The Gaming Persona

When Games Were Just Games: The Lost Art of Play Without Pressure

• Daniel Kaufmann Ph.D. | Dr. Gameology • Season 5 • Episode 9

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We explore why old games are being played more than new AAA titles, diving into nostalgia, content creation pressures, and the psychological appeal of returning to simpler gaming experiences.

• The therapeutic effect of watching others play retro games like Tetris and Mega Man
• How streaming transforms gaming from personal enjoyment into performance, creating a "prison sentence" feeling
• The psychological concept of flow in games like Tetris that creates perfect mental engagement
• Why MMOs like Star Wars: The Old Republic retain players through community rather than cutting-edge graphics
• The problem with bloated modern games that don't respect player time
• Visual appeal versus gameplay mechanics in creating lasting gaming experiences
• The challenge of returning to content creation games after playing them just for yourself
• How nostalgia guarantees a safe, predictable emotional experience compared to new games

Play the games that bring you joy, not just the ones that might attract viewers or validate your gamer status. Gaming should remain primarily about personal enjoyment rather than performance.


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Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast. This is the show that explores who we become when we play games, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just vibing in cozy indie worlds. Join me, dr Gamology and my good friend Marcus as we search for all the ways gaming and personal growth collide. Grab your controllers and let's continue the journey. Now. And we're live. I'm untying a hockey skate. Continue the journey now.

Speaker 2:

And we're live. I'm untying a hockey skate, thank you. Thank you for the delay. Usually, I started off and I didn't today, and I was seeing what you were going to do and you were like, and we're live. And you were silenced like Marcus, why aren't you talking? And I'm unlacing a hockey skate. I had the most interesting gaming week ever, oh really, yeah, so you got to listen to this. So I've been playing elden ring and I'm in the mountain tops of the giants oh, that's such a good area.

Speaker 1:

How are you liking it?

Speaker 2:

it's. It's definitely hard. The last time when I last shut it off, I was at I got to the urge tree avatar and I was fighting it. All of a sudden the second one showed up and I was like, oh no, this is not gonna be good and I died because the second one came over and slammed me with its hammer and I was just like, okay, I need to think about this and that was probably three days ago. But that's not the interesting gaming point. The interesting gaming is I have found like myself, before I've been going to bed I've been watching people play old video games, like last night I watched a guy live play tetris whoa and it was like a video on YouTube, right, it was just like of their like old live stream. But I found it to be so therapeutic because I remember playing it as a kid and I was always like, only if I could play it at level 99 speed.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that's intense too, because you make so many extra mistakes when you speed it up like that and it was like I don't want to say it was called like, it was like a speed run, but like I'm finding like people playing these old games super relaxing and I'll watch it for five or ten minutes before I go to bed and it's only been like three days, but intertwined with our topic of the week, which is talking about, like, why people play old video games versus the new video games. And it's an interesting topic because I just found myself it's you know what, what's it called ASMR is.

Speaker 1:

Oh, of course I do. Let me just rub my microphone and make everyone have weird feelings during the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Okay, exactly, but it's almost for me, it's almost like an ASMR, because it's super relaxing to me without the noises, so you don't want me to put my entire microphone in my mouth right now. If you did it, I would love it, because Patreon would see the video and it would get clipped and sent all over the internet. So I want you to do it.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, I don't want to do it now, because then there's implications on what Dr K does when he's not teaching class. Dr K is bi-curious everybody.

Speaker 2:

But anyway, whoa. So I guess the point I'm trying to make is it brought me back because, like on one side I'm playing a lot of Elden Ring and I've also I watched somebody play Mega man 3.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:

That's like going back at least to nes, right? Yes, yeah, yeah, wow. Now I don't know if they were playing it on like the nes or they were playing it like on the switch through, because if you have switch online, you can play all the nes games on there. They have it so you can stream it. So I'm not sure which is which, but it's one of those things where I thought it was so cool. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because those games did not exist as new during the era of streaming games.

Speaker 2:

So when you get to see footage of someone playing at a high, masterful level, there is a novelty to that, even though the game may be 40 years old at this point you know that's a great point when, back when I played the game, back when I played the game, there was no way to watch somebody else play it unless they were in your living room exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So the internet has unlocked all kinds of social potentialities for us that we take for granted, because we're playing games here in 2025 and we all have whatever year it is where it's like. I became a gamer in 19, whatever, or 2000, whatever, but the online environment is constantly giving us new ways to interact with each other, and that changes the psychology of what we become when we play games.

Speaker 2:

There it is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Like we said in, just kidding.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, I thought you were going to make my week so easy for editing.

Speaker 1:

On the topic of Tetris, though, it's really exciting for me to hear you bring up that game for this topic in this episode, because one of the most influential books in my journey of learning about game psychology before I started being a voice in it was by Jane McGonigal is broken and how video games can help save the world, and her example of what defines something as a video game. She used Tetris, if I remember correctly, as the pure example for what a video game is, and so you use the concept of having a goal, having rules, having feedback and participation is voluntary. Those are the four required elements of playing a game, and in my book I actually used a image that was a hybrid mixture of generic Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter visuals to explain this, because you have the health bar, you have the two characters getting ready to fight. You have the health bar, you have the two characters gang ready to fight, you have the command fight in the middle of the screen and, of course, the person holding those controllers is playing voluntarily, and so mortal kombat and street fighter go back a long time in our history too, but tetris is even more pure than those games because you play it alone and it creates psychological flow for the player, so that your psyche merges with the activity so perfectly when you're playing a game like Tetris. That's correct.

Speaker 1:

Yay, I got all points from Professor Marcus.

Speaker 2:

But you're right because, if you think back, like, tetris was the first game to ever come out for the game boy is it?

Speaker 1:

oh my gosh, that's a neat trivia question.

Speaker 2:

If it's true, I don't actually know so if tetris is the first game, that really was the pave, the way for the future, kind of a thing.

Speaker 1:

You know what I mean and we're talking about the game boy. In an era where my primary ways of playing games is the steam deck and the playstation portal, that's wild to me yeah, you're at that point where you're finding the convenience of gaming.

Speaker 2:

You're finding the convenience of gaming when it's handheld right, where I'm now finding the convenience of gaming, when it's handheld Right, where I'm now finding the convenience of gaming, of couch gaming.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, when I say the majority of my gameplay is handheld, that's actually a lie. The majority of my gameplay is on Twitch, followed by handheld, followed by the couch.

Speaker 2:

The couch is the one that I could actually go the entire week and not even do it because, yes, I understand, but for me it's always been, as long as I can remember, it's been a computer, except when, obviously, when I was a kid, it's always been the the computer like I love. There's nothing better than sitting at your computer, putting on your headset and just going into your own world and playing whatever, whatever said game that is I have a really tragic rebuttal to that idea in the case yeah, tragedy is about to end the episode, here we go.

Speaker 1:

Yep, we're gonna get the eeyore, doom and gloom, winnie the Pooh style going here. Oh boy, when I'm at my computer, my brain does this thing, where I start thinking about work or content creation.

Speaker 2:

No, you're not wrong at that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So in terms of my content career journey, dr Gamology is a lot of fun. But Dr Gamology is tied into one of my work roles and I have tied it into the other work role. So if I'm sitting at my computer I might turn on my PS5 and I might open the capture card and have my controller.

Speaker 1:

It's right, here I have my PS5 controller always here so I might play, but usually the play is not for a purely and only for a sense of fun, and I miss that. I'm just going to call myself out. That is not the right way for me to live my life. I have some changes I have to make.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so I'm going to go one step further, man, we're going to talk about games, but I think this is going deeper back when I streamed, and I streamed for years and I loved it.

Speaker 2:

And at the end, towards the end of my streaming stuff, I missed turning on a game. To play a game. Yeah, I felt always if I'm going to play a game, I have to do it in front of people. It was just in my mind I'm thinking like, oh my god, I have to do this with people. I need to like what would the audience think, and it was.

Speaker 1:

And that's the kiss of death, marcus oh, but it's the truth.

Speaker 2:

When you stream, it becomes I don't want to say an addiction, but it becomes that point in your life where you're everything is for the clip or everything is for the viewer. And I stopped in the end of my content creation. Look at streaming now as much as I love it, but I look at it more as a prison sentence. Ooh, that is a fun metaphor, because if you're married to a schedule, you need to be on time. People count on you to be there Monday, wednesday, friday at 1030 at night or whatever that is. They're counting on you at that time.

Speaker 2:

And if you're not there, sure, sure you can take the day off, but at the end of the day, if you're not there and that happens a couple times and then noob1234 is a brand new streamer and they're playing the same game they go over there. They may never come back. So it's oh, am I gonna lose a viewer and this and that? And sure these giant content creators? They don't care, because asmongold has 51,000 people watching him at all times, so like he doesn't really care about the one viewer not coming or going, but like to the small time streamers who have been streaming and grinding, who have 10, 5, 20, 50, 100 viewers, five people don't start to not come, who are chatters. You start to notice that.

Speaker 1:

That's absolutely true. Sometimes it works a little bit differently. We had a time change a couple of weeks ago In fact, this might be our first recording since the time change and, as a result, I have been really struggling with hitting my 9 am start times on the two days where that's what I've taught my community to expect. Lucky for me, I'm a professor in Arizona, and do you know why that is? A is a quirky element of my start time, marcus.

Speaker 2:

Because they don't have daylight savings time.

Speaker 1:

Because they do not have daylight savings time. So my 9 am start used to be 7 am, so people could turn on my stream when they're driving to work or after they do their morning shower. They might have some work from home. It's very easy to turn on a stream at 8 am, but for me it's 10 am. I started missing those people because they're not going to wake up at 6 am to watch me, even if they are awake at 6 am. So what happened today? I had to sleep in, I was not feeling good this morning and I actually started my stream after 11. And boom, all the people that have been missing me because of this time change showed up and more people showed up and some of the advertising things that we're doing. Oh nice, you finished lacing it up. Marcus just finished lacing up his hockey gear, his what do we call them Skate?

Speaker 2:

Oh, my God.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I don't play your sports puck.

Speaker 2:

Sports puck. I like that I was going to say, sports balls, Anyway.

Speaker 1:

So my point is, in principle, losing five people when you're a small stream because you missed your target starting time. That is a real thing. But sometimes you find new people by messing with your schedule and then the old people still show up and you end up almost doubling your viewership, which, luckily for me, is what happened this morning. So thank you. Everyone who got your coffee and chose to hang out with me is what happened this morning. So thank you everyone who got your coffee and chose to hang out with me gaming in Final Fantasy 14. It was so much fun, so I'm nothing without all of you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah and that's, and so you're making my point is that's, but that's content creation. And it got to the point for me where I was just and I'm not even being negative still to this day. I love streaming, but I would want, I wouldn't want to play games unless I was live.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I felt like that many times. In fact, I have ended up not even playing certain games because of the worry of will my audience care about me playing this game?

Speaker 1:

And then by the time, I decide that, okay, I don't care about that anymore. I'm super motivated to play it, but now it's not the hot topic, and so you might go live doing this game that you've been on the fence about for two weeks, but it's old news and you don't get anyone to watch you because the people that know you for playing one or two other games they're like oh, I don't need to check that out. And then the people that were excited about this new game they found their people that they're already invested in, and I have done this to myself so many times, marcus.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, and you're not the only one Right this is actually a phenomenon that many streamers almost every streamer runs into at least once.

Speaker 2:

Yep, that's what I'm saying. So you're just finding your groove, and for me it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm still thinking about this metaphor of streaming being a prison sentence and I'm wondering if hate raids are like getting shivved, or leaving your viewer counter up is like dropping the soap. I don't really know that much about prison, but I think we could use this down the line.

Speaker 2:

I look at people that hate raid as just people who are unhappy with themselves and they want to make somebody else feel bad. Oh, that's true, you know. But moving past that, right, I think that playing an old video game brings you back to whatever time, back to like whatever happy time you might have had as a kid or as a young adult, and that's why so many games, old games, are played. Older games are played because they were saying I saw a study that more old games are being played more than the new AAA games, and it said that people are preferring to play the older games versus the newer games and game companies can't understand why. I kind of laugh at that. Yeah, because maybe your game just sucks yeah and they?

Speaker 2:

I don't. I can see a point. It's all nostalgia, right. There's a reason why skyrim is one of the most played video games. It's because it's so good and people love it and you can change the game. You can put your face on every character in the game because of modding. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Mods turn games. Evergreen for sure. In fact, I think people have modded Morrowind into Skyrim or something like that. So that's also just the creativity of the gaming community can take an old game and make it alive in a way, 20 years after release, that the game devs never intended. And as long as you're not selling the mods and doing things that infringe on copyright, that's usually fair game, and sometimes the game studios actually support mods like that, like in Fallout. People creating Fallout London is a really great example.

Speaker 2:

Wait, is that really a?

Speaker 1:

thing, yeah. So people loved Fallout 4 so much with the game engine and the updates and what the game played like, and someone built what is London going to look like in the world of Fallout and made it a completely fan-made expansion project.

Speaker 2:

So you're just adding. You're proving my point right now.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I did something that I did not have on my bingo card last episode. Ooh, tell me. Oh, you already know, even if you don't realize you do. I was doing something very surprising to me on Tuesday night, Marcus.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I know what that is now.

Speaker 1:

So one of our best friends in our gaming community, marcus Doritos 95,000, decided to tell me give me the inside scoop last week, said Doc, you should start playing Star Wars the Old Republic again. Sorry, I haven't done that yet, but the rest of the message was because the final episode of Utini cast is next week. So I picked up my phone. I texted Chill from Utinicast, who has been the lead host of that show for 15 plus years. Wow, that's insane, right, isn't it? Yeah, so I had a master's degree the first time that Chill did an episode of Utinicast with Tio, and for those of you that are new to the show, I don't talk about this every episode. It's very possible you don't know this about me.

Speaker 1:

My original creator name is not Dr Gamology, it's Dr Swotor.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, my dissertation research was in 2016 is when I collected the data, and it was on player personality and motivation styles for Star Wars the Old Republic players. So when I got my doctorate and defended my dissertation, I changed my name and announced Anu Tdcast. My streaming name moving forward is going to be Dr Swotor, and the reason I didn't stream before that moment is because I didn't want to meet all kinds of people and build personal relationships in the game and then have my professors say that I tampered with my data. And then have my professors say that I tampered with my data. So I stayed pretty much a solo player with only my in-person friend group in Star Wars, the Old Republic for the first five years of playing the game, and then I only allowed myself to be more public and accessible once I ended up guest starring on an episode of Utini cast. So Star Wars the old Republic is an MMO. That is the reason that Marcus and I met as well, so it's a huge part of the DNA of our gaming persona show. Now.

Speaker 2:

But I'm going to back up to before. You guessed it on the last episode of the show. And when you talk about full circle, right, excuse me, when you talk about full circle of things, that's full circle. Your content creation journey started with Utteni cast and it ended. You ended the last show with them. That's a full circle.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And we talk about if we miss a week of the show or whatever. Or I just went through it with ending working class nerds. But can you imagine how it's going to feel for chill three weeks from now? You know, the first week, you're relieved to have not podcasting. Second week, oh yeah. Third week, wow, that microphone is just sitting in the office doing nothing maybe as zoom calls, we don't know yeah, but it's different.

Speaker 2:

I guess. Saying like it's just I can't even imagine. I can imagine what it's like, but you're talking about like the 15 years man nick and I did our podcast for almost eight and that's that's almost double yeah, this show is at five, but I did take half a year off last year, so which? Is good.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes you gotta do it, but my point is, he has never taken time off yeah, it was a really cool series of moments for me too, because, marcus, the hero's journey has three large stages that all have smaller stages inside them. But the last leg of that cycle is the return, and I like how you connected me being on that final episode with coming full circle, because I was able to return and I'm very different than I was when I left, which that's also what happens to the hero in the hero's journey as well, is you never get to return if you're the same person. It's whiny Luke on Tatooing and then mandalorian, season two luke yeah, 100 I just like to think that's the luke that I am.

Speaker 1:

I might be the last jedi luke for most of the day, though yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I can't ever see you throwing a lightsaber over your shoulder Fuck.

Speaker 1:

Robinson. Okay, not the way that he did it, because that was like a weird Saturday Night Live joke, but there are so many versions of a saber toss that I think would have worked better there.

Speaker 2:

But we're not, we're not, we are not.

Speaker 1:

No, we're not.

Speaker 2:

Can I ask you a?

Speaker 1:

question you can, let's do it.

Speaker 2:

What do you got? Do you know about the Mandela effect?

Speaker 1:

I do know about the.

Speaker 2:

Mandela effect. Okay, I think.

Speaker 1:

And I remember it happening in reality very clearly.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so I think that the Mandela effect happened right as the Last Jedi was coming out, and it changed the movie for us in our timeline because it was so bad, that's how it altered all of Star Wars.

Speaker 1:

Now, yeah for me. Oh my gosh, we're talking the Last Jedi on our episode.

Speaker 2:

And I love it.

Speaker 1:

It's all Chill's fault because I came so close to accidentally going there on Utinii cast. Wow, there's. I don't really want to lose our topic to talk about, Can I so?

Speaker 2:

can I just tell you? I asked, I told you when you and I decided we were going to team up. I told you, I warned you that, look at, we can start the show with a topic, but there's a 90% chance that I'm going to fuck it up and we are going to go on a complete sidebar and then say to the audience we're sorry, we didn't talk about that game, but we had a great discussion about the Last Jedi.

Speaker 1:

Here's the thing I really want to start doing a community movie night in discord, and if I do that, the first movie that I want to do is the phantom menace do you want to put people to sleep? No, the phantom menace is great. Marcus trade routes the best okay.

Speaker 2:

So listen, the best part of all of the phantom menace is at last we will reveal ourselves to the jedi. At last we will have revenge. Best part of the movie right there, boom done, it's over. Roll credits like you get sidious and you get Maul and it's over, like that.

Speaker 1:

You watch the Phantom Menace so that you can watch Attack of the Clones, so that you can watch.

Speaker 2:

Revenge of the Sith Anakin and Padme fall in love.

Speaker 1:

I love watching Anakin and Padme fall in love.

Speaker 2:

I do too, especially with the fork and the apple.

Speaker 1:

The CG apple is totally suspended in the air in front of him.

Speaker 2:

The point I'm trying to make, doc, is we don't have to have the topic be the topic, because we're having a better discussion. I am a very open platform kind of guy and you're a very scheduled guy and when our powers combine, we're not captain planet, we're just doc and Marcus in the gaming persona podcast. Okay, I want to go back to star Marcus in the.

Speaker 1:

Gaming Persona podcast. Okay, I want to go back to Star Wars, the Old Republic then. All right, I played that game for a very long time. It was my first MMO, so we're talking about why do people play old games? And then I get the chance to help chill, wrap it up and say some very sentimental things and say some very sentimental things and all the names in the chat for Moutini Guilds that I used to be so used to interacting with like old friends that I get to hang out with one more time on Twitch and I had a lot of nostalgic feelings even going through Wednesday after recording that.

Speaker 2:

I bet.

Speaker 1:

And it was really nice and I think that the reason that was on my mind for this episode the on-topic part of the episode anyway is nostalgic feelings are a guarantee that you're going to be safe in assuming you will have a good time. It is why we need a live-action Moana movie coming out very soon for all the people that are worried that they might accidentally go to the movies in November and see a movie they hate and they just remember enjoying Moana in November a decade ago. Do we need live action Moana? I do not think we do, but that movie is for the movie viewer the same as playing a very old game. Again, there's no secrets, there's no surprises. It just looks to your eyes the way you remembered it, in a way that feels right now. So that's kind of like remakes instead of playing the retro version.

Speaker 2:

But I think it's worth including in this conversation I believe that mmos are the ultimate video game, because a they don't end, and except when they shut the servers down, obviously. But my point is the an mmo is something that never ends, right you can put. The people have been playing star wars, the old republic, for 15 years, or 12 years, 13 years, 14 years, whatever that may be. And the point I'm trying to make with that is people have done the same stories over and over and over again, because there's always people to play with. I have been a few times lately. I've been doing world bosses with Doritos and Intisar and all of that, and it's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 2:

And gone are the days about worrying about do I have the best gear, rather than hanging out with old friends. You haven't heard their voices in a long time and sometimes that is more important than grinding. Yeah, and I think back to this week, me going on the switch online Cause we were talking about this and I played F zero. Do you remember that game on super Nintendo? Show me your moves. Yeah, so I played the snot out of that and I played it this week and it made me remember being a kid, playing that on Christmas and running over those like the track dots that electrocute your car and slow you down. Let me remember being a kid and like those days are obviously gone. Right, I'm not crying that I want to go back, but my point is it was just that feel-good moment, or when you hear a good song that you remember and it gives you a little bit of goosebumps because you're like, fuck yeah, I remember when this shit came out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. It's why every time I'm at the grocery store and they're playing like n-sync and britney spears, and it's oh my gosh I'm old.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm old, I'm officially old, but no, I guess the topic or the question was why are old games played more than the new ones? And I think it's because people don't want any bullshit. People are sick of all of the bullshit that comes out with a new game, cause the new game is coming out March 1st, but two weeks before there's a thousand reviews for it and people are saying it's trash, rather than before. It didn't matter. There was nobody coming out and saying this game sucks, like you had to wait for euro game or whatever. What was the game? Facts gamer, pc gamer to give it a review on the? And it didn't matter because you already ordered it, you pre-ordered that shit yeah and it didn't matter.

Speaker 1:

You played the the game and if it sucked, you were like fuck, I made a $50 or $60 mistake that I'm more planned and structured and you're more spontaneous and that's our personality types and I know that because you gave me your data in my dissertation research way back in the day. But I'm glad you recognize my brilliance now, here in the present. But let's talk about another way that we're completely different.

Speaker 2:

Wait stop, I got a needle Hold on, I just had to pop the ball a let's get more asmr going, all right.

Speaker 1:

So, marcus, let's talk about another way that we're incredibly different. Okay, when is the last time that you looked at a video game and your reaction was like god damn, this is the best looking video game I have ever seen? All the time, okay, I do not have that thought ever, ever like it, does not? It's like the difference between a taster that has three times the amount of taste buds on their tongue versus me. I really don't taste anything, which is why I like spicy foods and can survive anything that ends up in my mouth, because my mouth is not reacting to it. Okay, you have that in your eyeballs with video games.

Speaker 2:

I don't have that.

Speaker 1:

Okay, there we go. I am able to survive, with all my senses being all but dead, and your senses are very important for you being an effective human being.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, let me ask you a question what game did we both, elden Ring?

Speaker 1:

Elden Ring. It is beautiful and I know, up here in my brain I'm pointing at my brain I know it's beautiful.

Speaker 2:

I know, but you never rode torrent to a giant field or like to the edge of the water and just stopped, got off the horse and just looked around at the waves or like the grass moving or the trees, like actually didn't play the game didn't just exploring motivation, discovery motivation like just appreciating the environment.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I have done that, but I'm not doing it in a way that is in awe of how this game compares to other games. I could play jedi survivor and then final fantasy 14 in elden ring, and I don't see the difference.

Speaker 2:

So do you remember the game Tomb Raider when it first came out? The new ones, the new yeah, I played them recently.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that trilogy.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So I remember when it first came out and I had a really good graphics card and I had a shitty one when I first got it and then I upgraded and I could put it on ultra and I could see Laura Croft's individual hair like waving in the wind and I literally died, you could, marcus. I literally died three times because I was in awe of how beautiful the game was.

Speaker 1:

And that is not something that I like. That would never happen to me. That's my point. But I do know, looking at those games, that those games are made to look beautiful. And, by the way, when I played Shadow of the Tomb Raider on Steam on my PC, the one time it turned my desktop computer into a desk fan, right Like it was as loud as if I had a fan during summertime turned on and I looked at that I was like my steam deck doesn't even do that.

Speaker 2:

I think I'm gonna just play this on the steam deck because that cannot be good for my computer it's not that it's bad, it's just that it's your system is working, it's rendering a lot and your graphics card is fucking working, and I don't want it to work.

Speaker 1:

I want it to just be like chill and relaxed and let me do my work Then you better play Star Wars the Old Republic.

Speaker 1:

That's right. All right, if we're talking about where does the value of a game come from? For someone like me, it is not the visuals, and I believe the CEOs they're looking at why their games underperform and are confused because, a most of the time CEOs don't actually do a lot of the work and end up actually being idiots, but B I think the thing that helps CEOs earn the most money being at the top of a studio that creates video games are not the things that video game players actually want. Okay, I did something pretty cool this week as well. That is not a tini cast was on my stream. I fought sephiroth and jenova for five hours on sunday marcus and I completed dynamic difficulty. It was like a five-stage boss fight and it took me five hours to complete the fifth stage. So all the stages. I wasn't on the fifth stage for five hours, but I was on the fifth stage for two and a half.

Speaker 2:

Sure.

Speaker 1:

Okay, it was a big accomplishment in the list of things I've ever done as a video game player. And by the end of that I have some former students. I have some colleagues and peers that do mental health counseling that watch now. I have my game community people that know me as Dr Gameology as well. So I have a wide range of people from all the parts of my life watching this and they're just talking to me as I don't give up. We got the John Cena towel never give up. And I earned that towel right on Sunday and I did not give up. And they were just saying, doc, you are a very different gamer than me. I would not be able to handle this and things like that, like you are showing us. The definition of perseverance is one of my other favorite chat messages from Sunday.

Speaker 1:

And that game, I know, is beautiful, okay, and when I see it I know it with my eyes too. But that game has a flaw in my opinion, and that is too much bloated mini game activities and side quests much bloated mini game activities and side quests. It is a 50 hour game in the main story that balloons up to 85 or 90 on your first playthrough and it's not 40 extra hours of things that I felt like I actually want to do. I did them because I wanted a specific cutscene event to happen.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and so if I'm looking at the CEO for Square Enix and I'm looking at how that game got published and they're wondering, why didn't this sell gangbusters on PS5? Because the moment the game released, the narrative became this game is going to force you to play some bloated, lame minigame activities that you don't actually want to play, when all you want to do is help Cloud, tifa, aerith Barret and the gang defeat Sephiroth and save the world. And if you want that experience, play the PS1 version, because you can play the entire story, not just part two of a three-part story, in 30 hours. It just looks like a ps1 game but it's so much better yeah, you can.

Speaker 1:

The ps1 game is timeless. It's a classic game, but it's it's really okay.

Speaker 2:

So it's really hard for me to play an old game. They're clunky. What we're talking about tonight, though, yeah, but I'm saying like, if you have an opportunity to play a new version of the game and you go back, it's not easy. Like playing super mario brothers one, it's hard because of the d-pad and, like jumping, the mechanic is different. We've been trained for so long with the greatest xbox controllers ever and the shitty playstation controllers that like that was uncalled for.

Speaker 2:

Penalty box for marcus five minute major but my point is the it like the pressure sensors in the controllers, and the way platforming happens now is different than back in the day and it it feels different.

Speaker 1:

Can I take that idea and raise you one, Marcus Sure?

Speaker 2:

Throw the chip in.

Speaker 1:

I can't believe we just did gambling lingo on my show Wait.

Speaker 2:

So Stop what Our show. Wait, stop what Our show.

Speaker 1:

That's a good correction. I accept everything you just did, marcus, and I apologize. I actually prefer Super Mario Brothers 1 and 3 from the NES to playing the new Super Mario Brothers games that launched on the Wii and the Wii U and you can play them on the Switch now. It feels to me like both Mario and Luigi are on skates in a very icy world in those newer games and all of my instincts for how to control Mario and Luigi on those older games like they slide, like they slide different, they stop different, they jump different heights and the mechanics of keeping them alive to me feel better than whatever they've done to transform and update it for modern console and modern game player sensibilities.

Speaker 2:

Did you ever play Mario Wonder For 30 minutes?

Speaker 1:

yes, it's so good, I agree. Did you ever play Mario Wonder For 30 minutes? Yes, it's so good, I agree. I still only played it for 30 minutes. Then that wasn't that good. There was a lot going on in my life at the time. It's one of those games that's a casualty of me trying to become an author. And I did become an author, you did, I didn, you did. I didn't know that. Yeah, what's?

Speaker 2:

your book called you're being so ridiculous the gamer's journey, thank you, but I didn't play.

Speaker 1:

I didn't play super mario brothers wonder because I was buried by where the book was at the time. So it's one of those games where I own it. I know I own it. I know it's there waiting for me. I never I same thing. Same exact thing happened to astrobot for me, marcus, I need to make time to play astrobot and so why don't you play it? You stream, just put it on because of the thing like how many people want to who gives a shit?

Speaker 2:

astrobots? Time is over. Who cares not?

Speaker 1:

every game is john cena and can say their time is now for 20 years why not?

Speaker 2:

it's your game for right now. If people don't listen, if people don't come to watch you play astrobot, then that's their loss. That is true it would.

Speaker 2:

You can't stream a game just because you're afraid somebody's not going to show up. If somebody doesn't want to watch, you play Astro Bot, which is going to take you two streams to beat or three streams to beat, like who cares? Play for you, man. Like all the big streamers and content creators, they play whatever the hell they want and you come if you come. If you don't, then don't. And is it really going to hurt you if 50 people don't come because they don't want to watch you do you get? Ah, see, this is where I get down and dirty. You're. Are you getting paid more money if 50 people are watching you or 100 people are watching you? No, it's you. Play it for you because you want to play it. I challenge you to play it marcus.

Speaker 1:

Then the question becomes do I actually want to play Astro Bot?

Speaker 2:

I think you just did, because you just made a face and you were like cringing I just need to make time. So either you're talking bullshit to yourself or you actually want to play the game.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh. So now we have this amazing topic on the table of without Dr Gamology, who is Daniel? Right? That is such a big part of this conversation of why haven't you played Astro Bot?

Speaker 2:

No, it's not, it's just your, your. I understand you have the streamer viewer worry. If I'm not playing the game that people are used to me playing, are they going to watch me? But you got to just do it because if you don't, you'll never play a game and you're going to get into the prison trap like I got into. You know, what I'm saying.

Speaker 1:

You're the ghost of Christmas future, trying to save me from myself.

Speaker 2:

And how about this? How about if you stream Astro Bot and you make it a mental health thing and you like find out what the hype is about and like how it makes you feel, because I'm sure there's some spots of that game that are difficult and you talk about that, it could be a great mental health minute or moment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I need to get back to doing those dependably, like predictably too. I just have dropped that as a feature.

Speaker 2:

But that's okay, you don't need to. But my point is you should play the game you want, especially an astrobot. An astrobot's, not an mmo. That's going to take you 90 hours. You're going to play astrobot. You're going to play 5, 10, 15 hours, whatever that may be, and it's over and you, I played astrobot, and then you're back to your regularly scheduled program or maybe you move on to Detroit, become Human or some other mental health game. You know what I mean. Like you got to just do it, because if you don't do it, you're going to always have that game in the background that you want to play but you won't.

Speaker 1:

Like Mass Effect. Oh it's so good. I know it's so good, but I'm in the same boat right, oh, it's so good.

Speaker 2:

I know it's so good, but I'm in the same boat, right? So I bought the Mass Effect Legendary Edition and Mass Effect 2 is, hands down, my favorite game. It took me years to come to that conclusion. Mass Effect 2 is my favorite game of all time and I want to play Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3. I know how many hours it's going to take. I probably won't finish it. But I don't even want to play a game unless I'm playing Elden Ring, because I don't want to quit Elden Ring.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I also need to finish the Shadow of the Erd Tree. Since our last episode I did complete Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. So as far as things that I want to do in my gaming life, I'm making progress. As far as things I'm doing in my professional life, I'm making progress. It's just a process.

Speaker 2:

And speaking of Final Fantasy Rebirth, I saw the Final Fantasy Orchestra play in. Boston. Oh man, I'm so jealous it's coming to Tampa, you better go Buy your tickets.

Speaker 1:

It's.

Speaker 2:

Final Fantasy 16 and Final Fantasy 14 mixed. That's going to be rad, but anyway, it was so cool how they did all of they had I'm going to call it like a melody where it's like a bunch of different like terrain, like riding the chocobos through and all that chocobo music, and then like battle scenes and like the seth aroth fight and it was wild and it was so on a ps1. I have not played the final fantasy. I started remake again. It's on the playstation 5 and I can't sit down to play it because elden ring is still there and it's bothering me and at the same time it's hard for me to turn Elden Ring on because I know I'm just going to die and get frustrated. Oh, you're deadlocked. Yeah, it's just the way it goes. It's the way the cookie crumbles.

Speaker 2:

Have you tried rolling.

Speaker 1:

I get that a lot, I get that a lot, I get that a lot, but now it's talking to myself, because I don't stream for an audience anymore and have that extra weight on my shoulders. Yeah, that's true. It's a whole other level of holding it together. If you need to do it in front of the people, if you let the people feel that is an extra weight, which I don't think I had. That on sunday. It just felt like having friends that wanted to see me get there.

Speaker 1:

It was really nice that's not elden ring, though, but the difficulty made it feel like an elden ring fight for sure, but that's because of who you are.

Speaker 2:

Me people know that I get cranked up and I oh, that game makes me mad. Funny elden ring story is I went and somebody's I haven't. I don't use summons, everybody's. Do you have the mimicked here? I'm like, oh, yeah, I beat the mimic. They're like no, that's not how you get the mimicked here. Oh, how do you get the mimic tier, show me. And I went online, opened up my live on Discord and I showed them. They're like yeah, you don't have the mimic tier. Oh, how do you get it? You got to go do this and this. I thought I did that. Nope, you got to go back and I'm like listen, I've done this without a summon all this way. I don't know if I want to cheat.

Speaker 1:

It's not cheating, Marcus.

Speaker 2:

I beat Margit and Godric with summons and I felt like I didn't. I just stood in the back and didn't have to do shit have to do shit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's because when you raid, you're not a dps and you don't see how valuable it is to be able to stand in the back and do your damage from range like that but I don't have range, I use a sword then you don't know what it's like for someone else to be your tank.

Speaker 1:

yes, marcus, all the boss fights that we beat in Star Wars, the Old Republic I never once had the thought of man, I'm such a lame-ass Sith sorcerer. I only won that because the boss was looking at Marcus the whole time. Oh wait, because it wasn't looking at Marcus the whole time, because I was pulling the boss off of him.

Speaker 2:

Ah, Maybe in the beginning, at the beginning, until I got good.

Speaker 1:

You remember when the other tank got really upset at me for having my opener down.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, do you remember it took us months to beat a hard mode boss?

Speaker 1:

I do remember that Dread Fortress man months to beat a hard mode boss.

Speaker 2:

I do remember that dread fortress man. Dread fortress, yeah he, you are not allowed to win marcus he collects his toll in blood, blood worse if you didn't play that mmo.

Speaker 2:

The last 45 seconds went over your head, but that's okay, I'm fine with that yeah, but if you have, if you play mmos and you haven't played star wars, the old republic, you're doing yourself really a disservice. Download the game and play it, because it is actually unbelievable and you do get so much stuff for free. I'm being really honest and transparent. Whether I play it a lot now or not, I played this shit out of that game for a long time. Doc wrote a dissertation about it. It's that good brought to you by broad sword entertainment. This episode is hey, that's okay. I love jackie, love musco, and papa keith is awesome, like the team.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know thank everyone for your support over there for my dissertation.

Speaker 1:

My professors were in awe of that. I was so over the moon when those numbers started coming in, and that's because of you and Tio deciding there's something in me that's worth saying yeah, help this guy out. And you helped me also begin my podcaster journey, and the gaming persona exists and is what it is because of the three years that I was on a teeny cast. There is no way to slice that a different way. It's true, and you have been one of my very best friends and I hope you hear this episode someday, but if you don't, everything I said is still true.

Speaker 2:

Continue the journey.

People on this episode

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Daniel Kaufmann

Host
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MarcusB814

Co-host