The Gaming Persona

Finding Your Gaming Time Is Just as Important as Finding Your Professional Time

• Daniel Kaufmann Ph.D. | Dr. Gameology • Season 5 • Episode 11

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We dive into the pricing controversy of the Nintendo Switch 2 and debate whether $80 games are excessive or simply keeping up with inflation. Marcus shares his exciting progress in Elden Ring, reaching Crumbling Farum Azula after defeating the Fire Giant.

• Nintendo Switch 2 announced at $450 standalone or $499 with Mario Kart World
• Game prices rising to $80 for Switch 2 titles
• Marcus reaches endgame content in Elden Ring after defeating the Fire Giant
• FromSoftware's new game Duskbloods looks like a spiritual successor to Bloodborne
• Dr. Gamology explains how sports betting has ruined his enjoyment of sporting events
• Both hosts share their personal application of "Mamba Mentality" to gaming and professional lives
• Morning productivity versus late-night gaming sessions as personal optimization strategies
• Discussion of gaming addiction versus intentional gaming time
• The value of video games as spaces for heroism and meaningful challenge

Join us next week as we continue exploring the intersection of gaming and personal growth!


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Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast. This is the show that explores who we become when we play games, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just vibing in cozy indie worlds. Join me, dr Gamology and my good friend Marcus as we search for all the ways gaming and personal growth collide. Grab your controllers and let's continue the journey Now.

Speaker 2:

Dude I'm. So I know you asked me a really good question today and it really got me using my brain and like thinking about things, but I'm actually a little like Heated not heated, heated is the wrong word like almost like who do they think they are kind of a situation right now with nintendo? Me and nintendo are not in like the greatest relationship right now oh, you're sleeping on the couch, marcus with nintendo. Yeah, I'm a little, I'm a little heated all right.

Speaker 1:

Well, let's do it. What's okay? What's wrong with you?

Speaker 2:

So did you watch the Nintendo Direct?

Speaker 1:

No, because I was not at home yesterday. I actually it's kind of muddy. I don't think I'm allowed to talk on air about where I was yesterday. So let's just NDA that I was not able to watch this.

Speaker 2:

But did you rewatch it?

Speaker 1:

No, I'm not. I don't care Like they hijacked my birthday. That's all I know.

Speaker 2:

Yesterday was your birthday.

Speaker 1:

No, June 5th is those jerks. Everyone in the world is going to be killing each other over the five switch twos that they have on the shelves. Bro, I got in acknowledging me and my greatness on the island of relevancy well, the island in wwe 2k25 is actually really fun anyway. The island of micro transactions that's a different thing altogether. Yes, did you buy 18 crocs in the island mode, marcus?

Speaker 2:

you don't want your no, oh, alright, so uh gaming.

Speaker 1:

We're throwing too many topics at our audience right now we gotta settle down.

Speaker 2:

Are you drinking a Red Bull? No, I'm drinking a lemonade oh okay, I was gonna say you're fucking hardcore if you're drinking a Red Bull at 9 o'clock at night no, I'm drinking a Mike's Hard nine o'clock at night.

Speaker 1:

No, I'm drinking a mike's hard lemonade.

Speaker 2:

It's strawberry flavored I am so proud. I was actually gonna bring it up to everybody in the gaming persona community to call out doc and tell him he has to have a drink with the next podcast, but he is. I'm having a beer.

Speaker 1:

Actually, I have three here I had nine webcam related things yesterday and that's with me missing my Twitch stream because I was overbooked this morning. That happens.

Speaker 2:

You're a busy guy.

Speaker 1:

I am, I look jacked in this shirt. Yeah, you look great.

Speaker 2:

I look jacked, anyway, with a big belly, but anyway, moving on, okay, so here's the premise. I'm going to give the uber positive thing and I'm going to make a claim I have to be Elden Ring by 2026 because Duskbloods looks sick. Okay, have you seen the trailer? Nope? Okay, you need to go watch that.

Speaker 1:

Right now it's basically Bloodborne 2, but they can't use the name bloodborne because of international copyright oh yeah, I did see all the memes about that, with people overreacting and being like finally bloodborne 2, and then the name changes it's like still bloodborne 2 yeah, but like you need to watch that trailer.

Speaker 2:

It's sick because I'm gonna dive into it. Because like this is this is where my relationship with nintendo right now is struggling. I'm on the nintendo struggle bus that um.

Speaker 1:

Carving on his hand looks painful, I would not be down for.

Speaker 2:

But he's becoming Blade Blade. Yeah, he's going to be a vampire.

Speaker 1:

Oh.

Speaker 2:

I don't actually know that, but it sounds really good From software.

Speaker 1:

Oh, it's got like a train and stuff, so that right there is already different than demon souls and elden ring and dark souls. I never played bloodborne, though, so this feels very castlevania-esque to me well, yeah, I never played bloodborne either.

Speaker 2:

I have it, it's right here, never been opened oh wow, you should open it.

Speaker 1:

You should know it not, is?

Speaker 2:

um? They say that this is the Peggy, this is the Euro version. Um, I might never open it, man. Do you know how much this will be worth someday if I don't open it, because I can just get it digitally? Do you have PlayStation Plus? Yeah, is that the online PlayStation?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's how I got my Bloodborne on my PlayStation account.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if it's always available that way or if it was a monthly thing. I don't know. I don't know either.

Speaker 2:

Oh, he just threw shadows on the ground and it became another person yeah, dude, well no, so it's a co-op multiplayer pvp e v e game.

Speaker 1:

So it's from day one, me and you can co-op the game that's the way I see it will the damage and health of the enemy scale for two people, so that it's the same amount of difficulty I would imagine it's from soft yeah, they're not gonna. They're not gonna let two people go in there and the enemies have the same amount of health, right, because then people just win the game that way I want to win your game that way you're not carrying me, marcus, I'm your.

Speaker 2:

I'm sam, wise in this, I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you so what I like to say, it like showed, like, like it seems like there's you're gonna be able to ride a train into like a like a castlevania-esque, like a final City, you know what I mean. And some of the moves and it shows, believe it or not, the dancer, for me, looks really cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, did you finish it. Yeah, it looked cool. Yeah, I did so exclusive for the Nintendo. Switch.

Speaker 2:

Yep Switch 2. So Switch 2 is $499.

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And if that's with Mario Kart, Right, If you get the standalone, it's $450. To me now, like I'm being real, that is, I expect that if they're going to be giving us up-to-date graphics where you don't care about that. But I do like, when this original Switch came out, it was still like it was using technology from 10 years ago. They're saying that we haven't gotten the specs. They're saying that the specs in this are current gen. So if that's the case, I can understand the price stack With me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Okay, here's where I'm not down with the sickness. They're saying the games are going to be 80 bucks.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you have a problem with that.

Speaker 2:

I kind of do.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Why I have a problem that games are 70 bucks you have a problem with that yeah I have a really hard time buying a 70 game really, yeah, you know this is.

Speaker 1:

This is potentially a very dangerous conversation for us to have.

Speaker 2:

Well, no, if you know it shouldn't be. What I'm saying is is okay, so I'm going to. I'm going to play both sides of the coin. I understand studios have to pay their employees more, so in turn they need to charge more for the game. Right, Right. But for years now you have had base game, let's say, $60, digital deluxe, or like the middle of the road, is either 90 or $100. And then you have the ultimate edition, which is $120, right, $120. Right. So if you really, really really care about the game and you want the Collectors or you want the Roman Reigns cover or you want Unlocked all the seasons ahead of time, you buy the $120 one because you're going to buy it anyways. Got it, Got it. But something in the back of my head says $80 for a base game. It seems out of control.

Speaker 1:

I think what Nintendo is saying here is any game on the switch to is automatically not a base game. They're saying the switch is where, automatically not a base game. They're saying the Switch is where you play the base games and these are where you play the big boy games. We'll see.

Speaker 2:

And you might be right. You might be right, but I will say that the size comparison of the Switch 2 versus the Switch 1 is fucking awesome. A couple things that I. The thing about nintendo is the switch isn't gonna suck when it ships right. You're not gonna worry about red ring of death. You're not gonna worry about the fans blowing up the playstation. You know what I mean. Like in the early iterations of the playstation 4 there were fan issues, blah, blah, blah. The switch is. I look at the switch is coming out like nintendo's products usually come out bulletproof yeah, their.

Speaker 1:

Their quality assurance is the best in gaming, quite possibly I don't even know if I need to qualify it with.

Speaker 2:

Quite possibly their, their stuff works yeah, it's like the old apple products, it just works, but anyway. So for me, like the system being fought, 450 bucks. I'm just talking about the base system. I'm fine with that. Everything costs money, right, like my a graphics card. If I buy the new graphics card I want it's two thousand dollars, right, just for the graphics card. So so for me, I understand what they're doing and you get a playstation 5 for 500 bucks, right, yeah or no? 400. Digital no 400. Digital Edition is 400. Disc version is 500. Pro is 700. Got it. Xbox Series X is 500. So, like they're keeping up with the times, because I guarantee the next Xbox or the next PlayStation are going to be $700.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right, but it brings me back to the game price $80.

Speaker 1:

It's just Okay. So I know I have time to cook tonight, marcus, because meetings and supervision and teaching class and all the things Dr Gamology does to keep the lights on and the bills paid Right. So, and teaching class and all the things Dr Gamology does to keep the lights on and the bills paid right. So during a very quick break I just threw out there to my wife. We didn't grocery shop for Thursday night, so sorry, order whatever you're craving and just I trust you. You know what my diet and what I need to eat, so just pick me something, it'll be fine. I can eat 630 to seven. She's like I got you. And I bet you, if I went into my banking app right now and I looked at the last door dash for three people from our favorite Chinese place down the street With delivery, with the $2.99 for them to drive it straight to me, with the three entrees and the crab rangoon and some egg rolls, I bet you we pay DoorDash $78.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to go closer to $100.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, I'm going to just for the sake of science.

Speaker 2:

Okay, are we?

Speaker 1:

going to do prices right rules. Yeah, knock yourself out, Marcus.

Speaker 2:

All right, I don't want to knock myself out, then you won't have a co-host.

Speaker 1:

Well temporarily.

Speaker 2:

You'll eventually wake up.

Speaker 1:

It's not like a Gunther headlock. Oh, we just threw back to last week. We're pros. Okay, it was $58,. Marcus, okay, you know I'm a family of three, though If we were the traditional like, leave it to beaver. Family of four kind of yeah, like you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I bet you you would have hit like 75 to $80 right there. My point is is the switch to, in the grand scheme of things, that you're going to enjoy for more than 14 hours while you digest it and then it comes out looking like everything else does Right? Did you just go there? Yeah, your switch to is going to stay with you a long time, nourishing your entertainment needs and making your cerebral cortex light up in dopamine firework displays that cannot even be fathomed right now by our switch one minds. I think people get so upset over money leaving their life. But money comes into your life so it can leave you and you die and you don't take any of it with you. So, like you should not change the way you see the world because of the price of eggs or gas or switch to games, because if you do, you're a jackass.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to come back to this. So for me it's more of like when, when it's a hard pill for me to swallow. That's what it pretty much comes down to, and it's a me problem, right? It's not an anybody else problem. I feel like they could have left how much the games cost out and they could have just been like hey, switch 2 is $450. Wait a little while and then start talking about the pricing of games, dropping it all at once. I understand your point, but how about this? I am less likely to buy two games on launch than one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because you're looking at that like two games is $160.

Speaker 2:

Plus tax yeah.

Speaker 1:

Also, it is really dumb to buy the console only in this situation. Just get the $500 version that gives you Mario Kart World.

Speaker 2:

So, if you can get it right. So I remember when the Xbox 360 came out and there was a bundle with maybe it was Halo I can't remember what game was coming Halo 3, maybe I forget what the game was and you could either get the console version or you could get the bundle. But the bundle, like we said, was like $80 more because it came with an extra controller and a game I forget what it was on launch. But anyway, all that was left was the bundle because people didn't have the money to buy it all. So for me I don't mind, but I do have a friend who told me if I want the pre-order list, he'll put me on it right away.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so nice, Marcus.

Speaker 2:

See, the dilemma is, if I buy it, it's instantly becoming my son's. I'll be able to play it once in a while, but it ain't going to be mine.

Speaker 1:

You got to do like daily time checkout list and yeah, I'll be winning.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when he goes to bed share. But the only the real reason I really want this switch to is because I really want visions of mana to come out on the switch, because I beat trials of mana on the switch, um, and I loved it. Visions of mana is the second game and it came out, but it's not on the switch, it's on the playstation and the xbox and stuff and I don't won't play it because, like I loved playing a level in my bedroom oh yeah you know, they have solutions for that.

Speaker 1:

You could put a playstation 5 in your bedroom. It's not the same.

Speaker 2:

You get playstation portal no, I like sitting there with my little nintendo switch and playing my game and then I just get to a save point, fall asleep, shut it off and move on.

Speaker 1:

But if you have playstation portal you could do that. But with game lag, how much? Because your wi-fi won't be able to keep up with your your streaming image on the portal you know I tried to stream elden ring this week.

Speaker 2:

I was so excited and I was just getting crazy frame rate drops. I actually have to delete stream labs off my computer and reinstall it because it won't update I had to switch to obs because of that.

Speaker 1:

It got to the point where stream labs was taking so many uh system resources away from what needs to go out to the public and all the troubleshooting that I did. The solution that was recommended. The easiest solution was use OBS, not Streamlabs, but they have created a plugin to work well together where you have Streamlabs in the menu of OBS now. So it's a good time to start dabbling in OBS.

Speaker 2:

For the amount of streaming that I'm going to do. I'm just going to delete Streamlabs and reinstall it Because that to me and if it doesn't fix the problem, like I had a problem where if I updated my graphics driver when I was playing Destiny, it would lag, so I could never update my driver in streamlapse. It was weird yeah, but either way I rambled, but anyways, I was so excited is a difficult hobby.

Speaker 1:

It it's like a house of cards. You just move one little thing and it all falls apart, and then your whole, the way you saw your morning or evening, is ruined.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, well, I wanted to stream because I was fighting the fire giant. So I'm finally at a point in this game where I'm like, committed, I'm gonnaoped my ass and I was like man, I don't know did he step on you and crunch you or roll on you I? Don't know, he lit me on fire a lot oh yeah, you should not be on fire, marcus no anyway.

Speaker 2:

So I was excited, so I decided to stream it and it failed. But then I did it in Discord and my point is that I killed the boss oh good, I killed the fire giant. And then I got to a point in the game where I got a real cutscene Not like a boss cut scene and like, yeah, and like it, this gate, like it's it. This was the I call this the cut scene of saying hey, welcome to the end game. You know what I mean. It's not the actual end end game, but like it's not the point of no return end game. But this is like. This is like hey, you've made it this far, gotta go. Good luck, see you on the other side.

Speaker 1:

Are you a crumbling Faram Azula now?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was just going to say that, yep.

Speaker 1:

Cause we talked about that last week and you didn't know. And now you're there. I'm so proud of you, Marcus.

Speaker 2:

So I, um I'm in the crumbling pharma azula or whatever it's called, and I just got to a second or third sight of grace. Um, I'm just exploring things and like kind of like finding things, I'm taking my time. Um, is it weird that I don't kill the dragons? Like fighting the dragons? I have no interest in killing the dragons.

Speaker 1:

You don't want to fight Plessudisax.

Speaker 2:

No.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, he's one of the best dragons, though, cause you gotta you gotta sleep in your grave and wake up thousands of years in the past before he died, uh.

Speaker 2:

I.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if I so when you're when you're going, you're going through, I believe, the capital, llandell capital, or whatever. I believe the bones that you climb up to get into the castle are that dragon's bones or something like that oh, that's interesting you're traveling into the past to fight that dragon when it was alive, or something.

Speaker 2:

I didn't kill it Anyway, like I think, the only dragon.

Speaker 1:

I think I've killed in the whole game is Lim Graves. Okay, Well, I like fighting the dragons, but then again I'm ranged in magic and do not have to spend as much time underneath their feet as you do.

Speaker 2:

Right, I'm also so. Anyway, I got lost. I found my way back. I was on like this balcony and I can see like the white fog. Now I don't know who my boss is. I usually will watch like videos of people playing the game after I've done it. You know what I mean, but I know there's. I know I'm coming up to a boss. I hope it is not. Oh, did I talk about what happened to me last week with you?

Speaker 1:

I don't know, Marcus, but if you search your feelings, you know who you're about to fight. I think so, because you're my co-host on the gaming persona.

Speaker 2:

Well so I last week I got into a cave in I forget where I was the mountaintops of the giants, and they have these God skin mofos. Yeah, more of those, yep, every week I was God skin mofos.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, god skins More of those Yep Every week. You and God skins.

Speaker 2:

Yep. So this week I was there and I was with Doc and he was watching and I didn't beat it because there was one of them. Well, I woke up at like four in the morning because I couldn't sleep, because I just wanted to beat him and I came in here, turned on my computer and I beat the first God skin noble, mother trucker. I beat the Godskin Noble. In a second one, the fat one appeared. I was like mother fudger, I was so mad. I was like I feel deceived. But here's the problem.

Speaker 2:

I know, because of Doc playing this game, that there's a time where I'm going to have to fight two of those at once and, if I remember correctly, I don't know when it comes, but I know it's coming.

Speaker 1:

but you have to kill each of them twice. Yes, that's true.

Speaker 2:

So you essentially have to fight them four, four of them in one boss fight.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

How in the F am I going to handle that if I can't handle two?

Speaker 1:

You're going to hold up a bell right here and you're going to go ding, ding, and then solo Sako is going to come out and spike them in the throat. Oh God, bloodline rules, marcus.

Speaker 2:

Bloodline rules, anyway, moving on. So I'm in crumbling farm Azula, but then I know there's a boss. There's a boss. I want to say it's mega death, not mega death. Oh my god, malacath millennia and the elden lord guy yeah. Those are my bosses that are left.

Speaker 1:

Yep, you got Horalu.

Speaker 2:

Who's that?

Speaker 1:

He's like Hulk Hogan with a lion.

Speaker 2:

That's Malekith.

Speaker 1:

No, Malekith is something else. He's just got a big black sword. Oh no, Horalu is at the base of the Erd tree after crumbling Faramizula.

Speaker 2:

I don't even know what you're talking about, but it sounds scary.

Speaker 1:

It's fun. You have some great moments left to experience. I'm really excited that we're doing this show when you decided to do this instead of you just being the game years ago, when you were doing Working Class Nerds, which would have been great. But I'm glad that I'm here talking to you about it.

Speaker 2:

I just feel really lucky Because I'm in a place where it's actually like this is where this is the end game. I'm fighting real, like it's actually like this is where this is the end game. I'm fighting real, like there's no more easy bosses that I'm going to, there's no more easy bosses that I'm going to just walk all over.

Speaker 1:

You might surprise yourself with some of them, though, maybe not, maybe, not, maybe not. It'll be easier to take down some of these bosses than it will be to spend $80 on a switch to game truth.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, that's a that's. I just rambled for like a half an hour. Doc, what is your next game? You're really gonna play that's a tough question.

Speaker 1:

I did pick up dragon's dogma 2 over this past week. It was on the spring sale on the playstation store and I've wanted that game for about a year and so I saw the price. I was like that's perfect for me. I'm gonna pick it up. I don't know when I'm gonna play it, but it's in my playstation account now.

Speaker 2:

Um how much was it?

Speaker 1:

30, I think, or maybe maybe it was 20, it was either. I I don't remember. But when a full price game hits that I'm good. That's a big discount. When you're talking a $70 game.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, for sure, if it's a game that you want to play, but it's not the important game that you get on launch.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean? Then, yes, that's when you scoop it up. That's why I love the Steam sales and stuff.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, steam has thrown a lot of emails my way and it's been tough to not react to them, because every day you just get four or five games on your wishlist that are heavily discounted. So Steam is a great way to save money and still get to play a ton of games. So for me, I might look into streaming. Uh, I have options. Right, I have monster hunter and and assassin's creed. But here's the thing, marcus, I have my research partner, dr stephanie diaz is is a lifelong fan, like her favorite game franchise is Monster Hunter, and we have talked about doing writing projects together that would focus on Monster Hunter either more research, like what I've done with Sotor and Final Fantasy and honestly, it looks like the setup of the game is perfect for that kind of research. You have character creation and you have an end game, so for me, there are some professional incentives for me to figure out how to love that franchise well, I guess I'm sorry I should have.

Speaker 2:

Before I said meh, I should have said you should ask dr diaz um which monster hunter she suggests you play first.

Speaker 1:

That's a good thing to bring up too, cause my most popular social posts of all time was me shooting my mouth off after five hours of monster hunter and saying I don't think this is the best one to play because I have no idea what the heck is going on. And I'm a new player and then all the old school players that know how to do everything already are like this is the easiest one to play. It's like you don't, like you think that you have this right in your head but you're actually backwards on this. I'm the one who gets to comment on how easy the new one is to pick up as their first game.

Speaker 1:

For sure who gets to comment on how easy the new one is to pick up as their first game? For sure, because, because you've played all 12 games in this franchise since day one, you are perfect at this game. You know what you're looking for. You don't need the tutorials and you instantly know how to take down monsters just by looking at them right right, so that was fun for a week.

Speaker 1:

To get criticized on social media as a noob um I still I. I. I feel like that conversation was actually good for me, because I learned a lot more about gaming communities. I usually don't I'm not the one who is open to get dunked on, you know, so that was fun wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2:

You did savage and nightmare raiding in MMOs.

Speaker 1:

You got dunked on every night yeah, that's true, because that was before I developed the self respect for me to tell a game company you don't get to decide how I enjoy this game.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I've ever asked this what's your favorite? Who's your favorite basketball team?

Speaker 1:

You're going to hate me, marcus, if you say the fucking Lakers.

Speaker 2:

I'm hitting the. Oh, I don't control the end button.

Speaker 1:

You don't control the end button. You don't control the end button and you already knew the answer to that question before I answer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're a Celtics fan.

Speaker 1:

I am not a Celtics fan. I find Kevin Garnett to be a little bit hard to to deal with.

Speaker 2:

He's not wait. Kevin Garnett isn't even a Celtic anymore.

Speaker 1:

But he was when I was actually watching the NBA Okay, the Los Angeles Lakers, but you know that that is not because of this era, because I'm not watching sports anymore, because they're all about gambling and I can't enjoy it. My era is Shaq and Kobe can't enjoy it. My era is Shaq and Kobe. Wait a minute.

Speaker 2:

Stop.

Speaker 1:

For a second.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, are you like? You can't enjoy watching a baseball game or a hockey game or a basketball game, because all you can think about is the people that are gambling on it no, it's not the people they're gambling on.

Speaker 1:

It's actually the way the game is commented on and the way the ads run and the way the. I used to love the analysis shows in the morning like ESPN First Take, yeah. And what has happened over time since the legalization of sports betting? Also, I'm going to give myself a rub here. I am the former president of the International Gambling Counselor Certification Board, so that is the seat I'm sitting in when I say this. I used to love sports and consume them in different ways every day. I've listened to part in the interruption.

Speaker 2:

Well, I used to love that show.

Speaker 1:

Hundreds and hundreds of days driving home from work. I used to do that as a podcast or stream it on the ESPN plus app every day on my drive home from work. I love Will Bond, you know. I love Tony Kornheiser. I just think they're great to listen to. But what has happened over time is, instead of talking about how great it is that the Lakers won a game, the commentary has shifted to where it's so unfortunate that they only won the game by three, because that is lower than the, whatever it's called. That would cause people who bet $1,000 to gain $5,000. The line right. So they're not talking about how good it is for the Lakers to have a 42 and 37 record and be like middle of the pack in the Western Conference. They're talking about how often the Lakers enable people who gamble to make profits in their bets. They don't care if LeBron James got a triple double. They care if he got 31 points on a night where he was projected 30 and a half.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And because of that, they're not talking about the sport, they're not talking about the competition and they're not talking about the history of the game. They're talking about, you know, johnny Sadface in Connecticut, who put $712, when his savings had 713, on LeBron James to break that line and when he only gets 29 points, that sad sucker has to sell his car for a $20 bill so he can get a Big Mac. And it's devastating. Because these are millionaires, their lives are set. They're there to entertain instead of being entertained by them.

Speaker 2:

We have to infuse our experience of joy with self-suffering just so that we can feel something, because society is all about being numb now I, I just like it when somebody takes a slap shot and scores, or somebody scores a touchdown or like shoots a three pointer, or the halftime half court buzzer beater. But I'm different, like I don't gamble, like that's just not for me.

Speaker 1:

Also, you're not a mental health counselor.

Speaker 2:

That's right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, do every client that I have worked with, especially since starting to be more specialized and less general. Parts of their stories live inside me and I hurt whenever these games remind me of their pain and all I hear in the commentary is their pain. And so I don't watch sports anymore and it's sad because sometimes I miss it. Like I can still watch the Super Bowl, especially if the Rams are in it. Like I grew up close to St louis, even though they went back to la, I still like that team. I like the colors yeah, I get it feels good to me.

Speaker 1:

Um, you know, same with the cardinals right. I like the st louis it's like the.

Speaker 2:

It's like the old charlotte hornets starter jackets. They were on fire because of the green and purple yeah, I love that the hornets are back.

Speaker 1:

Uh, when they were the bobcats it was just sad um thanks, marcus you're welcome now that being said. That being said, I feel like you know why does doc like the la lakers? I will answer that question mark. It's very good question because wait.

Speaker 2:

Can I first answer it?

Speaker 1:

because yeah, he suck no Cause Okay. So, believe it or not, I was always interested in psychology and philosophy because those are like yeah, always no way. Yeah, so my original plan when I was in elementary school was I was going to be an astronaut or an NBA player. I realized neither one of those were going to pan out, so I started liking psychology at the age of like 10.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

All right, phil Jackson had a segment on the Chicago station that did all the Chicago Bulls stuff.

Speaker 2:

And I grew up in Illinois.

Speaker 1:

It was called philosophically speaking, because he's Phil right, and so I learned what philosophical means and it's related to philosophy. So then I started reading things like the philosophy of Star Wars and the philosophy of Lord of the Rings and the philosophy of Harry Potter and just like taking all the things I loved and learning about philosophy in it. And this is like when I'm 14 years old, and so I grew up watching the Chicago Bulls destroy everybody. Yeah Right, because when they were losing to the Pistons I was too young to really follow sports. But as soon as I got to the point where I have memories Bulls beat Lakers, bulls beat Blazers, bulls beat Suns. And then Michael Jordan comes back Bulls beat the Sonics, bulls beat the Jazz, bulls beat the Jazz.

Speaker 1:

And then I moved to Florida. Michael Jordan retires, phil Jackson coaches the Lakers. So in order for me to keep my philosophical speaking enjoyment of the National Basketball Association, I also went in spirit with Phil Jackson to California, because as soon as I moved to Florida, shaq went to California. I was like what the heck? I was going to love the magic. What are you doing? I get it.

Speaker 1:

It worked and I ended up being a Lakers fan. This has nothing to do with video games unless we're playing.

Speaker 2:

NBA 2K25. I love the fact that the gaming persona has grown in its state where we can go on sidebars and come back to video games.

Speaker 1:

Well, Marcus, we didn't even get to the Mamba mentality.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's going to lead us into the question, because that has something to do with me.

Speaker 1:

So, so when I was a doc student and it was time to start working on my dissertation, I had to have a major behavioral change. That actually is still with me this day, every single morning. And there was an interview where people were talking about Kobe Bryant as a teammate on the Olympics team and how they were shocked because they're just waking up after partying and doing this, that and whatever they pass Kobe and he's just like finishing his second workout of the day and it's like 8 30 AM. It's like when was your first workout between four and five?

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And so I was just like Whoa, I'm always so tired when I get home from work. I'm driving an hour one way to get to work. Anyway, I'm counseling all these people all day. My emotional energy is spent on them because I'm feeling for them and I have to let that go and it's not the right headspace for me to do my Star Wars, the Old Republic dissertation stuff. So I was just like when is the time where my brain is ready to do this? And it's like oh, 5 am, like Kobe and it was just a stupid idea I had. I was like I'm going to set my alarm for 5 am and see what happens. I wrote like three pages and then I showered and went to work and the whole day I was in the zone. I had two clients no-show me that day and I wrote three more pages. So I'm just like oh my gosh, my energy is the best in the morning which, by the way, I repeated that again on my push for Twitch partner. I was just like I don't stream in the evening.

Speaker 2:

I'm done in the evening.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I switched it to the morning and it worked and people came to me and had fun and talk to me like so I owe a lot um to when I read the Mamba Mentality book for the first time, but also just hearing that interview and really getting into what it's like to have an extreme work ethic that people cannot match, and that has been my goal. A lot of my professional life is just to get where I want to go by pushing myself that way. But I'm curious what you have to say, because you are always such a Celtics fan that when I mentioned Mamba mentality you said that has to do with you. And now the question marks are spinning around my head and I have to know.

Speaker 2:

So it kind of the same story, but opposite times, right? So I it's. I'm two years into not working for myself. Ever since I met doc. I worked for myself Like doc and I would have the most epic hour long conversations while I was working in my shop and he was grading papers.

Speaker 1:

Like yeah, he's your buzz sawing and I'm just clicking grade rubrics and we and like we wouldn't every day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, every day and for months and like there would be times where him and I wouldn't even speak to each other for five or six minutes because we were both focused on whatever we were doing. But then we would pick right back up in our conversation and I was struggling mentally with I'm working 12, 16 hour days. It's a long time. I don't get to see my kids or my wife often, but I still need my gaming time because that's my time to succeed for me.

Speaker 1:

That's your therapy.

Speaker 2:

That's my therapy and it, like Kobe, I had to find a time and I had to say to myself okay, every day, at 9 PM, I am playing video games, I am setting that schedule, or three days a week, whatever that timeline was, but nine o'clock at night was my time and I would play video games from nine to 11, nine to 12. And I would sacrifice sleep. Yes, but I needed it for my own mental health to do it, because the days I didn't like, I was like eh, like a little like like I felt like I was tense, like you need to yeah Like like, like I'm getting electrocuted because I'm not playing, but it's, it's.

Speaker 2:

It's, it's like the Mamba mentality, but it's the lazy version, because I'm sitting to tell you right now, the time with your kids before they're out of diapers is a magical time, but it's also the hardest time of your life. Those kids cannot do anything on their own and it is struggle, bus, and then, when you're not home, a lot me and it's all on my wife. Literally I would come home and she was like here's the baby. You know what I mean. I need an hour and so, and I was happy to do it. The point I'm trying to make is I'm happy to do it. The point I'm trying to make is to get your to be able to do X like play Star Wars, the old Republic, play, play Destiny, play whatever that game is. And now you know I actually have less time than I ever have because my kids stay up later and all these things, but I'm still finding time to game oh, that's so nice.

Speaker 1:

I don't think I've played a video game in three days. I did a stream, onay, it was a short one because of my schedule. That's the last time I turned anything on, so sad uh, I played.

Speaker 2:

So my son is playing baseball so I bought. I bought mlb, the show, 23 show, yeah. So I got it for like 17 dollars. He doesn't know that it's old. I don't really care because I've never played it and it's been fun just playing three inning games against each other Instead of because it's basically we play Minecraft or WWE together and he doesn't understand the concept of a wrestling match. So he just punches me and kicks me the whole time. He never goes for a pin, he never tries to submit you the concept of a wrestling match so he just punches me and kicks me the whole time.

Speaker 1:

Uh, it's more, he never goes for a pin.

Speaker 2:

He never tries to submit you well he does, but it like, but the whole match is him just punching me. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

And it's like the button mashers in a fighting game oh yeah, so you don't really get much out of the match in terms of you get a star rating of one and a half.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

If you play that way, right.

Speaker 2:

And then he gets so mad. But the positive is we have a Gunther belt and a Cody Rhodes belt here, not the real ones of the kids, plastic ones and so every day or every other day we wrestle each other and we put a belt on the line. So right now I'm the world heavyweight champion and he's the Cody Rhodes champion. I put my belt up on the line a lot more than he does.

Speaker 2:

But I'm going to tell you guys, right now I fuck him up. We have this like big cushy, like Matt so competitive.

Speaker 1:

He's your tiny little kid Marcus.

Speaker 2:

Wait, do you know how hard that boy punches?

Speaker 1:

You told us last week actually.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, dude, he jumps off the top rope to does full Uso, splashes on me Like dude that kid is no joke, and he loves it. Dude, I'll power bomb him onto the big mat and he loves it.

Speaker 1:

I just love you're so competitive with him. It's fun to listen to.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's fun to listen to. Well it's, everybody doesn't get a trophy. And he needs to understand losing is okay and you can get it back. So like he'll win three matches and I'll win one, but that one I rub it in his face, but I put the belt in his face, I'm the champion, and he gets so mad. But like he knows that, like it's okay to lose, we're going to get it back. You know what I mean? Kind of a thing. It's one of those like it's life lessons, yeet, but anyway. So, doc, somebody asked you a question today, today, or was it yesterday?

Speaker 1:

it was today. Yeah, it was a really good one, it's so. This is community interaction right here. Shout out to it's apologetic, okay uh so it's like apologetic, but with nick at the end yeah, um, yeah. So they're listening to the gamer's journey on audible great choice.

Speaker 2:

It's a great book. If you guys haven't heard it, it's available anywhere you can buy a book. You should get it. And it's wrote, written not only the co-host of the show, but the man, the myth, the nightmare raider, dr gamology, aka formerly known as, like the artist formerly known as dr swotor yes, all of that is true, and I didn't even have to say it, which is fun we need a plug sound. We need a sound like every time there's a plug oh man, then we have to edit harder.

Speaker 1:

No, it needs to be like a.

Speaker 2:

It's like a sound bite that we can play through the thing like a soundboard and it just goes, I can figure it out.

Speaker 1:

So the question is they're going through a book also at the same time as listening to my book, that's on flow, and wondering if that book is consistent with my findings, which Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's work is a foundational work that led to me having the ideas that I had, and he actually gave me pointers on two of my research studies when he was still alive. So a little bit of collaboration from him and mentorship. So, yes, very consistent. So that's the easy question to answer here Is it consistent with psychological flow? Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

There's many tables and images in my book that explain flow from my perspective for gamers. And flow is really just when you balance your skill and your experience in the moment and you mentally merge with the game. It's a really nice feeling and I talk about it at experience, in the moment, and you mentally merge with the game. It's a really nice feeling and I talk about it at length in the book, a few different chapters. But the real question, marcus, and this one could be its whole episode, and maybe it will be, because I might read this question and then we feel like ending it and leaving people on a cliffhanger. We never know.

Speaker 1:

Here's the question Do I find that, while many people get scared about video game addiction, that most players who love games really do want more of a life than games, but they see games as something to help them out in the world that happens for them outside of playing the game? Yeah, so let me simplify that question, because the word game is in there a lot, it could get a little distracting. So people worry a lot about if we're playing video games and we're addicted to them. But if we're worried about that for someone, is that player actually wanting more in their life? Is that player actually wanting more in their life? But they're playing the game to figure out how to be ready for that thing in their life by using the skills that they use as game players.

Speaker 2:

I heard that completely different.

Speaker 1:

Okay, what did you hear?

Speaker 2:

I heard. Do you want, like when you're playing games, do you feel like you should be doing something else rather than playing games? That's the way I heard it, you know. So, okay, I'm gonna go back. I think about my time with star wars, the old republic, and how like I was obsessed with the game. And it's not that I was addicted to it, I just enjoyed playing it so much that any free time I had I wanted to play that game, and I didn't do certain things because I wanted to play that game, because I wanted to play that game. So I can see where somebody who loves the game as much as I loved SWOTOR wanting to say oh, I'd really like to go on a picnic or go out to Buffalo Wild Wings with my friends, but I'm raiding tonight. What if we get the clear tonight? So I can understand that side of that coin.

Speaker 1:

In addiction psychology there is a key word this is vocabulary here for everyone it's salience, and salience is basically when one enjoyable activity becomes more powerful than all other enjoyable activities that are similar in scope, to where you will never choose anything else, only that one.

Speaker 1:

And you know I'm going to use something that's a little bit obscene in terms of addiction language here, but you know, if you have a person who is stuck in a cycle of routinely using cocaine to get up and get amped, you know they're not going to. They're not going to one day be like oh, I don't need that because I have a mountain dew, right, because they're not similar power levels, right, the the feeling you get from one, although they're both going to create some kind of positive increased energy flow. The mountain dew is an increased energy flow of like three out of ten. The cocaine is like 14 out of 10, right? So like you're not even competing on the same scale. So if people are experiencing that with video games where you know I could watch a movie with my spouse or I could play a video game and 10 times out of 10 I pick the video game, because movie time with the spouse doesn't sound really that great we might kill the boss tonight. Yeah, and you know so you're treating.

Speaker 1:

You're trading one thing for another, and so that is a sign that there might be something out of balance in life. But also if you treat something like it's an obligation, like there are other things you and I could have been doing tonight, marcus, but at 8.45, roughly on a Thursday we record the Gaming Persona because it's our responsibility to keep the show going, to share it with people, to come together and have this friend time. If you don't make time for something, then it doesn't exist. Don't look at whether you choose to play a video game with your free time as automatically a sign that salience is in play or you're addicted, because in adult life you have to choose to make time for things that are important.

Speaker 2:

Otherwise it will not be a part of who you are. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, Yep. So you know the way this question ends, though that most players who love games really do want more of a life than games, but see games as something to help them out in the world outside of the game. So you know you might want to have leadership responsibilities at work, but you don't, and work isn't looking at you for that. They don't see you that way. But you could be a tank and lead a raid team and kill Nightmare Brontes, and somebody gets the wings of the architect, and that's a moment that you remember forever.

Speaker 2:

Or you kill Melania.

Speaker 1:

Right, you could take down Melia in elden ring. You could do so many different things in video game worlds when sometimes the world you're in at this part of time in your life is not asking you to do anything except continue doing what you're doing and you can do that. It's not a challenge, it's not a surprise. But video games are a challenge and they do give you surprises. And video games are an opportunity to escape the mundane and save the world without going to jail. Right, like there are things in this world that are worth trying to improve and save.

Speaker 1:

And when we watch a Captain America movie, he runs around, beats up the bad guys, is generally applauded. But if Captain America did that in our world, he'd get arrested instantly, because he can't punch people and you can't throw giant metal shields in their face. Right, it's just not allowed. And I think that this world is pretty much anti-hero in a way that the video game world is not. You're supposed to be a hero in there. So let's escape into a world where Ganondorf takes over. Everything lives in the castle, hyrule is his, but you're allowed to stop him. Hmm, how grand an idea if we could actually stop Ganondorf. Continue the journey, friends.

People on this episode

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Daniel Kaufmann

Host
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MarcusB814

Co-host