When Difficult Games Teach Us About Life's Challenges

The Gaming Persona podcast explores the intersection of gaming difficulty, life lessons, and personal growth through a wide-ranging conversation about current gaming experiences and wrestling entertainment.

• •The Gamer's Journey is the WINNER of the Psychology Category at the International Impact Book Awards for April 2025!!! 
• •Reflecting on Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" 34th anniversary
• • Discussing the importance of digital disconnection during vacation time
• • Exploring the challenges of WWE 2K25's character unlocking system
• • Analyzing how microtransactions changed gaming from Oblivion's horse armor to today
• • Deep dive into Expedition 33's innovative turn-based combat requiring active defense
• • Comparing Expedition 33 and Elden Ring's approaches to difficulty and player growth
• • Breaking down WrestleMania 41 matches and storytelling techniques
• • Examining how gaming and wrestling both create meaningful parallels to real life

Continue the journey with us as we explore how gaming shapes who we are and how we approach life's challenges.

Chapters

• 0:00 Show Introduction and Nostalgia
• 9:35 Disconnecting and Book Talk
• 21:06 Changing Jobs and Professional Growth
• 31:15 WWE 2K25 Gameplay Discussion
• 40:24 Gaming Microtransactions Debate
• 51:14 Expedition 33 Deep Dive
• 1:02:52 WrestleMania 41 Analysis
• 1:14:36 Elden Ring Progress and Gaming Philosophy

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast. This is the show that explores who we become when we play games, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just vibing in cozy indie worlds. Join me, dr Gamology and my good friend Marcus as we search for all the ways gaming and personal growth collide. Grab your controllers and let's continue the journey Now.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Did I? I totally forgot to tell you this. Oh my God, I can't believe I forgot to tell you this. You know what came out 34 years ago? No, the greatest book ever for me, like the number one book. Number one for me. There's no book better than this one book. You know what that book that is?

Speaker 1: 0:43

There's no way.

Speaker 2: 0:44

That book is 34 years old yep star wars heir to the empire. Written by timothy zahn wow.

Speaker 1: 0:52

So that book came out when I was four years old wow, 34 years ago I I linked it.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Heir to the empire was released on this day, may 1st 2025. Uh, 34 years ago it's my favorite.

Speaker 1: 1:08

Amazing, that is the first adult novel that I ever read I have a second edition of that book wow, wow, that's amazing. I don't even know my. If you look over my shoulder right there, you see the thron trilogy right there. Um, wow, okay, that's a great way to start a show, but I have one that I hope we can both agree wait, can I just show you, see that, the capero poster that's the planet of the chiss yep.

Speaker 2: 1:45

Timothy zahn signed that for me when I met. I met him at the star wars star wars, the old republic cantina in new york city in, I think, 2017. I talked to him for like 25 minutes and it was dude. If it wasn't for you, I would have never read Star Wars books and that's what I read.

Speaker 1: 2:10

He's a great author he really is. Also, I'm pretty sure he's won awards. Are you ready for this segue, Marcus?

Speaker 2: 2:20

I already know it.

Speaker 1: 2:23

So if, assuming that Timothy's on has won many, many awards because he's amazing author, we have something in common since the last episode was recorded.

Speaker 2: 2:33

But yeah, you won an award.

Speaker 1: 2:35

Yes and new impact. Book award winner in the psychology category, dr Hemology. I love that oh man, we're about to talk about so much wrestling too. So I I'm just so thrilled to be able to say and new next to my name, and if you love wrestling, you know, you know, you know.

Speaker 1: 2:59

Thanks, everybody uh, so we're well deserved, thank you, I mean I mean you were on vacation and you were the first person I texted. I didn't realize you disconnect so hard during vacation. So I was like, oh, I gotta wait for the deluge of text messages like seven days. But then you opened your phone and I got all the text messages. I was like, yes, validation from my friendship.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Yeah, you know, it was this vacation I needed and I literally took my phone and threw it in the hotel room and or the like, the condo thing and just let it sit. I'm like I don't need it. I have my kids, I have my wife, that's all I need.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Yeah, it was no joke, but I'm really proud of you for doing that too. I'm just saying that, like you, are the first person I texted and then, like you know, of course my family knew from like me saying out loud.

Speaker 2: 3:53

Can I tell you a little joke about my vacation? Want to know how hard I disconnected?

Speaker 1: 3:59

Sure, okay, okay. You disconnected so hard you had to log back into life with your security key. Oh, where's book one?

Speaker 2: 4:16

What do you mean? All right, anyway. Anyway. So this book it's called Kingdom Keepers oh yeah, I'm familiar with that. Okay, this book it's called Kingdom Keepers oh yeah, I'm familiar with that, okay. So we went to Hilton Head in South Carolina but we stayed at the Disney Resort in Hilton Head and it was amazing and I completely disconnected. I bought Trinity Trigger For anybody. It's like Trials of Mana and Visions of Mana on the Switch and it's made by the same people. Essentially, it's definitely like the same thing. Anyway, I bought that game but I didn't even turn it on because I was in the the Disney store buying the kids the Mickey ice cream sandwiches.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:00

Cause they're the best. And I walked by this book and it's called kingdom keepers and it was book one and I read it and it's it's basically like a teenager's book.

Speaker 1: 5:11

Right and it's about.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Villains are trying to like take over parks and like take over the world. And there's these kids who are made into like holograms. Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1: 5:21

It kind of reminds me of kingdom hearts, except it occurs in the theme parks.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Yes, yeah, okay, that's a good way to put it, and you're and you're not actually like fighting, yeah, right, but anyway. So I bought book one. It was $10 and I'm like you know what. I started reading it. I read the book in two days.

Speaker 2: 5:43

Well, yeah, that's good Well for you because you're a super reader, but for me that's like I don't read super well, but I read the whole thing in two days because I was in fast Like every moment of the day that I wasn't playing with the kids or doing a cannonball contest or water slide races or anything like that, I was reading this book.

Speaker 1: 6:05

Well, I was just saying, if you have the love of Timothy Zahn books and you have that with certain Star Wars books that come out, think about lifting at the gym, right, you're used to lifting heavier and then you get something that's lighter and it's also compelling, so you're able to get through it quicker. That's all I was saying. I wasn't comparing you to me. I was saying that makes a lot of sense given the kinds of books that I know you like.

Speaker 2: 6:34

Right and I was. I loved it. So my wife and kids went to the store before we left. I stayed back. I was just like packing and like getting stuff together to move, like leave and pack the car. So they went to the store, they bought me book two and three and obviously I'm reading it slower now that I'm home. But I'm halfway through book two and it's really a good read. It's fun because I love Disney Like I absolutely love Disney.

Speaker 1: 7:07

That's so nice Cause I live in Disney central. You should visit me more often, Marcus.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Yeah, the last time I was down, I was only there for four days and we didn't get to connect and it really sucks, cause I usually get to see't get to connect, and it really sucks because I usually get to see you once a year and because of that now it's going to be like two years since I've seen you and like that shit bothers me.

Speaker 1: 7:33

Yeah, but back to the books, I'm sure that the way they're written and the way the story flows, that they help you to believe in something and positivity and the power of friendship and yeah, are really good things. It's nice when fiction gives us that, because sometimes it gives us travis scott helping john cena become champion. So, uh, I don't remember how the episode actually starts, so let's see how that goes do you know how nice it is to not do anything in one day? I do not. Can you tell me?

Speaker 2: 8:02

about it. So I quit my job. I gave my what, yeah, so like I quit my job, and but you knew that I that reaction was completely for the, for the persona, peeps oh no, we should play the music like no, I don't want no scrubs that's you. Now, guys can't get no love from me.

Speaker 1: 8:24

Yeah, let's do it. Oh man, that's an anthem from my childhood. Right, me too. I got to turn you up.

Speaker 2: 8:31

So what I was going to say is so I quit my job, gave my two weeks Like I did it right, all of that.

Speaker 1: 8:37

But my point to you yeah because we're professional on the gaming persona, including when we interrupt each other.

Speaker 2: 8:43

Well, that's the territory, right. But still, when you work somewhere, I feel like, unless you absolutely hate your life and it's going to ruin your mental health to work there two more weeks, you always give notice because you never know when somebody from that place is going to affect your life later. That's so true. You know what I mean and I you know who I learned that from. I actually learned it from jackie cow, who worked at bioware on uh, star wars, the old republic, and when we interviewed him, you know, we asked him questions and in the post show, when it was just us we were asking questions, we were like and he didn't answer some things and he danced around and I said man, you don't work there anymore.

Speaker 2: 9:37

And he goes look at, the gaming industry is not that big. He used Eric Musco as a example. He goes such a cool guy, right, great guy, yeah. And his auto response to all content creators is that's a great question, but I can't answer it. But anyway, he said if I bash somebody, the gaming world is a gaming production World is small. Eric Musco could end up at X company five years from now and then I'm trying to apply to that place and he's like fuck him, he was an asshole to me. Or he talks shit about us on a podcast, right, that's closing doors. So you never, you never do that. You know what I'm saying. And that brings me to my point of you.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Give your two-week notice or one week, whatever the company policy is just because it's the right thing to do because I started my private practice, because they screwed up their contracts and my program that I was a counselor for ended up not even existing, just flash out of nowhere, and I had to give my two weeks notice. But I gave them. No one was in the office on Monday and so I left my resignation letter under the door of my supervisor. Yeah, and then I went about my regular Monday day in the field and I did that for two weeks. She messaged me and said you only did nine days because like 10 days would be two work weeks. I was like what do you mean? I gave it to you on Monday. I worked that Monday, finished Friday.

Speaker 1: 11:24

They're like no, you won. I gave it to you on Monday, I worked that Monday, finished Friday. They're like no, you won't qualify as doing your two weeks unless you come in on Monday, because we didn't officially get that letter until Tuesday morning. I was like, yeah, because you left early on Monday, you goon. So I came into the office for an extra day and just played video games on my laptop because I had no caseload right and and so that counted as work. And that was when I realized I can play video games for for work, and that's when the dream started, marcus the dream yeah but yeah, so we're talking the same language.

Speaker 2: 12:02

So I did that. So, circling back to me doing nothing, so I have some PTO left. So I took PTO day today but I was going to drive into Boston to this store where I buy my work clothes, and it's about an hour away and I was north of Boston, but anyway, that doesn't matter the point is. But then I found out that there's another store in Rhode Island, which is probably 20 minutes from my wife's uncle's house in Rhode Island, that we go to in the summer and I don't actually need pants, but I have. I have four pairs of these pants and these parents are like $80 a pair, but they're three sizes too big because I lost so much weight and they're brand new in the package.

Speaker 2: 12:53

But when I called to say hey, can I exchange these, they said only in person. We will accept them in person because your return, the return day, is passed. You know what I mean. Like the their policy on returns, but if I go there with the pants, they'll exchange them. Okay, so I have to drive there, but I was going to do that. I didn't end up doing that, so I literally did nothing today I watched I finished the hall of fame, the Triple H Hall of Fame speech.

Speaker 2: 13:28

I played some WWE 2K25. I actually pulled Radagon and did a science experiment today.

Speaker 1: 13:42

That's Elden Ring for the untarnished.

Speaker 2: 13:46

I was going to just say that. So I pulled Radagon and I pulled him probably five times. I got him to about like 30% health before I died a bunch of times. And I said and I was screen recording it because when I beat the game I want it recorded yeah, big moment recording it, because I want when I beat the game I want it recorded. Yeah, there's so big moment, I've played this game for 110 hours, it's a big moment. So I was screen recording it and I said on the screen record.

Speaker 2: 14:16

I was like I'm gonna do a science experiment, I'm gonna summon a summon and see what happens. I beat Radagon first. Try Nice Summon, it made it. It's really cheating, it's so overpowered and like just the boss being distracted from you makes it so easy. Anyway, I saw the Elden beast for the first time and I got the elden beast I want to say to 20. It almost died. And okay, I was, I was playing foolish because I'm like I got a summon, like who cares? And the summon died and I didn't realize it. So then Elden Beast completely faced me and I got wiped. But I'm like, all right, this is not going to be hard.

Speaker 2: 15:10

So the plan is beat Radagon without a summon, then summon for the Elden Beast fight and hopefully, you know, that makes it a little easier. And I can beat this game. Sure, of course, wow. And I can beat this game Sure, of course, wow. But honestly, I've been thinking a lot about like what's next? Kind of like what you were talking about last week, man. You haven't said much today. This is kind of cool. It's like it's like your Keanu Reeves for John wick. John wick didn't want to say a lot of things, so he charged the movie company $39,000 per word. He says.

Speaker 1: 15:51

That's so great. I would be so rich right now.

Speaker 2: 15:53

Yeah, so he made $15 million by only saying 510 words, or something like that, and the movie is rated the best out of all of the movies.

Speaker 1: 16:02

Anyway, moving on John Wick a great movie. I was just trying to explain to my wife that we should watch them, but she doesn't like action movies. But she told me we had this dating couples closeness communication app that we use every day, called cozy home, to gamify yeah, to gamify our relationship and have topics every day. And we raise a digital cat together because our two real cats are not enough. And so we were talking about who our original crush is Like. What's the celebrity that made you realize that you are attracted to the opposite sex? And hers was Keanu Reeves. So then, within a couple hours of that conversation, I'm like how come we've never watched John Wick? I love the first three. I've never seen the fourth one, but I know I would love that one too.

Speaker 2: 16:48

I don't think I've seen the third.

Speaker 1: 16:49

That's not my thing. She's not going to watch it with me, Marcus. What the heck they're so good.

Speaker 2: 16:54

I think you just got to put it on one day.

Speaker 1: 16:57

Yeah. And see if she gets sucked in den well, her love for keanu reeves comes from bill and ted, and that's honestly a very different thing than john wick but, you know, he's still keanu he's still keanu reeves. I still think it's great. I think we'd enjoy it. Um, I actually I'm sorry everyone if you're dying to know who my celebrity crush that made me realize I'm attracted to the opposite sex was.

Speaker 2: 17:24

I don't remember what I said.

Speaker 1: 17:31

If I remember, I will totally just blurt it out in the middle of the episode mine was elizabeth like miss elizabeth.

Speaker 2: 17:35

Yeah, from macho man's from the macho man randy savage she came out in wrestlemania what was it? Three or four in that sparkly dress and I was like mania, what was? It three or four in that sparkly dress and I was like and I'm a little kid going okay, I remember my answer.

Speaker 1: 17:49

I remember it was nicole kidman from batman forever, and we were talking about this because val kilmer passed away and he was batman in that movie. And then she's like, really, nicole kidman was in batman. I was like, yeah, totally so.

Speaker 2: 18:01

Yep it was hard. Yep, there it is. So I was playing, so, needless to say, my day of nothing. I played a lot of WWE and I didn't buy the premium copy this year because they aren't. They don't sell the premium versions on disc anymore, and the reason why I bought disc is because my son has a PlayStation and I have a PlayStation and we kind of share the game through the house, sure, but I now I'm regretting not buying the better version because I want all the characters and, like you, legit have to work in order to get all those characters.

Speaker 1: 18:51

And I'm not that good at the game. I need to interject here because I did buy the bloodline edition and I've always bought the premium edition because WWE is one of my favorite things. So, getting all the stuff, all the features, all the you know, all the bonuses, I love that, yep. But. But if the goal is to play the game and have a reason to play the game, you did it better because, listen, it's a lot of work to unlock the characters. But when everything's unlocked, everything, not just the wrestlers, the belts, the arenas the only things that are not unlocked now for me are things that are tied to that storyline where you play as all the members of the bloodline throughout history and you redo their matches. Those are the only things that are grayed out for me that I can't use right out of the box, and so there's no reason for me to play matches, except if I want to play them.

Speaker 2: 19:53

There's no incentive so I do agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. But my six-year-old son just wants to be all the characters. Like we're playing the game. We're doing one-on-one matches, a steel cage match like we're not. We're just doing matches like whoever he says I'm gonna be him and I'm gonna pick somebody else. So for me, I'm gonna buy the 60 season pass that unlocks all the characters. That's basically what you get in the bloodline edition. You know what I mean, and it's gonna be my mistake that I didn't just pay the money to get the Bloodline Edition Because, as fun as it is to do a match and get 50 of the non-purchasable coins, because I don't think you can actually buy those coins, I think you can.

Speaker 1: 20:41

Oh, okay, I think you can do a digital unlock from the PSN and just buy the boost that gives you all the stuff.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Right. So my point is I think I have to do that because for me it's more of like my son wants to be John Cena and you only have one John Cena, and the John Cena he wants is locked behind this paywall and my one should be a different color of the fruity pebbles shirts. Right and he he doesn't, he, he doesn't, he's not going to obtain 124 stars in my rise. Live events.

Speaker 1: 21:19

You know what I mean oh, you know what I mean like action yeah, like I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1: 21:26

That's such a drag. Also, it's a it's manipulative, because in order to participate in those matches you have to buy the packs with money to get the wrestlers that are required in order to do the live event matches and you're not, you're not even guaranteed to get that character because it's a loot box system. So if you need I'm making up a card here If you need Sapphire rated 78 LA Knight from the like Cyborg Rebellion pack making stuff up here and you buy 10 of those packs, you might get, you know, three Sapphire cards. But you might get Tiffany Stratton, you might get CM Punk, you might get Big E, you might get you know Logan Paul.

Speaker 1: 22:16

You might spend $50 on those packs and not get the LA Knight that gets you in to that live event match. So it's like, well, do you spend another 50 bucks to try to get LA night so you can do that one live event match? Plus, your son needs 124 stars from those matches. So getting LA night for a hundred dollars is five stars. You still are 119 stars short. So got to do it again and again and again and again. Are you gonna spend $3,000 to unlock that John Cena if, like, your luck is that bad?

Speaker 2: 22:55

and so that's my point and I'm not saying I need all the characters, but there's like the when you go to their page and it shows the store and it shows the purchasables and there's like a list of like 80 of them. Those are all I need. And, yes, it's fun to do one-on-one matches and get 14 coins or 50 coins, or if you have a really good match, you get 60 coins and you build it up that way by doing matches. But at the same time it's like he just wants to play the game and there's so many wrestlers time to play the game, right, and there's not an option in the menu when you're scrolling to just click and find and show.

Speaker 2: 23:37

like show ones are collected only yeah you know, there's like you have to scroll through hundreds of people who have locks marks in front of them.

Speaker 1: 23:47

It's it's frustrating marcus, you're making me think a lot about where my work ethic comes from, and there's a video game that popped in my head that I don't think I've talked about enough ever on the history of the gaming persona. Would you like to guess what that is? No, I can't wait Mortal Kombat 2.

Speaker 2: 24:08

Best Mortal Kombat ever.

Speaker 1: 24:10

It's so good. Now there are three secret characters in Mortal Kombat 2. Is your memory sharp enough to remember the three characters?

Speaker 2: 24:20

Goro Nope, noob Sabot, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 24:27

Um, this is tough. We did not rehearse this.

Speaker 2: 24:31

No, why would we? We don't rehearse anything.

Speaker 1: 24:35

We don't even have show notes anymore. You remember, miss Elizabeth. Tell me what else you remember from 1992, buddy, oh, I don't know, man. Oh you're typing. Yes, I got you All right, I can tell you. I mean, it's my story.

Speaker 2: 24:51

Well, yeah, I'm listening.

Speaker 1: 24:57

It's Jade tell you. I mean, it's my story. Well, yeah, I'm listening. It's jade smoke and noob sabah. That's right, um, yep, all right now, as a kid so I'm like seven years old to ten, during the time where I would spend my afternoon doing this there's three.

Speaker 1: 25:11

All three of these characters have different ways to get a chance to fight them. One time, okay, and you can't unlock them. You can never play as them. You're just trying to fight them, right, and noob say bot is the one that you have to have the most dedication to do and you have to win 50 matches in a row. And what I would do is I'd turn the handicap on so that I can defeat player two with three uppercuts and I just uppercut, uppercut, uppercut, round one, win uppercut, uppercut, uppercut, finish him uppercut. That's the fastest way that I could figure out to win one match. Do that 50 times and you get to fight the super like souped up, hyper fast. Black shadow ninja, noobs day bot. And there's no micro. There's no micro transaction to just get a button to automatically fight noobs day bot. Because it's the 90s, we didn't have micro transactions, because elder scrolls, oblivion, hadn't decided that we needed horse armor yet which, by the way, marcus elder scrolls oblivion segue just came out with a remake. Remaster, have you played it yet?

Speaker 2: 26:37

Well, you know, I didn't play it, but I've seen plenty of people play it and it looks amazing because they used what is it? Real Engine 5? Unreal? Yeah, unreal 5. Absolutely, and it's amazing, like what they did. It's completely. I wouldn't even call it a remaster, it's basically a remake.

Speaker 1: 26:56

It's beautiful yeah, it's a little muddy why they use the word remaster when it very much looks like a remake and it has some systemic quality of life improvements that make it a different game too. They could have just gone remake.

Speaker 2: 27:09

But you know why they did. They didn't call it remake, because then people complain, call it a remaster and under promise and over deliver.

Speaker 1: 27:20

Well, they did that, so really, really happy that that happened. Gamers needed it. Oblivion was one of those games that passed me by when I was a college student, but the best man for my wedding and best friend during my college years played it all the time and tried to get me so many times to play and I was just like I don't have an Xbox, I play PlayStation. So at the time that was my, my cop out or maybe it was limited funds, I couldn't buy it.

Speaker 2: 27:47

It's too busy playing kingdom hearts, I was going to say but it's one of those games that you you're either. You can like the game, but it's one of those games that it's like I'm playing it or I'm not. It's not a middle of the road game. For some people, oblivion is like it.

Speaker 1: 28:05

I know, yeah, like when Nick saw that that's nostalgia for 2006 too, right exactly Like Nick.

Speaker 2: 28:12

He texted me. I sent him the trailer for it. He texted me back.

Speaker 1: 28:19

Oh my god, buying now. Now I haven't texted.

Speaker 2: 28:20

They stealth launched it too, like they announced that it's happening and then, by the way, it's available now and well, that's the way to do it too, because then you honestly, all games should do that, because you don't give people time to destroy the like. Because, let's face facts, the internet views happen on negativity right. So if they release a trailer and it's like we're not coming out for a month, people are gonna like, frame by frame, freeze this trailer and be like, oh look, how, look, how much it looks like shit, I'm not playing this game. They'll get a million views, but then 100,000 people don't buy it. But then they show the trailer and at the end of the trailer out now people are like what? And it gives people no time to give it a negative review.

Speaker 1: 29:12

So, to complete my segue and bring it back to the original mortal kombat 2 story, oblivion is important because it is the first game to ever have a microtransaction in 2006 era, and that led to a complete change in how video games are released, leading to marcus's problem in wwe 2K25. But Mortal Kombat 2 did not have microtransactions. All the characters were playable, all 12 of them, the moment you start the game, all the secret characters. If you want them, you got to work for them. There's no shortcut, and the game was complete upon purchase.

Speaker 1: 29:51

Very different than the world today, and for logistical reasons, video games can't really be that way anymore. But there are games that treat the gamer like we're just trees of flowing cash and the game company is trying to take all of it. And that is sad too, because it leads to all the psychological problems that I have to help people with as a licensed mental health professional. So in a lot of ways, for me, microtransactions are the very worst part of being a gamer from a health and wellness perspective, and I just want to call that out because you know it connects to your problem. It connects to every game that comes out, because you know it connects to your problem. It connects to every game that comes out, really, except for the game that I'm playing right now, which is not Oblivion. I have been playing Claire Obscure, expedition 33. And, oh my gosh, marcus, I am hooked, dude there's so much.

Speaker 2: 30:53

There's so much for me to say on this. Okay, I didn't know anything about this game Me either. All right, nobody did. It was another stealth launch by Xbox, and Well, I'm playing on PS5, but yeah, no, yeah, no, no.

Speaker 2: 31:16

but it's an xbox studio game, I'm pretty sure. Okay, got gotcha right. So there was another stealth launch. They just fucking launched the game. There was no, I didn't know anything about this game. And so I saw it and I'm like what is this? And I looked at it and I first looked at it. I'm like, is this another souls? Like like, what is this? And then the video showed this, like girl, like uh, like spider manning across or like uh, what are those?

Speaker 2: 31:47

yeah, it's like a grapple, like a magical grapple so grapple, and then it goes into a boss battle and I looked at it and I'm watching, going wait a minute, is this turn-based? It is, and I'm like, oh my god, I gotta see if doc is playing it. And then the next second, on twitter or youtube, something popped up and it was you playing the game yeah and I'm like, oh my god, and then I tuned into your stream and it it's so satisfying watching because it's such, it's a, it's like this.

Speaker 1: 32:27

Right here is the definition of 2025 turn-based game it's so good because other turn-based games that have been really good for me and my growth Persona, final Fantasy these are my games. They're my favorite games and turn-based is not always the most fun, because you make your choices and then you wait for the computer to make their choices and those choices happen to you and it's really just trading blows and then hopefully your attacks hit harder and their characters go down right. But in this game you have to decide am I going to dodge, am I going to try to parry and return it with a counter? You do not just stand there and take the shot like in wrestling. Marcus, some of the silliest things that we see are like punch, punch, punch, punch and they're just hitting each other in the side of the face. No one is attempting to block anything. Right, which is like boxing, taekwondo, karate 101 you learn how to block. You don't just take shots to your face. Okay, uh, but it's, it's fun to watch. You know it's part of the shtick of professional wrestling.

Speaker 1: 33:49

Uh, in this turn base you do not just take shots to the face. In fact it is so bad. When you take a direct hit you die. Your health bars do react in a way that reminds me a lot of elden ring right you have. You have to stay alive and not get hit by the big hits. You can't get hit by three of the small hits. You have to treat your life and your health bar like it's precious for everyone in your party. And it's all about timing and I'm bad at it, but I love it, I can't stop. And the mythological story Marcus. It's about gods and humanity. It's about fate. It's about our relationship between our life and our death and understanding that life is precious and limited. And it's also about I'm not just going to sit here and let the gods send death right at me and just make me blip Thanos style. I'm going to spend the last year of my life trying to change this so everyone else has a future.

Speaker 1: 34:58

That's so powerful that is. I have man Like if I was the rock I'd be going smacking my arms Like right here, you'd see the goosebumps Like. I am a sucker for the relationship between mortality and immortality, gods and humans and nature. It's a big part of my book and now that's a big part of my identity and this game is seriously making me think. After I finish this game, do I have all the new games in my head that I need to continue the journey again?

Speaker 1: 35:43

one more book continue the journey too right, like I don't know what it would be. I mean, I, okay, I know what it's going to be called, but we're not ready for that yet. Marcus, you're just going to have to keep listening to Gaming Persona for a little while longer. Friends, aww, aww.

Speaker 2: 36:01

I thought we were going to get a reveal.

Speaker 1: 36:04

We will just not today.

Speaker 2: 36:06

You know, I wonder. I always think about what, like? I've never written a book, right, so do you make it the gamers? Boa, no, no, that's silly, that's just no.

Speaker 1: 36:20

I would say I don't know, memoirs of a working class nerd no, no that's gotta be it, marcus. That word was yours for years and I never hear you say it anymore, because we don't fight raid bosses together, and it's a tragedy tragedy.

Speaker 2: 36:38

I, I guess for me. Hey, I I don't know if, if anything, in your next book I want to write a paragraph about something that adds to it, because my view and your view is different, but like you want to, co-write a book with me.

Speaker 1: 36:59

No, I'm not a writer, oh I am not a writer, come on.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Well, neither is anyone with that attitude well, I can have the ai write it for me, but oh, that's gross yeah, I know that. So my point to you is, if I wrote a paragraph, it would be something and it would just be like quotation marks, like said by the man who said Boomba for years. Right, whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 37:21

Marcus, you did write content that's in the gamer's journey.

Speaker 2: 37:27

I know.

Speaker 1: 37:35

Yeah, you're part of the sequence of events of all the people sharing their personal stories about what games meant for them at critical periods of their life.

Speaker 2: 37:40

Yes, I understand, but anyways. But my point is this. I'm circling back to Claire 33. Is that what it's called, Claire 33?

Speaker 1: 37:49

Claire Obscure, expedition 33.

Speaker 2: 37:52

Okay, we're just going to call claire 33 because no, it's expedition 33 if you're shortening it all right.

Speaker 2: 37:57

Expedition 33. Yeah, all I hear on your streams and your videos is this is a mythological wonder like the. It warms my heart because of the mythological background of this and I'm laughing because, in your like, I could write a book about just this game. I need to start writing and I, marcus, did. You know I wanted to put an extra 47 games in my book, but I couldn't. I had to stop because there was so much. But now this Expedition 33 is making me want to write more and add those 47 books I could, or 47 games I couldn't add the last time, but I can add this time. In the gamer's journey to revenge of the journey. Oh no, it would be.

Speaker 1: 38:44

The journey strikes back I mean, I would correct there's nothing to correct there that that's essentially me. Well, I know. Bravo, marcus, you don't even need me, you can just record this and, like, talk to yourself, you can have a. You can have like a, a bucket hat that you wear and do the thing people do on TikTok, where they talk to themselves in different outfits, and that can be the podcast.

Speaker 2: 39:10

No, I like having you here. Oh, that's so nice even you know I yeah anyway, I guess all right. So let me back up to expedition 33. What is it about?

Speaker 1: 39:24

there's.

Speaker 1: 39:24

Everyone lives on an island called gloomier oh, that was the relevancy like the hot no, not wrong wrong island, like the candlestick from Beauty and the Beast, okay, and there is a god called the Painteress and she paints things into existence and you can see her far off in the distance, on the mainland of the continent. And there's this arch, and inside that arch is a glowing number. And one day this number appeared and it was a hundred, and then everybody that was, um, that age vanished. Thanos style, like into dust and rose petals. You just, you know, like, like the blip, and then the number goes down to 99. And every year the paint dress shows up, this repaints the number to the next number lower, and this has been going on for 77 years.

Speaker 1: 40:23

The number at the beginning of the game goes from 34 to 33, which means everybody that's 33 vanishes.

Speaker 1: 40:32

Okay, okay. And then the people who are 32 spend the last year of their life sailing over to the continent to try to fight their way to that number. And whatever is there, they don't know, they're called expeditions and they want to fight whatever it is to try to save humanity, get rid of that number and make it so the children and the young adults can live beyond the age of 33. Because if they don't stop it. You're going to get to the point where your oldest humans are seven year olds, and then six year olds and five year olds, and what are they going to do so like you're at the years where you're in the physical prime of your life, coming up, and if you can't fight your way through that, then humanity's done Done. And it's just such a good discussion about accepting fate or fighting for destiny, destiny and believing that if you have a mission you can overcome anything, but then realizing how tough of a challenge that is to overcome anything. And the monster design, the world design.

Speaker 1: 41:46

It's a beautiful game and I know I don't always talk about graphics it is beautiful it's gorgeous and the storytelling 10 out of 10, unless we can break the scale and go up to like 12 out of 10,. I love everything about the game. There's leveling up RPG system, there's gear and outfits, there's equipping passive skills, there's equipping abilities and really just finding new party members.

Speaker 2: 42:14

It's got everything that I want in a video game the cool thing that when I, when you were watching, I watched you die or lose a lot, right. So you were fighting this like guy and you're like man. You're like, oh, you were like oh, this guy is definitely a boss, this guy's definitely a boss. And you're like oh, this guy is definitely a boss, this guy is definitely a boss. And you're like okay, I got to kill the flowers. And you kill the flowers and the shield broke. And then you're like all right, damage time, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 42:43

And then you were talking to me and you're like Marcus, in this game you actually have to dodge the attacks and if you don't, you get smashed up. And I'm like oh, like, oh, snap, this is a pretty cool mechanic. Like that is a really cool mechanic for me, where you're just not pushing a button and saying dodge. You're like like in the menus, you're actually like have to dodge the attacks anyway, yeah. And then all of a sudden you're like oh, my god, there's like six flowers now and you because you didn't clear this the I'm gonna call it the dps check, like the dps check on the boss, because if you don't get so far on the boss, you're gonna spawn more, or like it's. It's just an enraged mechanic in an mmo. Yeah right, yeah, and you didn't. And then, as soon as there was all of those flowers, you were toast. It was like the old Castlevania games Game over.

Speaker 1: 43:40

Did I die on that attempt? Yes, yeah. Well, I got the next one. That was such a cool.

Speaker 1: 43:47

So the boss fights aren't actually repetitive at all. They're all unique and some of them are optional. I have been going down paths that you don't actually have to go down because you want to find all the new abilities. You unlock new abilities for your party. That way, you unlock new outfits, which are just cosmetic but very fun. And it's so neat because every time they swing at you is another attempt to dodge.

Speaker 1: 44:16

So they might be putting in a four hit combo to like hook, uppercut, overhand, overhand, and you have to choose with each hit. Am I going to take it, which is a dumb choice Am I going to dodge, am I going to parry or am I going to jump? And if you choose the wrong one, even if your timing's right, you get nailed Right. And it's such a smart way to think about turn-based combat. And now that we have this, I really wonder what's next for games that have historically been all about turn-based combat. Could we get a Pokemon that's a little bit more active? Could we get a Persona or a Final Fantasy that borrows a little bit of this, because all these franchises are evolving in different ways, and this is new. I have never played a game like this. Marcus and I play a lot of games in this genre.

Speaker 2: 45:22

Yeah, I mean the excitement that you have playing. It reminds me so much of you playing persona five Royale.

Speaker 1: 45:42

Yeah, that was. That was when my name changed.

Speaker 2: 45:45

Right, I remember that. And you, you know I'm going to be real Persona was not my cup of tea, right At all, yeah, but real persona was not my cup of tea right at all. Yeah, what? But watching you play it with your excitement made it awesome. Like I got into the game because you were excited.

Speaker 2: 46:06

But watching you play expedition 33 every move, you play expedition 33 every it's so thrilling, something right the thing is I think a turn-based game for you you're good you, and streaming is really good because it gives you those lulls to where you can conversate and it's I don't want to say it's slower pace, but it's definitely a slower pace. It's not like elden ring, where you're in it like blinders on go or final fantasy 16. Right, yeah, you're you, you can battle and then you run around and you can conversate, or even during the turn based combat, you can take a second to explain what you're doing, even though it's very intense for you because the game's moving forward.

Speaker 1: 46:55

Yeah, because if it's my turn, it at least will not move on until I decide to choose my action. So if something happens in the chat, there's a good question If someone redeems points to do a geek therapy card, or actually. Marcus, I put a new one in a while ago. No one's ever cashed it in until today, and it's this there is a cash in on my channel. I'm holding up a stress ball that is actually a D 20 stress ball and I created this thing where people can use their channel points and I will roll the stress ball, get a number.

Speaker 1: 47:36

I have a spreadsheet with 50 psychology topics for gamers and then obviously it's a D 20. So I'll get one of those topics, highlight it, move it out and then the numbers will move down Right. So now there's 49 topics left and they. They did it and I was able to just pause what I'm doing, put a little title above my head on obs, so that we have the title and just talk about and we talked about the psychological experience of playing vr games for like five to ten minutes uninterrupted, because I was playing a game that allows me to do that. It was a really good talk too. I'm gonna have to clip it and put it out places so people can hear me talk about, right, my love, my love of vr games and all the things it does for us. Um man, everything's just coming together right now, but, marcus, I have to add some sadness to our episode. You know what did not come together for me? Oh, wrestlemania night too. Oh boy, we're going there and you know, what?

Speaker 1: 48:39

Yeah, Because our last episode that we recorded, even though we were, we released them out of sequence. We really got a debrief on WrestleMania 41. Oh my God.

Speaker 2: 48:53

We got time? Oh no, I have nothing but time. Oh my God, we got time? Oh no, I have nothing but time. Nothing but time, because you were.

Speaker 1: 48:59

I want to cut you off really quick. I got to say something because you were talking about how using your summon ghost spirit whisper thing in Radagon's fight in Elden Ring makes it so easy and cheap and whatever. Radagon's fight in Elden Ring makes it so easy and cheap and whatever. And I would just like to talk about three different matches at WrestleMania 41. Alright, how do you think Dominic Mysterio feels right now?

Speaker 2: 49:30

Top of the world.

Speaker 1: 49:31

Why. Because he's the Intercontinental champion do you think, one-on-one, he beats braun breaker to become intercontinental champion? No, that's not why he won it. Why did he win it?

Speaker 1: 49:44

to create the tension with him and finn baller and finn okay you're talking about backstage stuff, like the script writers, but like if we look at the match like it's actual competitive sport. Why did Dominic Mysterio win the fatal four way? Because he summoned Finn Balor with a little bell. Let him go do the fight. Everyone forgot he was on the turnbuckle. Frog splash One, two, three and no.

Speaker 2: 50:16

Yeah, but that's okay. But that is a fatal four-way match. They're throwing four wrestlers in there for more people to do the work and to give everybody a spotlight and then give the uncharacteristic person the win for the drama. We it's basically just a. It's a soap opera, right, and a lot of people don't like dominic mysterio.

Speaker 1: 50:42

I actually like him I love him so much.

Speaker 2: 50:45

He might be my favorite wrestler, right, right like he's so skinny and scrawny he does like he he's a good wrestler, but he's still terrible right. And I still think he's eddie guerrero's son. I think it's just a lie because he looks just like him.

Speaker 1: 51:01

I think his ray's wife definitely like did a thing with the thing, yeah, like and they've been lying ever since.

Speaker 2: 51:09

But anyway, I think, dominic, for I think he gets shit on so much, but he's just, he's another jd mcdouble where he just gets power bombed around and like a rag doll and he just takes it, he just works and giving him. Listen, man, when he was the nxt north american champion the heat he got, everywhere he went and it was great and the craziest thing is people at wrestlemania were cheering him so loud he came back out yeah, he got an encore curtain call right, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 51:48

So for me, I'm happy he won because, honestly, I think finn baller needs to move on from the judgment day and do finn baller, because I do think finn baller needs a belt can we get him his song back though, because that entrance was sick and I miss it yes, yeah, um, but but I believe the just to circle back, the, the Fatal 4-Way is for all four.

Speaker 2: 52:16

It's to put four people in a pay-per-view or a match so everybody gets showcased Like Penta's going to get the belt, but they can't give it to him yet. They need the stories to progress. You know what I mean. And Bron Breaker is clearly on his way to undisputed champion, or probably world heavyweight champion next.

Speaker 1: 52:36

He's in a different spot now for sure than he was at WrestleMania. You want to talk about that.

Speaker 2: 52:41

No, let's talk about WrestleMania.

Speaker 1: 52:43

All right. So my next thing to ask you, just to try to help you feel better about Elden Ring how do you think Seth Rollins feels?

Speaker 2: 52:58

ring. How do you think Seth Rollins feels? Well, I think he Seth.

Speaker 1: 52:59

Rollins is probably my favorite wrestler right now. He also rang a bell and summoned Paul Heyman well, I think that.

Speaker 2: 53:04

Well, I think if you watch the, the, the lead up to Wrestlemania, the things that were being said weren't false. You know, roman Reigns left Paul Heyman to get powerbombed through a table. He didn't call him. He never contacted him after he lost his belt. He used him until he didn't need him, right. Cm Punk left Paul Heyman all by himself at the WWE. When CM Punk left there, the stuff that Seth Rollins is saying is all true stuff. Granted, it's for the story.

Speaker 1: 53:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:42

But my point is, everything Seth Rollins is saying is true and, and you know, I think and this is my hot take I think Seth Rollins is the best wrestler of our generation, like the generation of now, when Roman Reigns is showing up to defend his title once every three months. Who's wrestling every week? Carrying the show? Seth Rollins. Who's wrestling every week? Carrying the show Seth Rollins AEWWE Seth Rollins? Who's wrestling every week? Carrying the show Seth Rollins AEWWE Seth Rollins? When CM Punk left, who picked up the pieces? Seth Rollins. So everything that Seth Rollins is doing is true. Yeah, and I think that is the. I think that batch night one main event is the match of WrestleMania.

Speaker 1: 54:40

Oh, it definitely was, because someone else had a summon that just made no sense for wrestling, if we want to talk about john cena, so sad. Um, my point, marcus, in case you didn't get my connection with video games and your confidence in elden ring is a win, is a win no matter who you summon to help you. And you've got this because sooner or later we're going to have an episode of the gaming persona where you are elden lord, and I cannot wait for that to happen. Well, yeah, um I mean clickety-clack, clickety-clack, clickety-clack.

Speaker 2: 55:34

I'm typing in the match for Cena, the Cena-Cody match, so if you bring something up I can like. It's playing like the highlights are playing.

Speaker 2: 55:44

There were highlights in that match Well it's just like the highlights of the match. Let me say that Well, okay, I think it goes deeper match. Let me say that well, okay, I think, I think it goes deeper. So if we're just rating wrestlemania, the john cena cody rhodes match was big enough to where you didn't need travis scott or the rock. That is a the fact that we didn't get the rock well, right, well, that's.

Speaker 2: 56:10

Uh, I'm not even going there tonight because that'll just start a whole other tangent. I'm talking about the match. Like, john Cena turning heel and taking the belt from Cody Rose is enough of a story that it didn't need any extra. Yeah, you know what I mean. No-transcript.

Speaker 1: 56:59

We are halfway through the year, so that does equate to almost weekly.

Speaker 2: 57:02

Almost Well. No, we're five months in. There's 12 months in a year. Six out of 12 is halfway. Marcus, I understand, but my point is we're having another part-time champion and and somebody actually said to me a good friend of mine, james that I watch all my wrestling at home with um. He said it's gonna be a nice break, and I disagree. I liked seeing cody rose. Whether you like cody rose, or the fact that he was showing up yeah, but like you do, some people don't and the fact that some of his him not showing up every week the show is less because of it. You know what I mean. Like we're really in that wrestle at post. Wrestlemania drought, yeah, and that is whatWrestleMania drought yeah, and that is what I'm not happy about.

Speaker 1: 57:59

Yeah, I was emotionally upset after night two of WrestleMania. I just was expecting more, and when it didn't happen, the outcome was fine, actually fine, actually like that's not what it was. I'm actually very used to heel champions ending wrestlemania it happens all the time right and and it creates that momentum for us that now our heroes have something still to fight for. And in real life, the bad guys win a lot a a lot a lot. You know, like if you're not cheating, you aren't trying. You know that stuff is proved correct way more often than it's disproven. In my opinion, as much as I wish, as a mental health professional, I could champion the other side and be like hey, you got this, you don't got this, the deck is loaded, it's stacked against you Right.

Speaker 1: 58:56

It's all the way from our legislation to our financial systems to everything. It is stacked against you. You have to be really gritty and roll up your sleeves and try, but also be innovative and creative, bring everything to the table just to make a step forward in so many areas in life. And Cody Rhodeses, in the story they wrote for that match, fell victim to the things I'm saying, right, so that's okay, because reality reflects that too, and cody rhodes will very likely be the wwe champion again. We will get to hear the whoa with the belt around his waist, john cena's quitting at the end of the year. He will not be the champion for a long, long time. In the grand scheme of things, and ultimately I only brought this up because all these people won these matches with help from other people and at the end of the day, they won. And that's my number one thing I always talk with you about, with that silly question about summoning an Elden Ring, is just win the fight.

Speaker 2: 1:00:03

Okay. So can I ask you a question? Yeah, have you ever played Dark Souls 3? Nope. Dark Souls 2? Nope. Bloodborne Nope. Dark Souls 1? Nope, there's no summons in those games. Okay. So I have played demon souls okay, no summons in that game. And my I guess my point is the souls game, but I beat demon souls three times you're better than me, I guess.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

Well, I haven't played it, but I guess my point is I feel like if I'm going to go play Dark Souls 3, I need to know the mechanics without having somebody absorbing my hits. For me. Like a big milestone for me. Okay, here's my plan. I need to beat Radagon without a summon. I am going to use a summon on the Elden Beast, but I need to beat Radagon without it Because, like for me, because if I summon during radagon, that summon is going to die during elden beast and elden beast is way harder than radagon you know, it's true right, so if I so, that's my, that's my dilemma.

Speaker 2: 1:01:28

So, uh, what's the guy before? Uh, radagon the first, or aloo, well, who? Who is it really, though, the first?

Speaker 1: 1:01:33

elden lord godfrey. So what's?

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

the guy before Radagon, the first Horolu. Well, who is it really, though? The first Elden Lord Godfrey, godfrey, yeah, and then he turns into Horolu. That was hard, that was an awesome fight, but again, I used a summon when Horolu came and it made it a cakewalk Like. It was like jokingly easy.

Speaker 1: 1:01:54

Maybe that's because you're a high enough level to where you can deal out damage fast enough.

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

No that my summon just handled all the work.

Speaker 1: 1:02:04

Your summon acted as the tank in a relationship between tank and DPS.

Speaker 1: 1:02:10

Yes yes, it did and it made me survive. The psychology of that is really telling here, because you have been the tank in my raid teams for years and I have been the dps. It is always a bad thing when the boss is looking me in my face because that means he killed you, right, that means we're toast. I don't get I don't get a thrill rush or sense of accomplishment from the boss looking at me and dying. I get a sense of accomplishment from standing back throwing lightning bolts as fast as I can and watching it die while it tries to smack you in the face. So maybe I summon things because I miss you, marcus. Oh, maybe.

Speaker 2: 1:02:57

Maybe it's just one of those things and the science experiment worked. I guess my point is that's my goal I have to beat Radagon without a summon so then I can summon in the Elden Beast and become Elden Lord. And then the next feeling is do I go back and kill before I go to new game? Plus, do I go back and kill, uh, the guy that's called the lord of blood? I don't know who that is. Mog yes, go kill mog, so that when I decide to do the dlc, I can do it at any point, because I don't know who that is. Moog yes, go kill Moog, so that when I decide to do the DLC, I can do it at any point, because I don't think I want to start the game over. You know, there's some things that I didn't do and maybe like later, but I really want to try a Dark Souls game because I do. I really like them, but I think the next time I play a dark souls game I'm going to do it on my PlayStation or Xbox in the living room.

Speaker 1: 1:03:58

Yeah, Shadow of the Earth tree is a really great experience with some great environments and good boss mechanics and stuff. So if you can take out Moog, then you would have access to all those areas and it's like a another game. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:12

I just I think I need a break from Elden ring Cause I don't have a lot like before, when I was streaming, I had like 10 to 12 hours a week of gaming time. I might have three hours right now, yeah, maybe four, probably four hours, so not including the time I spend with my son. Yeah, but that's. That's not enough for me to invest into shadow of the earth tree okay, I can see that also.

Speaker 1: 1:04:48

It has been quite a long journey of you being through all the different levels of motivation for Elden. Ring including. I don't want to play this. You've told me I'm never going to be Elden Lord when.

Speaker 2: 1:04:59

I'm done, go ahead, you're gonna get there. No, when I beat the game, I, I want you to help me write a book. No, like I don't know what I would call it. I, I, you know, maybe like like a blog post, but somewhere I can like post it and be like a non, maybe a script, and I make a video about elden ring right for youtube. But like, I need help writing the script because I'm not great with that stuff. But I want to write something or make a video talking about my feelings about this game. And you said it perfectly. Like I've done the full circle of this game. Yeah, and there's so many emotions in it. Like I'll still, to this day, stop myself from walking into my office because I'm like you know what. I just don't want to get all stressed out playing the game.

Speaker 1: 1:05:59

Yeah, it can be a very stressful game to play.

Speaker 2: 1:06:03

But then when I'm playing it, I don't even find myself to be stressful anymore. Yeah, you know, because I'm just like all right, I know I'm going to die a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:06:18

I don't even care about the runes and just move on. You know, on the topic of Elden Ring and on the topic of Expedition 33, there's been a little bit of dialogue about the difficulty of Expedition 33 and how some people say it reminds them of Elden Ring. Some people say they're not even the same thing. So stop it. But one thing that I will say that both games have in common, and that's all I'm saying here. Right, they're different games, they're different play styles. For sure they're not the same genre. You know I break down genres in a lot of different things they've written and they're not the same.

Speaker 1: 1:06:48

But one thing that's different is making a mistake with your controller can lead to you being dead in three seconds from that moment, right or less. You know sometimes less, and these games teach you that it's important to take advantage of every chance you get to do something that makes a difference, because you don't know how many of those chances you're going to get. That's a really nice way to look at life too. You don't just quit when one thing doesn't go your way. You keep going. Hopefully, you still believe in yourself, you give yourself the opportunity to succeed, and that's all you can ask yourself moment to moment, day by day, and I learned that mostly from video games, and it's helped me a lot in other areas of life, and so that's why I love games like Elden Ring. That's why I'm falling in love with my new game, expedition 33. And that's why I love MMOs, that's why I love playing with my friends and the times I've gotten to play with you, and that's why this podcast exists ultimately. So I.

Speaker 1: 1:08:03

I think there's a time and place for difficulty well, I had to turn the difficulty down from the expert because my reaction time isn't where it needs to be, but I did try it and I can see the thrill. And someday, marcus, someday, I hope I've learned all the monsters. I need to come back and do that highest one.

Speaker 2: 1:08:29

But I don't know, and that's funny to me because I have zero thrill in playing something at the hardest difficulty, but yet I'm playing Elden Ring.

Speaker 1: 1:08:42

Well, there is no difficulty, and that's right. It's only on hard.

Speaker 2: 1:08:46

Yeah, but I'm going to circle back to wrestling. Okay, what did you think about the Jey Uso-Gunther match?

Speaker 1: 1:09:02

I think it's really weird how they ended it. I'm glad Jey Uso won. You know I'm not a fan of the headlock being the end of a match and even though they reversed their roles, the headlock was the end of the match and I don't know if there's long-term storytelling here like maybe, yeah, maybe gunther tapped out because he got hit by so many spears and Uso splashes that he, his body was just done and he just tapped out quick out of self preservation. Like this is not my night, I'm done with this. And J Uso became world heavyweight champion and that's so fun, that's super fun. So not a fan of the headlock as a move. So that's on me, right? That's not wwe's fault, that's not gunther's fault.

Speaker 2: 1:10:01

Um, but they showed a couple times where as soon as gunther gets put in a submission hold, he taps out in other matches from the past. So I think they were too far apart for that story to be told, that he can't handle being like in a submission himself. I felt as if that match was 100% rushed. I felt like they rushed it Like like they wanted so bad to stay on time that they like okay guys, come on. Let's like okay guys, come on, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. It just didn't feel. I feel like that match would have been so much better if it was played at night.

Speaker 1: 1:10:48

Maybe, but you set the stage for that comment when we did our prep show for WrestleMania. You like the nighttime WrestleMania matches. I think it's neat having one or two matches that are clearly daytime. It's a fun aesthetic to see them outside.

Speaker 2: 1:11:09

I personally hate that. See them outside. I personally hate that. Okay, I want a roof like, and I want it loud from cheering like you can barely hear people cheering. It's so many people and it's so big like it's. I, like, I, I like a more closed in intimate event like the royal rumble in indianapolis was awesome because the roof was closed and it was you. It felt like you were inside, even though there were 60 000 people there 70 000 people there oh yeah, I mean the the baseball field in tampa when I went to the royal rumble.

Speaker 1: 1:11:46

I don't know if it even opens, but it was closed and yeah, oh no, it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 1:11:50

No, it doesn't open yeah, it was.

Speaker 1: 1:11:52

It was closed, it was very loud. Um, very cool experience. So I get what you're saying there. Um, yeah, I mean that match is not what is memorable about this year's wrestlemania to me, but jay uso is a fun wrestler to see and see his growth, see his trajectory. The last five years when I came back to watching wrestling it's been really great and there's a lot of people from WrestleMania that I'm happy for. So you know it's just fun.

Speaker 2: 1:12:27

What else was there? What was the next match after Jey Uso and Gunther oh?

Speaker 1: 1:12:32

man I don't remember.

Speaker 2: 1:12:34

I should have done the prep.

Speaker 1: 1:12:36

I don't think we should review every single match, though All right.

Speaker 2: 1:12:40

Well, the match of the whole weekend for me, other than the Seth Rollins, the Roman.

Speaker 1: 1:12:51

Reigns the CM Punk fight.

Speaker 2: 1:12:52

Other than that, my number two is the Rhea Ripley, Bianca Belair, EO Sky match. Yeah, EO Sky is nasty Like those women showed up.

Speaker 1: 1:13:07

Best match of WrestleMania for me, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:13:10

Yeah, it was. If the Seth Rollins match was number one, the Bianca match was 1.1, right Like it's right. There they worked. Outcome was great. The match itself was amazing. It was the right finish. It's funny to see the crowd turning on bianca belair it's. It's awesome to see that rear. You can see that rear ripley is going to be going after eo sky but they're like have this little partnership right now. It's pretty rad what's happening.

Speaker 1: 1:13:54

Yeah, I agree, I had a lot of fun with that match. You know, I think it's important to include here that we're just talking about this because we're fans and we love it. And even when we are down on a match, overall I still really enjoyed the product. It's because we have emotional reactions and sometimes things are not what you hope to see, but you still keep watching because it's compelling to you.

Speaker 2: 1:14:24

I'm going to relate this to Star Wars, the Old Republic. Ooh, okay, I love that game. Ooh, okay, I love that game and I criticize it because of how much I love it. Sure, the difference between WWE and SWTOR is that WWE has constant new content. So I can hate the John Cena-Travis Scott match, but I know Monday Night Raw is going to explain a little bit of it and I'm going to be able to move on past it and the next thing is going to happen. So there's constant content coming where SWOTOR, you get a bug or something that isn't great and it never gets addressed and it makes people dwell on the negativity because they're not getting relief from that. We're in a WWE match.

Speaker 2: 1:15:27

You can hate that match and hate the outcome and all that, but in a couple of days that you're going to move past that because there's something new to that adds to it and you're like okay, now it's okay I can see that you know, and and I'm not picking on swotor at all when I say all this, I'm not, it's just that that's the only thing that came to mind that kind of binds them together like the force yeah, I'm one with the force I think, and the force is with me.

Speaker 1: 1:16:06

I believe that what we're talking about on the show whether it it's sports entertainment, video games, game genres, bosses that we can or cannot defeat it really is just about looking for content that creates some kind of metaphorical parallel that explains life to us and makes our moments of joy feel relevant for who we are as people, our moments of joy feel relevant for who we are as people. So if you're not down with that, I got three words for you Continue the journey, thank you.