Speaker 1:

The real trick is realizing every day we live, we're closer to dying. Marcus.

Speaker 2:

So that's why I love it, but that's why I love my life every day.

Speaker 1:

That's why I love it, but that's why I love my life every day.

Speaker 1:

I am so different than you because I originally was playing Elden Ring on my PS5 and it was really hard to stay motivated and to be able to keep doing it that way, especially because it's an open world game and there's so much to figure out and keep track of.

Speaker 1:

Right, the map is easy to get lost, it's easy to not know where you're supposed to go, right, and I really benefited from switching to playing on my computer. I bought the game on Steam so I could play on my PC and then I can have the interactive map from what's it called Fextra Life. Yeah, on my right monitor I can click the checkboxes for what kinds of things I want to see on the map and I can also look up where's this item that I need, what is the closest site of grace that I can find in this spot, so that I don't have to run back through this terrible area every time I die. It's like being able to organize all the information but also play the game and have those two screen effect or three screen. I have three screens and I really use that for work and everything, and so I just switched elden ring to a game that I need to take that seriously and that helped a lot yeah, I can see it that way.

Speaker 2:

and circling back to from software, they create games to create stress, but also pure joy. I am a masochist in the sense of I don't mind beating my head on a boss forever For that one time you beat the boss. That feeling I can date this back to when I was playing Star Wars, the Old Republic, and I beat the tanks in explosive conflict on Nightmare and we finally did it after months of trying. I legit screamed at the top of my lungs in happiness. Same thing when I beat oh, what's the name of the boss in Elden ring. Oh, my god, that I kept down radon no, radon was easy mog.

Speaker 2:

I haven't gotten that far um oh, my god, there was a boss. Oh, it's actually sad. The tree avatar thing in lindell. I struggled with that. It was not even a boss, it's just like an enemy. But I struggled on that thing for so long and then one day I turned it on because I hadn't played it in three weeks. I turned it on, beat it first, try.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sometimes you're just thinking too much. Yeah, yeah, sometimes you're just thinking too much, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So have you played any of the other FromSoft games? Yeah, when.

Speaker 1:

I was a master's student. That's when Demon's Souls came out on PS3. And my friend Gene everyone knows Gene because he got to co-host with me for 50 episodes he told me about this game months before it came out, really talked it up, talked about what it was looking like, it was going to be, and I bought it just because of our friendship, not at all understanding what this game was going to do. And I loved it because back then I don't know if anyone knows this about me because I do play games on easy. Now I like to do all the difficulties and build myself up to the hardest ones, and if a game super matters to me, I will do the hardest difficulty. But back then I did the hardest difficulty for every game I owned, no question. And so when I got Demon's Souls it does not have a difficulty, it's just Demon's Souls and then it was harder than probably anything I had ever played up to that point and I didn't quit.

Speaker 1:

I just pushed my mindset into I'm going to grind this character and I'm going to build up a fighting style that suits my strengths, which is ranged and magic, and then figuring out what enemies that I can attack from behind and just rip their soul out from behind. There was like a move that would multiply the souls that you would get if you could sneak up on certain enemies during dark alignment, and so I would. Just, I would sit on the couch with my laptop doing my grad school assignments and just running those paths, getting all these souls, and then, when I would have hundreds of thousands of souls, you cash them in to level up, and I did eventually beat Demon's Souls two times. I never did get a win on the third playthrough, and then my PS3 had a corruption on my save file and the hard drive died, and so when I got a new PS3, it was before PS Plus, so I had no save file for Demon's Souls.

Speaker 1:

There you go, ps5, demon's Souls. Have you played that one yet? Not yet. Oh, it's so hard. It's much harder than Elden Ring. It is. I really feel like it is. I'm so bad at Demon's Souls compared to Elden Ring.

Speaker 2:

I've been actually thinking about maybe bringing my PlayStation in my office and just hooking it up to my computer, but maybe I just need a new chair. You know what I'm saying? I don't know, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I get a new chair.

Speaker 2:

Or maybe I'm just being lazy and I just want to sit on a couch.

Speaker 1:

Do whatever makes you comfortable, Marcus, because the game is not going to make you comfortable.

Speaker 2:

No, it's not. Sometimes I find standing up is easier to play a game.

Speaker 1:

You said something about the reward feeling of meeting a difficult boss. Yes, and there is something to be said there that I know. For me, the flooding of dopamine into the emotion reward centers of my brain, when you aren't sure that you're going to win, or when you're just doing the next attempt, not even thinking this is the one right, you're just like I'm doing it again because I have to get closer, and then something happens where you are closer and you can't believe it, and then it can go even further than that, where you're not just closer, 15 more seconds, and that makes your brain get primed for possibly even an addiction level reaction of joy, enthusiastic joy, joy, enthusiastic joy that you don't get in a video game if you're just expecting to win and move through and see a story.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'm going to say that there are certain games that I do. What did I play that? I played it on easy, I just played it. I don't even remember, my God, it was on my Switch. Oh, trials of Mana, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I played it on Easy or Story whatever, and I loved it because I was doing it for the story and, believe it or not, a few of the boss fights were actually hard and when I looked it up they were like, yeah, even though you're playing it on this difficulty, they purposely made some of the bosses harder to keep you like, hey, you've got to work for it. You know what I mean. I did it and I enjoyed the story of the game and sometimes that's okay. But with these games the reward is beating the boss or an Elden Ring, like exploring. Like I really have never been an explorer, but I found myself okay. If I have to go straight, I'm going to go as far left as I can, then up and then cut back down and see what I can find. There's nothing like finding that piece of purple light sticking out of the ground and it's something you're never going to use, but I found it yeah purple light sticking out of the ground and it's something you're never going to use, but I found it.

Speaker 1:

yeah, actually, the world of elden ring is so well developed. They do a really good job of telling the story using the map and the buildings and things, and there is probably not a single thing in that game that is just randomly dropped there Right that, if you look at how that world is built, I fully believe everything is deliberate. Yeah, but there.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah. So the game is set in something called the lands between, and if you read the uh psychology of Elden Ring, You'll hear that in almost every chapter that they talk about the lands between. What is the lands between?

Speaker 1:

What is it between? Or is it just a clever way to say middle earth without saying middle earth?

Speaker 2:

I'm asking you that.

Speaker 1:

Really do think that this game was built around some very powerful ideas that relate directly to the kinds of stories that resonate with us on a spiritual level I don't mean religions as spiritual level like there's something innate inside all of us that react to certain themes, certain keywords and phrases, and this is why the hero's journey exists. Is because you get a orphan living on a desert planet or a cupboard under the stairs with a tragic past that they know very little about and you say say you're special, and then years later, the fate of existence rests on what they do with, how special their gifts are, and not just the lands between. That's the world we're in, the lands between and that cave of. Oh, what's the first cave called?

Speaker 2:

it's got a really cool with that, but with, but with the boss that has the giant nose uh-huh, it's where you wake up, it's where the oh, cave of oh anticipation

Speaker 1:

anticipation, right, okay, so, yeah. So the anticipation, that's very meta because it's about us anticipating playing the game. Yes, and we create the tarnish. The tarnish gets the final shard of the elden ring in the top of their hand, wakes them up, and now they're bound in their destiny to these big time players that all have names and backstories. And then there's you, the Tarnished. You're just lucky to be here, right, and that kind of storytelling with the right kind of world, with the right kind of power that governs existence. That's what mythology is, marcus, and that's why Elden ring hits the way it does.

Speaker 2:

I got Elden ring hits the way it does, because you can play that game in many different ways, but one thing connects everybody you still got to beat the boss.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, it's such a cool game to analyze how people play. There's so many builds that there really is the potential to do psychological analysis with a person. Look at how they build their character. Look at how they walk or travel the wilderness. Look at how they start boss fights. Look at how they carry themselves through boss fights. Look at what their tendencies are to survive different things. Yep, how much do they use shields? How much do they use quick reaction with dodges? How much do they jump with their swings and use a vertical attack approach? How much do they stay on the ground and use a a ground attack their heels and ankles kind of approach? And all of those things can lead to victory if you're good enough. So it's really a personality test in a way.

Speaker 2:

What character did you pick for your first playthrough?

Speaker 1:

The one that is prone to magic. I believe it's noble.

Speaker 2:

I don't know, I'm gonna google, I'm gonna look it up. Uh, because now I want to know starting classes classes, classes yep, so you have hero, bandit, astrologer, warrior, vagabond, wretch, confessor, prisoner, samurai, prophet. So you were probably the astrologer okay, that sounds right yeah, because you start with you, start with 16 intelligence and 15 mind yeah, my first character that I created was definitely an astrologer.

Speaker 1:

Then, yeah, that was my outfit for sure, all right.

Speaker 2:

What was yours, samurai? I'm not gonna go to the store and buy a katana, but I always was interested in like samurais and ninjas and stuff like that as a kid and and I always refer to myself as the beverly hills ninja- you did last episode too yeah, so it just fit for me to do it and, like my character, I picked the biggest guy I could.

Speaker 1:

I played as a pink haired girl. Yeah, that's like my thing now it is your thing I also have the sword from kill bill. As far as the whole not going and getting yourself a samurai sword yeah yeah, yeah either way, I love those movies have you seen those movies, marcus?

Speaker 2:

yeah, of course. Yeah, so good. I remember when the number two came out, the final like that big fight scene, they had to make it go black and white because there was so much blood. They could not do it on a movie without rating it something higher than r yeah, ah, so good but anyway.

Speaker 2:

So back to elden ring. What I was saying is I feel like the opening classes say a lot about yourself without saying it, like the first playthrough, the first, because people then go back and take somebody and they stay level one, except they level their weapon through the whole game and they don't get hit by anything, which is just mind-boggling to me it really is mind-boggling but my point is your opening class is just a start.

Speaker 2:

So I was like I literally sat at that screen for 20 minutes trying to figure it out and people would tell me look, it's just your starting class. Where you start is not where you finish, and I was like really, they're like no, you can be anything you want as the game goes on.

Speaker 1:

Like they tell us in elementary school before they let adulthood crush us into no self-esteem or hope for the future Like Elden Ring. Oh my gosh. Elden Ring is just our society so it's for me now I looked at it as okay, what am I?

Speaker 2:

what is going to give me the best shot to win? So I picked the samurai because it came with an uji katana, which is a great sword to start with. You got a bow and arrow, which is good to maybe catch the attention of one of the soldiers, and you want to pull them towards you without pulling the whole mob. That actually worked out really well for me in the beginning, and the uji and your dexterity was pretty high to start. So all around it was a great class for me to start with, but I ended up staying or I still have a katana which I use the Moonveil katana, but that is a magic katana, so I put more into intelligence than I have dexterity.

Speaker 1:

My main setup is double moon veil. Katana, wait, how do you get two? You gotta do a second playthrough and l1 instead of r1. You have a different combo, when your two weapons match, right yeah you do the yeah, it's a it's many more hits in the general combo. So the reason I do that is because my magic is maxed. So those two swords, if I'm in a melee situation, give me a lot of opportunity to kill things quickly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I, when you said that it I don't know why it made me think of bringing the milkshake to the yard, but I don't know, my moon veil, bring all the boys to the yard.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I don't even know, marcus hey, that's okay.

Speaker 2:

can you tell me how you felt when you left the cave of anticipation and you opened up those two doors to this bright yellow? I'm closing my eyes, thinking about the sun coming out and it says Limgrave, and you're looking out at the distance like how far am I going to get to go?

Speaker 1:

here. You see the Erd tree too, right, it's a really big moment. It actually reminds me of Journey, right? You see the goal from the very beginning of the game and you just know it's going to take a lot to get there, creating a promise with you that if you don't give up, this is where you're going to make it, and those are really powerful moments. And actually my chapter in Psychology of Elden Ring is my answer to that question. What I just said in words, verbally, is my chapter that I instantly felt the journey in Elden Ring.

Speaker 1:

Even though there's not long cut scenes in the story, you have to pursue it yourself in order to understand it. The story is not actually in the game, so to speak. The story is about the game, and a lot of game players have created YouTube videos that are really awesome to explain the lore and dissect everything, and that's how you really come to understand where you're going on the map and why you're going there, and when you understand that this game is so much bigger than just a super hard video game. So the Erdtree is a promise of how special the game is going to be if you stick with it.

Speaker 2:

The game is amazing.

Speaker 1:

It's hard, though you have to attack this game in a very different way than other games, but if you let yourself go there mentally, it can actually help you play other games too, because you have to let that part of you where success decides how good you are part of you where success decides how good you are you have to let it fall asleep or die. You know that losing is part of the game. Now, falling short and having to do a section again, it's part of the experience, and you have to take that positive from just getting a little closer yeah, but again, how did you feel when you walked through those two doors?

Speaker 2:

give me like, close your eyes and like think about that moment just for a second. Take your time and actually think about the moment you walked out of there. What was the first thing that like popped into your head? I think?

Speaker 1:

I would say it's amazement that I couldn't fully appreciate what this video game was trying to give me.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

I just knew it was amazing and you just want to play more. Then you go down the hill and the gold guy on the horse is right there and then the feeling changes a little bit.

Speaker 2:

I was trolled by my chat when I first did it. They're like, hey, you have to go fight this boss. And I was like all right, so I went. I must have died 15 times and I finally was like I can't like this guy is one-shotting me and okay, hit Marcus. Yeah, that's the key, that that was the ultimate troll, marcus, have you tried rolling yet? That was the big comment all the time. Marcus, you should try rolling, I am rolling. It didn't look like you rolled, it looked like you took a hit. You know they trolled me so hard. This was probably one of the. This was probably the first game I rage quit in 10 years. Yeah, but I'm going to say when I first started playing this and now I did not play this on launch, I played it a year later or more, I'm just so.

Speaker 2:

I remember going through the cave and my eyes are closed because I'm remembering this and I was coming through and there was this like smoke wall on my right-hand side before I walked outside and it said you need a sword stone key to enter. And I'm like what is a sword stone key? I have no idea what that is. And I was like all right, whatever. And I was like all right, whatever. So I walked to the door and it opened and I can remember watching the bushes blow around and I could almost feel like I could smell the fresh air after being in the cage, the cave.

Speaker 2:

But the one thing that was most distinct to me was how far you could see in the distance. I stood there and my eyes are closed because I can remember it like it was yesterday and you remember like you're looking as far as you can see in the game and you're like I have to explore all of this, wow. And then you take your first three steps or five steps and there's this thing on the ground and you click it and it's a grace and it that is oh, my eyes are open now, and that starts your journey into the game and I literally oh, oh, I have goosebumps right now Just thinking about it. Yeah, cause that moment is there's. There's many moments in games that give have given me goosebumps, but that is one that I will never forget.

Speaker 1:

The difference in our answers. There is such an interesting comparison of our personality types. So everyone that knows me already if you're not familiar with me, I'm going to introduce you to the beginning of my gaming research, which used personality testing to break down how people play and experience video games differently. And the first study I ever did use the Myers-Briggs type indicator, which gives us all four letters and that's our personality type the majority of the time. But we fluctuate, right, and we grow and we change over the years. But my four letters are pretty much locked in, marcus, yours are probably pretty much locked in. My description of what it was like to walk through those doors was more intuitive. It was more of a like. Here's what logic allows me to remember. Yours was much more based in your senses and your appreciation of what it was like in a tactile way, like the bushes and the wind and the distance and the visuals.

Speaker 3:

Those are all senses.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. So what I broke down there is the daunting understanding of what challenge is in front of me and yours is. I have five senses and I can actually taste this video game, which to me is bonkers. But that's why I love psychology and personality testing and that's why, no matter how many times people try to troll and critique me online and talk about why they don't like the myers-briggs, because their letters are always wrong and whatever. Listen, your letters change based on what you want to answer for those questions.

Speaker 2:

I agree with you.

Speaker 1:

You broke down really well, regardless of if you have an S for that second letter or an N, like me. Your answer was the S answer and mine was the N answer.

Speaker 2:

And I think the only time you truly get an accurate characterization of yourself is the first time you do it, because the first time you do it, I feel feel like you answer it honestly, and the second time you overthink it I'm gonna go doc mode on you, marcus.

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna explain why you're not wrong, but I want to explain what actually happens in those tests. That makes a lot of people's assumptions wrong, okay. So if I ask you, how much do you enjoy Elden Ring on a scale of one to 10? All right, give me a number, okay. Then I ask you 12 other questions that are all random and about not that. Then I ask you how much do you dread playing Elden Ring One to 10. Okay. And then I ask you again, marcus, how much do you enjoy the time that you get where you potentially could choose to play Elden Ring 10. Okay. And then I ask you how aware are you that playing Elden Ring could make your day feel more difficult?

Speaker 2:

Repeat the question.

Speaker 1:

It doesn't matter, just give me a number.

Speaker 2:

A nine.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so I asked you four questions right there. They were all the same question. Okay, they were just aimed in different directions.

Speaker 2:

I actually yeah, but you asked how much does it frustrate me? Essentially, it frustrates me at a 10. But how much do I love it? It also means a 10. But those are two different questions.

Speaker 1:

Only to you, because you don't study psych tests right. So here's the thing, Marcus.

Speaker 2:

I just got shunned.

Speaker 1:

How much do you enjoy playing video games?

Speaker 3:

out of 10. 8 out of 10.

Speaker 1:

How much does a day feel more stressful when you know there is no chance to play a video game? And then you answer that could be a 2, could be a 7 I don't care.

Speaker 2:

Okay, right, I'm starting to see.

Speaker 1:

So if you're thirsty, how nice would it be to have a coke, right? If you're not thirsty, how much does it bother you to not have a Coke? Those are measuring the same thing. And then people complain to me you ask the same question so many times. Then it's your job to answer the same thing every time, because what I'm checking is not what your answer is.

Speaker 1:

I'm checking how consistent your thought process is and just by me changing the phrasing of the word, I'm figuring the phrasing of the question. Let me say that again, just by me asking the question with different phrasing, I'm not measuring your answer. I'm measuring your answer compared to the way you've answered that question exactly the same way five minutes ago. And if you change, that makes you closer to neutral. But if you stay extreme yes, having a coke helps me with thirst. No, not having a coke would be very difficult when I'm thirsty, right. If you answer the opposite extreme and you're basically giving the same answer and now you're very highly in the I prefer to drink Coca-Cola, group Right. And people get angry and say these tests are bogus online all the time. And I'm just laughing. You don't even understand what we're doing to you.

Speaker 2:

I don't, I just got. I absolutely don't like.

Speaker 3:

I need Elden Ring for my day to feel complete playing elden ring makes my day feel incomplete, right, those?

Speaker 2:

that's what I'm saying yeah, I, I don't disagree, but after talking about this, it is true and you actually blew my mind. You've only done it a few times, but that was just like wow.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so Moonveil Katana makes the game better. Not having the Moonveil Katana makes the game worse.

Speaker 2:

So we can be honest. I just purchased Elden Ring for the PS5. Oh, wow, it's going to be at my house tomorrow, so I'm torn Start over no, there's something to be at my house tomorrow, so I'm torn Start over no, there's something I can do somehow Watch the YouTube video I got to do it when I can get my save data from my PC and link it to the PS5.

Speaker 1:

There's a way to transfer your data. I would love to play Elden Ring with my PC character and take my 99 magic onto the PS5.

Speaker 2:

So there's that and part of me says, maybe I try a different character, but I feel like I have to beat the game before I make another character. There's no reason to make another character, marcus, because you can go into the academia castle oh yeah, I can go see rinaldi, sure, but no, I guess what I'm saying is this if I can't figure out how to transfer the data, yeah that's what I have to figure out.

Speaker 1:

That's number one priority does it invalidate your ability to earn trophies? I don't care about that, oh I do, like what's the difference?

Speaker 2:

I'm not changing the game, you know what I mean. I'm just transferring my save data. You know, like I don't care if I get the trophy on steam or the achievement on steam or the trophy on the playstation, I don't. I don't play games for trophies, I play games because I enjoy them in general.

Speaker 1:

That is true for me too, but when there's a game that is now, I am caught.

Speaker 2:

That is the biggest crock of shit. Nobody listening to this podcast believe what he's saying. He cares so much he cares so much for a trophy, he will grind for hours and hours to get that 100. Do not listen to what he's saying the game matters to me.

Speaker 1:

What marcus just said is true. That's where I was going is, if the game doesn't matter to me in the grand scheme of my life, then I can play it on easy and finish the story and be done, and that was very nice. But elden ring has done a lot for me in life. Um, I've done panels about it at conventions, and not just the ones in florida, I think. Yeah, my first panel I ever did was on soulsborne games, right after Elden Ring came out, and that was my introduction to the Geek Therapeutics people. They were asking me if I was nervous, if I was going to be okay, if I had an idea what I was going to say, and I didn't understand that. They were checking if I was going to be able to do the panel. I think they have a lot of people that are anxious if I was going to be able to do the panel. I think they have a lot of people that are anxious, and I just love when people give me a microphone, marcus, and a chance to talk.

Speaker 2:

Really.

Speaker 1:

I wouldn't know that. Yeah, I even do it for fun in my free time. Oh shit, okay, this has to be the best conversation we've ever had anyway, moving on, let me ask you a question.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, who in the game was your fate? Is your favorite npc?

Speaker 1:

ranny giant wizard hat. She's my soulmate. Yeah, I got it. I gotta save the world for her. I just I think that whole quest line if you can complete the game and fix the elden ring for her, that is my preferred ending and the endings that we go for were a big component of my chapter and that's why I needed to go and finish the game five times. There's one ending that I've never earned and it bothers me, but I just don't know, because every time you clear it, things feel harder the next time and I don't know what it is about the attempt to finish it the sixth time. But I'm dying so easy and I almost think that starting a new character would be the better choice if I want that sixth ending to see it with my own eyes. Choice if I want that sixth ending to see it with my own eyes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I.

Speaker 1:

What NPCs did you resonate with the most so far?

Speaker 2:

It's hard for me to say because, Believe it or not, what is the woman who hugs you?

Speaker 1:

Oh darn it.

Speaker 2:

I don't remember her name. Believe it or not, her. That's such a good story too, like and in that it's going to lead us into the next part of this conversation. But when I came in and she's just wanted a hug and I'm like subconsciously in the back of my head, I'm like fuck, I want a hug she's gonna give you debuffs, marcus, you got her, yeah, but you don't know that, you don't know that on the front end.

Speaker 2:

And then all of a sudden you see this weird like arrow pointing up and you're like what is that all about?

Speaker 1:

If you got education from the same schools that I did, you would be very suspicious of what kind of communicable debuffs she's about to give you.

Speaker 2:

So the point is, I resonated with her a lot and um, I love ranny like she's perfect with all four of her arms yeah and I don't know for me, not me, it's her face, she. She looks so innocent. But anyway, the way she spoke and she's like a hug and you're just I could feel it in real life and that resonated with me a lot.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Why? I don't know.

Speaker 1:

It's such a brutal world that you're in. Everything wants to kill you, and so for one person to just make it all about that kind of closeness, the intimacy of being alive and just connecting in a non-threatening way, I think that's a really tender moment to have in a game that's so much about despair.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that leads me into the game of their quests. So their quests are not normal. And I say normal in the sense of you meet somebody. If you're not listening to what they say, you will never hear it again. It's gone for good.

Speaker 3:

Like there's.

Speaker 2:

There's no quest log or journal. It's hey, who's this guy? And he starts rambling and my kid walks through the door and I listen and I it's gone for good, like game over, don't know what just happened. And then you find them seven hours later at the corner of a building selling crack cocaine because they, they, you didn't do their quest and they're starving and they got to make some money. You know what I mean yeah, there's.

Speaker 1:

There's a brother quest where you meet somebody in the in the hold where everything's peaceful and you just buy stuff and, yeah, the round table hold. I remember Wes asked me once if I did the quest and found his brother or something. I had no idea what he was talking about. And then my next playthrough, I heard the conversation again. I was like, oh my gosh, that guy is totally hinting for me to help him and I still didn't follow the hint. I didn't understand what he was saying. I could just tell the second time after that conversation that's a quest that I'm supposed to do. I still don't think I've done that quest correctly. There's always something where I get lost and I can't figure it out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I did one where I talked to this female and I went and did a bunch of stuff and when I came back she was slaughtered on the ground. I felt terrible.

Speaker 1:

That always happens.

Speaker 2:

You can't save her.

Speaker 1:

I feel so much better right now.

Speaker 3:

You actually are just helping her to get a letter or something to help you move forward. She's the sacrifice for your success.

Speaker 2:

Wow, wow I thought I messed that up all this time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, and then there's the girl that needs you to get the needle so that you can carve the rod off of her, and then eventually, she basically becomes millennia. I don't know, I don't know if I'm interpreting that correctly, but it just seems like you do an exorbitant amount of work to save this girl and it just leads to you finding the door to fight Millenia. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, she's like the best boss in the whole game. People say she's the hardest.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm saying the girl that you're like helping.

Speaker 1:

Oh, there's a church over in Caelid and she's dying from the rot and she asks you to go find a gold needle. So then you go into the swamp and win a boss fight and get the gold needle and then you show it to the guy who's in the rocking chair in the little hut next to the city that's down the street from the church and you just go back and forth passing the needle around all these people until you eventually carve the rot off of her skin and then you have to go find her a prosthetic arm. And then you get her a prosthetic arm and then she feels like she's ambulatory now so she can start walking around.

Speaker 2:

You start meeting her different is that michael's arm in that the shaded castle? I think so I have that, but I don't think I've ever done that quest.

Speaker 1:

I don't even know you didn't give it to the girl that's missing an arm. I don't even know if I know Monster.

Speaker 2:

I don't even know where the girl is. I'm going to look this up because, see, this is why this game is so good.

Speaker 3:

Right, there's no markers above people's heads with exclamation points that says, hey, pay attention to me and figure this out. So just for you. You walk through a church, saw a girl dying from rot, missing an arm, and you have a prosthetic arm and you're just like whatever, I gotta get to the retreat. You have her arm in your inventory, marcus. Oh my god, I've never fallen apart like this on the podcast this is the best podcast ever.

Speaker 2:

I have no idea like, but so you're helping my point right. You're helping my point right. You're helping me say that, like, the quest lines are so incredible, but I don't even know what the hell I'm doing.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

I met some idiot in a tower and he was rude to me and I just wanted to kill him and he was like go get me some scrolls. And then I go find some scrolls and he has a bunch of people tied up to walls and there's some sorcerer that's like in a jail, and I'm like what the hell is going on here? Did I just find like a fucking kidnapping ring? What the fuck is going on right now? Celibus, sleuth, celibus, oh my gosh, he's the worst. Yeah, he's the worst. But I just stumbled upon him. It was during Ronnie or Ranny's quest, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to go over to this tower and then this guy's just an Uber jerk face to me and I'm like what is happening? These quests are so incredible, but if you don't pay attention, it's you're gone. It's gone, gone for good.

Speaker 1:

Unless you start over and get one more chance to listen better.

Speaker 2:

No, I think you don't have to. I think you can. I think at this point it's okay to do the Google.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But my favorite part of the game believe well, not really the favorite One of the favorite parts of the game are these white spots on the ground where you can click on them and they have messages from people and they're just so dumb, dumb, sometimes, like this is a wall try finger but hole yes exactly yeah and oh.

Speaker 2:

but sometimes they'll give you, with a good thing, ambush on right and left and you're like, oh shit, I'm about to die. Because let me tell you those bone guys in the catacombs that, like you don't realize, you got to hit them once they're dead, because they're going to come back to life. I didn't realize that I kept running through the joint and then all of a sudden I had nine of them on me and I got the you died screen.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely so. The reason that I think from software games are so compelling and this goes back to when I was playing Demon's Souls this was one of the earliest realizations that made me think this game is something that I'm really going to enjoy In all the games I've ever played up to that point. So we're talking Devil May Cry, resident Evil, we're talking Final Fantasy, we're talking Mario, we're talking all of it. You get hit by something. You have your little hearts or your health bar. You lose one of them, no matter what, the thing is right. Link gets hit by a fireball. He has 18 heart containers and he loses one heart from that fireball, maybe three In Elden Ring and in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Speaker 1:

My mentality of how I understand damage is it's going to hurt your health bar the same amount that it would hurt you if it happened to you. So, like an arrow to your knee, I now have 10% health. It did 90% health. I'm going to die now because I cannot take an arrow to the knee, marcus, and still be an adventurer, all right, it's just not in me. You know, a rolling rock crushes you. You're dead, right, 100% dead. I'm not surviving that. There's no secret path to roll in like Indiana Jones You're just dead.

Speaker 2:

But then there's the giant arrows that those monsters shoot when you're on top of the mountain and they stick in you and they stay there and you just like 4% health and you're like I can't do anything.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, you're still dying, right? I just like the idea that the physicality of your character is connected to your health bar, that you are as dead on your health bar as you would be if this happened to your actual body.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So if you don't want to take a fireball to the face in real life, don't take that fireball to the face in Elden Ring. It's not going to go well for you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh and oh. There was another part in the game where I was running up a hill and I had to get somewhere and all of a sudden I got like this thing called madness, and it was the first time ever and it killed me and I had no idea how to beat it and it ended up being the Eye of Sauron that you had to hide from.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I was like, did they just put Lord of the Rings in this game Lands?

Speaker 1:

Between is a synonym for Middle Earth. Elden Ring, the One Ring. It's all over the place. It's like George RR Martin's Fantasy that he could write His own version of Lord of the Rings.

Speaker 2:

Who's Samwise Gamgee you. Who's Frodo Me? I don't know. Did you really just do that?

Speaker 3:

I've told you that before I know you walked right into that.

Speaker 1:

That's been a every time I need a pep talk because I'm doubting my content creator journey and I talked to marcus. He's earned over the years for me that he's my sam.

Speaker 2:

That's just what it is oh shit, all right, I think. I think this discussion is not over, because there's a lot more of Elden Ring we should talk about between Elden Ring, the DLC and Night Rain, but I think we save it for another podcast.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just so everyone who's listening knows, the reason we didn't really talk about Shadow of the Erdtree is because I never really invested myself in Shadow of the Erdtree. It's something I think about all the time. I beat a couple bosses, I found a couple of the things to level up and then I just stopped playing because reasons I just got busy. I started traveling for work stuff in the summer and never went back to it. So someday we're gonna have to talk about shadow the earth tree. We're gonna have to talk about when you become elden lord and we're gonna have to talk about Shadow the Erdtree we're going to have to talk about when you become Elden Lord and we're going to have to talk about Night Rain.

Speaker 2:

So let's you know what. Let's continue this conversation next week.

Speaker 1:

Also, I have a bucket list goal that we got to figure out that seamless co-op mod, because I think that would be so fun.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

I agree that could be in episode two. Mods are not really official content, but the way this game works, it really feels like that. One has elevated the profile of the game to where people are that interested about that mod in particular. It allows two or more people to actually connect and not in the I don't remember what they call it. There is a way to connect just for boss fights, but this mod allows you to connect for the traveling part too, and I really would love to do that. It just seems like that would make the game so much more of a fun experience instead of a daunting, frustrating, demoralizing experience. It's, it would be fun. Yeah, so we're gonna talk more Elden Ring next week. Yeah, everyone, before you go, I just need you to remember one thing, because you listened to this very long, very entertaining episode. You are all made in Liss. Continue the journey, thank you.

People on this episode

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Daniel Kaufmann

Host
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MarcusB814

Co-host